What does it really take to scale a software company from $35M to $2B ARR? In this episode of Hunters & Unicorns, Simon Kouttis and Ollie Kuehne sit down with Dan Barrett, SVP International at Figma and former MongoDB leader, to unpack the lessons behind one of SaaS's most remarkable growth stories. Dan shares why he hates the word "playbook," how MongoDB evolved through multiple sales transformations, and why the best leaders focus on developing people—not following a rigid process. The conversation explores authenticity in leadership, building high-performance teams, scaling PLG and enterprise sales motions, customer success, AI's impact on software sales, and the leadership lessons that helped Dan grow from a first-time manager into one of the industry's most respected sales leaders. In this episode: • Scaling MongoDB from $35M to $2B ARR • Why Dan hates the term "playbook" • The leadership epiphany that changed his career • Building trust without fear or intimidation • PLG vs enterprise sales models • What great sales organizations do differently • How to develop future sales leaders • Why authenticity is a leadership superpower • AI, SaaS, and the future of enterprise sales Subscribe for more conversations with the leaders building the next generation of SaaS companies. #HuntersAndUnicorns #DanBarrett #Figma #MongoDB #SalesLeadership #SaaS #EnterpriseSales #PLG #CustomerSuccess #b2bsales Timestamps: 0:00 — Trailer 1:02 — Introduction & Sponsor 1:56 — Welcome Dan Barrett 2:35 — Dan's Career & the Epiphany Moment 9:00 — Pressure Before the Epiphany 10:02 — QBRs With John McMahon 11:50 — Fighting for Space to Change 13:37 — From MongoDB to Figma 17:21 — Where PLG Goes Wrong 19:00 — Rethinking the Playbook 23:55 — Learning What Works at Figma 31:46 — Playbook vs Authenticity 33:32 — Moving Into Customer Success 38:06 — Knowing When to Leave MongoDB 41:00 — Sustaining Energy for Nearly a Decade 43:31 — Hunters & Unicorns Origin Story 48:21 — Will Salespeople Survive AI 51:20 — The Future of Figma 54:03 — Closing

In this episode of Hunters & Unicorns, hosts Simon Kouttis and Ollie Kuehne sit down with Olivier Zieleniecki, Global Vice President of Partners at MongoDB, to discuss why the future of enterprise sales will be built around partnerships, ecosystems, and AI. As cloud marketplaces, hyperscalers, and AI continue reshaping how software is bought and sold, Olivier explains why traditional sales frameworks are no longer enough on their own. The next generation of sales leaders must learn how to leverage partner ecosystems, build strategic alliances, and create value beyond a single product or transaction. Drawing on nearly 20 years of enterprise software experience, Olivier shares how MongoDB scaled through partner-led growth, why partnerships are becoming a force multiplier for revenue, and what future CROs need to master to stay relevant in the AI era. In this episode: • How AI is changing enterprise sales • Why partnerships are becoming critical to growth • The evolution of partner-led revenue • How hyperscalers changed software buying • What great enterprise sellers do differently • Why future CROs must understand ecosystems • Strategic partnerships vs transactional selling • Building long-term customer value in the AI era • The future of software go-to-market   About Olivier Zieleniecki: Olivier Zieleniecki is the Global Vice President of Partners at MongoDB, leading the company's worldwide partner ecosystem strategy. Over the course of his career, he has helped scale enterprise software organizations while building strategic partnerships that drive long-term growth. About Hunters & Unicorns: Hunters & Unicorns explores the strategies, leadership lessons, and growth playbooks behind the world's most successful software companies through conversations with elite founders, operators, and GTM leaders. With thanks to our sponsors Aurasell. Timestamps: 0:00 — Trailer 1:20 — Introduction 3:10 — How Software Selling Is Changing 5:12 — How Hyperscalers & AI Are Reshaping the Landscape 7:50 — How Partner Complexity in Deals Has Changed 10:24 — Olivier's Career Journey Into Channel 13:57 — Why These Choices Are Setting Him Up for CRO 15:25 — Strategic vs Sourcing — What's the Difference 17:50 — How to Measure Partner Impact & Influence 19:20 — How Enterprise Sellers Should Work With Partners 21:30 — What Sellers Are Getting Wrong With Partners 23:15 — What Best Practice Actually Looks Like 27:43 — Has the Partner Team Ratio Changed at MongoDB 28:58 — How AI Is Impacting the Partner Ecosystem 30:57 — How AI Channel Strategy Differs From Cloud Alliances 32:40 — Will Classic Sales Principles Survive the AI Era 34:44 — The Guiding Principle Behind the Wizard of Oz Nickname 36:54 — How Partner Landscapes Differ Globally 38:31 — Biggest Predictions for Channel by 2030 40:35 — Tools to Track & Measure Partner Success 43:23 — Should Channel Become a Letter in MEDPIC 44:26 — Closing

In this episode, Peppa Wise, SVP of Go-To-Market at Multiverse, breaks down the real differences between scaling from 0 to 10 million, 10 to 100 million, and beyond. From early-stage hustle and chaos to building scalable systems, leadership teams, and world-class sales processes, this conversation is packed with lessons most operators only learn the hard way. Peppa shares the painful mistakes that shaped her leadership journey, including the year Multiverse fell behind on productive capacity, why hiring the wrong people can quietly destroy growth, and why great leaders must learn to balance accountability with empathy. The conversation also explores AI, workforce transformation, leadership psychology, sales rigor, emotional resilience, and why Multiverse believes the future of work depends on helping companies actually adopt AI — not just buy new tools. If you're building a startup, leading a sales team, scaling a company, or trying to become a better leader, this episode is full of hard-earned insights you can apply immediately. With thanks to our sponsors Aurasell. Timestamps: 0:00 — Trailer1:18 — Introduction & Guest Overview2:59 — What Separates the 0-10, 10-100 & 100M+ Stages4:48 — Early Learnings & What to Overcome in the 0-10 Journey7:00 — What Leadership Looks Like at 0-108:58 — Reflecting on Your 0-10 Self & Mistakes Made10:24 — How Mentorship Fuelled Evolution Through Each Stage13:01 — Is It Okay to Specialize in One Stage15:38 — What Is Your Long-Term Ambition17:12 — Have You Changed as a Person Through This Journey19:46 — How to Coach Leaders Being Inauthentic21:16 — Were There Any Real Career Low Points24:26 — What Does Maniacal Productive Capacity Mean25:57 — What Signals Show Someone Is Ready to Promote28:38 — Where People Go Wrong With Productive Capacity33:10 — How to Manage Emotion Under Pressure37:54 — What Separates First From Second Line Leaders40:13 — Do You Hire People Similar to Yourself42:32 — What Changes Has Donn Driven in Year One45:45 — What Excites You Most About This Next Phase48:13 — Why Multiverse Is Still the Destination49:46 — Common Misconceptions About Multiverse51:17 — Closing & Final Thoughts

What does it really take to scale a sales team inside a billion-dollar company without losing culture, performance, and leadership quality along the way? In this episode, Peppa Wise and Euan Blair break down the real playbook behind scaling one of the fastest-growing teams in the UK. From the chaos of the 0 to 10 million stage to building sustainable systems at scale, this conversation dives deep into leadership, hiring, productive capacity, mentorship, sales culture, and the lessons most founders only learn after painful mistakes. Peppa shares her journey from one of the early hires at Multiverse to leading a 120+ person go-to-market organization, while Euan opens up about building a mission-driven company during one of the biggest shifts in the future of work and AI. The episode also explores: - Why most companies fail when scaling teams - The leadership traits that matter most in hypergrowth - Why top performers don’t always become great leaders - The hidden cost of hiring the wrong people - How elite sales organizations maintain standards while scaling fast - The role AI will play in reshaping workforce productivity - Why culture and mentorship become even more important at scale If you're a founder, sales leader, startup operator, or anyone building inside a fast-growing company, this episode is packed with lessons you rarely hear shared this openly. With thanks to our sponsors, Aurasell. Timestamps: 0:00 — Trailer 1:03 — Introduction & Guest Overview 2:18 — Peppa's Role at Multiverse 3:02 — How Peppa Ended Up at Multiverse 9:18 — Early Interactions & What That Dynamic Was Like 11:58 — The Transition From SaaS to Services 13:11 — Were You All In From Day One 15:27 — When Did You Start Seeing Proof in the Numbers 17:37 — Were You Ever Intimidated Bringing In Great Talent 19:34 — How the Relationship Between Peppa & Euan Evolved 23:02 — Bringing Donn Into the Business 26:55 — What Donn Brings to Peppa Personally 29:42 — Was Don's Impact Felt Instantly or Gradually 32:50 — How a Visionary Founder Stays Grounded 35:40 — What Excites You Most About the Next Few Years 39:02 — What Could Stop Multiverse From Being Successful 40:38 — Fine-Tuning Direction or Focused on Execution 41:58 — Why Multiverse Is the Right Place to Join Right Now 47:32 — Closing & Final Thoughts

What does the future of hiring, leadership, and company building actually look like in the age of AI? In this episode, Rhys Hughes, Executive Talent Partner at GV, joins us for a fascinating deep dive into the battle for talent happening inside the world’s fastest-growing AI companies. From billion-dollar compensation packages and the rise of vertical AI startups to what founders are really looking for in executives, this conversation pulls back the curtain on how the next generation of iconic companies are being built. We explore the reality of scaling in today’s market. Why velocity has become one of the defining traits of elite founders, how culture is becoming more important than compensation, and why networking and relationship-building are now critical career advantages in an AI-driven world. Rhys also shares incredible insight into what’s happening inside the venture ecosystem at GV, where the biggest opportunities are emerging across AI, robotics, life sciences, frontier tech, and enterprise software — alongside the major risks and bottlenecks founders are navigating in real time. If you're interested in AI, startups, venture capital, hiring, go-to-market strategy, or the future of work, this is an episode you don’t want to miss. Timestamps: 0:00 — Trailer 1:30 — Introduction & Guest Overview 2:29 — The Battle for Talent in the AI Era 4:36 — Profound Differences in This New Market 6:39 — How Organizations Are Attracting Talent & How Candidates Are Choosing 9:20 — How to Evaluate a Strong Equity Package 11:41 — Are New Comp Models Like Anthropic's Driving the Right Behaviours 14:36 — How Founders Are Approaching Go-to-Market in the AI Era 17:30 — How Does a Company Stand Out 21:44 — What Velocity Really Means & Why It Matters 23:05 — What Rhys Is Seeing From Founders Right Now 26:12 — Rogue Founders: GV's Red Lines & What They Look For 29:17 — Why Building VC Talent Relationships Is Non-Negotiable 36:19 — What Sectors & Trends GV Is Most Excited About 38:14 — Specific AI Trends Shaping GV's Investment Thesis 42:50 — Biggest Bottlenecks That Could Slow Everything Down 44:29 — How GTM Talent Should Get on the Radar of Top Portfolio Companies 47:50 — The Biggest Mistakes People Make Choosing the Wrong Company

From Downing Street to Disrupting the Future of Work! What does it really take to build a $500M+ company that’s reshaping how the world learns and works? In this episode, Euan Blair, Founder & CEO of Multiverse, joins us for a candid, high-energy conversation on building a mission-driven business that actually scales. From reimagining apprenticeships as a global workforce revolution to breaking down the science behind elite B2B sales, this episode is packed with insights most founders never hear. We dive into the reality of the journey. Key hires, tough mistakes, and the inflection points that change everything, alongside a powerful perspective on AI and why it will either transform or disrupt the future of work as we know it. If you're interested in startups, sales, AI, or building something that truly matters, this is one you don’t want to miss! With thanks to our sponsors Aurasell. Timestamps: 0:00 — Trailer 0:54 — Euan Blair Introduction 01:49 — Sponsor: Aurasell 03:07 — Why Euan Chose Founding Over Politics & Finance 05:11 — Was Being a Founder Always the Plan 07:36 — Shaping the Vision & Early Surroundings 09:00 — Why VCs Invested in Multiverse 11:10 — Preparing for First Fundraise 12:34 — Life After Getting the Money 14:20 — Jeremy: The Game-Changing Hire 22:44 — Building the First Sales Team 26:10 — Tough Learnings & Biggest Mistakes 28:30 — Moments of Self-Doubt as a Founder 30:36 — What Really Motivates Euan 33:55 — AI & Workforce Displacement 36:04 — Why Euan Appointed Don D'Arcy's 40:22 — Keeping Pace with AI Change 42:32 — How the CEO Role Is Evolving 43:50 — Multiverse vs Typical SaaS Model 46:00 — What It Takes to Succeed Here

Today we sit down with Doug May, SVP of Productivity at Harness, to discuss one of the most critical yet overlooked aspects of a healthy organization: Sales Productivity. Doug has had an illustrious career at elite organizations including Datadog and Databricks, and he brings that expertise to Harness, where he has cut ramp time in half and increased per-rep contribution by 43%. We explore the "F1 engineering team" analogy of GTM support, why productivity metrics are the ultimate indicator of a company’s health, and the specific questions every candidate should ask to de-risk their next career move. 🙌 Thanks To Our Sponsor! Aurasell AI: https://www.aurasell.ai   🏹 Key Topics Covered 00:00 - In this episode 02:44 – What is Sales Productivity Strategy? 04:00 – The F1 Analogy 05:15 – Measuring Every Step of the Process 07:45 – Cutting Ramp Time in Half at Harness 09:05 – Optimizing the Hiring Profile 12:02 – How Investors Use Productivity as a Health Signal 13:57 – Questions to Ask During Recruiting 18:23 – Benchmarks for Rep Attainment 20:00 – The Six Secrets of Excellence 25:34 – Productivity Leadership and the CRO 31:12 – Understanding CAC and Scalability 42:45 – The 5X Win Rate Improvement   💥 3 Biggest Lessons: The F1 Engineering Team Approach: Doug views the productivity function as the engineering team behind an F1 driver. Elite sellers are the drivers, but they shouldn't be dropped into any car. A world-class productivity strategy provides the fuel (pipeline), the GPS (RevOps), and the tools to optimize every contributor's horsepower to ensure they reach "elite" status. De-Risk Your Career with Data: Candidates should scrutinize an organization’s health through productivity metrics, not just OTE. Key indicators include ramp time (e.g., 7 months vs. 15 months), the percentage of ramped reps achieving quota, and average deal size. If a CEO does not list sales productivity as one of their top three success metrics, it is a sign that the organization may view sales as a cost center rather than an investment engine. Decision Velocity is Critical for Growth: In a high-growth environment, waiting to make decisions is not an option. Doug highlights the concept of one-way vs. two-way doors: identifying which decisions are reversible so the team can maintain high velocity. This agility allows an organization to respond to data in real-time and win the competitive race. 💬 Notable Quotes "We are basically there to optimize the horsepower of every single seller in the organization." "Any change is incremental until you pile them on top of each other." "If sales productivity is not one of [the top three metrics], I should probably walk away." "Great talent... can make hay in any field if they’re supported properly." "You have to be willing to do the hard, hard stuff." 🙌 Thanks for listening! This episode was hosted by Simon Kouttis and Ollie Kuehne, founders of Hunters & Unicorns, and post-produced by the team at videoforce.pro. If you enjoyed this episode, please drop a like/share and subscribe to our channel! 🦄 Connect with Hunters & Unicorns Website: http://huntersandunicorns.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/HuntersUn1corns Instagram: http://instagram.com/huntersandunicorns Blog: http://huntersandunicorns.com/blog #softwaresales #huntersandunicorns #playbookuniverse #salesproductivity

In this episode, we sit down with Anish Agarwal, CEO and Co-founder of Traversal, for a deep dive into the substance behind the AI noise. Anish, a former Columbia professor and researcher in causal AI, shares his unique journey from academia to founding an organization disrupting the site reliability engineering (SRE) and observability space. We explore the critical difference between "AI wrappers" and companies building genuine infrastructure, the emergence of the "Forward Deployed Engineer" in the sales pod, and how to identify technical moats in a world where models are rapidly evolving. 🙌 Thanks To Our Sponsor! Aurasell AI: https://www.aurasell.ai 🏹 Key Topics Covered 00:00 - Intro 01:53 – Traversal: the AI Site Reliability Engineer 03:14 – AI Wrappers vs. AI Native 04:58 – The Importance of a Technical Moat 07:27 – Human Error and Data Scarcity 08:56 – From Experimental Budgets to Production Reality 14:42 – The Rise of the "Forward Deployed Engineer" 22:50 – From PhD to Founder 34:50 – Rethinking the Observability Stack 💥 3 Biggest Lessons: A Technical Moat Lives in Infrastructure and Data: Anish argues that a sustainable AI company must be an infrastructure and data company at its core. If your value is purely in prompt engineering or simple workflows, model companies (like OpenAI) will eventually "eat" those features. A true moat is developed through context engineering—managing petabytes of data in a way that is consumable for LLMs—and functioning on systems elements haven't been trained on, such as private observability logs. Target Workflows Where Humans Are "Bad": When assessing the longevity of an AI solution, look at the tasks it automates. If a human is already good at the task, data for that workflow is easily collected and fed into public models, making the solution easy to replicate. The most defensible AI companies solve superhuman problems—tasks humans are inherently bad at or data types (like time-series logs) that are not publicly available for training. The Chasm Between Pilot and Production: We are entering a phase where the "experimental AI budget" is drying up. Winners in the next two years will be companies that can connect their year-long pilots to hard labor or software spend. This requires tight technical scoping and a "pre-sales mindset" that lasts long after the initial check is signed to ensure the product survives the first renewal cycle. 💬 Notable Quotes "As much as we’ve been an AI company, we’ve been an infrastructure and data company." "If you are creating prompts or simple workflows, the models will just keep eating those up." "The un-sexy part of AI—how you actually deploy this and comply with regulation—that is what is now maturing." "Sales is a first-class citizen in the company... a less good product can win if you have the right team to bring it to market." "I’ve become a student of sales... it eventually becomes a systems engineering problem." 🙌 Thanks for listening! This episode was hosted by Simon Kouttis and Oli Kuehne, founders of Hunters & Unicorns, and post-produced by the team at videoforce.pro. If you enjoyed this episode, please drop a like/share and subscribe to our channel! 🦄 Connect with Hunters & Unicorns Website: http://huntersandunicorns.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/HuntersUn1corns Instagram: http://instagram.com/huntersandunicorns Blog: http://huntersandunicorns.com/blog #softwaresales #huntersandunicorns #playbookuniverse

Today we tackle the noise surrounding the AI movement with Paul Klein, CEO and Founder of Browserbase. With a career spanning early-stage Twilio to raising $70 million in under two years for his own infrastructure startup, Paul brings much-needed critical thinking to the "AI bubble" debate. We explore the bridge between old-world sales principles and modern, developer-first GTM strategies. Paul breaks down why Product-Led Growth (PLG) should be viewed as a pipeline engine rather than just a revenue machine and explains the power of the "Logo Flywheel" in creating executive FOMO. 🙌 Thanks To Our Sponsor! Aurasell AI: https://www.aurasell.ai 🏹 Key Topics Covered 00:00 - Intro 02:20 - AI Bubble: Hype vs. Genuine Technology Value 05:19 - Building the "Logo Flywheel" 08:42 - Raising $70M in 2 Years 10:15 - Infrastructure Power 11:13 - PLG as a Lead Engine 19:15 - Selling Inspiration, Not Just Problems 32:14 - From Twilio to Browserbase 36:00 - Building a Generational Company 💥 3 Biggest Lessons: Bring Critical Thinking to the AI Wave: While technology is creating real value, Paul warns against blindly buying into the financing hype. He emphasizes that both sellers and buyers must look for sustainable business models and long-term viability. Success in the AI era requires a "critical eye" to separate genuine innovation from experimental revenue that may not renew. The "Logo Flywheel" is the Ultimate De-Risk: For infrastructure companies, social proof is invaluable. Executives often make decisions based on FOMO (fear of missing out), looking for established logos to validate their choice. By landing high-profile customers early, you create a flywheel effect that makes subsequent sales easier and de-risks the purchase for the next executive buyer. PLG and Sales are Not a False Dichotomy: Paul challenges the idea that you must choose between being a PLG company or a sales-led company. Instead, use PLG as a lead engine. Letting developers self-serve allows them to "try on" the software like a jacket, while the sales team focuses on high-value "graduation" opportunities—converting active users into enterprise-level champions. 💬 Notable Quotes "We need to bring critical thinking to the AI bubble and the AI wave." "If you can get these great logos that inspire other companies, it's going to be much easier to sell." "Developers... want to try it on. You don’t just buy a jacket without trying it on." "You have to think a lot more like an angel investor or a VC than like a salesperson." "First move is often lose... someone can copy everything... but they won’t get the 10,000 hours of customer understanding." 🙌 Thanks for listening! This episode was hosted by Simon Kouttis and Ollie Kuehne, founders of Hunters & Unicorns, and post-produced by the team at videoforce.pro. If you enjoyed this episode, please drop a like/share and subscribe to our channel! 🦄 Connect with Hunters & Unicorns Website: http://huntersandunicorns.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/HuntersUn1corns Instagram: http://instagram.com/huntersandunicorns Blog: http://huntersandunicorns.com/blog #softwaresales #huntersandunicorns #playbookuniverse

Today we sit down with John Lack, Global Head of Sales Development at Airtable, to demystify the world of software sales as a profession. John breaks down the immense rewards of the industry—from earning six figures right out of college as a successful BDR to mastering the "autonomy, mastery, and purpose" of high-level tech sales. We explore why the BDR role is the most critical time in a career for building foundational grit and why 90% of AE struggles stem from poor front-end pipeline generation. John also shares his own unconventional journey, starting as a BDR at age 30 and scaling teams through massive growth phases at Oracle and MongoDB. 🙌 Thanks To Our Sponsor! Aurasell AI: https://www.aurasell.ai 🏹 Key Topics Covered 00:00 - Intro 01:53 - Software Sales as a High-Trajectory Profession 03:48 - The Six-Figure Entry: SDR/BDR Realities 06:47 - Why PG Sets You Free 10:27 - Grit and Resilience: Pushing the Boulder 16:51 - How to Assess the Right Organization 20:25 - Uncommon Investment in Development 33:28 - John’s Story: Starting as a BDR at 30 43:32 - The AE and BDR Partnership Dynamics   💥 3 Biggest Lessons: Pipeline Generation is the Foundation of Success: Most Account Executives who struggle do so because they lack consistent pipeline generation skills from the front half of the sales process. The BDR role is not just a stepping stone; it is where you learn the "meat and potatoes" of sales—doing the gritty work in the dark, from cold calls to disqualification, that eventually sets a field seller apart. Seek "Uncommon Investment" in Development: When interviewing, candidates must challenge organizations on their training programs. A high-quality program can clearly articulate its methodology (Learn, Practice, Do), validates skills through real-world application, and provides double the industry standard of coaching time—dedicating specific hours to both pipeline strategy and individual skill development. Habits Determine Your Fate: Success in sales is fueled by a consistent "operating rhythm" and discipline. Resilience—the ability to view 70,000+ cold calls as a way to learn rather than just experiencing rejection—and the discipline to maintain consistent prospecting habits are what ultimately determine a leader's career trajectory. 💬 Notable Quotes "You can easily make six figures right out of college as a successful BDR and it just goes up from there". "PG is life. It sets you free". "You don't determine your fate. You determine your habits and your habits ultimately play a huge part in determining your fate". "I made somewhere in the neighborhood of 70,000 plus cold calls in my life... that teaches you a certain level of resilience". "There is no AI without APIs... AI is not going to have that first conversation and really do phenomenal qualification".   🙌 Thanks for listening! This episode was hosted by Simon Kouttis and Ollie Kuehne, founders of Hunters & Unicorns, and post-produced by the team at videoforce.pro. If you enjoyed this episode, please drop a like/share and subscribe to our channel! 🦄 Connect with Hunters & Unicorns Website: http://huntersandunicorns.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/HuntersUn1corns Instagram: http://instagram.com/huntersandunicorns Blog: http://huntersandunicorns.com/blog #softwaresales #huntersandunicorns #playbookuniverse