A men’s breakfast can be fun and still have a greater purpose than eating and conversation. When organized with a larger objective in mind it can be a great way to bless people and a means to live out the Gospel. Today’s episode is about my Men with Waffles breakfast and the impact it had on others not even in the room. Especially women. Breakfast with a friend  A few weeks ago my friend Randy was in town for the Christmas holiday. We used to go to the same church, but his job change meant a move to Pittsburgh. He and his wife are still closely connected with friends they have back in Wisconsin where I live, and they try to get back here at least once a year to see everyone. Before Randy got to town he texted me and asked if we could meet during his Christmas visit to Wisconsin. It’s always an invitation I cannot turn down. So we got together for breakfast one morning. We caught up on each other’s lives in ways that seemed like he had never moved away, even though it’s been almost 9 years. That’s the way it is with good friends you haven’t seen in a while. When it came time to order, I chose eggs. Randy ordered a waffle. This unimportant event reminded me of waffles in a more significant context that Randy and I were part of several years ago. I’ll you about it. It’s my Men with Waffles story. This calls for a men's breakfast It happened during the time I was teaching an adult Sunday school class at our church. Randy and his wife Kathy were part of that class. My story picks up after the class took a break for Christmas one year. We resumed shortly after the new year, and at the beginning of that first class of the year, we chatted about how everyone’s Christmas went. It was then we all discovered something unusual.  Five men in our class of about 30-35 received a waffle maker for a Christmas gift. All of the waffle maker recipients were husbands, which to me seemed a high parentage of the class to have received this uncommon Christmas gift. I don’t think any of the wives collaborated on these gifts for their husbands.   Although I did hear a rumor of an unmarked white box car parked near the church one day, selling shrimp, pictures of Elvis on black velvet, and … waffle makers. It’s just a rumor, so don’t quote me on it. Anyway, here we have 5 guys with brand-new waffle makers. It just seemed fitting that we needed to do something to note this out-of-the-ordinary event. So I talked it over with my wife, Janet, and got her okay to host a men’s breakfast at our house where the 5 men with their new waffle makers would bring them and make waffles for all the guys in our class. Event planning We set a date for a Saturday morning that most all of the men could attend. Those with the waffle makers were to bring them and all the necessary ingredients to serve everyone.  In addition to waffle batter, guys brought fresh strawberries, whipped cream, sausages, and orange juice. I supplied coffee, plates, and utensils. It was a feast! In planning for this men's breakfast, I wanted to add a little structure to it that went beyond just men with waffles sitting around and talking for a few hours about what men usually talk about when women aren’t around. You know, their children, their mother, and what they were making for supper that night. Things like that. So here’s what I did. I set up an easel with a flip chart with pages of blank butcher paper about 2½ by 3’  in size.  And before we started the waffle extravaganza, I said to the guys something along the lines of  Sometime this morning, in between eating your waffles, I’d like each of you to come over to this easel, take a marker and write down on the butcher paper one thing you appreciate about your wife. One sheet of paper per guy, then rip off the paper when you’re done. When we finish eating we’ll go around and each person gets to share what they wrote. With that, the waffle-making commenced. I thought the men who were not making waffles would come over right away to write something on the paper. They didn’t. not one. Was this men's breakfast a mistake? “Oh great, I thought. This is surely going to bomb. They just want their waffles and nothing more. What was I thinking? How embarrassing. What a dumb idea.” Well, at least the waffle makers will get a proper inauguration, and everyone will be fed, I thought. I must say, the waffles with all the trimmings were magnificent! My friend Randy was there and he will testify to it. They were far more impressive than the waffle he ordered at our recent breakfast. I made sure to take photos of the whole event. I’d be happy to show them to you after dinner at your house sometime. Wednesdays work best for me, though I’m flexible. The last time I mentioned this one of our listeners actually had Janet and me for a delicious soup supper.  It was on a Saturday evening, so you see I am flexible. Anyway, as we were eating and talking I tried not to think about how no one was going over to the easel to write anything. But then to my relief, the guys did start to trickle over to the easel to do what I asked, like slow drops of water dripping off an icicle on your roof when its 34 degrees outside. What husbands wrote Slowly, one by one they came. Each one writing down one thing they appreciated about their wife, then ripping off the paper and rolling it up to take with them. As we finished eating our waffles (did I mention it was a gastronomic delight?) and then cleaning up the kitchen, we found our way into our living room. With everyone seated, I then asked each guy to show what they wrote. Mike wrote, “I appreciate how Vicki plans fun things and makes everything more fun!” Bill wrote, “I love Rachel’s tender lovingkindness” Scott’s butcher paper read in big bold letters, “I appreciate how Marci makes me laugh after a stressful day t work.” Dick wrote this about his wife, “I appreciate Kathy for her loving and caring nature.” Gregg’s sheet of paper read, “I appreciate Marian’s sense of adventure and insights into relationships.” Another Mike in our group wrote, “I appreciate Gail’s sense of humor and her ability to make me laugh.” Brad wrote, “I appreciate Elizabeth’s steadiness and her reality check.” Randy, our friend who later moved to Pittsburgh, wrote, “I appreciate Kathy’s genuine faith and her love for our daughter Molly.” And then I wrote, “I appreciate Janet’s sky blue eyes, her wisdom, and her love for our kids and grandchildren. There was one more from Allen, which I will tell you about in a minute. After everyone shared what they appreciated about their wives, guys hung around for a while and then left. The men’s breakfast aftermath With everyone gone, I then went through all the photos I took and arranged them in a slide presentation to show the next morning in our Sunday School class so the wives could see what their husbands wrote.  There were photos of making the waffles, candid shots of men sitting around talking, and most importantly, an individual photo of each husband holding up a large piece of paper on which he wrote something he appreciated about his wife. To the photos in the slideshow, I added a soundtrack. A recording of the late Nat King Cole singing “Unforgettable,” with his daughter Natalie Cole dubbed in to accompany him to create a romantic ballad duet. So imagine you’re a woman in this class and you see this slide presentation of what these men wrote, accompanied by Natalie Cole and her late father singing “Unforgettable.” So many “oohs” and “ah’s.” The loudest of which came at the end when the photo of Allen appeared and what he appreciated about his wife. Allen was a man of few words.  I think it’s fair to say he was the quietest man in our church. On his butcher paper he wrote in large bold letters simply, “I appreciate Carol.” He couldn’t bring himself to name just one thing he appreciated about his wife, it was Carol in her totality that he appreciated. The ladies loved it. A men’s breakfast with a purpose Now you might be thinking why would I do such a thing? I mean what does our men with waffles breakfast have to do with church and studying the bible?  My answer is everything. Everything in the 12th chapter of the Book of Romans, especially verse 10 where the apostle Paul writes, “Love each other with genuine affection and take delight in honoring each other.” Our class had been studying Romans 12 and what we did at our men with waffles breakfast was one way we could honor the wives in our class - to express what we appreciate about them. So how about you? There are so many ways we can honor people. It benefits the other person, certainly. But it also can bring a measure of delight into the person doing the honoring.  It’s another way to spread a little relational sunshine around the people we meet. It sparks joy in both them and you. Above all, it reflects the character of God. It’s part of God’s character to bless us, to affirm us, and we can do the same thing with others. And you don’t have to organize a men's breakfast like I did. You can honor someone like Randy did with me by saying, “Hey, you want to get together? I’d like to spend some time with you.”  It’s that simple. And it’s that profound. Closing As we close up shop for today, I’d love to hear any thoughts you have about today’s episode. I hope your thinking was stimulated by today’s show, to think of a way you can bless and honor someone by telling them what you appreciate about them. For when you do, it will help you experience the joy of relationships God desires for you. Because after all, You Were Made for This. Well, that’s it for today. If there’s someone in your life you think might like to hear what you just heard, please forward this episode on to them. Scroll down to the bottom of the show notes and click on one of the options in the yellow “Share This” bar. And of course, especially this week, don’t forget to spread a little relational sunshine around the people you meet this week. Spark some joy for them.  And I’ll see you again next time. Goodbye for now. Other episodes or resources related to today’s shows 172: How to Develop Deeper Relationships 139: Why Should I Listen to This Podcast? 021: The Most Important Relationship of All Prior and most recent episode 210: Word of the Year for 2024: Curious All past and future episodes    JohnCertalic.com Our Sponsor You Were Made for This is sponsored by Caring for Others, a missionary care ministry.  Donate Please consider donating to help cover the costs associated with this podcast and the other services we provide missionaries around the world. You can make a tax-deductible contribution to Caring for Others when you click here.  You can also contribute by clicking on the yellow "Donate" box in the upper right corner at the top of the first page.

CURIOUS. It’s my pick for the 2024 Word of the Year. Curious. It’s an important relational skill we need to help us deepen our relationships with others.  Today’s episode is about what happens when we’re not curious about people, and what we can do about it to strengthen our relational curiosity muscles that will enrich our relationships. But before we get into today’s episode, here’s what this podcast is all about.   Welcome to You Were Made for This If you find yourself wanting more from your relationships, you’ve come to the right place. Here you’ll discover practical principles you can use to experience the life-giving relationships you were made for. I’m your host, John Certalic, award-winning author and relationship coach, here to help you find more joy in the relationships God designed for you. To access all past and future episodes, go to the bottom of this page to the yellow "Subscribe" button, then enter your name and email address in the fields above it.  The episodes are organized chronologically and are also searchable by topics, categories, and keywords. Missed opportunities when we’re not curious about people I’m just about finished reading David Brooks’ latest book, How to Know a Person  - The Art of Seeing Others Deeply and Being Deeply Seen. He’s a columnist for The New York Times and The Atlantic, and also a commentator you see every now on then on the PBS NewsHour. I’m really enjoying his book and gave several copies of it to family members this past Christmas. At some point down the road I’ll do a review of the whole book, but for now, I’ll mention one paragraph that jumped out at me. The author tells the story of what happened to him at a dinner party when he was engaged in conversation with some interesting people.  Brooks mentioned conversations like this come naturally to him because his job as a journalist involves interviewing people, asking them questions, and otherwise drawing them out. After the party on the way home, he was reflecting on the conversations he had. And while they were certainly fascinating, they left him feeling empty. He commented that here he was asking all kinds of questions of these interesting people, but no one was curious about anything in his life. No one asked him any questions at all. Not one. Nada. Zilch.   He didn’t mention it in this context, but Brooks as a columnist for two world-class publications, the author of several best-selling books, and a TV commentator - has lived a fascinating life himself. He’s traveled the world in connection with his job and has interviewed several US presidents and rulers of other countries.  Yet no one was curious to ask him any questions.  How sad for Brooks, and even sadder for the people he engaged with at the party.  They missed out. “I’m curious about them, but they’re not with me” Shortly after I read this section in Brooks’ book, one of my grandsons shared a similar story. A few months ago he started his first job out of college in a position he really loves. Plus, he is enjoying getting to know the people he works with. He is much younger than any of his colleagues, but they have taken him under their wings. Two  women in particular go walking together on their lunch hour and they invited my grandson to join them. He describes his relationship with these ladies like this: “I don’t think they realize how much younger I am than them [he’s 21]. They’re probably in their late 30s or early 40s and have been doing the same job I’m doing for a dozen years or so. They’re both moms with young kids in school. And they tell me about all the drama that goes on in their families with their kids. They’re fun people and I enjoy the time we walk together. “But they don’t know one thing about me. They never ask me anything about my life.” My grandson is a genuinely curious person. He’s always asking me questions about what’s going on in my life, and I can easily picture him asking his colleagues about theirs. He’s quite an engaging person so I can see why they invited him on their walks. These are good people he works with, but they’re missing out on learning how a person so different from themselves experiences the world. “I’ve even killed people” Then there’s my friend Dick at our church. We’re a small group, about 25 of us. As part of our Sunday morning service, after the sermon we discuss what the preacher talked about. The discussions are often lively and quite interesting as people share their experiences as they relate to the sermon. One Sunday not too long ago, the post-sermon discussion centered on the grace of God. Our little congregation has varying levels of understanding about this topic, based on what people experienced in other churches they’ve attended in the past. Near the end of this particular discussion, my friend Dick chimed in. He’s in frail health, walks with a cane, and has breathing and balance difficulties. He comes to church with a caregiver who looks after him. When he arrives a couple of the women in our group always give him a big hug. His smile lights up the room when they do. Anyway, in a moment of vulnerability here’s what Dick said in our discussion: “I’m 94 years old and all the things people have just shared are things I’ve been through myself, and more. But no one ever asks me about them. I mean, I’ve even killed people.” It was a sad moment. A sad moment for our church because Dick has wisdom and experience to share if only people were curious enough to ask. Just saying this reminds me I need to act on my curiosity and engage with Dick more. I’m certainly interested in his perspective on the spiritual issues we talk about on Sunday morning, but I’m also curious about his personal life. He grew up during the Depression of the 1930s and I wonder what that was like for him. Oh, and then there’s that small matter of his comment, “I’ve even killed people.” A different kind of law professor I’ll leave you with one last story about being curious. It’s a positive one about  another grandson of mine. Our family was together on Christmas Day and we were catching up on each other’s lives. My grandson George had just completed his first semester of law school and we were asking him how it went. He talked about each of his courses and the professors who taught them. One of his professors in particular impressed me. George explained him like this: “He memorized every one of our names, and there were 75 of us in the class. He taught two other classes and he did the same thing for those, too.  “Then he had each of us come to his office individually over the course of the semester for a short meeting. He said he just wanted to get to know us better. He asked us about our personal lives, our interests, things like that.  “And we got to ask him questions, too. I asked him how he got interested in law in the first place. Then I found out he had a couple of young children, and he told me about his wife, her love of plants, and that he was a big Green Bay Packers fan. No other professor does this. He’s ranked #2 of all the law school professors on that student-rated website.” I’m really happy George has someone like this in his life, and I hope he gets this same professor again for another class. Not just because he was curious enough to find out more about George as a person, but also because he modeled for him what a relationally intelligent person does. They are curious about the lives of people they interact with. But if I’m curious and ask people questions won’t they think I’m being nosy? I’ll let David Brooks answer this question from his book I mentioned earlier, How to Know a Person. In his chapter entitled “The Right Questions” he writes, “While doing research for this book, I interviewed many people - seminar leaders, conversation facilitators, psychologists and focus group moderators, biographers and journalists - whose job is to ask people about their lives. I asked these experts how often somebody looks back at them and says,   ‘None of your d- - - business.’ Every expert I consulted had basically the same answer:  ‘Almost never.’” The author goes on to say, “A 2012 study by Harvard neuroscientists found that people often took more pleasure from sharing information about themselves than from receiving money.”  Let that thought sink in for a moment. People often took more pleasure from sharing information about themselves than from receiving money. Brooks concludes with “Over the course of my career as a journalist I, too, have found that if you respectfully ask people about themselves, they will answer with candor that takes your breath away.  “Studs Terkel was a journalist who collected oral histories over his long career in Chicago. He’d ask people big questions and then sit back and let their answers unfold. ‘Listen, listen, listen, listen, and if you do, people will talk,’ he once observed. ‘They always talk. Why? Because no one has ever listened to them before in all their lives. Perhaps they’ve not ever listened to themselves.’ “Each person is a mystery. And when you are surrounded by mysteries, as the saying goes, it’s best to live life in the form of a question.” What a beautiful way of describing such a profound observation about the human condition. It takes my breath away. So what about you? How curious are you about the people in your life, and do you act on that curiosity? For me, I know now that I need to act on my curiosity about Dick, my 94-year-old-friend from church. I’ve got to find out where his “I’ve killed people” comment comes from. Not just for my benefit, but for his. There’s a story locked up within him somewhere that needs to get out to see the light of day. Imagine what the world would be like if we were all a little more curious about each other. I’m convinced we’d all live deeper and richer lives. So there you have it for the word of the year for 2024. Curious. I’ll be coming back to this word and relational skill in future episodes this year. For now, though, at the bottom of the show notes I’ve listed links to past episodes that touch up the topic of curiosity that you might want to check out. Closing In closing, I’d love to hear any thoughts you have about today’s episode. I hope your thinking was stimulated by today’s show, to become more curious about the people around you, and then to act on that curiosity. For when you do, it will help you experience the joy of relationships God desires for you. Because after all, You Were Made for This. Well, that’s it for today. If there’s someone in your life you think might like to hear what you just heard, please forward this episode on to them. Scroll down to the bottom of the show notes and click on one of the options in the yellow “Share This” bar. And don’t forget to spread a little relational sunshine around the people you meet this week. Spark some joy for them.  And I’ll see you again next time. Goodbye for now. Other episodes or resources related to today’s shows 062: Vaccine Now Available for this Relational Virus 063: Six Reasons Why We’re Not More Curious About People 073: Could Curiosity About Others Minimize Racism? The most recent episodes 209: The Christmas Story in 2023 208: Christmas - A Time to Reflect All past and future episodes    JohnCertalic.com Our Sponsor You Were Made for This is sponsored by Caring for Others, a missionary care ministry. Please consider making a donation to help cover the costs associated with this podcast and the other services we provide missionaries around the world.  You can make a tax-deductible contribution to Caring for Others when you click here. You can also contribute by clicking on the yellow "Donate" box in the upper right corner at the top of the first page.

When you get right down to it, the only thing that really matters in the Christmas story in 2023 is Jesus. No Santa, gifts, or Bing Crosby. Just Jesus. Here's the original story as recorded in Luke's Gospel, just as it happened. I am reading from The Message, by Eugene Peterson. Luke 2: 1-20 The Birth of Jesus  About that time Caesar Augustus ordered a census to be taken throughout the Empire. This was the first census when Quirinius was governor of Syria. Everyone had to travel to his own ancestral hometown to be accounted for. So Joseph went from the Galilean town of Nazareth up to Bethlehem in Judah, David’s town, for the census. As a descendant of David, he had to go there. He went with Mary, his fiancée, who was pregnant.  While they were there, the time came for her to give birth. She gave birth to a son, her firstborn. She wrapped him in a blanket and laid him in a manger, because there was no room in the hostel.  An Event for Everyone  There were shepherds camping in the neighborhood. They had set night watches over their sheep. Suddenly, God’s angel stood among them and God’s glory blazed around them. They were terrified. The angel said, “Don’t be afraid. I’m here to announce a great and joyful event that is meant for everybody, worldwide: A Savior has just been born in David’s town, a Savior who is Messiah and Master. This is what you’re to look for: a baby wrapped in a blanket and lying in a manger.”  At once the angel was joined by a huge angelic choir singing God’s praises:  Glory to God in the heavenly heights, Peace to all men and women on earth who please him.  As the angel choir withdrew into heaven, the shepherds talked it over. “Let’s get over to Bethlehem as fast as we can and see for ourselves what God has revealed to us.” They left, running, and found Mary and Joseph, and the baby lying in the manger. Seeing was believing. They told everyone they met what the angels had said about this child. All who heard the shepherds were impressed.  Mary kept all these things to herself, holding them dear, deep within herself. The shepherds returned and let loose, glorifying and praising God for everything they had heard and seen. It turned out exactly the way they’d been told! ____________ Merry Christmas 2023, everyone. Other episodes or resources related to today’s shows 208: Christmas - A Time to Reflect     207: How to Help the People We Love at Christmas Blog post: The Joy of Christmas Past Our Sponsor You Were Made for This is sponsored by Caring for Others, a missionary care ministry. The generosity of people like you supports our ministry. It enables us to continue this weekly podcast and other services we provide to missionaries around the world.

There are many cultural dimensions to all that is Christmas. Pick your favorite. I have a few that I look forward to every year. But as I get older, I’m seeing Christmas more as a great time to reflect on my relationship with Jesus. In Luke’s gospel, for example, I’m especially drawn to the mother of Jesus, Mary, and how she reflects upon the birth of her son and all that it means to her, both in the present and the future. There are things we can learn from Mary as she takes time to reflect on this most important event in all of history.  Welcome to You Were Made for This If you find yourself wanting more from your relationships, you’ve come to the right place. Here you’ll discover practical principles you can use to experience the life-giving relationships you were made for. To set the scene for when Mary took time to reflect on all that happened at the first Christmas, I’ll read a few verses from Luke’s gospel that tell the story. They’re the ones that occur right after Mary gave birth to Jesus. An angel of the Lord had just appeared to a group of shepherds who were on the job out in the fields tending to their sheep. God’s glory surrounded all of them, having appeared out of nowhere. Quite naturally the shepherds were terrified for they had never seen anything like this.  But the angel, a messenger from God, reassured them and told them there’s nothing to be afraid of because he was there to simply announce that Jesus. the savior, the Messiah the Lord. had been born in Bethlehem. Other angels then appear filling the sky and praising God. What a majestic sight that must have been. After the angels leave We’ll pick up the story in chapter 2 of Luke’s Gospel, verse 15. Luke writes: When the angels had left them and gone into heaven, the shepherds said to one another, “Let’s go to Bethlehem and see this thing that has happened, which the Lord has told us about.” So they hurried off and found Mary and Joseph, and the baby, who was lying in the manger. When they had seen him, they spread the word concerning what had been told them about this child, and all who heard it were amazed at what the shepherds said to them. But Mary treasured up all these things and pondered them in her heart.  It’s this last line that has captained me lately, But Mary treasured up all these things and pondered them in her heart. Two important actions going on There are two important verbs in the sentence I just read, “treasured” and “pondered.” at least that’s how the New International translation renders them.  Other translations use the phrase “Mary kept all these things in  her heart” rather than “treasure.” For the verb “Pondered,” other translations use “thought about them often.” But the translation I like best is the New International Bible Reader’s Version  which translates Luke 2:19 like this, But Mary kept all these things like a secret treasure in her heart. She thought about them over and over.  What are the “these things” of Christmas Regardless of how you translate the two verbs in this verse, the noun phrase that is the object of the first sentence in the verse is always translated the same, “these things.” But what are the things Mary was keeping, or treasuring, and pondering or thinking about over and over? It’s one of the beautiful mysteries of the Christmas story that’s worth taking the time to reflect upon. I imagine Mary obviously reflecting upon what the shepherds told her about the angel of the Lord appearing to them and how terrifying it was. But how their fear turned to joy when the angel told them not to be afraid because  Today in the town of David a Savior has been born to you; he is the Messiah, the Lord. What a comforting independent confirmation that what the angel Gabriel told Mary when he visited her 9 months earlier was actually true! This truth alone is like a treasure worth appreciating over and over again. What Gabriel told her wasn’t something she just imagined. The sky was full of angels confirming this was all true. But there are a few other less obvious “these things” The “all these things” phrase Luke uses in describing Mary’s response to what is happening, implies different layers to what Mary is experiencing.  One layer I imagine is Mary taking time to reflect upon her relationship with her elderly relative Elizabeth.  Imagine these two improbable pregnancies.  One to someone too old to bear a child, and the other to a virgin. This was certainly something to treasure and think about often.  It would naturally draw Mary to God and his amazing ways in accomplishing his purposes. Author Anne Lamont would describe this layer to the Christmas story, in the most reverent of tones, as “God showing off.”  It’s one of her favorite expressions. It makes me wonder about the improbable things God has done in your life. What things has he done for you that’s worthy of treasuring? Joseph And then there’s Mary’s husband Joseph. Another layer to the Christmas story. I imagine Mary sitting there in the cave with the baby Jesus looking at Joseph and treasuring her relationship with him. I picture her taking time to reflect on where they’ve come from in their time together. We don’t know how old Joseph was, but we’re pretty sure Mary was probably 14 or 15 years old. Maybe they went to high school together. They were both from the small backwater town of Nazareth, which had a lot going against it in terms of its reputation. Remember one of Jesus’ disciples remarking, “can anything good come out of Nazareth?” While I imagine Mary was the subject of a lot of gossip surrounding her pre-marital pregnancy, she had to know Joseph dealt with the same thing. There was a cost to his reputation and standing in the community, too. Yet he stood by her and believed what Mary and the angel Gabriel told him - as implausible as it was. What woman wouldn’t want a husband like this? Scripture doesn’t have a lot to say about Joseph, except that he was described as a “good man.” I did an earlier episode about him, episode no 135, “Christmas with a Good Man Brings Joy.”  I’ll have a link to it at the bottom of the show notes in case you're interested. It’s one of my favorite Christmas episodes. "All these men around my baby" Another layer to what Mary treasured and took time to reflect upon could very well have been the place of the shepherds in the birth of Jesus. If I were Mary, I’d wonder why all these men were here to see my baby. Birthing is typically a female kind of thing, but here are all these guys - Joseph and the shepherds. There’s not another lady to be found in the whole story. What gives with that? Why are the shepherds even part of the Christmas story? Why couldn’t the angels appear to Mary and Joseph directly? The answer to this question is another example of God showing off, in the best sense of the word. You see these shepherds were not the ordinary run-of-the-mill shepherd.  They were actually temple priests who cared for a special flock of sheep used for the Passover celebration and other temple festivals where ceremonial sheep were sacrificed.  Each of these sheep were without any blemish or defect. They were as perfect as any sheep could be. Their one and only purpose was to one day be a perfect sacrifice. These perfect sheep were what the priestly shepherds were watching over the night the angels appeared to them. The shepherds knew that one day they would be out of a job when the Messiah, the savior , the son of God would come to earth. They knew he would be the once and for all perfect sacrifice for all mankind. No more sheep. A one and done sacrifice. So no wonder they were excited when the angel appears to them out in their fields around Bethlehem to announce the birth of Jesus. “For there is born to you today, in David’s city, a Savior, who is Christ the Lord.” Luke 2:11 Time to reflect on the future Mary knew all this, too. The role of these temple shepherds was well-known, So I’m sure Mary would be reflecting upon the similarity between what they cared for, and what she would be caring for. Jesus is described in several places as the “lamb of God.” His once and for all sacrifice would replace the system these shepherds were part of. Imagine what it must have been like for Mary, as a teenager knowing that in 33 years the baby you just gave birth to would be offered up by God as a sacrifice to redeem all of mankind. So what does all this mean for YOU?  There was certainly no shortage of things for Mary to think about there besides her newborn baby. Lot’s of things to treasure and many things to reflect on, mull over, and ponder over and over again. But what about you?  What about the role of Jesus in your life do you treasure? What are the layers of your relationships with him, that you think about from time to time? I encourage you to take time to reflect upon this.  You know this, I’m sure, but considering questions like these is so much more fulfilling than the other questions we usually ask at Christmas. Closing In closing, I’d also love to hear any thoughts you have about today’s episode. I hope your thinking was stimulated by today’s show, to do what Mary did, to take time to reflect on your relationship with Jesus. For when you do, it will help you experience the joy of relationships God desires for you. Because after all, You Were Made for This. The next time you hear my voice will be on Christmas Day when I read the entire Christmas story from Luke’s Gospel. It’s only 20 verses. In the meantime don’t forget to spread a little relational sunshine around the people you meet this week. Spark some joy for them.  And I’ll see you again next time. Goodbye for now. Other episodes or resources related to today’s shows 207: How to Help the People We Love At Christmas 139: Why Should I Listen to This Podcast? 021: The Most Important Relationship of All 135: Christmas with a Good Man Brings Joy Last week’s blog post: The Joy of Christmas Past All past and future episodes    JohnCertalic.com Our Sponsor You Were Made for This is sponsored by Caring for Others, a missionary care ministry.  Donate Please consider donating to help cover the costs associated with this podcast and the other services we provide missionaries around the world. You can make a tax-deductible contribution to Caring for Others when you click here.  You can also contribute by clicking on the yellow "Donate" box in the upper right corner at the top of the first page.  

In the 1947 classic Christmas film It’s a Wonderful Life!, George Bailey, played by Jimmy Stewart, goes through a tough time during Christmas in dealing with two serious financial problems caused by someone else. This most beloved and joyful man in all of Bedford Falls is overcome with depression, anger, hopelessness, and despair. In the midst of all this, George’s wife, Mary, steps in and shows us how to help the people we love when they are in a dark place, especially at Christmas  It’s what today’s episode is all about. But before we get into today’s episode, here’s what this podcast is all about.   Welcome to You Were Made for This If you find yourself wanting more from your relationships, you’ve come to the right place. Here you’ll discover practical principles you can use to experience the life-giving relationships you were made for. I’m your host, John Certalic, award-winning author and relationship coach, here to help you find more joy in the relationships God designed for you. To access all past and future episodes, go to the bottom of this page to the yellow "Subscribe" button, then enter your name and email address in the fields above it. The episodes are organized chronologically and are also searchable by topics, categories, and keywords. Christmas is all about relationships Of all the times of the year to find joy in our relationships, can there be a better time than Christmas?  Christmas only exists because Jesus wants a relationship with us, and he came to earth to make that really clear to us. There’s certainly joy in this relationship, and also in our relationships with friends and family. But sometimes things get in the way of experiencing the kind of relationship God designed for us with the people we love.  We see this so vividly in what I think is the greatest Christmas movie ever made, It’s a Wonderful Life!  The film is overflowing with many different kinds of relationship struggles. But in the end, it leaves you feeling good about being alive in community with other people.   I like this movie so much that I did an entire podcast on seven relationship lessons we learn from It’s a Wonderful Life!  It’s episode 045 and I’ll have a link to it at the bottom of today’s show notes. It’s a Wonderful Life! in a nutshell If it’s been a while since you saw the film, or if you’ve never seen It’s a Wonderful Life!, here’s a brief summary of the plot: The main character, George Bailey, played by Jimmy Stewart, grew up in a small town by the name of Bedford Falls prior to WWII. From the time he was young, George was a very popular, engaging person, well-liked by everyone.  Small-town life was not for him, however. He talked often about his dream of traveling to far-away places where he would work as an engineer to build big things, like skyscrapers and bridges.   George grew up in a loving family where his father and uncle ran the Bailey Brothers Building & Loan, a business in competition with the bank in town owned by the antagonist in the movie, Henry Potter. “Old man Potter” as he was called. At one point George’s father, Peter Bailey, died suddenly and George took over the Building & Loan. The plan was that once George’s brother Harry graduated from college, he would take over the Building & Loan, so George could leave Bedford Falls to pursue an education and his dreams. But things didn’t turn out as planned. Harry returns from college, not just with a diploma, but also with a wife and a job out of town with his father-in-law.  All this leaves George with the responsibility of running the Building & Loan, causing him to feel all the more trapped, which is a major theme of the movie. Money set aside for a honeymoon George ends up getting married to a woman named Mary. On their wedding day and on their way out of town for their honeymoon, there’s a run on the bank. This was not unusual during the Depression of the 1930s, which is when the movie takes place.  Everyone wanted to withdraw their savings in cash, but there’s not enough money to pay out the withdrawals.  Mary sees what’s going on and turns over to George all the wedding money and savings she and George have saved for their honeymoon. George then uses it to pay out the cash withdrawals. This is the first example we see from Mary of how to help the people we love when they are going through a rough time. How many women do you know would sacrifice their once-in-a-lifetime romantic vacation to help her husband solve a problem at work?  Not many.  Most women would say something along the lines of, “This is our wedding day and we’re leaving for our honeymoon. Let your co-workers deal with the problem. They’ll understand. Aren’t I more important than your job, your business? But that’s not Mary. She sacrifices her desires and her resources to help the person she loves. Sometimes to help the people we love we have to set aside our dreams. And sometimes to help the people we love will cost us financially. Investing in relationships This run on the bank that George and Mary are dealing with is an interesting metaphor for relationships. Just as deposits we make with our money into financial institutions, we also make “deposits” in our relationships. George Bailey had certainly done that with the relationships he developed and fostered in Bedford Falls. The movie shows how he invested in people, and the things he did to help people who needed help. Watch for it the next time you see the movie. I’ll comment more on this in a few minutes. But I wonder about you and me. To what extent are we investing in relationships, where we pour ourselves into being there for other people?  Will we have enough in our relationship account that there will be something to withdraw when we need help? Another problem at work After the problem with the run on the bank is solved. Another work-related problem arises like the whack-a-mole game you play at the fair. On Christmas Eve Uncle Billy misplaces $8,000 worth of deposits right as a bank examiner shows up for an audit. In today’s dollars adjusted for inflation, this would amount to about $110,000.   If the money isn’t found, it will mean bankruptcy, scandal, and jail time for George. He’s beside himself with fear, and it brings out the worst in him. The rest of the film shows how George goes about dealing with this problem, and how others deal with George. If ever there was a movie about relationships, this would be it. For example, at one point in the film George tries to help Uncle Billy remember where he left the money. But he gets impatient, roughs up Uncle Billy, and calls him “a silly old fool.”   George then comes home in his irritated, fearful state and yells at his kids. He makes one of them cry, in fact. At which point Mary steps in to protect her children. She positions herself in front of the kids and confronts George very sternly with “George, why must you torture the children? Why don’t you…” A change in behavior Before this scene, Mary observed this marked change in behavior in her husband and asked him “What’s wrong?”  George doesn’t answer, in part because I think he’s trying to protect his wife from work problems, and in part because he’s confused by his own anger and rage. Mary is puzzled by George because it’s not like him to be so angry. But she doesn’t give up on George when he doesn’t answer her “what’s wrong?” question.  She reflects in her mind what might be the problem. George didn’t go to work that morning angry at the world, so it’s logical to consider that maybe something happened at work to set him off. George isn’t any help in figuring out the problem, so Mary logically and wisely calls someone who works with George to see if he might know.  It’s one thing you can do to help someone you love. She picks up the phone and asks the operator to call Bedford 247. And guess who answers?  Uncle Billy. Now we don’t hear what Mary says to Uncle Billy. But by the end of the movie we find out. George gets help for dealing with his problem After George walks out the door after yelling at his kids we see him encounter Clarence Oddbody AS2 (Angel 2nd class). He’s sent by God to help George put his problem in perspective and to realize the impact he’s had on people. It’s interesting that God doesn’t send Clarence the angel to solve George’s problem, but rather that despite his problems it truly is a wonderful life that George has been living.   God still works like that today. Often not solving our problems, but always putting them in perspective in light of eternity and God’s purposes for our life. Bold action to help the people we love  Getting back to Mary and her phone call to Uncle Billy. After George’s encounter with Clarence Oddbody, Angel second class, he returns home a new man. Oh so grateful to be alive and even at peace with the potential consequences of the misplaced $8,000 of deposits. It’s here we see what Mary and Uncle Billy talked about in their phone call. She now tells George, “It’s a miracle, George! It’s a miracle!” Then Uncle Billy walks through their front door with a large wicker laundry basket, sets it on a folding table, and tells George one of the key lines in the movie in an excited tone. “Mary did it, George! Mary did it! She scoured all over town telling people you were in trouble…” With that, crowds of people come pouring through the front door with cash to put in the basket. What a bold action on Mary’s part. Sometimes to help the people we love we have to step out of our comfort zone and ask other people to help us care for the one we love. Sometimes we have to make withdrawals from our relational bank account. It’s just how it works. What we’ve learned from Mary in It’s a Wonderful Life! Mary shows us that we can help the people we love who are going through difficult times by first observing any change in behavior. What’s different about them now, and when did the change happen? Often knowing when will give us further clues to help those we love. We also learn from Mary how it’s important to reflect upon what might be causing the distress in the people we love. Be direct and ask them. They may not know themselves, but don’t give up. Probe further.  Take action as Mary did. Ask other people who may be in a position to know what the root of the problem is in the angst our loved one is experiencing. Call someone. Don’t text.  And then when you finally understand the heart of the problem. Take more action. Evaluate what you can do to help, and what you need from other people. Finally, we learn from Mary that helping the people we love going through a really bad season is done behind the scenes. I love behind-the-scenes-people. They have no hidden agenda and they want to bring out the best in people. It’s never about them So what does all this mean for YOU?  How can you use what you’ve heard today to help you find more joy in the relationships in your life?  Make it a goal to be a better observer of the important people in your life. Notice any changes in behavior. Then reflect upon what might possibly be causing those changes. Finally, take action. Do something that tries to help. And like Mary in the movie, do all this behind the scenes. Be a behind-the-scenes person.  It’s pretty fulfilling helping the people we love this way. Closing In closing, I’d love to hear any thoughts you have about today’s episode. I hope your thinking was stimulated by today’s show, to consider how you can help the people you love this Christmas - behind the scenes. For when you do, it will help you experience the joy of relationships God desires for you. Because after all, You Were Made for This. Well, that’s it for today. As we close up shop, please don’t forget to spread a little relational sunshine around the people you meet this week. Spark some joy for them, kind of like Mary did and all the people of Bedford Falls. And I’ll see you again next time. Goodbye for now. Other episodes or resources related to today’s shows 045: Seven Relationship Lessons from the Greatest Christmas Movie Ever Made 021: The Most Important Relationship of All A prior and most recent episode 206: Thankful for the Stories of Others All past and future episodes    JohnCertalic.com Our Sponsor You Were Made for This is sponsored by Caring for Others, a missionary care ministry.  Donate Please consider making a donation to help cover the costs associated with this podcast and the other services we provide missionaries around the world. You can make a tax-deductible contribution to Caring for Others when you click here.  You can also contribute by clicking on the yellow "Donate" box in the upper right corner at the top of the first page.

The Thanksgiving holiday will soon be upon us here in the US, so I’ve been reflecting on what I’m thankful for. And this year I’m thinking about things that goes beyond my family and good health. In considering this, I’ve come to realize that I’m especially thankful for the stories of others.  That’s because I’ve found that the stories of what other people have experienced often lift me out of myself. Listening to what others have been through, both good and bad, and how those experiences shaped them into the person they are today, have a way of neutralizing the difficulties and concerns I’m experiencing. I’ve got a story for you today that illustrates this principle. A story that happened to me. I hope as you listen to it you too will be encouraged to listen to the stories of others and experience the benefits in doing so.  But before we get into today’s episode, here’s what this podcast is all about.  Welcome to You Were Made for This If you find yourself wanting more from your relationships, you’ve come to the right place. Here you’ll discover practical principles you can use to experience the life-giving relationships you were made for. I’m your host, John Certalic, award-winning author and relationship coach, here to help you find more joy in the relationships God designed for you. To access all past and future episodes, go to the bottom of this page to the yellow "Subscribe" button, then enter your name and email address in the fields above it. The episodes are organized chronologically and are also searchable by topics, categories, and keywords. Thankful for this story that didn’t start well My story starts on a late Friday afternoon at the end of the work week. I was still active full-time in my business, but this particular weekend Janet and I were headed to a missionary care conference in Gull Lake, Michigan.  When I got home from the office that day I hurriedly loaded up the car with our luggage, anxious to get on the road for the 4½ hour drive to the conference. Getting there required driving through Chicago during rush hour. Lots of bumper-to-bumper and stop-and-go traffic through the city’s congested highways. It was nerve-wracking. We finally reached the conference grounds late at night, registered, and got our room key. As I began unloading the car with the clothes we packed I realized I had left half of them at home.  Oh great, I thought. We’re going to have to wear the same clothes for the entire weekend.  Couple that with the late hour, and the nerve-wracking drive through Chicago, my irritability score was off the charts.  It didn’t get any better the next morning as I didn’t get much sleep that night. Lack of sleep. The long drive through Chicago traffic. No change of clothes all contributed to my over-the-moon crabbiness. A not-so-thankful-start to the day The first scheduled event for Saturday morning was breakfast in the dining hall of the conference center. Janet and I grabbed a tray and made it through the line with our breakfast selections and then looked for a place to sit. I was still feeling so irritable that I didn’t was to sit with anyone else attending the conference. It wouldn’t be fair to them to sit with someone as crabby as I was that morning. So we spotted a few empty tables in the far reaches of the room and headed there to spend a quiet breakfast away from anyone. It wasn’t long though, before I spotted an older man slowly heading toward us with his tray of food. “Oh no. Please no,” I thought. He’s going to sit with us and we’re going to have to eat breakfast together. And we’re going to have to talk with him. Yikes!  There was no getting around it. There was no place to hide. We were stuck. Thankful for an unusual breakfast companion The elderly man sat down with his tray across the table from me. We exchanged pleasantries, commented on the weather, and then he asked us where we were from. I told him and then following his lead I asked, “How about you? Where are you from?” “I came here from Detroit,” but I was a pastor in Canada for many years. I’m retired now,” he replied. Hmm, I thought. His answer surprised me a bit because in our brief conversation so far I detected an accent in his speech. He sounded European and not like any Canadian I had ever known. We made more small talk and then I asked him, “You seem to have an accent, European I’m guessing. Were you born there?” “Oh, yes,” he said. I was born in Holland and lived there until I was 19 before I moved to Canada,” he replied. Hmm, I thought again. I’m guessing our new breakfast companion was probably in his early 80s, which turned on my mental calculator and prompted me to ask another question based on his age and my knowledge of history.   Thankful that one question often leads to another “Were you by any chance living in Holland during World War II? I asked. His eyes lit up, and with a smile, he responded with a simple but spirited, “Yes!” I continued with, “And were you still living there when Germany invaded and took over your country?” “I was,” he said. By this time in our conversation I suddenly realized I’m talking with someone who was an eyewitness to one of the most significant and awful events of the 20th century. I didn’t see it in myself at the time, but my mood took a drastic turn for the better. My irritability escaped from my being like a mouse who flees when he sees a cat in the room.  It happened that quickly. “What was that like for you, to be living during the occupation?” “The Nazi soldiers were everywhere, patrolling the streets with their rifles slung over their shoulders. It was a very scary and difficult time for all of us.” “Why did you leave Holland when you were 19?” I asked after he finished talking about his wartime experience.” Thankful for the humor found in the stories of others “Oh that’s a funny story,” he said, again with a smile on his face. “The Dutch government was concerned about over-population and that the country couldn’t handle the increase in population growth they anticipated. So they offered anyone who would move away a sum of money that was equivalent to about $5,000. After the war in 1945-46, that was a large amount of money. So being 19-years-old and looking for adventure, I grabbed the money and moved to Canada. “As it turned out, the population of Holland grew much larger anyway and there hasn’t been any problem with the country keeping up with that growth.” “Why did you move to Canada,” I asked. “Why not the U.S.?” “Oh, that was an easy decision,” our elderly Dutchman replied. “When the Allied forces liberated us after the war in 1945, the Canadian soldiers were much friendlier than the Americans. So that’s why I moved to Canada.” We all got a good laugh over this part of his story. With that, we finished breakfast and moved to the first session of the conference. I was now completely rejuvenated and thankful for the story of this Dutchman. I don’t recall seeing him again the rest of the weekend, but this relational moment we had together over breakfast has stayed with me for many years since. It makes me smile whenever I think of him. Thankful for what we learn from the stories of others My interaction with this World War II-era Dutchman taught me a number of things: All problems are temporary. Even leaving half your clothes at home for a weekend trip Our moods are temporary, too. A good conversation can be a mood-altering experience Asking a simple question to start a conversation is quite powerful Asking a follow-up question is even more powerful. It’s the engine that keeps the conversation train rolling down the tracks Being curious about other people has been a source of joy in my life. It’s the basis for being a good listener, and a means to deepen relationships.  I’m so thankful I majored in history in college and that I still enjoy it. Having a background in history has enriched my life. So what does all this mean for YOU?  The next time you’re in a bad mood, use your curiosity muscles to listen to someone share one of their life experiences. By drawing them out with follow-up questions it will help lift you out of yourself. It’s amazing how that works. Give it a try. Closing In closing, I’d also love to hear any thoughts you have about today’s episode. I hope your thinking was stimulated by today’s show, to be curious about other people and to be thankful for their stories. For when you do, it will help you experience the joy of relationships God desires for you. Because after all, You Were Made for This. Well, that’s it for today.  Now don’t forget to spread a little relational sunshine around the people you meet this week. Spark some joy for them.  And I’ll connect with you again next time. Goodbye for now. Other episodes or resources related to today’s shows 139: Why Should I Listen to This Podcast? 021: The Most Important Relationship of All 185: Thankful for Curious People 063: Six Reasons Why We’re Not More Curious About People 165: Nosey People Weaken Relationships; Curious People Strengthen Them The prior and most recent episode   205: How to Have a Meaningful Conversation All past and future episodes    JohnCertalic.com Our Sponsor You Were Made for This is sponsored by Caring for Others, a missionary care ministry.  Donate Please consider making a donation to help cover the costs associated with this podcast and the other services we provide missionaries around the world. You can make a tax-deductible contribution to Caring for Others when you click here.  You can also make a contribution by clicking on the yellow "Donate" box in the upper right corner at the top of the first page.

To deepen our current relationships, or to develop new ones, it’s helpful to ask ourselves an important question. Namely, “How do I have a meaningful conversation with someone?” Today’s episode will give you a few ideas to help you answer this question. But before we get into today’s episode, here’s what this podcast is all about.   Welcome to You Were Made for This If you find yourself wanting more from your relationships, you’ve come to the right place. Here you’ll discover practical principles you can use to experience the life-giving relationships you were made for. I’m your host, John Certalic, award-winning author and relationship coach, here to help you find more joy in the relationships God designed for you. To access all past and future episodes, go to the bottom of this page to the yellow "Subscribe" button, then enter your name and email address in the fields above it. The episodes are organized chronologically and are also searchable by topics, categories, and keywords. A meaningful conversation with my barber One way to find this joy God designed for us is to consider how we can have meaningful conversations with people. “Meaningful” doesn’t necessarily have to mean “deep.” If you listened to the episode prior to this one, #204, you may recall the woman on the NextDoor app who posted that she wanted to have 40 “deep conversations” before she turned 40. As it turns out she was really looking for 40 people to sign up for her life coaching business.  I heard from some of you that you were angry with the woman for misleading people like this. Now I’m going to save deep conversations for another time, and I have no life coaching advice for anyone. Well, except for one thing. Grown men over 60 should tuck their shirts in when out in public. It will keep your mom happy, if she’s still alive. It will honor her legacy if she’s no longer with us. That’s the extent of my life coaching advice for today. As for meaningful conversations, they don’t have to be deep in order to derive a measure of joy from them. And you don’t always have to create them, because sometimes they just come to you like a stray dog or cat who appears on your doorstep and welcomes themself in. For example, several years ago I was sitting in the chair in a barber shop when my barber, Paul, asked me what I was going to do the rest of the day when I was done with my haircut. “Stain my deck this afternoon,” I said. “I’ve been putting it off because I don’t like being on my knees putting the stain on with a paintbrush. But the job needs to be done.” The most meaningful conversation I had that day Paul then said, “You know they make special brushes for putting down stain on decks. They’re about 6 inches wide and an inch and a half thick. You screw any standard-size pole, like you use for a broom, into a hole in the brush. This allows you to dip the brush into the pail of stain and put it down on the wood without ever bending down or kneeling. Most hardware stores carry this kind of brush.” After my haircut I went straight to a nearby hardware store, bought the kind of brush Paul described, and started staining my deck just as Paul described. What was once a burdensome task now became something quite easy. All because of this meaningful conversation while sitting in a barber’s chair. The meaning in my conversation with Paul is that he shared something that made my life better. He shared the knowledge and experience he had to ease a difficulty in my life. It wasn’t a deep conversation by any means, but it brought me joy in knowing how to complete a task in a new and less painful way. It really lifted my spirits.  To have this meaningful conversation with Paul all I did was engage in small talk and share what was on my mind. When you do the same thing with a good listener, there’s the possibility are you’ll get into a meaningful conversation, too. Dinner party Another meaningful conversation happened just recently when Janet and I were invited to dinner at  the home of one of our couple friends. Another  husband and wife who moved away many years ago were in town and they were invited, too. The six of us have been friends for decades. As the six of us were eating, the subject came up of the first house each of us lived in and the memories we had of those homes. It was interesting to hear each person recall what was memorable for them. One memory shared in this conversation that stood out for me was one shared by the hostess, who I will call “Sarah.”  It’s not her real name, but she’d be embarrassed to no end if I told you who she really was, so I’ll just call her Sarah. A visit from Dad Anyway, Sarah shared a memory of her and her husband’s first house, that in all the many years I have known them I had never heard before. She said a favorite memory was how her dad on occasion would come and visit her on his day off. He was a mail carrier is a town about 75 miles away.  “He would drive all that way and then sit in our living room and read the newspaper. It’s a favorite memory of mine, being in the same small living room with him while he read the paper.” Sarah was a young mom at the time with two small children when her father would come and spend the day with her. The smile and look on her face told me this was something special. I had heard stories about her father before, of the kind man he was. Sarah’s husband spoke fondly of him, too.  On the days he would visit he came alone. Sarah’s mother stayed home. To me, it seemed fitting that way, as her relationship with her mother was, well, very different from her relationship with her dad. A meaningful conversation without words Even though no one else said much as she shared her story, I found it to be a meaningful conversation among the six of us. Sarah, as long as I’ve known her, has been one of the kindest, most loving and gentle people I’ve known. I learned this night when she shared her story where she got these qualities. She got them from her dad.  Her dad’s legacy lives on through Sarah. She places a high value on relationships as he did, and she is kind and gentle, too. I mean, who would spend their day off from work to drive 150 miles and 2½ hours round trip to just be with his daughter? Not to do anything special, just to sit in her living room reading the newspaper. I found both sadness and joy in this meaningful conversation. Sadness that Sarah’s mother related to her so differently. Sadness in knowing that her dad died quite young. I think he was only 54. I found joy in knowing this memory of Sarah’s father and how the way he spent his day off still has a special place in her heart.  There was also the Joy in seeing her dad in Sarah. Their shared qualities of kindness and gentleness. And Joy in knowing an example of how a father can love his adult daughter.  I want to be remembered by my daughter and son like this after I’m gone.  What makes a conversation meaningful? I like to think a meaningful conversation is one where there is an exchange of meaning. And it doesn’t necessarily have to involve words. The conversation with my barber about the deck stain brush certainly involved words. He shared his knowledge and experience that was meaningful to me. It was a solution to a problem I had, which I appreciated. Now, you and I have been in conversations filled with lots of words, many words, but without any meaning being exchanged. You know what I’m talking about. When people fill the air with their own voice, where they talk just to talk, devoid of anything meaningful to you. They give you information or opinions you didn’t ask for that mean nothing to you. You are not asked any questions in a conversation like this. It’s more a monologue than a conversation.  This wasn’t the case at all with Sarah sharing a favorite memory from the first house. There were few words, but lots of meaning was exchanged because we listened. Listening based on what we all remembered about Sarah’s background. Listening by observing her facial expression. And then listening by entering into Sarah’s story as we imagined what it must have been like for her, and for her dad, and his occasional visits to her home.  Sarah shared her memory with only a few words, yet it was filled to the brim with meaning.  Words not needed If Sarah had used words to convey the meaning of her conversation it would have gone something like, “My dad thought I was important enough to use his day off from work to come and spend time time with me. Even if it was to just sit in our living room reading the newspaper. That was enough for both of us. It was all we needed, to be together like that. This was a favorite memory of mine from the first house owned.” Yeah, something like these words would have described it. But we didn’t need the words. We saw it and more in her face. The meaning I came away with from this meaningful conversation was joy for Sarah. Joy that she had such a loving relationship with her dad. It reminded me of that Walt Whitman quote I love,  “We were together, I forgot the rest.” So what about YOU?  I wonder what meaningful conversations you’ve had lately. What have you done to make them meaningful? What exchange of meaning has taken place between you and another person? And I especially wonder what meaningful conversations presented themselves to you, like the sun peeking around the edge of grey clouds after a sprinkle of rain? I’d love to hear about any conversations like this. Closing And speaking of the sun peeking out from clouds, as we close up shop for today, don’t forget to spread a little relational sunshine around the people you meet this week. Spark some joy for them.  And I’ll see you again next time. Goodbye for now. Other episodes or resources related to today’s shows 139: Why Should I Listen to This Podcast? 021: The Most Important Relationship of All Prior and most recent episode    204: Deep Conversations All past and future episodes    JohnCertalic.com Our Sponsor You Were Made for This is sponsored by Caring for Others, a missionary care ministry.  Donate Please consider making a donation to help cover the costs associated with this podcast and the other services we provide missionaries around the world. You can make a tax-deductible contribution to Caring for Others when you click here.  You can also make a contribution by clicking on the yellow "Donate" box in the upper right corner at the top of the first page. Thank you.

Do you ever long for a deep conversation with someone? Today’s episode is about a creative measure someone took to make that happen. It reveals what many of us long for, and how we can make the world a better place, one conversation at a time. As with every episode, our purpose in this podcast is to help you find more joy in the relationships God designed for you. The Next Door app I’ll start by telling you something interesting I found the other day on the social media app, “Next Door.”  It’s a bit like Facebook but for neighborhoods. You sign up to get posts from people living in your neighborhood, and it’s usually people asking for recommendations. Things like, “I need a plumber,” or “I’m new in town and am looking for a good dentist, who would you recommend.” Things like this.  Last summer, for example, I found a high school student through this app willing to pull weeds from our flower beds, so it’s great for items like this. But you’ll also find annoying things like a recent post that read “Why is the Taco Bell on Moreland Rd closed all of a sudden.” That’s not so bad, but it generated a long thread of comments about how horrible Taco Bell is, followed by a string of Taco Bell fans praising the place. Followed yet by another string of “Why are people so lazy they can’t make their own tacos at home? What’s wrong with you people?”  I think you get the picture. It’s why I delete the app, but then months later sign up for it again. An unusual request Anyway, the most unusual post I’ve seen in a long time came from an attractive woman by the name of Nicole who posted her picture with the following: I turn 40 in roughly 4 months. To celebrate, I’m challenging myself to have deep conversations with 40 different individuals. What’s in it for you? Maybe some clarity in an area you’re questioning or better sense of your purpose or even just someone to listen to you unload. What’s in it for me? I get to connect with YOU. Simple as that. I want to close out my 30s by connecting with as many people as possible. And if we already know each other, let’s do this anyway! Message me if you’re up to help me with this challenge. Summary of the Responses The last time I checked 99 people responded to Nicole. Here’s a summary of those responses: Slightly more women responded than men No one said “no” or anything negative. Everyone either said “yes” in one form or another, “Happy Birthday” and nothing more, or they had a question 9 people commented something along the lines of “Oh, you’re so beautiful.” One person said she looked like Julia Roberts. None of these 9 agreed to a deep conversation Nicole is looking for. 2 people wanted to know more Selected responses I found interesting Jim: Wish I were 40 yrs. younger Nicole: ha! Flattered, but I’m married! Guy: Hello Nicole! I’m Game!! But I’m a talker…You better be ready!!! Joseph: The years have been very kind to you! What are some of your interests? Anna: I would love to do this. I am 78 years old. This could be very interesting. And maybe loving & caring. I could use more contact w/ good people. How do I get on board? Melody: Please be safe meeting all those people Emily: I’m in. Always great to meet new friends. Happy early birthday  Mark: Hello Nicole, what a way to start and meet new friends. I would like to connect and have some conversations. Angela: What a wonderful way to celebrate your milestone birthday! I am having a milestone birthday today @60! I have a lot of life to discuss and would be honored to help you accomplish this worthwhile project!! Steven: Absolutely, any time! Tami: Hi Nicole! I’m Tami, and I am so intrigued with your project!! I would love to help you with this. I’m a writer and deep conversations are my jam! Craig: Very interesting idea.  I love to chat with new people! Laura: If you haven’t met your 40 conversations, I could use a good conversation with a kind soul. An interest in deep conversations from young and old Meghan: I wish there were more people like this with good intentions! I’m in my mid-20s. Intellectual conversations are kinda really my thing. Jeri: I would love to participate. I just turned 70 and looking for connection. Larry: I am 66; is it to just unload problems or to really make new friends--if you want to make new friends I am there count me in- Karen: I would love to help you . I am in my early 50s and love meeting new people and making friends. Kat: Well, I am 76 years old and I have lived through a lot! I was a postwar baby and as I became a teenager we dealt with birth control. Then there was the Vietnam war, civil rights. Live near the Bay Area in the 60s and saw lots of disobedience and Craziness. I lived to see John Kennedy shot and killed Martin Luther King shot and killed and Bobby Kennedy shot and killed. Those were sad sad days for America. I could go on and on, but I won’t.  You get the idea.  At this point in my life, I have lost almost everybody that was of significance in my life growing up. But I’m still part of the class of ’64 for our high school and we are a very connected class since we went from kindergarten through high school together for most of us. By the way, happy happy birthday Lyn: Nicole, I'm game if you're still collecting names. I just celebrated my 75th...definitely a milestone! Michelle: Hi Nicole, I’d love to assist with your quest.  What a lovely way to celebrate your next birthday. My response to the request for a deep conversation  I responded with this text, I’ll do what I can to help you with this challenge. Shortly thereafter I received a text from Nicole that read: "Hey John! Thanks for offering to help with the challenge! "Just as a very brief background: I'm a nurse and obtained a certification as a transformative life coach and my goal is to connect with as many people as possible.  There's no catch, just connecting :) "Here's a link to schedule a time to connect:" Hmmmn. A different “deep conversation” than what was expected I clicked on the link to find a calendar to book an appointment. Above the calendar read “Free Session.” The word “Free” jumped out a me. It implies, especially after reading further, that some sessions are not free. Next to the calendar is more information from Nicole that began with: "Why do this? To connect! I'm a nurse and a health and wellness coach looking to serve my community one conversation at a time. I want to learn about you and where you're struggling right now, and alternatively, what's going great and how to help you build on that!" Nicole goes on to write: "Some sessions can be filled with big emotions and that's ok! I want you to express yourself to the fullest, be open and honest, and I'll do the same for you. That being said, if I feel you're not showing up fully in this way, I'll call you out on it and push you a little harder. Not showing up fully is not an option in my coaching space. "At the end, we'll make sure you have a plan to continue any forward momentum that we've created together." My take on all this I was really tempted to contact some of the 99 people who responded to Nicole’s initial challenge to celebrate her upcoming 40th birthday by having deep conversations with 40 people. I’d like to ask them what they thought and felt when they got the same text I received when I responded to Nicole.  Believe me, that was so tempting. But if I did that, this episode would be about the ethics of Nicole’s marketing strategy for her wellness coaching business. The larger and more interesting aspect to this story is why these 99 people responded to Nicole in the first place.  It caused me to go back and look at the responses of these 99 more closely and found they reveal something about what many of us are all looking for these days. What people are looking for I think of Anna, who at 78 years of age found the prospect of a deep conversation with Nicole to be in her words, “loving and caring,” and “I could use more contact with good people.” Then there is Laura who said, “I could use a good conversation with a kind soul.” And Larry who mentions he’s 66 and “If this is about making new friends I am there. Count me in.” Another response that is telling comes from Jeri who said “I would love to participate. I just turned 70 and looking for connection.” And finally there is the response from Kat who spoke about the major events she lived through in her 76 years, almost as a way of auditioning for Nicole, implying that she would have a lot to offer in any kind of deep conversation.  I was especially touched when Kat said “At this point in my life, I have lost almost everybody that is of significance in my life growing up. But I’m still part of the class of ’64 for our high school and we are a very connected class since we went from kindergarten through high school together for most of us.” Over and over again people talk about looking for connection and meeting new friends.  I think it’s because many of us are lonely. Otherwise, why would we want new friends? It’s either because we don’t have any friends, or the few we have are just surface friends. So what does all this mean for YOU?  If you saw Nicole’s request for a deep conversation, how would you respond?  Are you interested in deep conversations that would lead to connections with people and making new friends? Or are you overloaded with the things going on in your life that you just don’t have any space for deep conversations much less new friends? Another thing this brings up is as people of faith, how would Jesus want us to respond to those looking for friends and connection with others?  We can’t connect with everyone, nor be friends with everyone. And if you’re active in a church, please, please don’t say, “tell others they need to get in a small group.”  No, they don’t. My hunch is that Jesus doesn’t want us to funnel lonely people into a church program or ministry. Rather, I think he wants us to individually reflect his image and character.  To be what 78-year-old Anna is looking for,  “someone who is caring and loving” and that good person she could connect with. To be that “kind soul” Laura is looking for. Yeah, that’s how I think Jesus would want us to respond. Because someone listened… I’ll conclude by reminding you of that new feature we’re trying out this season, Because Someone Listened… I’d like you to describe a time when someone listened to you well and the impact it had on you. Just complete the sentence because someone listened…. You can post it in the comment box at the bottom of the show notes, or you can email it to me at [email protected]. Closing In closing, I’d also love to hear any thoughts you have about today’s episode. I hope your thinking was stimulated by today’s show, to be that loving and caring person, that “kind soul”  people are looking for. For when you do, it will help you experience the joy of relationships God desires for you. Because after all, You Were Made for This. Well, that’s it for today. If there’s someone in your life you think might like to hear what you just heard, please forward this episode on to them. Scroll down to the bottom of the show notes and click on one of the options in the yellow “Share This” bar. And don’t forget to spread a little relational sunshine around the people you meet this week. Spark some joy for them.  And I’ll see you again next time. Goodbye for now. Other episodes or resources related to today’s shows 139: Why Should I Listen to This Podcast? 021: The Most Important Relationship of All Our Sponsor You Were Made for This is sponsored by Caring for Others, a missionary care ministry. Please consider making a donation to help us pay the bills to continue this podcast and other services we provide missionaries around the world. You can make an online contribution to Caring for Others when you click here. You can also make a contribution by clicking on the yellow "Donate" box in the upper right corner at the top of the first page.

There’s a school of thought out there that says to make friends it’s important to be vulnerable by sharing your story. Some call it “being authentic.” Yet it’s been my experience that sharing your story when someone is trying to share theirs may end up pushing people away. Some would call that being self-centered. Today’s episode, though, is about three reasons to be stingy in sharing your story. But before we get into today’s episode, here’s what this podcast is all about.   Welcome to You Were Made for This If you find yourself wanting more from your relationships, you’ve come to the right place. Here you’ll discover practical principles you can use to experience the life-giving relationships you were made for. I’m your host, John Certalic, an award-winning author and relationship coach. I'm here to help you find more joy in the relationships God designed for you. To access all past and future episodes, go to the bottom of this page to the yellow "Subscribe" button, then enter your name and email address in the fields above it.  The episodes are organized chronologically and are also searchable by topics, categories, and keywords. In the last episode If the phrase “be stingy in sharing your story” sounds familiar it’s probably because you heard it used in episode 202, “The Best Stories.” It was in reference to the listening advice shared in the interview I did with Linda Crouch, a retired missionary friend. She talked about her friend Meg who listened well to Linda talking about her recent trip to Nigeria. Even though Meg was a missionary herself, she was stingy in sharing her own story. So Linda had all the time she needed to tell hers. I love this word, “stingy.”  I never thought of it being a good word with a positive connotation to it. Ebenezer Scrooge in Charles Dickens A Christmas Carol come to mind when I hear the word “stingy.”   But in the context of relationships, “stingy in sharing our story” is a great principle on several levels, when used properly. Here are three reasons why: Being stingy in sharing your story honors the person sharing theirs In any meaningful conversation you can’t have two stories going on at once. Unfortunately, though, you see this happening all too often. Tune in any TV or radio news show with 3 or more hosts and invariably you hear them talking over each other, fighting for air time. A meaningful conversation requires someone to take the high road by being quiet and listening. We honor people when we relinquish our turn to be the center of attention. It gives voice to people who may not have had a voice. It’s a biblical principle as well. James 1:19, that familiar passage says, “…be quick to listen and slow to speak.” When we take that to heart and put it into practice it manifests another Biblical concept we read in Romans 12:10, “…take delight in honoring each other.” Being stingy in sharing your story brings out the best in you A second reason why being stingy with your story when someone is sharing theirs is a great practice is because it brings out the best in you. The best in you displays relational hospitality, where you invite people into interaction with you by giving them the floor and allowing them to be the focus of attention. To let someone go first in sharing their story is an act of humility, which is always found in the best of our character traits. It’s a sacrifice to let someone have the air time we would like. Letting someone else have the spot light without interruption from you models what good listening looks like. And when we model something for others that will bring out the best in them, it brings out the best in ourselves. Being stingy in sharing your story is an antidote to our loneliness As counterintuitive as it sounds, being stingy in sharing your story is an antidote to loneliness. When you hold back on talking about yourself it creates an opportunity to learn about someone else and a possible point of connection based on their life, not yours. We have a missionary friend who grew up in a large family where everyone talked. In order to be heard she learned how to fight for airtime by talking a lot herself. While that skill served her well as a child, it did just the opposite as an adult. Instead of drawing people to herself, talking a great deal pushed people away. Consequently, she was often lonely. Another thing. When we hold back on talking about ourself so that others can share their story it creates the possibility of broadening our world, which tends to dissipate loneliness.   Now I’ll be the first to admit that many times the stories people share about themselves are boring and repetitive. I know, because some of my stories are boring and repetitive.  A brother-in-law story Recently though, Janet and I were at an extended family event that wasn’t all that interesting to me, and as the afternoon wore on I was itching to go home. Janet, however, was thoroughly enjoying herself and didn’t want to leave.   At one point the subject of military service was mentioned, which prompted me to ask my brother-in-law Rich, “Were you ever in the service?” “Yes,” he said, but nothing more.  I then asked, “What was your your role, your job?” “Paratrooper,” Rich said.  That one word answer changed my mood entirely. I’ve known Rich for many years, but never knew he was paratrooper. This prompted me to ask more more questions about his military service that I found really interesting. Especially about the mechanics of jumping out of airplanes with a parachute on your back. I was so glad I coaxed my brother-in-law into sharing his story instead of telling parts of my own. It made for a far more interesting afternoon. Being stingy with your story doesn’t mean remaining silent about it One final thought on this whole matter: Being stingy with your story doesn’t mean remaining silent about it.  It’s more about waiting your turn. It’s about going last, not first. Good listeners do that, you know.  So what about YOU?  I wonder. Is it possible you may be too generous in sharing your story in ways that keeps someone from sharing theirs? I also wonder if  being stingy with your story isn’t a problem for you, how are you handling the results of letting others fill the air waves with the sound of their voice. What goes on inside you when you can’t get a word in edgewise because other people are dominating the conversation and sucking the air time available for anyone else to talk.  I’ve got some thoughts on this that I’ll share at another time, but I do wonder how  others deal with this relational dynamic Because someone listened… One of our listeners wrote in to tell what happened to her because someone listened. She tells the story of two friends who walked beside her through the death and grief of her 40-something daughter who died of cancer.  “I can’t count the number of times I drove out of their driveway with warm refreshing healing teardrops flowing down my cheeks. Over the years — but especially these past 18 months on the hardest journey I never would have signed up for — they welcomed me with open arms, listened to my ongoing expressions of grief and struggle, fed me with an abundance of Papa God’s love and delicious food, and brought the beauty of laughter into the hard. Their listening love has been a gift of GRACE wrapped in a ribbon of GOLD.” I bet you have stories of what happened to you because someone listened. We’d like to hear them. Closing Before we wrap up today’s show, if you’d like some input regarding a relationship question or issue you’re dealing with, I’d love to hear from you. Just go to JohnCertalic.com/question to leave me a voicemail. If you’d rather put your question in writing, just enter it in the  Comment box at the bottom of the show notes. I’ll do my best to answer your question in a future episode. In closing, I’d also love to hear any thoughts you have about today’s episode. I hope your thinking was stimulated by today’s show, to be stingy in sharing your own story so someone else can share theirs. For when you do, it will help you experience the joy of relationships God desires for you. Because after all, You Were Made for This. Well, that’s it for today. If there’s someone in your life you think might like to hear what you just heard, please forward this episode on to them. Scroll down to the bottom of the show notes and click on one of the options in the yellow “Share This” bar. And don’t forget to spread a little relational sunshine around the people you meet this week. Spark some joy for them.  And I’ll see you again next time. Goodbye for now. Other episodes or resources related to today’s shows 139: Why Should I Listen to This Podcast? 021: The Most Important Relationship of All Last week’s episode 202: The Best Stories All past and future episodes    JohnCertalic.com Our Sponsor Caring for Others, a missionary care ministry, is the sponsor for You Were Made for This. The generosity of people like you supports our ministry. It enables us to continue this weekly podcast and other services we provide to missionaries around the world.

Most of us like a good story. I have found that the best stories are those that draw us in with emotion. They’re usually about relationships and often contain a story within a story. I’ve got one of those for you today that I’m pretty sure you’re going to like.  Welcome to You Were Made for This If you find yourself wanting more from your relationships, you’ve come to the right place. Here you’ll discover practical principles you can use to experience the life-giving relationships you were made for. I’m your host, John Certalic, award-winning author and relationship coach, here to help you find more joy in the relationships God designed for you. To access all past and future episodes, go to the bottom of this page to the yellow "Subscribe" button, then enter your name and email address in the fields above it. The episodes are organized chronologically and are also searchable by topics, categories, and keywords. Today's relationship story The story I want to tell you today comes from a listener response to my recent August 8th email to those on our email list. The email was about that line I love from the PBS TV show, Call the Midwife,  “We learn most when we listen to others” Linda Crouch, a retired missionary now living in North Carolina, wrote to tell me how she’s come to appreciate the great value of people listening to one another. I was so fascinated by what she had to say and the story she told that illustrated the value of listening, that I thought it would make a great podcast episode if I interviewed her. Linda graciously agreed to the interview that you’ll hear in just a minute. As you listen, I’d like you to see if you can identify the predominant emotion in the story. The relationships you’ll hear about are pretty obvious. But see if you can pick up on the emotion that makes hers a great story. And then also, what do you hear as the story within her story? See if you can pick that out. So let’s get into it right now. [I know some of you prefer to read rather than listen to what comes next, but I’m sorry there is no transcript of this best stories episode.] Why today's story is one of the best stories I’ve heard in a while I don’t know about you, but what Linda just shared is one of the best stories I’ve heard in a while.  What an amazing thing she did in organizing a trip for her children and grandchildren to go back to a place where she and her husband spent almost 4 decades of their lives. It’s where her kids grew up and where it formed such an important piece of her identity, and there’s as well.  She could have gone by herself, but she wanted her children to go back with her to experience the joy she experienced. I’m not going to do this, but it would be oh-so interesting to interview 1 or 2 of her adult children, and the same with a couple of the grandkids. To hear how this trip impacted them. Another thing that made this one of the best stories I’ve heard this year is listening to Linda describe the joy she felt in returning to Nigeria with her family. This is the predominant emotion I heard. Joy. I also love how she talked about “the joy of resilience.”  What a breath of fresh air to hear this perspective. And then there was her motive in going back, to say “thank you” to the people she worked with in Nigeria whom she and her husband Jim worked with and ministered to. I love that.  Just recently we hosted a missionary couple who retired this year after 50 some years working in a camping ministry who have been taking a “thank you tour” across the US. They’re meeting with those who have supported them for all these years and who made possible the work they were called to. All to say “thank you” for their faithful support. What a great idea. The story within the story Finally, what made this one of the best stories I’ve heard this year is the story within Linda’s story. It’s the story of Meg and how she blessed Linda by being such a good listener to her sharing her story. For me, that was quite a powerful story within a story. I loved how Linda described the way Meg entered into her story and even though she was a missionary herself, she practiced that great line that Linda quoted, “Be stingy with your own story” when listening to others. What a great line, “Be stingy with your own story.”  May that be true of all of us when we are listening to others. If you got distracted and missed any of this may want to replay this part of the episode.  Because someone listened… I’ll conclude by reminding you of that new feature we’re trying out this season, Because Someone Listened… Send me an email, or fill in the comment box at the bottom of the show notes, where you complete the sentence because someone listened…  Describe a time when someone listened to you well and the impact it had on you.  Closing In closing, I’d love to hear any thoughts you have about today’s episode. I hope your thinking was stimulated by today’s show, to be part of someone’s best story that they experience. For when you do, it will help you experience the joy of relationships God desires for you. Because after all, You Were Made for This. Well, that’s it for today. If there’s someone in your life you think might like to hear what you just heard, please forward this episode to them. Scroll down to the bottom of the show notes and click on one of the options in the yellow “Share This” bar. And don’t forget to spread a little relational sunshine around the people you meet this week. Spark some joy for them.  And I’ll see you again next time. Goodbye for now. Other episodes or resources related to today’s shows 139: Why Should I Listen to This Podcast? 021: The Most Important Relationship of All Last week’s episode 201:Three Relationship Tools to Remember in September Our Sponsor You Were Made for This is sponsored by Caring for Others, a missionary care ministry. The generosity of people like you supports our ministry. It enables us to continue this weekly podcast and other services we provide to missionaries around the world.