In this episode, Michael Mauboussin welcomes Eddie Perkin, former Chief Investment Officer at Eaton Vance and Goldman Sachs Asset Management, to discuss the principles behind better investment decision-making. Eddie shares how his early experiences shaped his investment philosophy before examining quality value investing, behavioral biases, and the importance of process over outcomes. The conversation explores leadership, collaborative conflict, confirmation bias, portfolio construction, selling discipline, and how investment organizations can create environments that encourage independent thinking. Eddie also reflects on the future of investing, the opportunities created by technological change, and the books and ideas that continue to influence his thinking—and much more! Key Topics Eddie Perkin's background and journey into investing (2:58)  Early lessons in behavioral biases and groupthink (6:31)  The "Mercedes with a scratch" approach to quality value investing (9:03)  Investing across U.S., European, and emerging markets (10:54)  Why great businesses should be identified before valuation screens (13:15)  Developing variant perception through research and preparation (15:12)  Leading investment teams through focus, accountability, and empowerment (17:58)  The behavioral biases that damage investment organizations most (21:01)  The Robinson Crusoe exercise for identifying long-term compounders (22:43)  Outcome bias and lessons from NFL two-point conversion decisions (25:11)  Combating confirmation bias with devil's advocates and AI (29:32)  Improving investment sell decisions through process and discipline (32:20)  Active management, indexing, and market efficiency (35:17)  Time horizons, retail investors, and short-term market noise (37:31)  Leading teams through organizational change during the financial crisis (39:22)  Hiring for curiosity, independent thinking, and constructive conflict (41:37)  Running effective investment meetings and encouraging dissent (44:10)  Specialists versus generalists in investment research (46:56)  Incentives that reinforce performance and collaboration (48:18)  Advice for aspiring investment professionals and the role of AI (50:18)  Why Eddie remains optimistic about the future of investing (53:06)  Eddie's book and podcast recommendations (54:38)  And much more!  Mentioned in this Episode Eaton Vance  Goldman Sachs Asset Management  Morgan Stanley Investment Management  Invesco  Babson College  Columbia Business School  Berkshire Hathaway  Bank of America  Nike  FactSet  SpaceX  Running Against the Herd: Battling Biases to Make Better Investment Decisions — Eddie Perkin  The Courage to Be Disliked — Ichiro Kishimi & Fumitake Koga  Quest for Value — G. Bennett Stewart III  Robinson Crusoe — Daniel Defoe  What Happens Next podcast — Larry Bernstein  Thanks for Listening!   Be sure to subscribe on Apple, Google, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. And feel free to drop us a line at [email protected].   Follow the Heilbrunn Center on social media on Instagram, LinkedIn, and more!  

In this episode, hosts Tano Santos and Michael Mauboussin welcome Django Davidson, Partner and Portfolio Manager at Hosking Partners, for a discussion of the capital cycle approach to investing. Django shares how his unconventional upbringing, experience covering banks during the Global Financial Crisis, and early exposure to Warren Buffett's letters shaped his investment philosophy. The conversation explores the origins of the capital cycle framework, how investors can identify industries experiencing excessive capital formation or capital scarcity, and why patience and long-term capital are essential to capturing opportunities. They also examine current AI investment trends, the evolution of the semiconductor industry, Japan's corporate reforms, and several real-world investment case studies, including Micron Technology and Saga. The discussion concludes with reflections on industrial resilience, supply chains, and book recommendations—and much more! Key Topics: ● Django's upbringing, education, and path into investing (2:08) ● Lessons from covering banks during the Global Financial Crisis (3:50) ● Discovering Warren Buffett's letters and their influence on his investment philosophy (5:33) ● Investing during periods of crisis and the importance of trust in financial systems (7:23) ● The origins and foundations of the capital cycle framework (12:58) ● Using the capital cycle as a lens for contrarian investing (16:28) ● Long-term capital and identifying multi-bagger opportunities (19:59) ● Japan's corporate reforms and improving returns on capital (23:30) ● Timing challenges, diversification, and capital cycle investing (28:07) ● AI, semiconductor investment, and today's technology spending boom (32:15) ● Google, AI economics, and capital deployment considerations (40:30) ● Micron Technology and the evolution of the memory semiconductor industry (42:08) ● The Saga investment case study and opportunities in overlooked businesses (44:35) ● Demographics, aging consumers, and serving older customers effectively (49:59) ● Supply chain resilience and industrial capacity in Western economies (51:53) ● Django's book recommendations (54:05) ● And much more!   Mentioned in this Episode: ● Hosking Partners ● Deutsche Bank ● TCI Fund Management ● Micron Technology ● Google ● Meta Platforms ● Oracle Corporation ● OpenAI ● Anthropic ● Walmart ● First Quantum Minerals ● Saga plc ● The Material World ● The Bolter   Thanks for Listening!   Be sure to subscribe on Apple, Google, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. And feel free to drop us a line at [email protected].   Follow the Heilbrunn Center on social media on Instagram, LinkedIn, and more!  

Jim Flynn is the Managing Partner of Deerfield Management, a healthcare-focused investment firm overseeing approximately $16 billion in assets. In this episode, hosts Michael Mauboussin and Tano Santos speak with Jim about his path from studying biology and economics to leading one of the industry's most distinctive healthcare investment platforms. Jim explains how Deerfield evolved from a public-equity-focused firm into an organization spanning public markets, private investments, venture creation, drug development, data science, and philanthropy. The conversation examines the challenges of healthcare investing, the importance of probabilistic thinking, the role of artificial intelligence in healthcare delivery and drug discovery, and Deerfield's approach to identifying opportunities across the healthcare ecosystem. Jim also shares insights on senior housing, healthcare innovation, regulatory dynamics, and the skills required for the next generation of healthcare investors, and much more!    Key Topics: ● Jim Flynn's background in biology, economics, and early investing influences (2:27) ● Lessons from working in corporate development and understanding business operations (4:30) ● Joining Deerfield and the evolution from analyst to firm leader (7:52) ● Expanding Deerfield beyond public equities into venture, private investments, and philanthropy (10:36) ● Building a flexible healthcare investment platform across market cycles (13:58) ● The Melinta case study and transforming a distressed investment into an operating success (14:32) ● Artificial intelligence and its potential impact on healthcare delivery and diagnosis (18:52) ● AI adoption challenges and the role of healthcare institutions in driving change (22:13) ● Why proprietary healthcare data creates durable investment advantages (25:50) ● The creation of Deerfield Discovery and Development and CURE (27:12) ● Cross-pollination between public and private investing at Deerfield (31:05) ● The NewAmsterdam Pharma (NewValent) case study from concept to multibillion-dollar company (33:08) ● Investing in senior housing and demographic-driven opportunities (36:20) ● Evaluating healthcare policy, drug pricing, and regulatory risks through a long-term lens (40:16) ● Skills and characteristics needed for future healthcare investors (43:09) ● What worries and motivates Jim Flynn as a healthcare investor (44:30) ● Deerfield's investment process, team structure, and reducing analytical bias (46:53) ● Personal healthcare practices, longevity, and access to medical information (51:25) ● And much more!   Mentioned in this Episode: ● Deerfield Management ● Alpharma ● Kidder Peabody ● GlaxoSmithKline ● Sanofi ● Hospital for Special Surgery ● Brookdale Senior Living ● OpenAI ● ChatGPT ● GRAIL ● Food and Drug Administration    Thanks for Listening!   Be sure to subscribe on Apple, Google, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. And feel free to drop us a line at [email protected]. Follow the Heilbrunn Center on social media on Instagram, LinkedIn, and more!

In this episode, hosts Tano Santos and Michael Mauboussin speak with Matthew Fine, portfolio manager at Third Avenue Management, about his path into investing and the firm's value-driven philosophy. Matthew reflects on lessons from early experiences like the Argentine crisis and explains how balance sheet strength and long-term thinking shape investment decisions. The conversation examines global opportunities across Europe, Japan, and commodities, along with the role of resource conversion in value creation. They also discuss market structure shifts, portfolio resilience during crises, and the challenges of identifying mispriced assets in a changing investment landscape and much more!   Key Topics: ● Introduction and background of Matthew Fine (0:00) ● Early interest in investing and joining Third Avenue (3:37) ● First investments during the dot-com bubble (5:54) ● Marty Whitman's influence and value investing philosophy (7:23) ● Importance of downside thinking and credit mindset (9:20) ● Benchmark agnosticism and high active share (10:14) ● Experience during the Argentine crisis (11:45) ● Generalists vs. specialists in investing (14:12) ● Financial strength and resource conversion explained (18:34) ● Portfolio resilience during major market crises (21:28) ● Understanding market disagreement and investor behavior (24:54) ● Impact of passive investing and short-term strategies (30:27) ● Artificial intelligence and investment process (33:03) ● European banks and Bank of Ireland case study (34:38) ● CK Hutchison and value creation through transactions (40:42) ● Commodity investing and copper thesis (45:14) ● Opportunities and challenges in Japan (49:26) ● Advice for students entering investment management (53:22) ● Concerns about U.S. equity valuations and future outlook (55:28) ● Book recommendations and closing thoughts (56:59) ● And much more! Mentioned in this Episode: ● Third Avenue Management ● Bank of Ireland ● Deutsche Bank ● CK Hutchison ● BlackRock ● MSC (Mediterranean Shipping Company) ● The Sugar King of Havana ● How the World Really Works – Vaclav Smil ● Pioneering Portfolio Management – David Swensen ● Ten Global Trends Every Smart Person Should Know About – Marian Tupy Thanks for Listening!   Be sure to subscribe on Apple, Google, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. And feel free to drop us a line at [email protected]. Follow the Heilbrunn Center on social media on Instagram, LinkedIn, and more!

In this episode, hosts Michael Mauboussin and Tano Santos speak with Jenny Harrington, CEO of Gilman Hill Asset Management, about her approach to dividend-focused investing. Jenny shares her journey from early internships to portfolio management and explains how her strategy targets steady income through high-quality dividend-paying companies. The discussion examines risk management through cash flow, valuation discipline, and behavioral considerations that influence investor outcomes. Jenny also outlines her screening process, portfolio construction, and how she evaluates dividend sustainability. The conversation touches on lessons from market cycles, the role of communication in investing, and how technological changes may shape future opportunities and risks and much more! Key Topics: ● Introduction to dividend investing and its role in total returns (0:00) ● Jenny Harrington's early career and path into portfolio management (3:05) ● Lessons from internships and exposure to market professionals (3:10) ● Experience at Goldman Sachs and insights from the dot-com bubble (10:03) ● Transition to Neuberger Berman and developing an income strategy (15:01) ● Philosophy of portfolio management and client-focused outcomes (16:45) ● Structure of the dividend income strategy and screening process (20:58) ● Differences between dividend income and dividend growth investing (27:30) ● Portfolio construction, position sizing, and diversification approach (36:25) ● Case study: Clorox investment thesis and valuation framework (40:03) ● Case study: Best Buy and identifying value through free cash flow (46:06) ● Impact of Columbia Business School on investment philosophy (49:48) ● Importance of communication and behavioral discipline in investing (54:47) ● Views on AI, job disruption, and future market implications (57:02) ● Book recommendations and information sources (59:06) ● And much more!   Mentioned in this Episode:  ● Gilman Hill Asset Management ● Goldman Sachs ● Neuberger Berman ● Columbia Business School ● CNBC ● Van Leeuwen Ice Cream ● Best Buy ● Clorox ● Kimberly-Clark ● IBM ● Hewlett Packard ● PayPal ● Poor Charlie's Almanack by Charles T. Munger ● Pioneering Portfolio Management by David Swensen ● Elon Musk by Walter Isaacson   Thanks for Listening!   Be sure to subscribe on Apple, Google, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. And feel free to drop us a line at [email protected].   Follow the Heilbrunn Center on social media on Instagram, LinkedIn, and more!  

In this episode, Tano Santos speaks with Samer Sarraf, Founding Partner and COO of Amwal Capital Partners, about his journey from engineering and construction to Lehman Brothers and ultimately founding a public equities firm focused on the GCC. Samer reflects on lessons from the 2008 financial crisis, why private equity struggled in the region, and how his team applies a private equity mindset to public markets. The conversation examines regulatory change, market structure in Saudi and the UAE, concentrated investing, and a deep dive into Abu Dhabi Ports and much more!        Key Topics:     ●Samer's upbringing in Jordan and the role of education and entrepreneurship in his family (3:35) ● Studying civil engineering at McGill and early career in construction in Paris and Tahiti (9:46) ● Transition to Columbia Business School and pivot toward finance (16:16) ● Joining Lehman Brothers' real estate group and structuring CMBS transactions (17:57) ● Early signs of stress in credit markets ahead of the financial crisis (23:28) ● Moving from investment banking to private equity in the GCC (26:48) ● Why the private equity model struggled in the region (35:02) ● Founding Amwal Capital Partners and testing the strategy with personal capital (31:15) ● The structure and liquidity of GCC public markets, including Saudi Arabia and the UAE (37:24) ● Applying a "private equity DNA" approach to public equities (43:23) ● Using regulatory insight and on-the-ground research as a competitive edge (49:45) ● Portfolio construction and concentrated positioning in regional markets (55:18) ● Case study: Abu Dhabi Ports and the long-term logistics and industrialization thesis (56:27) ● And much more!  Mentioned in this Episode:   ● Amwal Capital Partners   ● Lehman Brothers   ● Abu Dhabi Ports   ● Dubai Ports World   ● McGill University   ● Columbia Business School        Thanks for Listening!    Be sure to subscribe on Apple, Google, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. And feel free to drop us a line at [email protected].    Follow the Heilbrunn Center on social media on Instagram, LinkedIn, and more! 

Ricky Sandler, founder, CEO, and CIO of Eminence Capital, joins hosts Michael Mauboussin and Tano Santos to explore a dynamic career spanning over three decades in long-short investing. Starting with stories from his upbringing and early career, Ricky unpacks the foundations of his investment philosophy centered around "change in perception" — a framework shaped by evolving market structures and investor behavior. He shares insights from navigating the 1998 crisis, outlines the value of rigorous risk management, and explains how quality businesses combined with contrarian thinking create lasting opportunities. The conversation also delves into quant integration, thoughtful activism, the nuances of portfolio construction, and his reflections on AI, market structure, and societal risks — and much more! Key Topics: ● Ricky Sandler's upbringing, tennis, and early exposure to finance (0:00)  ● The influence of competitive tennis on his investing mindset (3:58)  ● Why he considered law before ultimately pursuing finance (5:55)  ● Lessons from early roles at Mark Asset and Fusion Capital (7:30)  ● Insights from the 1998 market crisis and developing better risk management (10:06)  ● Defining 'change in perception' and its role in investment strategy (12:21)  ● Understanding shifts in market behavior post-GFC (14:42)  ● COVID-era investment case study: Red Rock Resorts (22:31)  ● Portfolio construction principles and balancing risk/reward (27:56)  ● Integrating quant and data science at Eminence Capital (33:44)  ● Activism and engaged ownership strategies (36:34)  ● Thoughts on AI, bubbles, and systemic market risks (38:36)  ● Risk management and portfolio design in volatile environments (41:06)  ● How Ricky trains his team to distill what matters in investing (42:39)  ● AI's role in analyst work and future of research (44:27)  ● Worries and hopes for the future: market structure, government debt, and optimism (46:39)  ● Book and podcast recommendations (49:30)  ● Closing remarks (51:02)  ● And much more! Mentioned in this Episode: ● Eminence Capital  ● Ashland Inc.  ● Entain  ● Red Rock Resorts  ● Live Nation  ● Meta  ● Tesla  ● Salesforce  ● Zillow  ● KKR  ● Pluralsight  ● Autodesk  ● Men's Wearhouse ● Think Again by Adam Grant  ● Grit by Angela Duckworth  ● Teaming by Amy Edmondson  ● Quit by Annie Duke  ● Mindset by Carol Dweck  ● Invisible Influence by Jonah Berger  ● Lessons of the Titans by Tim Ferriss  ● 1929 by Andrew Ross Sorkin Thanks for Listening! Be sure to subscribe on Apple, Google, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. And feel free to drop us a line at [email protected]. Follow the Heilbrunn Center on social media on Instagram, LinkedIn, and more! Apple Podcasts Google Podcasts Spotify  Email Heilbrunn Center Instagram LinkedIn

Robert Robotti, President and CIO of Robotti & Company Advisors, joins host Michael Mauboussin to explore a lifetime shaped by value investing. With deep roots in accounting and formative experiences auditing firms like Tweedy, Browne, Bob shares how those early exposures led him to a career buying underfollowed, undervalued companies. In this episode, Bob discusses how his contrarian approach has thrived amid market inefficiencies, especially in cyclical industries and under-the-radar public firms. He breaks down key investments, including Builders FirstSource and Tidewater, and explains why capital allocation, aligned incentives, and patience are critical to long-term success. He also addresses private equity, passive investing, and how AI might affect the future of both business operations and markets — and much more!   Key Topics: Introduction (0:00) Bob's upbringing and early exposure to entrepreneurship (2:09) How auditing Tweedy, Browne sparked Bob's interest in value investing (4:17) Learning through Tony Pustorino and practical accounting (4:32) Early influences from Walter Schloss, Joe Reilly, and Tweedy, Browne (5:39) Experience working with Mario Gabelli (6:57) Founding Robotti & Company and the original value edge (8:54) Explaining pink sheet stocks and early investment strategies (10:00) Philosophy on intrinsic value and discounted investments (14:31) Mispricings from passive investing and cyclical businesses (16:24) Views on private equity vs. public markets (19:27) Being a generalist with deep knowledge in housing and energy (21:45) Simplified valuation approach and the Builders FirstSource case (23:41) Portfolio construction, sizing, and turnover explained (28:58) Maintaining a patient capital base (33:38) The Tidewater investment: thesis, board involvement, and strategy (36:42) Capital allocation philosophy: buybacks vs. dividends (49:08) Executive incentives and importance of management quality (51:02) How Robotti sees AI impacting business and investing (53:13) Thoughts on traditional business education and tangible assets (57:13) Geopolitical risks, China's influence, and global economic concerns (58:03) And much more! Mentioned in this Episode: Robotti & Company Advisors Tweedy, Browne Gabelli & Company Builders FirstSource Tidewater Inc. Amrep Corporation Pulse Seismic Inc. Museum of American Finance U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) Lucadia National Third Avenue Value Canadian Natural Resources Think Again by Adam Grant Grit by Angela Duckworth Teaming by Amy Edmondson Quit by Annie Duke   Thanks for Listening! Be sure to subscribe on Apple, Google, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. And feel free to drop us a line at [email protected]. Follow the Heilbrunn Center on social media on Instagram, LinkedIn, and more!

In this episode, host Tano Santos sits down with Richard Brekka, founder and managing partner of Second Alpha, to examine the lesser-known world of secondary investing in private technology companies. With decades of experience—from venture capital to secondary transactions—Richard shares his journey through private equity at Chase and CIBC, his role in building and reviving companies like Gomez Inc., and how that led him to identify a unique investment niche. He explains the mechanics of sourcing deals in illiquid markets, using data and AI to surface hidden gems, and the psychology of getting deals done. The discussion also explores valuations, exits, and policy implications of private market access for 401(k) investors, plus the impact of AI on business fundamentals and much more! Key Topics: ● Richard's early exposure to entrepreneurship and finance (3:29) ● Lessons from Arthur Laffer and University of Chicago MBA experience (6:15) ● Early career in private equity at Chase and learning value investing (8:12) ● Starting Dolphin Equity Partners after CIBC and early challenges (14:06) ● The rise and fall—and rebirth—of Gomez Inc. (17:18) ● Discovering secondary investing through Gomez's cap table (23:58) ● The founding and investment strategy of Second Alpha (26:29) ● Understanding the structure and dynamics of the secondary market (30:21) ● How Second Alpha sources deals and builds its data pipeline (35:49) ● The process of deal execution and managing rights of refusal (41:11) ● Case study: Prove Identity and growth through secondaries (52:29) ● Thoughts on liquidity, valuation, and 401(k) access to private markets (55:35) ● AI's impact on private companies and investment strategies (59:19) ● Book and podcast recommendations (1:01:34) ● And much more!   Mentioned in this Episode: ● Second Alpha ● Chase ● CIBC ● Gomez Inc. ● Prove Identity ● TouchCommerce ● Arthur Laffer ● Acquired (podcast) ● Warren Buffett – Berkshire Hathaway Annual Letters ● Berkshire Hathaway Annual Shareholder Letters   Thanks for Listening!   Be sure to subscribe on Apple, Google, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. And feel free to drop us a line at [email protected]. Follow the Heilbrunn Center on social media on Instagram, LinkedIn, and more!

Amit Wadhwaney, founding partner and portfolio manager at Moerus Capital Management, joins hosts Tano Santos and Michael Mauboussin to trace his unorthodox journey from Bombay to Concordia to founding a value investing firm focused on the balance sheet. Along the way, he discusses his early exposure to Marty Whitman, lessons from Third Avenue's international expansion, and what led him to start Moerus.   Amit outlines the core of his investment approach—asset-based valuation, downside protection, and long-term holding periods—and explains why macro factors are typically disqualifiers, not drivers, in his process. He shares insights into portfolio construction, the role of currency risk, and how Moerus identified undervalued opportunities in places like Argentina, Japan, and the gold sector.   Key Topics: ● Growing up in India and finding investing through chemical engineering and economics (3:04) ● Discovering Marty Whitman via an obscure academic book on value investing (5:05) ● Lessons from selling real estate during Quebec's post-referendum panic (9:23) ● Joining MJ Whitman and watching Third Avenue evolve (11:12) ● Pioneering international value investing at Third Avenue (17:05) ● Founding Moerus Capital: philosophy, culture, and investment constraints (24:38) ● Moerus's asset-based investment framework (28:48) ● Managing macro risk and volatility through conservatism, not forecasts (30:41) ● Risk management: internal, external, and business model-related risks (33:00) ● Portfolio construction, position sizing, and concentration limits (46:39) ● Currency exposure and when to hedge (49:12) ● Case studies: Grupo Galicia and Despegar during Argentina's political shift (51:15) ● What keeps Amit up at night: industrial policy, broken immigration, and political gridlock (1:00:52) ● What Amit is reading—and what the Norton Simon Museum can teach investors (1:03:39) ● And much more!   Mentioned in this Episode: ● Moerus Capital Management ● Third Avenue Management ● MJ Whitman ● Marty Whitman ● Grupo Financiero Galicia ● Despegar.com ● Wheaton Precious Metals ● Major Drilling Group ● Dundee Corporation ● UniCredit ● LATAM Airlines ● Journal of Economic Literature ● Shubik and Whitman's The Aggressive Conservative Investor   Thanks for Listening!   Be sure to subscribe on Apple, Google, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. And feel free to drop us a line at [email protected]. Follow the Heilbrunn Center on social media on Instagram, LinkedIn, and more!