] Simone Collins: Hello, Malcolm, and David Lawrence, and our guest today, who is here to talk about the mysterious and also incredibly toxic hot girl service economy.[00:00:09] So imagine actually, you don’t have to imagine, ‘cause there are actually places like New York, like Dubai, like Phuket, like, Bali that are essentially like sticky fly traps, where women will go because they get random modeling opportunities, random vacation opportunities. They decide to work remotely there for a little bit, and then they basically get sucked into what David has come to call the hot girl service economy, where they develop jobs modeling selling services to models, that almost require them to not only stay there and get sucked into this lifestyle, but continue to stay completely unattached, not meet other people, not form families or have kids, and not go back to whatever their home countries might be or their hometowns might be, which means that they’re increasingly isolated from the rest of society, much in the way that, say an Orthodox Jewish community might be isolated from the rest of society in that they are buying and selling services to and, and from each other.[00:01:05] They’re not really interacting with the rest of the world. But they are nevertheless often facilitated and made possible by government subsidies in the form of, say, food assistance and housing assistance, and other assistance for people working technically on extremely low incomes perhaps because a lot of stuff is happening off the books, which definitely happens at this, this hot girl service economy.[00:01:25] So David, tell us how you encountered this, and why you think it matters for people to even know that it exists. Like, who cares that hot girls are, like, disappearing into this fertility trap where they just get shredded?[00:01:38] David Lorentzon: The way I, the way I got started with public opinion making was on researching the gender segregated economy and mass female marriage migration going on in my country, Sweden.[00:01:50] And ever since I did that six years ago, I’ve just continued in my lane, focused on it as much as possible, trying to find not just pergood explanations and stories about what’s going on with the men who are segregated from the women, but also finding the stories and explanations for what’s going on with the women.[00:02:07] And it was only about a year ago that I really coined the term the hot girl service economy to really encapsulate what is actually going on here. So-[00:02:16] Malcolm Collins: And you, and you interviewed a number of these women to, like, understand their perspective on all of this-[00:02:21] David Lorentzon: Yeah, yeah ...[00:02:21] Malcolm Collins: and, and, and what it’s like. Yeah.[00:02:23] David Lorentzon: So I, I’ve, I’ve had the opportunity to talk to some of these girls that live basically six months or even year round in these various tropical paradises.[00:02:32] Basically, a hot girl service economy location is some place that is coastal and that is warm year-round. I wouldn’t count necessarily New York as a part of it. There’s a lot of women there, but not as the hot girl service economy hotspot. It would be places like Miami, where you have sun and you can basically be, be in a bikini year-round.[00:02:52] Bali, Phuket[00:02:53] Malcolm Collins: But yeah, when he was talking to us about this earlier one of the things that he mentioned was that they often will buy from the same sorts of services. Like, they’ll all go to the same Pilates studio, they’ll all go to the same yoga place, they’ll all get their hair done at the same place, they’ll all eat at the same places, and these places will often be run by women in this sort of hot girl network.[00:03:13] And we had run into s- such a person in the past. We were meeting with various entrepreneurs and one of them was a woman who had described her yoga studio as like the it yoga studio, the cool yoga studio. And I didn’t quite understand what she meant by this, and at one point she described a guy coming up and being very angry at her because she was quadruple charging him, you know, for...[00:03:40] He goes, “This, this can’t be right.” And then so she pulled up the profiles associated with all of those accounts, and he goes, “Oh, they all go here?” Just like, the supporting the lifestyles of multiples of these hot girls, and this is part of the way... Like, that’s actually pretty unusual when you think about the economic structure of a [00:04:00] thing in that you have a guy paying for various pretty expensive aspects of a collection of women’s lifestyles which is then trickling down to other women who have been part of this.[00:04:15] But, but continue. You, you dropped off there for a second.[00:04:17] David Lorentzon: Right. So you have these various women that we see the most online that are the, like, say, the top models, the top OnlyFans content creators, and they, to continue keeping their job as a hot girl, as a model, et cetera, they have to spend a lot of money on themselves.[00:04:33] Talking about yoga, dieting, exercise, gym. And when you look at these various services that they’re spending their money on, a lot of them are operated and run by other hot girls that may not even have an Instagram, that may not even have an OnlyFans account, but they are achieving a high income and becoming a part of this ecosystem that these various models basically sustain and make it grow.[00:04:56] So what you have is essentially a very insular, encapsulated economy going on in these various tropical paradises where women have effectively isolated themselves, and that in return makes it difficult for them to leave that place and form a family, start having kids, form a relationship because the Western men that they are attracted to can’t even get anywhere close to these encapsulated economies in tropical paradise.[00:05:21] Because if you think about regular men, you know, the, they go maybe for a two-week vacation to these places. Their jobs that they usually do are not in demand in these areas[00:05:31] Malcolm Collins: Mm.[00:05:31] David Lorentzon: You’ve... So you have this huge problem where, okay, yeah, there’s plenty of men in Dubai but not the men that these women want.[00:05:38] They want a Yellowstone cowboy And what the, what you have in Dubai are, what? Arabian Muslim men. So it’s not the right demographic, it’s not the right type of men that they want. They’re building a whole lifestyle that makes them hyper-feminine, in a sense.[00:05:56] Malcolm Collins: And- Well, what’s interesting is, is Dubai is probably the place where they’d have the, the most access to the type of men they might actually want, because at least Dubai does have some corporate jobs.[00:06:05] Whereas others of these sorts of locations, like Bali and stuff like that, you’re not gonna get any corporate guys in, like, Bali. And then yet others, Miami, a city that we have lived in, a lot of people do not realize the social scene in Miami is literally, at least for people like us, the worst social scene I have been involved in in my entire life.[00:06:26] And it is because Miami has incredibly, incredibly high costs of living, but incredibly medium to kind of low jobs. Like, the, the, the income you can earn, like the average income in Miami is not a good average income. And if you then contrast that with other cities where you can go, like say Dallas, where we also lived and had a great social scene Dallas has an extremely low cost of living for a city of its size and a, a fairly high average wage with a lot of corporate jobs.[00:06:58] And so it means if you’re like a young, ambitious guy, do you go... Y- you would never go to Miami. The only reason to go to Miami is to live well there’s sort of a few reasons. It’s to live an influencer lifestyle, which not a lot of guys can afford to do. Or it’s because you are from Latin America and stole a bunch of money from your country and are now looking for somewhere to hang out.[00:07:20] That’s the, the vast majority, You know, even w- in Miami when we would hire accountants you know, they’d have to speci- like we, we had some of them be like I, I, I, I need to be clear, I do not specialize in fraud.” Just because, like, it’s thought of as a thing in Miami that, like, the accountant is the guy who specializes in fraud.[00:07:38] And so if they don’t do that, they need to b- explain, “I’m not one of that of Miami accountant. I’m like a nor-” But what this means is often women, the, the hot girls who are moving to these places who are, you know, let’s say the, the four girls on the one guy’s yoga account this isn’t the type of guy who they want to [00:08:00] marry frequently.[00:08:01] And if you’ve seen these guys, because we’ve worked with a lot of, you know, this crowd in Miami and stuff like this they’re generally... like one aspect of the hot girl economy which I think is underrated is sometimes it, the, the women are making money from within these regions, but the men who they’re partnered with are not permanent partnerships.[00:08:24] They are being paid to be models on a boat for the guy so the guy can do a video about how many hot girls he gets. But like they’re not considering the guy as a serious candidate. And, and that’s the type of guy that they’re running into.[00:08:40] David Lorentzon: Yeah. So whenever they do encounter men in these tropical paradises, none of them can stay as long as the girls do.[00:08:47] So when they encounter them, “Oh, you’re only staying here for a week or two. What’s the point of entering a relationship if you’re just gonna leave, and I’m gonna stay here for the rest of the year,” right? So it creates this horrible incentive structure where you’re deeply incentivized to remain single, spend a huge amount of money on yourself because your body is your job, and it creates an enormous incentive to never have kids The, if you look at Dubai, Phuket, Bali, they don’t have Western welfare safety nets.[00:09:17] All of these various natalist policies don’t touch these women at all. They have zero effect on them. And you think about, okay, models, they can earn, you know, $5,000 a month, a lot of them, and a few, throwing, a government throwing a few hundred dollars a month on, “Hey, have more kids,” that’s not gonna do anything for these women.[00:09:39] Because the cost of losing your job in this hot girl service economy vastly outstrips and outnumber any financial incentive that you can create in a Western democracy. So you are basically, we right now have created an economy that basically pays ho- the hottest girls to never have kids.[00:10:00] Simone Collins: Yeah.[00:10:00] Similar to, like, idols in, in Tokyo or in Seoul in South Korea.[00:10:05] Malcolm Collins: You know what? This actually makes me realize something.[00:10:07] Simone Collins: Yeah ...[00:10:08] Malcolm Collins: this is probably partially the reason why there are so many successful Mormon influencers. Oh my[00:10:16] Simone Collins: gosh,[00:10:16] Malcolm Collins: right ... and here’s why. Because they’re one of the only groups where the hottest of women would not consider this lifestyle, and so they end up, while they are still young and hot, getting married and having lots of kids, and then they can produce the hot married woman content which does have a demographic that likes it, and they are the hottest, youngest women producing that kind of content.[00:10:42] Simone Collins: Wow.[00:10:42] David Lorentzon: Yeah, like Ballerina Farmer, right?[00:10:44] Simone Collins: Yeah. But there’s a, there’s a ton more. There’s this whole cinematic universe of Mormon influencers. Secret[00:10:50] David Lorentzon: lives of Mormon wives.[00:10:51] Simone Collins: That too, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And those are, like, yeah, that they’re leaning out from, like, the core traditions of the church, and there are many more that are super, way more devout.[00:10:59] But that, that is a really good example of it, and-[00:11:01] Malcolm Collins: But even if they’re leaning out from the church, they’re not like, “I’m gonna go to Dubai and become a sex slave,” right? Like, they’re-[00:11:06] Simone Collins: Yeah.[00:11:07] Malcolm Collins: Like, they that’s not in the cards for them. Which is really interesting. And I, and I think when guys hear this, they’re like, “Well, you know, how, how big can the draw for these women be for these sorts of regions?”[00:11:22] Okay, now so suppose you’re a younger woman, you’re out of college you’re building up your career. Now keep in mind, typically your early positions within any career are not the most fun positions. They’re not the best paying positions. They’re often the most humiliating positions. And then you decide, you bu- you build an Instagram account.[00:11:41] Now you’re in the top- now when we say the, the hottest girls, let’s say like top 0.5% or something like that. So your Instagram account pops off, and you have people offering you, you know, free products, free stuff. And maybe even, so you might make a little bit of money from that. But if you have seen the types of money that some of these [00:12:00] women make.[00:12:00] Now, obviously most women make almost nothing from OnlyFans. But some women like the number that shocked me was the owners of Peanuts the squirrel who was killed- Oh ... were making 80,000 a month on OnlyFans. And went, “80,000 a month?” Like, I would be tempted by OnlyFans at that amount. So you all of a sudden start making enormous amounts of money, and you are And then disproportionately rewarded in future feeds from being in an aspirational environment, from being on the beach, from being on whatever.[00:12:31] And then in addition to that, you have guys who are, you know, we have the Monster Effer series of, of, of books at, like, Barnes & Noble. Like, women do have a desire for, like, the dark. The, the, the dark local you know, sheik or whatever, right? Or a dark money guy in Miami, or, you know, other i- i- i- it, it feels a little dark.[00:12:52] It feels a little tempting. It is a very difficult thing to resist if you are just living by the standards of society.[00:13:02] Simone Collins: And I think- Well, after a certain number of years with that kind of career, you have the sort of resume gap that will make it very difficult for you to become employed otherwise. It, it’s a very path dependent type of career.[00:13:13] So once you get in with that community and you, you know, you, first you probably start as a model, then you start doing makeup work and some photography. Maybe you become an esthetician. You, you teach yoga or Pilates on the side. It, it’s, it definitely does become a lifelong career, and versions of this that kind of rhyme with this even happen in non-hot girl economies that I’ve seen in, like, California and other places where these women are, like, one will, like, teach a burlesque class and then exchange that for getting her hair cut from another woman.[00:13:47] But then[00:13:47] Malcolm Collins: they- Well, well, there’s a version of this on the e- in, in the effective altruist EA community where we have an episode where we detail this, where we t- talk about the EA to sex work pipeline. And it’s like, it’s, it’s so hard not to get pulled into if you’re a woman in one of these communities because you know, everyone in that world is like, “Well, you’ve got to be polyamorous or you’re unethical,” right?[00:14:08] Like, “That means that you’re, you’re selfish with your partner. You don’t want to share them.” And then of course your boss wants to pressure you to be that with him, and that’s how you start moving up. And then oh, you lose your job for a while, and then you start doing it and, and now you’ve got this big hole on your resume because you, oh, you start accepting money from some of the poly guys that you’re with and stuff like that, ‘cause they’re all successful engineers at, like, tech companies.[00:14:29] And it creates an alternate model of one of these. But continue.[00:14:34] David Lorentzon: Yeah, I think that there’s probably a few million women who are involved in the hot girl service economy, but it’s creating media for, that billions are watching. Mm. So there are millions more young women aspiring and trying to build up themselves to get into this ecosystem.[00:14:52] So you may say, okay, it’s 0.05%. Yeah, those are the top earners, but the top earners, eventually that money trickles into a whole ecosystem that can f- that can sustain the lifestyle of a dozens of other women that whose, whose social media you would never see. And so this, this whole ecosystem is a lot bigger than I think we can imagine right now.[00:15:16] I think it has millions of women hooked into this. And once you’re hooked into this- Mm ... it becomes an addiction. The lifestyle itself, the way you can travel across the world all the time. Women love traveling, 84% of all solo travelers are women right now.[00:15:32] Malcolm Collins: Wow.[00:15:33] David Lorentzon: This, this is the new drug for young people.[00:15:36] You know, Zoomers are drinking way less alcohol, doing way less drugs than previous generations did. But the new drug for young women is to travel, is to live in paradise during winter months. This is just hooking onto these- Well- ... dopamine receptors-[00:15:51] Malcolm Collins: I,[00:15:52] David Lorentzon: I’d also point out[00:15:52] Malcolm Collins: that[00:15:53] David Lorentzon: like- ...[00:15:54] Malcolm Collins: in ways that wasn’t possible before[00:15:55] It’s hard to explain to a woman why she wouldn’t want to do this in a [00:16:00] believable context. Because if she has been raised within the normal dominant cultural set, and this is something Simone and I have been talking about, ‘cause I’m running into some of my old classmates, and they’re just completely sort of brainwashed by this you know, normative, like, , this is what prestige is.[00:16:16] This is what matters. You know, you wanna have the, the fancy things, you wanna have the fancy, you know, generics. You wanna meet with the fancy people. , And be just all round about respectable fancy, right? And so you go to a girl who doesn’t have some alternate social model established for her, who is out of college or out of high school, and you say, “You should not like a lifestyle where, for the next 10 to 20 years, you’re gonna live on a beach drinking cocktails and not really having to work,” they’re gonna be like, “Wait, why would I not like that co- why is that a bad future f- that actually sounds like a great future.”[00:16:55] And, and- Yeah ... better I’m an influencer. Better every day I get thousands of people affirming me. And as you’ve pointed out, this then trickles down and influences many, many more millions of people, because that’s what allows it to work in the first place.[00:17:08] David Lorentzon: Yeah. Exactly. And you know, the real big social cause is that whenever women do this, they isolate themselves from the rest of their family, they isolate themselves.[00:17:18] Every single year you spend in Bali is a year you did not build your community. So when you eventually try to leave this lifestyle, you realize you don’t have a home anymore. You have, you have chopped off the roots on the tree. The community that made maybe having a family and kids possible, you have not maintained that community.[00:17:37] All of your friends are now spread across the world right now. So if you wanna meet your friends, you’re gonna have to pay the friend travel tax. Okay? You wanna meet your best friend? Oh, she is in São Paulo, Brazil. That’s gonna cost you $5,000 for a weekend. Congratulations. That’s the friendship tax.[00:17:53] Instead of having, let’s say, a preserved community like the Mormon people do, then you don’t have to pay any money at all to meet your best friends because they, you all live locally. So once you’re in this ecosystem, it actually becomes quite expensive to, to maintain friendships because everyone are on their own solo journey, traveling across the world all the time, and the only way to meet your best friend is to spend more money traveling.[00:18:18] So it kinda, it, it kinda gets you stuck in this cycle where, okay, if I wanna con- maintain having friends, I need to maintain having an income. And once you leave that, you become incredibly isolated. Let’s say that you go back to Europe or go back to the Midwest USA, and then you spend your winter there isolated from all your friends.[00:18:37] You’re watching their Instagram on your feed, and you become s- seethingly jealous. And because you haven’t experienced winter for a very long time, that becomes extremely depressing for you.[00:18:47] Malcolm Collins: Mm.[00:18:48] David Lorentzon: So you have no community. You’ve isolated yourself, so it becomes emotionally very taxing and- difficult for these women to deal with.[00:18:59] Malcolm Collins: Well, I’d[00:18:59] Simone Collins: also point out, And I think, wait, hold on. I don’t think they actually see it as emotionally taxing, though. Like, they’re in a bubble, and they’re surrounded by other women in their same circumstances. It’s like some new version of Sex and the City that’s not Sex and the City. It’s like, you know, Dubai and I’m an OnlyFans model.[00:19:12] But it- where they have their support network. They have all these women who are affirming them and who are living the same lifestyle. So I, I mean, while it’s harder for them to go back to an old life, it’s an unglamorous life. It’s boring. Those other people are ugly anyway, and you’re surrounded by other hot girls who affirm you.[00:19:28] Is this, are these, like... So when I- No,[00:19:30] Malcolm Collins: Simone, I think that there’s something being missed here, which is- Yeah ... the, they likely do have significant social circles. Because if you look at, like, our online lifestyle, like our online community when you become a popular content creator, you do collabs.[00:19:49] And the types of girls who would be in the hot girl lifestyle, everything they do benefits from collabs. Yeah. Their videos benefit from collabs. Their [00:20:00] OnlyFans benefits from collabs. Their going on a date with a rich sheik c- c- benefits from collabs. And it’s actually somewhat of a social phenomenon what it means is you go, like, you go on a boat. You’re doing one of those yacht things. You got invited to one of those parties. You know, if you’re doing one of those a, a week or even one of those a month you go to the pool party, you go to the, ... Most of the things that you would do benefit from a degree of sociality, but only sociality with other hot women. And only sociality with other hot women where this is their primary income type. And I can say from myself, like in our community as content creation people I have become very good friends with, and consider my best friends today, to be other content creators that I only know of through content creation, and th- those friendships can be very deep and meaningful even without the in-person connections.[00:20:58] But they are still isolating to an extent, or isolating from traditional communities. But continue.[00:21:05] David Lorentzon: Yeah, so a, another good example is that when your Instagram hits a sufficient size, you can get an account manager who manage stuff on your account for you. Now those account managers manage many other accounts, and through those people, you get in contact with women you would other not- otherwise never communicate with or hear about.[00:21:27] So absolutely, you do have this network effect once you become a model, when you become part of this hot girl service economy. So as a result, these become your friends. These are the ones that help you get you share your followers, you do these collabs, you build up, and eventually you become very close friends.[00:21:47] And suddenly you’re on your different journeys, and it becomes just really expensive over time to keep those friendships. And when you can’t keep spending all of your money on traveling, then you have less disposable money for other things in life. So when this hot girl service economy were to decline, then I, I fear that there’s not gonna be a lot of saved capital coming out of it, so.[00:22:13] Simone Collins: Well, I was gonna ask you, David, ‘cause the first time you came on our podcast you talked about arbitrage opportunities and the likely demographic shifts that will be downstream of being a passport bro. Like, you know, going to other countries to find women to marry who will probably make better wives than, you know, women in your own local community for whatever reason.[00:22:33] Is there no passport bro opportunity with the hot girl service economy, or with someone who understands the nature of this economy and how to navigate it? Like, is there no convincing women within it that there is a better option and that their life is inherently unsustainable? Or do you think this is a group of women who are going to be largely written off?[00:22:53] David Lorentzon: So let’s, let’s just take an example. You- Thailand is a popular destination You have some guy going on a Thailand vacation. He’s maybe there for a few weeks. As a result, he meets a hot girl who may be there for half a year. They’re gonna have conflicts because he’s only staying there for a few weeks, she’s staying there for half a year.[00:23:11] That in itself causes a problem. Now, let’s say they have a long distance relationship Then you’re gonna have the problem that, okay, if you wanna live together, someone’s gonna have to lose their job. Now, if the man were to move to Bali or Phuket, let’s say he’s blue collar. He’s never gonna find a job in these areas because whenever a plumber is needed in Phuket or Bali, or a farmer or a factory worker, they’re not going to hire a Western guy for that.[00:23:40] And especially not for a Western wage either. They’re gonna have a minimum wage, and they’re gonna have some local do it instead. So there’s absolutely, there’s so many guys as a result who gets in perpetual unemployment because they can’t find jobs in these areas, but they are the boyfriend to a [00:24:00] hot girl.[00:24:00] So a- and as a result of that, they become less attractive over time. They start having existential problems because what is the point? I’m just a gigolo for this woman who earns all the money, and I’m just here for her satisfaction. It,[00:24:15] Malcolm Collins: it becomes- and, and this has been seen with some leaks from like, content producers where, you know, it’ll turn out that their, quote-unquote, manager is actually their boyfriend.[00:24:24] Yeah. And this is just like a common thing that we see over and over again, and I suspect that it’s downstream of what you’re talking about. It’s like, well, I have to find a way to pay the guy to be a, be a, to stay around, right? O- otherwise he’s just gonna go back to whatever he was doing before.[00:24:38] David Lorentzon: Yeah, exactly. So you have this problem where, okay, men, young men and women have chosen so radically different lifestyles that they’re just incompatible with each other. The, the way that you can afford a middle class lifestyle at this point is for both parents to work full-time. In Europe, they have made it, most governments in Europe have made it an explicit goal to minimize and reduce the number of housewives and one income households as much as possible to maximize the employment of women to the greatest extent.[00:25:08] Mm-hmm. And if you were to do that, then y- you’re just gonna have this permanent segregation because where women find jobs that they enjoy, that they find meaningful, is gonna be in a geographically separate location than where the men are. And what we can do is we can, I can s- put up a, I’m gonna put up a m- image of the US to show what I’m talking about.[00:25:35] So this is the year, I’ve showed this before on the last show- Yeah ... right?[00:25:38] Simone Collins: Yes.[00:25:38] David Lorentzon: So this shows that, okay, w- in blue you have highly male majority areas of the US, and in red you have heavily female majority places in the whole country.[00:25:51] And if you were, you can see that, okay, the Midwest is more blue urban, urban areas are more red, while the rural areas are more blue. So it’s more ma- men in the countryside and the small towns, and it’s more women in the big cities, right? So you already have some segregation. Now, if we look at the next map, we can see how this shifted in 20 years’ time And you can see that the number of blue counties in the US literally doubled in 20 years.[00:26:18] Wow. The sex ratio is the same, but the number of blue counties doubled, which just goes to show that women have, in the millions, left small towns, left the countryside, and moved into the major urban areas.[00:26:32] Malcolm Collins: Yeah. W- we’re talking about per- percentage points of the, of the total population at this point.[00:26:36] David Lorentzon: Yes.[00:26:36] And when I looked at year over year, this accelerated especially during the Great Recession of the US. That’s when most of this change happened.[00:26:45] Because that’s when households all across the US were no longer able to have a one-income household. You had a bunch of divorces. The woman, the wife, the ex-wife now have to find employment.[00:26:57] There is no employments nearby. She moves into a city. And the daughters, let’s say the millennial daughters, the Zoomer daughters, they grew up with this traumatic experience and say that, “Okay, I can’t be financially reliant upon my husband, so I... it is important for me to build up my own finances. It’s important for me to get an education, to get a job, to get a career so that I don’t end up in the same situation as my mother did during the Great Recession.”[00:27:24] And so both the mothers and the daughters moving into the cities and creating this enormous segregation in the economy. And w- I watched this whole birthrate debate that you were on, Simone. Yeah. And after, at the very end of the debate, you all came to the agreement that forming relationships is the problem.[00:27:47] There seems to be a ma- massive problem with people n- unable to form relationships. And for me, I was all... I was on at the top of my chair almost screaming, like, “ I have given you the answer, Simone. You know the answer. I’ve [00:28:00] given... Yes, I’m random sweet a year ago, but still, I have a great answer for this challenge, for the why relationships have a difficulty forming.”[00:28:08] It’s a, it’s a geography problem. Men are over here, women are over there. They can’t find a common ground where they both have full-time employment at their chosen careers. And so if you want the male-abundant areas to pair up with the female-abundant areas, one of them is gonna have to lose their job, but then their lifestyle is unaffordable because both of them have to work to afford the middle class lifestyle.[00:28:34] So you have this, this, this connection between geography, economics, and relationships that just ma- means that it’s more... it’s, it’s become financially unviable for a lot of relationships to take form You know, you can’t just... A lot of these women, they have taken on debt, student loan debt, so they can’t just become unemployed again.[00:28:53] They have to service that debt that they have accumulated from their, their years in college. Maybe they have started a new business and they have taken on debt on that business.[00:29:02] But that business requires a particular area with a particular network, so you can’t just move that business anywhere.[00:29:09] So women are stuck in the cities with, you know, their particular housing, their particular job, while men are stuck out in the countryside with their particular job. So when you realize and see this problem, the solution to how we can increase the birth rate becomes a little bit more clear in that we have to break the gender segregation of the economy.[00:29:28] We have to find ways to move female-dominated jobs out into, into small towns and small areas, while you have to find ways to find, let’s say, male-dominated jobs into the cities. I have studied polymer engineering. I got to see a lot of factories and industrial areas. Something that I observed and noticed was that as major cities grew bigger and bigger, they industrialized because they didn’t have enough energy for the factories anymore, and it was very expensive to keep demolishing and building a better energy grid just as the population grew.[00:30:01] So if you have, let’s say, a bunch of factories and population growth at the same time, you’re incentivized to close down those factories so that you have more energy available to, for more housing. And instead of having industrial jobs, you have service jobs just becoming a more dominant sphere in the cities.[00:30:19] So as my country, Sweden, we didn’t lose our factories, we didn’t lose those industrial companies, but we did lose a lot of jobs due to automation because we’re just more automated than the US. But our cities, Stockholm, Gothenburg, they lost industry, but other areas far away from the cities got the factories, got those jobs, making this gender segregation even more extreme.[00:30:42] So you have most... You think about the Tesla, the mega factory in Texas, that’s like far away from any major city because no major city has enough grid and enough electricity to have these industrial jobs there. And you have the same thing with the AI da- data centers. They, the energy grid basically dictate where they can be located.[00:31:04] So if you think about solutions to how you break this gender segregation is that, okay, male jobs tend to use up more energy, so you have to find ways to get more energy into the cities. Then you can have more industry jobs in the cities, and then you get more-- you even out these gender imbalances, and that way you can find local men of good quality where you live as a woman, right?[00:31:27] And maybe you can also compartmentalize all various government jobs that are female-dominated. You know, take a 500 office building, split it up, move some of those office jobs that women do out into smaller towns. That way you get more of a gender mix And that[00:31:49] Malcolm Collins: could be- Well, I mean, you, you could try to solve that at a, at a government level.[00:31:52] I mean, th- that doesn’t really- Yeah ... that, that does disrupt the ve- females in cities more often pipeline, but it doesn’t disrupt the hot girl [00:32:00] economies- No ... to that extent. A- and one of the things about hot girl economies, where if you’re wondering why they all start to sell to each other, I suspect in why they would start like a the Pilates studio for the hot girls, the whatever for the hot girls, it’s largely, I would assume, because of the extremely social nature of the hot girl economy among the hot girls.[00:32:21] Like you would naturally know the girls who know that they have to transition into whatever they’re doing next, and then so they start their side hustle of the Pilates studio or whatever and then they can utilize that a- a- as well. I mean, another thing that’s part of the hot girls economy is that the social connections a person has within a region are important for new entrants’ ability to make money.[00:32:44] You know, who knows the, the shake networks and everything like that. And so the people who’ve been there a bit longer you know, obviously you do eventually age out, but it provides you with a bit more of a cover on that stuff. In terms of I don’t think moving men into cities is, is likely a good answer because, like, the marginal number of men you could move into cities by...[00:33:06] Like eve- even think about it. So you put a Tesla factory in a city, you put a data center in a city. Now it immediately gets regulated to high hell, and it’s not... Like we’re, we, we’re not dictator. Like, we don’t control all of society. Even if we won that particular battle it would soon become economically unviable.[00:33:23] It, it’s, it’s like where do we have potential influence? You can try to make rural environments more palatable for service jobs. Yeah. But I[00:33:34] Simone Collins: feel like that’s also the ha- No, that’s, that’s not gonna... Here’s the other problem that this whole issue is going to... Once women habituate to this extremely glamorous lifestyle, even if their only option going forward is to, say, become a stay-at-home wife or, like, to get a job job, they are not going to do anything involving men.[00:33:57] Like, it would be a less glamorous lifestyle. And I think a, a really key thing that Malcolm talks about in The Pragmatist’s Guide to Relationships is people’s money, like, their spending set point. And you have to make sure that when you meet a partner and decide to commit to them and living with them, you need to understand, like, the level of, like, annual burn they will im- need.[00:34:19] Some people are only gonna be happy if they are torching $500,000 a year on, like, their apartment and their clothing and everything else, whereas other people are really happy with a lot less, and you need to know what you’re getting into. But I think anyone who habituates to this kind of lifestyle, they’re likely flying business based on the nature of their work.[00:34:40] They’re likely living, if not necessarily able to afford, but living in luxury apartment high-rises that are new construction. Maybe they’re cheap, maybe they’re terrible, but they look really good and for, like, three years they’ll look really good, and they just move from one to the next. So they don’t know what it’s like- Yeah[00:34:56] to be in that crumbling building. And they are very used to going out and eating and having very fancy things and having everything given to them. So they’re like the hyper version of, of someone who’s habituated to being a really hot woman in her 20s and just being catered to, and then they don’t understand that when they reach a certain life stage they’re gonna need to lower their standards, and so they just don’t, and so then they just live alone forever.[00:35:20] I feel like this is largely- Yeah ... a group of women that isn’t n- It’s worth discussing and understanding who they are, but I think they’re largely just going to have to be written off because they are, they are un- unmarriable and, and un- insatiable in their set points in terms of financial need. So they, they won’t be able to make themselves happy, and no one else will be able to make them happy.[00:35:44] Plus, they aren’t going to be willing to do drudge work or unglamorous work in exchange for compensation because they’re so accustomed to it. Are these the girls? Like, I don’t know if fresh and fit’s still a thing, but like there are all these like guy podcasts where there’s like a bunch of [00:36:00] really hot girls like all sitting around the table talking about like whatever it is that they’re discussing.[00:36:05] And I always wonder like who are these women? Like we were once on the Just Pearly Thing podcast. And this was in London. Like this is not in Dubai. This was just whatever. And there were a bunch of hot girls that showed up. It was a very weird experience. There was just this random apartment building in London that we went to.[00:36:22] Do you remember this, Malcolm?[00:36:23] Malcolm Collins: Yeah.[00:36:23] Simone Collins: And like we all waited in the lobby of this apartment building, and then just like a bunch of young people in their... ‘Cause we’re old. Young people in their 20s started showing up, and it was mostly like hot young girls. And like one looked... It’s like she was trying to be hard, part of the hot girl service economy.[00:36:39] She had traveled for like six hours out of the middle of nowhere but was like dolled up to high heaven and like talking about... Everyone was on, on their Instagram accounts. Everyone was trying to like break out as a model or a DJ or something like that.[00:36:53] Malcolm Collins: Oh, God, yes. Everybody had their thing they were trying to be.[00:36:56] It was a bunch of like DJs and models and, “Oh, I’m on X, I’m this important.” And the like Pearl Davis, if anybody’s actually... She’s always surrounded by like, these giant Black guys that look like rappers. Mm. And are like covered in like chains and stuff like that. Like it’s clearly like she’s in a version of the hot girl economy which is actually somewhat ironic given her branding and everything like that, that that’s the social circle that sucked her down a, a, a hole,[00:37:24] Simone Collins: Yeah,[00:37:25] Malcolm Collins: it’s[00:37:25] Simone Collins: weird[00:37:25] Malcolm Collins: but it, it, it, yeah, instead of like trying to hang out with the actual trads or whatever, which would’ve been so easy for her.[00:37:31] Simone Collins: But I was trying to talk with these people and like understand their lives and like how they- Oh, they were[00:37:35] Malcolm Collins: so vapid ...[00:37:36] Simone Collins: how they oriented toward reality. Yeah, like there was sort of- There were some narratives of like I came from nothing, I built this for myself, and I think that might be a big part of the hot girl service economy is what these women have is they’re hot, and they know how to be hot.[00:37:51] And one of the reasons they’re choosing this pathway is unlike hot trust fund girls or hot like, you know, upper middle class girls who’ve like gone to private school or who’ve gone to a good public school, whatever, like who like have more of a foundation, they’re like, “This is my shot. I’m gonna take it.”[00:38:07] But it was s- there was a level-[00:38:09] Malcolm Collins: That’s a good point. If you’re of middling intelligence and super hot, like this is a very hard pathway to talk you out of, right? Like, it... Because you’re, you’re just actually don’t, or lazy, you don’t have that many other options.[00:38:23] Simone Collins: But then were they great marriage prospects to begin with?[00:38:26] I mean, I think we’ve also seen on Caleb Hammer’s Financial Audit, like examples of, of women who are in the hot girl service economy. ‘Cause Caleb will ask them like, “So what do you do for work?” And they’re like, “Well, I’m, you know, I’m a spiritual life coach.” That, there was one of, that was one of the ones. I don’t know if you saw that one.[00:38:41] It sounds like you saw that one. And it’s like that she was in the hot girl service economy. Exactly. And there was nothing there. And, and, and she’s like, “Well...” And, and you could see that like she was just making money from people who like felt sorry for her or felt obligated to spend money on her in this cultural subset.[00:38:56] But they’re so, like, they’re, they’re in debt, they’re financially toxic, they’re never gonna be happy, and yeah, there’s... When you actually look at[00:39:03] Malcolm Collins: what they’re spending- But I think the way that this is solved more than through policy is through social shaming. This is l- predominantly how society used to solve this, which,[00:39:12] Simone Collins: which- No, Malcolm, and, and th- that’s the whole point of the hot girl service economy is it is, it is, it is a bubble in the same way that orthodox, hyper-orthodox, isolated[00:39:21] Malcolm Collins: Jewish communities are No, no, no, no, no, no.[00:39:22] It’s not a, a... It is a bubble within itself, but it is not a bubble when it comes to where its income and views come from.[00:39:29] Simone Collins: Oh.[00:39:29] Malcolm Collins: And that- Right ... is where the shaming needs to go. The, as I’ve said on other shows, guys need to understand, like, something like paying for OnlyFans within our wider community should be seen really, really bad.[00:39:43] Like, I’d put that, like, a smidge away from, like, being a pedophile. Okay? Like, it is, it is the externalities, the negative externalities to society of you paying for an OnlyFans is not, like, a degree worse than pornography or something like [00:40:00] that. It is astronomically worse because it creates this funnel at the top of society.[00:40:06] It’s the same as hanging out on Instagram and looking at hot girls or any of these types of things. That, and in addition to that having people know, like, when they’re growing up or when they’re adjacent to our communities how actively disgusting we, as a community, view the type... I mean, the Miami girl.[00:40:28] I’ve said on this podcast over and over again, I find that whole thing disgusting, like, the way they dress, the way they act, the way they move. Malcolm really doesn’t like it. And the guys who want to show off. No, if guys can’t show off with these girls, because that’s one of the number one ways that the hot girl service economy is used, is not for sex, as many people presume, but it’s for guys to show social status.[00:40:52] If you remove the social status of being surrounded by women like this, like, if you tell an Andrew Tate- Oh, my[00:40:57] Simone Collins: God ... or[00:40:58] Malcolm Collins: anyone surrounded[00:40:59] Simone Collins: by his community- Oh, I’m not gonna name him, but Malcolm, do you remember the guy who used to come into our office and just- Yeah ... would, like, talk at everyone for a really long period of time?[00:41:07] And he would, like, talk about how, like, he had some hot woman come back to his apartment, and she’d, like, steal his Rolex. But, like, it’s such a world where there’s just, like, you go out clubbing in Miami, and, like, there’s some crazy hot woman, and you bring her home, and she will steal your Rolex collection.[00:41:23] But no, it... I don’t know. I t- he’s not going to be shamed by anyone[00:41:28] Malcolm Collins: No, no. He is unaware. He does everything he does because he thinks it pr- the reason why he would go in there and talk to us is because he wanted us to affirm this view he had of himself as a high status, cool person. Where if you’re like, you know, that I mean, we’re trying to get money out of him, so whatever, right?[00:41:48] Like, but if you’re not in[00:41:50] Simone Collins: that position- But that’s, no, but like I think, I think that’s a thing also, is that everyone sees both the, the isolated men paying into this economy and the women participating in it as chumps who are easy to exploit. It’s easy to make money off of them. No,[00:42:03] Malcolm Collins: no, no. They won’t-[00:42:04] Simone Collins: It’s[00:42:04] Malcolm Collins: very easy to create shaming around this.[00:42:06] Like, consider our wider community, right, Simone? If you look at the parts of our community that abut the manosphere, right? If you can normalize within the manosphere shaming guys who associate with women like this, which is a lot of leading figures in the manosphere it[00:42:26] Simone Collins: is not[00:42:28] Malcolm Collins: just the incels- But what if this, no, what if this though- It’s the, you, you look at the Fresh and Fit podcast, you look at the...[00:42:31] You just say, “You guys are hanging out with, like, disgusting women.” What[00:42:35] Simone Collins: if they’re too dumb to be shamed?[00:42:38] Malcolm Collins: What?[00:42:39] Simone Collins: What if they’re too dumb to be shamed? Look, like-[00:42:41] Malcolm Collins: No. Look- No one is too dumb. Dumb people[00:42:43] Simone Collins: respond to shaming more ... no, no, okay, okay, Malcolm, Malcolm, okay. We, we have, we have kids, right? They love making poop jokes.[00:42:47] We can’t be like, “Well, that’s a stupid joke.” They’ll be like, “Ah, poopy butt face.” Like, you can’t shame- Right, because- You can’t shame our kids ...[00:42:54] Malcolm Collins: those are our kids, Simone.[00:42:55] Simone Collins: Wait, that’s, okay. These people- David, David has a point.[00:42:58] Malcolm Collins: Okay.[00:42:58] David Lorentzon: Yeah. And I don’t think we are gonna ne- have to resort to shaming, because the reason that I brought hot girl service economy up is because I believe it’s under a very big and looming threat, that it will all- Yeah[00:43:11] come crashing. Because if you look at what’s happening with the Iran war It is blocking, you know, a lot of the fertilizer, the food, the oil and everything, but it’s also blocking the Dubai Airport. It’s also restricting and making any businesses in Dubai unprofitable, right? But that also connects to Bali, it also connects to Phuket.[00:43:35] Oh, my God. And if I- and if you look at what the economic crashes of these various places after the Great Recession and after COVID, these places crash harder than the rest of the world does. Yeah. It’s super sensitive. Basically, the hot girl service economy heavily relies upon American empire keeping world peace, keeping global stability, [00:44:00] and when the American empire can no longer do that, then the, one of the economies that’s gonna suffer the most is the hot girl service economy because they have to globally travel all the time.[00:44:10] So- So[00:44:11] Simone Collins: you’re saying, wait, that Trump, i- the real reason he-[00:44:15] David Lorentzon: A lot of girls will be coming home. Yeah.[00:44:18] Simone Collins: That’s, yeah, so Trump single-handedly, maybe without even knowing it, maybe this was his 5D chess move, guys.[00:44:23] David Lorentzon: It is.[00:44:24] Simone Collins: S- he, he killed the hot girl service economy. All he had to do was go to war with Iran. But-[00:44:31] David Lorentzon: Yeah[00:44:31] Simone Collins: gentlemen, all the hot girls, they’re coming home. Yeah. We got ‘em, boys. It’s okay. Y-[00:44:37] David Lorentzon: yeah, yeah. This is gonna... I believe that this coming winter, when the world is going through a massive recession, it’s gonna make whatever business these hot girls had in Phuket, Bali or Dubai extremely unprofitable. They’re gonna fail, they’re gonna go bankrupt.[00:44:52] They will be coming home to their home countries. They are going to have to look for a man because they don’t have a community.[00:44:59] Simone Collins: Oh. Gentlemen-[00:45:02] David Lorentzon: The girls,[00:45:03] Simone Collins: the hot girls are coming[00:45:04] David Lorentzon: home ...[00:45:05] Simone Collins: give up your gym memberships. Yes. They’re th- they’re, they’re coming home to roost. Time to get hot. Get ready for this winter because you have hot girl summer and you’re gonna have desperate hot girl w- winter, Exactly[00:45:15] winter is coming. So- I’m so excited for that.[00:45:17] David Lorentzon: Yeah, this is- Amazing ... you’re gonna see a lot of women b***h online that they won’t be able to even travel to Phuket or Bali because there’s gonna be jet fuel crisis.[00:45:28] Simone Collins: Yeah.[00:45:28] David Lorentzon: Then they’re gonna do rationing, then they’re gonna do limit severe restrictions and say that, “Okay, only half p- half of the plane got booked.[00:45:37] This is unprofitable. We’re just canceling the flights altogether.” Suddenly you have maybe a fraction of the customers you would otherwise have in Bali and Phuket. You’re gonna, you’re gonna go bankrupt, you’re gonna start having financial problems, and you’re gonna have to be home where there’s no community.[00:45:54] That makes you extremely desperate to find someone with a community To survive. So all of these hot girls that are in their 20s, 30s, and 40s, that’s what they’re gonna do this winter. They’re gonna go aggressive, and they’re going to s- find a way to survive in their home countries.[00:46:15] Simone Collins: Oh, that’s delightful.[00:46:16] David Lorentzon: And-[00:46:17] Malcolm Collins: I, I like that Yeah, this, this assumes a economic crash coming this winter, which- Yeah ... I mean, the assumptions around an economic crash tied to the war have largely been wrong because[00:46:30] Simone Collins: well- travel industry. So Malcolm, there’s a difference between the performance of the economy and the performance of the travel industry, and we know from our perspective in the travel industry- That, that is true.[00:46:38] Malcolm Collins: That is true, yes.[00:46:39] Simone Collins: Yes ... that, th- that is what he’s talking about. He’s talking about- Yes ... also, like, the tourist industry in Dubai is in a state of crisis right now. It is. And the primary reason- It’s true ... why we’re not allowed to know about it is that as a social media creator, you cannot by law say negative things about stuff that’s going on in Dubai.[00:46:56] They will send their famously attractive social media police to come have a friendly chat with you, and the next time it won’t be so friendly, and they might send the ugly social media police to come and get you. And- oh, God ...[00:47:07] David Lorentzon: and i- if you look at for, for example, the various oil reserves across Europe and the US, they’re expected to basically run out in September, so if this war con- this blockade continues for another month, then we’re gonna be in-[00:47:18] Malcolm Collins: Well, no, e- even if they run out, so, what a lot of people aren’t aware of and we’re gonna do another video on this in the near future, but 74 to 75% of the reduction in oil that has happened because of the war came from China consuming- Yes[00:47:33] less oil. Yes. In fact, China consuming less oil contributed more to the global oil supply than every European country that has released its oil, oil reserve and the United States combined. Yeah. Double that. And a lot of people- I know ... are just unaware of this. It, China has basically, their economy has silently collapsed, and it’s prevented the rest of the world from going into a re- major recession ironically because it made the cost of oil elastic, which normally it isn’t.[00:47:59] And this [00:48:00] is a whole other thing to go into. Yeah. Yeah,[00:48:02] David Lorentzon: yeah. But it, it, it’s not just the oil. You know, you have these other important industrial products- True. Yeah ... that will basically mean that we have 30% less tech, 30% less copper, and it’s, even if the oil is fine, the fertilizer, the sulfuric acid, the helium will basically mean that, okay, there’s gonna be a famine.[00:48:22] There’s gonna be food migrants. You’re gonna have to block the food migrants using planes, so you’re gonna have to im- i- enforce travel restrictions to stop the food migrants coming from Indonesia and India and so on. So you’re just not gonna be able to travel to these tropical paradises from Europe and the US like you used to.[00:48:40] So a lot of these girls as a result will have to completely change their lifestyles. They’re gonna have to go Back to normal Western life. And that’s what makes this so interesting. And, you know, with every kind of crisis like this, it, there’s an opportunity, and there’s gonna be this technological transformation, I think, where a lot of these models are gonna get replaced by AI.[00:49:05] It just makes sense that you replace them- Oh, yeah ... with AI. And if you have these enormous recession, global recession, that’s just gonna create the acceleration, the gl- the pressure point to move away completely from having models that get paid tens of thousands of dollars to instead just run an AI that is now sufficiently capable of doing everything you want for a tiny fraction of the price.[00:49:30] Malcolm Collins: Because a lot of these- Well, I mean, another thing that’s gonna hugely affect the hot girl economy is it’s going to have to become much more what’s the word? Ar- ar- art- artisanal. In, in a world where AI women are, hot AI women are increasingly becoming easier and easier to produce with a degree of fidelity that the average dumb butt who likes hot, hot...[00:49:53] The, the types of i- girls in the hot girl economy the men that they are appealing to are not the greatest and the best in terms of discernment. The types of girls who, like the big butt Miami girl appeals to, is not the greatest and the best. And these are the guys- Oh,[00:50:08] Simone Collins: yeah ...[00:50:08] Malcolm Collins: who are going to go for the AI bots because they can’t tell the difference and already most people can’t tell the difference.[00:50:15] Yeah. They’re definitely not gonna be able to tell the difference in, like, six months. And so these girls are going to have to increasingly either submit to just being sex slaves or actually go out and rejoin the economy.[00:50:27] David Lorentzon: Yeah. Exactly. So this looming AI revolution, it’s just gonna... This crisis that’s coming is just gonna accelerate the replacement, especially in this service economy.[00:50:39] I mean, the, being a model, that’s gotta be one of the easiest jobs to replace with this, these very advanced AIs at this point.[00:50:46] Malcolm Collins: Yeah. I mean, it’s a good point. Like, I mean, we, we for rfab.ai, we model our chatbots on various sites, like not safe for work sites that we would typically be hiring a model to do, like, film shoots, and we are just using the website’s own not safe for work AI video generation because, like, we can do that[00:51:06] David Lorentzon: Yeah, exactly[00:51:07] Simone Collins: Very convenient.[00:51:07] So- There you go. That’s,[00:51:07] David Lorentzon: I believe that now is a good time to basically, in the West, start advocating for travel rehab centers because-[00:51:13] Simone Collins: Travel rehab centers.[00:51:16] David Lorentzon: Yeah, no joke. The, these women are going to be severely depressed. They’re gonna need to find new groups, new friends. Having a bunch of rehab centers for the travel addicted people-[00:51:26] Malcolm Collins: is going to be- I don’t know ... really good for them ... they can, they can stay in Dubai. I mean, I think the ones who got sucked into this, they’re not really useful to anyone else anymore. Oh, boy ... like psychologically speaking, they’re kinda done.[00:51:35] Simone Collins: You’re just writing them off. Look, I think they, they’re gonna figure it out.[00:51:39] I, I do think that the w- women of all types can, can have a very short-term memory and very adaptable identities. Yes. I think that women are, can be like chameleons. You drop them in a new social environment and context, and they will now play that game. And if you were to drop them immediately into a Pentecostal super conservative religious community in [00:52:00] Alabama They will, they can, they could adapt to that- They’ll, they’ll play[00:52:04] Malcolm Collins: that[00:52:04] Simone Collins: game, yes[00:52:05] like very well. Yes. Yes. Exactly. And so I, I think I- So- ... David is giving me hope. I could totally see it because we know even from what we’re seeing of trends within the travel industry that we have as insiders in that space, like, yeah, the travel industry’s entering a, a, a tough period. And while there are definitely gonna always be people and women who travel like this, I think there is a critical mass that is needed for these communities.[00:52:27] And the, weirdly enough, the Iraq War, plus some other factors demographically driven, you know, and just, like, countries’ social systems kind of falling apart and, and cities kind of going downhill due to migratory patterns shifting, et cetera, is going to lead more and more women to leave these communities to the point where there’s a loss of critical mass.[00:52:45] ‘Cause to your point, the hot girl service economy will stop functioning after there isn’t a sufficient critical mass of women to trade services- Yes ... to each other. Like you need- Yes ... a diverse hot girl economy. If you don’t have the hairdresser and the mystical life coach and the yoga- And the[00:53:03] David Lorentzon: cosmetologist.[00:53:04] Simone Collins: Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Then, like, that’s all gonna start to fall apart. So. Exactly. Okay, David, thank you so much for for sharing this with us. Where should people go if they want to read more of your research on arbitrage opportunities for men and, like, what’s going on demographically with, like, the gender separation and speciation- Right[00:53:20] of our genders?[00:53:21] David Lorentzon: So this year I have s- made sure to start my TikTok, X, and YouTube, so be sure to include the links on, in the description, and you can follow me there. I’m trying to do everything in English, do s- content there where I present my research and ideas because I’m sitting on so much of it that it’s, it’s a shame of me not doing this sooner, so.[00:53:44] Simone Collins: Yeah. Right? I’m glad. And it’s good you’re doing short form. So should they also just look up David Lorenzen? Is- Yes ... is that kind of okay? Yes. Yeah. Perfect.[00:53:50] David Lorentzon: I, I got David Lorenzen on everything, right?[00:53:53] Simone Collins: Perfect. Okay. Good. Well, thank you so much- Great ... for coming on.[00:53:56] Malcolm Collins: Good for coming on and for paid users. So anybody who wants to pay for the Substack, we do weekend episodes.[00:54:00] We’re about to film a weekend episode with him as well, where we’re going to look at the way different ethnicities act in hotels in Europe. V- v- kind of a spicy episode.[00:54:09] Simone Collins: I’m dying for this one. I’m so excited. So yeah. All right. All right. Thank you, everyone.[00:54:15] Bye.[00:54:17] Speaker: You, Octavian. Here you go. They’re so pretty. This one’s the biggest. Yeah, the biggest. Wow. Oh, nom, nom, nom, nom, nom. I want open the gummies. Okay, Andy. Uh-huh, here we go Wow. Is this your favorite food in the whole world? In the whole world. In the whole world.[00:54:38] In the whole world. Let’s go to Steak and Donna. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit basedcamppodcast.substack.com/subscribe