Welcome to the Write On Purpose podcast, where we empower aspiring authors in the second half of their lives to discover the joy and fulfillment of crafting their legacy through the written word. Join me, Brad Swift, a seasoned Write On Purpose coach, as I share insights, strategies, and inspirational stories to guide you on your journey of self-discovery and creative expression. You can learn more about right-on-purpose coaching at wbradfordswift.com/coach. Now, here's today's show.

Hello everybody, this is Brad Swift, your Write On Purpose coach. Welcome again to the Write On Purpose podcast. Today, I have the great pleasure of hosting a truly amazing guest, Betsy Alger. Betsy is one of the co-owners, along with Megan Carr, of the Off The Wall Books and Cafe here in Hendersonville, North Carolina, about five minutes from my house. This is a cherished haven for book lovers, writers, and the local community. And quite honestly, it's one of my favorite places to go on one of my artist dates.

Betsy's journey with books spans over several decades, culminating in her heartwarming collection of memories and poems, Hyperlexic Dreams and Bookstore Schemes. I love words that kind of flow like that. Betsy was diagnosed with autism at the age of 33 and lives with face blindness. And I'm going to ask her to pronounce the technical name of that in just a few minutes. Betsy has turned her neurodivergence into a unique strength, creating not only a bookstore that sells books, but also fosters a sense of community and belonging. And again, as I said, one of my favorite places to hang out. Her story is one of resilience, creativity, and a deep love for literature.

Today we're going to dive into the world of indie authors and how they can successfully approach bookstore owners to get their books on their shelves. With her extensive experience and unique perspective, Betsy will share some invaluable insights, tips, and stories that are sure to empower and guide indie authors in their journey. So without further ado, let me welcome the remarkable Betsy Alger to the Write on Purpose podcast. Hey, Betsy.

Hey, it's great to be here today.

Good to have you. Even on a Monday when the bookstore is closed, good to see you as well. So before I forget, let's go back to face blindness. What is that technical term again?

It's prosopagnosia, and it's not strictly a blindness exactly. It's more that my brain doesn't remember faces, so I can't pull them up the way that most people can. Somebody can approach me in the grocery store and I think that they're a complete stranger until they say, "Hi, Betsy, how have you been?" And then I'm like, "Oh, I guess I know this person."

Okay. And it's like, you know, when I walk into the bookstore, I walk in like this: "Hey, Betsy, remember, right? You know, right on purpose, you know, I'm the author." By the way, if you're just listening to this podcast itself, I just showed up my book. A little bit of shameless plugging there as well.

So you could really say it's more like facial amnesia than facial blindness.

Yes, yeah. Face blindness is really a colloquial term that isn't 100% accurate. But yeah, there's no recall at all. And until I learned what it was, I was 29 before I knew that other people could recognize faces.

Wow. That's amazing. 29 years of life going through thinking everybody has the same thing going on and you just don't even question it. Makes me wonder how many other things I'm blind to that everybody else can see that I can't see. But anyway, we might get back to that topic. But first, I want to really dig into this whole thing about indie authors approaching bookstore owners like yourself. So it's a perfect combination that we have here. I'm an indie author, been an indie author for 30 years or so. Betsy is a fairly new, what, two, three years as a bookstore owner. But I tell you, they're lighting the place on fire here. You know, they've got activity. I go in there for a couple of hours, and people are coming in and out. There's another group, another group, and all that. So with indie authors, you know, there's this old saying. I'm not sure what Will Rogers may have said. I'm not sure who said it. You never get a second chance to make a first impression. So what should an indie author consider when making their first approach to a bookstore owner? How important is that initial interaction?

I think it's pretty important. I mean, most booksellers, first of all, are going to recognize you. With me, you might get a second chance because I won't necessarily know unless you tell me. But basically, I'd recommend that you view it as a job interview. So my father was an employment lawyer for most of his life, and he taught me that when you go in for a job interview, you need to know about the company you're applying to. You need to learn about it. Do some research. Find out what they do. What can you bring to this company? And that's what an indie author really needs to do before approaching a bookstore, is to find out what flavor of indie bookstore it is. You know, if they only sell children's books, you're not going to come in and pitch your book for adults, right? Or if it's a Christian bookstore, you're not going to pitch your book that's like, it's wonderful being an atheist, right? But most stores aren't as obvious as all that. Most stores, you're going to have to dig a little deeper.

Yeah. If you come into my store and your book is about how to cure autism, I'm not going to carry it. It doesn't matter how charming or how much else you know about the store. It doesn't fit with what I carry. So you have to actually go in and learn a bit about the bookstore.

Yeah, yeah, makes perfect sense. Like, you know, when I first heard about your bookstore Off The Wall, I didn't realize that you sell not only brand new books, which obviously as an indie author I'm interested in, but you also sell used books, and they're kind of mixed in among the others, not like a whole section of "here's the used books" and "over here are the new books" itself. So, again, you know, knowing that, it's a little additional information.

So there's this whole part about, and you kind of touched on it in that first question, about building a relationship. So what are some of the key do's and also some of those don'ts to avoid for indie authors when they're trying to build a relationship with bookstore owners like yourself?

Well, definitely the most important thing is to build the relationship. So even the fact that you're attempting to do that is huge. Because a lot of times indie authors will just walk into bookstores and say, "Hey, I've written a book, will you carry it?" And that's not something that bookstore owners tend to appreciate. So that's a big don't. Don't just walk in the door and immediately pitch your book. You're going to end up being talked about on an indie bookseller forum with annoyance.

I see it all the time. I didn't even know that there were indie bookstore owner forums. That's a good thing to know. Wow. Are they talking about me?

Yes.

Well, and that's how I got a lot of this information. I'm like, oh, there's a lot of things. Indie authors don't know this stuff because there's not really anybody going out and talking about it. So I'm like, I'm going to start talking about it more. So, you know, do go in. Walk around. Don't let your pitch be the first time that you've gone in the store. Go in a couple of times, especially if you're local. Like, bookstore owners, most of them can recognize you. They're going to know if you've come into their store before. They're going to know if you've supported them. And do buy something. It doesn't have to be a $30 hardcover history book. Buy a few 50-cent stickers, buy a $3 sticker, you know, buy something. It doesn't have to be big. It can be little. We know everybody's a little strapped for cash, but just even the gesture of coming in and being supportive is really helpful. Also, do post on your social media about the local bookstores. Even if they're not carrying your book, be like, "Hey, I went to this cool local bookstore today. It's awesome. You should check it out." If we go to your social media and the only place that you advertise for folks to get your book is Amazon, we're going to notice that. You know, the advertising can't just be on us. Do promote the places that carry your book that aren't the big box stores.

Yeah. Very good point. Yeah. I seem to remember going in, and this is actually a few months ago now, maybe even several months. It was before you had your brand new barista. So you've added a whole other vein to it. But at the time, you were still offering coffees and local pastries. And so I just went in and, you know, like you said, I'm curious about what's in a bookstore anyway. Kind of a natural part to walk around and see what you've got. You have different rooms even, you know, and a place for the kids and all that. And so I ended up ordering, you know, coffee and a Danish or something like that and just hung out for a while. And I've been in there at least once, maybe even twice, while another indie author comes in. And I've seen it. They're there. They're there three minutes, maybe. And oh, by the way, you know, and they start talking about, would you be interested in carrying my book? So you're not making this up. This is happening in real life, guys. We want to be responsible indie authors to really look at, for me, how do you create a win-win scenario? Where, yes, you benefit by them carrying your book locally, but also they benefit by what you can provide as well. So anything you want to say about that?

Yeah, definitely. The more that you promote your book being in our store, the more copies we sell, which benefits us. And then we order more copies, which benefits you. A lot of times in the independent bookseller forums, I hear them talking about how the local author section just nothing sells from it. And if a book doesn't sell or if it takes a really long time to sell, we're not going to get it back in. We're not going to order another copy because we're little. We don't have a lot of space. So if authors aren't promoting it, then we can't sell the book. And if you want us to be around when your next book comes out, you've got to help us sell some books.

Right, right. This is called a bookstore for a reason.

Yes, yes.

Very good. Now, regarding the presentation of the book, how important is the presentation of the book, including the cover design and maybe the synopsis when an indie author is pitching their book to a bookstore after coming in for a couple of visits, after creating a relationship? How important is it?

I mean, I'd say it's definitely less important than the other things. But what I really love is when a cover grabs a customer's attention. So like my book, for example, the cover is a cross stitch that I did of a dragon sitting on a bookshelf reading a book. And it's hanging in my bookstore as well, the original. And a lot of folks come in and buy it just because they're like, "Oh, that's a great cover." The more interesting and intriguing your cover is, the more likely we are to set it up so that it's facing outward as well. I was at an event yesterday and the same book grabbed almost everyone's attention because it was just so clean and it had a little bit of shine to it. And it was just the one that everyone was like, "Oh, this is pretty. I'm gonna stop and look at it." And even though I didn't sell any copies of that specific book, it got several people to stop and look more closely at the other books on my table.

Interesting. Yeah, you know, again, going back from personal experience, I brought in an ARC, a reader's advanced copy, and got you and Megan's input on the cover. And the cover that it is now, and again, I'm going to show it, even though if you're on the podcast part, you may not see it. We may also be doing this on video. This is not the cover that I brought in. The text is the same, the basic picture is the same, but the color, it was all white before. And one of the first things that both you and Megan said is you need more color. So my graphic art person, who happens to be my wife, went to work and thought, "Okay, we got some good suggestions here. How can we add more pop to it?" And so, again, this is part of the win-win. You have a whole different perspective about what sells and what doesn't sell. So it'd be crazy for us indie authors to not listen to that kind of advice. So again, thank you for that valuable input.

So the book cover, and how about the synopsis? Is that important to you as a book? I mean, obviously it's important to the readers, but how important is it to you as far as you're carrying the book or not?

It's important to me because it makes it easier for me to promote your book. I cannot possibly, it is not humanly possible for me to read every single book in my store. So having a good idea of what's in the book. Also, this is where it comes back to relationship building. The more that I have gotten to know an author, the better I can promote their book. Just the more that I know about the book, the more that I know about the author, the better it fits within the values of my bookstore, the more easily I will be able to promote the book. And having a well-written synopsis is great because then I can just copy and paste it. I can put it on my website. I can put it on the, you know, if you're having an author event. I mean, I've used you as an example to other writers as what to do when approaching an indie bookstore because you brought us all the materials that we needed. You were very conscientious about making sure that we had that information and weren't just like, "Oh yeah, here's a book and the author is coming," and we can't really tell people a lot more than that.

Yeah, I think if anything, I tend to err on the side of giving too much information. But then you can pick and choose which is the most valuable. And that's how I learn as well. So can you share some common mistakes you've seen? And you've already shared some of the most obvious ones. Any other common mistakes you've seen indie authors make when approaching a bookstore owner? And particularly anything else about how to avoid pitfalls?

There may not be anything else there, but I want to give you one last shot at that.

I mean, really, the big ones are just like not knowing enough about the store ahead of time, not having built that relationship, expecting us to do all the marketing for your book. We have thousands of books. You know, your fans are the ones who want to buy your book. So if you're telling your fans, "Hey, this bookstore is an awesome place and it carries my book, you know, please buy it from them if you're able to," because we can't offer the discounts that other places can. But if, you know, some of your fans can afford to buy it from us, we appreciate that.

Yeah, and I know one thing that I've done, because I have not worked with an indie bookstore, particularly one so close, and that have kind of the chemistry. I mean, I just love the chemistry of you and Megan and what you're doing. So when I'm talking about my book and I'm handing out the litter cards about our upcoming book signing event, which is taking place at your bookstore, I said, "Whether or not you have any interest in this book, drop on by." I said, "These are super cool people, and having an indie bookstore here in our area is important for book lovers as well as indie authors." So every time I'm doing what I can to kind of, you know, just drop on by. And I always, particularly recently, since you now have the barista with some excellent, excellent coffee, that's a definite draw. You know, okay, you're not interested in books? I bet you're interested in a good cup of coffee. So it's working, you know, it's working.

All right, let's see. Is there anything that indie authors can do to best demonstrate the value that their book can bring to a bookstore, making it an attractive addition to your shelves?

Yes, yeah. I mean, it can help to start off with a compliment about the bookstore to be like, "Oh, you know, here are the things that I appreciate about your bookstore. And here is how I think my book would enhance or add to what I appreciate about your bookstore." You know, talk about how you would promote us. Talk about how, you know, you would mention that we carry your book. Just kind of let us know that you understand that it's a reciprocal relationship. Because I do think that it's easy to forget because I know indie authors do a lot to promote and it's not easy. And I think a lot of bookstore owners also don't realize how much y'all do because most indie bookstore owners are not also indie authors. So there needs to be more conversation, more understanding between the two groups. I was honestly shocked when I was first reading about indie bookstore issues with indie authors. And I was like, "How can there be this disconnect? We should be on the same side. There shouldn't be a disconnect there." And so just recognizing that it's hard to own a bookstore, it's hard to do all the promoting, and it's hard when we can't compete with these big box sellers on price. And so an indie author is letting us know that they recognize that, that they actively do things with their promotion, and that they notice things about our store. It makes it so much more likely that we're going to be like, "Yeah, this is great. It fits with our store, and you recognize that what we do is hard, and we can recognize that what you do is hard." It makes a difference, it really does.

Yes. And, you know, and there is something about the power of collaboration. You know, we're not in competition. You know, we're in collaboration with each other. The win-win kind of attitude, I think, is really important. I'll add one other thing is that, you know, if you're in a situation like I am where I have multiple books, you know, while I approached Betsy initially over the Write On Purpose book, Authoring Your Legacy in the Second Half of Your Life, because it's just now coming out. I also, over time, as we, again, built that relationship, brought in some of my other books, and to me it became clear. You know, I showed them the books and told them a little bit about each one, and they said, "Oh, these Fantastic Fables of Foster Flat book one and two, which are actually inspired by this very location, makes a perfect accompaniment to the books that they would carry of mine." So let them know that there are other books over time. But, you know, while I was tempted to bring in all 33 of my books, I was like, you know, let's not overwhelm them. You know, they've got thousands of books already. Let's kind of sprinkle them in here or there. But there are more coming. Anything you want to say about that?

Yeah, I appreciated that approach very much. Just kind of like a trickle instead of, you know, like a dam bursting. That was much better. And also, you were able to learn a little bit more about our store too, to know that the environmental books that you write would also be a good fit because that fits in with my values and Megan's values, which... Indie bookstores, it's funny because we're not really in competition with each other either because we're all very different. It's a reflection of the owners. We're not corporate. We don't have everything. We have things that we value and that bring value, we hope, to our customers and hopefully reflect our customers' values as well.

Yeah, very good. Well, Betsy, before we wrap up, can you tell us just a little bit more about your book? I'm going to say it again: Hyperlexic Dreams and Bookstore Schemes. We'd love to hear about the inspiration behind it and any particular memories or poems that stand out to you that are in the book.

Well, it's a very experimental volume. I wrote it as part of a workshop. About half of it was written before the workshop, whether years or months before, and then the rest I wrote for the book. I just wanted to provide little snapshots of my life and things in my life that led me to want to own a bookstore and how books really were my best friends growing up. Just being autistic and not knowing it, people were so confusing. And people are still often confusing, but at least now I know why. And books were my refuge. They were safe and solid and predictable. If they got overwhelming, I could close them and put them away for a little while. They never told me that I was, you know, wrong or bad for just being myself or for not knowing what I'd done that was upsetting. And it's a mixture of poetry and prose because I write both. And I think it's the last piece in the book. I forgot to grab out my copy before this just to double-check. But the one where I talk about You've Got Mail, the movie from the 1990s about the shop around the corner and the big bad Fox Books that moves in around the corner from them. And that was such a formative memory for me. And I love that there's so many indie bookstores coming back now. It feels like it's getting better maybe than it was because bookstores were disappearing for most of my life, and I love watching them come back now and being part of it.

I would have to agree with you on that one for sure. Well, Betsy, I want to thank you so much for sharing your valuable insights and experiences with us today. Your journey and advice are truly inspiring and empowering for all indie authors out there. I'd like to direct this to our listeners. I want you to remember that the path to getting your book into a bookstore really does begin with you. As Betsy has highlighted, making a great first impression, making sure you build those meaningful relationships, and presenting your book in the best possible light are all crucial steps.

Effective communication, avoiding those common pitfalls, and demonstrating the value that your book brings to a bookstore can set you apart and pave the way for success from all those other indie authors who just walk in there, you know, "carry my book, carry my book," like that. Remember also that every story deserves to be told, and every book has the potential to touch lives. So take Betsy's advice to heart, complete your manuscripts, and approach your local bookstores with confidence and professionalism. The relationship you build with them could be the key to reaching a wider audience and making a lasting impact.

I want to thank you for tuning in to Write On Purpose podcast. This is Brad Swift, your Write On Purpose coach, reminding you to write with purpose, publish with pride, and share your stories with the world. Until next time, keep writing and living on purpose. Take care, everybody.

Unleashed - W. Bradford Swift is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.

This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit wbradfordswift.substack.com/subscribe