Welcome back to another packed episode of U.S. Rugby Happy Hour! We kick things off celebrating Bill's Emmy win! and with our high-energy, unapologetically American intro jingle before diving into "The National Maul" segment with journalist Martin Pengelly, where we break down the latest Major League Rugby structural updates and college rugby governance. Later in the episode, we sit down with USA Rugby CEO Bill Goren and CRAA Executive Director Paul Keeler to discuss the landmark strategic partnership and joint venture between USA Rugby and the Collegiate Rugby Association of America (CRAA). Goren and Keeler explain how this collaboration injects vital resources and financial oversight into collegiate rugby while preserving the grassroots community that built it. Tune in for an essential look at the future of the domestic game! Chapters: 00:00 Welcome to U.S. Rugby Happy Hour 01:10 Co-Hosts Catch-Up - Bill Wins an Emmy! 03:00 The National Maul with Martin Pengelly: MLR Status & College Rugby 13:19 Intro to USA Rugby CEO Bill Goren & CRAA ED Paul Keeler 15:00 The Vision Behind the USA Rugby and CRAA Joint Venture 22:30 Providing Resources, Staffing, and Financial Oversight to College Programs 31:10 Previewing the 2026–27 Postseason and National Championship Series 40:00 Preserving Grassroots Communities While Scaling High Performance Hashtags: #USARugby #CRAA #MartinPengelly #CollegeRugby #MLR #RugbyPodcast #RugbyGrowth —————————————— Connect with US Rugby Happy Hour: * Twitter: https://x.com/AmerRugbyRising * Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/americanrugbyrising/ * Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/AmericanRugbyRising/ * Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@americanrugbyrising * Tiktok: https://www.tiktok.com/@americanrugbyrising * BlueSky: https://bsky.app/profile/americanrugbyrisin.bsky.social * LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/3OjEHf8 🎧 Listen to this and previous episodes of US Rugby Happy Hour on Youtube and your favorite podcast player today! iHeart: bit.ly/3A43Tff Apple: bit.ly/3Uuj9u7 Spotify: bit.ly/3ZxjAa0 Youtube: https://youtu.be/D2qTa6l54tc Like, follow, and subscribe and please leave a comment!! Check out americanrugbyrising.com for the latest on your USA Eagles, schedules, news and more, and visit rugbymorning.com for the latest on ALL rugby! Hosts, Bill Baker and John Fitzpatrick are available for media opportunities and appearances. Contact information below. Bill Baker, an Emmy award winning editor and producer, has curated Eagles Overseas Rugby since 1996, providing updates and news stories about USA Eagles plying their trade around the world. http://www.americanrugbyrising.com⁠ ⁠[email protected]⁠ John Fitzpatrick is the brain behind Rugby Morning, serving rugby news everyday via email newsletters to rugby fans around the world. ⁠[email protected]⁠ ⁠http://www.rugbymorning.com Martin Pengelly is a Washington-based reporter and editor. His “The National Maul” Substack about rugby in the US. His first book, Brotherhood: When West Point Rugby Went To War, is published by Godine. https://thenationalmaul.substack.com/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome back to another packed episode of U.S. Rugby Happy Hour! We kick things off with a high-energy intro featuring our proud, unapologetically American theme song. Then, we sit down for an extensive, incredibly candid conversation with USA Men's Rugby Head Coach Scott Lawrence to break down the summer test series, player development, and the path forward. Coach Lawrence opens up about the squad's performance during the recent Nations Cup, utilizing data to shape team identity, and navigating high-pressure moments using principles of stoicism. We also dive into roster updates, the impact of Major League Rugby's structural shifts, player eligibility pathways, and how the team is preparing for the grueling heat in Florida ahead of upcoming fixtures against Argentina 15s. Tune in for the most insightful breakdown of American rugby you'll hear all season! Chapters: 00:00 Welcome to U.S. Rugby Happy Hour & Intro Jingle 03:51 Interview Start: Catching up with Coach Scott Lawrence 05:05 Applying Stoicism and Process-Driven Coaching 06:23 Nations Cup Review & Playing at a Faster Pace 10:07 Programmatic Goals for July and Building Depth 15:47 Standout Players: Dominic Besag, Paddy Ryan, and More 22:23 Player Qualification Insights: Charlie Abel and Perry Mayo 31:01 Injury Updates: Corey Daniel, Kaleb Geiger, AJ McGinty, and David Ainu'u 33:10 Impact of MLR Restructuring on Domestic Talent 37:11 Looking Ahead: Training in Florida and Argentina 15s 39:00 Using Data Analytics and Storytelling in Rugby 43:46 The Moonshot Goal for American Rugby #USARugby #EaglesRugby #ScottLawrence #MLR #RugbyPodcast #rugbyanalysis —————————————— Connect with US Rugby Happy Hour: * Twitter: https://x.com/AmerRugbyRising * Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/americanrugbyrising/ * Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/AmericanRugbyRising/ * Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@americanrugbyrising * Tiktok: https://www.tiktok.com/@americanrugbyrising * BlueSky: https://bsky.app/profile/americanrugbyrisin.bsky.social * LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/3OjEHf8 🎧 Listen to this and previous episodes of US Rugby Happy Hour on Youtube and your favorite podcast player today! iHeart: bit.ly/3A43Tff Apple: bit.ly/3Uuj9u7 Spotify: bit.ly/3ZxjAa0 Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkYbnIvt-gI&t=2s Like, follow, and subscribe and please leave a comment!! Check out americanrugbyrising.com for the latest on your USA Eagles, schedules, news and more, and visit rugbymorning.com for the latest on ALL rugby! Hosts, Bill Baker and John Fitzpatrick are available for media opportunities and appearances. Contact information below. Bill Baker, an Emmy award winning editor and producer, has curated Eagles Overseas Rugby since 1996, providing updates and news stories about USA Eagles plying their trade around the world. http://www.americanrugbyrising.com⁠ ⁠[email protected]⁠ John Fitzpatrick is the brain behind Rugby Morning, serving rugby news everyday via email newsletters to rugby fans around the world. ⁠[email protected]⁠ ⁠http://www.rugbymorning.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Join us on this week’s U.S. Rugby Happy Hour as we explore the heart and soul of the American game. We kick things off with our signature "National Maul" segment, featuring the insightful and always opinionated Martin Pengelly, who joins us to discuss the unique challenges of American rugby infrastructure and the evolution of the USA Eagles’ identity. In our main segment, our jingle department's latest masterpiece—a cello-accordion techno anthem that you absolutely have to hear to believe! Then, we sit down with USA Eagle and Saint Mary’s standout Dominic Besag. At just 21, Dom has already racked up an incredible 20 caps for the senior national team, and he gives us an exclusive look at life in the Eagles’ camp under coach Scott Lawrence. From his perspective on the "process-over-scoreboard" mentality to his candid thoughts on the future of collegiate rugby scholarships, Dom provides a front-row seat to the future of American rugby. This is an episode you won’t want to miss! Chapters: 00:00 Intro & The Jingle 02:54 The National Maul w/ Martin Pengelly 05:30 Rugby Infrastructure in the US 19:00 The Eagles' Performance & Identity 23:05 Interview with Dominic Besag 26:18 The College/International Balance 31:18 Scott Lawrence’s Process 43:00 The College Scholarship Gap 45:00 Looking Ahead to 2027 Hashtags: #USARugby #Eagles #RugbyPodcast #DominicBesag #TheNationalMaul #CollegeRugby —————————————— Connect with US Rugby Happy Hour: * Twitter: https://x.com/AmerRugbyRising * Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/americanrugbyrising/ * Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/AmericanRugbyRising/ * Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@americanrugbyrising * Tiktok: https://www.tiktok.com/@americanrugbyrising * BlueSky: https://bsky.app/profile/americanrugbyrisin.bsky.social * LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/3OjEHf8 🎧 Listen to this and previous episodes of US Rugby Happy Hour on Youtube and your favorite podcast player today! iHeart: bit.ly/3A43Tff Apple: bit.ly/3Uuj9u7 Spotify: bit.ly/3ZxjAa0 Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkYbnIvt-gI&t=2s Like, follow, and subscribe and please leave a comment!! Check out americanrugbyrising.com for the latest on your USA Eagles, schedules, news and more, and visit rugbymorning.com for the latest on ALL rugby! Hosts, Bill Baker and John Fitzpatrick are available for media opportunities and appearances. Contact information below. Bill Baker, an Emmy award winning editor and producer, has curated Eagles Overseas Rugby since 1996, providing updates and news stories about USA Eagles plying their trade around the world. http://www.americanrugbyrising.com⁠ ⁠[email protected]⁠ John Fitzpatrick is the brain behind Rugby Morning, serving rugby news everyday via email newsletters to rugby fans around the world. ⁠[email protected]⁠ ⁠http://www.rugbymorning.com Martin Pengelly is a Washington-based reporter and editor. His “The National Maul” Substack about rugby in the US. His first book, Brotherhood: When West Point Rugby Went To War, is published by Godine. https://thenationalmaul.substack.com/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Join us on U.S. Rugby Happy Hour LIVE as we dive into the latest developments in the American game. We open the show with Martin Pengelly of The National Maul, who breaks down the cultural identity of the USA Eagles under Scott Lawrence, shares his thoughts on the new Rugby Nations Championship, and explores the viral moments that define the sport. We also feature our signature, slightly chaotic, jingle-filled introduction that has become a staple of the show. In the second half, we are thrilled to be joined by rising USA Women’s Eagle and Life University standout, Bella Vogel. Bella gives us an exclusive look at what it’s like to step into the number ten jersey for the senior national team at just 19 years old, her experiences transitioning from the collegiate pitch to the international stage, and her long-term dreams of competing on the world’s biggest rugby stages. Whether you're a long-time fan or new to the game, this episode is your front-row seat to the future of American rugby. Chapters: 00:00 Intro & The July 4th Break 02:45 The National Maul: Martin Pengelly 06:20 Scott Lawrence, American Identity & Rugby Culture 14:28 Eagles Women vs. South Africa Recaps 16:20 Bella Vogel: Life University & USA Debut 28:20 The First International Cap: Emotions & Pressure 31:45 Collegiate vs. International Rugby 33:55 Life University Success & The 2033 World Cup 41:15 Future Goals: PWR & NRLW Dreams Hashtags: #USARugby #WomensRugby #TheNationalMaul #BellaVogel #EaglesOverseas #RugbyPodcast #LifeUniversity #mlrp —————————————— Connect with US Rugby Happy Hour: * Twitter: https://x.com/AmerRugbyRising * Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/americanrugbyrising/ * Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/AmericanRugbyRising/ * Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@americanrugbyrising * Tiktok: https://www.tiktok.com/@americanrugbyrising * BlueSky: https://bsky.app/profile/americanrugbyrisin.bsky.social * LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/3OjEHf8 🎧 Listen to this and previous episodes of US Rugby Happy Hour on Youtube and your favorite podcast player today! iHeart: bit.ly/3A43Tff Apple: bit.ly/3Uuj9u7 Spotify: bit.ly/3ZxjAa0 Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkYbnIvt-gI&t=2s Like, follow, and subscribe and please leave a comment!! Check out americanrugbyrising.com for the latest on your USA Eagles, schedules, news and more, and visit rugbymorning.com for the latest on ALL rugby! Hosts, Bill Baker and John Fitzpatrick are available for media opportunities and appearances. Contact information below. Bill Baker, an Emmy award winning editor and producer, has curated Eagles Overseas Rugby since 1996, providing updates and news stories about USA Eagles plying their trade around the world. http://www.americanrugbyrising.com⁠ ⁠[email protected]⁠ John Fitzpatrick is the brain behind Rugby Morning, serving rugby news everyday via email newsletters to rugby fans around the world. ⁠[email protected]⁠ ⁠http://www.rugbymorning.com Martin Pengelly is a Washington-based reporter and editor. His “The National Maul” Substack about rugby in the US. His first book, Brotherhood: When West Point Rugby Went To War, is published by Godine. https://thenationalmaul.substack.com/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Join us for an expert breakdown of the MLR Championship between the Chicago Hounds and California as we chat with rugby journalist Martin Pengelly and announcer Ben Holden. Subscribe to our channel for the latest US rugby analysis and interviews: [Link to Channel] In this episode, we preview the upcoming MLR final, discuss the evolution of American rugby club culture with Martin Pengelly, and get a behind-the-scenes look at broadcast preparation from Ben Holden. Don’t miss out on our analysis of the Chicago Hounds' historic season! Chapters: 00:00 Intro & Eagles Overseas Legacy 03:20 Martin Pengelly: The National Maul & Rugby Culture 13:13 Father's Day Special & Unfinished Memoir 15:35 MLR Championship: Chicago vs. California Outlook 17:37 Ben Holden: MLR Broadcasting & Talent 23:26 The Realities of Live Sports Broadcasting 29:28 Calling a Championship Match 37:25 Predictions & Final Thoughts #MLR #USARugby #ChicagoHounds #RugbyPodcast #TheNationalMaul #BenHolden #RugbyChampionship —————————————— Connect with US Rugby Happy Hour: Twitter: https://x.com/AmerRugbyRising Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/americanrugbyrising/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/AmericanRugbyRising/ Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@americanrugbyrising Tiktok: https://www.tiktok.com/@americanrugbyrising BlueSky: https://bsky.app/profile/americanrugbyrisin.bsky.social LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/3OjEHf8 🎧 Listen to this and previous episodes of US Rugby Happy Hour on Youtube and your favorite podcast player today! iHeart: bit.ly/3A43Tff Apple: bit.ly/3Uuj9u7 Spotify: bit.ly/3ZxjAa0 Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkYbnIvt-gI&t=2s Like, follow, and subscribe and please leave a comment!! Check out americanrugbyrising.com for the latest on your USA Eagles, schedules, news and more, and visit rugbymorning.com for the latest on ALL rugby! Hosts, Bill Baker and John Fitzpatrick are available for media opportunities and appearances. Contact information below. Bill Baker, an Emmy award winning editor and producer, has curated Eagles Overseas Rugby since 1996, providing updates and news stories about USA Eagles plying their trade around the world.  http://www.americanrugbyrising.com⁠ ⁠[email protected]⁠ John Fitzpatrick is the brain behind Rugby Morning, serving rugby news everyday via email newsletters to rugby fans around the world. ⁠[email protected]⁠ ⁠http://www.rugbymorning.com Martin Pengelly is a Washington-based reporter and editor. His “The National Maul” Substack about rugby in the US. His first book, Brotherhood: When West Point Rugby Went To War, is published by Godine. https://thenationalmaul.substack.com/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Join us for an exclusive, high-energy breakdown of the upcoming Major League Rugby Finals returning to Chicago this June! First, on this week's National Maul segment with Martin Pengelly, Martin looks back at least week's National Maul newsletter interview with Alex Magleby, a 2026 season review, and what does he have planned for this week? Possibly profiling USA Eagle, Dylan Audsley and his social media ventures with Culture RFC? We'll see! Then, we’re joined by our frequent guest, Mags, who gives us the inside scoop on the decision to bring the championship back to the Windy City, the electric atmosphere fans can expect, and the full slate of festivities—from the Navy Pier fan event to the Supporter Advisory Council’s inaugural meeting. We also kick off the episode with a standout intro jingle that you’re going to love as much as we do. Whether you're a die-hard MLR follower or a casual sports fan curious about the best rugby action in the U.S., this episode is packed with everything you need to know. We dive into the "Punt, Pass, Post, Push" competition, the exciting musical lineup featuring Flatfoot 56, and why this weekend is the ultimate Father’s Day experience. Don't miss out on our candid conversation about the state of the league, expansion plans, and why the 2026 season has been the most competitive one yet. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Get ready to rumble as the US Rugby Happy Hour kicks off with a retro flair, dropping a brand-new, 1980s TV-show-inspired introduction jingle that sets a high-energy tone for an jam-packed episode. Co-hosts Bill Baker and John Fitzpatrick sit down with veteran rugby journalist Martin Pengelly, author of The National Maul Substack. Pengelly lends his sharp perspective to the evolution of American rugby media, sharing elite-level stories from his 25-year career—including walking the streets of Manhattan with the All Blacks and chasing down answers from the game's most memorable loose cannons. The heat turns all the way up in the second half of the show as Bill and Fitzy dissect the massive, newly released 55+6 extended training roster for the USA Men's Eagles. With fewer than 500 days until the 2027 Rugby World Cup in Australia, the race is officially on to see which 33 players will secure a spot on the plane. From dominant Major League Rugby vets like Paul Mullen and Kaleb Geiger to electrifying overseas prospects like fullback Perry Mayo, the guys map out the position battles, tactical pairings, and the "brash, aggressive American edge" needed to shock the international stage this summer. Turn it up and tease your rugby appetite before the July test matches arrive! —————————————— Connect with US Rugby Happy Hour: Twitter: https://x.com/AmerRugbyRising Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/americanrugbyrising/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/AmericanRugbyRising/ Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@americanrugbyrising Tiktok: https://www.tiktok.com/@americanrugbyrising BlueSky: https://bsky.app/profile/americanrugbyrisin.bsky.social LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/3OjEHf8 🎧 Listen to this and previous episodes of US Rugby Happy Hour on Youtube and your favorite podcast player today! iHeart: bit.ly/3A43Tff Apple: bit.ly/3Uuj9u7 Spotify: bit.ly/3ZxjAa0 Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkYbnIvt-gI&t=2s Like, follow, and subscribe and please leave a comment!! Check out americanrugbyrising.com for the latest on your USA Eagles, schedules, news and more, and visit rugbymorning.com for the latest on ALL rugby! Hosts, Bill Baker and John Fitzpatrick are available for media opportunities and appearances. Contact information below. Bill Baker, an Emmy award winning editor and producer, has curated Eagles Overseas Rugby since 1996, providing updates and news stories about USA Eagles plying their trade around the world.  http://www.americanrugbyrising.com⁠ ⁠[email protected]⁠ John Fitzpatrick is the brain behind Rugby Morning, serving rugby news everyday via email newsletters to rugby fans around the world. ⁠[email protected]⁠ ⁠http://www.rugbymorning.com Martin Pengelly is a Washington-based reporter and editor. His “The National Maul” Substack about rugby in the US. His first book, Brotherhood: When West Point Rugby Went To War, is published by Godine. https://thenationalmaul.substack.com/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Join us for a unique "Happy Hour" as we explore the intersection of American rugby culture and the secrets of the sea. We kick things off with a custom introduction song that left our guest speechless, before diving into an engaging conversation with writer Martin Pengelly in our new segment, "The National Maul" about his "The National Maul" Substack, his passion for rugby writing, and his fascinating background covering American politics for The Guardian. In the second half of the show, we’re joined by Major League Rugby veteran and marine engineer Paul Mullen to talk about Old Glory DC's playoff rubn. We move from the rugby pitch to the coast to discuss his roots in the Aran Islands and his innovative work using seaweed as a powerful bio-stimulant for crops. Tune in for a blend of insightful commentary, sports anecdotes, and practical gardening wisdom! —————————————— Connect with US Rugby Happy Hour: Twitter: https://x.com/AmerRugbyRising Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/americanrugbyrising/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/AmericanRugbyRising/ Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@americanrugbyrising Tiktok: https://www.tiktok.com/@americanrugbyrising BlueSky: https://bsky.app/profile/americanrugbyrisin.bsky.social LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/3OjEHf8 Like, follow, and subscribe and please leave a comment!! Check out americanrugbyrising.com for the latest on your USA Eagles, schedules, news and more, and visit rugbymorning.com for the latest on ALL rugby! Hosts, Bill Baker and John Fitzpatrick are available for media opportunities and appearances. Contact information below. Bill Baker, an Emmy award winning editor and producer, has curated Eagles Overseas Rugby since 1996, providing updates and news stories about USA Eagles plying their trade around the world.  http://www.americanrugbyrising.com⁠ ⁠[email protected]⁠ John Fitzpatrick is the brain behind Rugby Morning, serving rugby news everyday via email newsletters to rugby fans around the world. ⁠[email protected]⁠ ⁠http://www.rugbymorning.com Martin Pengelly is a Washington-based reporter and editor. His “The National Maul” Substack about rugby in the US. His first book, Brotherhood: When West Point Rugby Went To War, is published by Godine. https://thenationalmaul.substack.com/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Get ready for a high-octane interview with USA Eagle #590 and Chicago Hounds fly-half Chris Hilsenbeck. We kick things off with a custom intro song—featuring a "boot made of steel"—that gets the man himself pumped for the pitch. Bill and Fitzy dive into Chris’s unique journey from being born in California to growing up in the rugby hotbed of Heidelberg, Germany, and eventually finding his way back to the U.S. to lead the Windy City’s charge in Major League Rugby. The Chicago Hounds are currently the talk of the league, sitting undefeated and 12 points clear of the competition. Chris discusses the "target on their backs," the importance of defensive growth, and the organization's laser-focus on reaching the MLR Finals—which just happen to be hosted at their home field this year. Will this be the year the New England Free Jacks' reign finally comes to an end? Tune in to find out how the Hounds plan to secure the shield. —————————————— Connect with US Rugby Happy Hour: Twitter: https://x.com/AmerRugbyRising Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/americanrugbyrising/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/AmericanRugbyRising/ Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@americanrugbyrising Tiktok: https://www.tiktok.com/@americanrugbyrising BlueSky: https://bsky.app/profile/americanrugbyrisin.bsky.social LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/3OjEHf8 🎧 Listen to this and previous episodes of US Rugby Happy Hour on Youtube and your favorite podcast player today! iHeart: bit.ly/3A43Tff Apple: bit.ly/3Uuj9u7 Spotify: bit.ly/3ZxjAa0 Youtube: https://bit.ly/3ZUs7oV Like, follow, and subscribe and please leave a comment!! Check out americanrugbyrising.com for the latest on your USA Eagles, schedules, news and more, and visit rugbymorning.com for the latest on ALL rugby! Hosts, Bill Baker and John Fitzpatrick are available for media opportunities and appearances. Contact information below. Bill Baker, an Emmy award winning editor and producer, has curated Eagles Overseas Rugby since 1996, providing updates and news stories about USA Eagles plying their trade around the world.  http://www.americanrugbyrising.com⁠ ⁠[email protected]⁠ John Fitzpatrick is the brain behind Rugby Morning, serving rugby news everyday via email newsletters to rugby fans around the world. ⁠[email protected]⁠ ⁠http://www.rugbymorning.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Get ready for the biggest weekend in American college rugby as hosts Bill Baker and John Fitzpatrick dive deep into the 16th annual Collegiate Rugby Championship. We are joined by National Collegiate Rugby’s Pat Clifton and Zach Lanning to break down a massive field of 144 teams competing across eight divisions in Washington, D.C.. From the qualification process to "dark horse" contenders in Division III, this episode is your essential guide to the brackets, the players to watch, and the storylines that will define the tournament. We also celebrate the 2026 Hall of Fame class, including CRC's very own Darian Lovelace, and discuss the "cascading brackets" that keep the action going for every team, win or lose. Stick around for a breakdown of the new fantasy rugby game and our friendly wagers on who takes home the hardware. Plus, don't miss our opening jingle, a "banger"! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices