Join us on Based Camp today to explore Dignity Village, a self-funded and self-governed community of tiny homes in Portland that has operated successfully for 25 years. We examine its rules, governance structure, shared facilities, and low operating costs compared to city-run alternatives.

Our discussion covers why this model has endured while other attempts failed, key factors for sustainable micro-communities, and practical lessons for building resilient groups amid declining urban services, highlighting membership requirements, dispute resolution, and the importance of exclusivity and clear boundaries.

We hope you enjoy it!

Show Notes

I learned about this from a NY Times article titled The Homeless Community That Became a Self-Governed Village (Portland’s Dignity Village has been a place for people without housing for more than 25 years.).

In this article, journalist Brian Barth explores this growing community; here are some choice quotes:

“One evening a few months ago, the awkward details of a love triangle spilled out in a humble plywood structure next door to a municipal composting facility in Portland, Ore.

The building, known simply as the Commons, serves as the communal kitchen, living room and courtroom of Dignity Village, a community of approximately 60 people living in hand-built tiny homes on the site. All previously homeless, they manage the place on their own — likely the only such community in the country that is not just city-sanctioned, but fully self-funded and self-governed.

The village council had gathered that evening in the cluttered, dimly lit Commons to adjudicate a disagreement between a woman, her boyfriend and an ex. The ex had filed an incident report with the village’s security department which stated that the current boyfriend had been harassing and intimidating him.

The meeting was a curious blend of bureaucracy and bickering friends, much like the village itself — part homeless camp, part homeless services agency. After some debate, a compromise emerged: the ex-boyfriend pledged to stop sending the woman a constant stream of texts and the two men agreed to avoid each other for the foreseeable future. The words of village elders sealed the deal.”

* This sounds a lot more efficient and desirable than a normal court hearing

* If I were living in this community, I’d feel a lot more like there would be people out there, watching over me and making sure rules were enforced

““Welcome to our radical experiment in collective self-empowerment to end homelessness!” exclaims the village manual. Residents are expected to contribute 10 hours of work each week to maintain the village, substance use must be confined to private spaces, and disputes are resolved by an elected council.”

* You can review their entrance agreement and manual preview online

* It includes a medical questionnaire

* Five basic rules (breaking means permanent exclusion)

* “No violence to yourself or others

* No theft

* No public use of intoxicating substances allowed, except cannabis in designated area between the guard shack and computer lab. Responsible use of substances allowed inside personal structures. No inappropriate behavior in public spaces due to substance use. No pushing or sales allowed onsite.

* No constant disruptive behavior

* Everyone must contribute at least 10 hours per week to the operation and maintenance of the Village (unless show proof of school or work to obtain an exception).”

* Shows how they govern

* “Self-governance is the cornerstone of the Village Model. Each member has a vote and is responsible to participate. We are a membership based 501c3 nonprofit community organization providing a shelter program. The Village Council is elected by vote of the membership and responsible for 501c3 nonprofit operations, including election of the Board Officers. The Board Officers consist of the Chair, Vice Chair, Secretary, and Treasurer. Membership may elect no less than 3 or more than 25 councillors to serve a 1 year term. Most decisions require a membership vote (including adoption of new rules) and decisions made by Council may be overturned by a membership vote (except an exclusion for violence). All villagers are solely responsible for attending meetings and requesting minutes to keep up on new rules. Democracy is a core value of Dignity Village.”

* I’ll not get into it, but they also have a “Program Noncompliance & Grievance Procedure” that’s quite detailed

* Hints at what a slice of life is like

* “In the Guard Shack, a telephone and personal message board are provided. Phone and other messages are pinned to this board (meeting notices or other official Village business are posted in the Commons). Code of conduct for the Guard Shack as follows:

* Only the officially appointed mail deliverer or a board officer (Chair, Vice, Secretary, Treasurer) may touch the mail.

* While the phone is in use, no yelling, profanity, or otherwise inappropriate discussions are allowed in the vicinity. People may be making calls to family, children, jobs, courts, donors, etc.

* Phone calls are limited to 10 min unless for official Village business or by special arrangement.

* No leaving guard shack unattended if you are on shift (except doing rounds). Must wait until the next person shows (automatic 7 day out).

* No sleeping on guard shack duty (automatic 7 day out).

* Leave the Guard Shack cleaner than you found it.”

* Doesn’t sound like a terribly pleasant place to live:

* “Portable toilets are provided and serviced twice a week. Do not throw trash, other than toilet paper or paper seat covers, in toilets. Close the lid when you finish to prevent flies from spreading diseases in our food. Use trash containers for trash only, no biohazardous waste such as: needles, urine, feces, or vomit (needle disposal containers are available in the Guard Shack). If you miss the toilet or urinal, do not leave your mess for others to clean up. Disinfectants, bleach, and a hose are available from the Housekeeping Coordinator, if needed. Hand sanitizer is provided in the portable toilets and antibacterial hand soap at the sink. Please use them to prevent the spread of illness”

* “The shower and sink are located next to the portable toilets. Showers are strictly limited to 30 min because there is only 1 shower for 60+ people to share. The water is heated by individual propane tanks, you must provide your own or borrow a propane tank. Day guests may use the shower between 10am to 10pm. Leave the shower in a tidy and sanitary manner after use.”

““Peer support is the best way to lift yourself up,” says Scott Layman, a longtime resident who credits the “familyship” of the village with helping him coexist with the voices in his head, without medication, and recover from alcoholism.”

* Could it be that in earlier ages, schizophrenic people fared better because they were kept in check by tight-knit communities who very actively policed them?

THE COST!

“Representatives of villages attempting self-governance in Portland gather once a month as the Village Federation. At a recent gathering, they welcomed Mitch Green, an economist turned city councilor, whose downtown Portland district includes much of the city’s unhoused population. He was flabbergasted by Dignity Village’s annual operating budget: $60,000, or about $1,000 per person. He said Portland’s city-run tiny home villages cost taxpayers approximately $40,000 per person annually.

“I’m inspired by self-governed villages that center folks who are living in the situation,” he told the federation. Noting that spending on shelter programs was the “biggest driver” of the city’s recent $170 million budget shortfall, Mr. Green said, “I am going to be looking for opportunities to take money away from the city’s shelter system and divert it towards enabling more of this.””

* It seems obvious that cities will turn to this next, then—right?

HOW THEY PAY FOR IT

“The community accepts donations from the public, but much of their operating revenue comes from monthly dues — currently $100 per resident — and microbusinesses such as a landscaping operation and firewood sales. According to the city, taxpayer costs for the project are minimal, mainly for annual safety checks by the fire marshal.”

““What we’re here trying to do is help people, and when we do that, we help ourselves, and everybody rises,” says Mr. Layman. “That’s the theory anyway.””

* What he’s describing is a community in which people are responsible for each other and themselves, which is profoundly more sustainable

* It makes me realize that in modern society, people are often not even expected to be responsible for themselves, let alone random members of their community

“Current infrastructure includes a guard shack, computer lab, communal bathhouse and a greenhouse that doubles as an overnight shelter for people who show up needing relief. The individual tiny homes lack running water, but since 2025 have been powered by roof-mounted photovoltaic panels, a gift from a local solar energy company.”

* This even accounts for the potentiality of key infrastructure faltering—power and electricity not working anymore

* Brian Barth notes that the city didn’t originally want this permanent community to exist; basically a homeless encampment that “settled on city-owned land next to the composting facility, where the government has reluctantly allowed them to remain” and “Under an obscure state law, the city designated the place as an urban campground, allowing some flexibility around building codes.”

THE GOVERNANCE STRUCTURE

““The community’s governance structure eschews hard and fast rules in favor of strategies to maintain community cohesion and well-being. People are expelled only in extreme instances, usually involving violence. Rules meant to keep the place clean, discourage hoarding and prevent fires are enforced to the extent necessary to satisfy the fire marshal and environmental regulators. Transgressions tend to be met with peer pressure, formal incident reports and collective kindness.

“Your peers hold you accountable if you’re slacking or engaging in negative behaviors, which hits a lot different than if a staff member of a traditional shelter nags you or gets you in trouble,” said Victory Lafara, a social worker and longtime advocate for the community. “It means more and actually motivates people to make the changes they need to make.””

* Just as we talk about complex religions collapsing into supersoft religions and folk beliefs, I wonder if this is the natural organic, instinctual way for human communities to form that, while perhaps not capable of building insanely cool things, is nevertheless sustainable.

THE GROWTH TREND

“Tiny home villages for the homeless have spread rapidly across the country in recent years. Like congregate shelters, most have a long list of rules, enforced by nonprofit operators. Consequently, many without housing still reject them in favor of the relative freedom of the street.” … “Numerous unhoused communities across the country have attempted to become permanent and self-governing, but they are typically shut down quickly. Several have emerged in Portland in recent years, including Right to Dream Too and Hazelnut Grove, and while the city has not evicted them, it also hasn’t encouraged the approach.”

* Right to Dream Too: Has a page with video tours

* Hazelnut Grove: Their instagram doesn’t really show what it’s like to live there. Their linktree includes petitions to save it, a link to a previous city hall petition livestream, a press conference, and welcome video

* Resistance is based on a belief that somehow cities will still have working infrastructure: ““The City of Portland does not believe independent villages are scalable, replicable models,” said Alison Perkins, a city spokesperson, noting issues with sanitation, fires and water pollution that “pose life-safety, health, equity and infrastructure issues for both residents of the self-operated shelter and the surrounding community.””

AN ALTERNATE FORMAT, WHICH PORTLAND IS TRYING TO PUSH

“Portland’s formal alternative is a network of seven city-run tiny home communities, called Safe Rest Villages, that are heavily rule-based, with a 120-day limit on length of stay. In contrast, Dignity Village’s lack of time limits draws criticisms from the city [Brian later notes stays range from one to two years, but a higher percentage graduate to permanent housing (around 60%) than those in the city-run communities (around 40%)]. Its [that is, Dignity Village’s] model “generally does not provide in-depth case management and does not prioritize moving individuals into permanent housing,” Ms. Perkins said.”

* BUT IT WORKS BETTER AND COSTS LESS!

* Safe Rest Villages:

* “Jim Hawes, a Dignity Village resident who was previously housed at a Safe Rest Village in Portland, says he was evicted because he had not done enough to procure items like a driver’s license that are necessary to apply for subsidized housing and other benefits. “If you don’t meet all of these milestones that they’ve established, then they kick you out, regardless of whether you were trying or not,” he said.”

* This makes me think of the modern poor houses / debtors prisons depicted in Ready Player One

* “Elana Pirtle-Guiney, the Portland city councilor for the district in which Dignity Village and Right to Dream Too are located, sees the self-governed and city-governed models as complementary.”

ANOTHER ALTERNATE FORMAT: SELF-GOVERNED COMMUNITIES RUN BY NONPROFITS WITH BOARDS OF HOUSED, NON-RESIDENTS

“Mr. Heben helped spearhead a community called Opportunity Village in Eugene, Ore., which was modeled on Dignity Village. He also cofounded a likeminded venture called SquareOne Villages. Unlike Dignity Village, whose founders created a nonprofit of their own, Opportunity Village’s associated nonprofit is run by an external board of directors — housed residents who support an elected council of village residents who oversee daily operations.

“You visit these camps and you see all these positive elements of self-organizing, direct democracy and mutual aid, but they’re also far from ideal living situations,” Mr. Heben said. “As soon as you try to formalize them there needs to be some top-down rules.””

* I feel less confident about these, but maybe they’re more like the villages that attended the seat of landed gentry?

A DARK SLICE OF LIFE IN THE VILLAGE AND THE TENSION

“The tension between the independence Dignity Village’s residents credit for the community’s success and the city’s disapproval of its anarchic atmosphere hung over the Dignity Village Council meeting. The aroma of decomposing waste penetrated the walls from the compost facility next door, along with the occasional roar of a jet taking off, as the group trudged through the agenda items — bills to be paid, policies for evicting vicious dogs and the delicate work of resolving a love triangle’s domestic disputes. Village elders issued ardent reminders to keep trash from accumulating and to remain vigilant about fire risks, lest the city pull the plug on their 25-year experiment.

Ray Stanczak, a 76-year-old resident, spoke to the perennial paradox the community faces: they may feel like their model trumps the city’s, but they sit on city-owned land. “I don’t think they’re going to shut us down,” he said. “But they might try to run us.””

Why is this working and CHOP/CHAZ wasn’t? (Key Lessons)

* CHOP/CHAZ occupied inhabited land whereas Dignity Village settled in vacant land next to a composting plant that nobody wanted (it actively stinks, lacks plumbing, etc.)

* KEY LESSON: You can’t settle on land people want

* Dignity Village was created by people who genuinely needed a place to live and had few other choices, whereas CHOP/CHAZ was occupied by protesters

* KEY LESSON: Future communities won’t be fun larps; they’ll be products of necessity (looking at you, Praxis—important for planning)

* Dignity Village has low traffic: You need to see a guard in order to enter and sign in, whereas CHOP/CHAZ had rapid churn of people/visitors coming in and out

* KEY LESSON: The sustainable communities of the future will be gated, even when they’re not elite/expensive

* From the Dignity Village manual:

* “All guests/visitors are subject to review by the Village Intake Committee.”

* “Visitors for a villager must be escorted by security to the Commons room. Security will then get the villager. For safety reasons (domestic violence, stalking, vendettas, etc.), security must not escort a visitor directly to a villager’s structure.”

* “Outside the Common Area, visitors must be escorted at all times. Only a member may escort a visitor outside the Common Area. Exception is made when actively doing work for the Village.”

* “Only Members in good standing may have overnight guests”

* Dignity Village has clear governance, rules, and expectations—there are membership expectations, work requirements, intake, resident governance, discipline—meanwhile CHOP/CHAZ had only fragmented ability to enforce loose norms

* KEY LESSON: Being a member of a sustainable community will be like having an additional part-time job

* Makes me feel like Latter-Day Saints are going to fare quite well

* Dignity Village managed to patch together Conditional permission/use arrangements and nonprofit/legal capacity

* KEY LESSON: It’s better to find a plausibly legal way to enter an arrangement with whatever entity “technically” governs the area

Also, what on earth is up with the pacific northwest?

Episode Transcript

Simone Collins:this is a very postapocalyptic friendly village. I’m into it.

Malcolm Collins:Outside It’s in Portland.

Simone Collins:I know.

Malcolm Collins:Because they’ve already destroyed their city. Well, we’re going to see little islands of things working as progressives end up bringing cities to a state where the culture within the city is just not continuing not functional.

Simone Collins:As William Gibson said, the future is here. It is just not evenly distributed. Hello, Malcolm. I’m very excited to be speaking with you today because this morning, I think I stumbled upon a model city of the future. And it’s not some high-tech enclave in Tokyo or Singapore. It is a homeless community in Portland established in 2001. Wait.

Malcolm Collins:And Portland. Some woke homeless encampment you think is a model for future

Simone Collins:This is the future. The future.

Speaker 5:Eric Cartman? The kid who jumped 30 homeless people on a skateboard?

Speaker 4:You heard about that? They said you could have easily cleared 50 homeless with that jump. 30 was hard enough. Oh, god.

Simone Collins:It has Are

Malcolm Collins:we gonna get into homeless fights? Because I want that. I want a better understanding of how to fight my homeless.

Simone Collins:You’ll see. They they they govern these things. You’ll you’ll see. They live in hand built tiny homes. They use a central building called the Commons as a shared kitchen, community space, and de facto courtroom because they’re self governing, and they are also self funded. They are not funded by the city. And the city of Port Portland has fully sanctioned it. And Wait. So they’re

Malcolm Collins:homeless, but they’re self funded. Are they funded from things that the members are making or, like, an extra rule?

Simone Collins:Member dues, dude. You gotta pay. This is an elite.

Malcolm Collins:This is an elite Farming the homeless.

Simone Collins:Homeless community. We need

Malcolm Collins:a homeless farm here, Simone.

Speaker 10:California did not do the homeland. California, y’all, super cool to the homeland.

Malcolm Collins:Are you going to teach us how to farm the homeless?

Simone Collins:They they are they’re the elite. The elite. They’re elite. Oh my god. They’re elite. Elite. It has happened. The prophecy

Speaker 6:Let me show you. Derek Leith. It is the fashion, the way of life inspired by the very homeless, the vagrants, the the crack w****s that make this wonderful city so unique.

Simone Collins:. amazing. But it it’s actually kind of important to to look at this community because as cities begin to lose their capacity to maintain police forces and infrastructure and other basic services, we should expect to see more fully sanctioned self governing communities. So it’s, I think, important for us to look at what this is like.

Malcolm Collins:And also Just to elaborate on what she’s saying here, if we look at current trends, especially with ultra progressive cities, so Portland’s gonna be the first place that needs

Simone Collins:There’s a reason. Oh my gosh. As I go through this, you’re gonna be shocked by, like, dimensions of all the other self governing and then alternate homeless kid encampments. And I’m like, well, are you okay, Pacific Northwest? Like, what is happening? There shouldn’t be, like, the the 15 alternative homeless encamp like, anyway, carry on.

Malcolm Collins:Yes. Anyway, so the police just can’t act anymore in a lot of places. Yeah. And we’re increasingly seeing this. You know, if you watch any of these clip channels or anything like that, you see people just going out, breaking the law. The famous clip recently of the guy talking to The UK police officer

Simone Collins:What do want me to do about He’s breaking law, and

Malcolm Collins:she’s like, what do you want me to do about it? I’m the police officer

Speaker 8:He’s breaking the law right now.

Speaker 9:The What I supposed

Speaker 8:He’s to do?

Malcolm Collins:. so we have an increasing breakdown of police forces. We have a breakdown of the financial feasibility of cities as the population gets older and more and more money goes into, you know, people who are not putting money back into the tax system. And then on top of that, you also have the cities becoming more aggressive in the way they spend. Look at the Zohar Mundami stuff. Look at what we’re seeing in in these woke cities. And so the idea is is that eventually we are going to need self organizing micro communities for any semblance of civilization moving forwards. And a lot of people expect these to start with the ultra rich and then go down. Right? Like, the ultra rich are gonna have their gated communities, but that’s not necessarily the case. I mean, many of the ultra richest communities are some of the wokest, most infighty, most communities on Earth. I mean, imagine having a

Simone Collins:Many of them will fall apart more quickly. It has to be more of the resilience of it. Now that’s one of the reasons why I was interested in this one because, again, founded in 2001, it is 25 years old. Wow. Yeah. That’s the thing is this this is again, it’s a flagship elite homeless community. It is is actually very impressive. And you absolutely some pictures of it? Yeah. I I I I provided some for the class. So this is the entrance of the beautiful flagship village. it is called Dignity Village. You can see these, like, homemade tiny houses. This is their guard building where you have to check-in if if you wanna come in. You can kinda see how it is it looks kind of like a a you if you squint your eyes and can’t see the detail well, you might think it’s like a campground entrance building, bit rustic looking. You know? But then you look more closely, and you could see how, like, the woods falling apart in some places. It was clearly made with found materials and donated materials. There’s weird stuff hanging from it.

Malcolm Collins:So homeless people self organize this?

Simone Collins:Yeah. Yeah. I’m gonna go through the whole backstory. I see there’s a donated couch on it, but it has a wheelchair ramp. It’s accessible. here’s their their bathroom and shower area. They don’t have plumbing, keep in mind. So everything has to be brought in. You know, this is again, this is a radically independent community. And, of course, that’s what’s gonna fall apart when everything goes to crap. Right? Like, there will be no electricity. There will be no plumbing. Okay. Hold on. I’m gonna stop sharing my screen. Stop. Stop. Okay. But yeah. So as you can see, it’s real. It is organized. People go and they’ll do tours. And so we’re gonna learn more about this community. We’re also at the end gonna analyze why this community has survived for twenty five years, whereas other attempts, obviously, including the high profile chop chess also in the Pacific Northwest, what is wrong with you people, has failed so rapidly. And then I I actually have some takeaways that can help us personally prepare for when we and our our children have to join self governing communities ourselves because it’s only a matter of time, Malcolm. Either our days are numbered. Anyway, I learned about this from this New York Times article called the homeless community that became a self governed village. Portland’s Dignity Village has been a place for people without housing for more than twenty five years. I mean, in this article, journalist Brian Barth explores this growing community, and here’s here’s how he opens it. One evening, a few months ago, the awkward details of a love triangle spilled out in a humble plywood structure next door to a municipal composting facility in Portland, Oregon. The building, known simply as The Commons, serves as the communal kitchen, living room, and courtroom of Dignity Village, a community approximately 60 people living in hand built tiny homes on the site. All previously homeless, they managed the place on their own. Likely, the only such community in the country that is not just city sanctioned, but fully self funded and self governed. The village council had gathered that evening in the cluttered dimly lit commons to adjudicate a disagreement between a woman, her boyfriend, and an ex. The ex had filed an incident report with the village’s security department, which had stated that the current boyfriend had been harassing and intimidating them. The meeting was a curious blend of bureaucracy and bickering friends, much like the village itself, part homeless camp, part homeless services agency. After some debate, a compromise emerged. The ex boyfriend pledged to stop sending the woman a constant stream of texts, and the two men agreed to avoid each other for the foreseeable future. The words of village elders seal the deal. And, yes, they are referred to technically and in the handbook, which I did read as village elders. So the weird thing is hearing about this, honestly, Malcolm, this sounds a lot more efficient and desirable than a normal court hearing. Like, in in a in a normal city, if you and your your your partner are being harassed by an ex, like, what do you do? You have to go to the police department, file a

Speaker 3:restraining order.

Malcolm Collins:Why we did that last video about, like, the sovereign citizen courts and stuff like that is eventually we’re gonna need something like this.

Simone Collins:And it’s kind of better than what we have now already, which is kind of crazy. Right? Because there are people always who are are violating restraining orders or you can’t even get one or the paperwork gets lost. And here, everyone knows each other. Everyone’s like, dude, if they if they see the guy violating it, he’s out. You know? Everyone has eyes on him. It’s like it’s like a it’s a surveillance state with high-tech except not really because everything’s biological. Super interesting to me. but, anyway, if I were living in this community or a community that was governed like this, I would feel a lot more like there would be people out there watching over me and making sure that the rules were enforced than literally the community we live in now, which is crazy. anyway, continuing from the article. Welcome to our radical experiment in collective self empowerment to end homelessness, exclaims the village manual. Residents are expected to contribute ten hours of work each week to maintain the village. Substance use must be confined to private spaces, and disputes are resolved by an elected council. And I linked in the show notes, are on Patreon and Substack, to their full entrance agreement and manual preview online. It includes a medical questionnaire. Like, they’re really watching out for you. They wanna know your food allergies. They wanna know what meds you’re taking. They wanna know your primary care physician. Like, they it it’s crazy. Like, I feel like we filled out less paperwork to put our kids at daycare. It’s so wild. and here are their five basic rules to kind of give you a picture of what they’re asking of their members. So one, no violence to yourself or others. Think that to yourself part is really cool. They they really care about the people there. Two, no theft. Three, no public use of intoxicating substances allowed except cannabis in designated areas between the guard shack and the computer lab. Responsible use of substances allowed inside personnel personal structures. No inappropriate behavior in public spaces due to substance use. No pushing or sales allowed on-site. I think that’s so interesting. This example of what apparently sustainable governance is around basically free use of drugs. So, like, if The US were to theoretically enforce rules like these, maybe it would kinda kinda work out. I don’t know. I I just find that really interesting. I don’t know they’re saying no hard drugs.

Malcolm Collins:Well, I mean, the drug fighting the cartels is a real issue, and you could remove them if you industrialize the process.

Simone Collins:Yeah. That’s the thing. And, also, there would be far fewer overdose deaths because people would know the dosage. And, also, I think there would just be fewer incidents in general. Like, there was someone adjacent to our general world who recently got in a car accident then tested positive for drugs. Turns out he was on fentanyl. He didn’t think he was taking fentanyl. He thought he thought was taking something totally different, but it was illegal. And so, of course, there was fentanyl in it. So, like, I’m just saying. I Oh. Will tell you offline. Not not anyone directly in our circle. We’re we’re talking

Malcolm Collins:Okay.

Simone Collins:At a remove. Okay? Anyway, let’s see. Number four, no constant disruptive behavior. I also like that. It could be intermittent disruptive behavior. They’re not asking for the world here. And then five, everyone must contribute at least ten hours per week to the operation and maintenance of the village unless show proof of school or work to obtain an exception. I will say that there are lots of grammatical errors in this. They do not use AI for spell check or anything like that. And it kinda makes it feel more genuine, which I I super dig. I didn’t include this in the photos that I showed, but in the New York Times article about this place, they they literally like, they include a picture of the manual that’s sitting in the commons, and that thing is filthy. That binder has seen some, like, serious action. I I don’t know. Did they

Malcolm Collins:have, like, diagrams in it or something? Or

Simone Collins:No. There are no diagrams. They just had a binder of the printed out rules that you can also read online and are linked in the show notes. there are some other parts of the of the manual that I read that I thought were interesting because it gives you a picture on how they govern. They write self governance is the cornerstone of the village model. Each member has a vote and is responsible to participate. We are a membership based five zero one c three nonprofit community organization providing a shelter program. The village council is is elected by vote of the membership and responsible for five zero one c three nonprofit operations, including election of the board of officers. The board of officers consist of the chair, vice chair, secretary, and treasurer. Membership may select no less than three or more than 25 counselors to serve a one year term. Keep in mind, this is a total of, like, 60 people. Yep. Most decisions require a membership vote, including adoption of new rules, and decisions made by council may be overturned by membership vote except an exclusion for violence. All villagers are solely responsible for attending meetings and requesting minutes to keep up on new rules. Democracy is a core value of Dignity Village. And I’ll get into it, but they also have a program noncompliance and grievance procedure that’s also quite detailed. Or, I mean, I won’t get into it. I wanted to get into it, but then I I it got too detailed. But, anyway, like, they’re very ready for all of this, and the elders will will rule, over your personal squabbles if they have to. They also give you a hint at the slice of life there just to not glorify it, you know, in case you’re getting too excited about moving into this flagship city of the future. In the Guard Shack, a telephone and personal message board are provided. Phone and other messages are pinned to this board. Meeting notices or other official village business are posted in the comments. Code of conduct for the Guard Shack as follows. Only the officially appointed mail deliverer or board officer, chair, vice secretary, treasurer may touch the mail. So they have someone who’s their mail person. Like, the mail truck will, like, drop it off at the guardhouse and, like, slowly back away. But then, like, the person who’s responsible for the mail will go through this 60 person village and deliver the mail to every tiny house, which is kinda cool. Okay? While the phone is in use, no yelling, profanity, or otherwise inappropriate discussions are allowed. In the vicinity, people may be making calls to family, children, jobs, courts, donors, etcetera. Courts. Which is interesting. Like, someone high off their mind or something, like, yelling in the corner while you’re, like, trying to be on on the one landline to the court. Phone calls are limited to ten minutes unless official village business or by special arrangement, which is also interesting because it’s like people all sharing this phone number in this village. I I could imagine in the future, like, everyone trying to share, like, a three d printer or, you know, an Internet connection or,

Malcolm Collins:like, access AI tickets. Other jobs.

Simone Collins:You know? They can they can

Malcolm Collins:live in these camps, and we’ll live in the AI Fortress. Yeah.

Simone Collins:I mean, we’ll see. no leaving guard shack unattended if you are on shift except doing rounds. Must wait until the next person shows. Automatic seven day out. I didn’t find out what a seven day out was.

Malcolm Collins:I didn’t look that up yet.

Simone Collins:no sleeping on guard shack duty. Automatic seven day out. What is seven day out? You get kicked out of the village for some of those? leave the guard shack cleaner than you found it. Very classic campsite rule, as you know. And then here’s how they describe the bathroom situation because I was also very curious about that seeing as they don’t have

Malcolm Collins:name of this community? I’ll look up what seven day out means.

Simone Collins:Oh, thank you. I’ll just send you a link to their rule book, and then you can use your browser to ask AI questions about it. I I I was actually just I was enthralled, Malcolm. I was enthralled in reading it, and I didn’t wanna stop because but then I had to because I have work to do, people to take care of. It’s horrible. It’s horrible. Okay. Bathroom situation. Here we go. Portable toilets are provided and serviced twice a week. Do not throw trash other than toilet paper or paper seat covers in toilets. Close the lid when you finish to prevent flies from spreading diseases in our food. I don’t know.

Malcolm Collins:Wait. Do they share food? Do they do communal meals?

Simone Collins:Yes. They all cook in the same kitchen. Use trash containers for trash only. No bio biohazardous waste such as needles, urine, feces, or vomit. Needle disposal containers are available on the guard check. If you miss the toilet or urinal, do not leave your mess for others to clean up. Disinfectants, bleach, and a hose are available from the housekeeping coordinator if needed. Hand sanitizer is provided in the portable toilets and antibacterial hand soap at the sink. Please use them to prevent the spread of illness. The shower and sink are located next to the portable toilets. I’m sure it smells great. showers are strictly limited.

Malcolm Collins:A seven day out means they expel you from

Simone Collins:the village for seven days. Oh, shunned. Shunned. I thought so. Okay. Great.

Malcolm Collins:I guess while you’re homeless, like, yeah, it’s not so bad. Because I was like, how do they where do you live? And it’s like, well, they’re homeless anyway. So

Simone Collins:Yeah. But, like, y’all, your stuff’s there. It’s it’s tough. You know? It’s tough.

Malcolm Collins:And a normal outage is being kicked out for twenty four hours.

Simone Collins:Okay. Fair enough. Yeah. You gotta wander the streets, busk a little, I guess, from wealthy tech workers. Showers are strictly limited to thirty minutes because there’s only one shower for 60 plus people to share. The water is heated by individual propane tanks. You must provide your own or borrow a propane tank. Day guests may use the shower between 10AM to 10PM, leave the shower in a tidy and sanitary manner after use. Isn’t that interesting that you have to so the the way they do hot showers

Malcolm Collins:Okay.

Simone Collins:Actually need a hot shower is you bring your own propane tank. Isn’t that fascinating?

Malcolm Collins:Yep. That is interesting.

Simone Collins:Yeah. I’m just trying to think of how it’s gonna play out in the end times. Okay? I’m just I’m trying to get ready for it. I’m stealing my mind.

Malcolm Collins:Okay. Hold on. I’ll do I’ll do a screen share because I found better pictures than you did. Oh, you said?

Simone Collins:Okay. Okay. Let’s do it. Give me a show. Give me a show.

Malcolm Collins:Alright. So you can see let’s go let’s go to the top here. You can see some of the different buildings here. Right?

Simone Collins:So that’s I mean, like, when you squint, it looks really nice.

Malcolm Collins:And then you realize there’s a bunch of junk taped together.

Simone Collins:Yeah. But when you squint and, when you squint, oh, it looks like like a normal neighborhood.

Malcolm Collins:Oh, this looks like Telluride. I’m gonna be honest. For

Simone Collins:those unaware, as I was before I met Malcolm, Telluride is one of the most expensive places in the entire world, most elite and limited places. It feels like if you see But it’s got

Malcolm Collins:a bunch of ski bums that sometimes live in shacks.

Simone Collins:Everyone is incredibly wealthy there. It feels like the the show Eureka. I think this really brilliant.

Malcolm Collins:Yeah. It really shows well, like, what it it looks like to live there, like, getting it in profile.

Simone Collins:Yeah. Like, a lot of shacks on on what appears to maybe be a parking lot. Yeah. They paved an area.

Malcolm Collins:Piece of of of paved in. Yeah. And then the you can see what’s interesting is is the people don’t look they look kinda young a lot of them do. I guess there’s some old Some

Simone Collins:of them are young. Yeah. Some are young.

Malcolm Collins:Some are young and some are older. Yeah. Village elders. Village elders. Then we have another one there. And then we’ve had, like, a little picture of what it’s meant to look like, which is

Simone Collins:I like it. I like it. Okay. Of course, keep in mind, it’s it’s surrounded by the the composting plant. That’s

Malcolm Collins:It is surrounded by a composting plant?

Simone Collins:Yeah. Don’t smell good. Okay? Look. They got it because no one no one wanted to be on this government light. That’s where I wanna put my homeless.

Malcolm Collins:Oh. Next to comp this is the great thing to do with the homeless. And then the ones you put out, you put them in radical games for their life. I think that’s, you know, the tubes. Right? That’s what those

Simone Collins:are for. The tubes. People would love the tube. The tubes would be, like, stuffed full of rich people. There were livestreams.

Malcolm Collins:There were so many it would be, by the way. Yeah. It’s such a great way to get

Simone Collins:rid the really would be.

Malcolm Collins:For people who don’t know the tubes, the tubes is this concept that, like Someone someone made an AI video that they posted to x. And I’ll put the video here so

Speaker 3:you need to that wait. You could expect from AI. It’s gonna be sick. They’re gonna do these terrible things to poor people.

Simone Collins:And it’s like, no, bro. Like, this is gonna be

Malcolm Collins:We as a civilization have been waiting for this since the eighties. Poor people game shows to survive. We look back to the Roman gladiators with pride.

Simone Collins:I think here’s the thing, though. Our sons looked at the tubes and were like, how do I get how do I sign up for this? How do I do the tubes?

Malcolm Collins:How do I get in the tubes?

Simone Collins:No one wants to be outside the tubes. They wanna be in the tubes.

Malcolm Collins:They wanna go in the tubes. It’s so bad. Stick them in the tubes.

Simone Collins:Stick them in the tubes. Unrelated note, this generation, including our children, literally just you know, how, like, birds some parrots will, like, make the sounds of their of their owners or whatever, or they’re, like, songbirds will pick up the sounds of construction? Yeah. Our children have picked up the sounds of memes that people put into their YouTube videos. Like, Octavia this morning was like and then I’d be like, oh my god, bra. And then he’s like, bra.

Malcolm Collins:And, like Oh my god, bra.

Simone Collins:Oh my and you know that. Oh my god. What the hell? And, yeah, he’s like he has it down. Like, one of those songbirds that, like, learns how to, like

Malcolm Collins:No.

Simone Collins:That’s the type of thing that

Speaker 3:gets you

Malcolm Collins:ask me, Simone. You’re gonna be able to drop that in front of the girls, and they’re like

Simone Collins:It’s He’ll do fine.

Malcolm Collins:Talk like the meme shows. He starts his YouTube or he starts his Twitter, and he just rolls off with the

Simone Collins:He’ll save so much editing time. He doesn’t even have to, like, insert the sound bite. Anyway, I just had to like, I had this realization this morning when he did it again, and I’m like, oh, boy. We live at a time. anyway, back to the New York Times article. Quote, peer support is the best way to to lift yourself up, says Scott Lehman, a longtime resident who credits the family ship of the village with helping him coexist with the voices in his head without medication and recover from alcoholism, which I thought to be super important because it it’s maybe could it be that schizophrenia wasn’t as big of a deal in the past if you lived in a village where everyone knew you, knew you were that dude with voices in his head and was like, Carl, knock it off. You know? Like, no one cares. Like, is it could it be that it’s only in modern cities where you could just be forgotten and left behind that the voices in your head ultimately get credence because no one else talks to you?

Malcolm Collins:Maybe. I don’t know why I like that theory.

Simone Collins:I thought that was really interesting. He’s he’s making it he’s making it work. He’s both an alcoholic and a schizophrenic in this village. He hasn’t killed anyone yet. Anyway, let’s talk about the cost. Also continuing from the article, representatives of villages attempting self governance in Portland, again, villages, what on earth, gather once a month as at the village federation. Okay. So there’s enough homeless encampments that are trying to self govern that there is a federation that meets not annually, not quarterly, but monthly. But, anyway, I continue. At a recent gathering, they welcomed Mitch Green, an economist turned city councilor whose Downtown Portland district includes much of the city’s unhoused population. He was flabbergasted by Dignity Village’s annual operating budget, $60,000 or about 1,000 per person. He said Portland’s city run tiny homes village villages cost taxpayers approximately $40,000 per person annually. Wait. He said that their city? City pays $40,000 per person annually. Dignity Village pays $1,000 per person annually. Technically, their per month fees are a $100, but they’re probably making less than that for people who, like, you know, can’t make rent, sob story. They get a month off or whatever.

Malcolm Collins:You know I mean? You know how it is when you’re dealing with these sorts of people. But that that okay. That is interesting. So it’s a thousand dollars a year for them, and for the city, it’s 40,000 a year. That is I mean, that really shows how well you can do this when you cut out all of the middle NGOs.

Simone Collins:Yeah. Well and people, they’re not invested in those. They’re not known as people.

Malcolm Collins:It’s not even actually 1,000 a year because they’re paying that money themselves.

Speaker 3:Yeah.

Simone Collins:So that’s literally cost it. It’s just he’s just looking at it from an overall cost perspective. Like, what does it cost to help these people? And then he’s looking, well, like, this one, every every person costs $40,000.

Malcolm Collins:Willing to let homeless people just starve if they don’t do put something in. Right? Like, that’s what this community is willing to do.

Simone Collins:Right? Also notable, though, is this community, these are people who chose the $1,000 per person community over whatever it was that would’ve

Malcolm Collins:That the city was putting on the $40,000. Yeah.

Simone Collins:So the value to the resident was higher than whatever Portland was offering, and it cost them. So what is going on with that $40,000? Anyway, I continue. I’m inspired by self governed villages that center folks who are living in a situation, he told the federation, noting that spending on shelter programs was, quote, the biggest driver of the city’s recent 170,000,000 budget shortfall. Mister Green said, I’m going to be looking for opportunities to take money away from the city’s shelter system and divert it towards enabling more of this. Hearing this, I feel like it again, this is why I’m saying this is so obvious to you. A lot of professional activists. I hope so. I mean, look. They’re not long for this world. The cities, literally, you can’t, as a city, maintain a budget shortfall year after year when you haven’t even been hit by demographic collapse yet. And keep in mind, like, these homeless people aren’t having kids, and no one else in Portland is having kids. and, literally, Dignity Village has no kids. It’s against the rules for a minor to be the resident of the village. So, again, no. They’re not having kids. Anyway, the way that they pay for it, just to be clear, I’m reading from a different part of the article. The community accepts donations from the public, but much of their operating revenue comes from monthly dues, currently 100 per resident. And micro businesses such as a landscaping operation and firewood sales. According to the city, taxpayer costs for the project are minimal, mainly for annual safety checks by the fire marshal. So once a year, some dude from the fire department stops by and is like, hey. Can you, I don’t know, like, put a fire extinguisher here? Like and then he leaves. And the city’s like, That’s it? That that’s our yeah. Somehow that’s a cost. That’s not a cost. The fire marshal’s salary is a a fixed cost. How did how did I get how do you even say that’s a cost anyway? I I’ve had it with these cities. Continuing again from the article. What we’re here trying to do is help people. And when we do that, we help ourselves, and everybody rises, says mister Lehman. That’s the theory anyway. And what he’s describing to me and why I wanted to read that part is this is a community in which people are responsible for each other and themselves, which is profoundly more sustainable than whatever is going on outside this this village. And then when I thought about that more, I realized in our modern society, people aren’t even really considered responsible for themselves. Yeah. Well, I

Malcolm Collins:mean, you couldn’t get a self organization like this from a group of far progressives. Like, every time they try to set up one of those commune cities or something like this, they all turn on each other within, like, the first week.

Simone Collins:Well, god forbid they help someone else because, oh, my POTS is acting up again. I can’t. I have to attend my therapy session.

Malcolm Collins:I have to No. But it’s it’s very much like, oh, I have a whatever. I need you to handle everything, and then you get the leeches in the community, and you get the and the leeches always feel like they’re being victimized, and then the struggle sessions and the blah blah blah blah blah. And, like, it ends up choking, you know, if you accept any of them into the community, which is why I understand they have to do, you know, such egregious vetting. It destroys the possibility of doing something like this. But we’ve built a society where we forget truly or we’ve made it impossible to truly let these people fail.

Simone Collins:Totally. It’s it’s crazy. Okay. Also from the article, current infrastructure includes a guard shack, computer lab, communal bathhouse, and a greenhouse that doubles as an overnight shelter for people who show up needing relief. The individual tiny homes lack running water, but since 2025 have been powered by roof mounted photovoltaic panels, a gift from a local solar energy company, which is cool with them. and this even accounts for the potentiality of key infrastructure failing, which is another reason why I wanted to talk about this because a big thing that we cannot expect from many cities and towns is working plumbing and electricity. Keep in mind, and this is something we’ve talked about in other episodes, that many cities were built as, like, sort of private equity projects where someone fronted the money to put in the all this basic infrastructure, the roads, the sewers, etcetera. And then the cities came in and, like, the houses were sold and the land was sold and then these cities exist. But they’ve they’ve now found out, oh, wow. We now have to completely replace the cheaply made plumbing. It’s not gonna work soon, but they don’t have they literally don’t have the money to replace it. So this is more of a a serious issue than I think people are aware of. And you can go to what is it called? Strong Towns? The Strong Towns Movement to look like, learn more about these issues. But, anyway, Brian Barth notes that the city didn’t originally want this permanent community to exist like the city of Portland. But, basically, what happened is there was this homeless encampment that, quote, settled on city owned land next to the composting facility where the government has reluctantly allowed them to remain. And, quote, under an obscure state law, the city designated the place as an urban campground allowing some flexibility around building codes. So, basically, to keep the bureaucrats at bay, they’re like, oh, well, I guess, we’ll just call it a campground, and it’s okay. And, like, that’s interesting. I think that’s interesting. It’s important. It’s gonna it’s gonna become important to, like, the final section of this discussion where I talk about the lessons you can take away from sustainable self governing cities going forward. Anyway, about the governing structure, quote, the community’s governance structure issues hard and fast rules in favor of strategies to maintain community cohesion and well-being. People are expected or sorry. People are expelled only in extreme instances, usually involving violence. Rules meant to keep the place clean, discourage hoarding, and prevent fires are enforced to the extent necessary to satisfy the fire marshal and environmental regulators. Transgressors tend to be met with peer pressure, formal incident reports, and collective kindness. Your peers hold you accountable if you’re slacking or engaging in negative behaviors, which hits a lot a lot different than if a staff member of a traditional shelter nags you or gets you in trouble, said Victory LaFarra, a social worker and longtime advocate for the community. It means more and actually motivates people to make the changes they need to make. and just as we talk about complex religions collapsing into super soft religions and folk beliefs, Malcolm, I I feel like this might be the natural organic instinctual way human communities form when there’s nothing else. Like, it’s not capable of building insanely cool things on a governing or societal level, but this kind of tight knit community where everyone knows each other and and just enforces norms does seem to be something that’s eminently sustainable, if not something that’s powerful to do anything beyond survive? What do you think?

Malcolm Collins:Sorry. Explain the question again.

Simone Collins:You created in the Pragmatist Guide to Crafting Religion this concept of super soft religion. Culture. Kind of

Malcolm Collins:like Yeah.

Simone Collins:What what shows up in the complete absence of a religion. Right? I think what we’re seeing here is the concept of super soft governance, which is a tight knit small community where everyone just kind of enforces norms, and it somehow functions. It’s not gonna do great things, but it’s gonna enable survival. Is that kind of what you’re seeing here too?

Malcolm Collins:I mean, not really. I think what we’re seeing here is the benefits of in high exclusivity community, which is functionally what this is. Yeah. And we see even if you’re dealing with the lowest pool in the worst circumstances, if you are high exclusivity, you can make society work. The the key to a society working is who you keep out, not necessarily having the best starting stock to begin with.

Simone Collins:That’s a really good point that exclusion is the key to sustainability and something thriving, and yet it’s so demonized. But

Malcolm Collins:But being able to tell people, no. Not you is what’s necessary to make this work.

Simone Collins:Yeah. And to, like, be very strict about kicking people out. Okay. Okay. This is let let’s talk about how this is catching on, how people are really excited about this concept From the article, tiny home villages for the homeless have spread rapidly across the country in recent years. many without housing still reject them in favor of the relative freedom of the street. Numerous unhoused communities across the country have attempted to become permanent and self governing, but they are typically shut down quickly. Several have emerged in Portland in recent years, including Right to Dream two and Hazelnut Grove. And while the city has not evicted them, it also hasn’t encouraged the approach. I checked out Right to Dream two, and that’s t o o. It has a page with video tours. I didn’t check them out. I don’t like, it didn’t look as good. It didn’t look like it was actually a thing. And then Hazelnut Grove has just an Instagram that doesn’t really show much, like, there’s even anything there. I don’t even know if it’s a real like, if it exists anymore. And then they have a link tree that goes to petitions and old defunct livestream things, and so I think they just kind of failed. The like, they tried and they failed. Resistance is based on a belief that somehow cities will have a working infrastructure. Like, when when you read from the article, you’re you’ll see it super clear. The city of Portland does not believe independent villages are scalable, replicable replicable models, said Allison Perkins, a city spokesperson, noting issues with sanitation, fires, and water pollution that pose a life safety and health and equity infrastructure issues for both residents of the self operated shelter and the surrounding community, end quote. The important thing again, she thinks these things are gonna keep working in her city. and I know this isn’t like, she’s discussing this just for homeless people and just now. It’s just that in the future, cities aren’t gonna be able to make that argument. They’re not gonna be like, oh, this self governing city. Like, they don’t because they’re not gonna be providing water to anyone at that point. Anyway, here’s an alternate format which Portland is trying to push. Quote, Portland’s formal alternative is a network of seven city run tiny home communities called safe rest villages that are heavily rule based with a one hundred and twenty day limit on length of stay. In contrast, Dignity Village’s lack of time limits draws criticisms from the city. Brian, the author, later notes that stays range from one to two years, but a higher percentage graduate from them, sixty percent, than those in the city run communities. So around forty percent of people who stay in the city run tiny home communities actually make it out to permanent housing. 60% leave didn’t Dignity Village for it. Anyway, it’s that is Dignity Village’s model generally

Speaker 3:does

Simone Collins:not does not provide in-depth case management and does not prioritize moving individuals into permanent housing, miss Perkins said. But it clearly works better and cost less. So this is just insane. $40,000 per person, and they can’t even get people into safe housing. It’s ridiculous. Yeah. Anyway, about safe rest villages. Jim Hawes, a Dignity Village resident who was previously housed at a safe rest village in Portland, says he was evicted because he had not done enough to procure items like a driver’s license that are necessary to apply for subsidized housing and other benefits. Quote, if you don’t meet all these milestones they’ve established, then they kick you out regardless of whether you were trying or not, he said, which makes me think of modern poor houses and debtors’ prisons that are depicted in Ready Player One. Do you remember them, Malcolm? Like, if you were indebted to the big company, you had to, like, live in a hospital. Yes. I’m like, you had to what did you have to do? It’s like mine something and and, like, some spawn point of a video game. Right? I can’t remember. But, yeah, that’s what these tiny home like, city run tiny home villages kinda remind me of. Elena Purdlguinney, the Portland city councilor for the district in which Dignity Village and Right to Dream are two are located, sees the self governed and city governed models as complementary. And I think that’s important because that is what we’re ultimately gonna see. We’re gonna see weird city programs. We’re gonna see weird off the grid programs. We’re gonna see the elite sovereign states and cities, and they’re all going to exist together. And a lot of it comes down to what you can get yourself into when things fall sideways. Right? So something I’m thinking about. I know, man. Like Gotta get married. More and more people are reaching out to us about the index, and they’re like, look. I’m in. Like

Malcolm Collins:I’m in. This is a good idea.

Simone Collins:I’m like, yeah. It’s happening. Like, we’re starting to build it. Another alternate format is self governing communities that are run by nonprofits with boards of housed nonresidents. So here’s the mention of that in this article. Mister Hebben helped spearhead a community called Opportunity Village in Eugene, Oregon, which was modeled on Dignity Village. He also cofounded a like minded venture called Square One Villages. Unlike Dignity Villages, whose founders created a nonprofit on their own, Opportunity Village Villages Associated Nonprofit is run by an external board of directors, housed residents who support an elected council of village residents who oversee daily operations. Quote, you visit these camps and you see all these positive elements of self organizing direct democracy and mutual aid, but they’re also far from ideal living situations, mister Hebben said. As soon as you try to formalize them, there needs to be some top down rules. I think that’s not gonna work. I think it needs to be owned by the people who live there. What do you think? Can can I agree. Okay. So you don’t think some, like, benevolent person can be like, I’m gonna make your

Malcolm Collins:my human farm work because you don’t own equity in it. You don’t own your place. There’s no reason to improve it. Right? Like Yeah. That’s one of the problems with communism. You can’t come in as, a third party benevolent person and handle this.

Simone Collins:Yeah. I will give one exception, which is I think that hundreds of years have proven that the what do we the the feudal model, basically, where, like, people are living and and working the land of landed gentry. And the the landed gentry cares about the land and the people thriving because, otherwise, they’re not making the income they need to do their thing. And then the people on the land, they all care about, like, collectively working together. Because, I mean, functionally, it’s it’s their land assuming that they’re being treated well and not being robbed blind. So maybe that could work, but that’s not what this is. These these separate boards are people who don’t, like, live, whose livelihood isn’t dependent or tied to the success of this community of unhoused people, but it could be. I I do wonder if we’ll see forms of feudalism in the in the future. I mean, there are existing, like, forms of feudalism now, but, anyway. here’s a a dark slice of life in the village and a picture of the tension. The tension between the Independence Dignity Village residents credit for the community’s success and the city’s disapproval of its an anarchic atmosphere hung over the Dignity Village council meeting. The aroma of decomposing waste penetrated the walls from the compost facility next door, along with the occasional roar of a jet taking off as the group trudged through the agenda items, bills to be paid, policies for evicting vicious dogs, and the delicate work of resolving a love triangle’s domestic disputes. Village elders issued ardent reminders to keep trash from accumulating and remain vigilant about the risks, lest the city pull the plug on their twenty five year experiment. Ray Stanzak, a 76 year old resident, spoke to the perennial paradox the community faces. They may feel like their model trumps the cities, but they sit on city owned land. Quote, I don’t think they’re going to shut us down, he said. They might try to run us, which is yeah. Anyway, it’s not an ideal situation, but I do think that most new settlements that show up in the future are going to be in sim similarly tense situations where, technically, some other more resourced entity is going to be near them. And I think the really key thing and you were always like this. When we talked about land that we should buy, you were like, we need to buy land that is on a frozen tundra that no one wants to be on, that’s far away from everything. Because if you’re anywhere that’s desirable, people are going to try to take you over. And, also, if you start to thrive and be productive and make money, guess what? They’re gonna be like, yeah. We own you now, and we have the guns. So tough. You belong to us. And and I think that that’s something even though they’re, like, next to a dung heap, they’re still in this situation, which sucks. And then, of course, it sucks that they’re next to the dung heap just like it would kinda suck if we were in the frozen tundra, assuming we didn’t have, like, the world’s best in

Malcolm Collins:Dude, that’s why the city is not fighting over the land. That’s why somebody else isn’t fighting over the land. It protects them.

Simone Collins:Yeah. Though even even with this protection, they feel the tension. They feel the city breathing down their neck and being like, kind of just waiting for them to slip up just once, and and that’s tough. But as I started reading this, because I can’t I I didn’t really remember exactly the the scenario of Chop Chaz. I was like, wait. Hold on a second. Because I remember in 2020 when, Chop Chaz existed as this occupied area again in the Pacific Northwest, it was like, hold on. It was supposed to be self governing. It was supposed to be super cool. Why did it fall apart in days? Whereas this community has been around for twenty five years. And then when I just brushed up on why it failed so quickly and why this village has succeeded to survive so long, I got I came away with sort of some, like, lessons to live by for your postapocalyptic community. So I will share them with you, Malcolm. The important thing just to to what we were discussing, Chop Chas inhabited occupied land in the middle of a city that people wanted and needed, whereas Dignity Village settled in vacant land next to a composting plant that nobody wanted to be in. It actively stinks and likes plumbing. So key lesson, you cannot settle on land people want. second, Dignity Village was created by people who genuinely needed a place to live and had few other choices, whereas Chop Taz was occupied by protesters and people who were just, like, literally there to make a mess. It it sucks. so key lesson. Basically, future communities are not gonna be run as LARPs or by people who are like, oh, I wish this worked. Like, I’m gonna go here and show people what it’s like. It’s gonna be run by people who literally have no other choice and need to be there. and I think this is important because we were just talking the other day about Praxis, this city state that has recently announced it’s going to set up its city upon a hill in Uruguay and how it’s gonna be so beautiful. And they’re trying to get, I think, 2,000 bougie tech workers to move out there and commit to living there, and it’s not going to happen because don’t need it.

Malcolm Collins:I got you to click the button.

Simone Collins:Malcolm. I hate you. The button. I hate you so much. We are still visa holders of Praxis, and yet I just want them to listen carefully that people will not move to your city state unless they need to. and this is an important lesson in post apocalyptic city building. Anyway, also, super key super key point. Dignity Village has low traffic, and you need to see a guard in order to get in. You have to be basically accompanied as a guest as you visit, whereas Chop Chaz had really rapid churn. A lot of people are coming in and out. So the key lesson there is that the sustainable communities of the future will be gated even when they’re not elite, even when they’re not expensive. And I I had I guess I hadn’t thought about it that I was like, well, there’s gonna be the walled cities, and then there’s gonna be everyone else. But, no, of course, everyone else is gonna have walled cities too. Everyone needs protection when there’s no protection. You know what I mean? And I just hadn’t I don’t know. I hadn’t put that together in my head because I’m I want it. And therefore, Anyway, from I just just just a little picture again from the Dignity Village manual. All guests slash visitors are subject to review by the village intake committee. So by the way, just to get in, the village intake community has to take a look at you, maybe, which is a thing. I really like that. I like how elitist they are. Visitors for a villager must be escorted by security to the commons room. Security will then get the villager for safety reasons, domestic violence, stalking, vendettas, etcetera. Security must not escort a visitor directly to the village’s structure.

Malcolm Collins:I think that’s really smart. Well, sure they really don’t trust outsiders, which I like.

Simone Collins:Yeah. No. this is a very postapocalyptic friendly village. I’m into it.

Malcolm Collins:Outside It’s in Portland.

Simone Collins:I know. No. Like, I don’t know. Just reading this article and being like, oh, yes. At the conference where all the postapocalyptic villages meet and, like, oh, no. Like,

Malcolm Collins:why? Because they’ve already destroyed their city. Well, we’re going to see little islands of things working as progressives end up bringing cities to a state where the culture within the city is just not continuing not functional.

Simone Collins:As William Gibson said, the future is here. It is just not evenly distributed. Outside the commons area, visitors must be escorted at all times. Only a member may escort a visitor outside the common area. Exception is made with an activity doing work for the village. Only members in good standing may have overnight guests. So even if you’re, like, if you’re not yet a if you’re a provisional member, for example, no guests. it’s like the Bohemian Grove. You have to have, like, a like, it’s it’s you know, that’s the it is as elite as the Bohemian Grove.

Malcolm Collins:Bohemian Grove. That is the rule set of the Bohemian Grove, by the way. Only a full member can bring a guest.

Simone Collins:Yeah. Yeah. So there you go. Right? I mean, like, that’s the we have Bohemian level Bohemian Grove levels of, exclusivity. Also, Dignity Village has really clear governance and rules. Like, literally, there’s a handbook. It may be filthy, but it’s there. and there are membership expectations. You have to work, ten hours a month. there’s intake. There’s there’s resident governance. There’s discipline. And whereas in CHOP and CHAS, they had this, like they lose norms, but complete inability to enforce them. So another key lesson is to be a member of sustainable community will be like having an additional part time job. It is gonna be work to be in your community. It is not gonna be easy. You don’t get to, like, throw money at a problem and be like, oh, like, now I can just live life like I used to. No. Your life is gonna fundamentally change. It’s gonna be like having kids, except now you’re having a community, which is rough. But it shows that the Latter day Saints have a major leg up in this because they’re so used to it. The like, the churches don’t have staff to play the music to to teach the Sunday school. Like, it’s no. You get called. That’s your calling now. Great. Now you’re paying you’re playing the piano this Sunday. It’s on you. That was my college roommate. She would she would always get called to play the piano. And, also, Dignity Village managed to patch together conditional permission and use arrangements and nonprofit and legal capacity, which was major. Mean, I obviously, Chop Chats was super illegal and just a protest, and they were occupying an area by force. So a key lesson also is to find a sort of plausibly legal way to enter an arrangement with whatever entity technically governs the area. And I think that’s just an important, like, thing to note. like, whoever has the most guns in your area

Malcolm Collins:Well, they didn’t take a land that a bunch of other people had shops on and everything. They just

Simone Collins:Obviously. Yeah. So yeah. I mean, obviously, take that’s, like, rule number one is do not take desirable land. But rule I don’t know what am I on. Five, this is my last rule, is you have to have some kind of arrangement of, like, I will pay you protection money or, like, technically, I fit within your rules, so you’re gonna leave me alone. Right? Like, they have to they have to feel like they approved you. And if they don’t feel like they approved you, you’re not long for this world. Do you you see what I mean? Like, you have to you have to play a stupid game even though the it’s the apocalypse. You have to tell the smokers, like, I will give you gasoline. I don’t I don’t I’m I’m losing my

Malcolm Collins:medical work. Take away your homeless and and stick them in a recycling bin. The recycling

Simone Collins:The compost heap. Malcolm.

Malcolm Collins:Compost. Anyway God. Love you, Simone. This is very informative.

Simone Collins:Yeah.

Malcolm Collins:And I hope people, learn from this.

Simone Collins:I hope they do too, and I love you very much.

Malcolm Collins:And I love you, and I prepped the malicious compliance episode while we were recording. So

Simone Collins:You did. I know you love to ignore me while I’m

Malcolm Collins:Shut up.

Simone Collins:An episode. It’s so hard to listen to a woman just go on and on. I thought you were playing You told You’re being productive, and I really appreciate that.

Malcolm Collins:Me you wanted it ready.

Simone Collins:You you got excited about it. So let’s do it. I do. No. We really have to do that episode, so I really appreciate it. Thank you. Look. I’m not mad. I know I do you do you know what it’s like to be me? At least I mean, I know it sucks to have

Malcolm Collins:to listen to get the episode tomorrow. I’m sure everybody’s excited about it. Anyway, love you, Simone. Bye. Bye. So far, this has been capturing really good high quality video.

Simone Collins:Yeah. And yet the export’s so much faster. So, yeah, you’re not gonna see me complaining. I’m I’m very I’m very pleased.

Malcolm Collins:got yes. And I got random bruises from kids. See? You came in and you go, who’d you get that from? Was like, oh, I didn’t know I had that bruise. That’s a that’s a new one. Interesting.

Simone Collins:We’re we’re covered in wounds. Torsten’s headbutts are just so intense. So now he’s

Malcolm Collins:It’s how he shows his love.

Simone Collins:It is how he shows his love. But, like, when you see him running in for one, you’re like, oh god. Brace. Especially, you know, you’re gonna have a

Malcolm Collins:holding something or doing something,

Simone Collins:and you can’t move or block. Yeah. Yeah. There’s no way to run away. I think it’s gonna be a Houdini situation if I don’t die tripping over something with the kids. Like, one of them is just gonna sucker punch me, and I won’t be ready for it. I’m just gonna die.

Malcolm Collins:They are so rambunctious. Anyway, I’m I’m really excited to do the Sabbath episode. I’m I’m quite frustrated that I didn’t have time to prep today. But by the way, if you people want to watch the argument that we had in preparation for that episode that a lot of people thought was one of our better religious episodes, it’s a weekend episode. we we made it a weekend episode because I did wanna have two Sabbath episodes in a row. what it means if it’s a weekend episode on our paid Substack in Patreon, because I didn’t wanna have two Sabbath episodes in a row.

Simone Collins:But if you wanna see us bicker about things

Malcolm Collins:but we wanted to make sure that we were on the same page and then try it and see, you know, like, with what the bible said,

Simone Collins:I was being too Jewy, and he was being too I don’t know.

Malcolm Collins:Too anything. I was right. We we ended up just arguing about bible quotes, which is very funny. I don’t think you would have expected that early in our relationship. I know. No. Look at where it says this. No. Look at where it says this.

Speaker 3:They stole

Malcolm Collins:the guy. Clearly, they were serious about it.

Simone Collins:I come on. You don’t you know? But then, yeah, what what I did ultimately come away with and I think maybe someone on our our paid subscriber Hangout was talking about this that or was they were mentioning it. Was I mentioning it too? That Jews have a covenantal relationship with God. Like, that is to say the Israelites have a covenantal relationship with God. Everyone is subject to God. It’s just that this one group is like it’s a well, we’re gonna play a cat and mouse game with rules, and everyone else, you’re just gonna burn and fire if, you don’t follow my rules. So one group has to play cat and mouse game. The other one has to figure it out. And you’re very much in the figure it out group. You’re not in the cat and mouse game. The the malicious compliance group. The malicious compliance group. Me put a wig on so that I cover my hair.

Malcolm Collins:That’s one of the things that I am outlining for that episode. It’s all of the ways that Jewish

Simone Collins:malicious needs to be its own episode is a tier list of Jewish malicious compliance. I’m so excited for this episode. Do I have to do this if you’re just gonna throw

Malcolm Collins:it in? I will prep

Simone Collins:the Jewish malicious compliance episode. Dare talk that into the Sabbath episode. I’m so We’ll

Malcolm Collins:do that as a lead up to the Sabbath episode, the Jewish malicious compliance.

Simone Collins:Tear you.

Malcolm Collins:Because I think that it’s it’s very fun.

Simone Collins:It’s so fun. It’s so cool. I mean, we have to do, like, the timed crock pot. We have to do that rotating light thingy. We have to do, of course, the golden thread.

Malcolm Collins:Well, I mean, yeah, I found some of it when I was researching it, like, crazy. I had no idea about. So there’s a bunch of rules that make it really hard economically to do, like, cattle.

Simone Collins:If you’re Oh, yeah. You’re talking about milking cows.

Malcolm Collins:Like No. No. It’s because the first cow born, I think it’s the first male cow or first female cow has to be treated in a specific way that’s, like, not economically viable. Oh. So so what Jews do is they sell a portion of the cow’s ear to a Goyum. So it’s like they don’t own all of it. and then that person sort of takes responsibility for them not following all the rules. Or, another crazy one is you’re supposed to do field rotation, where you leave but you don’t need that for modern agriculture. And so for the year that they’re supposed to leave it fallow, they rent it to Agoyam to to to work I’m not

Simone Collins:doing anything. I’m not doing anything. Being paid

Malcolm Collins:by Oh, and there’s this other thing where they have Agoyam, like, live with them for the day of of Sabbath to handle stuff, but they’re not allowed to ask them directly. So for anything. Right? Because you can’t you can’t ask somebody else to work for you. So you’ve gotta say things like, certainly is dark in here. Or feeling a little chilly.

Simone Collins:Yes. It has to be a woman.

Malcolm Collins:We were we were okay. Because a woman would naturally be that underhanded.

Simone Collins:Malcolm, if if if you walk into a room that has a massive mess in it, you’re like Okay. See anything wrong. What’s wrong? There’s nothing wrong with this picture. What do you mean?

Malcolm Collins:Would be being my goyum be the easiest servant job ever? Right? Like, you don’t have to

Simone Collins:No. You would you wouldn’t even run-in the first place. You’d be like, am I gonna die?

Malcolm Collins:No. I was joking on the the the the paid subscriber call that, like, the reason why Jewish women are supposed to cover their hair actually has to do with the way that you would be dressed down in a court case if you had committed adultery. And then a second section where it’s considered a woman’s hair is considered, like, a lustful thing, like a like, the exposed breasts or something like that. And I was like, when you talk about, like, malicious compliance, it’s like, you come downstairs and your parents are like, you’re showing too much skin. You know, go back upstairs. Like, too much of your breasts are showing, then you come back downstairs with, like, rubber boobs. And the parents just like, I guess I wasn’t strict enough. Touche. And then we argue that this is how Jews why God had to get so strict with them, why they have so many rules.

Simone Collins:Cat and mouse game.

Malcolm Collins:Cat and

Simone Collins:mouse game. But, again, that’s a covenantal relationship that they have with God. Everyone else is just subject to the rule.

Malcolm Collins:Which makes them really good lawyers and stuff. I mean, clearly does. No.

Simone Collins:Think I think it’s humanity benefits from having a a subset of humans that have this covenantal relationship with really glad I don’t have that. And then I think it also is good that it’s very it to me, it kind of reminds me of the difference between The UK exam system and many colleges in higher education institutions in The US. We’re like, in The US, it’s like, you have homework. You get graded on class attendance. You get graded on all these things. And in The UK, you show up at finals, and you Well,

Malcolm Collins:mean, it’s it’s clearly a a less to to me, at least, or maybe maybe it’s different for different people. I mean, maybe the Jews are and this is why you you have to be, like, genetically a Jew to be Jewish. Like, they prefer this. They’re made in a way that they prefer the covenantal relationship. Whereas I don’t that would feel very unfulfilling to me, I think. I wouldn’t be as compelled by it.

Simone Collins:Rules to me are like swaddling.

Malcolm Collins:Yeah. You kept wanting more rules around the Sabbath. That’s what the core argument is. And I was like, no, Simone. But, like, clearly, this has been loosened here, here, and here.

Simone Collins:I need the tight and constraining embrace. Too many rules. But

Malcolm Collins:you were also complaining about the rules the most. And I

Speaker 3:was like

Simone Collins:I know. It’s, it’s that it’s that brat relationship relationship in in BDSM. BDSM. You You know? Know? Thank me harder. God. Constrain me harder. Oh god. I need to not do this. Let’s talk.

Malcolm Collins:So down because this isn’t looking good.

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