Professor Paul Behrens of the Oxford martin School at the University of Oxford works at the intersection of food systems, climate change, and food security. Originally trained in physics and astronomy, he spent years working on energy systems before turning his attention to what he now believes is one of the most fragile and underestimated threats we face: the food system that feeds us. Paul is the author of the popular science book, The Best of Times, The Worst of Times: Futures from the Frontiers of Climate Science (Indigo Press, 2021) which describes humanity’s current trajectory and possible futures in paired chapters of pessimism and hope. His research and writing on climate, energy, and food, has appeared in scientific journals and media outlets such as the BBC, The Guardian, Thomson Reuters, Politico, Nature Sustainability, Nature Energy, PNAS, Nature Food, and We cover Climate change is already driving a third of food price inflation in the UK, with drought, flooding, geopolitical instability, and energy shocks potentially pushing prices to 1970s levels The UK holds between three days and three weeks of food storage; Finland has nine months A Joint Intelligence Committee report on ecosystem collapse was suppressed before being released in abridged form. Animals lose between 80–97% of the calories fed to them; that inefficiency becomes catastrophic as climate change shrinks the productive biosphere Shifting to a planetary health diet could reduce emissions by 61%, spare an area the size of Scotland, and save the NHS tens of billions of pounds a year We massively underestimate each other's willingness to act on climate — 60% of people intending to vote Reform support onshore wind turbines Over 40% of the UK supports a meat tax, despite politicians treating it as political suicide Food price spikes historically drive political instability and state collapse; climate change contributed to the Syrian conflict and is already destabilising politics worldwide Trump's election and the current political atmosphere are partly driven by climate impacts we're not naming as such Denmark's food transition plan is the most credible government approach in the world New York hospitals made plant-based meals the default and found them cheaper, healthier, and more popular Far more grazing land could support arable agriculture than commonly assumed Heritage arguments about land use are recent and shouldn't override future food security Rewilding and nature management could increase farmer incomes while restoring biodiversity —— Find Paul's work and research at the University of Oxford Read the National Emergency Briefing at https://www.nebriefing.org/ Subscribe to the Climate Unf*cked podcast at https://climateunfucked.substack.com/ And connect with me on LinkedIn at: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rob-coop/ —— Chapters 00:00 Should we be worried about food system collapse? 04:03 Are we choosing this change or being forced into it? 04:33 The thermodynamics of a shrinking food supply 07:22 What the "planetary health diet" looks like 09:30 How to rewild land the size of Scotland 11:54 Why food decisions are emotional 13:48 We wildly underestimate how much people care 16:25 Meat Tax 18:52 The purpose of misinformation 24:47 How much bad diets are costing the NHS 27:12 The supressed gov. report on food collapse 33:11 The link between food prices and state collapse 36:04 Trump, cost of living and the politics of instability 38:33 Is any country actually food secure? 41:01 The UK has 3 days of food storage. Finland has 9 months 46:19 Could we grow crops on grazing land instead? 51:07 Why plants = electrification for humans 55:58 Denmark's groundbreaking plan 59:10 The NYC hospital expreiment 1:01:02 Paul's billboard message to the world 1:03:48 The one paper Paul wishes everyone would read 1:05:14 What to actually do today

Dr Mark Harber is a consultant nephrologist (kidney doctor) and the Royal College of Physicians' special adviser on healthcare sustainability and climate change. He's spent years working at the intersection of medicine and the environment as a member of the Sustainable Kidney Care committee, a clinical lead for the NHS London sustainability group, and an advisor to the UCL Partners Climate Collaborative. Now, he helps shape how the RCP advocates and lobbies on healthcare's role in the climate crisis. This conversation goes deep into the surprisingly stark relationship between heat and human health: why the death rate in London starts climbing at just 24 degrees, why 2026's June heatwave in the UK heatwave produced an estimated 2,900 excess deaths, and why chronic conditions from epilepsy to kidney failure get dramatically worse as the mercury rises. Mark explains why big national statistics can feel strangely meaningless next to a single hospital admission, and why he believes there's little point terrifying the public without giving them something practical to do about it. We talk about the NHS's own outsized carbon footprint (around 5% of the UK's total, more than the aviation industry) and why it became the first health system in the world to commit to net zero, back in 2019. Mark explains the hidden environmental cost of kidney dialysis, which can use 400 litres of water per session and carries 16 times the carbon footprint of an average NHS patient, and why the UK is on track to be 6 billion litres of water short every day by 2050. We also cover the less obvious ways climate change threatens healthcare itself: 90% of English hospitals at risk of overheating, a tenth to a third at risk of flooding, and disease-carrying mosquitoes now established in France and Italy that never used to survive this far north. —— Learn more about the RCP's Green Physician Toolkit at https://www.rcp.ac.uk/policy-and-campaigns/our-policy-priorities/climate-and-sustainability/green-physician-toolkit/ Find the National Emergency Briefing at https://www.nebriefing.org/ Find Real Zero's 7 Acts to Save the World at https://www.realzero.earth Subscribe to the Climate Unf*cked podcast at https://climateunfucked.substack.com/ And connect with me on LinkedIn at: /rob-coop https://www.linkedin.com/in/rob-coop/ —— Chapters 0:00 Why 24°C Already Raises the Death Rate 2:52 The Grim Maths Behind 2,900 Excess Deaths 4:17 Why Big Climate Numbers Feel Meaningless 6:20 Should We Be Scaring the Public About Heat? 8:13 The Delhi Cooling Rooms Saving Tuk-Tuk Drivers 10:41 Why Flights Are Up 80% in 20 Years 12:15 The Healthcare Sector Emits More Than Aviation 15:43 Why Institutions Fear the "Art of the Possible" 18:43 Why Your Dialysis Machine Has a Bigger Carbon Footprint 23:13 The Hospital Built to Handle Only 28°C 25:09 The Mosquito Bringing Dengue to Britain 27:35 Methane Is 80 Times Worse Than CO2 29:53 You're More Likely to Leave Your Partner Than Your Bank 33:18 Why Doctors Won't Sell You on Climate 37:12 How One Kilo of Plastic Costs Three of Oil 40:22 Why Politicians Won't Just Tell Us the Truth 44:50 The Hidden Kidney Risk in London's Air 49:43 The Hospital That Stopped Mowing Its Lawns 53:20 What Climate Activism Can Learn From Medicine 56:30 Why "What Can I Do?" Is Almost Enough 59:43 Tell Your Canvasser Climate Change Matters

Per Espen Stoknes is a psychologist, economist, and one of the world's leading experts on why climate change feels so hard to act on—and what actually works to break through that paralysis. He's the author of ‘What We Think About When We Try Not to Think About Global Warming’, ‘Tomorrow's Economy: A Guide to Creating Healthy Green Growth’ and ‘Earth for All: A Survival Guide for Humanity’ He’s associate professor and co-director of the BI Center for Sustainability and Energy, and someone who's spent decades unpacking the psychological barriers that keep us stuck: distance, doom, dissonance, denial, and identity. This conversation goes deep into the mechanics of climate psychology—why telling people what to do almost always backfires, why inequality is one of the biggest accelerants of climate inaction, and why the pendulum swings of history might be our strangest source of hope. We talk about why comedy and messengers like Joe Rogan matter more than scientists think, why AI and privacy loss mirror the climate crisis psychologically, and why Per believes the next frontier isn't just decarbonisation—it's rewilding finance itself. We cover why attacking someone's identity shuts down climate conversation immediately, how social trust is the variable that determines whether governments can actually implement climate policy, and why the UK cutting 2% of global emissions matters far more than the math suggests. Per explains why the five barriers to climate action—distance, doom, dissonance, denial, and identity—also apply to digital privacy and AI, why inequality creates a vicious cycle that makes climate action nearly impossible, and why universal basic income might be one of the most powerful climate policies we're not talking about. We also talk about why Per thinks Trump's second term might accidentally be the pendulum swing we need, why possibilism is a better philosophical framework than optimism or pessimism, and why the people with the answers—indigenous communities—are the ones we keep ignoring. He shares his vision for biodiversity credits that pay land stewards for regeneration, why AI could either accelerate the climate transition or make inequality catastrophically worse, and why the questions he wishes people would ask are about the assumptions underneath everything we're doing. —— Find Per's work at stoknes.com Learn more about Earth for All at earth4all.life Subscribe to the Climate Unf*cked podcast at https://climateunfucked.substack.com/ And connect with me on LinkedIn at: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rob-coop/ —— Chapters 0:00 Why Facts Make People Believe You Less 2:35 The Real Reason Arguments Feel Like Personal Attacks 3:26 The One Question That Defuses Any Disagreement 4:09 What Jeremy Clarkson Gets Right 6:13 Why You Only Listen to People Like You 8:51 A Psychologist's Dream Messenger: Joe Rogan 9:49 The Two Groups Who Care Least About Climate 10:50 Why You Need 9 Good Stories for Every Bad One 14:49 The Solar Boom That Could Power the Entire Planet 18:11 Why Systems Thinking Kills Polarisation 22:07 The Pizza That Explains Why Your 2% Matters 24:11 How One Norwegian Tax Made Your EV Cheaper 27:35 Why You're Not as Powerless as You Feel 30:10 The Two Trends That Could Undo Everything 34:32 The 5 Turnarounds We Actually Need 37:08 Why Things Get Worse Before They Get Better 42:02 "I Fell Through the Floor When Trump Won Again" 42:45 The Black Swan That Changes Everything 46:05 The Hidden Link Between Inequality and Climate 53:16 Is AI a Confirmation Bias Machine? 57:38 How AI Could Quietly Make Us More Unequal 58:08 The Surprising Ways AI Could Save Us 1:05:37 What One Person Can Actually Do About AI 1:07:54 The 4 Roles You Didn't Know You Had 1:10:03 Why Climate and Privacy Break Your Brain the Same Way 1:12:00 The Data Trap You're Walking Into 1:15:05 Why We Can't See Inside AI 1:16:05 Paying Indigenous Tribes to Protect Jaguars 1:19:16 The Questions Per Is Sick of Being Asked 1:21:01 Why 35 Years of Sustainability Failed

Stuart Goldsmith is a stand-up comedian with 20 years of experience who's spent the last five years doing something almost no other comic attempts: making audiences laugh about the climate crisis. Professor Lauren Feldman teaches Media and Climate Change at Rutgers University, where her students regularly bring in clips of Stuart's work to dissect in class. She's the co-author of A Comedian and an Activist Walk into a Bar: The Serious Role of Comedy in Social Justice, and her research unpacks why comedy is one of the most powerful tools we have for breaking through climate denial, fear, and apathy. This conversation explores why it's so hard to make people laugh about something that genuinely terrifies you, why comedy works when facts and fear don't, and why the brand of climate action is so catastrophically bad that we desperately need comedians to fix it. We talk about the psychology of counter-arguing, why charged information shuts down the prefrontal cortex, and how comedy creates a kind of social lubricant that lets unpalatable truths slip past our defenses. Stuart explains why he had to convince himself not to cry on stage, why his climate confessions format helps people admit their hypocrisy without shame, and why he's trying to write the perfect joke about how activists are the only professionals not allowed to fly. Lauren shares research showing that comedy increases engagement, makes messages more memorable, and helps people feel less alone in their climate anxiety. We also talk about why partisan comedy backfires with skeptical audiences, why the tabloid press treated Britain's hottest May on record like a beach party, and why Stuart believes the more you learn about climate change, the less paralyzed you feel. —— Find Stuart's work and UK tour dates at stuartgoldsmith.com Find Lauren's book A Comedian and an Activist Walk into a Bar on Amazon and University of California Press Subscribe to the Climate Unf*cked podcast at https://climateunfucked.substack.com/ And connect with me on LinkedIn at: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rob-coop/ —— Chapters 00:00 Lauren studies Stuart's work 01:53 Is it odd to make people laugh about something that scares you? 04:18 What emotion should comedy target? 05:59 Comedy as a social lubricant 08:23 Why learning more makes you less scared 11:40 The brand of climate is terrible 13:44 Lauren's research: nonpartisan vs partisan comedy 17:39 Does comedy break down barriers better than other mediums? 20:11 How comedy reduces counter-arguing 23:43 Jokes as compressed files 24:38 The hypocrisy bit: flying to a climate conference 26:27 Do you lean into virtue signalling or stay away? 29:02 Climate confessions and why they work 33:05 Does shaming change behaviour? 35:44 Disrupting the doomism narrative 39:33 Does it work differently online? 45:16 The heatwave and making the invisible visible 48:48 Arthur's Seat caught fire: complexity in comedy 50:16 Talking about effects vs causes 51:34 The Joint Intelligence Committee report on biodiversity 54:52 Your phones are fine, everyone else's have slave minerals 56:17 If you had a billboard, what would it say? 1:03:09 The joke Stuart wishes he could write 1:06:51 Personal action as background work, not the solution 1:09:58 Where to find Stuart and Lauren's work

Check out the UK's most trusted climate action platform, Ecologi at: https://tinyurl.com/kfswnxth Vojtech Vosecky is one of the world's leading voices on the circular economy, with nearly a quarter of a million people following his work on LinkedIn. He's an environmental engineer who's spent over a decade working inside the European Parliament, advising governments, training over 350 circular economy professionals, and building a global community of changemakers across 20 cities from Barcelona to Melbourne. His mission is simple: turn as many people as possible into circular economists, because he believes that's where the exponential impact lies in unfucking our climate. This conversation unpacks why 90% of people think climate change is only about energy when the other half of the coin is resources. We dive into what the circular economy actually is, why nature has always been circular, and why recycling is the worst of all the good options we have. Vojtech explains why 45% of global emissions come from how we make, use, and waste stuff, and why the plastic bottle you drink from in 30 seconds represents months of materials, fossil fuels, and energy that's lost the moment you throw it away. This is a masterclass in rethinking waste, rethinking consumption, and rethinking what it means to be a changemaker instead of a consumer. —— This podcast is sponsored by Ecologi, the UK's most trusted climate action platform. They help businesses reduce their emissions, restore our planet and report their progress for every step of their climate journey. Check them out here: https://tinyurl.com/kfswnxth —— Find Vojtech on LinkedIn and learn more about his circular economy training program: https://www.linkedin.com/in/vojtechvosecky/ Subscribe to the Climate Unf*cked podcast at https://climateunfucked.substack.com/ And connect with me on LinkedIn at: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rob-coop/ —— Chapters 00:00 What is the circular economy? 06:30 Linear vs circular: the plastic bottle example 12:15 Why climate isn't just about energy 18:40 The problem with the carbon footprint 24:50 Individual action vs systemic change 30:20 Building a community of circular economists 36:45 Which sectors need circularity most? 42:10 Gothenburg's housing crisis solved without building 48:30 How Philips pivoted from selling to leasing light 54:00 The 9 circular business models explained 1:02:15 Why 40% of food is wasted before it's eaten 1:08:40 Designing waste out of the system 1:14:20 What individuals can actually do 1:20:30 Stop being a consumer, start being a changemaker

Check out the UK's most trusted climate action platform, Ecologi at: https://tinyurl.com/kfswnxth Aurélie Maréchal is the Director of Positive Money Europe, an organisation working to reform the economic system so that it works for people and the planet. She's spent 15 years inside the European policy machine, watching the Green Deal go from a fringe idea to the headline of the European Commission, and then watching it disappear from political discourse entirely in just five years. She now spends her time showing policymakers, central banks, and businesses why the way we handle money, interest rates, and investment is one of the most powerful climate levers we're not using properly. This conversation unpacks the relationship between climate and economics that almost nobody explains clearly: why fossil fuels drive inflation, why raising interest rates to fight that inflation actually makes renewable energy harder to finance, and why the European Central Bank's standard playbook is accidentally locking us into the very system we're trying to escape. We talk about fossil inflation and climate inflation, why renewable energy projects are more sensitive to interest rate changes than fossil fuel infrastructure, and why the Green Deal went from mainstream policy to politically toxic in the space of two election cycles. Aurélie also shares what it's like working as an insider in Brussels, why lobbying isn't a dirty word but power imbalances make it dangerous, and why the arguments that work today aren't about saving the planet, they're about sovereignty, security, and competitiveness. —— This podcast is sponsored by Ecologi, the UK's most trusted climate action platform. They help businesses reduce their emissions, restore our planet and report their progress for every step of their climate journey. Check them out here: https://tinyurl.com/kfswnxth —— Find Positive Money at: https://positivemoney.org Follow Positive Money Europe on LinkedIn, Facebook, Bluesky, and TikTok Subscribe to the Climate Unf*cked podcast at https://climateunfucked.substack.com/ And connect with me on LinkedIn at: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rob-coop/ —— Chapters 00:00 Why are we talking about money? 06:30 What is monetary policy? 12:45 What is fossil inflation and climateflation? 18:20 Why raising interest rates makes renewables harder to finance 24:10 Evidence that renewables reduce electricity prices 29:40 The rise and fall of the Green Deal 35:50 Why climate arguments don't work anymore 41:15 The insider/outsider strategy 47:30 How lobbying actually works 54:00 What can you do after this episode?

Check out the UK's most trusted climate action platform, Ecologi at: https://tinyurl.com/kfswnxth Christophe Hodder is the world's first UN-appointed Climate Peace and Security Advisor, working in Somalia, the 5th most climate-vulnerable country on Earth. He's spent six years on the frontlines of where climate breakdown meets armed conflict, helping communities navigate droughts, floods, displacement, and violence in a country that contributes just 0.08% of global emissions but bears some of the heaviest consequences. This conversation goes deep into what climate insecurity actually looks like on the ground: two goat herders fighting over shrinking grazing land, clans feuding over water access, young men with guns caught in cycles of violence made worse by collapsing ecosystems. Christophe explains why climate change doesn't directly cause conflict, but it intensifies every existing tension, and why restoring land, building trust between communities, and creating economic opportunities are all part of the same solution. We also talk about what climate finance pays for when it's done right, how Al-Shabab uses resource control as a weapon, and how the instability happening in Somalia can eventually show up on Britain's doorstep through migration, terrorism, and disrupted global trade. —— This podcast is sponsored by Ecologi, the UK's most trusted climate action platform. They help businesses reduce their emissions, restore our planet and report their progress for every step of their climate journey. Check them out here: https://tinyurl.com/kfswnxth —— Find out more about the UN Climate Security Mechanism and follow Chris on LinkedIn Subscribe to the Climate Unf*cked podcast at https://climateunfucked.substack.com/ And connect with me on LinkedIn at: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rob-coop/ —— Chapters 00:00 What is a Climate Peace and Security Advisor? 04:15 How climate impacts show up as violence on the ground 08:45 Somalia's conflict context and why it matters 13:20 How drought and flooding drive resource competition 18:10 The Mataban project: building trust between clans 24:30 Somalia's first £100 million in climate finance 29:50 How Al-Shabab exploits resource scarcity 35:15 Why half of Somalia's population is under 30 40:20 Kenya vs Somalia: stable ecosystems vs conflict spirals 46:10 What surprised Chris most in six years 51:30 Success stories: from small trials to big programs 56:45 Why this matters to someone in the UK 1:07:10 What Chris wishes more people would ask 1:10:30 Where to learn more and get involved

Check out the UK's most trusted climate action platform, Ecologi at: https://tinyurl.com/kfswnxth General Richard Nugee CB CVO CBE spent 35 years in the British military, rising to the executive committee of defence. He's now one of the most important voices connecting climate change to national security, arguing that the biggest threats to Britain aren't just missiles and tanks, but water scarcity, food system collapse, migration flows, and the geopolitical contests opening up in a melting Arctic. This conversation was recorded twice. The first time was on the day the Iran war started. Given that Richard's expertise sits at the intersection of conflict, energy security, and climate, we decided to re-record a few weeks later to capture how the war has changed the global energy landscape and what it means for the UK's climate and security strategy going forward. We talk about why national security is much more than defence spending, why the Straits of Hormuz closing should terrify anyone who cares about food or fuel, and why building renewable energy isn't just good for the planet, it's one of the smartest military strategies we could deploy. Richard also explains why electric tanks are a stupid idea, why biodiversity loss is the crisis nobody's talking about, and why pragmatic optimism is the only mindset that works when facing a problem this big. —— This podcast is sponsored by Ecologi, the UK's most trusted climate action platform. They help businesses reduce their emissions, restore our planet and report their progress for every step of their climate journey. Check them out here: https://tinyurl.com/kfswnxth —— Subscribe to the Climate Unf*cked podcast at https://climateunfucked.substack.com/ And connect with me on LinkedIn at: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rob-coop/ —— 00:59 Impact of Iran War 05:34 Will the war speed up renewables? 09:18 Africa's hidden fertilizer crisis 12:08 Defence spending vs the green transition 18:52 What national security actually means 20:49 Food, water and energy are already under threat 23:37 The 5 types of climate security 25:35 The Arctic: a new geopolitical battleground 26:58 Migration is where the rubber hits the road 43:49 Biodiversity: the dog that hasn't barked 50:00 Iraq, heat and a military turning point 56:15 How do you make the military care about climate? 1:02:46 The company that proved sustainability is cheaper 1:11:20 Why electric tanks is the wrong question 1:14:45 $250 a litre: fuel cost soldiers' lives 1:19:49 The UK port responsible for 25% of our energy 1:25:54 Pragmatic optimism: the military mindset 1:31:01 "UK is only 2%" — Richard's answer 1:39:20 Hope and opportunity: what to take away

Check out the UK's most trusted climate action platform, Ecologi at: https://tinyurl.com/kfswnxth Dr Simon Clark is a climate YouTuber with 720,000+ subscribers who's spent 15 years translating climate science for audiences who didn't know they needed it. He's a physicist by training, a communicator by choice, and someone who's watched misinformation campaigns evolve from fringe conspiracy theories into sophisticated, well-funded operations that now shape how millions of people understand the climate crisis. This conversation goes deep into why lies are winning, why the truth resists simplicity, and why the platforms we rely on to spread information are fundamentally designed to reward the wrong things. We also talk about what's actually working when it comes to UK climate policy, why Ed Miliband might be the most underrated figure in British politics right now, and why Simon thinks the Iran crisis could be Asia's Ukraine moment for clean energy. We cover: Why climate misinformation is so successful: it's simple, it fits social media, and it tells people what they want to hear The fundamental shift from debunking to pre-bunking, and why signal-boosting bad arguments by responding to them is a trap Why food misinformation has escaped scrutiny in a way fossil fuels haven't, and how Big Tobacco's playbook was inherited by the food industry The conditions that created the misinformation crisis: a deficit in media literacy, platforms designed to reward sensationalism, and billionaires buying up media to control the algorithm Why democratic oversight of discovery algorithms is one of the most important climate conversations we're not having Trojan Horse videos: how Simon packages climate content to look like skeptic material, then pulls the rug two minutes in to reach people outside the choir Why the UK has reduced domestic emissions by over 50% since 1990, and why almost nobody knows that Simon's honest assessment of the UK government's climate policy: energy gets four stars out of five, nature and biodiversity gets two Why Ed Miliband knows his stuff, why carbon capture isn't as stupid as people think, and why the decision not to introduce zonal pricing was actually defensible The Iran crisis as a potential turning point: why this could be Asia's Ukraine moment for renewables, and why it's extraordinary good fortune that the world's largest emitter is also the country building all the clean technology Why Trump might go down in history as the president who accidentally accelerated the energy transition by creating an oil crisis The balance between hope and despair, why Simon hates being asked that question, and why the only way to guarantee we don't make it is by stopping —— This podcast is sponsored by Ecologi, the UK's most trusted climate action platform. They help businesses reduce their emissions, restore our planet and report their progress for every step of their climate journey. Check them out here: https://tinyurl.com/kfswnxth —— Find Simon's work at www.youtube.com/@SimonClark Subscribe to the Climate Unf*cked podcast at https://climateunfucked.substack.com/ And connect with me on LinkedIn at: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rob-coop/ —— Chapters 00:00 Why is climate misinformation so successful? 08:30 How do you tackle it? 15:42 Food misinformation and the Big Tobacco playbook 23:15 What conditions created the misinformation? 32:40 Should algorithms have oversight? 38:20 Using a Trojan Horse to break out the echo chamber 47:15 The UK’s climate wins most people don’t realise 54:30 How well is the UK gov. really doing? 1:06:20 Carbon capture, zonal pricing, and Ed Miliband 1:18:45 The Iran crisis as Asia's Ukraine moment 1:27:30 Why Trump might accidentally accelerate the transition 1:35:10 The hypothetical video with £100,000 1:42:50 Hope, despair, and why stopping guarantees failure

Check out the UK's most trusted climate action platform, Ecologi at: https://tinyurl.com/kfswnxth This is a slightly different ep. The first ½ is a more traditional podcast chat. But the 2nd ½ is me putting Phil to the test by roleplaying as 4 different people: A secondary school teacher, a middle-class retiree, a young professional and a right-wing politician Phil Korbel is the co-founder of the Carbon Literacy Project, a Manchester-based charity that has trained over 153,000 people across 50 countries in climate action. Starting from a shared desk with no salary and a big idea, Phil and his co-founder Dave Coleman have built one of the most powerful climate education movements in the world - reaching everyone from security guards to IPCC scientists, wedding planners to funeral directors. We cover: Why recycling is near the bottom of the list, and what actually moves the needle The Carbon Literacy formula: how does acting on climate help you thrive in your specific role? Why polar bears are banned from Phil's training (and what that says about climate communication) The emotional structure of a carbon literacy day and why doom without agency is dangerous How 153,000 people got trained mostly through word of mouth Why professional advisors - lawyers, accountants, financial advisors - need to understand climate as a core competency The "Burt the security guard" story that perfectly captures what a culture shift actually looks like How to handle a denier in the room without letting them suck up all the oxygen What Phil says to a right-wing politician who thinks clean energy means living in caves Why anger about climate might be your most useful tool - if you channel it right —— This podcast is sponsored by Ecologi, the UK's most trusted climate action platform. They help businesses reduce their emissions, restore our planet and report their progress for every step of their climate journey. Check them out here: https://tinyurl.com/kfswnxth —— Find out more about the Carbon Literacy Project and get trained at carbonliteracy.com —— Chapters 00:00 Why Phil banned polar bears from carbon literacy training 03:30 What is the Carbon Literacy Project? 09:30 Why does ‘relevance’ matter? 12:40 From a shared desk with no salary to 153,000 people trained 15:42 Why they gave away the IP and became a charity 17:44 What caused the hockey stick growth 20:08 Do you work with high-emitting companies? 22:26 How to handle a denier in the room 25:50 Why doom without agency is dangerous 28:41 Phil’s approach to skeptics 37:02 Role-play 1: The secondary school teacher 46:15 Role-play 2: The middle-class retiree 1:00:26 Role-play 3: The young professional 1:09:32 Role-play 4: The right-wing politician 1:11:05 Energy sovereignty, batteries and the Reform mayor who quietly signed up 1:19:36 The 97 engineers on the bridge