We explore inflation, retail investors, precious metals, and Bitcoin. We’re joined by Luke Gromen, Founder of The Forest for the Trees. We cover Luke’s perspectives on inflation, investing in alternative assets, and interpreting investment data. “My sense of where we are is... we're basically in the first bursting global sovereign debt bubble in 100 years.” – Luke Gromen EPISODE GUIDE (LINKS, QUOTES, NOTES, AND BOOKS MENTIONED) https://www.danielscrivner.com/notes/perspectives-data-analysis-inflation-fftt-luke-gromen-ig-show-notes FULL TEXT TRANSCRIPT https://www.danielscrivner.com/notes/perspectives-data-analysis-inflation-fftt-luke-gromen-ig-transcript  CHAPTERS This episode is our definitive guide to inflation, retail investors, precious metals, and Bitcoin. In it we cover: 00:00:00 – Introduction 00:02:02 – Luke's experience as an analyst at investment research firms 00:09:37 – Interpreting and presenting investment data 00:12:05 – How Luke started The Forest for the Trees 00:17:22 – Luke's take on the current financial climate 00:20:34 – The importance of owning assets in today's climate 00:23:58 – Perspectives on inflation 00:41:15 – Investing in alternative assets 00:50:54 – Gold and Bitcoin 00:54:53 – Recommended books and resources ABOUT THE FOREST FOR THE TREES Luke Gromen publishes a weekly macro research report read by institutional and individual investors alike, called Tree Rings. And he's also the author of Mr. X Interviews volume one and two. After working as an analyst for 20 plus years, Luke founded the Forest for The Trees in 2014. Luke is known as one of today's best macroeconomic thinkers. His view is that as data becomes increasingly commoditized, free thinking becomes priceless. And that's exactly why I wanted to have him on the show. After an incredibly tumultuous 2021, I wanted to sit down with Luke to get his thoughts on the last year, the road ahead, and some of the toughest challenges we're facing today, from a multi decade high in inflation to shifts in how we collectively think about money.  💌 FREE NEWSLETTER https://www.outlieracademy.com/newsletter 🎙 LISTEN ON iTunes: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/outlier-academy/id1523851182 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/58edVNgqaPNaCSGSxM6pef?si=88f37a5d20434775 Overcast: https://overcast.fm/itunes1523851182 ABOUT OUTLIER ACADEMY Learn timeless lessons on work and life from iconic founders, world-renown investors, and bestselling authors. Outlier Academy is the forever school for those chasing greatness. Past guests include Gokul Rajaram of DoorDash, Scott Belsky of Benchmark and Adobe, Joey Krug of Pantera Capital, Mark Sisson of Primal Kitchen, Luke Gromen of The Forest for the Trees, and Brian Scudamore of 1-800-GOT-JUNK. Website: https://www.outlieracademy.com Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/outlieracademy ABOUT DANIEL SCRIVNER Outlier Academy is hosted by Daniel Scrivner. Over the last 15 years, Daniel has led design teams at Square and Apple, turned around a $3M+ ARR SaaS business, and invested in more than 100 companies. He launched Outlier Academy in 2020 to learn from the world’s best founders, investors, authors, and peak performance experts. Website: https://www.danielscrivner.com Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/danielscrivner

We deconstruct Luke Gromen's peak performance playbook—from his favorite book to the tiny habit that's had the biggest impact on his life. Luke Gromen is the CEO and Founder of The Forest for the Trees. We cover cognitive dissonance in today’s economy and the benefits of early morning writing. “The ability to make the data useful, to interpret the data, to make music out of the data, if you will, I think you're seeing that dynamic across a lot of different sectors and in the economy.” – Luke Gromen EPISODE GUIDE (LINKS, QUOTES, NOTES, AND BOOKS MENTIONED) https://www.danielscrivner.com/notes/fftt-luke-gromen-20mp-show-notes  FULL TEXT TRANSCRIPT https://www.danielscrivner.com/notes/fftt-luke-gromen-20mp-transcript  CHAPTERS In this episode, we deconstruct Luke Gromen's peak performance playbook—from his favorite book to the tiny habit that's had the biggest impact on his life. In it we cover: 00:00:00 – Introduction 00:01:44 – The cognitive dissonance in today’s economy and connecting the dots 00:04:07 – Moving too quickly to the second derivative 00:05:35 – Daily walks and early morning writing 00:10:30 – Learning from Grant Williams and Kiril Sokoloff 00:12:02 – Architecture school and f*ck you money ABOUT LUKE GROMEN Luke Gromen is the CEO and Founder of the Forest for the Trees. Luke publishes a weekly macro research report called Tree Rings, and he's the author of the world renowned Mr. X Interviews Volume 1 and 2. After working as an analyst for 20 plus years, Luke founded the Forest for the Trees in 2014. Luke's Gromen as one of today's best macroeconomic thinkers. His view, which I love, is that as data increasingly becomes commoditized, free thinking becomes priceless. And he's a regular guest on real vision and has been published in a number of newspapers, including the financial times. As someone who's followed Luke's work for years, it was a thrill to finally have him on the show. 💌 FREE NEWSLETTER https://www.outlieracademy.com/newsletter 🎙 LISTEN ON iTunes: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/outlier-academy/id1523851182 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/58edVNgqaPNaCSGSxM6pef?si=88f37a5d20434775 Overcast: https://overcast.fm/itunes1523851182 ABOUT OUTLIER ACADEMY Learn timeless lessons on work and life from iconic founders, world-renown investors, and bestselling authors. Outlier Academy is the forever school for those chasing greatness. Past guests include Gokul Rajaram of DoorDash, Scott Belsky of Benchmark and Adobe, Joey Krug of Pantera Capital, Mark Sisson of Primal Kitchen, Luke Gromen of The Forest for the Trees, and Brian Scudamore of 1-800-GOT-JUNK. Website: https://www.outlieracademy.com Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/outlieracademy ABOUT DANIEL SCRIVNER Outlier Academy is hosted by Daniel Scrivner. Over the last 15 years, Daniel has led design teams at Square and Apple, turned around a $3M+ ARR SaaS business, and invested in more than 100 companies. He launched Outlier Academy in 2020 to learn from the world’s best founders, investors, authors, and peak performance experts. Website: https://www.danielscrivner.com Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/danielscrivner

We explore why and how to invest in gold. We’re joined by Simon Mikhailovich, Co-Founder of The Bullion Reserve. We cover cycles of financial euphoria, the three ways to get out of debt, and whether people should invest in gold ETFs. “The most important thing is that technology evolves, but people don't. That's the biggest lesson of history—humans don't change.” – Simon Mikhailovich EPISODE GUIDE (LINKS, QUOTES, NOTES, AND BOOKS MENTIONED) https://www.danielscrivner.com/notes/simon-mikhailovich-outliers-show-notes  FULL TEXT TRANSCRIPT https://www.danielscrivner.com/notes/simon-mikhailovich-outliers-transcript  CHAPTERS This episode is our definitive guide to why and how to invest in gold. In it we cover: (00:00:00) – Introduction (00:01:32) – Simon’s thoughts on gold’s role in the current financial market (00:08:37) – Why gold is important at this moment in time (00:15:48) – Cycles of financial euphoria (00:20:33) – The three ways to get out of debt (00:26:31) – Why holding physical gold is different and better than savings in other forms (00:32:12) – Gold is the ultimate insurance for bad financial outcomes (00:38:42) – Gold vs. other precious metals, and how gold is nature’s Bitcoin (00:46:42) – Gold has no impairment risk or counterparty risk, and making money vs. preserving wealth (00:59:01) – How Simon has maintained an outlier point of view over time ABOUT THE BULLION RESERVE The Bullion Reserve enables investors to hold physical gold in secure locations all around the world.  💌 FREE NEWSLETTER https://www.outlieracademy.com/newsletter 🎙 LISTEN ON iTunes: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/outlier-academy/id1523851182 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/58edVNgqaPNaCSGSxM6pef?si=88f37a5d20434775 Overcast: https://overcast.fm/itunes1523851182 ABOUT OUTLIER ACADEMY Learn timeless lessons on work and life from iconic founders, world-renown investors, and bestselling authors. Outlier Academy is the forever school for those chasing greatness. Past guests include Gokul Rajaram of DoorDash, Scott Belsky of Benchmark and Adobe, Joey Krug of Pantera Capital, Mark Sisson of Primal Kitchen, Luke Gromen of The Forest for the Trees, and Brian Scudamore of 1-800-GOT-JUNK. Website: https://www.outlieracademy.com Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/outlieracademy ABOUT DANIEL SCRIVNER Outlier Academy is hosted by Daniel Scrivner. Over the last 15 years, Daniel has led design teams at Square and Apple, turned around a $3M+ ARR SaaS business, and invested in more than 100 companies. He launched Outlier Academy in 2020 to learn from the world’s best founders, investors, authors, and peak performance experts. Website: https://www.danielscrivner.com Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/danielscrivner

We explore becoming a better writer. We’re joined by Verlyn Klinkenborg, author and Yale professor. We cover learning from farm life and work, finding rhythm in writing, and debunking writing cliches.  “So what I do now is essentially help students escape from their education. That's my enterprise every year. And it's always fun, because they escape quite readily. They all know that what they're making in their classes is an artificial product that doesn't actually have any particular interest for anyone except them.” – Verlyn Klinkenborg  EPISODE GUIDE (LINKS, QUOTES, NOTES, AND BOOKS MENTIONED) https://www.danielscrivner.com/notes/verlyn-klinkenborg-outliers-show-notes  FULL TEXT TRANSCRIPT https://www.danielscrivner.com/notes/verlyn-klinkenborg-outliers-transcript  CHAPTERS This episode is our definitive guide to becoming a better writer. In it we cover: (00:00:00) – Introduction (00:01:54) – Rural life and the “home place” (00:04:50) – Raising animals and eating meat (00:11:07) – Learnings from farm life and work (00:15:35) – Verlyn’s reading habits (00:28:40) – Verlyn’s book Several Short Sentences About Writing (00:34:49) – What is academic prose? (00:40:08) – Why people should use shorter sentences in writing (00:44:43) – Finding rhythm in writing (00:48:49) – Self authorization and noticing the world around you (00:55:26) – Writing cliches that are untrue (01:06:43) – Writing is rooted in experience more than language ABOUT SEVERAL SHORT SENTENCES ABOUT WRITING Verlyn Klinkenborg teaches creative writing at Yale University, and was a member of the editorial board of The New York Times for 16 years. His work has been featured in The New Yorker, Harper’s Magazine, Esquire, and National Geographic, and he has authored several books, including Several Short Sentences About Writing. This book aims to debunk general cliches about writing and creativity and remove obstacles keeping us from clear self-expression. 💌 FREE NEWSLETTER https://www.outlieracademy.com/newsletter 🎙 LISTEN ON iTunes: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/outlier-academy/id1523851182 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/58edVNgqaPNaCSGSxM6pef?si=88f37a5d20434775 Overcast: https://overcast.fm/itunes1523851182 ABOUT OUTLIER ACADEMY Learn timeless lessons on work and life from iconic founders, world-renown investors, and bestselling authors. Outlier Academy is the forever school for those chasing greatness. Past guests include Gokul Rajaram of DoorDash, Scott Belsky of Benchmark and Adobe, Joey Krug of Pantera Capital, Mark Sisson of Primal Kitchen, Luke Gromen of The Forest for the Trees, and Brian Scudamore of 1-800-GOT-JUNK. Website: https://www.outlieracademy.com Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/outlieracademy ABOUT DANIEL SCRIVNER Outlier Academy is hosted by Daniel Scrivner. Over the last 15 years, Daniel has led design teams at Square and Apple, turned around a $3M+ ARR SaaS business, and invested in more than 100 companies. He launched Outlier Academy in 2020 to learn from the world’s best founders, investors, authors, and peak performance experts. Website: https://www.danielscrivner.com Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/danielscrivner

We explore investing in buy-and-build compounders in public markets. We’re joined by Dan Roller, Founder and CIO of Maran Capital. We cover how building investment knowledge is like training for the Ironman, the value vs. growth debate, and investing in SPACs. “What you need to do, I think, is constantly update your thesis as you go, which can allow for longer holding periods, because things do change. And at the same time, I go into investments with a multi-year horizon—but my thesis might be disproven fairly quickly.” – Dan Roller EPISODE GUIDE (LINKS, QUOTES, NOTES, AND BOOKS MENTIONED) https://www.danielscrivner.com/notes/dan-roller-outliers-show-notes  FULL TEXT TRANSCRIPT https://www.danielscrivner.com/notes/dan-roller-outliers-transcript  CHAPTERS This episode is our definitive guide to investing in buy-and-build compounders in public markets. In it we cover: (00:00:00) – Introduction (00:01:50) – MOI Global and Dan’s start in the investment world (00:11:20) – The formation of Maran Capital (00:14:59) – Choosing your hunting ground and creating structural advantages  (00:21:21) – Researching and choosing companies to invest in (00:28:27) – How building investment knowledge is like training for the Ironman (00:32:17) – Examples and basics of buy-and-build companies (00:41:04) – How buy-and-build can go wrong (00:51:40) – The value vs. growth debate (00:54:57) – Investing in SPACs (00:58:06) – Thesis drift and mental models (01:02:21) – Resources for learning about investing ABOUT MARAN CAPITAL Dan Roller is Founder and CIO of Maran Capital Management, a boutique, values-driven investment manager that I've been following intently for the last few years. I love the way that Dan sees the world, and I never miss reading one of his investor letters. In this episode, we go deep on how becoming a better investor is similar to training for an Ironman competition, why Dan focuses on what he calls buy and build companies and some of his favorite historic and recent examples there, his approach to investing in special situations and what defines a good or bad opportunity. I get his thoughts on SPACs and why he sees some interesting opportunities in the world today. Dan is a remarkable investor. Before he founded Maran Capital management in 2015, he worked as an analyst for over a decade at firms like Credit Suisse First Boston, Impala Asset Management, Avesta Capital Advisors, and Scopus Asset Management. 💌 FREE NEWSLETTER https://www.outlieracademy.com/newsletter 🎙 LISTEN ON iTunes: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/outlier-academy/id1523851182 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/58edVNgqaPNaCSGSxM6pef?si=88f37a5d20434775 Overcast: https://overcast.fm/itunes1523851182 ABOUT OUTLIER ACADEMY Learn timeless lessons on work and life from iconic founders, world-renown investors, and bestselling authors. Outlier Academy is the forever school for those chasing greatness. Past guests include Gokul Rajaram of DoorDash, Scott Belsky of Benchmark and Adobe, Joey Krug of Pantera Capital, Mark Sisson of Primal Kitchen, Luke Gromen of The Forest for the Trees, and Brian Scudamore of 1-800-GOT-JUNK. Website: https://www.outlieracademy.com Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/outlieracademy ABOUT DANIEL SCRIVNER Outlier Academy is hosted by Daniel Scrivner. Over the last 15 years, Daniel has led design teams at Square and Apple, turned around a $3M+ ARR SaaS business, and invested in more than 100 companies. He launched Outlier Academy in 2020 to learn from the world’s best founders, investors, authors, and peak performance experts. Website: https://www.danielscrivner.com Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/danielscrivner

We explore the world’s least sexy $500M business. We’re joined by Carey Smith, Founder of Big Ass Fans. We cover the importance of humor in business, receiving and listening to feedback, and Carey’s investment philosophy with Unorthodox Ventures. “I think in some ways it's trite, but you really do learn an awful lot from failures. And the other thing you get from a failure—or certainly I did—was the fear of completely wasting my life. That was a much greater fear—to imagine that you wouldn't accomplish much of anything was just more than I could bear and what it moved me to was looking for other opportunities.” – J. Carey Smith EPISODE GUIDE (LINKS, QUOTES, NOTES, AND BOOKS MENTIONED) https://www.danielscrivner.com/notes/carey-smith-outliers-show-notes  FULL TEXT TRANSCRIPT https://www.danielscrivner.com/notes/carey-smith-outliers-transcript  CHAPTERS This episode is our definitive guide to building the world's least sexy $500M business. In it we cover: 00:00:00 – Introduction 00:01:17 – Carey’s childhood and first forays into business 00:06:24 – What Carey learned from the failure of his first company 00:11:42 – How Carey started Big Ass Fans 00:21:00 – Why humor is so important in business and customer service 00:32:46 – Focusing on excellent quality when selling a higher-priced product 00:36:51 – Receiving and listening to feedback to constantly improve a company 00:45:40 – Carey’s investment philosophy with Unorthodox Ventures 01:01:41 – Inspiration from one of Carey’s first supervisors ABOUT BIG ASS FANS AND CAREY SMITH Carey Smith is the Founder of Big Ass Fans, a business that he built from the ground up and scaled for nearly 20 years before selling for $500 million in 2017. Since then, he's founded Unorthodox Ventures, where he backs extraordinary founders and helps them scale their companies faster, using all of what he learned building Big Ass Fans. We go deep on a bunch of interesting topics, including lessons learned scaling Big Ass Fans, why it's important to deeply understand the people purchasing your product, not just those enjoying it, and building lucrative businesses in unsexy markets. 💌 FREE NEWSLETTER https://www.outlieracademy.com/newsletter 🎙 LISTEN ON iTunes: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/outlier-academy/id1523851182 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/58edVNgqaPNaCSGSxM6pef?si=88f37a5d20434775 Overcast: https://overcast.fm/itunes1523851182 ABOUT OUTLIER ACADEMY Learn timeless lessons on work and life from iconic founders, world-renown investors, and bestselling authors. Outlier Academy is the forever school for those chasing greatness. Past guests include Gokul Rajaram of DoorDash, Scott Belsky of Benchmark and Adobe, Joey Krug of Pantera Capital, Mark Sisson of Primal Kitchen, Luke Gromen of The Forest for the Trees, and Brian Scudamore of 1-800-GOT-JUNK. Website: https://www.outlieracademy.com Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/outlieracademy ABOUT DANIEL SCRIVNER Outlier Academy is hosted by Daniel Scrivner. Over the last 15 years, Daniel has led design teams at Square and Apple, turned around a $3M+ ARR SaaS business, and invested in more than 100 companies. He launched Outlier Academy in 2020 to learn from the world’s best founders, investors, authors, and peak performance experts. Website: https://www.danielscrivner.com Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/danielscrivner

We explore Deep Survival: The Incredible Neuroscience of Survival, Who Lives, and Who Dies. We’re joined by Laurence Gonzales, best-selling author. We cover habits during emergencies, practicing for disaster, and safety in the airline industry. “All accidents are the same. You kind of have to put them together from pieces. They don’t just happen. You have to assemble them.” — Laurence Gonzales EPISODE GUIDE (LINKS, QUOTES, NOTES, AND BOOKS MENTIONED) https://www.danielscrivner.com/notes/laurence-gonzales-outliers-show-notes  FULL TEXT TRANSCRIPT https://www.danielscrivner.com/notes/laurence-gonzales-outliers-transcript  CHAPTERS This episode is our guide to Deep Survival by Laurence Gonzales. In it we cover: 00:00:00 – Introduction 00:01:49 – How Laurence’s father’s survival of a World War II plane crash inspired his interest in survival themes 00:06:18 – How habituation and the brain-body complex work together 00:20:57 – Laurence’s views on arming police with military gear 00:24:26 – The concept of hot cognition in times of stress 00:31:28 – PTSD minus the D 00:51:35 – Safety in the airline industry 01:01:48 – The human brain on the “night shift” 01:06:07 – The Santa Fe Institute and Laurence’s work there ABOUT DEEP SURVIVAL AND LAURENCE GONZALES Laurence Gonzales started his career as a journalist and earned a Distinguished Service Award from the Society of Professional Journalists. He then went on to become an editor for multiple magazines, including Playboy back in the day. And he won two national awards from the American Society of Magazine Editors for his work on National Geographic's Adventure magazine. He's the bestselling author of multiple award winning books. He was awarded the Montaigne Medal from the Eric Hoffer Society in 2018, and won the prestigious Eric Hoffer Award in both 2018 and 2019. He has also been a Miller scholar at the illustrious Santa Fe Institute. 💌 FREE NEWSLETTER https://www.outlieracademy.com/newsletter 🎙 LISTEN ON iTunes: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/outlier-academy/id1523851182 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/58edVNgqaPNaCSGSxM6pef?si=88f37a5d20434775 Overcast: https://overcast.fm/itunes1523851182 ABOUT OUTLIER ACADEMY Learn timeless lessons on work and life from iconic founders, world-renown investors, and bestselling authors. Outlier Academy is the forever school for those chasing greatness. Past guests include Gokul Rajaram of DoorDash, Scott Belsky of Benchmark and Adobe, Joey Krug of Pantera Capital, Mark Sisson of Primal Kitchen, Luke Gromen of The Forest for the Trees, and Brian Scudamore of 1-800-GOT-JUNK. Website: https://www.outlieracademy.com Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/outlieracademy ABOUT DANIEL SCRIVNER Outlier Academy is hosted by Daniel Scrivner. Over the last 15 years, Daniel has led design teams at Square and Apple, turned around a $3M+ ARR SaaS business, and invested in more than 100 companies. He launched Outlier Academy in 2020 to learn from the world’s best founders, investors, authors, and peak performance experts. Website: https://www.danielscrivner.com Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/danielscrivner

In Episode #16, we explore The Chemistry of Fire: Essays with the author, Laurence Gonzales. We cover an adventure story of ice climbers on Mount Washington, the importance of rules and systems for decision making, and Laurence’s work with the Santa Fe Institute. “There’s no way to stop these accidents from happening, but there’s a way to stop them from happening to you.” – Laurence Gonzales EPISODE GUIDE (LINKS, QUOTES, NOTES, AND BOOKS MENTIONED) https://www.danielscrivner.com/notes/laurence-gonzales2-outliers-show-notes  FULL TEXT TRANSCRIPT https://www.danielscrivner.com/notes/laurence-gonzales2-outliers-transcript  CHAPTERS This episode is our definitive guide to The Chemistry of Fire. In it we cover: (00:00:00) – Introduction (00:01:32) – The concept of the chemistry of fire (00:05:06) – An adventure story of ice climbers on Mount Washington (00:06:57) – Why people keep going when they know they should turn back (00:15:54) – The importance of rules and systems for decision making (00:21:32) – The survival of a cross-country skier after a major mishap (00:27:32) – Laurence’s work with the Santa Fe Institute (00:34:02) – Words of wisdom for 2021 ABOUT THE CHEMISTRY OF FIRE Laurence Gonzales is the author of The Chemistry of Fire: Essays. In our previous conversation, we discussed Laurence's best selling book, Deep Survival, on who lives, who dies, and why. It's an incredible book, and it's filled with so many parallels to the worlds of business, investing, and peak performance. So when Laurence told me that he had a new book coming, I couldn't resist the urge to pick his brain one more time. 💌 FREE NEWSLETTER https://www.outlieracademy.com/newsletter 🎙 LISTEN ON iTunes: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/outlier-academy/id1523851182 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/58edVNgqaPNaCSGSxM6pef?si=88f37a5d20434775 Overcast: https://overcast.fm/itunes1523851182 ABOUT OUTLIER ACADEMY Learn timeless lessons on work and life from iconic founders, world-renown investors, and bestselling authors. Outlier Academy is the forever school for those chasing greatness. Past guests include Gokul Rajaram of DoorDash, Scott Belsky of Benchmark and Adobe, Joey Krug of Pantera Capital, Mark Sisson of Primal Kitchen, Luke Gromen of The Forest for the Trees, and Brian Scudamore of 1-800-GOT-JUNK. Website: https://www.outlieracademy.com Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/outlieracademy ABOUT DANIEL SCRIVNER Outlier Academy is hosted by Daniel Scrivner. Over the last 15 years, Daniel has led design teams at Square and Apple, turned around a $3M+ ARR SaaS business, and invested in more than 100 companies. He launched Outlier Academy in 2020 to learn from the world’s best founders, investors, authors, and peak performance experts. Website: https://www.danielscrivner.com Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/danielscrivner

We explore building the Apple Design Award-winning apps Halide and Spectre with Sebastiaan de With, Co-Founder and designer at Lux. We cover bridging the gap between visual design and product design, growing from one camera app to a photography company, and advice for those interested in creating and selling an app. “We will see the landscape littered with the burnt out husks of people that love their passions, but burn so bright that they burn out. And it is so, so valuable to give yourself time, to take a break, to reflect and to realize, ‘these are my passions—how can I healthily pursue them?’” – Sebastiaan de With EPISODE GUIDE (LINKS, QUOTES, NOTES, AND BOOKS MENTIONED) https://www.danielscrivner.com/notes/sebastiaan-de-with-outlier-academy-show-notes  FULL TEXT TRANSCRIPT https://www.danielscrivner.com/notes/sebastiaan-de-with-outlier-academy-transcript  CHAPTERS This episode is our definitive guide to building Apple Design Award-winning apps. In it we cover: (00:00:00) – Introduction (00:02:03) – Sebastiaan’s early introduction to designing icons with HP, Apple, and doubleTwist (00:09:23) – Apple as a workplace of incredible learning, punishingly hard work, and in depth design processes (00:17:35) – Bridging the gap between visual design and product design (00:19:53) – The making and success of Sebastiaan’s first camera app, Halide (00:29:28) – How passion relates to success (00:31:36) – Growing from one camera app to a photography company (00:33:34) – Physicality and attention to detail in digital design (00:45:04) – Advice for those interested in creating and selling an app (00:48:08) – Whether we should follow our passions in business, and how to nurture them (00:54:48) – Sebastiaan’s favorite failures and the definition of success  ABOUT SEBASTIAAN DE WITH AND LUX Aside from being an incredible designer, Sebastiaan has built one of the world's most successful, independent iOS app businesses with Lux. And it all started in 2017 when Ben Sandofsky and Sebastiaan launched their first app Halide, which went on to top the charts in the App Store and win Apple's App of the Year Award. Halide makes it incredibly easy to capture and edit beautiful, raw photos, right on your iPhone and now your iPad. They followed that up with the release of Spectre, which makes it easy to take long, exposure photos, which also topped the App Store and won them a second App of the Year Award. All of Lux's apps are centered around photography, and they're building a next-generation camera company.  💌 FREE NEWSLETTER https://www.outlieracademy.com/newsletter 🎙 LISTEN ON iTunes: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/outlier-academy/id1523851182 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/58edVNgqaPNaCSGSxM6pef?si=88f37a5d20434775 Overcast: https://overcast.fm/itunes1523851182 ABOUT OUTLIER ACADEMY Learn timeless lessons on work and life from iconic founders, world-renown investors, and bestselling authors. Outlier Academy is the forever school for those chasing greatness. Past guests include Gokul Rajaram of DoorDash, Scott Belsky of Benchmark and Adobe, Joey Krug of Pantera Capital, Mark Sisson of Primal Kitchen, Luke Gromen of The Forest for the Trees, and Brian Scudamore of 1-800-GOT-JUNK. Website: https://www.outlieracademy.com Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/outlieracademy ABOUT DANIEL SCRIVNER Outlier Academy is hosted by Daniel Scrivner. Over the last 15 years, Daniel has led design teams at Square and Apple, turned around a $3M+ ARR SaaS business, and invested in more than 100 companies. He launched Outlier Academy in 2020 to learn from the world’s best founders, investors, authors, and peak performance experts. Website: https://www.danielscrivner.com Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/danielscrivner

We explore finding, owning, and loving your voice. We’re joined by Jessica Hansen, In-House Voice Coach at NPR. We cover finding and honing the perfect NPR voice, techniques for finding your best voice, and Jessica’s voice coaching practice. “Your voice is your instrument and you are a professional voice user. — Jessica Hansen EPISODE GUIDE (LINKS, QUOTES, NOTES, AND BOOKS MENTIONED) https://www.danielscrivner.com/notes/jessica-hansen-outliers-show-notes  FULL TEXT TRANSCRIPT https://www.danielscrivner.com/notes/jessica-hansen-outliers-transcript  CHAPTERS This episode is our definitive guide to finding, owning, and loving your voice. In it we cover: 00:00:00 – Introduction 00:01:30 – How Jessica became interested in voice through theater 00:04:29 – Jessica’s work at NPR 00:09:13 – On finding and honing the perfect NPR voice 00:21:55 – Techniques on controlling your nerves before speaking, including breathwork 00:26:47 – The building blocks of voice 00:30:02 – Jessica’s voice coaching process, from beginner to advanced levels 00:38:47 – Simple but effective tips for finding your best voice 00:51:02 – Recommendations for resources on the voice ABOUT JESSICA HANSEN As an actress, Jessica Hansen has appeared on hit TV shows like Parks and Rec and Veep. And as a vocal coach, she works at NPR, where she helps all of NPR's on-air talent to sound incredible. In the lead-up to launching Outlier Academy, I was lucky enough to work with Jessica, and she helped me finally get comfortable and confident with my own voice. And that's exactly why I wanted to have her on the show. We go deep on how to find and own your voice, overcoming your fear of speaking publicly, why the best voices are often the quirkiest, and how to sound interesting, as well as why that's important. If you've ever struggled with your own voice, this episode is for you. 💌 FREE NEWSLETTER https://www.outlieracademy.com/newsletter 🎙 LISTEN ON iTunes: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/outlier-academy/id1523851182 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/58edVNgqaPNaCSGSxM6pef?si=88f37a5d20434775 Overcast: https://overcast.fm/itunes1523851182 ABOUT OUTLIER ACADEMY Learn timeless lessons on work and life from iconic founders, world-renown investors, and bestselling authors. Outlier Academy is the forever school for those chasing greatness. Past guests include Gokul Rajaram of DoorDash, Scott Belsky of Benchmark and Adobe, Joey Krug of Pantera Capital, Mark Sisson of Primal Kitchen, Luke Gromen of The Forest for the Trees, and Brian Scudamore of 1-800-GOT-JUNK. Website: https://www.outlieracademy.com Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/outlieracademy ABOUT DANIEL SCRIVNER Outlier Academy is hosted by Daniel Scrivner. Over the last 15 years, Daniel has led design teams at Square and Apple, turned around a $3M+ ARR SaaS business, and invested in more than 100 companies. He launched Outlier Academy in 2020 to learn from the world’s best founders, investors, authors, and peak performance experts. Website: https://www.danielscrivner.com Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/danielscrivner