Welcome to the New Year everyone! And a new season of the RT Dialogue with Lance Ahl and Rhett Smith. We are glad you have joined us. [FYI: There were some internet connection issues in this episode, but it was a great conversation.]We kick off the new season with Restoration Therapist Hatty Lee. Hatty is the founder of Oak and Stone Therapy which has practices in Pasadena and Los Angeles. She is also the co-author of the beautiful Indwell Guide, which is an "8-step mental health resource designed to empower individuals through visual storytelling, education, and practical tools."In this episode we spend time learning from Hatty where RT Therapists often get stuck in the therapeutic process. Here wide ranging experience as a therapist, supervisor, practice owner, gives her unique insight into some of the ways therapists get stuck in the practice of RT. We also end the episode with some brief thoughts on why she loves doing intensives so much.

Welcome to Episode 50 of the RT Dialogue Podcast!We want to give a huge THANK YOU to all of you who have listened this year.We launched this podcast on February 16, 2025 with the hopes of connecting the RT community. We wanted to bring on different people within the community who were practicing RT, as well as dive deeper into the model. It's been a fun adventure for us, and we are eager to start into Season 2 in January 2026.We spent some time in this last episode going over some fun numbers from our podcast this year, and talking about our hopes for Season 2, as well as our dreams for the RT community as we move into the new year. So a big THANK YOU again for tuning in!Here are some fun numbers for our small podcast (as of Dec. 20, 2025):Spotify/Apple4,606 downloads of the podcast740 listening hours89 followers303 different unique listeners52.3% female; 43% male; 4.7% not identified 8 countries listeningEpisode 4 with Terry and Sharon most listened to episode of the year. Top 10% podcast globally for most viewed videos (if you didn't know already -- you can view the video episode on Spotify as well)Please subscribe to our Spotify or Apple YouTube1,700 views374.7 viewing hours51 subscribersEpisode 7 with Ron Deal was most viewed episode of the year. Please subscribe to our YouTubeSubstack19,000 views156 subscribers22 different states are subscribed4 countries subscribed (US, Austria, Australia, Mexico)Episode 18 with Bisola Adediji was BY FAR the most viewed and shared episode of the year....1,238 different emails opened her episode!Please subscribe to our Substack -- which also now has an updated calendar page and other ways to get involved. When we started this podcast we weren't sure who would listen. But we were going to do it anyways, whether anyone listened or not, because we enjoy chatting with each other, with those in the RT community -- and we just love chatting about RT. But it's awesome that between all our channels, they were viewed over 25,000 times in the last 10 months. So THANK YOU.See you in 2026.Lance, Rhett and RO

Welcome to Episode 49 of the RT Dialogue. As we near the end of the year we wanted to take an episode to reflect on a few of the books that we find ourselves referencing a lot in therapy over the years. Honestly, we could have spent hours on this episode and covered dozens and dozens of books, over so many topics. So maybe in future podcasts we will pause and talk about other books that are important to our work. We also realize as we got more into the conversation that our book selection doesn't reflect a very wide diversity of authors in terms of gender, ethnicity, etc. -- just something we wanted to acknowledge. I know we have been reading widely in our personal lives, but it's not always reflected in the books that we find ourselves referencing consistently.What are the 3-5 books that you find yourself continually referencing in therapy with clients?P.S. On this latest episode I totally botched a reference in Parker Palmer's book Let Your Life Speak, where he talks about his depression. Here is the actual quote:“After hours of careful listening, my therapist offered an image that helped me eventually reclaim my life. ‘You seem to look upon depression as the hand of an enemy trying to crush you,’ he said. ‘Do you think you could see it instead as the hand of a friend, pressing you down to the ground on which it is safe to stand?’Amid the assaults I was suffering, the suggestion that depression was my friend seemed impossibly romantic, even insulting. But something in me knew that down, down to the ground, was the direction of wholeness, thus allowing that image to begin its slow work of healing me.I started to understand that I had been living an ungrounded life, living at an altitude that was inherently unsafe. The problem with living at high altitude is simple: when we slip, as we always do, we have a long, long way to fall, and the landing may well kill us. The grace of being pressed down to the ground is also simple: when we slip and fall, it is usually not fatal, and we can get back up.” (pp. 66)Books Mentioned in the EpisodeIn the Name of Jesus: Reflections on Christian Leadership by Henri NouwenLet Your Life Speak: Listening for the Voice of Vocation by Parker PalmerThe Silence of Adam: Becoming Men in a World of Chaos by Larry CrabbA Grief Observed by C. S. LewisBreathing Under Water: Spirituality and the Twelve Steps by Richard RohrAbba's Child: The Cry of the Heart for Intimate Belonging by Brennan ManningMan's Search for Meaning by Viktor E. FranklLiving the Spiritually Balanced Life: Acquiring the Virtues You Admire in Others by Ray AndersonDaring Greatly: How the Courage to Be Vulnerable Transforms the Way We Live, Love, Parent and Lead by Brene BrownFeminist Prayers for My Daughter: Powerful Petitions for Every Stage of Life by Shannon K. EvansAgainst the Machine: On the Unmaking of Humanity by Paul KingsnorthThe Salt Stones: The Seasons of a Shepherd's Life by Helen WhybrowThe Way of Excellence: A Guide to True Greatness and Deep Satisfaction in a Chaotic World by Brad StulbergZen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance: An Inquire into Values by Robert PirsigStrong Ground: The Lessons of Daring Leadership, The Tenacity of Paradox, and the Wisdom of the Human Spirit by Brene BrownWhy We Love Baseball: A History in 50 Moments by Joe Posnanski

Welcome to Episode 48 of the RT Dialogue.In this episode we had the privilege of talking with Dr. Erik Salwen who is a Level II RT Therapist and who is also Level I RT Trainer. He is the Associate Professor of Counseling Ministries at Dallas Theological Seminary and is in practice at College Station Christian Counseling in College Station, TX. Erik is passionate about the "theology of RT" and we discussed at length the role of integration in the Restoration Therapy model -- as well as starting a conversation around the topic of forgiveness (we will have to pick back up on this rich conversation next year on the podcast)Mentioned in the EpisodeDr. Scott Horrell John PiperDeborah van Deusen HunsingerTheology and Pastoral Counseling: A New Interdisciplinary Approach by Deborah van Deusen HunsingerChrist Plays in Ten Thousand Places: A Conversation in Spiritual Theology by Eugene PetersonOhana Fest

Welcome to Episode 47 of the RT Dialogue Podcast. As we wind down towards the end of the 2025 year we wanted to chat briefly about a question we both receive quite a bit -- which is how to build a referral network as a therapist? Rhett has been in his private practice for 15 years while Lance is on year 10. So we have some thoughts and ideas that have been helpful for us that we want to share. But we plan to spend some time in 2026 having some people on to talk about the nuts and bolts of building a healthy practice, but today we just wanted to touch briefly on this topic of network building. We would love to hear from you. Drop a comment below and let us know some things you have done to build a healthy referral network, or groups of people that you feel are vital for therapists to connect with in the process of building the network.

Welcome to Episode 46 of the RT Dialogue Podcast. We are so thankful that you have joined us on this journey, and if you like what you hear we encourage you to do us a favor. You can: recommend the episode to othersleave a review for us on Spotify or Apple Podcasts (good reviews help others find it)subscribe to the RT Dialogue Substack for the podcast and other pertinent information in the Restoration Therapy community. We have a great episode for you with our special guest, Rob Hayes St. Clair. Rob came into RT not by the typical route you have heard from many of our previous guests (i.e. graduate school, training, etc.), but through an encounter in therapy. In this episode he shares his life changing experience from working on the JH Ranch in Northern California, to encountering RT as a client, and the healing journey that led he and his wife Edith on. (Check out ⁠JH Aotearoa⁠)Part of his mission is to bring the power of Restoration Therapy to others, and one of those ways is through the new Parent from Peace journal. This journal is so beautiful and you can tell that it is truly a labor of love born out of personal transformation. Please go check it out and place your order. We love it and want to support the good work of those in the community. Mentioned in the EpisodeThe Life Changing Skill of Emotional Regulation -- Modern Wisdom podcast with special guest Mark BrackettFamilies and Faith: How Religion is Passed Down across Generations by Vern Bengtson, Norealla Putney and Susan Harris The Mindful Marriage: Create Your Best Relationship Through Understanding and Managing Yourself by Ron and Nan Deal Why Your Kids Push Back -- And How to Fix It with Michael Cox and Rob Hayes St. ClairRelate Strong

Welcome to Episode 45 of the RT Dialogue Podcast. This was a really fun episode, and if you are able to – we recommend you watch the video version if possible (i.e. props involved).In this episode we spent time with Nancy Frigaard, Jennifer Smith, and Lorenzo Cantoja.Nancy is doing a ton of amazing work, and among that, she is owner/clinical director at Freedom Family Counseling in Arizona (serving two locations in the Phoenix area). She is also the author of A Playful Approach to Restoration Therapy, and is President of the newly formed Asher Graduate School of Counseling. Jennifer is an LAMFT on staff at Freedom Family Counseling and may be most well known for her dancing in the From Pain to Peace (The 4 Steps Song) – you have to check out this catchy tune.Lorenzo is an LAMFT on staff at Freedom Family Counseling and dove deep with us into their new Play Strong Warriors program.  The three of them (and I would imagine all of the staff atFreedom Family Counseling), bring a really beautiful energy to the work of Restoration Therapy. I love how they are serving their community and partnering with many other organizations to bring restoration and healing. In this episode we focused on working with children, and discussed some of the innovative programs they are using Restoration Therapy in. We definitely plan to have them back on in the new year to do multiple episodes on interventions, as well as to talk about the new graduate school that Nancy and others are launching in the Phoenix, AZ area.

We were really excited to have Sharon Hargrave and Dee Dee Mayer on Episode 44 of the RT Dialogue. Sharon as many of you already know, is the founder of Relate Strong, and Dee Dee Mayer is the Senior Director of The Boone Center at Pepperdine University -- this is just to name a couple of things these amazing women are currently involved in, or have contributed to. On this episode we wanted to have them both on to discuss navigating relationships during the holidays. Both bring a wealth of knowledge and personal experience to this topic, and we wish we had more time to record a longer episode...we will definitely be having them back on.But in a culture that seems to be keen on cutting off relationships, and a pop psychology culture permeated in social media, there is a lot of emphasis on labeling, boundaries, self-care, etc, rather than a pathway to restoration. We wanted to address this head on in this episode. We hope you enjoy the conversation, and stay tuned for another episode with these two in the near future. Mentioned in the Episode Home for Thanksgiving: 7 Common Concerns from Students and How Families Can Prepare for a Great Holiday -- this was the article Rhett mentioned in the episode that Gonzaga sent home to parents.Check out our episode on the RT Dialogue Substack for access to the Family Estrangement handout that we discussed.

Welcome to Episode 43 of the RT Dialogue. In this episode we wanted to spend some time talking about the Core Concepts of Restoration Therapy. A couple of weeks ago we were hanging out with the Hargraves and some other members of the RT Community, and Terry put up a slide listing the core concepts:Emotional Regulation -- Self Versus CoHuman Identity and SafetyPain Chart, Peace ChartPain Cycle -- Primary Emotion to Reactive EmotionPeace Cycle -- Primary Emotion to Choice Actions/VirtueFour-Steps -- recapitulation of old self/new selfForgiveness-Four Station of Insight, Understanding, Giving Opportunity for Compensation, Overt ForgivingWhat is not on this list, but Terry mentioned as probably becoming a part of it -- the Stop, Turn, Slow intervention we are refining. And Lance wondered on the podcast if "usness" would be considered a core concept (we will have to ask Terry about that). One of the things that makes RT unique as well, is that it is a totally integratable model. We had a lot to discuss this episode, and never got to the Forgiveness concept, which we are saving for a later episode in a few weeks. But when you think about what makes RT, RT -- it's these core concepts. If you aren't doing these core concepts in your practice, then you aren't doing RT. Hope you enjoy the episode.

Welcome to Episode 42 of the RT Dialogue. We had a great time and a deep and meaningful conversation with our guest Ryan Forsell on this latest episode. Ryan is a Fuller Theological Seminary graduate (2017), Level II RT trained therapist, and has a private-group practice in Sierra Madre and online. He is deeply passionate about men's work, and integrating outdoor wilderness experiences working with men. I (Rhett) was introduced to Ryan like 15-16 years ago through his youth pastor who is a friend of mine, and it's been cool to see his journey over all these years. But for this episode we decided to do something different after the episode was recorded -- and that was record a short message prior to the episode. We had used the word disclaimer in a private conversation, but it's not really even a disclaimer, because there is nothing to deny of taking responsibility for. But it's more of a notice ahead of listening. This was the first episode we waded into territory that is controversial in some therapeutic communities, and accepted in others -- the use of psychedelics in therapy. So we just wanted to give listeners notice about it ahead of time. All that being said, our conversation was deep and meaningful and we look forward to having Ryan back on. And we hope to be a podcast that can both talk about the core tenets of Restoration Therapy -- and what makes RT, RT, in our theory and practice -- praxis. And we also want to thoughtfully engage with people practicing therapy in different ways and who are outside the RT community. We got both in this episode. There are lots of topics that therapists are often afraid to engage in, even in our own rooms -- politics, sexuality, faith, psychedelics -- just to name a few. And if there is anything we have learned from being a part of the RT community, it is that we want to be safe and loving people to all those we encounter. Thanks for trusting us with these conversations and we know that we have many exciting episodes ahead. Mentioned in the EpisodeThe Soul's Code: In Search of Character and Calling by James HillmanMichael MeadeRobert BlyRoy BaumeisterThe Red Book by Carl JungPsychedelics and the Soul: A Mythic Guide to Psychedelic Healing, Depth Psychology and Cultural Repair by Simon YuglerBreathing Under Water: Spirituality and the Twelve Steps by Richard RohrDeep Water Men