Jon and Kory discuss why persuasion is one of the most important, and overlooked, skills in leadership.Getting an idea approved is rarely about delivering the perfect argument in a meeting. It starts earlier: asking better questions, listening closely, understanding what different people need, and finding the stories that make an idea feel relevant rather than imposed.They explore the role of verbal and non-verbal communication, why the meeting is never really just the meeting, and how to build support before a decision is formally on the table. Kory also shares practical lessons from winning over her own board, persuading an organisation to take risks, and turning advocates into people who will sell the idea when you are not in the room.A practical episode for leaders who need to influence without forcing, build alignment without endless consensus, and give their best ideas a genuine chance of happening.LinksThe Storyteller's Secret BookTimestamps00:00 - Start00:56 - Is persuasion one of the secrets to being a successful leader?02:24 - The importance of asking questions05:00 - The art of listening08:09 - Verbal and non verbal communication10:49 - The power of communicating through stories13:43 - The meeting is never actually the meeting17:26 - How Kory sold So Many Dicks to her board20:08 - Pursauding your company to take risks21:17 - Getting advocates to sell your idea26:03 - Identifying your leverage

Jon and Kory discuss the Wiseman’s 15 building blocks of customer obsession: a practical framework for turning customer-first intentions into the way an organisation actually works, exemplified by Dutch Bros.As always, Kory brings the data behind customer-obsessed organisations before the duo discuss why internal politics so often gets in the way, and whether founder-led businesses have a natural advantage when it comes to staying close to the people they serve.From empowering frontline teams to reading every customer complaint, they unpack the behaviours that make customer obsession tangible rather than a line in a values document. They also draw on lessons from Unreasonable Hospitality, challenge the limitations of the golden rule, and consider how leaders can embed a customer-first mindset across the business.LinksFounders Mentality BookUnreasonable Hospitality BookTimestamps00:00 - Start00:40 - Are you really obsessed with your customer?01:59 - The data behind customer obsessed organisations03:08 - Why internal politics gets in the way of the customer05:15 - Are founder-led companies more customer led?06:42 - The Wiseman’s building blocks08:47 - Jon’s favourite customer first principles10:25 - Example of empowering the front lines13:11 - Kory’s favourite customer first principle14:20 - Talking through all the Wiseman building blocks17:13 - Why Kory reads all of e.l.f.’s customer complaints19:13 - Customer first lessons from Unreasonable Hospitality23:48 - Why Kory doesn’t like the golden rule24:45 - How to embed these principles into your organisation

Jon and Kory discuss how small, consistent improvements can transform team performance 38x in just 1 year. Using lessons from elite cycling and Team Sky’s famously obsessive approach to marginal gains, they explore why high-performing teams rarely improve through one dramatic intervention. Instead, progress comes from making incremental improvements that compound over time.LinksThe Earned Life, Marshall Goldsmith - bookTimestamps00:00 - Start00:24 - Why Jon always wears black02:45 - The compounding power of incremental gains05:16 - Lessons from high performance sport06:48 - The insane 1% improvements Team Sky made to win the Tour De France11:21 - Applying cycling lessons to leadership13:52 - Why you need to ask for feedback16:27 - Just start17:10 - How to see if you’ve actually made progress20:28 - The paradoxical data on incremental progress

Jon and Kory discuss why making good decisions is one of the hardest – and most important – parts of leadership, and share the frameworks they use to make better choices when the answer isn't obvious.From knowing when to trust the data and when to follow your gut, to de-risking big decisions and playing “angel's advocate”, they explore practical ways to challenge your own thinking. They unpack Solomon's paradox, the 10:10:10 rule, automatic negative thoughts and why sometimes the smartest thing you can do is ask someone else for help.They also explore what happens when you stop actively thinking about a problem, some surprisingly useful Japanese wisdom, and one particularly simple test: would you make the same decision drunk?Whether you're facing a huge strategic choice or simply stuck overthinking, these are 9 tools to help you make decisions with greater clarity and confidence.LinksG.O.A.T. Wisdom BookGreg Hahn on Uncensored CMOThe Brain at Rest Book (why your brain can make good decisions when you're not thinking)Timestamps00:00 - Start00:26 - Why Jon looks “savagely tanned”01:19 - Why decision making is hard04:16 - When you need to trust the data or your gut06:43 - How to make a decision07:29 - How to de risk a decision09:30 - Try playing “angel’s advocate”10:50 - Solomon’s paradox when making a decision11:51 - Squash the ants (automatic negative thoughts)12:23 - The 10:10:10 rule14:36 - Ask for help15:22 - Make space for your default mode network17:06 - Would you make the same decision drunk?17:47 - Japanese wisdom for decision making20:29 - The stats on why this is important

Today Kory shares the lessons from taking her leadership team offsite and deliberately putting them into an unfamiliar environment - a horse ranch. Jon and Kory explore why pattern disruption can help teams break old habits, the difference between a group of strong individual contributors and a genuinely connected team, and why getting outside your comfort zone can reveal how you really work together.They also discuss the language of connection, learning to ask for help, why pressure isn't always the answer, and how to turn an offsite from a memorable experience into lasting behavioural change. Because however busy your team feels, sometimes stepping away from the work is exactly what helps you do the work better.LinksG.O.A.T. Wisdom BookEQ2 Horse Ranch Leadership OffsiteTimestamps00:00 - Start00:37 - Why Kory takes her team offsite03:01 - Why you need to transform your team04:14 - The power of pattern disruption07:13 - Individual contributors vs working as a team11:20 - Going out of your comfort zone13:40 - The language of connection18:21 - Learning how to ask for help23:44 - The power is not in the pressure, it’s in the release25:40 - How Kory is implementing the lessons in the team27:03 - You’re too busy to not do this

Today, Jon and Kory open up their personal leadership toolbox, sharing the mental models and frameworks they rely on to make better decisions, communicate more effectively, and build high-performing teams.From understanding your audience before creating content to aligning teams around a clear vision, raising the bar through belief and repetition, and creating dedicated thinking time, these are the practical tools that have shaped their careers. They also discuss why spending time with people smarter than you is one of the fastest ways to grow, and finish with the one framework that underpins everything else.Timestamps00:00 - Start01:11 - Tools for your toolbox (in work and life)01:57 - Framework 1: A.B.C. (Audience Before Content)07:43 - Framework 2: A.B.C. (Always Be Curious)09:14 - Framework 3: V.A.E. (Vision, Alignment, Execution)13:43 - Framework 4: Raising the B.A.R. (Belief, Attention, Repetition)18:08 - Bonus tool: spend time with people smarter than you18:36 - Framework 5: 3, 5, 7, 922:31 - Framework 6: T Time!26:43 - The framework to rule all frameworks

Today Jon and Kory explore the leadership habits that keep successful organisations moving forward. Drawing on research, personal experience and examples from some of the world's best businesses, they discuss why the strongest leaders surround themselves with people who will tell them the truth, stay relentlessly close to their customers, and never shy away from difficult conversations.Timestamps00:00 - Start00:56 - How to stay grounded when you’re successful02:52 - Does success drive complacency?04:14 - What the data says about successful companies06:07 - You need people that are prepared to tell you the truth09:25 - Why you need to have the tough conversations12:45 - Spend time with your customer15:07 - The power of saying no17:42 - Working with the right people23:06 - Define your organisation25:22 - Play to win

For decades, marketers have relied on the traditional 4 Ps: Product, Price, Place and Promotion. But as the role of the CMO has evolved, so too have the skills needed to succeed as leaders.Today, Jon and Kory introduce a new framework for modern marketing leadership, inspired by research Jon conducted with TikTok. Rather than focusing on the marketing mix, these five Ps focus on what today's leaders need to excel inside their organisations: People, Planning, Persuasion and Performance. (Plus a bonus P that isn't a P - Storytelling.)Timestamps00:00 - Start00:48 - A new set of marketing Ps04:38 - P1 - People08:05 - P2 - Planning14:57 - P3 - Persuasion23:52 - P4 - Performance28:55 - P5 - Storytelling

Launching a brand is one of the hardest things you can do. Today, Jon and Kory break down the principles they've learned from building brands, products and podcasts from the ground up.They explore the three ingredients every successful launch needs: a crystal-clear value proposition, surrounding yourself with exceptional people, and the persistence to keep going when progress feels slow. Along the way, they discuss why we're often too close to our own ideas, how constraints can become a competitive advantage, and why the best launches rarely happen by accident.Timestamps00:00 - Start00:48 - How hard is it to build a brand from scratch?02:52 - The 3 things that need to be true for a succesful launch03:24 - Having a clear value prop10:55 - Are we too close to our own proposition?15:02 - Surround yourself with greatness20:50 - Persistence23:59 - The power of constraint

Fresh from Jon Evans' Cannes Lions talk, this episode explores why surprise is one of the most powerful tools in leadership. Drawing on behavioural science, neuroscience and real-world campaigns, Jon and Kory unpack how unexpected moments capture attention, create stronger memories and help brands stand out in an increasingly predictable world.Putting their marketing hat on, they look at examples such as Tubi's headline-grabbing Super Bowl campaign and e.l.f.'s unconventional product launch strategy. Along the way, they explain the science of Reward Prediction Error, discuss how to sell bold ideas inside large organisations, and reveal why partnerships can become a powerful source of unexpected creativity.Watch the new e.l.f. haircare advert:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uk2KmRlx7eATimestamps00:00 - Start01:38 - The origin story of Uncensored CMO04:03 - Why surprise is the antidote to dull05:23 - The data behind the power of surprise07:52 - Tubi’s example of using the power of surprise09:58 - Understanding Reward Prediction Error13:09 - Surprising the judges at Cannes Lions15:45 - Selling big ideas into the boardroom17:47 - e.l.f.’s surprising approach to their new hair product launch20:29 - The power of partnerships to be surprising22:23 - Baking surprise into your culture25:41 - Why you need to keep delivering new surprises