What if the best way to understand education isn't by looking at high school or college — but by spending time in kindergarten? This week, Rod and Jal welcome renowned developmental psychologist and author Susan Engel to discuss her new book, American Kindergarten: Dispatches from the First Year of School. The conversation explores the "promises" these early classrooms make to children, from creating order and community to nurturing curiosity, individuality, and love.

What does true inclusion actually look like in today's classrooms? In this episode, Rod and Jal welcome Dr. Leyton Schnellert to the conversation. Drawing from decades as a classroom teacher and educational leader, Leyton challenges educators to move beyond deficit thinking and instead build classrooms around students' strengths, identities, and aspirations.

"We're making kids get good at what's increasingly irrelevant and crushing out of them the skills and mindsets they'll actually need." In this episode, Rod and Jal sit down with former venture capitalist turned education advocate, Ted Dintersmith, to explore the growing gap between what schools prioritize and what young people actually need to thrive.

What happens when someone who grew up in the Soviet education system helps lead a modern competency-based curriculum transformation? In this episode, Rod and Jal are joined by Latvian educator and learning leader Zane Olina. A central theme of their conversation focuses on bringing the engagement, challenge, and meaningful learning, often found in extracurricular activities, into the formal school day.

What if schools were designed to cultivate agency instead of compliance? In this episode, Rod and Jal welcome back Tyler Thigpen for a deep conversation about self-directed learning, human flourishing, and the hidden lessons traditional schooling teaches students about authority, motivation, and identity. It’s a thoughtful and hopeful conversation about what education could become when we stop asking kids to simply comply — and start helping them become fully human.

This week, Rod and Jal are joined by former Kentucky Commissioner of Education and longtime education leader Jason Glass for a wide-ranging conversation about power, democracy, and what schools are really teaching students. Jason shares his journey from traditional accountability-focused reform work to a deeper belief that the real work of education happens at the human level: in relationships, student experiences, and meaningful learning.

What does it actually mean to be intelligent? This week, Jal, Rod, and Gino sit down with returning guest Amelia Peterson for a fascinating conversation about education, knowledge, why context matters more than most systems acknowledge, and of course, a little AI. Amelia shares insights from her work at the London Interdisciplinary School, where students tackle complex real-world problems through interdisciplinary learning rather than traditional academic silos.

"Listening is one of the bravest things you can do right now.” In this timely and deeply human conversation, Rod and Jal are joined by LaShawn Routé Chatmon and Tom Malarkey of the National Equity Project for a wide-ranging discussion about what it means to lead for equity in 2026. Together, they explore what equity leadership requires in a moment defined by backlash, polarization, and political noise—and why listening may be the key to bridging our divides.

What happens when school stops simulating the real world — and starts participating in it? This week, Rod and Jal are joined by Dov Stucker, to talk about Burlington City & Lake Semester (BCL), an immersive, place-based public school program in Burlington, Vermont that turns the entire city into a classroom. It’s a conversation about civic learning, public trust, and what becomes possible when students stop practicing for life and start participating in it.

Our 80th episode kicks of the start of season five! Rod and Jal are joined by longtime collaborator and global education leader Anthony (Tony) Mackay for a wide-ranging conversation on transformation, artificial intelligence, and what it really means to design learning systems for human flourishing.