Innovation is often talked about as breakthroughs and big ideas – but what actually makes it work in public services? In this episode of The Next 20, Antonio is joined by Jonathan Chappell, Senior Partner at The PSC, to explore how innovation really happens in healthcare. From the power of data and collaboration to the structures that help new ideas scale, they reflect on the ingredients that turn discovery into real-world impact – and what the next 20 years of clinical innovation could hold.