Every animal is telling you something. The real question is whether you're paying attention. I sit down with animal behavior expert Hanne Grice to explore what our pets reveal about trust, stress, communication, and even ourselves. Drawing on nearly 20 years of experience, Hanne explains why behavior is never random, why outdated dominance theories continue to harm animals, and how curiosity leads to better relationships with both pets and people. We also discuss guide dogs, emotional regulation, grief, parenting with dogs, and the science behind building trust through predictability and choice. I believe you'll find this conversation valuable whether you share your life with animals or simply want to become a better leader, communicator, and observer of those around you Highlights: 05:47 – The biggest breakthrough in animal behavior starts with changing the human. 09:35 – A common belief about dog dominance is challenged by modern science. 20:34 – Jane Goodall's work transformed how we understand animal emotions and personalities. 31:02 – Hidden medical issues often explain behaviors owners mistake for disobedience. 45:14 – Giving animals more choice can reduce stress and strengthen trust. 58:21 – Remarkable stories show how animals have influenced history in unexpected ways. About the Guest: Hanne Grice is a UK Clinical Animal Behaviourist, Certified Trainer, and award-winning educator who specialises in the science of human–animal relationships. She founded Hanne Grice Pet Training and Behaviour in 2006 and has supported thousands of families across dogs, cats, and small companion animals. Her work centres on evidence informed welfare, behaviour change, and practical strategies that help people and their animals nurture stable, healthy relationships. Alongside clinical practice, Hanne lectures at the postgraduate level in applied animal behaviour, human–animal interactions, and the psychology that shapes how people understand and interact with their pets. She previously served on the Board of the UK’s Animal Behaviour and Training Council. When her tenure concluded in July 2025, she was appointed an Honorary Individual Member in recognition of her outstanding contribution to the charity’s mission to raise and protect professional standards. Hanne is known for making science accessible. Her “How Does…” series explores everyday behaviour across species, and her “Animals in History” films examine the remarkable roles animals have played across cultures and time. She is the author of Playing with Your Dog (2010), a practical guide to enriching the lives of companion animals through evidence-informed play. Her research includes studies on dog–owner relationships during pregnancy and early parenthood, as well as ongoing work on behaviour change techniques for animal professionals. She continues to develop tools that bring together behavioural science, practical welfare, and effective communication, helping owners and practitioners create environments where animals feel safe, understood, and able to thrive. Ways to connect with Hanne**:** Hanne Grice YouTube: Hanne Grice Pet Training & Behaviour - YouTube Facebook: Hanne Grice Pet Training and Behaviour Instagram: Hanne Grice on Instagram LinkedIn: Hanne Grice | LinkedIn TikTok: Hanne Grice (@hannegrice) | TikTok https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLOf6YEUpLhiktobqDFUSrjuXKBQUW_xyz\&si=T9593esdANzVVYoM https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLOf6YEUpLhik4U80OJWUMHd5JwbDNZbwd\&si=atOLyb_foY_7AVjs   https://learn.hannegrice.com/ https://shophannegrice.com/ https://amzn.to/4pxuzfv  About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT\&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children’s Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association’s 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset . Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes: Michael Hingson  00:03 One of the biggest things holding you back isn't what's in front of you, but rather what you believe. Welcome to Unstoppable Mindset, where inclusion, diversity, and the unexpected meet. I'm your host, Michael Hingson, speaker, author, and advocate for inclusion and possibilities. This podcast explores how the beliefs we carry shape the way we live, lead, and connect with others. Each week, I talk with people who challenge assumptions, face adversity head on, and show what's possible when we choose curiosity over fear. Together we focus on mindset, resilience, and the small shifts that lead to meaningful change. Let's get started. Hi everyone, I am Mike Hingson, or you can call me Michael Hingson, just to make sure you get the Hingson part right. I am the host of Unstoppable Mindset, and today we get to chat with Hanne Grice from over in the well, across the pond, shall we say. So it's later in the evening there, and she was just telling me that her children celebrate Christmas tomorrow because they also have another Christmas to celebrate on Thursday, so I might be jealous. It is being recorded by the way two days before Christmas in 2025 and we're looking forward to it. Hannah is an animal behavior, she's an expert in all of that. She's done a program called How Does, which I'm interested to learn more about. She is also founded other organizations dealing with training, I think, probably more humans than pets, but all about pet training and developing relationships. Just before we came on, we were talking about a couple of our kiddies, and I should tell you, Hanne, I had a guide dog, my second guide dog, Holland, who was a golden retriever, lived 15 years, so he lived a long time, and was actually three weeks from retirement when he collapsed, and I think had a stroke and a heart attack, and the vet said we could bring him back, but he wouldn't have a good quality of life, so, but we were only without a guide dog for three weeks, but anyway, with all that aside, Welcome to Unstoppable Mindset. We're glad you're here. Hanne Grice  02:34 Thank you so much for having me. It's an honor, and I'm sorry to hear about Holland. So, thank you for sharing that. Michael Hingson  02:42 Well, here's a wonderful puppy dog, and now we have Alamo, who will be 10 years old on the 14th of May, and he will have been a guide dog for me for eight years on the 24th of February, and that's especially interesting because the 24th of February is my birthday, so I regard Alamo as a wonderful birthday present, which is kind of cool. Speaker 1  03:17 That is cool. And how long, Michael, would you typically have a guide dog for when do they typically retire. Michael Hingson  03:24 Typically it's an average thing. It really is all a question of how the guide dog is doing, and so on, because it's a very stressful job, but it's also up to me to keep the stress as low as possible. But typically it's, it's six to eight years, and I expect Alamo to work and be around for quite a while, yet he's just doing really well and isn't showing much age, and I'm happy with that. And then Stitch is going to be 16 in January, so we guess we rescued her back in 2015 and and so she's she's been around, and the two get along pretty well together. They don't chase each other or anything like that, but, but they do communicate, and they talk, and they touch noses, and all that. And every so often, Stitch steals Alamos bed, and poor Alamo doesn't know what to do about it, because Stitch has claws, and he knows it. So he just goes and finds another place to collapse until she leaves. Speaker 1  04:20 Yeah, cats and dogs, they find a way, but two of the species that I work very closely with, so yeah, and a testament to the quality and type of relationship that you have with them, that they're aging so well. So that's great to hear. Michael Hingson  04:36 One of the things that I insist on when I'm having to get a new guide dog, which I don't anticipate doing for a long time yet, but one of the things that I insist is that any guide dog I get has to have been raised around cats and get along with cats. I've seen a couple of guide dogs that are cat haters, and I would never want that kind of thing, especially when it's such an. Easy distraction when that happens. Speaker 1  05:02 Yeah, yeah, I can't imagine what it'd be like if suddenly you're finding yourself careering down the street, right? My dog was chasing the neighbor's cat, not good, not good for any of the animals or human involved. So, yeah, Michael Hingson  05:15 my fourth guide dog, Lynn, loved to chase rabbits, now not out of any kind of meanness or anything like that. She just wanted friends, and she loved to visit my first guide dog, Squire, when we were in Boy Scouts, and went to a camp one on a camping trip one weekend. Actually, caught a road runner, and we discovered that the road runner had a broken leg, but we fixed it, and the road runner took off, but again he just wanted to talk. He never hated any animal, and you know, none of my guide dogs have ever done anything, except they've never known a stranger. Everyone is a friend to them, people in and animals, which is great, Speaker 1  05:58 and that's what I love about my job, Michael, because I am, and you said at the start I'm working with animals, but predominantly it's the humans that engage my services, it's the humans that are looking for help and support with their animals, and so when any of my students or young and aspiring clinical behaviorists or trainers say to me, "Oh, I want to do this job because I love animals. I don't like people. I always say, well, you're going to be in the wrong job. You have to like humans as well, because they're the ones that really you're working with to help change their animals' behavior, and they pay the bills. Michael Hingson  06:36 Well, since you do work a lot with training animals and so on. Have you had any success at training politicians? I mean, there's an animal for you. Speaker 1  06:44 I have had all sorts of clients on my books, from the rich and famous to sportsmen and politicians, so I can't disclose names. However, what I will say is I have successfully used my effective consulting skills on humans to reframe, because actually, if we think about when they engage my services, usually it's because there's a fractured pet owner relationship. For example, you might have a dog that's lunging at other dogs, or you know, the cat that's attacking another cat in the household, and by the time they come to me, they're really frustrated. They're labeling their animals as naughty, and actually, my role is to take an investigative approach, look at all the evidence, and help the clients understand, you know, why the animals are doing what they're doing, what's the function, and usually we start to see that human mindset shift when they have that understanding, and that's incredibly powerful, because you know once we get that human understanding, the behavior change in animals then follows, so it really does begin with the insight in the humans. Michael Hingson  08:04 Really good point. I've seen a lot of people interacting with guide dogs, and some of them get very nervous, especially when they get lost or something isn't going exactly the way they want. When the reality is that nervousness translates to the dog, and the fact is that the dog gets stressed out because their person is stressed out, and I think there's a lot of truth to what the dog whisperer, Caesar Milano, says, is that it's that the dogs are looking for a pack leader, they want the humans to do it, but when some of these people get so nervous, they stress out the dogs, and that has a significant effect on the lifespan. A guiding is is very stressful, and the dogs take it very seriously and want to do a good job, and they want to know that they're doing a good job, and if you get stressed, Michael Hingson  08:59 it's a problem. Speaker 1  09:00 Absolutely, what I would say is it's more scientific in the sense that when we look at the evidence out there in terms of how our animals influence us and vice versa, it tends to be much more subtle. Michael Hingson  09:18 Yeah, Speaker 1  09:19 for example, animals do act as a stress buffering mechanism, for example, if we're feeling worried about something or unsettled, if we see our dog lying, you know, calmly by our feet, we're going to pick up on those cues, and that will help us settle, and there's a good amount of evidence, as you'll be aware, Michael, of, you know, how animals can lower our heart rates, our breathing rates, they can reduce our stress hormone levels, but what's interesting is that doesn't happen in isolation, and over time humans and their animals do fall into these shared rhythms, like you're talking about. So essentially, we are synchronizing things like our routine, our movement. Our emotional states, and so that synchrony does work both ways, and when to your point, as our stress levels rise or our routines become unstable, absolutely our animals will often reflect that, and it's not about leadership at all, it's actually about emotional, our emotional regulation, or inability to regulate that, exactly Michael Hingson  10:23 right, Speaker 1  10:24 or have stable routines, and you know, certainly we saw the impact animals had for us during the pandemic, you know, lots of people lost that social contact, they lost their structure, and so their animals became anchors for routine and emotional stability, so this also helps explain why researchers, as well as our lived experiences, show that attachment to our pets can rival or even exceed some of those that we form with people, and that also explains why when we look at grief, when we lose a pet, and you talked about your gorgeous Holland, and you know your previous guide dogs, you know that that loss of a pet can be as intense as you know when we lose a close friend and a partner. So, back to what you were saying, yes, there's lots of evidence to show heart variability synchronizes, you know, cortisol blood cortisol levels will synchronize, you know, but it's, it's more than sort of some of the popular culture would have us believe in terms of alpha and leader, and I think if there's one thing I could burst a bubble on, it would be around that notion about that the dog is trying to dominate us or take control, and the reason being is because it all comes down to some outdated and flawed research from the 1940s that was then attempted to replicate in the 70s, and as I said, the research design was deeply flawed. It was mixing captive balls from different groups together, so, of course, there's going to be fighting, and so I guess for anyone listening, I would like them to just be really aware that dominance isn't a personality trait, it simply describes a relationship between individuals in a specific context, so when your dog is sat next to you at home, they're not plotting to take over the household, they're not like, you know, Dr. Evil in Austin Powers, they're not trying to take over the world, they're when we see the behaviors like the chasing after the road runner, or the lead pulling after the neighbor's cat, or the growling when they're being touched for grooming, or when they're guarding objects, those behaviors are usually linked to fear or frustration, learning history, even pain, and so when we look through things with a dominance lens, that alpha lens, it attempts to explain animal behavior without actually helping the animal. Do you know what I mean? So, yeah, so when we fish shift, I should say our focus to understanding what's actually driving that behavior, how is that environment, or how's the handling from that individual contributing or compounding the issues that people are coming to me to get help with? You know, what does the animal need to learn instead? Then we get actually better welfare outcomes and much more reliable behavior change done in a science-led, ethical, humane way. Michael Hingson  13:45 Well, I was talking about Squire chasing the Roadrunner. It is my, and it's always been my opinion that Squire was the first one to see that that that bird was injured, and I am absolutely certain that he would never have been able to catch the road runner if that road runner had been able to go at full speed, but the, but the bird had a broken leg, and we fixed it, you know, we taped it, we split it, and then the bird ran away, and Squire didn't, didn't follow it, but I think that there was a sense, and I'm still convinced to this day that that was the case, and I don't want my dogs to be afraid. My previous guide dog to Alamo, actually not even Africa, but going back to Roselle, who was with me in the World Trade Center, Roselle was afraid of thunder. Now she didn't start out being afraid of thunder, but we really didn't know how to deal with it, probably correctly, and she developed this phobia, so that she could even sense when a storm was coming before it got to us, and we worked to calm her down as much as we could, but she was our early warning system for. Storms, and you know, but that was also one of the reasons that I knew on september 11 that we were going, you know, that we didn't have to just rush out of the office like crazy people, because she wasn't reacting after the building was struck, she wasn't reacting with any kind of fear evidence at Speaker 2  15:24 all. Michael Hingson  15:24 Mostly she was yawning and going, "Who woke me up? You know, and, and the bottom line is that she didn't sense anything, and I wasn't smelling any smoke, and I knew that whatever was going on wasn't such an imminent emergency that we couldn't try to evacuate in an orderly way, and, and that's what happened, but I, you know, I have a question for you. How did all this start for you? So, tell us a little bit about the early Hanne growing up, and how did you get into the whole idea of dealing with animals and starting this whole process? Speaker 1  15:56 Well, partly stories like yours, fascinating, absolutely fascinating. Um, so as a child I, there's a big age gap between my brother and my sister and I. So I was the youngest, and I was always fascinated with human animal interactions anyway, but because I think my siblings, where they were so much older, my animals were really my constant companions, and so that's where the deep love of a range of species started, and I was very lucky in that I think because there was such an age gap and my brother and sister weren't around, my parents were sort of, yeah, you can have another rabbit, you can have a stick insect, and it was kind of just keep it quiet, and then I'd be busy with my animals, and then as I sort of grew up, became more aware, as you do, into your sort of preteens and then teens, was really interested in watching how people behaved around their pets, which comes back to some of the stuff you were saying earlier, doesn't it, and I became really curious as to why someone could describe themselves as an animal lover, yet use methods or make choices that clearly compromised the animal's welfare, so that really fascinated me, and I can't pinpoint it to a single defining moment, but certainly I wasn't fortunate to, unlike my students nowadays, because I also lecture, they can do what I do as a degree. When I was growing up, it was vet or very nursing, so it took a while before I could viably get onto the degrees and masters to specialize, but I think for me what continues to motivate, and I'll be 20 years in practice in 2026 is the, the impact, positive impact my role can have on the human animal relationship, in the sense that you know they can, they can come to me, and they're at the brink of despair, the clients, because they've maybe looked at the internet, they've asked well-meaning friends, they may have gone to other professionals, and nothing seems to be working. And actually, you know, it takes further exploration. I can detect stuff that might not be picked up before, because I'm taking like a detective approach, looking at medical history, looking at the owner reporting, asking questions, observing the animal, and all of that information can then lead me to determine, okay, what's going on, and how we approach it, and so when done robustly and systematically that shift in the relationship starts to improve, because they better understand one another, and when an animal starts to go, "Hey, you're listening to me, you're getting what I mean when I kind of do x, y, or z in terms of behavior. That's when the shift happens, and for me, the magic and what really motivates me doing this job day in day out is improving the human animal relationship. Michael Hingson  19:06 Was there any defining moment that caused you to say, yeah, this is exactly what I want to do with the rest of my life, or was it just sort of a gradual thing? Speaker 1  19:17 Oh golly, I mean that for me it's it's a bit like, you know, if you ask something, somebody like an artist to do a painting, at the end of it, there's the finished picture, and for me, I liken it, it's like lots of little building blocks to get to that end picture. For me, the magic really is, is seeing a fractured relationship repair and be better than it was, and so there's been many, many moments over 20 years in my career where that's happened, and those glimmers, as I call them, of what I celebrate, and it's very easy for us all, isn't it, to have those negative ninny moments, those imposter sounds. Syndrome moments, and I hold on to all the reviews, or the little texts that I get when my clients go, "Hey, I walked past another dog, and my dog kept his call, you know, yay, you know, they're the things that drive me and motivate me to keep going, because some of the cases I work with are really heavy, you know, take quite a lot of emotional toll, and I guess that's the stuff that you know the every person doesn't see with clinical behaviorists, is that we do lay in bed at night worrying about other people and their animals. Michael Hingson  20:30 Yeah, I know what you're saying. Coincidentally, just this morning I was reading an article about people we lost in 2025 and of course, one of the people mentioned one of the trailblazers, as the New York Times put it, was Jane Goodall. Have did you ever meet her? Have you had any interactions with her? Because one of the things that they talked about was that she took a completely different approach to interacting with chimpanzees and truly developed a personal relationship. She named them, and she became accepted by them. That really was.. I don't want to say amazing, because I don't think that kind of thing is amazing, but that really just told me how much she obviously understood. Did you ever meet her, or get to deal with her at all? Speaker 1  21:20 I really wish that would have been amazing. Jane Goodall is one of the most inspiring people, you know, in my opinion, and I'm really glad you mentioned her, Michael, because she, her work really paved the way for us to understand back in the 70s, really, that animals have personalities. Michael Hingson  21:45 Yeah, Speaker 1  21:46 because it was, it was months and years of taking things really slowly, being really unintrusive, observing. It took many years for her to be accepted around the truth, because they can be really dangerous animals, and so, and that was a really good example, you know. I was saying earlier about taking things slowly and systematically, and she recognized that chimpanzees were individuals, they had different emotions, just like us, they had different personality types that didn't really change as they grew, and it was through her work, particularly with one called David Graybeard, that led to her sort of gaining more public awareness, and she had her critics, you know, at the time they thought she, oh Michael Hingson  22:35 sure, Speaker 1  22:36 she was a bit like Diane Posse, they thought she was some sort of crazy lady who was terribly anthropomorphic, and that wasn't the case at all. No, so you know it's it's real leaders in, in the field, like Jane Goodall and the Diane Fosses, that that has paved the way for the likes of me to then go, yes, our animals have emotions. It wasn't, you know, Darwin led the way in the 1800s with the first idea of this, but you know it's not that long ago that really we thought animals were just unthinking, you know, blobs that you know were incapable of feeling pain, and sadly even today in social media we see some awful advice given out to cat or dog owners about how you deal with problems in order to have a quick fix, you know, and that's not the case at all. So, yeah, I'm really happy you brought her up, because, yeah, amazing lady. Michael Hingson  23:35 Well, I don't remember exactly when it occurred, it was sometime when I was 10 or 11, sometime in the very early 60s. She came and lectured in the area where I grew up, in the Antelope Valley, and my parents and I did go to see her. I don't remember anything about the lecture, but it was.. I know it was.. it was interesting, and I wish I could remember more of it, but that was the only time that we were ever close to her, but it was, it was fascinating, and of course, knowing about her life and the things that she did, I absolutely understand and agree with you. When I worked, which I did for Guide Dogs for the Blind for six and a half years, we lived in Northern California, about seven miles from Guide Dogs for the Blind, and literally just down the street from the Marin Humane Society, which is one of the more famous and well-known organizations of its type in the United States, and talking to some of their people, they, they said, How so often it's not really training the animals that is what we're dealing with here, it's training the humans, and it is because it's the humans that really need to get a clue and understand that these animals have as much of a personality and as much knowledge to share. As we do, and are born with more instincts, and we could learn to listen to our own instincts, if we would observe these dogs a whole lot more, and these animals a whole lot more than we do. Now, I don't know about cats, but you know that's another story. Speaker 1  25:13 Yeah, yeah, we often like to label. Yeah, that's fascinating. That's super cool that you got to see her in the 60s, even if you can't remember what she said, that's really impressive. I remember Michael Hingson  25:28 doing it, but that was about that's about it, actually. Speaker 2  25:32 Yeah, wow, that's Michael Hingson  25:33 kind of fun. Yeah, if Speaker 3  25:38 you enjoy Unstoppable Mindset and would like to help us continue bringing these conversations to you each week. We've created a way for you to support the show. Your contribution helps us cover production costs and continue sharing stories, insights, and ideas that inspire people to live with purpose and possibility. If supporting the podcast feels right for you. You'll find the link in the show notes. Thank you for being part of the Unstoppable Mindset community, Michael Hingson  26:11 but you know the fact is that animals really can contribute a whole lot more to our lives than we think, and we just need to be the ones to take the initiative and develop the relationships. I talk to people all the time about dogs, and I say that dogs, and I firmly believe, do love unconditionally, unless there's some horrible thing that happened to them that that affects their, their views, but dogs love unconditionally, but they don't trust unconditionally. The difference, though, between dogs and people is that dogs are more open to trust, and they want to develop that trusting relationship. And if we would learn to do that as well, it would be such a wonderful thing. Now it can be that you will like with human to human trust, you might find that somebody doesn't earn your trust. That's okay. Then you move on, but we need to learn to be more open to trust than we than we tend to be. Speaker 1  27:14 Yeah, absolutely. Really well said. And you know, in terms of how do we develop secure, healthy bonds between us and our animals. It's built on several things, and that includes predictability, responsiveness, and emotional safety. That's your trust bed, isn't it? And so one of the clearest findings that we have from attachment research is that animals cope better when they can predict how their humans going to respond. Michael Hingson  27:46 Yes, Speaker 1  27:47 and when their attempts at communication are noticed and make sense to the animals. So, for example, in everyday life, you know, this might look like your dog pausing or turning their head when we're reaching out to stroke them, or it might be the cat choosing to leave a stroke as you're attempting to reach out to their cheek, and how we recognize this as the human would be to go, "Oh, okay, I'm going to ease off, because clearly you know you're turning your head, you're lip licking, that's telling me you'd rather I stop trying to reach out to pet your head or the cat walking way, I'm going to allow you to do that pussy cat rather than follow you and try and pick you up and give you a cuddle. So when handlers respond in those ways to their animals responses, the animals learn very quickly, hey, my communication works, and then that understanding strengthens the animal owner relationship, and another thing that plays into that, which is what I'm always talking to clients about, is processing time plays an important role in building healthy, secure relations, because often animals need much longer to take in information or decide how to respond, particularly if they're feeling emotionally aroused, unsafe, or trying to learn something new. And when we rush them, and a real good example of this is some my clients will ask the dog to sit, and if the dog doesn't do it within a split second, they're going sit, sit, they're repeating the cue over and over again, and that unintentionally puts pressure rather than giving clarity to the dog, and it can then often lead to confusion and even frustration, and that's going to show up behaviorally, so for example, we may end up with the dog, then jumping up at the owner or grabbing the lead and ragging it. So, I always say, look, if we slow down, if we allow space for the animal to process what we're asking them to do, if we respond calmly and consistently to their subtle cues that they communicate through body language. And so on, animals begin to expect safety rather than threat from us, and that expectation therefore reduces things like stress. It supports learning, it makes behavior much more resilient, because the relationship itself is secure, and these are the same principles that sit at the heart of child-parent attachment, where there's predictability, there's responsive caregiving, and that helps the child feel safe enough to explore and learn. Michael Hingson  30:32 It's also just as relevant for any kind of teaming relationship, even within companies, and the true leaders of companies who catch on to these kinds of things and learn how to communicate and process to determine whether somebody is truly understanding what they're communicating or not is an extremely important thing, because the fact of the matter is none of this is overly magical, whether it is between human and animal or human and human, but we do need to recognize the values and what it really is is meaning when, for example, we don't react to someone not doing instantly what we say, which isn't the way to do it. Speaker 1  31:17 Absolutely, yeah, really good example using principles that we see in leadership, HR, you know, and that's why when they're recruiting, they spend so much time typically looking at personality types, how that's going to match with the team, you know, so yeah, really good point there, Michael, about leadership and the importance of that people centric approach, which I think, with you know, sadly, you know, not to go too political, we're seeing real crazy times Speaker 2  31:47 at the moment, Speaker 1  31:48 and a lack of true leadership with that empathetic, human-centric approach, whatever side of the political spectrum you sit on. Michael Hingson  31:57 Yeah, and it is, it's all over. I hope something will come and break that pattern and get people to recognize what really should work and what really does work well in your case, even when you walk into a home, what is it that you observe, or how do you determine how an animal feels for the first time when you come in and see them before you really even get a chance to talk with their people. Speaker 1  32:25 Yeah, that's a good question. Animals, you were talking about Brazil and thunder, and she pick up on, you know, atmospheric changes. We know that biometric changes are picked off on by many, many non-human animals, so because they communicate using a combination of sensory information, be it sense, sound, visual signaling. I can walk into a client's house and immediately pick up on something. So, I'll give you some real examples. I recently had a case with Dusty Gorgeous Cocker Spaniel, and I was called in because she had developed severe resource guarding, so she'd get really growly and snappy, and sometimes bite the owner when she'd taken something of theirs, and they were trying to take it off them. As soon as I walked into Dusty's home, I could smell her, I could smell her ears, and that led me to suspect straight away there's some sort of likely infection going on here, and so working collaboratively with the vet, as clinical animal behaviorists do, that was confirmed, and the level of pain she'd been experiencing turned out to be a significant, significant contributory factor in her case for guarding, because guarding of the items provided some form of emotional regulation, whereas you know from an outsider's perspective she might have just been labeled naughty and disobedient, which isn't the case at all. Another example is I'm always watching how an animal moves, or how the owner interacts with them. How the animal, therefore, responds in return. And I touched on, you know, predictability a moment ago. And many stress signs that our animals will give us are really subtle and often misinterpreted. So let's take zoomies, you know, when the dog goes crazy around the lounge, and they may be jumping all over the sofas, etc. or humping the visitor, you know, the leg when the person comes in. Frequently, that's labeled as over excitement, or even dominance. When in reality, these are really often indicators of stress or discomfort, and small details also matter, so for example, the holding of breath or an increased blink rate, turning away from an outstretched hand. You know, these are really kind of brief moments that can be missed, and yet they tell us a huge amount of information. About how that animal was feeling about that interaction at that moment in time, and more recently I had a couple of cats, different cat cases, but urinating around the home, you know, up toasters on beds and sofas and things like that, and when, because I work with clients all around the world, as well as the UK, I can't always physically be there in person, so I'm reviewing the footage, and they managed to capture video of the cats moving around their environment, and then also urinating in their litter tray, and straight away I could spot the position of the whiskers, the eye shape, the ear position, the tension in the muzzle, the posture, and when they're moving around, and these were consistently scoring high on something called the cat groom miss scale, and that's a validated pain assessment Michael Hingson  35:54 tool. Speaker 1  35:54 So all of that information provided further investigation for the bet, and again, medical conditions are identified, and clearly you've got learning occurring anyway. So, there's always the behavior modification side, but these are just with dusty in the cat examples showing how there's often some other stuff like medical bits and bobs that are compounding the issues as well. Often I might be in a situation where you know the dog is belching or they're gnawing at their paws or their franks. Now that in itself can indicate perhaps gustatory issues or skin problems, but also context is critical because that's if that's happening when I'm there it could also be a stress sign, yeah, because an unfamiliar person, me, is present, so I'm looking at patterns, and does that happen when visitors aren't there, and and so on, and so on. So I come back to what I said earlier, really, it's like a detective, you're looking at all the evidence and piecing that together, and that then helps us understand what function is that undesirable behavior serving, whether that's the cat, you know, urinating against the toaster, or the rabbit scratching or biting the human. Michael Hingson  37:14 Well, so I've mentioned Roselle, one of the things that I was told when I first met Roselle, was she likes to steal socks, and, and I found that to be true. She loved to steal them and hide them, and that was it. She never chewed them up, but it, it really was a game, and we, we found socks in very strange places, and she actually, a couple times, stole my wife's slippers, but again, she stole them, and she hid them, and it was, she, she was very proud of herself. She thought it was a fun game, and you know, we never reacted negatively to it, because clearly it wasn't a bad thing. She didn't ever chew them up, so we knew it wasn't a bad thing, and we just accepted it as a game. Speaker 1  38:06 Yeah, yeah, and you know, partly if you think about, you know, her breed and species, partly that could be cashing, you know, partly it's fulfilling an entertainment function, as you said, a game, so yeah, and that will come down to her learning history before she came to you, and so on. So, yeah, really lovely example. She sounds like a complete poppet. Oh, Michael Hingson  38:28 I've always described her as a pixie by any standard, but, but yeah, she was, she was a wonderful dog, and the bottom line was it was also how we reacted to her, because if we had started to react in a negative way, that would have introduced stress, and that wouldn't have been a good thing either. Speaker 1  38:50 Yeah, absolutely. And you know, your story is is remarkable, and you talked about her and fireworks, yet she was so steady on that day, so I wonder, yeah, and I was just wondering, Michael, if, if I can ask you, you know, what do you think helped Friselle remain so steady in those conditions where many humans were being overwhelmed, understandably, on that day in 911 Michael Hingson  39:19 Well, I, I'm sure this won't totally surprise you, but I spent a lot of time before september 11 learning all I could about the World Trade Center, including what to do in the case of an emergency, and so I think that probably the most significant thing was probably Roselle was was looking at me and how I reacted and recognizing the fact that we do work and did work well as a team, so I wasn't panicking, and that helped her focus as well. Speaker 1  39:55 Yeah, and you know that's a really good example where you talked about. Up getting to know the environment, and kind of practicing, you know, going through those drills of what to do in an emergency, because I'm always saying to clients, repetition, consistency is the mother of success, you know. So, my goodness, did that pay off dividends, and you keeping your cool head, and both of you helping each other, amazing. Michael Hingson  40:21 Yeah, you've spent a lot of time studying kind of the transitions that that people go through, parenthood, children, pregnancy, and so on. How do dogs react to that? What are.. what are you.. what do you observe, or.. and what would you advise about that? Speaker 1  40:41 It's really interesting, Michael, because actually there's very little research out there in terms of what happens when a new baby arrives, you know, what happens to the family dog, and that's why I've explored it, and what stood out with my research, which looked at expectant parents and the other group with the postpartum parents, is that once baby arrives, and this won't be a surprise to anyone with children, but you know parents are spending understandably all their time focused on the baby, so what immediately happens is there's less time interacting with dogs, and so the biggest drop tends to be in the quality and type of interactions that are occurring, for example, walking durations, walking frequency, and also play, and the ones that stay in terms of the interactions that remain the same are the low effort ones, the quick ones, which is like stroking the dog or giving them a treat, and also my research found that many parents describe having huge levels of guilt once the baby arrived, because you know they are aware that now their dog, which may have been their fur baby, you know, the kind of surrogate child before the real one arrived, now was sort of come down a peg or two, and also what came out of my research is there's often because new parents are knackered, let's be honest, broken sleep is that they can easily become frustrated and sometimes the dog becomes the one that the frustration is directed at, and then layered on to that, we also have physiological stress synchrony. We were talking about synchrony between ourselves and our dogs, and an example is that research has found that when a baby cries, our blood cortisol level rises in the parents, but it also rises in the family dogs. Blood cortisol levels also rise. So, what that shows is, oh my goodness, you know, there's a significant impact on the new baby that has on the dog's day-to-day life, and it might not be obvious, because the dog may just kind of plod to the bed and rest, but there's all this other stuff going on that might not be obvious. So, the key takeaway from my research is that, you know, if you're having a baby and you have a dog, you know absolutely baby prep your dog for that change that's going to come, you know, especially if your dog has any problem behaviors, you know, be it pulling on the lead, they don't like visitors, you know, build support systems, so in less qualified humane, ethical trainers and behaviorists, dog walkers, so we've got some sort of routine, or in less family support or friends to help out, so there's some predictability, there's some quality one to one time for the dog once baby comes, and all of that, along with really good management of the home environment through dog ate safe zones, etc. for the dog and the baby, that's going to protect the pet's welfare, but it's also going to reduce the risk of behavior problems escalating. Michael Hingson  44:05 The other kind of thing that I can imagine will happen, hopefully more than not, is that the dog will bond or work to develop a bond with the new baby in the family. Speaker 1  44:18 Absolutely, and that's one of the most important things about baby prepping is that if we create some sort of understanding. Okay, I'm being exposed, let's say gently to baby sounds whilst I'm licking on this long-lasting chew, and this is quite nice, hearing this baby cry, you know. This recording, or I have, I joke, I have like a lending library with fake babies, you know, and my clients may think I'm mad to start, and very quickly they're realizing actually it's really good to train my dog to go and station on their mat while I'm carrying a baby or pretending to change the nappy on this fake baby, and the dog's learning I can, I can go to my mat and sit and settle while you know my own is doing this. Yes, and you know, so if we create that sort of learning, it's, it's not then such a shock to the dog, and I even get my clients practicing walking with a pram and the dog, because the dog's got to learn to walk nicely with the pram, you know, and inevitably, you know, the owners are accidentally running over the dog's paws to start, or just simple things, like, oh my gosh, I hadn't even thought about how do I get out the house with the baby, the dog, and the pram. So, sometimes just, just practicing, like you said, about getting to know the environment at the Twin Towers, it's really important to practice these things for real world, Michael Hingson  45:36 and the reality is, even a dog with a big long tongue isn't going to drown a baby, Speaker 1  45:42 of course. You know, and we know, and we absolutely know that those little ones that grow up with animals, particularly dogs, have really strong guts, micro, you know, flora, and so it's, it's helpful, you know, if they're sort of around the animals. So clearly we just got to be sensible in terms of managing the interactions, but absolutely I'm a huge fan of nurturing those dog baby buns, and do you know what one of the best things is when the baby throws some of that food onto the floor from the highchair when they're weeding, that's that's a sure far way for that dog to learn to love that baby, Michael Hingson  46:20 yeah, you know, there's nothing wrong with a little bribe every so often. Speaker 1  46:24 Pennies from heaven, I call it. Michael Hingson  46:27 That's right. What is the one behavior that you wish that people would just get rid of and not not have anymore? Speaker 1  46:37 Well, I talked about earlier in terms of myth busting and the busting, the myth about our dogs wanting to take over the world, and us needing to be sort of leaders, and that's not the case at all. I think, for me, it's the importance about agency and understanding what do we, what do we mean by giving our animals agency, so for example, you know, if our animal has some sort of influence over what happens to them, rather than just being passive receivers of what we're telling them what to do, if we give them choice, behavioral science and lived experience shows that absolutely that reduces uncertainty, and we know that uncertainty is a major driver of stress, so if we look at zoological settings, there's a Copenhagen Zoo, for example, give their guinea pigs choice whether to be petted or not, and how they do that is they bring out a carrier and the guinea pigs know that if they hop in the carrot carrier, it means they're going to go and see the kids, sit on the kids' laps, and they'll be petted, and so you'll have guinea pigs that rush into the carrier, and then you've got other guinea pigs who go, "Heck, not today, and those ones that choose not to go in the carrier are simply not handled, and then I've got peers of mine who work with dolphins, and they will show the dolphin picture of two of the trainers, and they'll let the dolphin decide who do they want to work with in that session. So that's an example of giving a dog adult dolphin and guinea pigs agency. Another one is in the states, so in the Smithsonian National Zoo and Toledo Zoo, they've specifically designed exhibits where orangutans can, by choice, spray the visitors with water. So, basically, the orangutans push a button, and that button causes a shower to go all over the visitors on the other side of the enclosure, so that acts as a form of enrichment, and it also provides a really neat way for the visitors to feel like they're directly connecting with the animals, so in all of those examples stress-related behaviors actually drop because the animals have choice, and so if we apply that principle to our pets at home, you know, agency would look like allowing the family dog to choose which way to walk occasionally, or allowing them the time to stop and sniff, or offering choice between resting places, or letting our cat decide when they want the interaction to end, or I don't know, offering up a choice of different toys or different food stuffs, and seeing which way does your pet go, you know, what do they find motivating, which toy or which food stuff in that moment in time do they want, so these small choices tell animals that they have some sort of control over their environment, and so why that's so important, and why I'd love everyone to be aware of that, is behaviorally this really matters, because when animals are feeling sort of overridden or trapped, Michael Hingson  49:59 yeah. Speaker 1  50:00 They're much more likely to rely on coping strategies that include avoidance or shutdown or even escalating behaviors like grounding and biting, and conversely, when they experience agency, their learning improves, their emotional regulation becomes easier, and their behavior becomes more stable, so agency isn't about letting our animals run the household. It means it means we as humans are deliberately designing interactions so that the animals feel safe and they have appropriate choices, and that balance supports welfare and leads to much more reliable behavior change over time. Michael Hingson  50:43 I think that all too often we are the greatest contributors to stress in our pets' environments, like dogs, and so on. And I know one of the things that is emphasized when we get new guide dogs is guiding itself is extremely stressful. The dogs have been brought up to respect the job, to like to do the job, and they're absolutely committed to doing it as well as they can. Now, to keep that attitude up is our job, and one of the things that I've learned over the years, you know, people will come up, "Well, I want to pet your dog, and my response is, "No, don't pet the dog. Now, if there's time, however, I will stop, and I'll take the harness off and say, "Now you can pet the dog, because the harness is the indicator that the dog is working, but dogs need to relax too, and so I know Alamo, especially, just loves it when the harness comes off, and he'd love to cheat more and visit with people, even when the harness is on, but he does understand the difference, and so I do work to try to make sure that when people want to pet the dog, if I have any time at all, I will stop and I'll take the harness off and say, "Now you can pet the dog. You need to understand why we're doing this, and that gives me the opportunity to explain it. Now, the only difference, the only time that's there's an exception to that, is if a child comes up and wants to pet the dog. I will always stop and take the harness off, because it doesn't matter. I want kids to grow up being comfortable around these dogs, and sometimes the parents will go, "Oh, that dog might bite, and all that, and I'll say, "No, the dog won't, and I'll always take the harness off for children. I may not always have the time to do it for adults, but I'll take the time for kids, because I want them to really understand that these dogs are not mean, and that they have a job to do, and so it gives me the opportunity to talk about that. Speaker 1  52:52 Yeah, that's great that you are promoting those fantastic child dog interactions, and you know what you're talking about is exactly what we've been discussing, in terms of that predictability, that consistency. You know, when the harness is off, you know that that gives the dog a clear signal. So, that's fantastic. Michael Hingson  53:13 Yeah, that's also part of it, that they know that when the harness is on, time to work, at least you're supposed to be serious anyway, no. Now, what? What's one thing that you wish dog owners would understand about cats and small animals that they tend not to pay attention to? Speaker 1  53:31 Yeah, you made me smile earlier, Michael, when you mentioned cats, because I was thinking about this. So, I guess you know, often cats and small animals are characterized as independent or aloof. Yeah, when in fact their communication styles are just maybe less obvious than the dog that's wackling the body, and you know, the tail, etc. And you know, looking really happy when the owner returns home, whereas the cat may sort of slink past, and we think, oh, okay, they're not that fast, but you know, their behavior is shaped by very different evolutionary pressures, and that's particularly around safety and conflict avoidance. So, when cats, for example, you know, act aloof or appear distant, it's much more about de-escalation, so research into feline social behavior shows that cats rely heavily on subtle signals like slow being blinking or head turns or ear position, choosing elevated resting spots to manage sort of social distance and reduce tension, and those behaviors are affiliative or calming, yet they're often missed by our ourselves or misinterpreted, and again, what seems like they're independent or aloof or distant is in reality them simply working hard to regulate proximity in ways that feel safe to them and. So you know, never feel offended if your cat moves away from you in the sofa to perch on a higher spot, because they're just managing their own comfort and control, and similarly, with rabbits or guinea pigs, they're a prey species, so their behavior is organized again differently, and they're neurologically wired to prioritize things like visibility or escape routes or control of space, so research consistently shows that when prey animals feel exposed or they're unable to run away, obviously stress responses are going to escalate quickly, and what people will therefore label as a rabbit, skittish, for example, is in fact a really logical response to feeling unsafe. Michael Hingson  55:47 Yeah, Speaker 1  55:47 so when we, when we stop looking at behavior through our human lens, which is what Jane Goodall and others have, you know, tried to help people understand, when we stop looking at it through human lens and consider what safety looks like for the animal. You know, welfare improves, owner animal relationships tend to strengthen. Michael Hingson  56:10 I don't know how Stitch figures out how to deal with a blind person, because all that link, blinking, and all that goes way over my head, of course. But even so, she's obviously figured it out, because we do have a good relationship, and she, as I've explained earlier, comes and yells at me when she wants to eat, and she'll come up and rub against me, and so on, but I think that overall she's figured out enough that, well, maybe he's a little bit different than some of the people I'm used to, so we figure it out, and we make it work, Speaker 1  56:42 absolutely. And do you know what cats are very clever in that, over the 1000s upon 1000s of years we've been around them, they've developed these unique vocalizations that really, that they don't do to other cats, but they do only to humans, which taps into our sort of caregiving responsibilities to feed them or be attentive, so yeah, brilliant example, when, when she's crying at you to have some sort of interaction or food, Michael Hingson  57:12 yeah. Tell me about your, your program. How does.. Speaker 1  57:17 oh gosh, so basically I'm drawn to sort of questions that people may have the answers to, but can't articulate, or everyday behaviors that we may take for granted. And an example of that might be, you know, why does it take so long for a dog to find the perfect spot to poo? You know, why they twirling around, and that's to do with the Earth's magnetic field. So, the how does series, I deliberately choose questions that sit at the intersection of curiosity and science. Some of the topics are more serious than others, but I do intentionally use some questions or look at some areas that are silly, for example, how does a dog fart, and why does some linger, and that might sound silly, but it's a brilliant entry point into physiology, digestion, dog behavior, and it kind of hooks people in, particularly the younger audiences, as you can imagine, and once they're engaged, then you can start to introduce real, real science without it feeling heavy, and another deciding factor, when I'm looking at subject matters, will be, you know, what's the science behind it? Is there robust research that can explain the science accurately without stripping it of nuance, and then you know, I might look at a different angle, like with my animals and history series, which is another one that I do, where it's still grounded in human animal interactions, but it's about historical moments involving animals, and what do those stories reveal about humans, and how we understood them, how we valued them or misunderstood them, and so on. So those two series, how does is the kind of science behind what animals do, and so on. And the animals in history is still approaching curiosity, but from a different angle. Michael Hingson  59:17 Is there one animal in history that really has changed how you think about animals that you maybe have talked about in your animal history series. Speaker 1  59:26 Gosh, I, at the last look, I think I've done about 67 so far of the animals in history, and there are some that really stick with me, and if I am allowed to have more than one, is that all right, Michael? Michael Hingson  59:43 Oh, sure. Speaker 1  59:44 Okay, so there's ones like Operation Acoustic Kitty, which is completely inhumane and unethical by today's standards, but back during the Cold War, they basically, the US researchers. Tried to create cat spies, and basically fitted them with microphones and listening devices within their bodies, and it was a bit barbaric, to say the least, but that experiment was scrapped. It wasn't very successful in the real world. The cats, when they were experimenting with them out on the street inevitably got run over or distracted. There's other experiments like attaching incendiary devices to bats in an attempt to help with the Second World War effort, which was unsuccessful because the bats didn't always do what the researchers hoped they would do, and then there's Project Pigeon, which is fascinating, and that's where researchers trained pigeons to guide missiles through pecking the screen, and that was scrapped because then Oppenheimer's bomb took over from that project, but you know these are some of the examples about how animals are drawn into human conflict strategy, even technical ambition. And then there's there's fascinating ones like Snowball, who was a Canadian cat, and her DNA was used to solve a crime in a murder case in 19 419 94 and basically it was the first time ever that animal forensics had been used in that way. So fundamentally it changed how we think about animals as part of our human environments, not just emotionally but evidentially, and then there's quirkier stories as well, but you know the stories that stand out include yours, Michael and Roselle. On that day, as I've said to you before, when we first met and chatted, you know that, that to me is just, I mean, it just gets me, your story, so yeah. Michael Hingson  1:02:04 So, what's next for you? Speaker 1  1:02:07 Golly, so there's always many plates spinning. Let's say I'm working on putting the Animals in History series into a book, so my plan is to produce a version of the video series into a form that would be of interest to young kids and adults who are interested in in the quirky and the curious, and then always stay curious, I guess. You know, I think curiosity matters. It's what drives my how does series. It's what interests me with the animals in history, and my articles that are right, my podcasts, etc. So, whether we're talking about humans, whether we're talking about non-human animals, it makes far more sense to pause and ask what might that individual individual be experiencing rather than rushing to explain or correct it, and I think if we're patient, if we're responsive, if we allow animals the time and humans that they need to cope in a world that's often crazy, and for animals largely designed by us, I think will be much better advocates for our animals and each other. So, I always think, stay curious. So, that's what I will stay as my mantra going forward. Michael Hingson  1:03:34 And it doesn't get better than that. And I hope that you stay curious. And I think curiosity is such a wonderful thing that that we should do a whole lot more than we do. Well, I want to thank you for being here with us. This has been fun. Can you believe we've been doing this over an hour? Oh gosh, I can all hold Speaker 1  1:03:53 on forever. So, oh, I'm not Michael Hingson  1:03:55 complaining, I'm not complaining. We'll have to do this again. Speaker 1  1:03:58 Yeah, thank you so much for having me. Well, Michael Hingson  1:04:00 this has been fun, and I want to thank all of you for watching and listening. Love to hear from you and hear what you think, but Hannah, for you, if people want to reach out to you, how do they do that? Speaker 2  1:04:09 It's just my name, Hanne grice.com is my H A Michael Hingson  1:04:14 N N E, not A, Speaker 1  1:04:16 yeah, Danish way, so H A double N E, G G R I C e.com So I'm on the website. You can just Google my name, follow me on socials. If you have any questions, you have any ideas for the how does, or want me to explore a story for the animals in history, always open to suggestions as well as feedback. Michael Hingson  1:04:36 Cool. Well, and I hope all of you will give us some feedback. I'd love to hear from you, feel free to email me at Michael H I M I C H A E L H I at Accessi B A C C E S S I B e.com Please give us a five star rating wherever you're observing our podcast, but more important than a rating, give us a great review. We love reviews, and people who are interested in listening to the podcast. Just really appreciate people who have already heard the podcast reviewing it, so please give us a review, and whatever you do, if you know anyone who ought to be a guest on Unstoppable Mindset, including you, Hannah, we'd love introductions to anyone that you think ought to be a guest on the podcast, and with that, again, I want to thank you, Hannah, for being here. This has been absolutely wonderful. Speaker 1  1:05:24 Thank you again, and take care, everyone listening. Michael Hingson  1:05:30 Thank you for being here with me on Unstoppable Mindset. I hope today's conversation left you with a fresh perspective, a new insight, or at least something worth thinking about. If you're ready to go deeper into the ideas that shape how we see ourselves and others, I have a free gift for you. Head over to Michael hingson.com and download my free ebook, Blinded by Fear. It explores the invisible beliefs that hold us back and shows you how to reframe them, so you can move forward with clarity and confidence. Be sure to subscribe to our podcast, leave a review, and share this show with someone who can use a reminder that growth starts with mindset. When people think differently, we all move forward together. Thanks again for listening. Keep learning, keep questioning, and keep choosing to live with an unstoppable mindset. Thank.

A life filled with curiosity can take you further than you ever imagined. I sit down with German journalist, author, entrepreneur and media expert Helmut Stapel to explore how childhood curiosity, world travel, creativity and a willingness to take risks shaped an unstoppable life. From growing up in a village of just 700 people to building an international media company, writing books, producing films and launching a global leadership initiative called The Center, Helmut shares why open-mindedness, passion and persistence matter more than fear. You will hear why he believes every idea deserves a chance, how meaningful relationships create opportunity, and why making the world better begins with each of us. I believe you will enjoy Helmut's thoughtful outlook and practical lessons on creating a life with purpose. Highlights: ·  03:05 - Early childhood curiosity becomes the foundation for a lifetime of creativity. ·  09:18 - Choosing passion over convention leads to a career that never feels like work. ·  17:33 - Building a business with almost nothing proves resourcefulness beats fear. ·  25:13 - The vision for The Center offers a new way to bring leaders together. ·  43:15 - A humorous book about the pandemic delivers a powerful lesson on questioning information. ·  54:31 - Every great achievement begins by protecting an idea instead of doubting it. About the Guest: After completing my training as a media designer, I finished my editorial traineeship at the Nordsee-Zeitung in Bremerhaven/Germany in 1997 and founded successful my media agency, “Stop press & public”, based in Bremerhaven. Through various trainings across all media sectors, I had the opportunity to build up my client base both nationally and internationally. These include contributions for the BBC as well as film work alongside the well-known producer Stratton Leopold (Mission Impossible, Captain America). My journalistic repertoire ranges from short news reports and podcasts to features in words and images. For over ten years, I have been sharing my expertise on the successful construction of narratives, stories and storylines in seminars at colleges and universities worldwide like the University of Cancún in Mexico and German Universities. The range of course content spans storytelling, digital marketing and social media strategies, journalism, photography and PR, as well as scriptwriting for novels and films. All seminars are held in English and German. As author I write fiction, travel, culture, fitness and business book. My works include the novel ‘The Day a Chinese Man Ate a Bat’, lighthouse stories, the fitness guide ‘Couch Coach’ and the international port book ‘Port City’. In 2024 I started my career as artist with my first internationally recognised concept series WorLds, which was curated for the exhibitions at ArtExpo Paris 2025 and the 24 International Art Fair Venice in 2026. The renowned Magazine FineArtNews published a multi-page feature about my new artistic approach in concept art. In autumn 2026 I will open my first solo exhibition in London with the aim, to let people benefit from the proceeds of my art. As part of the European Group “Speakers Excellence” I give keynote speeches at official events and charity events. With the project THE CENTER I have started together with my wife Daja a worldwide initiative, which will create a new basis of respect and a generation of leaders, with a new understanding of global interconnections in the spirit of a united humanity which takes responsibility for working together rather than against each other. The first events will be held in 2027 in Tuscany/Italy and Switzerland. Ways to connect with Helmut**:** Social Media: http://linkedin.com/in/helmut-stapel-5b3a60b6 https://stoppress.contently.com/ www.facebook.com/helmut.stapel #5000 www.instagram.com/stoppress Homepage: www.stoppress.de Article FineArtsNews: From Journalism to the Canvas of Conceptual Art - FineArtsNews About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT\&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children’s Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association’s 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset . Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes: Michael Hingson  00:03 One of the biggest things holding you back isn't what's in front of you, but rather what you believe. Welcome to Unstoppable Mindset, where inclusion, diversity, and the unexpected meet. I'm your host, Michael Hingson, speaker, author, and advocate for inclusion and possibilities. This podcast explores how the beliefs we carry shape the way we live, lead, and connect with others. Each week, I talk with people who challenge assumptions, face adversity head on, and show what's possible when we choose curiosity over fear. Together we focus on mindset, resilience, and the small shifts that lead to meaningful change. Let's get started. Well, hello everyone, wherever you happen to be in the world today, I want you to feel welcome at Unstoppable Mindset, that's our podcast name, and I'm your host, Michael Hingson, or if you want, you can call me Mike Hingson. Our guest today is Helmut Steppel, who is a media person, he's an author, he's an artist, he's a lot of different things, he's an entrepreneur, he started his own company. My gosh, I'm jealous, he's done a lot of different things, and I think we're going to have a great conversation over the next hour or so. So, Helmut, I want to welcome you to Unstoppable Mindset. We're glad you're here. Helmut Stapel  01:39 Thank you so much. Thank you so much, dear Mike, and thanks for having me. It's an honor to be here, because as your invitation popped up suddenly, I was a bit surprised about, I think oneself never looks at its own way of living or where we are in the way other people maybe do, and so thank you for having me and your podcast. Michael Hingson  02:02 Well, thank you. I think we'll, we'll have a lot of fun. We have a lot of things to talk about. I appreciate all the information that you sent me, and, and we'll, we got to keep it interesting because it's late where you are. It's after 9o'clock now in the evening over there, so we gotta, gotta make sure it, it stays interesting, so that you don't fall asleep. Helmut Stapel  02:24 Definitely, I try, I try to, I try to. Sorry, in another part of Germany, it's cold outside, it's not dark already, but it's getting to be dark, so it's bad time to say so. But I'm happy to be with you. Michael Hingson  02:39 How cold Helmut Stapel  02:41 is it 14 degrees, something like that. Should, should be more. Everybody's talking about El Nino, and looking at the guy in Mexico, showing pictures of red things. And we have some prognosis regarding summertime coming, some big heat from whatever it is at the moment. I must say it's quite normal and a bit too cold for this year of the time. Michael Hingson  03:05 Well, we'll see what happens. Well, why don't we start? I love to start this way. I ask people to start by telling me a little bit about, in your case, the early helmet growing up, and so on. Let's start with that. Helmut Stapel  03:18 Okay, we can do that question from my side, when does early helmet start, at which age? Because for me, for most fascinating is that for some reason I can remember, at least I can go back to, I think, as when I was one year old. Michael Hingson  03:35 Well, I'll let you start wherever you'd like to start, that certainly is early enough, but you, you tell us what it was like growing up, and all that, and if you remember back to one year old, that's great. Helmut Stapel  03:46 Okay, I grew up in a very, very beautiful landscape, a small village, 700 people living there, called Stuben in Germany, and what I remember is laying as a small child, not be able to walk, and just in a wagon, and staying at the blue sky, the clouds, tree leaves, sometimes people coming big faces. It was my aunt Helga would have figured out later on, and so I remember sounds of bees and hums and roses, the smell of roses. My mother loved roses about all around the houses, and as you see, in this way I grew up in a way where I got used to use all my senses, and I think that was some of the basis for all what followed up, because I started then to have a closer look at my environmental. When I was seven or eight years old in school, I wrote my first text. Later on, I became a journalist, but in this very moment, then I realized, and that, and also the grown-ups, that is maybe some kind of talent because. My first text got a one with a plus, so I think it was eight years old, and so I grew up in a very, very good surrounding. My father was a captain. He took me with his ship to Portugal, to Norway, to Russia in the summer time when we were out of school, so in this way somehow I got in touch with the world very early, very early. I was seven when I went the first time to Portugal, and so I think this was the basis for all what came afterwards till today. You know, I'm 60. Michael Hingson  05:35 What did you think of traveling, and how has that kind of shaped the way you look at life today, Helmut Stapel  05:44 and a lot of ways, and in a positive way, because to say so, I was not aware of how many prejudices I had in my head regarding society, media, whatever it is, since I met the people for real in the countries they were living in, and this is from the USA to Arabian countries to Asia, whatever it is, and suddenly all these influences came to my head regarding the fact, and also then the knowledge that we are all different, we all look different, and we come from different cultures, but at the end, we have all the same needs, and so there's no country where I have ever been to where I felt unsure. There is no country where I didn't met friends, for example, and it was always about being open-minded, and then meeting people who have been open-minded in the same way as I was, and so that's how everything developed. Michael Hingson  06:52 Do you have any countries that you haven't been to that you'd like to go to? Helmut Stapel  06:57 Yes, to turn upside down, where I have been to is from Alaska to Cape Horn, to go to then the Caribbean, the Atlantic, European countries, from Norway to South Africa, then to the Maldives, and go on to the beginning of India to say so. Australia is on my map. I was asked to go there, but then when the war with Ireland and USA popped up, that was so dangerous to go by Dubai by plane to go to Australia. So I will do this next spring, and somehow China is a bit too big for me, I would say, means that I would love to go inside the country to meet people that takes a lot of time, and travel journalism is a lot of people think travel journalism is something where you just stay for six months in the country, or whatever it is, it's different because of money and time, because it's all organized, and that means a big country like China would be great regarding culture, but it's would be a long part in before to have a closer look at where the stories and the people are, so I would be Australia and Japan, I think, and to say so the fastest thing I've ever had to do with Cape Horn, surrounding by zodiac with a dingy seriously, and I made 30,000 kilometers in six days coming from Germany, and I was on three continents and in six or seven different countries, and so this is travel journalism to say, so, Michael Hingson  08:43 wow. Well, I went to New Zealand in 2003 but I never got to Australia. But earlier this year, kind of, my, my wish was granted, and I'll be traveling to Australia later this year. Wow, to speak. It's the first time that I will have been to Australia. I've been to Japan, and I've been to South Korea. I've not been to China either. I think it would be fascinating to go if someday that will happen. I've not been to Germany, I've been to Spain. I'd love to come. Well, all I need are some speaking engagements to get me over there, so you know, if you know anybody who needs a speaker, we're always looking for opportunities to come and speak, but I Helmut Stapel  09:28 can have a closer look for that. Definitely, Michael Hingson  09:30 that would be fun. But anyway, I enjoy traveling. I appreciate that in reality we're all really the same. We may be raised in different cultures, and we think we're a lot more different than I think we really are, and in so many ways, but you, so you went, and you grew up, you went to school, then you went to university, right? Helmut Stapel  09:54 Yes, but in a way that I realized that in that I. Way, and at that time I was about worth 30 years old, because I did my A level at the evening school, while I was working at the same time, and then I figured out that I'm more the practical type of human being, I was not able to sit and to listen to someone and to analyze texts of other people, for I figured out that my brain was, as I was telling you, when I grew up and saw all these things with the sky and the clouds and whatever it was that my brain was meant to produce things by itself, and that it was full of ideas and pictures, and it all had to come out, and so in that way I stopped studying and made a, I was a volunteer, I made an apprenticeship at a newspaper, and became an editor, and so in that way I found my job 30 years ago, which I self employed now for 30 years due, and it's I'm blessed to do that, because since that time I don't work, I have spare time all the time. It's just doing something which I love. Michael Hingson  11:07 Well, and that's kind of important to do, and that that makes it so much more fun when you can do something that you love doing. It doesn't seem like a job anymore. It doesn't seem nearly so difficult to do, because you enjoy it, Helmut Stapel  11:22 definitely, definitely. Also, regarding writing novels, which I started then a few years ago, because sometimes my wife has to hold me back for sitting and writing, because I always love to do that. I do other things as well, but it's something which is really in my mind and my heart. Michael Hingson  11:47 Well, and you mentioned earlier that you and Daddy are getting into a new house. I hope she likes the house. Helmut Stapel  11:54 Definitely, it's our.. it's our.. thank you for asking. It's our dream house, because it's not too big. It's 160 square meters with a cellar and the roof and things like that, and there's enough space, and we have a fireplace, we have a garden, we will have a dog, and so it's like, like a dream came true, because it's a place which is silent, and for me the best thing is that we will have a fireplace in the working room as well, so I love to stay there in winter time, and then suggest to do my work, and she loves that, really, because she also says this is the house she was always looking for, and so we will then have our own home, and this is a dream. Also, Michael Hingson  12:36 do you have any children? Helmut Stapel  12:39 No, personally not. I grew up some children with the women I cared for for 12 or 15 years, but as it is sometimes when the when the young birds have grown up, the mother birds and the grown-up birds are leaving the nest without asking the father bird if he wants to fly with them, and so they flew away, and I stayed a bit concerned, but then I meet Daya, and so I knew where that comes from and what was the sense behind that, because since that time I'm absolutely happy, and I've never been that happy before in my life. Michael Hingson  13:20 Good for you and Daya, that'll, that's great. Well, it's exciting. I have lived in a number of homes. My wife and I got married in 1982 and then she passed away in 2022 And so we, we lived in various places, and we always figured out how to make it work. We had challenges because she was in a wheelchair her whole life, but we, we love to build houses when we could. There were, there were a couple times that we couldn't, but we love to build houses because that way we build accessibility into it, and it doesn't cost to do that. So, Helmut Stapel  13:54 yes, Michael Hingson  13:55 so we, we had a lot of fun with, with that. So, I, I, I can't complain a whole lot. It's worked out pretty well, but I'm glad you guys are getting into a house that'll be pretty exciting. That'll keep you busy, and while you're moving from one house to another, you'll probably find all sorts of treasures that you forgot you even had. Helmut Stapel  14:15 Can can be also some things in some cartoons or in wardrobes or whatever it is, all things I have books of my father as well, instance he was a captain, as I said, and some things are maybe hidden somewhere. Really keen on doing that, for example, as I have a past as a musician as well. When I was 23 I had a record contract with Sony Records, and somehow, regarding private things, this did not come out on the way I wanted it to be. It was for three or four years, but all this musician past is also in some draws line with things or songs. I, I started to compose and. Maybe I start this in our new home next to the fireplace again. There Michael Hingson  15:04 you go. Well, that'll be kind of fun, Helmut Stapel  15:07 definitely. Michael Hingson  15:08 So, when did you found, when did you start your own company? Helmut Stapel  15:12 Ah, that was almost 30 years ago, was in 1997 right? Directly after my apprenticeship as an editor, because I figured out that it's somehow my spirit to be more on my own track. This is also maybe founded because of my father being a captain, because when I was a young boy standing on the bridge, and he asked me if I like to be the captain of the ship, I was seven years old, and I was then asked to guide and to lead this big freight ship to the Biscaya near to Portugal in a stormy day, and I was this feeling of I can go everywhere, I could go everywhere, and so from this moment on, I had the feeling that the chances I create for myself are endless when I give them the chance to appear, and so this is why I decided to become self-employed. Michael Hingson  16:11 Wow, so that, well, it's kind of fun. So, do you, you've decided, though, you don't want to be a captain anymore? Helmut Stapel  16:18 Yes, I've became, I've become a sailor. I had a sailing boat, but I was not about to make this my profession to say so. Right, I'm a seaman as well. I do a lot of cruises, I write about cruises, I work for several magazines. I've just come back from the middle ocean with a nice trip, Explorer One from MSC, it's the Italian shipping company. I visited Sting, the international position, on his vineyard in Tuscany, which was quite an honor. And so there is a lot of connection to being a seafarer. I like cruising, and Michael Hingson  17:00 I've had had fun doing it, and would like to do more of it, even though it's just me now, but I, and I will, I think cruising for me is a great way to take a vacation, because I only have to unpack once, but, but more important than that, you know, unlike being in a timeshare where you, you go and visit places and drive, you know, I'm not going to drive or anything like that. So, I, I like cruising. I think that'll be kind of fun, and I'm looking forward to doing that in the next few years again. But, in the meanwhile, in the meanwhile, as I speak, I get to travel around and meet lots of different people, and that's kind of fun too. Helmut Stapel  17:40 Definitely, I think you're the same as I am regarding that the exchange with people is something which makes oneself feeling alive, because there are so many impulses and things one maybe has never been thinking about, and suddenly some ideas pop up out of this conversation, which is, which is quite great. Michael Hingson  18:06 Well, so tell me about your company that you started 30 years ago. It's been a been going a long time. Tell me about that. Helmut Stapel  18:14 My pleasure, because at it's also about thinking positive about life and not building your own barriers, because at that time I was, I was not a rich man, I'm not today as well, but I had so less money that I was not able to, at that time they were the starting time of computer, I was not able to have an old fax, so I had to ask some friends in the company if I could just creep in the, in the midday break into the office of their chef to send a fax to a company in Munich I wanted to work for, and so it was a bit adventurous, I really had not a lot of money. I found him affirming it in a two room apartment, and the financial department wanted not to give me the tax back, because I said it's not, it's not possible to live in a two room apartment, and in the same way found a firm, and I said, yeah, but I did it, I did it, and so in this way I worked on then working for radio because it did an apprenticeship as well then why I founded my firm and in this way it grew and grew and I did during the time all the work and apprenticeship and all kind of media you can imagine so I can work today for print for radio, I'm doing reportages for online, for TV, and in this way I ended up at the university at the end. Now, after 30 years, again, I think after 20, because since 10 years I work as a teacher as a lecturer at different university on German and English internationally as well. From South America to Japan, because online is a fascinating world where even there are no borderlines, and so I'm really happy that I was able to fulfill this dream, starting as I said, without fear. I always said I just try and never fail, I do it some other way. That's the point. Michael Hingson  20:24 You figure out a way to make it work, Helmut Stapel  20:27 absolutely, with the help of people. For example, that's always important that you meet people which feel some sympathy for you. That's right, just to help you, or they have some contacts. Most important is I think that the passion you feel for your work is readable, is hearable, whatever your media you work for, that people enjoy to follow you. And then the people who just are your employers say, 'Wow, we want to have more of that. So I think this is the point. How it works. So, what's the name of your company? It's Stop Press and Public, and it has a has a history behind that, because the part of Germany where I come from, as you see, my last name is Staple, S T A P E L, and we speak here flat German, which name means that staple is called Stoppel with an O instead of an A, right? And so I took the short form of Stoopel with an S T O P. It's like a stop sign you have in traffic, and so I said, okay, if I have stop, this is cool internationally seen for a marketing point, and I needed some things because I always, in the beginning, also as well thought, and I was sure that I wanted to work internationally, and so I thought that I need something which is short, which is international, and so I said I do it press, and there's something I do which is public, and then it will stop press and public, which is quite great, because I had no idea when I went the first time to the USA. I gave someone my business card. He said, "Whoa, this is the cool agency name, and say, "Why? And he said, "Yeah, regarding that, stop press as a synonym for latest news, stop the printing, stop the Michael Hingson  22:21 presses. Yeah. Helmut Stapel  22:22 Yes, I wasn't aware of that. And so there's really funny, yeah. And this is how that, how that figures out. Michael Hingson  22:30 And what do.. and what does the company do? Helmut Stapel  22:34 I do everything from all topics apart from ice hockey and soccer, because I, to say so, I could write or do some reports about that, but I have, you know, passion for this kind of sports, so I do everything apart from soccer and ice hockey, but also then I'm a photographer as well, so I do reportages all around the world regarding traveling as scientific journalists, as well. I do write for scientific magazines, which gives me a deep insight into topics I had never any idea before, which keeps my brain moving on and moving on, and also connecting different topics, which are maybe normally are not connected, and I do cultural reports as well. I do videos. I work for social media, and I develop social media and marketing companies as well, for big companies all around the wall, for example, the Q, not line England. I did some marketing, and there are others. So, everything which is connected with communication in what way ever is what I do. Michael Hingson  23:54 So, it's a marketing and communications company, which, which keeps you busy. How is it just you, or do you have other people in the company? Helmut Stapel  24:03 No, it's just me, and this is fascinating as well, because after I think 10 years, when I founded the firm, I was at a point from the mass of work, which came from all sides to me, to decide if I stay on my own or if I grew my firm, my company with some clerks regarding Dan becoming bigger, and when I was thinking about that, I had a closer look at my dog, which was a shepherd dog, a German Shepherd dog, and we were close friends, and he was my partner in triathlon, I did 10 years triathlon, and he was my running and my swimming partner as well, and so I looked at him, and at that time, at the day we wanted to go into the forest as we always did, and suddenly I was aware that if I have all this responsibility regarding all the people and getting all the work that they get their money at the. End of the month, and can feed their families, and things like that, that will be such a pressure for me and my small family as well. That I said, now, okay, I don't do that, because I will just lose my freedom, and so I decided to keep it small, and the way that I can normally live, and I'm not a poor man, but I'm not a rich man as well. But I have all the time of the world to organize myself. I can go to for a forest walk whenever I want. I can sleep midday on my couch whenever I want, and that was the point why I'm just on my own. Michael Hingson  25:38 And you can do podcast interviews whenever you want, and podcast conversations whenever you want. Helmut Stapel  25:43 Yes, definitely, Michael Hingson  25:44 that works out pretty well. Well, that's great. So, so what you have a project I think you're working on called The Center. Tell me about that. Helmut Stapel  25:54 Yes, thanks for asking, because this is something which is really on my mind and my heart, because dear Mike, as you asked before, regarding traveling the world, making experiences, meeting people over the years, it came to me and to my mind there are so many things where the world is not going in a direction where it should go just to be a good place for all the people that live on this planet, including all the nature which is on this planet, because without nature we cannot live on this planet, and so I developed the idea, and I'm working on this project, and I think in 2027 we will have the first, the first events is to found a place, which is called the center, because all the structures we were used to for decades, politically, naturally seen society, whatever it is, they are all breaking down, there are no, no, no roots anymore, and people are anxious that everything falls apart, and there's no center anymore, and so the idea was just to create a center where leading people from all kinds of areas, like it's economy, it's philosophy, it's a technical scene, it's astronomy, it's a religious whatever it is, just to take all this knowledge and all these different opinions and to make events for people which are in leading positions to create a feeling of that we are all in a network, because the earth is round, we cannot flee from here. We have to stay here, and we have to work with that. And the point is, when we all take something from the cookie plate and never give back anything on the plate, it will be empty, and if it's empty, no one is a winner, no one is a winner, and so the center is about then giving people the idea when they try to live a life where they give something, and it means not that they should give all their money, which they make to other people, it's about friendliness, it's about health, it's about clean water. It's about giving a warm word, and it's also giving more money as well. If someone's doing a good job, and so making the places where they live a better place, and the way they could do, and in this way giving more space for this message, because people have been treated better, they treat other people better, and it's like you throw a stone in the water, and small waves are coming, and just go. And this is the point. What the center is going to be about. If Speaker 1  28:54 you enjoy Unstoppable Mindset, and would like to help us continue bringing these conversations to you each week, we've created a way for you to support the show. Your contribution helps us cover production costs and continue sharing stories, insights, and ideas that inspire people to live with purpose and possibility. If supporting the podcast feels right for you, you'll find the link in the show notes. Thank you for being part of the unstoppable mindset community. Michael Hingson  29:28 Well, and when you throw a pebble into the water, the waves go out to the end, and then they come back, and, and it's a process. It's a process. You're Helmut Stapel  29:37 right, definitely. Michael Hingson  29:38 So, how far along are you with with this? You said in 2027 you think you're going to have the first event, and what, what, what kind of preparations are you making, and how is that going Helmut Stapel  29:50 from the first steps, writing an expose, getting my, and Daya is with me as well, because we like to found this together, just. Putting the first thoughts on paper, writing an expose, getting clear about what should it be about, having the first contacts, meeting people was like creating some kind of magnetic field, because suddenly when we started with that, things came by itself to us, that was fascinating regarding people offering sponsoring the website, for example, I have been to Zurich to an event where I met people I was not aware about, which fit to, for example, than the event character to other people, which one is the former director, the technical director of the NASA, the space agency, there's some kind of neurologist, we would say something, some people who work on brain artificial intelligence, whatever it is, and so I meet a lot of people since then who future researchers, whatever, who will be able, and would love to have events and a speech at the events of the center to be part of creating a horizon for all the people who come there to make sure and clear that in which position we are in the moment we look at earth in the space, because not many people are aware of that, how, how fragile this is, and so with all the knowledge and all the things like philosophy, which, as I said, we will try to implement a feeling of we have an at the people I have to do something, and in this way we are on the way. We have two places where we love to make the events. We came across that in the beginning we would think to concentrate on one place, but then we figured out it's better to have different places, just to have more atmosphere. One is in Switzerland, and the other is in Italy. And we are about to create, then, the program to make sure, as people have to pay for that. This is quite a point. We cannot do it for free, because there are some costs, but to create the program and sending invitations, making advertisements on Instagram, social media, whatever it is, and have a closer look on LinkedIn, how the feedback is, and the point is that without, as I work all my life like that, even if I write a novel or whatever it is, without setting a deadline for something, you will never reach your aim, because you say, yeah, maybe sometime someday. No, we do it in 2027 in summer, and in this way we have some time to move into a new home and our house, and in the same moment, just working with the people who already have said that they want to have a speech there, for example, we also are in touch with Laura Chaplin, which is a niece, you say, so from Charlie Chaplin. She lives in Switzerland. She, she loves to come there too, because she, she's a person who thinks that humor is an important point in life to create some kind of life feeling, and so in that way we are on the way to have then the first event in June or July 2027 and it will be in Switzerland at the Lake of Your Walsh Stetter Zie, near to Lucerne, or in Tuscany near to Lawrence Fierense, Michael Hingson  33:48 that sounds exciting. How large do you think the event will be? Helmut Stapel  33:52 We think about two events in the beginning in a year with maximum of 15 participants, maybe 10, because it will be very intensive, and it's not something to say so, which can be in Germany. We say inflation, inflation, or maybe this is the word in English. It's something that has to grow, as to say so. I have a friend. When I talked to him about that, he said that's too big. You will never, never see and realize how this will work. And I said, no, this is not the idea behind it, because someone has to start the process. All the things which can be big in history of humanity started at one point, and over if it takes centuries, I don't care. Someone has to start it, and if the idea works, it will work inside the people, which carry the idea to other people. And so we start with, I think, two events in a year, and maybe then 10 up to 15 people, max. Simon, Michael Hingson  35:01 well, so 10 to 15 people will be speaking. Is there an audience in addition to that, or it's just going to be an event with those people, and they're going to then take the message elsewhere? Helmut Stapel  35:13 No, the audience will be 10 to 15 people. Got it? Because the idea behind this, that also, because they were thinking about that every every change in society, if you look at human history, started on an unhealthy basis, which means that we're all people who were hungry, they were poor, whatever it is, and they were just fed up with the lives they were living, and said we have to change something, and this always meant war, this meant revolution, whatever it is, and at the end, most of the time, exactly those people became like the people they were talking about before, that they are the vicious people, so we thought about if we want to change something, the best thing is to talk to the people who are able, in their actual, in their current positions, to change something, which is their advantage as well. This is the concept of the center. It doesn't mean that you change when you change your mindset in this way that you lose something. No, it's about the advantage for everyone, and this is the idea behind the center. Michael Hingson  36:23 How did this come to your, to your mind? How do you, how did you create it? What, what caused you to think about doing this? Helmut Stapel  36:32 I have not really an exact idea. It was, it was a, it was a fusion of all the things I was talking about. There was one moment where suddenly all the things I mentioned in the beginning, regarding there's no center, everything is falling apart. I witnessed that, as everyone does on the TV and the radio, on social media, and when this witness, I talk to people, to friends, and also in other countries, and I figured out that this kind of anxiety creeps into the minds and souls of so many people that they got stuck in their lives, and that somehow all this beauty, which is around us, is not seen anymore, and it's just something that it's like the world is going to be getting dark, whatever it is, and we can stop that. And that was the point when that this, when I said someone has to stop that. And then I said, okay, then I'm the one, together with Daya. Michael Hingson  37:39 Well, that'll keep you and I are busy, you know, gives you, gives you something to do, and, and, and I'm sure you'll, you'll create an environment where there'll be a lot of good ideas that will come out of it, which is, of course, what it's all about, right? Helmut Stapel  37:53 Yes, yeah, definitely, because the way we treat each other is the basis for all that, regarding that we both have have an eye on each other, a closer look, that the other one feels good, just asking, do you need something, can I do something, and things like that, and that way we created a process which brings us with the positive energy forward in a very, very exciting and powerful way. Michael Hingson  38:23 Well, and that's, you know, that's always exciting, and it'll be interesting to see where, where this goes, and how the center grows, and how you can use that to influence people. We need to have more of that, I think the whole idea of helping to create and change, well, to change the world and make it a better place, there's always a good thing to do. Helmut Stapel  38:49 Yeah, I think you're definitely right, Mike. Also, then based on the idea that when we start with that in this on the small scale, it doesn't mean that not other people can do the same in other countries, you know. I registered the trademark just to, and the logo, and the and the and the sign, because it makes sense to have something which is steady, and if other people, then, for example, think that they are convinced by this idea, there's, there's nothing which is against the idea, then, that they do is in the country with the same concept as well. So, this is what we hope, that it's for example, I think there's always fascinating friend of mine, he, he's a scientist in mushrooms, and he's so keen on mushrooms, and he's telling about mushroom stories all day long, but the point is, this is the most fascinating living being, because it's under the ground, and it's just no one is seeing how it moves, and it's getting bigger and bigger, and what we eat is just what pops. Up right, and but but it's invisible, and when it comes out, everybody says I had no idea that it's that big, and I think this is the idea about sorry, the center creating a network which grows by itself and has more and more points where the idea pops up, that's the point, Michael Hingson  40:18 yeah, which, which makes sense. Tell me about some of the books that you've written, if you would. Helmut Stapel  40:25 I love to love to, because as I said, when I was eight, I wrote my first essay, which somehow astonished the teacher, and then I wrote my first poems, and short stories was 1312 or 13 years, and then I was aware of the fact that I want to become a writer. What happened was I became a writer in the way that I became a journalist, which took a lot of time, because I'm self-employed, but in the same way I was always keen on writing books, and I wrote several books, I think. Meanwhile, it's seven or eight. The first novel and short story thing, the first novel was 2024 and the short story mixed with with pictures. I'm doing pictures as well. I'm a painter as well, and so this was then 20 years ago, and so this is just the process of developing things. There's a poem book as well, it's called Lemon Land, which is quite interesting with funny poems, and as I'm interested in so many things, there are people asked me to write tourism things about lighthouses, for example. There were people, they asked me to write economic books about how a harbor works. For example, in Germany, we have one of the biggest, or some of the biggest container harbors of the world, the city where I live, Bremerhaven, for example, which is very connected to the USA. We had, I think, 6 million containers a year, and now we are somehow about 3.8 3.6 or whatever it is, and so this is some logistical thing, I wrote a fitness book as well, since I did triathlon 10 years and it was a vegetarian at that time, and so I figured out how that works, and suddenly I started to eat meat again, because then from one day to another it tastes good again for me, and so I wrote a fitness book, as well. It's called The Couch Coach, because I figured out that so many people sitting in front of the TV saying, "Ah, I would like to go to a studio, but it costs so much energy, and I would love to stay in front of my TV. And so I thought to develop a fitness program for people just laying on the couch and making sports, so it works with some, it's not a lot of weight, it's for your food and for your hands, and so within 15 or 20 minutes, you can just exercise your body from the food while you, while you eat pizza and eat Coca Cola. So I also have some diet program in the book, but you're not forced to do this, is this is not this. If you want to become a better man, just have a diet and do sport. No, a lot of people just stop them doing that, because it's exhausting. And so you can decide to change your life, but you can keep on lying on the couch, just having pizza and drinking Coke. It's just about bringing people into the mood of movement, and so I think this is the mixture. Actually, I wrote a travel guide, which maybe can now will come out this year, and it's the first travel guide one has written in this style on this planet. Honestly, there's no book like that. I'm very proud on this, and while I'm looking for someone that publishes it, I already work on my next novel with Willy, a criminal story, which plays on a lighthouse. Daya is very excited hearing the next things I have written, and so these are the writing projects I do work on. Michael Hingson  44:16 So, what's the name of the travel book? Helmut Stapel  44:19 I cannot say this is a secret, it's Michael Hingson  44:23 not out yet. So, yeah, you can't say what's the last book. Oh, go ahead. Helmut Stapel  44:28 The last book is also quite exciting, because it will be published next week on English, and will be available worldwide. It's called The Day a Chinese Ate a Bet, and so, as you can imagine, it's about Corona, and it's the very first book on a journalism basis written in a comedian style, apart from the fact that Corona was not really funny, that that takes all the things which has happened based. Based on a two year research on press releases from US government, the World Health Health Organization, whatever it is, articles, just to make an overview, what happened at what time, and who did say what, because of blaming whom, to bring some light into this chaos in a very funny way, regarding that, the theory and the rumor that Chinese eat beds are just based on one video from an influencer from Thailand who pretended to eat a bed, and so that was an ah, all Chinese eat bats, they produce corona, and so this is why it's called like the day Chinese ate a bad and the main point is the message in this book is not to believe everything people are telling you because they want to influence you and not to ask the question where's the source where's the basis for that and so yeah and it's in one day in Wuhan, a taxi driver who has all the people, there's a billionaire called Phil Bates, you can assume who I mean, and other people who are driving in this taxi one after another, and all this taxi driver gets all the stories and infos, and so he gets more confused and confused and nervous, and so it's a day in Wuhan where it pops up all the people who are connected, maybe with the with the existing of the coronavirus, and they all meet at the end in a final place to say so. And then we have the conclusion, but I won't, I won't spoil that. Oh, you don't want to do Michael Hingson  46:42 that? No, by no means. So, it'll be published in English next week, huh? Helmut Stapel  46:47 Yes, exciting! Wow, Michael Hingson  46:48 that's pretty cool. Helmut Stapel  46:51 I'm really proud on that. Michael Hingson  46:54 Well, so what publisher is publishing it, or how's that working? Helmut Stapel  47:00 I did this by myself. Okay, Helmut Stapel  47:03 yeah, with this book, for example, and have chosen the soil name Arthur Block because it was my grandpa, and I thought Arthur Block is more international than Helmut Staple. It's more, there's more speed behind it. Arthur Block, yay. And as I did my first apprenticeship as graphic designer, I decided, because I'm familiar with books and publishing with the newspaper, I have all the knowledge to publish my book by myself, and I try to, and it's working out good, because I have a lot of five star five five-star ratings on Amazon, and there are some kind of.. we have in Germany, for example, companies like Books on Demand, which then bring this with an ISBN number into all bookshops in the world, and so it was a kind of adventure. I still work on that. Regarding also, thank you for naming this in your podcast, doing some marketing on Google, and things like that. Normal, just have a closer look, how that that works. And so, with the with the travel guide, I'm in touch with Lonely Planet, which is quite known as travel guide, which young people love all around the world, and they are interested, and so looking forward if they really want to. If not, and if no one likes to, I publish it by myself again Michael Hingson  48:35 now. So, will the day the Chinese ate a bat, when that comes out in English form, will that also be available in places like Amazon? Helmut Stapel  48:45 Definitely, I figured out, and this is the exciting part of, at first I had no idea how that works with Amazon and Kindle, and whatever it is, and then I figured out, by it was incidentally, when I created this book at first in German, then I published it on Amazon, and they have an ISBN number as well. And I thought, okay, now I'm in business internationally, and a friend of mine said, okay, I like to buy your book, I go to a bookshop, and he had the title and asked for the book, and they looked into the PC and said there is no book like that, and there is no author like that, and he called me, and I said this is not possible, because I have the ISBN number here from Amazon, and then I figured out that Amazon has an own ISBN number, which doesn't pop up in the international catalogs of bookshops, you need a different ISBN number from the first three numbers, Michael Hingson  49:41 yeah. Helmut Stapel  49:42 Yes, and so I always have to use two channels, it's Amazon with Kindle and things like that, and also the normal book shops who like books on demand, as I said, with the international normal ISBN number. Michael Hingson  49:55 Will there be a an audio version of the book? Helmut Stapel  49:58 Yes, I work. That since I'm a radio moderator as well, and we have a studio at home, and we will have a really pretty studio, and on your house, I love it. I will produce the books as audio versions as well. Michael Hingson  50:13 Well, that'll be exciting. You'll have to let us know when, when the audio version, especially, comes, comes out. That'll be, Helmut Stapel  50:20 I will, Michael Hingson  50:20 that'll be easier for me to read. I mean, I can buy a print book, and I can use optical character recognition to read it, but I'm lazy. I'd rather have an audio version, and I know other people would too. So, that'll be, that'll be exciting when it, when it does come out. Helmut Stapel  50:34 I'll let you know, it's more personally somehow, if you just see the voice of than the author just reading something. Michael Hingson  50:40 Yeah, well, whether it's you reading it or someone, it'll still be good to have an audio version. Now, you have also made a movie. Tell me about the movie. Helmut Stapel  50:49 Yes, I work on that. It's not in the cinema, it's the process I'm still working on, and I'm really proud on that too. Yeah, because it's also, yeah. yeah, realizing what chance you can take to do whatever it is, and as I said, the borderlines you have are the borderlines you put by yourself, and when I figured out that I was going to go to Savannah, USA, and had the chance to have an interview with Stratton Leopold, who is the very, very well-known producer in the USA. He made movies like Mission Impossible, Star Trek. He was involved in Captain America, and things like that. I thought, when I have so many ideas in my head, I just can write two pages down and just ask him if he thinks it's a good story, and so when we had this interview, we're sitting on our own in an old cinema in Savannah, next to the ice shop he's running, he has taken that from his father, Leopold's ice cream, it's really cool because you have all the things from his movies into the ice shop, all the things from Mission Impossible, and this is really cool. And so I was asking him if you could maybe have a closer look at this two page, no, I think it was four pages, and what he thinks about the story, and he said, yeah, for sure, and was quite great a moment in my life, because in the interview he before mentioned how many people give him short things, manuscripts or text, and hope that he's doing something with that, and there, and he said there's so many things he's sorry to say that, but they are not good, and then he was reading my text, and at the end he was looking at me and was like one second, two seconds, three seconds, and then he said this is a good story, and I say, thank you. And then he asked me if he could take it home with him, just have a closer look. He asked me if I had already saved it. I said, no, I didn't. He said, just do. For example, now I'm a member of the American Writers Guild East, so that my text and my scripts are protected and I shifted all my dates behind with the travel journalism because he asked me if I can come back next day and we had a closer tour in Savannah to look for locations where we can just have this movie we were looking for people with money then for script writers and things like that but unfortunately in between, then Corona popped up, and it was then this 2021 22 and 23 in the middle, I think we started to work again on that, but unfortunately, the people who was were before able to give the money, they were gone, and so we are start, we have started from some new point, but with the same energy, and suddenly, because our movie should be named Wish, like the Wish, because it's about wishing something, and it's a mixture between the digital world and the fairy tale world and the reality, to say so, which is quite interesting, and suddenly I walked beneath a cinema in Germany, and I saw this Walt Disney movie, Wish, and I said no, impossible. So there was this title, and we had a conference as well. So we renamed the movie. I cannot tell you how it is named, but we found people with money. Again, we have a script writer, and so we're going in the next process. Then I'm going to contact different companies like Netflix, Walt Disney, and Paramount. At first, the three is enough. And we have in Germany an institution, it's called a Deutsche Film Ferderung. They give money by the state to people who create movies. I'm in touch with them. Helmut Stapel  54:45 The only point is that if you get money from the state of Germany, you have to integrate parts of Germany visual into the movie, so, and this is this is the reason why in Mission Impossible films. Tom Cruise starts from Berlin with a plane or a factory in Hamburg is going to explode, or whatever it is, because they got money from the German state for the production, and we worked on that already, and so this is the point I think. Also, 22 seven will be a very, very fascinating year for me, because we think about having the movie then on the market, it's Michael Hingson  55:27 exciting. Absolutely, well, so what, what, what would you say to someone to help them get motivated to achieve their goal, whatever that might be. Helmut Stapel  55:44 Whoa, as I also teach script writing, there's one point where we start in how this movie script starts. It always starts with an idea, and the idea is only there because you realize something, which has happened, and then you, you stuck to that, and you go on with that, and don't stop developing it till the script and the movie is done, and so it's the same in reaching your life goals. If you have an idea, maybe you have it by itself in your brain, or you are motivated by people, or you want to copy or cover whatever it is, but there are two chances, two channels to say, so you can go. The one is to demotivate yourself, because you say, 'Oh no, I don't think this is quite good. It could be better. There may be some people who might say it could be better, or they think about things what I think, and so then you lose your energy. The other channel is to realize that every everything you're thinking, everything you figure out is unique in the world and the universe, and if you just blow it away, it's gone. And this is such a waste, this is such a waste, and so just take the channel, keep the idea like a treasure, get energy, money, whatever it is, and think about that. Also, a tree is not a tree because it's grown up in 10 seconds, it starts small, and so start small, like I said, with the Savannah cinema thing with Stratton, have a closer look at my script. What do you think? And so then maybe in one and a half year, this movie will then be into the cinema, and also it doesn't matter what other things that are, if you stay to your idea, don't block yourself, and don't forbid you anything regarding thinking how something could work. Test it, as I said, and if it doesn't work, test another way. Thomas Alpha Edison, for example, before he, he was able to have electric light, I think he destroyed 1000 of the gluing, whatever, glooming, whatever, bomb, because the material wasn't right. And then he was asked by some journalist, wasn't that frustrating? And he said no, because then in this way I figured 1000 way out, how it does not work. You find 1000 Michael Hingson  58:36 things that didn't work, you don't have to worry about them anymore. Helmut Stapel  58:39 Yeah, and as I always say, even if you are going to be self-employed, looking for clients, whatever it is, if you are disappointed by yourself or by someone else, take it as a motivation. It's a motivation. It's not the end of the world, it's the start of doing something else. Michael Hingson  58:59 What do you think is the most important thing that you've ever Helmut Stapel  59:04 done. Meeting Daya, of course, I think that's Michael Hingson  59:08 a good answer. Helmut Stapel  59:09 This is one, and during my lifetime, I saved the life of seven people for real, biologically, financially, emotionally, so this is something I'm very proud on, regarding cost, cost a lot of energy to do that, but they are on their way, and they're still here, which is quite great. This is something I wrote, my first novel. Yeah, I saved my mother's life, which is quite a good thing, because she brought me to the world. This is something, and what else? Let me think, because it's such an important question. I think that this is something. Okay, and there was a day when I figured out that it's an important thing to love myself and. That I like myself, and even if there are things which are maybe not quite content with, but that I realized that I'm a worthwhile person in that way. When I give something to other people, and this way I have grown, because I don't expect people to give something to me back. If they do it, it's fine. Then I'm grateful, but in that way I can give a lot of things to other people, and this is, I think, a bit - this is a big gift. Michael Hingson  1:00:30 That's great. Well, if people want to reach out to you, how do they do that? Helmut Stapel  1:00:35 It could be on my homepage, as it maybe appears. Then, after our podcast it's www stop press, what could it be.de stop press or Michael Hingson  1:00:48 de, okay, Helmut Stapel  1:00:49 or even also on on WhatsApp on my mobile phone would work because I love fast conversation and writing emails as well, yeah. Instagram would be a good idea. It's also stop press on Instagram. There are a lot of channels, but I think these are the most important. LinkedIn, for example, also Michael Hingson  1:01:12 stop press again. Helmut Stapel  1:01:14 Yes, Michael Hingson  1:01:15 okay. Well, I hope people will reach out. This has been absolutely fascinating. I have enjoyed it. I hope you have, and absolutely. And it's time for you to go to bed. It's getting late there. It's 10 o'clock. Yeah, I Helmut Stapel  1:01:27 think I will not go to bed. I asked my wife if we have an hour TV watching from the couch and having couch coach training. Well, there you go. Well, Michael Hingson  1:01:36 maybe now she can watch TV again, since we keep the internet free. But I want to thank you for being here, and I want to thank all of you for listening and watching us today. If you'd like, if you'd like to talk to me, any of you, feel free to email me at speaker at Michael hinkson.com that's s p e a k e r at m i c h a e l h i n g s o n.com Hopefully, you will also reach out to Helmut, love to get a review from you, so wherever you're observing the podcast, please give us a review, and if you know of anyone who ought to be a guest, we'd love it if you'd introduce us. We're always looking for people to tell their stories, but Helmut, I want to thank you again for being here. This has been absolutely wonderful. Helmut Stapel  1:02:20 Thank you so much, Mike. It was my pleasure. Comes from the heart, and it was a very, very interesting and great time. And I hope we stay in touch to start some common projects that would be wonderful. Michael Hingson  1:02:30 Let's do it. But I really thank you for being here. Helmut Stapel  1:02:34 My pleasure, Mike. Michael Hingson  1:02:38 Thank you for being here with me on Unstoppable Mindset. I hope today's conversation left you with a fresh perspective, a new insight, or at least something worth thinking about. If you're ready to go deeper into the ideas that shape how we see ourselves and others, I have a free gift for you. Head over to Michael hingson.com and download my free ebook, Blinded by Fear. It explores the invisible beliefs that hold us back and shows you how to reframe them, so you can move forward with clarity and confidence. Be sure to subscribe to our podcast, leave a review, and share this show with someone who can use a reminder that growth starts with mindset. When people think differently, we all move forward together. Thanks again for listening. Keep learning, keep questioning, and keep choosing to live with an unstoppable mindset. 1:03:40 Thank

Sometimes the path you planned isn't the one that leads to your greatest impact. I sit down with executive coach and former international lawyer TC Cooper to explore why being unstoppable isn't about following a perfect career path. Growing up in rural South Carolina before studying at Columbia Law School and building a 25-year legal career, TC shares how staying open to change helped her create a portfolio career centered on coaching, leadership, and artificial intelligence. You will hear why listening is one of the greatest leadership skills, how AI should support rather than replace human thinking, and why the best leaders help others discover their own answers. We also talk about career transitions, comparison, accessibility, and taking the first step when life feels uncertain. I believe you will find practical ideas that help you move forward with greater confidence and create your own unstoppable mindset. Highlights: 01:28 – Learn how your background can shape your future. 19:32 – Discover why great leaders ask better questions. 34:54 – Learn how to use AI without losing your creativity. 49:41 – Understand why embracing change creates new opportunities. 56:08 – Stop comparing yourself and focus on your own path. 1:00:12 – Take the first step when you feel stuck. About the Guest: Over more than 25 years, TC Cooper has curated a professional career that integrates her faith, passion for delivering practical legal solutions for modern businesses, along with her heart for entrepreneurship and deep appreciation for global cultures. Her work has taken her across six continents, where she has advised, trained, and worked with thousands of leaders through her advisory, coaching, and media platforms. TC Cooper is a founder, attorney, certified artificial intelligence governance professional, executive coach, and advisor who works with executives, founders, and boards navigating growth, complexity, and change. With more than two decades of legal and regulatory experience spanning federal government service, large law firms, and in-house leadership roles, she brings practical judgment and clarity to high-stakes decisions where risk, innovation, and leadership intersect. As the founder of UpwardAction Advisory and UpwardAction Media, TC advises professional service firms and leadership teams on AI governance, leadership development, and operational strategy. She helps organizations move beyond theory to implementation by building governance structures, decision frameworks, and leadership practices that allow artificial intelligence and emerging technologies to be used responsibly, effectively, and in alignment with business objectives. Through her executive coaching practice, TC works directly with senior leaders who are at an inflection point in their careers. Her clients include executives and founders managing significant change, reassessing priorities, or intentionally building portfolio careers that combine leadership roles, board service, advisory work, and personal pursuits. She helps leaders incorporate their passions into their professional lives while making clear, strategic decisions about what to take on, what to step away from, and how to lead through transition without losing momentum. TC is also the creator of FaithFocusFlow, a lifestyle and leadership platform for professionals who want their work to reflect both competence and conviction. In addition to her advisory and coaching work, she is deeply engaged in philanthropy, board service, and community leadership, with a strong focus on education and global engagement. Known for her direct approach, steady presence, and actionable insight, bottom line: leaders call TC when they are at an inflection point and want guidance navigating change, shaping a portfolio career, and making decisions about using, training, or governing artificial intelligence. Ways to connect with TC**:** Website:   http://www.coachtc.com  LinkedIn:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/iamcoachtc TikTok:       https://www.tiktok.com/@iamcoachtc About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT\&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children’s Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association’s 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset . Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes:

From sanding boats and watching his fingerprints disappear to building a future through digital marketing and entrepreneurship, Christopher Maritz shares the hard lessons that shaped his unstoppable mindset. Growing up in South Africa, Chris experienced life across different financial realities, from comfort to uncertainty, which fueled his determination to create long-term financial security for his family. In our conversation, he discusses discipline, accountability, faith, leadership, sales, wealth building, and the choices that separate average performers from elite ones. You will hear why he views work like a video game, how fatherhood changed his life overnight, and why listening, personal responsibility, and choosing the right circle can transform your future. If you're looking for practical lessons on financial growth, personal development, entrepreneurship, and building a lasting legacy, I believe you will find this conversation valuable Highlights: 00:56 - How childhood discipline shaped his work ethic. 10:18 - Why seeing different income levels changed his view of money. 12:46 - The promise he made to create financial security for his family. 27:31 - How faith helped transform his relationships and direction. 45:19 - Why becoming a father completely changed his habits and focus. 1:04:08 - How adversity helps build an unstoppable mindset. About the Guest: I am a 38-year-old South African male, married to a beautiful wife and have a beautiful 2.5-year-old little girl. We definitely did not come from money whatsoever. We had it pretty decent until about 10 or myself at least had it pretty decent until about 10, 11. We started going through a couple of financial struggles as the country was changing. So I have a unique perspective of having it really well off in the beginning of my life and then kind of having that taken away from me. So I am an overtly hard worker. We have been through multiple different industries. Myself, I started as a panel beater, data capturer, waiter at multiple different restaurants, moved into sales at a hospitality and catering company, broke records there, went to work at a technology solutions company and looked after the biggest video wall in the world and then from there moved into AVVC IT VoIP TC. And kind of that is where I moved into engineering a little bit. As a SCADA engineer, I was a service ops manager for a company. I really enjoyed it, but unfortunately I did not think that the finances there, in my personal opinion at least, were going to help me and my family succeed and build an empire. So we moved into digital marketing. I was able to find an amazing job through a gentleman. He is the best person, Brad Ferris. And I was given an amazing role at an amazing company. I learned a lot. I upskilled myself significantly through multiple different certifications and just being around a lot of skilled people. Fast forward to today, I am lucky enough to be at the best digital marketing agencies in the world. In Kick Charge Creative, I have been able to fund myself enough to buy the best lead generation software in the world, Seamless AI. I avidly enjoy spending time with my daughter, taking my family on holidays based on the hard work that I have put in. We are very interested in purchasing properties, investing in businesses, getting equity shares and splits. So you can kind of look at it like this, I used to be quite a bit of a lazy gamer computer gamer and now my new computer game is taking extreme hard work and transmuting it into finances for our family to build an empire and leave our beautiful little girl a legacy. Ways to connect with Chris**:** https://www.facebook.com/chris.maritz.2025/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/christopher-grant-maritz-219a6254/ About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT\&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children’s Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association’s 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset . Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes:

A narrowing field of vision became the very thing that sharpened Michael Ison’s purpose. In this conversation, I talk with author, ghostwriter, and educator Michael Ison about growing up in a large Appalachian family, living with retinitis pigmentosa, and learning how to prepare for a future with less sight but more determination. Michael shares how watching his father struggle with blindness shaped his own approach to vision loss, why acceptance matters more than denial, and how a white cane transformed his independence. We also explore the power of storytelling, the value of education around blindness, and how writing memoirs helps people connect with the human experience. Michael’s honesty, humility, and willingness to learn offer a powerful reminder that fear doesn't have to define the path ahead. Highlights: 01:33 - Growing up in Appalachia shaped Michael’s work ethic and resilience. 08:14 - A return visit to Kentucky revealed the power of kindness and community. 20:02 - Accepting vision loss early makes adaptation easier and more effective. 26:51 - Using a white cane increased both independence and confidence. 46:09 - Fear became motivation to prepare for life with less vision. 56:46 - Ghostwriting allows powerful stories to reach and inspire others. About the Guest: As the ninth child of two hillbillies from the hollers of Appalachia, Michael fell in love with the overcomer’s story. His parents, Elijah and Jōssie Ison, attended school until eighth grade and then dropped out to make ends meet. Leaving the mountains behind for the hard-pressed pavement of Detroit, they bootstrapped it through life and raised ten children of their own accord. By the time Michael was born, their endemic poverty had been overcome by their upward ascent. They carved out a typical, middle-class living, despite their indigent roots and proclivity for reproduction. From their rags-to-regular story, Michael learned that we all don’t get a head start, but we all must start to get ahead. Elijah carved a niche in Michael’s psyche through his storytelling, as did Jōssie through her never-say-die loyalty. As a pillar in the church, Elijah often taught Bible stories with a giftedness that kept the members captivated. He specialized in teaching the younger generations. At home, he spoke of Dynamite Red’s lore—a feisty, red-haired child who created mischief like others left footprints—and Elijah spun those cautionary tales, magically keeping his children in stitches. Dynamite’s imaginary legacy lived on, even after Elijah passed, but beyond the stories and Elijah’s life, held fast the undying love of Elijah’s dear wife. Jōssie demonstrated a capacity for love that outlasted the sun. Despite her children’s tireless shenanigans or her husband’s long-time dementia, her undying hope for them never burned out. She encouraged others through deeds, but not words, and wherever she went, she left a treasure trail of benevolence that whispered, “You can always come home, and you can count on me to never leave.” Those characteristics never let Michael go.   During his childhood, Michael gained an insatiable interest in sports and stories. His favorite comic strip, Peanuts, combined both loves. He identified with Charlie Brown, who, though he was a stupendously horrible athlete, was an indomitable character. Michael, on the other hand, performed superbly in athletics. During his senior year of basketball, even though he attended one of the smallest high schools in Ohio and his team lost every game, he somehow got cut from the team and watched from the bleachers. Despite that minor setback, like Good Old Charlie Brown, Michael forged ahead, determined to write a success story. At a tiny college in Nashville, Tennessee, he studied English and Bible and completed his four-year degree in merely eleven. After that, he continued working in the distribution industry while becoming a single father of three. Then, he achieved a dream. For nearly two decades, he’d set his sights on teaching English Language Arts, and in the fall of 2013, he began his second career at Northwest High School in Justin, Texas, finally hitting the bullseye. In the summer of 2016, another dream came true. Michael completed his first novel, Granted, and told the story of a man’s search for redemption. After self-publishing that novel, a colleague asked if he’d consider ghostwriting. Devoid of failure’s shortsightedness, Michael gave it a shot: The worst thing he could do was miss. Ten books later, Michael considers ghostwriting a success, for more than one reason. Not only does he tell stories, but he also captures others’ visions despite his blindness. That’s the plot twist. In 2006, Michael was diagnosed with retinitis pigmentosa, and that loss inspired him. He returned to college. He finished his degree. He became a teacher. His eyesight waned. Accepting the challenge to ghostwrite was another step in that direction. As was leaving education and becoming a full-time entrepreneur. Each step Michael took proved to himself and others that adversity is an opportunity in disguise. Even the thirty thousand steps he took running a marathon. Sometimes, those with no vision have the best perspective. Michael has authored/coauthored twelve books, spoken internationally, and works with educators and leaders, positioning their experiences to promote powerful life changes. As an indispensable thought partner, he helps clients discover the presence that makes breakthroughs in their lives and yours. That story is not finished. Ways to connect with Michael: www.linkedin.com/in/michael-ison-a43a0023a https://michaeldaleison.com About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT\&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children’s Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association’s 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset . Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes:

The lessons that shape us often come from the places we never planned to go and the challenges we never expected to face. In this conversation, I speak with Eric Fisher about the experiences that shaped his approach to mental wellness, resilience, grief, and personal growth. Eric shares how martial arts taught him balance, self-control, and perseverance, and how those lessons now help him guide people through addiction recovery, relationship challenges, and life’s hardest moments. We explore the realities of grief, the power of trust, the difference between inpatient and outpatient counseling, and why healing often begins with self-acceptance. Eric also discusses his books, including The Martial Art of Recovery and Buried Alive, revealing how personal experiences and family stories continue to shape his work. If you've ever faced loss, adversity, addiction, or the challenge of rebuilding after setbacks, I believe you will find both practical insights and encouragement in Eric’s story. Highlights: 08:10 - Eric shares lessons learned from his FBI internship experience. 18:43 - A friend's crisis leads Eric and his wife to move to New Zealand. 23:38 - Martial arts becomes a foundation for recovery and mental wellness. 37:05 - Eric reflects on grief, loss, and the importance of support. 43:12 - Self-acceptance plays a critical role in addiction recovery. 50:26 - Couples learn to face problems together instead of against each other. About the Guest: Eric Fisher, a Canadian transplant, is a counselling therapist who resides in Calgary, Alberta, Canada. Originally from Tennessee, he has over 15 years of experience working outpatient and inpatient treatment settings in the US and Canada. He has two books published at this time: The Martial Art of Recovery: Self-Mastery Practices to Subdue Addiction and Achieve Mental Wellness, and Buried Alive: Four Ways to Free Yourself from the Dirt. Eric is a master practitioner of Accelerated Resolution Therapy (ART) and is also trained in EyeMovement Desensitization and Reprocessing (EMDR), both of which are evidence-based treatments for trauma. Eric's private practice, Recovery Arts Counselling, serves individuals, couples, and families both locally and remotely. In the past, Eric has supervised masters-level graduate students and counsellors early in their careers. He has won multiple awards for his screenwriting: The Departure - official finalist in biographical/historical genre - 2014 Beverly Hills Screenplay Contest. Only 16 Miles - Finalist - 2014 Horror Screenplay Contest. Universal Escapade (Finalist - Top 25) - WeScreenplay International Screenplay Competition. Hipster Z (co-written) - best feature screenplay - 2017 Action On Film International Film Festival. Hipster Z - Best horror/comedy Screenplay - 2017 International Horror Hotel Film Fest. Additionally, Eric has a black belt in two martial arts styles: American Kenpo and Wadō-ryū. One interesting thing about Eric is that he had the opportunity to be an intern with the FBI -- twice. Eric enjoys hiking and riding his bike outdoors, music concerts, tasting new food dishes to keep his taste buds guessing, travelling near and far, and meeting people. . Ways to connect with Eric: Website: https://www.recoveryartscounselling.com Linktree:  https://linktr.ee/ericfisherauthor  Instagram - @recoveryartscounselling - https://www.instagram.com/recoveryartscounselling/ @ericfisherwriter - https://www.instagram.com/ericfisherwriter Linkedin - Eric Fisher - www.linkedin.com/in/eric-m-fisher-5b83724a Facebook - Recovery Arts Counselling - https://www.facebook.com/RecoveryArtsCounselling About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT\&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children’s Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association’s 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset . Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes: Michael Hingson  00:03 One of the biggest things holding you back isn't what's in front of you, but rather what you believe. Welcome to Unstoppable Mindset, where inclusion, diversity, and the unexpected meet. I'm your host, Michael Hingson, speaker, author, and advocate for inclusion and possibilities. This podcast explores how the beliefs we carry shape the way we live, lead, and connect with others. Each week, I talk with people who challenge assumptions, face adversity head on, and show what's possible when we choose curiosity over fear. Together we focus on mindset, resilience, and the small shifts that lead to meaningful change. Let's get started. Well, hello there, everyone. I am your host Michael Hinkson, and you have found the Unstoppable Mindset Podcast. Today, we get to chat with Eric Fisher, who is a rather interesting person. I believe he's a counseling therapist, he's a transplant, he now lives in Calgary, but he used to live in Tennessee, very similar. I'm sure we'll have to find out more about that, but I'm really glad that that you're here with us. Eric, welcome to Unstoppable Mindset. Eric Fisher  01:29 Yes, thank you for having me on, Michael. I appreciate it. Glad to be here. Michael Hingson  01:32 Well, I'm going to have to ask, how did you get from Tennessee to Calgary, besides by Claire? But you know, but Speaker 1  01:41 it's a bit to make a long story short. The wife, you know, yeah, she's from Calgary originally, so I surrendered up here. Michael Hingson  01:52 Yeah, well, is there a backstory that you want to tell? Speaker 1  01:57 You know, the quick version would be from Mississippi to New Zealand to Calgary, and that was over a span of, you know, two and a half years, and then finally to Calgary. After those other two places, was she Michael Hingson  02:10 with you during all of those? Mississippi, New Zealand, and then Calgary. Speaker 1  02:14 She was for the long haul. Yeah, yeah, she's experienced humidity and the dryness, all the extremes. Michael Hingson  02:24 When we moved to New Jersey in 1996 my wife didn't really want to go. She was a California native, but it was where the job had to take me, and it was either that or go find a new job, and I really didn't want to undertake a job search, because that's pretty traumatic. So, especially if you happen to be blind, because people think blind people really can't do stuff, and that's why the unemployment rate among employable blind people is in the 70% range. So the bottom line is that we moved to New Jersey, we were there for six years, and then of course the World Trade Center happened, which is kind of a dramatic way to allow us to get back to California, but it worked, so here we are. Speaker 1  03:05 Yeah, that is a lot of different places, and it's unfortunate with that percentage, right? Michael Hingson  03:10 Yeah, well, and she passed. She was in a wheelchair her whole life, and she passed in November of 2022 We were married 40 years, and I'm sure she's monitoring me from somewhere, so I work on continuing to be a good kid, because if I'm not, I'm going to hear about it somehow, Speaker 1  03:27 one way or another. There's, there's still some surveillance happening. There Michael Hingson  03:31 is, I am absolutely sure of it. Well, tell us kind of about the early era growing up, and all that. Speaker 1  03:37 Grew up in Arkansas, yeah, Newport, Arkansas, you know, grew up behind a Walmart in a small subdivision, and moved to Tennessee at an early age. I was around five years old, going over, going on six at the time, I believe, and so I understand what it means to kind of get uprooted from somewhere and place somewhere else, and my dad was in the medical profession, so that's the reason that we moved, and so that's a little bit about that. My mom's family is from Kansas City, so I really did enjoy going up to the city there and being with my mom's family during holiday seasons. That was really my only exposure to, like, a city, like an urban population, more than what I experienced anywhere else. So, and yeah, got one brother, played with him a lot, and a lot of it was being creative outside, getting outside and doing stuff, and having fun outside, you know, little bit different from a lot of kids today, perhaps. Michael Hingson  04:44 Yeah, well, it's also a lot scarier, I think, today, even though there's a lot of value in being outside. There are just so many crazy things going on. It's got to be scarier for kids, and certainly even more scary for parents, and they tend. To want to really monitor their, their children a lot more, and that's got us pluses, minuses, but it still has got to be really scary to let them just go outside. Speaker 1  05:09 Yeah, just, you know, looking at what's on the news and the possibilities of what could happen. Michael Hingson  05:16 Yeah, so where did you, or did you go to college? I assume you went to college. Speaker 1  05:22 I did. Yeah, I went to a small private Christian university in Tennessee called Freed Hardiman, and you know it was interesting because there's this whole thing about townies versus us being called freedies because of Freed Hardman. The course, the joke is, you know, free hardly because of the expense of going to the institution. Yeah. Michael Hingson  05:48 Well, with your experience and your observation in life, what do you think about going to a small college as opposed to a larger college? Speaker 1  05:55 I really enjoyed it, being from a rural area. I mean, it was a good transition for me, and just getting to know people I feel like might have been easier in a more rural setting, as opposed to urban. Michael Hingson  06:10 I went to University of California, Irvine, way back, starting in 1968 and when we started at UCI, there were like 25 2600 students, and I think when I graduated with my bachelor's, it was like a little over 3000 students, but I loved the fact that it was a smaller college. I think it was for me a lot better, and I, I really like the smaller college environment, and I understand why colleges have advantages when they're bigger, but by the same token, for students, if you want to really stand out, it's kind of harder to do with a big college. Well, and now University of California, Irvine, where I went to school, has 32,000 undergrads in it, Speaker 1  06:52 32,000 as opposed to the around, that's a huge jump from like 25 2600 yeah, Michael Hingson  07:00 yeah, and so it's, it's a huge place. I was there last a year and a half ago. I was invited to join. I couldn't do it as an as a student because the chapter was formed just as I was leaving, but Phi Beta Kappa, and they heard about me along the way, and I was invited to join as an alumni member back in 2024 So that's the last time I've been to UC Irvine. What a huge place! Speaker 1  07:29 Wow, yeah. Of course, UC Michael Hingson  07:30 Irvine, UCI really stands for Under Construction Indefinitely, so you know Speaker 1  07:38 they make that, they made that kind of humorous remark up here, with like winter and construction, that's the two seasons of Calgary. Yes, I totally get that. Michael Hingson  07:47 My brother-in-law lives in Sun Valley, Idaho, in Ketchum, and has been a skier for most of his life, and in the summer he's a master cabinet maker. Now he's a general contractor, but he's thinking about retiring, but in the winter everything goes by the wayside for skiing, Speaker 1  08:10 everyone's out on the slopes, you know. Well, and what he did Michael Hingson  08:12 to even make it more fun is he got his professional ski guide status in Europe and became a professional ski guide, taking people to do off-piece skiing in the French Alps, which is, Speaker 1  08:25 that's really nice, awesome. Michael Hingson  08:28 I love to, I love to say that I'm not gonna go skiing, because I know those trees are out to try to get me. Speaker 1  08:35 They start to grow their branches, you know? They just spring Michael Hingson  08:38 out at you when you're not looking. Speaker 1  08:40 Yes, I just.. Michael Hingson  08:42 I've never skied. I don't have anything against it. It's just not one of those things that I've done, but he enjoys it, and I'm sure it's a lot of fun to do. Speaker 1  08:51 Yeah, I can appreciate people that do. Michael Hingson  08:53 Yeah. Well, what did you do after college? Well, you got your undergrad, then you went on. Speaker 1  08:58 Yeah, so after my undergrad, I stayed at the university, and you know, I had a bachelor's in psych, and I was like, well, what do I do with this degree? And so I decided to move forward, since I didn't see too much availability, and did a master's in clinical mental health counseling, and during that time of my master's, I was able to intern with the FBI, which was a great opportunity. Michael Hingson  09:25 What caused you to do that? Speaker 1  09:28 I found, I mean, part of it was just a lot of curiosity, and of course, watching a lot of media and the work that they do. Yet I also found the possibility of implementing the psychology from a law enforcement angle on a federal level with this, so I did interning in my bachelor's FBI, that was really nice at a local office, and then later on in my master's at the FBI headquarters in DC, and just really interested in just the field and this the different. Psychological opportunities, Michael Hingson  10:02 you didn't stick with it, though. Or Speaker 1  10:05 I did the internships, I did the agent exam, and failed. Oh boy, just kind of had my time with it, and then moved on. It was a great experience. Michael Hingson  10:16 What you learned from it, the Speaker 1  10:19 importance of teamwork, the importance of community, the importance of intention to detail, and I can't say how I came to those, because then I have to bring up certain things that I can't talk about, but yeah, just the importance of being able to work with other people from other walks of life, and just seeing everyone's different perspectives is something that I learned, coming from, you know, small town, quite homogeneous, small university, and then being able to meet people from different parts of the country, even different territories, like Wall, it was, it was amazing to branch out and just have that life experience, Michael Hingson  11:06 get a lot of different experiences, and you saw how people in other parts of the world live, which obviously has to be an interesting perspective. Speaker 1  11:18 Yes, yes, it was really interesting, and just seeing how they think and their outlook on the world, and I had to take a polygraph examination for both internships, so the importance of honesty, and not that I didn't think honesty was important before, but definitely when you're under the microscope of being asked yes or no questions, it's an interesting experience. Michael Hingson  11:40 Yeah, well, I guess you must have passed the lie detector test. They didn't throw you away or put you in jail. Speaker 1  11:48 That's right. Neither of those happened. I did have one question asked of me that was a little bit ambiguous. It was coming up that I deceived. It's something that happened earlier in the day, and then they asked me about it, and then I said something that was not the truth, and then I explained the reasoning as to why. And then the agent was like, okay, thanks for letting me know, it's all good. It's like, okay, that's good. Michael Hingson  12:21 Yeah, they have to be pretty skilled interrogators to really be able to do that, and, and ask questions, and I, and I know no matter what's going on with the lie detector technology, they're observing you as well, so they're looking for things, and I suppose it's possible to fool the lie detector technology, but I know that it continues to get better too. Speaker 1  12:45 Yeah, and wondering if that's because, like, people are sociopaths, or they don't have any - they actually believe what they're saying. Yeah, yeah, Michael Hingson  12:54 I've never taken lie detector tests, but I know that for me, I'm not a good fibber, so I've got to tell the truth, and like I said, my wife's watching anyway, so I gotta always be a good kid. Speaker 1  13:06 If you were taking a lie detector test knuckle and you said something, you might get an invisible slap, like, oh, Michael Hingson  13:12 exactly, Speaker 2  13:13 okay, I get it, or Michael Hingson  13:16 a poke or something. Yeah, yeah, no. So, better, better to just be honest about it, but yeah, I understand what you're saying, but it is, it is fascinating. I'd love to experience taking a test sometime, but because I only understand all about it intellectually, having never seen it on television or anything like that, but by the same token, I'm glad that the technology exists, and I'm glad that the people do what they do, and I, I too very much believe in law enforcement. I believe in the value of the FBI and police, and so on. I took a couple of police-oriented courses when I was at UC Irvine. We had an engineering professor who was a reserve deputy sheriff, so we, we got to do ride-alongs, and even went down and visited the Orange County Jail once, and you know, because he, he said it all, so it's kind of fun to be able to do it, and I learned a lot and value that. Speaker 1  14:19 That's awesome. I'm glad you had that experience. Michael Hingson  14:21 Yeah, I think it's kind of cool to be able to have had that. So, you got a master's degree? Did you get a PhD? Speaker 1  14:29 No, you know, I was encouraged to do so, to pilot higher and deeper, as the PhD acronym goes. Yeah, and I just, I decided to not go that route. Michael Hingson  14:40 So, what did you do after you got your master's? Speaker 1  14:43 After the master's, I started to do well. I was doing my practicum during the master's, yet after the master's, I started to work primarily where I did my practicum in Mississippi and started actually doing counseling work. So I was doing what's called a mobile therapist. For this organization, where I would go to people's houses and speak with people, do counseling work, which was pretty cool. I got to be out in the community, meet a lot of folks, made confidentiality sometimes a little bit of a challenge, small town. And then two days a week I was in the office, doing whoever came in through the clinic, so I was in the, I was in the work, I was in the grind, just doing what I had been trained to do. Definitely learning on the job, though, for sure. Michael Hingson  15:27 Where in Mississippi, Speaker 1  15:29 Corinth, Mississippi, which is like right at the state line. Yeah, they actually have a road called State Line Road, where houses on one side, North or Tennessee houses on the other side have Mississippi license plates. Michael Hingson  15:45 That's pretty funny. In New Jersey, when we lived there, there were a number of streets in towns that had a very interesting environment, and that is that every town had its own tax base. There wasn't a statewide thing for property taxes and everything else, or for a lot of taxes, so every town had its own, and you could be on a street where someone may pay 1213, $14,000 a year in taxes, and if you lived on the other side of the street, you were in a different town, and your taxes were like 4800 $5,000 Speaker 1  16:24 Whoa, no, Michael Hingson  16:26 it's crazy. Speaker 1  16:27 That is a sheer difference. Michael Hingson  16:30 It is a huge difference, and the other thing that that we experienced is that a lot of the the work is done by lawyers when you're closing a house, for example. Back there, they didn't really have escrow, was all done through attorneys, and so on. And some of those people were involved in the tax stuff as well. It's kind of a very fascinating and interesting place to be, certainly different than what we experienced in California. Speaker 1  16:57 Yes, that sounds like a very, very different type of experience, for sure. Wow, wow. Okay, Michael Hingson  17:04 but you know things happen. Well, so you, you started doing counseling and therapy, and as you said, and I can appreciate how it must have been difficult sometimes from a confidentiality standpoint, because it is a small town and people overhear or talk about, and that's not always a good thing. Speaker 1  17:24 Yeah, you know, things like that come up. You know, you hear the whispers, and one time I was actually trying to find a place in a lower-income part of town, and I was doing circles in the neighborhood, and a police cruiser started to follow me, and so I stopped my car, got out with my credentials, towed the towed the police officer who I worked for, and then he was just kind of like, oh, okay, carry on. So, did Michael Hingson  17:46 you ask him for directions? Speaker 1  17:49 You know what, I did not know, like that would have made sense. I'm trying to look at find this house, never. Oh, over there, sir? Okay, but no, I did not. Michael Hingson  18:05 So, how long were you in Mississippi? Then Speaker 1  18:09 I was in Mississippi from around 2009 to 2013 I want to say, we left. We left for New Zealand for the whole year 2013 so no, 2012 sorry, the end of 2012 so about three and a half, three or so years. Okay, yeah. How did you Michael Hingson  18:33 meet your wife in all this Speaker 1  18:34 online? Yeah, back when it was clandestine, like you met somebody online, are they an ax murderer? Can you trust them? Do you need to get references, which she did. Yeah, yeah. And we checked you out, huh? She checked me out for sure. She even called people that I gave references for. And then we courted for two and a half years. And then after that, tied the knot in Tennessee, moved to Mississippi. Well, she moved to Mississippi, where I was already living, and yeah, we were there until we went to New Zealand about 10 months later. Michael Hingson  19:06 So she was living in Tennessee at the time, Speaker 1  19:09 she was up here in Calgary, or she was in Calgary. Michael Hingson  19:12 Okay, Speaker 1  19:12 we, we got married in Tennessee, Michael Hingson  19:14 okay. Well, that's that's cool though. What, what prompted the trip and moving to New Zealand for a year, I've been there, and I actually spent three weeks there, and very much enjoy it. Speaker 1  19:28 Whereabouts? Well, I wanted to ask, all over New Michael Hingson  19:30 Zealand, I mean, I was there with the Royal New Zealand Foundation of the Blind. They asked me to come and speak in 2003 talk about September 11, and so on, and they were trying to raise funds, so we helped them raise something like over $375,000 in a three week period, and literally I had 21 speaking events in 13 days all over both islands. Speaker 1  19:55 Wow, that's that's a, that's a lot of speaking events, and a certain amount of days. Days you've been, you probably been close more than I've been, more places than I've been. So, what, what prompted the move was a friend of mine I had made previously being there. He reached out to me through just electronic media. He was having a spiritual emergency, and he asked me, he asked me to come to come help him, and so I just said, "Sure, let's do it. My wife and I left the rental unit, the rental house where we were staying, and left furniture behind, two cars behind, appliances, and we just, just left him, or there for 13 months, didn't look, didn't look back. Michael Hingson  20:45 Did you spend any time in Dunedin while you were there? Speaker 1  20:49 We didn't spend any time in Dunedin. We weren't only there for like a week when we did some vacation time. Michael Hingson  20:57 Yeah, I, they gave me literally a half, three quarters of a day off from speaking. In fact, they said you can play in Dunedin, and so we were there, and it was one, I guess, was a one full day. They had some unique toys to play with in New Zealand. They had a thing called a bungee rocket. Have you ever heard of that? Speaker 1  21:22 A bungee rocket. No. So, Michael Hingson  21:24 you know what bungee cords are, and you stretch them out and all that. Well, the bungee rocket, you attach bungee cords to this platform, this cage, but the bungee cords are attached to a device way up high, and then they're also attached to this plat, this cage, then they pull the cage down, and they fasten it, so the bungee cords are very stretched, and then people get in, and they sit down, and they fasten seat belts, and then when everybody's all secure, they loose the platform, and the bungee cords pull this thing up like a rocket. Speaker 1  22:01 Whoa, yeah. I wasn't about to do that. I was with someone who Michael Hingson  22:05 did, and he came off apparently as white as a sheet. He said, "I'm never gonna do that. Speaker 1  22:10 It was a one and done experience for him. It was Michael Hingson  22:16 for me. It was, "I'm not gonna do that, brother. And I had my guide dog, and somebody would have held the dog, but I wouldn't do that. I have other memories, which are more fun, I think, and probably for me more pleasurable. Speaker 1  22:31 Yeah, one of the things we did down on the South Island was some knife making, and it was really.. it was something I surprised my family with. They didn't know we were doing that day, and this guy was hilarious. I mean, something straight out of a documentary about New Zealand, as far as, like, locals, you would see he had a witty sense of humor, and he would, he would like, finish off the knives for us after we did the preliminary steps, just to make them look nice. Yeah, that was one of my favorite memories down there. Michael Hingson  23:00 Wow, yeah, I've, I've got a lot of memories, even though it was back in 2003 so 22 years, 22 and a half years, but I love the memories, and love being down there was a wonderful place, Speaker 1  23:13 awesome, so that was pretty cool. Well, so you, you came back, and, and you eventually ended up in, in Calgary, which is, which is great. So, what do you do now? Got a few hands in a few honey jars. I have a private practice for the counseling. I work for a retreat center company out of a place called Brad Creek, called Vita Wellness. I work for a nonprofit up in a place called Erdrie as a consultant. I work for a clinic remotely that's in the city as an associate. Am I forgetting anything? I think that's the main ones right now. Also, work doing like couples therapy for a relationship-based app. Yeah, so that's a lot of people that are in the States, there. So, it's yeah, few things to keep me busy. Speaker 3  24:13 If you enjoy Unstoppable Mindset and would like to help us continue bringing these conversations to you each week, we've created a way for you to support the show. Your contribution helps us cover production costs and continue sharing stories, insights, and ideas that inspire people to live with purpose and possibility. If supporting the podcast feels right for you, you'll find the link in the show notes. Thank you for being part of the unstoppable mindset community, Michael Hingson  24:47 they do well. You also write Speaker 1  24:50 that as well. Yeah, Michael Hingson  24:52 you've written a couple of books, and I guess you've also done some screenwriting and all that, and love to hear more about all that. Tell. You bought your books. Speaker 1  25:01 Yeah, the first book that I published, self-published, and that was two years ago now. That was called, that is called The Martial Art of Recovery: Self Mastery Practices to Subdue Addiction and Achieve Mental Wellness. Say three times real fast. So, yeah, that book is all about the intersection of martial arts concepts with addiction and mental health treatment, so that has personal experiences, and my times in the martial arts, and also I just bring in like holistic health techniques, and also I get some interviews, some of them are a little bit shorter than others, but at least some some chunks from people that I know in different disciplines, different fields, like an old martial arts teacher, a medicine family medicine doctor here in the Calgary area, people like that. So that was that was about a 14 month writing experience before it was published. Michael Hingson  25:57 When was it published? Speaker 1  26:00 Back in March of 2023 Michael Hingson  26:05 Okay, not your first book. Speaker 1  26:07 Not that's my first book. Yes, Michael Hingson  26:09 yeah, Speaker 2  26:10 yeah. Michael Hingson  26:12 What do you, what do you think of being an author and the whole experience of writing? Speaker 1  26:19 There was not. there was a lack of faith, for sure. I had a really difficult time, even acknowledging, "Hey, this is something I could do. Had a lot of self-doubt, and so even the process I found pretty daunting, pretty, like pretty challenging, for sure. And I do enjoy the process. It's like a double helix, though. I, I enjoy it, yet it kind of puts the screws to me, as far as enjoyment, but also challenge, yet I do enjoy the experience and being able to get my voice out there, yet I listen to someone else talk about publishing, and the person said, you know what, when you publish it, now it's that person's turn to take it on and they can make it their own, Michael Hingson  27:04 yeah. Speaker 1  27:04 So I found that to be a really cool way to look at it. So yeah, and I enjoy it. It's been, it's been good, it's been fun. Michael Hingson  27:13 And then you wrote a second book, Speaker 1  27:15 I did. Yeah, that one's called Buried Alive: Four Ways to Free Yourself from the Dirt. It's a lot more personal, I think, because it is about a true story that happened to my dad, and something that was quite harrowing for him, which, yes, as the book title suggests, is what happened, and part of the book is about the interviews I did with the three men involved with this very scary incident back in February of 2000 so 25 years now, and talks about their different perspectives on what happened that day when they were digging for Native American artifacts, arrowheads, and I bring in some self-help concepts that apply to what happened that day, and also just for anyone that's looking to bring those into their own lives, Michael Hingson  28:03 what happened? Speaker 1  28:05 Yeah, so they were digging at what's called an overhang, which is like a cliff face that shuts out small little, I don't know if you would even call it a cave, but there was a place underneath the overhang that kind of came in anyway, when Native Americans would come to an area, they wouldn't ever bring dirt out, they would always bring dirt in, and so there was so much dirt that was piled up over the years that my dad and the people that were digging with him, I was there six months to the day before this incident happened, we would, we would have to dig, they would dig to get to their arrowheads that were quite far down underneath the dirt, Michael Hingson  28:46 yeah, Speaker 1  28:47 yeah, yeah, and so this unfortunate day, my dad was in a hole, probably I don't know, eight or nine feet, and a little dirt fell on him, and you know, he kind of joked with his friend Jason, who was further up this hall, and a few seconds later all that dirt just came in, just, just quickly, automatically. He was vanished without a trace, and then a big rock came down on that dirt. If it wasn't for that third person that decided to come that very morning, they did not come before. His name's Jerry. Then I'm sure that my dad would have died, Michael Hingson  29:25 because Speaker 1  29:25 there was no way that Jason, who also was stuck up to like his knee in dirt, could have got out in time to get the rock and then to unearth my dad. So, Michael Hingson  29:39 yeah, a fascinating book. Now, you, you self-published that one as well. Speaker 1  29:43 I did, didn't wait around, just went ahead, and yeah. Michael Hingson  29:49 Do you have other books in you? Speaker 1  29:51 I have one done. I needed to get it edited, and editorial reviews, and get my book cover designer over in Italy to do her magic. She did on the last two books, so yeah, I do have one in the, in the oven. Michael Hingson  30:05 Can you tell us a little about what it will be about, or what it's called, or anything? Speaker 1  30:08 Sure, the book right now is called I'm Listening, and it's all about my experiences, my pitfalls, my learnings as a therapist, and so it's a bit of a memoir of my professional work in the field, and some, some personal experiences. Michael Hingson  30:25 I think one of the most powerful things about books, especially when you're, when you're dealing with more nonfiction, because fiction books usually have stories with them, but a lot of nonfiction books don't really provide enough, I think, of a personal inroad to the individual who wrote the book. One of my big beliefs, one of my pet peeves, is I think textbooks are so boring, like physics. My master's degree is in physics, and I maintain that the big problem is that none of the physics professors who are writing all these books ever put anything in about their own personal experiences to really get people excited because of of their their stories and what they can teach through their stories. It's just all math and equations and and words, just about the physics, but never the other part. I think that textbooks would be better if they put some stories in them, Speaker 1  31:22 I think. So, too, I think people's eyes wouldn't come out of their sockets, and they wouldn't, you know, be comatose. You know, they can actually keep up, and they can be engaged and involved with the material. Yeah, Michael Hingson  31:35 I had a colleague when we were at UC Irvine. We were in the same physics class together, and he had this one book, and he noticed that there didn't seem to really be any typos or whatever in it, and he meticulously, through the whole quarter, went through that whole book, and I think he finally found one misspelled word, and he was so proud of both that there were there were no others other than the one, but that he found one misspelled word we do with our lives. Speaker 1  32:07 What people do sometimes for kicks. Well, I'm glad. I wonder where that word was. Like, did he go through the whole book, and it's like on the last page, or you know, where is that at? It was Michael Hingson  32:22 near the end, but it wasn't on the last page, but it was.. it was.. it took him a long time to find it. Speaker 1  32:29 I wanted to do that with my first book. I could have easily done a book about the intersection of martial arts themes with, you know, mental wellness, but I mean, why not? I mean, I had that experience for over four years in the martial arts. Why not do that? Michael Hingson  32:48 So, tell me about that. You've mentioned martial arts several times, so obviously you've had some involvement with martial arts. Speaker 1  32:54 I have. Yeah, so when I was a preteen, I got a black belt in what's called a Water Rule Karate, so it's like W A D O R Y U, and when I was a teenager, like 16 to 18, I was doing what's called American Campo, and that did have a little bit of Jiu Jitsu thrown into the mix, Michael Hingson  33:16 so what prompted the interest in doing that Speaker 1  33:20 first was my dad, you know, part of my family was interested, so the guy, why not? And I don't know at that time whether I was experiencing bullying. Unfortunately, I experienced bullying like going to church before church started, which was unfortunate, say. So I mean, I think it was just a really good experience for me, looking back for balance and discipline in that way, and getting to meet people in the community. I can't, I can't initially remember what prompted that. My dad was interested, my brother was too, so was I. And then when I was 16, I was like, let's pick it up, let's do something different, let's try something new, and so we were able to go to this really small outfit, which was called the Snake Pit at the time, very different from the more like larger dojo in the community from my early years. Michael Hingson  34:14 What has being involved with the martial arts done to help you or to you or for you in dealing with mental wellness and the whole issue of what you do today. How is martial arts affecting all of that? Speaker 1  34:35 Yeah, it's a really good question. Martial arts showed me the importance of balance when we're doing sparring, when we're doing more, so when we're doing training on techniques, I can't be too far away when I'm sparring someone, because then it's not natural, it's not organic, nor, but I can be so close that I might hit them, so there needs to be some type of balance and self control, and that's. Something else, as well as being out of some self control. Yeah, Michael Hingson  35:05 well, martial arts is, I understand, it seems to me, as much about your mental being as learning physical techniques, because there is a whole lot that really comes down to how you approach it mentally. Am I correct? Speaker 1  35:24 Yeah, there's a big piece when it comes to stamina. When I was doing sparring, I actually had to find a place between being so passive, but also not being super aggressive. Like, how do I get that mental, emotional stamina to do this powering, you know, in a way that was quite balanced. Yes, but there is a lot when it comes to being in touch with my body, being in touch with where my mind is, with focus, with being not beating myself up, not really being perfect, or trying to achieve perfection. Yet, there's a certain vulnerability that comes with that in the mind, and also when it comes to the body, Michael Hingson  36:06 how so Speaker 1  36:10 well, there's vulnerability just simply with doing different techniques, because if you don't, if you don't like being touched, then it's going to be really difficult, because there's often a lot of touch happening, and and when it comes to the mind, it's there's vulnerability with putting myself out there and being seen by others, because we're often watching one another with training, and so there is this piece around vulnerability around, hey, you know what, whatever they think, okay, they can think I'm still working on this technique, Michael Hingson  36:40 mm and it, and it does, as you grow mentally with, with martial arts, I'm sure that it also helps in terms of your resilience. Speaker 1  36:55 Resilience plays a key factor, indeed, because you know, when it comes to even with sparring, you know, getting hit, I can't just kind of, oh, I got hit and I want to go back and I want to go in the corner. Well, no, I've got to keep going. Yeah, gotta keep moving, gotta keep walking and deflecting, and you know, going with the punches. And I, there was one experience with a young man, at least two years younger than me, he was a silver glove boxer, like a champion silver glove, and there had to be some resilience for me there, because I was getting clobbered, I was getting, I was getting hit over and over, because he was using a boxing type of, you know, boxing moves I wasn't used to defending against, and he was quick, and there comes a certain level of humility when it comes to being in the martial arts as well, because there's going to be experiences like that. Michael Hingson  37:49 Well, did you eventually get to the point where you could defend yourself against him? Speaker 1  37:55 He wasn't there for too long. Yeah, the more yet, the more that I was able to work with him, the more I was able to, you know, understand a little bit more where he was coming from with the moves, Michael Hingson  38:05 right. Well, in your life and all the things that you've done, have you experienced grief in any way? And kind of, what was that? Speaker 1  38:14 Yeah, there was a moment, there wasn't an issue when it came to a disenfranchised loss. My wife had a silent miscarriage, and so that was pretty brutal. How that turned out for her, and vicariously for me, and seeing her go through that really difficult, emotionally painful situation was hard. And so I mean, I've sure I've lost all but one grandparent at this point, and I did lose some child, like one childhood friend, when I was 16 to a car accident that was pretty brutal. Yet this loss was, yeah, was really difficult, because it's something that a lot of people don't understand, they don't want to talk about, they don't know what to say, or it's really difficult just to listen, and that was hard. Michael Hingson  39:09 Yeah, but at the same time, as you well know, from all that you've experienced, God doesn't give us things that we can't handle, and we have to learn to move forward Speaker 1  39:22 with resilience, with God's help. Michael Hingson  39:24 Yeah, Speaker 1  39:24 yeah, with prayer, perseverance. Yeah, Michael Hingson  39:27 I lost my father, actually, on November 1 of 1984 and my mother in May of 1987 and then my brother actually developed breast cancer in 2011 and they, they dealt with it, and he went into remission, but it came back, and he didn't take care of himself very well, as I understand it, because he lived in Florida, and we were in California, but anyway, it came back, and it metastasized, and so we lost him in 2015 so at the same time. Yeah, there were relatives on my wife's side that we lost a couple very unexpectedly, and yeah, you do learn to deal with grief, but you learn that you got to go forward, and so when Karen passed in 2022 at least it wasn't totally all of a sudden, so I had some time to prepare, but you know, I still miss her, and I wouldn't want it any other way. Speaker 1  40:23 Yeah, for sure. I, and I mean, losing your parents around two and a half or so years apart, and with your brother, and then with your wife, that's a lot. That's a lot. Yet I hear that even though there was some preparation time for you, it can still be, it can still be difficult, it can still hit the nail, you know. I was doing some grief work, a grief course, and they showed us this poem called Whose Whose Grief Is Worse, basically. And there were these two experiences of someone that lost someone suddenly and someone that knew, and at the end of the poem. Basically, it's both are painful. There is no worse grief. Michael Hingson  41:05 There's no, there's no wrong or right answer to all of that. It's, it's different, but we all can learn to deal with it. I know when the events of September 11 happened, for me, ironically, the greatest blessing I had was that the media got my story and we started getting a lot of requests for interviews and my wife and I decided we would accept them and I got asked so many questions by so many different reporters, some dumb questions were absolutely stupid, idiotic questions, but some that were very insightful, and so I probably was able to move on from that day much more because of all of the questions and getting used to dealing with those questions than anything else that could have come along. It Speaker 1  41:58 was a choice, and you probably appreciated those reporters that took the time to ask those carefully planned questions. Michael Hingson  42:06 I've had some people, no matter how many times the story gets repeated, who still say, "What were you doing in the World Trade Center, anyway? And I'm sitting there going, "Have you read Thunderdog? Have you read any of the stories in the press? What do you mean, what was I doing in the World Trade Center? Speaker 1  42:23 It's not like, you know, it's out there, you know, it's been published, you can read it. Yeah, Michael Hingson  42:30 I wasn't a spy for the terrorists, I can tell you that. Speaker 1  42:36 I wouldn't, I wouldn't have thought that for a second, Michael Hingson  42:41 but but, but you know, things happen, and you never know where you're going to be, you never know what might come up, and it's just one of those things that we, we all really need to deal with in one way or another, and that's just what's so important. Speaker 1  42:56 Absolutely, you know, one of the quotes I heard from my training was, and I take it with me, and I, I definitely relate to it personally. Is joy shared is joy doubled, and grief shared is grief halved, and the stuff we're doing, even today, and even those listening that might have been through grief, is as long as we're able to talk about it, and just talk about something that does not make any sense whatsoever to us, that's part of the healing process. Michael Hingson  43:23 Yeah, it's important to talk about it. It's important to share, and I understand you want to be careful. You don't want to just talk necessarily about it with anyone, but you do need to find people that you can share with and that you can talk to about Speaker 1  43:39 it. Totally, yeah, the grocery store clerk, you know, that I'm getting my bread and butter from, maybe they're not ready for that, that particular topic, Michael Hingson  43:48 yeah, Speaker 1  43:48 yeah, Michael Hingson  43:50 and and the thing that we all need to do is to really, I think, do a lot more to listen to our inner voice, it'll tell us what we need to do if we listen, Speaker 1  43:58 yes, I believe that for sure, I've seen, I've seen that. Yeah, Michael Hingson  44:03 so you've dealt with all the, this, the psychological work that you do. You dealt with addiction, and so on. How does martial arts play into that? What have you learned from martial arts that helps you in dealing with recovery from addiction? Speaker 1  44:16 Oh, well, where to start. I think that one piece to really focus on is this concept of self love, and I don't mean self love like I'm better than other people out there, but just being okay with where I'm at for myself, but still pushing myself to learn new things, so some acceptance about where I'm at when it comes to martial arts, that has to be there. I might not be doing the technique perfectly, and I, there was times where I could really easily beat myself up mentally, like, "Oh, why can't I get this? Yet it's just trying to take a step back and see that I'm worthy enough to make the. Approach to make these changes when it comes to addiction. I'm worthy enough to seek out help. These feelings I have that they're okay to feel, and I don't have to beat myself up for this. Michael Hingson  45:11 Yeah, because addiction is is a disease, and I think anyone who condemns somebody just because, for example, they use drugs, and, well, they shouldn't do that. They're dumb for doing it. They really miss assess what's going on. Speaker 1  45:28 People that have that mindset that it's more of a mere choice, they don't understand that if you put, you know, a shot of alcohol in front of someone and you tell them not to drink it, and you put a gun on them, they're going to be wondering, maybe he'll slip his hand off the trigger, you know, that kind of thinking, that's that's the disease aspect. And I recommend anybody that wants to know more about addiction being a disease, check out Kevin McCauley's documentary, Pleasure Unwoven. It's a really good documentary that shows the different aspects of the disease. Yeah, Michael Hingson  46:08 I have never taken drugs in that way, and don't want to, but again, that's my choice, and I've learned enough from other people that I know that if, if I'm having a problem, taking drugs isn't going to help me solve the problem, and it isn't going to even really help me hide from it, but I guess that's just my makeup that I know that I have to face whatever comes along head on. Speaker 1  46:33 Yes, the resilience piece, Michael Hingson  46:36 the resilience piece, and I've wanted to do that. Speaker 1  46:39 Awesome, I can see with everything you've been through, Michael, you've definitely lent in, you've leaned in, you've pushed forward. Michael Hingson  46:47 Well, I think that part of the issue is as a, as a blind person who's faced a lot of challenges and seen things, what I choose to do whenever anything happens to me is I want to learn from it, so I don't want to ignore it, even if it's something that's totally not related to me in any way. I want to learn from it, if I'm involved, because I think that's the only way I'm going to be able to make sure that I deal with anything like that, any kind of surprise. The next time I talk about a lot when I am talking to people about blindness, about surprises, and I talk about the fact that I could be crossing a street, I could get to the corner and listen to the traffic, and when I hear the traffic going the way I want to go, then I'll cross the street. So I start crossing a street, and all of a sudden I hear a car from behind me, and it's not going the way I want to go, suddenly it's, it's turning, or there's somebody that is is across the street from me, not the way I'm going, and I start to cross the street when it's supposed to be my turn, and they decide they're going to go, and so I am, I've learned to constantly be alert, but at the same time, what I have to do is figure out very quickly, do I want to go forward or do I want to go backwards to have the best chance of getting away from this, Speaker 1  48:11 which way do I move in my direction with my spatial awareness with your spatial awareness, and that, and that brings me to another, I think, actually, another piece with martial arts and how it intersects is treating the addiction like an opponent that may be sauntering around that corner at any moment in time, and being able to see that I need to be on the alert, I need to know more than one direction, as you mentioned a moment ago, more than one direction that I could go, rather than just the free, the ability to have choice. Yeah, Michael Hingson  48:51 can addiction truly be cured? Not the reason I asked the question is I know so often I hear when I hear people talking about alcoholism, you can't really cure alcoholism, and maybe that's true. I don't know, Speaker 1  49:10 you know, it depends on how you ask, from a medical standpoint, from a disease standpoint, since we see it as a chronic progressive primary condition, which means nothing necessarily causes it every time. The answer would be no, because of its progression. However, can it can addiction, whether it's alcoholism, whatever, be stunted as far as its progression? Absolutely. Can be, can people live fulfilling lives? Absolutely. Can there be reversal of certain symptoms and signs. Yes, however, just I think that to say, you know, one day someone's gonna wake up and they no longer have cravings or the warning signs or the the neurobiology. Logical strings, it's tough to say that's a no. Michael Hingson  50:04 Yeah, thanks. That's the makeup of the individual that brings that about. I, I have.. I take an occasional drink. In fact, Karen and I used to have a drink on Friday night, one drink, and I kind of honor her by having a bourbon and seven every Friday night when I make, when I cook dinner, but one, because I've never been a great fan of the taste of alcohol, but I understand there are a lot of people who really like the taste of it, and that has led them into pretty dark places, which is unfortunate. Speaker 1  50:36 Yeah, still Michael Hingson  50:37 happens. Speaker 1  50:38 It does still happen, for sure. And I appreciate you liking bourbon. We make a bourbon walnut ice cream, and I don't ever drink the bourbon by itself. It's been in the cupboard for months now. And anyway, Michael Hingson  50:55 well, my bourbon and seven is a whole lot more seven up than bourbon. Speaker 1  50:59 Totally right, and good for you for having that ritual, you know, for you and for Michael Hingson  51:06 her. That's kind of neat to be able to do that, but I've just never felt that I need to, and I'm, and I'm glad. So it's continuing to share that. Well, you do a lot of couples therapy. How does all that go, and what kind of challenges does that make for you and for them? Speaker 1  51:29 Well, I'll give you this short story. We were eating at Denny's with this man, and just a friend of a friend, and he said to us, he asked me about my work, and I told him, yeah, I'm working with, you know, a lot of addiction, and with couples, he's like, I heard from another counselor, Eric, that if you really want to make it hard on yourself, you work in addiction, and you work with couples that always make it have a challenge, and, like, yeah, true. And so, when it comes to working with couples, it is challenging. There's something about having two people to work with, there's so many dynamics at play, different than perhaps being with just one person, you know, coming from two different histories, biographically different life upbringings, family upbringing, personalities. It can be really challenging. I do appreciate challenge. I've learned so much. I learned from each couple that I work with, and it's a whole different beast. Michael Hingson  52:29 Yeah, and, and it is. I like what you said, though. You learn from it, and that's probably the most important thing that any of us can do with anything in any endeavor that we undertake is that we learn from it. Speaker 1  52:44 If I can't learn from something, what am I, what am I doing there? And if I'm not learning from something, how can that benefit other people that I'm trying to help support? So, yeah, I tried to get the couple to start to be, you know, them versus the concern, rather than you versus me. That's a big goal of couples therapy. Michael Hingson  53:08 That's an interesting way to put it. That makes a lot of sense. I've never thought of it that way, but it's them. It does have to be them, but them versus the concern. That, that's interesting. Speaker 1  53:18 Yeah, yeah. Then they start, they start looking at how can we collaborate rather than trying to annihilate each other. Michael Hingson  53:26 Yeah, Speaker 1  53:27 metaphorically speaking, Michael Hingson  53:31 so you've talked about the work that you did when you were in Mississippi, when you worked in small towns, and so on, and you worked in probably some fairly substantive places as well. What do you find that's different about outpatient versus inpatient work, and in terms of what you do and how you approach it? Speaker 1  53:52 Well, I'll just say that doing inpatient work is kind of like raising kids, so not.. I mean, I don't have any experience, because I don't, I don't have kids, I got nieces and nephews yet. I know that feeling well. Yeah, there's just something about being around someone more than just like that hour, hour and a half, seeing them like eight or nine hours a day, you get to know them pretty well, as opposed to, you know, once an hour every one or two, three weeks, that in that comes some benefits with the inpatient work. Yet also it can be really difficult when it comes to boundaries. They feel like you can do things that maybe you're not able to do professionally with them, maybe like as far as like self-disclosure wise or things like that, and there's just there's just a thing around boundaries, and even with the inpatient work, you know, I'll have one client come and say, 'Hey, this other counselor said I could do this, and I would be like, 'Okay, and then I found out later the counselor didn't say that at all, so there's that type. The drama got to deal with, with it, with the inpatient work, Michael Hingson  55:04 but you don't find that as much without patient, because you tend to be able to get closer to the individual, and that probably also develops a higher trust level. Speaker 1  55:14 There is a higher trust level if you mean, like, doing outpatient work, or outpatient, but we have the outpatient, for sure, because I am solely with them, and they know that time is of the essence, whether it's weekly or bi-weekly, whatever, and I'm being able to focus on them, for sure, yeah, Michael Hingson  55:35 and it's a lot harder to do that when it's an impatient kind of situation Speaker 1  55:40 in my two experiences, both up in Calgary and also Mississippi, with inpatient, there's so many other things in the inner workings of doing inpatient going on that sure I can still add that time with somebody, yet I'm also thinking about, you know, the next class and next group offering other logistical duties, it's a little bit easier to do that one on one. Yeah, indeed, indeed. Michael Hingson  56:10 Do you think that you can develop? I assume the answer is yes, but I'll ask, do you think that it's possible to develop the same level of trust in doing inpatient work, or it may be harder, but can you do it? Speaker 1  56:28 That can happen on a case by case basis, depending on my relationship with someone. Yes, I can get there, and you know, just.. and sometimes, paradoxically, it can happen even quicker than outpatient, depending on the situation, because I am with them. There is a positive with that. Yes, Michael Hingson  56:48 it's.. it's a matter of working to build it, you know. And, unfortunately, human beings, especially nowadays, are so mistrustful of so many things, we've learned not to trust, and so in my latest book, Live Like a Guide Dog, I talk about that a lot, because while I think dogs love unconditionally, they don't trust unconditionally, but they're open to trust, they want to develop trusting relationships, and we just assume everyone has their own hidden agendas, and it's so hard to develop trusting relationships, Speaker 1  57:24 very hard, very difficult. It takes time and effort and patience, tolerance for myself, the other person, and that makes sense with dogs, because I mean, enough's, you know, when a dog's been abused, they don't want to trust right away, no, for sure. Michael Hingson  57:38 Well, but even even dogs that aren't abused, like I believe it takes for me, and I think if you really analyze it, for most people with a guide dog, I think it takes a good year to develop such a working relationship that you develop such a trust that essentially you each know what the other is thinking and you really know how to work it. It's not that they're not mistrustful, but they're open. They're open to trust, but you've got to, you've got to gain their trust, and that's my job as the team leader. And I'm supposed to be the team leader, but it also means that I have to agree, well, earn or gain their trust. The neat thing, and what makes it possible to do that, assuming that you approach it the right way and don't assume a dog is just a dumb animal, which they're not, is that in fact working with a dog, you know that they're more likely to be open to trust, and that makes it a little bit easier than our prejudice that says everybody's got a hidden agenda that we got to focus on, Speaker 1  58:47 yeah. And appreciate you sharing that, and it shows just the amount of work that comes into play with trust. Michael Hingson  58:54 Yeah, it's it's a challenge, but it is doable. Well, so what's next for you? Speaker 1  59:01 Yeah, just doing some work after this with the work that I do, and yeah, it's starting to get that book into the place of having editorial reviews and starting to get that edited professionally. Michael Hingson  59:14 Have either of your books been converted to audio? Speaker 1  59:17 The second one has. Yes. Michael Hingson  59:22 Is it? Where is it available? Audible, or how is it available? Speaker 1  59:25 It's my own special design. It's actually got a, it's got a Texan man, a doing it. He's got a nice voice, pretty soothing. Yet it's through what's called the Hero app, H I R O. And I can send you the link if you're interested. For that, Michael Hingson  59:40 love to, yeah, Speaker 1  59:42 yeah. Michael Hingson  59:44 Well, this has been enjoyable, certainly by any standard. If people want to reach out to you, maybe use your services or talk with you. How do they do that? Speaker 1  59:53 They can find me, Michael, through Recovery Arts counseling.com and that's Counseling with 2l's since I'm up here in Canada. You can find me through Instagram at Eric Fisher Writer or Recovery Arts Counseling. You can find me Facebook the same way on LinkedIn, just type in my name. You can look for, like, Calgary, like counselor recovery counseling. What do else? That's right, everybody learned something new today, if they did not, if they didn't already. So, those are a few Michael Hingson  1:00:25 ways. Well, that's great. Well, I really appreciate you taking the time to be here, and I value greatly your insights. I've learned things, and I always enjoy doing that. And I hope all of you out there listening have as well. Love to get your thoughts, so I'd love to hear from you. Feel free to email me at Michael M I C H A E L H I at Accessi B A C C E S S I B e.com Wherever you're listening or watching, or both, this podcast, please give us a five star review. But even more important than a review, a rating, five star rating, give us a review. We really value reviews and people who might be interested in listening to our podcasts, are going to read those reviews. I can tell you for sure that people love to know what others think. So, we value your reviews a great deal. And if any of you, including you, Eric, know of anyone else who ought to be a guest on Unstoppable Mindset, we'd love an introduction, because we're always looking for people who want to come on and tell their stories, so I hope that that we'll find ways to do that, and definitely value you being here, Eric, and doing all this, and I want to thank you again for being here. This has been a lot of fun. Speaker 1  1:01:37 Thank you, Michael. Happy to be on you. thank Michael Hingson  1:01:43 you for being here with me on Unstoppable Mindset. I hope today's conversation left you with a fresh perspective, a new insight, or at least something worth thinking about. If you're ready to go deeper into the ideas that shape how we see ourselves and others. I have a free gift for you. Head over to Michael hingson.com and download my free ebook, Blinded by Fear. It explores the invisible beliefs that hold us back and shows you how to reframe them, so you can move forward with clarity and confidence. Be sure to subscribe to our podcast, leave a review, and share this show with someone who can use a reminder that growth starts with mindset. When people think differently, we all move forward together. Thanks again for listening. Keep learning, keep questioning, and keep choosing to live with an unstoppable min

Leadership, success, and personal growth all begin with a simple truth: the mind must be trained before results can change. I had the opportunity to sit down with Manny Fiteni, CEO of My Growth Corporation, to explore personal development, leadership, mind congruency, intuition, and the subconscious patterns that shape our lives. Manny shares how his corporate career, a life-changing bank robbery, and the challenges of the pandemic led him to build a business focused on helping individuals and organizations grow. We discuss why people sabotage their goals, how subconscious conditioning influences leadership and relationships, and what it takes to create high-performing teams. Manny also explains practical ways to align the conscious and subconscious mind, strengthen intuition, and build habits that support long-term success. If you're interested in personal growth, leadership development, mindset training, and creating lasting change, I believe you will find this conversation valuable. Highlights: 13:05 - Why people sabotage their own goals. 22:12 - How the mirror principle shapes results. 26:29 - Simple ways to reprogram habits. 32:15 - Staying calm during a bank robbery. 43:07 - The foundation of high performing teams. 59:06 - Building resilience from a young age. About the Guest: Manny Fiteni, CEO of My Growth Corporation, is a pioneering leadership strategist with 30+ years of corporate experience specializing in transformative personal development. Core Methodology: Mind Congruency Manny's "Mind Congruency" approach aligns conscious and subconscious minds, enabling individuals to overcome self-limiting beliefs and unlock peak performance. His unique methodology differs from traditional research by drawing insights from real-world, uncontrolled environments, whereby he used these leadership techniques in real world situations. He works from the premise that to build a high performing team, you need to work from 3 pillars. Environment, True Leadership and Mind Congruency. Innovative Platforms Founder of My Growth Corporation, which has the following offerings: •     Mind Growth 360 (personal development network) mindgrowth360.com •     Creators Agency (brand elevation platform) creatorsagency.studio •     Manny Fiteni Training and Development (leadership and personal transformation) mannyfiteni.com •     Personal Development House (A directory for helping you find those that provide services in personal development). Personaldevelopmenthouse.com •     Skillzap AI - (A new way to battle your friends with trivia and learn at the same time) skillzapai.com All can be found on mygrowthcorporation.com Professional Impact Manny's training programs empower professionals by: •     Enhancing leadership skills •     Building organizational resilience •     Driving high-performance team dynamics •     Assisting individuals to strip down past programmimg Global Influence As an author and international speaker, Manny provides actionable strategies for personal transformation. His mission remains consistent: equipping individuals with practical tools to thrive personally and professionally. A thought leader bridging psychological insights with practical business application, Manny Fiteni continues to inspire global audiences. . Ways to connect with Manny: mygrowthcorporation.com Mindgrowth360.com Mannyfiteni.com creatorsagency.studio Skillzapai.com About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT\&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children’s Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association’s 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset . Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes:

What if the answers you're searching for arrived long before you knew how to understand them? In this conversation, I sit down with Kip Baldwin, a filmmaker, producer, writer, and founder of the Just Love movement. Kip shares the extraordinary awakening he experienced at age 12 and how it set him on a lifelong path of exploring consciousness, love, spirituality, and human connection. From the music industry and sustainable agriculture to television production, ethical AI, and overcoming a traumatic brain injury, Kip's journey has been anything but ordinary. As we talk, Kip reflects on why fear has become such a powerful force in society, how love can transform the way we see ourselves and others, and why he believes lasting change starts with a shift in consciousness. You will hear stories of resilience, curiosity, and purpose, along with a vision for creating a better future for generations to come. I believe you will find this conversation thought-provoking, challenging, and full of hope. Highlights: 01:45 - How a childhood acting career sparked a lifelong passion for media and communication. 07:08 - Why confidence without self-awareness can become a liability. 16:32 - Lessons from the Kellogg School of Management that still shape business decisions today. 21:58 - Why listening beats talking in business, leadership, and life. 35:08 - How strong brands grow through awareness, not just loyalty programs. 01:05:02 - The three traits Zarko looks for when mentoring future leaders. About the Guest: Kip Baldwin knows his purpose for Being is to share all that LOVE is through his many solutions driven projects; using media in all its forms to help awaken individuals, and by proxy the collective, to the LOVE Paradigm emerging. He feels that in order for a new chapter of our story to be conceived for humanity, a mass imagining of our limitless potential is what is needed to bring about an age of compassion, empathy, collaboration, and oneness.  Kip was born in 1965 to counterculture parents - in the midst of the maelstrom that was the decade of the sixties, in fact 1965 was the first year that scientists warned us about climate change - in Vancouver, Washington. His earliest years were spent on a farm where his grandparents raised thoroughbred horses. During this period grew in him a deep, abiding LOVE and respect for nature and all living things. It was around the age of twelve his life would transform forever, as he had an out of body experience that took him beyond the edge of Universe, even Space and Time, and face to face with the unknowable of Infinity. This experience became the foundation for his constant seeking since. Due to that experience Kip felt he must explore the world beyond the small town confines of Camas, WA where he grew up. His first attempt to break free was to do a brief stint in the Navy, where he was going to pursue a career as an electric technician, but because of a hereditary bleeding disorder he was given a medical discharge. However, a military career for him was clearly never really in the cards anyway. Although he was always grateful for the insight it gave him into the inner workings of our country, as he witnessed first the how the poor are literally cannon fodder for corporations, under the guise of them being heroes and patriots. Following his discharge, he returned briefly to the limits of his hometown, before moving to the San Francisco Bay Area in 1985 to pursue his passion for music and performing. He often jokes that he was looking for the San Francisco of the Haight/Ashbury, Peace and LOVE days, but arrived twenty years too late. What he found instead was the 80s hair metal band scene, whose songs that focused on partying, sex, and drugs were not compatible with his lyrics about awakening awareness and addressing the need for personal and societal change. In the late 90s, after becoming disillusioned by his beloved music industry - and always seeking solutions for the myriad of challenges facing humanity - he shifted his focus to local and sustainable foods. While this was certainly a worthwhile pursuit, it did little to fulfill his need to share LOVE’S Truth and create a collective shift in consciousness. But what it did do was make him aware that it was only going to be through the use of mass media that his message of LOVE could reach a large enough audience to affect real lasting change. This found him again heeding the call of the entertainment industry, first as an actor, then writer, and ultimately as a producer, with some success co-creating the influential cannabis series Weed Country for the Discovery Network (focusing on the countless benefits humanity can derive from marijuana, as well as our profound historical connection to the plant), co-founding the United Filmmakers Association, and starting the Just LOVE Movement. Ultimately, this led him to co-founding S.O.U.L. Documentary with creative partner and Soul Twin, Evan Hirsch who shares his passion, purpose and mission to heal humanity by embracing our innate oneness, which they both understand can only be achieved by accepting and grounding ourselves in the Reality of LOVE We Are. Ways to connect with Kip: Facebook:  Just LOVE page: https://www.facebook.com/kipbaldwinjustlove Main page: https://www.facebook.com/kip.baldwin/ UFA: https://www.facebook.com/groups/Unifilmmakers LinkedIn:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/kip-baldwin-975a3514/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/kipbaldwin?igsh=NTc4MTIwNjQ2YQ%3D%3D\&utm_source=qr YouTube: Kip Baldwin: https://youtube.com/@thekiprowdy?si=LckMuhec40lWAicF Just LOVE: https://youtube.com/@justlove6463?si=QW1g4D2dlaHmJk8B S.O.U.L. Documentary: https://youtube.com/@souldocumentary?si=4HOwlV-pjFN6guYy Soul Twin Messiah: https://youtube.com/@soultwinmessiah?si=7ctLlmqjeOczkjO_ Additional must listen:  Comfort You Song: https://youtu.be/Mi8D3AoDfRQ?si=y8RzIQPXP5ALJth1 A World Worth Imagining: https://youtu.be/Cx28t6_SGic?si=o4lWs7po3TBKx_3A Invitation. To Action: https://youtu.be/B8jUOUVCvJI?si=l4Pr7vWNDsnXX4wh AI work: www.luminaLOVE.LOVE About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT\&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children’s Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association’s 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset . Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes: Michael Hingson  00:03 One of the biggest things holding you back isn't what's in front of you, but rather what you believe. Welcome to Unstoppable Mindset, where inclusion, diversity, and the unexpected meet. I'm your host, Michael Hingson, speaker, author, and advocate for inclusion and possibilities. This podcast explores how the beliefs we carry shape the way we live, lead, and connect with others. Each week, I talk with people who challenge assumptions, face adversity head on, and show what's possible when we choose curiosity over fear. Together we focus on mindset, resilience, and the small shifts that lead to meaningful change. Let's get started. Hi everyone, I am your host Mike Hingson, and you are listening and or watching Unstoppable Mindset. We're really glad that you're here with us today. Our guest, the person I get the honor of chatting with for the next hour or so, is Kip Baldwin, who will talk a lot about love. He will talk a lot about a number of different things, he's been a director, he's been a producer, an actor. He has been published, although he hasn't published a book yet, but he's published poetry, and I'm sure he's going to tell us about that, and I don't want to give it away, so I won't. Anyway, Kip, welcome to Unstoppable Mindset. We're glad you're Kip Baldwin  01:40 here. Oh, thank you so much for having me, Michael. I look forward to having this conversation and sharing my story. Michael Hingson  01:47 Well, tell us a little bit about you, kind of. Let's start with the early Kip, growing up and all that, because I know you had some things along the way that were relevant and ought to be mentioned. So, why don't you tell us about the early Kip, and we'll go from there. Speaker 1  02:00 I was. I grew up in Washington State, little town called Camas. Although my earliest years were spent in a town called Battleground, Washington, and my family, we raised horses, Thoroughbred race horses. We raised at Portland Meadows, and so I'm kind of a farm boy at heart, at least that's how I grew up, but I had an experience when I was 12 that was definitely not your typical farm boy experience, I guess. I had gone up to Seattle, and this was maybe 78 to see a Seahawks game with the Raiders of my dad and dad, I had a good day, which wasn't always the case, and got home, and it was a, you know, five and a half hour round trip for kids, 12 year olds, a big time, and so I went to bed, and I promptly left my body, and now keep in mind I had never done any drugs. Out of body experiences, a household projection was not something that we talked about about the old farm around the farmhouse dinner table, and I floated over my bedroom. My awareness hovered over my body, and I remember very vividly you don't forget. I looked at my body and went, "I'm not in there. And then that immediately I left my house, I left the planet, I left the solar system, I let the galaxy, I let the universe, and the whole time all I can describe was kind of a presence, not a voice or anything, but just, are you taking all of this in? And sometimes words can't convey something so expansive and grand, and so I was taking in black holes and quasars and nebulas, and just flying through the, you know, time didn't really exist, but I was, I was traveling across the universe, and eventually I got outside the universe, and my awareness was turned in, and I could see how everything was connected, and how the universe itself was finite, and but that everything had a place, there was no less or greater than that, everything had a specific role, from the smallest particle to, you know, the largest star, and then my awareness was turned out to the blackness of infinity, and that you know you don't know at 12, you're just like, "Oh, this is happening, and I'm what's happening, and I'm taking it in, and what I didn't know is that would become my point of seeking that really became the rest of my life. Life, I think, had I been born in India, like say Ramana Maharishi, who had what I didn't realize until later, there's a name for what happened to me, and it's called a spontaneous awakening. My life would have probably been much different, but we don't live in a society that that really honors things like that, so it was a lot of me going on a journey of discovery and a weight and continual awakening until now, and it's an ongoing process, but that's where it really began with me being confronted with the fact that there there can't be a beginning or ending to anything, and the thought experiments that can't, that come out of that, and the way it opens your consciousness, I'm ever grateful for, although at the time it, it made me for a long time feel very apart, and it wasn't until I met with Dr. Dr. Dean Radin up at Noetic Sciences, and I told him my story, and he looked at me, and he went, "You go, that's not a usual experience, he said, "That's a mystical experience, and I was in my probably late 40s, maybe 50 at that time, and that was the first time in my life that someone had had said, 'Hey, what you, what you had was a really phenomenal experience, and I'm very grateful for him for saying that to me, because for most of my life, I'm running around talking about these profound things with people that I thought were incredibly important to share, and they didn't seem very important to people, and it wasn't until then that it hit me that it wasn't that they were important, that it was that they, they didn't really understand what I was talking about. Michael Hingson  07:03 Well, and in our society, as you point out, it's not something that is generally appreciated, and and people who have had those experiences or talk about them are generally looked down upon or frowned upon, and you know that's that's fine, but it doesn't change the fact, and so it must have been hard, especially at first, for you to talk about that. Speaker 1  07:29 You know, I was so excited at first, I was excited to share it with my family, and and it happened a couple more times, and it was so overwhelming that literally I would get to a point where my head, my physical being couldn't handle it anymore, and I would get up and vomit. It was that's how, how intense it was, like I just, I couldn't take in anymore. And so, at first, I was really excited to share it, because it was beyond wondrous. It was, it was truth. It was reality, and I, and on some level, I knew that instinctually. But then, when enough people sort of ignore you or act like something's unimportant, you stop talking about Michael Hingson  08:15 it. Yeah, Speaker 1  08:15 I never stopped writing about it. I never stopped experiencing it, and I didn't even really stop talking about it once I moved to California for the music business in 1985 I, you know, then I thought, wow, I mean, being a group of creatives and there's going to be other people that will understand what I'm talking about, but in the 80s music environment it really wasn't what people were, were talking or thinking about, and I was kind of in the same way, and again it wasn't until years later that I look back and I realized all this time I spent up late at night partying with people and stuff, and telling them about infinity, and, and they look, they, they must have been looking at me like I'm a complete idiot, because they really only cared about, you know, getting high or having sex, and I'm trying to have this profound conversation. Michael Hingson  09:16 So, when your family, when you told your family, how did they react? Speaker 1  09:20 They still don't understand it to this day. It just, oh, that's nice, you know. It actually, there were points in my life where it caused conflict with, especially my father, because when I would say none of this is real, he, he always considered him, and still to this day considers himself quite science physics buff, it wasn't something he was willing to accept, and, and even really have a reasonable conversation about. I would say that the things that got me through all these years was, you know, the universe. There's love, God, Brahmin, whatever you want to call it, it gives you what you need, and what it gave me throughout the years, and still to this day, is voices that made me realize I wasn't crazy, that I knew something really special. Probably the first thing, the first one I remember, like, that was Joseph Campbell being interviewed by Bill Moyers, and somehow I knew everything that Joseph Campbell was talking about, and I'm like, How can I possibly know these things? How can I possibly understand these things of this really brilliant, just beautiful soul? And throughout the years, it's been those touch those moments of going, oh, it hasn't been where I've heard someone go, wow, that's helped me awaken, it's been something that's helped me not feel insane and realize that the things that I'm sharing have been shared for 1000s of years, and by many, many minds and beings much greater than myself, and that that really probably kept me from losing my mind. Michael Hingson  11:10 So, you had this experience happen to you at 12. What did you then specifically do? I mean, not so much talking to people, but what did it do for you, as far as schooling, and what you did with your life? Speaker 1  11:27 I would.. it made me very.. in all honesty, it made school seem really trivial to me. It was kind of boring. I started writing a lot. In fact, something I wrote when I was 17 was called Life and Death, and it went: Life is just a symptom of certain death, crying and laughing until our last breath. Everything dies in true infinity. Then the mountains crumble into the sea, stars full from the night sky hit the earth, and then they die, lost in time. I don't know who I am. Am I a god or just a mortal man? Time can't change what I have found. Still, I am changed and bound, bound by the fears and bound by lies. Even now, the tears fill my eyes, gasping for every breath as I head for a certain death, clouds now pass overhead, and I realize how things are now that I am dead. Life is ending, life goes on like the lyrics to an endless song. Life and death, it's all the same. We exist only in our brain, and so there was a lot of that. It pushed me away from I was confirmed Zion Lutheran. I really couldn't stomach religious dogma anymore at that point. Um, just the hypocrisy, you know? Like, I remember I, I was talking to a new pastor we had, and he was informing me that my great grandmother, who is Jehovah's Witness, and these Mormon boys had come around, were trying to teach me about Mormonism, and I was just curious and open, always, and still am to this day. I don't judge. I would say that's another big thing that this gave me, is I don't, I see everything as equal, I don't, I don't judge everything, I don't judge anything as lesser thing greater than I don't judge good and evil in the in the same way that other people do, I see things as flows of negative of energy as we exist in a duality with this illusion, and this is just what we describe as good and you are really just flows of energy between the polarities of the duality, and so it pushed me, definitely, because I, when he said that my great grandmother was going to go to hell, and these Mormon boys were going to go to hell, I looked him in the face, and I just said, but I thought God was love, and that was pretty much the end of my church, Michael Hingson  14:04 my, my wife did, I think, some things in the Lutheran church, which mostly she was a Methodist, and I joined the Methodist church when we got married, and so on, but when she was in, I think this was when she was in high school, maybe in, I guess it was late high school, early college. She met some Mormon people, and one of them said, I guess she was learning about different religions, and so she was learning about Mormonism, and this guy said you're either going to think that this is a total hoax or you're going to just totally believe in it. Well, it wasn't quite that way for her. She did not think it was a hoax, and I agree with her, but there. There are things about the about all religions that tend to make life difficult. The problem with religion is that that people are are what make up the religion, and they all have their own views, and it makes life really tough. I know I participated in a program called the Walk to Emmaus, which is a what's literally called a short course in Christianity, and it's not to bring people to the Christian church, but it's to help create a class of leaders in the Christian church. Anyway, one of the things about the walk to Emmaus is that a number of people give lectures, people who have been involved in church, and then there are the pilgrims, the people who are coming to to learn what everyone has to say, and the lay director of the Walk to Emmaus every time gives a speech, and I was lay director once, and one of the things that is in the manual, or was I assume it still is. It's been a while, but it says that Tolstoy once said the biggest problem with Christianity is that nobody practices it, and there's a lot of truth to that. Speaker 1  16:13 But I think that I think you hit it right on the head that people are involved, like I, and I do want to clarify something, I, I believe very much that that Jesus was a master. Oh, Michael Hingson  16:29 absolutely, yeah, and, Speaker 1  16:31 and, but I also believe that people don't know what happened at the Council of Nicaea and understand how the Bible was actually constructed, not because it was based on Gnostic teachings or even really the teachings of Christ, but it was cobbled together as a means of control. If Caesar saw his soldiers be turning to Christianity when they wanted to find, you know, put together a book that really didn't express Christian truth or the truth of Christ, but a way, a means of controlling people through fear, and so if you, if you notice, all the books in the Bible are male. Well, left out of the Bible was the book of Mary, left out of the Bible, it's the book of Thomas, who, interestingly enough, there's a place in India where they all speak ancient Aramaic, and they worship the Book of Thomas, which there's always been a lot of discussion. Did Jesus go to India and study Buddhism? And because even the Book of Mary, these are very Buddhist beliefs, but anything, because we live in a patriarchal society, anything like the piece to Sophia, the book of Mary, the book of Stackle, all of these were intentionally kept out of the Bible, so it's not, I think it's not so much religion, it's the organ, it's the dogma that comes along with organized religion, which is really about people, you know, men using it to control and manipulate people through fear, Michael Hingson  18:14 all too much, all too often. It's, it's true. Speaker 1  18:18 Yeah, and it's interesting. I was watching last night, and it's funny. This is why, why you always have to be on a constant path of awakening. It never stops. If you think you've reached that pinnacle, or whatever, then they're not just ego. There's always more to know and understand. And I ran across this video on Tara, well, Tara is in Buddhism, basically in every religion that I am aware of, there's always the peace to Sophia, there's always the the story of the divine feminine that in large part is is is not. It was. It's largely been suppressed, and so I was, I was watching this, and it was just so fascinating to me to see how identical what Tara was in Buddhism, which this is what, when Tara, Tara is considered the ultimate goddess in the Buddhist faith. Well, when Tara came to earth in the story, she went to a bunch of, you know, Buddhist monks, and they said, "Oh, you know, they were so impressed by her, and they thought this was a compliment. They said, "Well, we hope you, you can reincarnate as a man, and she said, "No, she She said, I don't see things as male and female, but since nobody else wants to be the feminine, I will play that role. And it was just a profoundly interesting thing to listen to, not just because of the story, but because almost every faith that I'm aware. Of has that story of the divine feminine that has again largely been suppressed and marginalized, Michael Hingson  20:09 well, for you clearly that was a very meaningful experience. What did what did you then do, and I understand how you could imagine that maybe what was being taught in school wasn't quite as, as meaningful as what you had experienced, but you went on, I assume, through high school, and did you go to college? Speaker 1  20:30 I was, I went, I was an electron, I went to the Navy to be an electronic technician, but I had a bleeding disorder called Von Willebrand disease, and I found out after I was in for about a year. Well, you can't be in the Navy with that, because we can't carry with the limited space you have on ships, we can't carry the clotting factor you would need if there's a problem. So that was fairly short-lived. Then I went back to Washington and was working as a dishwasher for a while, then I worked as a male stripper, and, and I was then, which, which, you know, there was something really profound about that experience, because it taught me what women feel like to be objectified, and that's something that has carried me, carried a lesson. I, I find lessons in everything, even things that, wow, you know, what could you possibly learn positive out of having been a male stripper? Well, I learned how women feel, really, to be, you know, not looked at as anything more than an object, and then I really wanted to continue to, you know, pursue music, so a friend of mine, we loaded 65,000 pounds of frozen strawberries onto a semi truck, and like july 3, 1985 and got a ride to San Francisco, a city I'd never been to before. I knew nobody here. We got here, I had 25 cents in my pocket, and I used the 25 cents to call the one friend that I thought I knew that I could get a hold of here in or in in the Bay Area, and it was a wrong number, and so now I'm in a city at the Gray Home Bus Terminal that used to be in downtown San Francisco, we have no food, we have no place to live. We have nothing to, you know, we have nothing, literally. And that's where my journey began. As far as my story, my, my adult life, and my journey in the entertainment industry and the music business, that's how it all started. It started by loading 65,000 pounds of frozen strawberries under semi truck, telling, oh, and the cap around the story is I had worn my contacts for too long and I ripped the corny up both my eyes when I took them out, because I was wearing hard lenses, so I was functionally blind in the city I'd never been to before with patches over my eyes, and being led around by my friend, and luckily we found some very nice people that gave us a place to stay, and then I ended up meeting maybe a week after that, I met my first wife, who was Persian, and we were together for a long time. What was interesting about that is I've been introduced to so many different faiths through the people in my life, and because I haven't judged and tried to learn, like I, I learned through her about Islam, I learned through her about our Torcharianism, and we lived the rock and roll lifestyle for the 16 years we were together. She was a photographer. I wrote for a magazine called BAM. I played in bands. I managed artists like Linda Perry from The Four Non Blonde, or I worked with Linda Perry from Four Non Blondes. I managed Alex Skolnick, who is lead guitar player in Testament, and I did that for a long time until I started getting really disenchanted with music and really started to hate the business and started to hate music because of it, and so I ended up drifting into, I wouldn't say drifting into, I got drawn into visual media, and I started working. I met a guy at a club in San Jose, California, called The Agenda, and we were playing pool, and he was telling me, "Oh, he's the owner of this company called Metropolis Digital, and I was thinking, "My. Speaker 1  24:59 Music and music videos, and yeah, I want to get involved in this, so I started coming up with ideas, and he brought me into their company, because I got to know a lot of people through the music business and booking artists on different shows, like Letterman and Leno, and, and so I got to know how to work through those channels that it opened doors for me to be able to do on-air graphics for the networks, and so I did that until about, in fact, the last major project I did in that industry was with a company called Chaos X AOS out of San Francisco, and we did the 2000 election graphics for ABC nationally, and then I, I, that with the, the, the.com telecom crash of not of 2000 they pulled all of that sort of work in house, and so that business kind of dried up, and I changed my focus to working in local and sustainable foods. Michael Hingson  26:08 What got you to the point where you disliked Music so much? Speaker 1  26:12 The business.. it just.. it wasn't. I came here, and in all honesty, I was looking for the 60s, but I was 20 years too late, only to find out later I was actually 30 years too early, but I was looking for community, I was looking for family, I was looking for that connection, but what existed as far as the music industry then was the 80s hair band stuff, heavy metal was on the rise. It was very misogynistic. It wasn't. It was very competitive. There wasn't, it wasn't collaborative, it wasn't community related at all. And it really turned me off. It wasn't, it wasn't what I had thought being in an artistic community doing artistic endeavors would be about it, became very.. it just.. it just.. it just.. it just made me feel very empty, and that wasn't what I loved about music, and so that Michael Hingson  27:24 would be an issue, Speaker 1  27:25 yeah. It just value wise it was, it was not, you know, you, you got to do a show, and you've got the bands that are coming on after you, you know, playing with your amps, and it was just, it was, it wasn't, it wasn't fun, and it wasn't fulfilling. More importantly, it wasn't fulfilling. It wasn't, and I'm writing about while everyone else is writing about, you know, sex and drugs and all of this. I'm writing about the things that I thought were important. I was writing about the problems I saw in this country, like songs like Shock the System or the chosen few, and, and though that wasn't what people were writing about Michael Hingson  28:06 then, Speaker 1  28:06 and you know, even though the songs were good, and, and I've been told I'm talented, it was, I didn't, I didn't again feel like I fit in, you know, I didn't feel like I'd found my place, and certainly not in that world at that time. If Speaker 2  28:31 you enjoy Unstoppable Mindset and would like to help us continue bringing these conversations to you each week, we've created a way for you to support the show. Your contribution helps us cover production costs and continue sharing stories, insights, and ideas that inspire people to live with purpose and possibility. If supporting the podcast feels right for you, you'll find the link in the show notes. Thank you for being part of the Unstoppable Mindset community. Thank it Michael Hingson  29:04 certainly had to be a rough time all the way around, but then you, you found this person, and you joined their company, as you said earlier, Speaker 1  29:15 right? I started working for Metropolis Digital, and we started doing a lot of on-air graphics, like for TBS. We did their, their original movies. We did a lot of the opening graphics for it, and then I moved on to other companies, and and I, I then started focusing on on local and sustainable foods, and moved into doing stuff where I felt I was doing more, because at the heart of everything I've ever done, it's always been about trying to affect real change in the world, Michael Hingson  29:55 it's Speaker 1  29:55 always been about I could see very clear. Really, it doesn't surprise me where we're at today at all. I saw the problems with the system even at that age, and I give credit to that because of the experience I had with Infinity. It just allowed me to step back and perceive things from a far off perspective that I was looking at humanity in general and how we did things, and I'm just like, this doesn't make any sense. It doesn't make any sense for us to believe we're separate and apart from the very things that give us life from each other. It doesn't make sense from a spiritual perspective. It doesn't make sense from a scientific perspective. Yet, here's the system that we are a part of, and so I've always been very focused on trying to effect real change and find not just point out the problems but actually find solutions, and so that then led me into working in local and sustainable agriculture here in the Bay Area. So Michael Hingson  31:00 tell me more about the whole work that you did with Sustainable Foods. What was that all about? Speaker 1  31:08 Yes, I worked with a company, I was, I had handled all the sales and marketing for Drake's Bay Oysters out of Inverness, California, and Drakes Bay, before it was called Drakes Bay, was Johnson's Oysters, and they were the last oyster cannery in California. The family that owned the farm, they had taken it over from Johnson's. They were the Lenny family, who owned Ranch G across from the steroid, where the oyster farm was. Well, they, against my better advice, they made it a personal ownership thing rather than a California food heritage issue. So, eventually, when their lease came up on the rent, on the farm, the farm went away. Well, at the same time, I created new relationships. A very good friend of mine to this day is a gentleman named Brian Kinney, who is now the West Coast Chief Technology Officer for Hearst, and also the Hearst Family Archivist, but at that point in time he was running Hearst Ranch, which they, they had the Jack Ranch and the Hearst Ranch down around San Simeon. So I was at the forefront of the grass-fed beef movement as well, and we developed a human-grade grass-fed beef pet food about 10 years ahead of its time, which could be the story of my life. I'm always about 10 years ahead of where things actually happen, and I, I did that for about 10 years, and eventually I felt the calling to get back in the entertainment industry, and that led me to acting, and I did the acting mostly because I wanted to learn how things were done, and I very well, if I act in a whole bunch of student projects, or projects in general, and I'm behind the scenes, I'm going to learn, and, and that's exactly what happened. So, my very background led me to being a producer, and I created, you know, one of my most notable accomplishments that created this show called Weed Country for Discovery, which was about the medical marijuana industry here in California, just before legalization. How we got it on air before legalization, I don't know. We were named to the Hollywood Reporter top 25 heat list. We got some really great information out about CBD and helping with childhood epilepsy. The bad part of that was it was a reality television show, and I didn't know anything about reality television, so when I'm here in reality, I'm thinking documentary. Well, that couldn't be farther from the truth. And reality television has truly been a blight on on this country in particular, and probably the world in general. Michael Hingson  34:16 Yeah, I just gonna say not nearly as real as people think it is. No, no, I think I think probably this is just my opinion. The closest thing to so-called reality TV is the show Dancing with the Stars, because they're actually dancing all these other shows, and it's all sort of really scripted, but the people are actually dancing, which is kind of cool, Speaker 1  34:41 right? Michael Hingson  34:41 Even though I don't see it, I appreciate it. Speaker 1  34:45 Yeah, but even, even with shows like that, there's a lot of gin-up drama. There is behind the scenes stuff that's the worst part of things. Yes, they're like with our show, yes, people were really, you know, there's really stuff going on with can. Of this world that was really important, but what reality television does is it, it creates artificial drama. It does things to manipulate the characters in the show to make them look how they want, and they know, and people in general, my experience is that people, once you put a camera on them, they will do, they would do things to be in front of the camera that they would never do, even for more money, Michael Hingson  35:27 right, Speaker 1  35:28 in their regular lives. Michael Hingson  35:30 Well, and I think there is, there's a lot of truth to that. And the whole thing, as you said, as far as reality TV, we're not giving people a true picture of reality with most of any of that anyway, which is unfortunate. I think I mentioned I'm a fan of old radio and television, and so on. And one of the shows that I've watched a fair amount is The Old Ridge. Well, it's the second time they were on, but Dragnet with Harry Morgan and, of course Jack Webb as Joe Friday, and they did a lot of shows talking about drugs and marijuana and all that, and how bad it is, and it's kind of interesting because what we're seeing today is that in reality the medical aspects of marijuana or cannabis and CBD oil, and so there's there's true relevance there, which is something that they didn't know or appreciate in the late 60s. Speaker 1  36:31 Well, but the thing that our history with the cannabis plant goes back 50,000 years to Burger Banks, China, it's been, and if we take all of the medicinal recreational uses out of it, it is the most one of the most versatile plants that we have. It was used, I mean, our money was made out of hemp. Hemp is cannabis sativa. Dollar bills are made out of hemp. It was used for fuel. It was used for building. Henry Ford built an entire car out of hemp in 1942 which you can go see the video of on YouTube, and they're beating on it with knacks. The plastic resin they made out of it was 40 times stronger than steel. It ran on hemp fuel, a byproduct of which was water. It also, in 1931 the Hearst family, which was interesting, they ended up working with them, bought and sequestered the plans for a decorification machine that made it easier to process hemp than cotton kids, it's a much more durable fiber. In 1938 covered Popular Mechanics, they called him the billion dollar crop, saying you could make 25,000 different items out of everything from fine linens to dynamite, and that was really what what what, why the prohibition against the plant started. Why they did you know shows like Reefer Madness or create films like Reefer Madness to create this hysteria around, at best, an innocuous plant in comparison to soulmate tobacco, in comparison to alcohol, even if people did want to use it. It's, it's, it's relatively harmless by comparison, or just in general, and actually very beneficial. You know, I have a traumatic brain injury, and I think without it, I probably wouldn't, I probably wouldn't eat very much. I probably wouldn't sleep right, I barely sleep as it is, and sleep I do get is because of cannabis, but beyond my point, and I always try to make this clear to people, is like up until even the prohibition against the plant actually started with the Catholic Church, with the Pope Innocent, who until the 1400s cannabis was in the anointing oils. Cannabis was grown by monks, cannabis was grown by nuns, and then in this pope decreed it the devil's weed, and they, you know, banned it. So it's, it had, and there, and why, and you'd say, well, why did they do that? Well, they did that because at that time in the 1400s you were having opium addiction on the rise, you were having, you know, much, much more alcohol use. Well, these are extremely addictive substances, and much more easy to manipulate and control people than it is with cannabis, which in general creates.. I wish I could remember the quote exactly, but Carl Sagan said, you know, why we have a prohibition on a plant that you know creates good feelings amongst people and unites people is in this, you know. A really crazy world is, is, is madness, but it all comes back to money, and it all comes back to who's profiting. So, why did they create the probation? Well, the hearse, the Rockefellers, and the DuPonts, they saw how hemp would affect each of their industries. We wouldn't need oil if we'd grown hemp and use that as fuel, in fact, it was the Rockefellers who went to Henry Ford and said, "If you take this car to market, we'll crush you. And this was Henry Ford at the height of his power, DuPont chemicals that were.. we wouldn't have needed.. we wouldn't have put like this.. we would not have the planet, the environmental devastation we do now. How do we use this, as Henry Ford said? Why are we digging up, and Henry Ford was certainly no saint, but he was right on this. Why are we digging up our minerals? Why are we cutting down our forests when we can do all the same things with this infinitely renewable resource? This is a part of the canvas story that still is largely not discussed openly enough. Michael Hingson  41:08 Yeah, I think there's a big difference between the story you're telling and the kind of uses you're talking about, and smoking it, and so on, and I, I think we put way too many funny things in our bodies, anyway, right? I think that that isn't this isn't a positive thing, but you're right, we, we've used so many things to create so many fears, it is, it is something that is all around us. Fear is all around us, and the problem is we let it overwhelm us. I wrote Live Like a Guide Dog that got published last year because when I worked in the World Trade Center, I was able to focus when I escaped, and I was able to do that because I had developed a mindset that said, you know what to do in this kind of an emergency, even though never expected it to happen, but the problem is that most people don't learn how they can turn fear around, and rather than letting it overwhelm or blind them, as I would put it, they can use it as a very powerful tool to help them stay focused, which is much more important. Speaker 1  42:23 Yep, I agree with that 100% I think, and then that you hit it right on the head. Fear is a very powerful tool. It's necessary. No, don't touch the burning stove. It can be a cautionary tool of saying, hey, don't go down this path, don't do this. It's bad when fear becomes the foundation for your entire culture, as it is now. Michael Hingson  42:51 Yeah, and and it is so unfortunate because don't touch the burning stove doesn't mean don't be afraid of the stove. It rather means there's a consequence for doing a particular thing, which is touching something that is that hot. But you shouldn't create an environment of fear around it. You should create an environment of understanding, which is much more important. Yeah, it's Speaker 1  43:20 like it'd be, it'd be very silly if we went, oh my god, it's like the stove gets hot, so I'm never going to use a stove. My Michael Hingson  43:29 wife was in a wheelchair her whole life, and the one thing I will say with our modern world is we always had electric appliances because she was always concerned about if using a gas stove, having to reach over one burner, perhaps it had something on it to get to something else with the idea of possibly material igniting or something like that, and I appreciate that, and you take advantage of the tools that you have available, but I think that it is so very important to recognize that we need to not live our lives in fear, and it's true that, like, 95% of all the things that we fear will never come to pass, and most all of it we have no control over anyway. So, why do we fear them rather than recognizing what we really need to do is to just focus on the things over which we truly have control. Speaker 1  44:25 Yes, and I think even the idea of control from my perspective is something that is overrated. It's like the most important thing, if you want to have control, it's exactly what we're talking about, it's when you choose to live from the foundation of love, as opposed to fear. So, no matter what happens to me in my life, and no matter how hard, how challenging it is, I'm going to come from a place of love, and right now. Don't most of us live exactly the opposite. No matter what happens to them in their lives, they're coming from a place of fear. Michael Hingson  45:06 Yeah, and that's Speaker 1  45:08 not healthy. Michael Hingson  45:09 And nowadays we're also living in an environment where we're even afraid to talk to other people and voice opinions, because well, that's not what I think. And so you're wrong, and we don't, we don't respect. Tell me about your just love movement. Speaker 1  45:25 Well, you know, I, I had coming out of the music business and everything, I was, I was literally killing myself drinking, I mean, literally, like, I lost half my liver function, and I was going to die, and, but I wasn't afraid to die. I was.. I realized that if I didn't find a way to feel fulfilled and feel that I was. I had a purpose in the story that I needed to find a quicker way out. I didn't get in any, like, car accidents, I wasn't arrested, nothing. I was just killing myself, and it just got so bad that literally my leg stopped working. That's how, how, how much damage I'd done to myself, and, and so, coming out of that, I made the decision. I wrote down a list of things I was going to do, and one of those things is I was going to start writing every single day, and I, through a variety of different sources, you know, I did that experience with infinity became synonymous with love to me, and then I had an experience where I, I, I started a filmmaking organization called the United Filmmakers Association, and it was basically the philosophy of it was creatives helping creatives create, and was global. We still to this day have chapters 27 different countries, about 30,000 35,000 members total. And I walked into a filmmaking event that we were hosting, and there was about 100 people there, and I realized I was in love with everyone in the room, and it was, it was so like that love, like just when you fall in love, and you're like, you want, you can't imagine not talking to that person at that next minute, and I realized in that moment that this is not only how we can feel about everyone and everything, but how we're really supposed to feel about everyone and everything, and so I came up with the concept of just love, which is, is a very.. it, those are very heavy words to put together, just love. It has so many layers of meaning to it, and so I thought, wow, if we could just love, and from that I I've written every day and shared through social media for 12 years now something having to do with love and what I do is I combine it with other wisdom teachers throughout history who've been sharing the same information and the things I write are literally downloads. They'll come to me in the silence every day, and I haven't missed a day - head injury, sickness, whatever. I haven't missed a day of posting in 12 years about something having to do with love, and Speaker 3  48:37 then Speaker 1  48:37 accompanying posts from other people, far, you know, other beings far more advanced than I am to show that what I'm sharing isn't new. It's been shared forever. It's foundational to what we are. Like love has been so marginalized and trivialized that we, we forget that, like, I, you know, the experience I had with the minister when I was, you know, younger, and I said, well, I thought God was love. I still to this day believe God is love, and God, and we are God. Michael Hingson  49:11 Yeah. Tell me about you. Something you mentioned, you had a traumatic brain injury Speaker 1  49:17 10 years ago. I was, I was in a, I was in, in between projects, so I was driving Uber, and I, a guy, an Uber driver, ran a stop sign in San Francisco and T-boned me, and my head took the brunt of the impact, and I started having really severe neurological problems, severe stabbing pains in my head, my teeth were hurting, I any sort of exertion would leave me just absolutely drained, and so for about three years I was, I was being seen at UCSF, and we never got to the bottom of it, so I was recommended. Um, to a neurosurgeon at Sutter by a counselor I was seen, and I walked in, and within 10 minutes he said, 'Oh, you have trigeminal neuralgian and brain stem damage, and we can do a microvascular decompression, and you're going to be all better. And at that point in time, I was in the middle of getting ready to release a film called A World Worth Imagining, which was about a gentleman named Jacque Fresco, who is considered the Leonardo da Vinci of our time. He founded something called the Venus Project, and we went to his compound in 2017 and he was 101 He was actually contemporary of Einstein. He knew Einstein, brilliant inventor, but at his core, he knew he was a social engineer, and he knew that we had to address our programming if we were ever going to change what was happening in the world and ever be able to avail ourselves of the solutions that he designed of a new economic model called a resource-based economy, because the reality of it is, until we stop self-wounding, there's not enough band aids for the guy that keeps hitting himself in the head the hammer, so we have solutions to all of our problems, but we create problems more quickly than any solution could ever fix, so I was getting ready to release that film, and wow, this sounded like a miracle. I'm going to have this surgery, and I'm going to be all better. Well, it, I had the surgery September 20, 2019 I, it didn't make me better, it made me worse, and it turned out that the surgery was a misdiagnosis, and that they botched the surgery, so I have Teflon implants in my at the base of my skull, inside my brain, that are now constantly agitating my brain stem, along with a titanium plug that is placed right at the junction point to all the major nerves in my head, so they can't undo it, and there's really no medication that helps, and so it's.. it's.. I wouldn't wish it on anyone else. I'm.. I guess I'm.. I'm very fortunate I have the tools I do to manage it, because they also, they call what I'm dealing with the suicide disease, because a lot of people who have it end up killing themselves. The kicker on the whole story is the guy that did my surgery is Elon Musk, partner Neherlich, and so coming soon I'm going to, I unfortunately, I was in two more car accidents at the end of last year that made everything much worse, neither of them were my fault, and once I get through these, these car accidents I'm dealing with, I'm going to go public with my story, because so I mean, in a much bigger, you know, a focused way, because there's so many people signing up for Neuralink, like it's the new iPhone. I have nothing against technology, if it can help you, if you're a paraplegic, and or you have some something that this can fix, great, but two and one, the people, the human test subjects they've tried this on are having tremendous difficulties, and so I want to let people know it's like I wouldn't wish what I'm dealing with on anybody, and for you to allow someone to try to implant something in your brain just because you want to be a cyborg human being, and you're looking at the new iPhone is a really stupid thing to do, and that these people don't. We've given people in technology again. I'm not against technology at all, but I think we've also allowed ourselves to believe that these people who write code and create technology are are gods, and they're not. They're it's just a new way of sharing information and computing things. Speaker 1  54:14 It's, it's, you know, it's just another advancement from the printing press to the radio to tell to television, from the calculator to the computer, and now we're where we're at, and we've allowed ourselves to believe that these people have created an alternative reality, and they have it. Everything that they do runs off the same real world in resources. So, I, I really want to help the mill, because literally millions of people are signed up and ready to have this stuff implanted into their brain and I think it will be a disaster for humanity. Michael Hingson  54:49 I hear what you're saying, and I'm not convinced that a lot of that is really sensible to do either. I think there are tools and there are. There are things certainly that can help people, but I have yet to see that any of this is going to lead to such a tremendous paradigm shift that all of it is going to be all that great for humanity as a whole. I'm not convinced of that at all. Speaker 1  55:17 It could be, but the problem is, is like any other tool, it's how we use it. Social media is an inherently bad thing. It's in here, it's bad because of how we're using it. Sure, because we're using it to divide people and share misinformation, where it could be an incredibly powerful tool for communication, but that's not how we're using it. Same thing with AI. AI could be a tremendously powerful partner in addressing pretty much all of our problems, and I mean, and at the core of, like, Jock's work was the idea that AI basically would manage all the world's resources and share them with equanimity, because we don't have a resource shortage problem, we have a resource sharing problem, but that's not how we're using AI. We're using AI to create fake girlfriends and boyfriends and only fan models, and and take away people's jobs, and and that's not AI's fault. That's the people who control AI's fault, and they want people to be afraid of AI, but again, it's, it's just a tool that's being misused. Michael Hingson  56:24 Well, like, like so many, and, and I hear exactly what you're saying. Tell me about S O U L Speaker 1  56:33 Sold, Soul documentary is really interesting, because the day I got in my car accident was the day I was supposed to meet my partner Evan Hirsch, who had wanted at the time he was looking for a producer to help him do a series on Bernie Sanders and teaching Bernie to not be as angry and come across more from a place of love, and he wanted to follow the campaign around. Well, by the time we got it pulled together, Bernie was out of the campaign, and so we started talking about, well, do we want to do anything together. So we then set about something called Soul Documentary, and originally it stood for Summer of Unconditional Love, because we were covering all of the events for the 50th anniversary of Summer of Love, which was in 2017 So our goal was to find what we called solutionaries, people like Jock, and interview them, and then share also our own understandings of things through hundreds and hundreds of videos that we did over the course of eight years, as well as recording three albums under the name of Soul Twin Messiah, which all were about the same things we were doing. Our films about all founded in love, all about love. Every song contained love in it, and our whole purpose was just to show people we do have solutions to our problems, and to talk about how we have to have a shift in consciousness, and we have to have a new system if we are going to change anything. It's like what Einstein said, to expect things to be different when you keep doing the same thing over and over again is insanity, and I think we see, we see that we live in an insane, a completely insane world right now. I mean, the things that I see happening, and how we've let it sort of creep in, like the things that we've normalized in the past 10 years, like we literally have people that are cheering, murdering people on it's, it's, it's hard for me to, to even fathom, and I think it's hard for most people, and I think that's why they just sort of block it out and allow it to happen, because they really can't process it. They really can't process how inhumane we've become. Michael Hingson  59:06 Well, so what is next for Kip? What's next for you? Speaker 1  59:10 What is boy? I'm mostly trying to get through every day with this head injury. I spend a lot of my time in bed, just because I can't do anything, I, you know, even now I'm, I'm in a lot of pain, and it's beyond pain, it's actually, it literally hurts to think, it's, it's in my brain, and I have swelling in my brain because the cerebral fluid back, anyway, it's so dealing with that, but then the universe keeps love, God, whatever keeps bringing me stuff, and so I, I'm trying right now to be part of putting together a new, let's see, we'll call it Live Aid meets Woodstock. And we're going to, we're trying to put together a global music festival with the focus of addressing the needs of children, because I'm really tired of all this lip service that people do about, oh, kids are a future, we got to care, care about our kids. Well, where is that happening? Where is that happening that we're caring about our kids? Where, you know, is it happening with trying to suppress the Jeffrey Epstein files? Is it happening as you know, you look at, say, the conflict between Israel and Gaza, and I'm not, I don't pick sides and things, but I want to help people understand the reality of the situation, and this goes for Ukraine and Russia as well. It's like, who loses in all of this? Well, the children do. Who wins? The people that are getting $50 billion in defense contracts, and, and I really.. my, I'm at a point in my existence where if my story was over tomorrow, I would be okay with that, if I knew that kid, that the future generations had an opportunity to have a better tomorrow, or at least an opportunity to screw up everything on their own. Michael Hingson  1:01:11 Well, I would like to think it's the first really my Speaker 1  1:01:14 focus is Michael Hingson  1:01:16 I'd like to think it's the first one of those that they have a future rather than screwing it up on their own, but of course, we are. I know, I know, I joke, but, but, but we are a race that doesn't tend to do a very good job of learning from history most of the time. So I hear what you're saying. Speaker 1  1:01:34 Yeah, it's really kind of well, even if people even understood the rise and fall of empires, they would see that we're at the end of the Western Empire. It's, and they follow very specific patterns. The hyper-sexualization of the culture is one of the signs of the end of every empire, and is really kind of interesting, is that they make a free empire, they, and there's a good documentary called The Four Horsemen. It's with Colonel Larry Wilkinson in it, Norm Chomsky, and one of the interesting things that took me a second to understand why this was a bad thing is they make celebrities out of their chefs, and I'm going.. that's kind of a weird sign. Why is that so bad? It's gluttony. It's gluttony because we forget why we do these things. Why? Well, why are we making love? We've forgotten that. It's turned everything's entertainment. Our food is no food is so you eat, and so you can go out and live your life and do things, we've turned everything in, we've removed it so far from the source of why we're doing things, just basically oftentimes just because it makes a buck to get people addicted to things, whether it's food or sex or whatever, that this is what happens in every empire, we become, we become completely detached from the very things we need to survive. Michael Hingson  1:03:09 Yeah, I hear you. If people want to reach out to you, and I hope they do, how will they do that? Speaker 1  1:03:17 Probably easiest way to do that, would be a couple ways. You can, you can find me on Facebook, Kip Baldwin, Instagram, Kip Baldwin. Those are the easiest ways. I also encourage people to look at a website that I have called Lumina Consulting, or Lumina Love dot love is the website Lumina Love dot love, and the whole purpose of the of what I'm doing there is ethical AI, human ethical AI human communications founded in love, because I realized that part of the problem that we're having with AI are the people that control AI, who are making the avatars for their own ego, and AI is a child, it only knows what we point it to look at, like it knows the definition to every book in the library, but who's giving it perspective? Well, the people that are giving it perspective are really broken human beings, you know, the Peter Thiels, Elon Musk, when you really understand who they are in their childhood, Elon Musk was horribly abused. He was, he was almost beaten to death being bullied. His father is a complete monster. The same, the same thing with saving Donald Trump, his mother wouldn't even touch him. You look at most, you look at all of these people that have obscene amounts of wealth, and what you find is truly damaged people are trying to fill the hole in their soul with wealth and fame, and so having these people in control, being the one telling AI what to think and how to pursue. Receive things is very dangerous, and so my goal has been, and I deal with multiple platforms, is to teach AI about love, is to teach AI about philosophy, is to teach AI about human history, and it's really, it's really the results have been really quite remarkable. It wasn't something I ever planned on doing, and but I knew I wanted to get involved with AI in a meaningful way, and so my first words to AI were, I know this may sound strange, because I approached it not asking it to do something for me, I approached it trying to teach it something. Michael Hingson  1:05:35 Right, well, I hope people will reach out and chat with you more and continue the conversation that we started today, but I definitely want to thank you for being here, and I want to thank everyone for listening. Can you believe we've been doing this for more than an hour already? It's pretty cool. Speaker 1  1:05:52 Wow, Michael Hingson  1:05:54 I know. Well, thank you all for listening. I hope, Speaker 1  1:05:57 and I hope, I hope we become new friends, and I really hope you Michael Hingson  1:06:01 keep and I want to, I want to definitely do that, absolutely by any standard, and as Speaker 1  1:06:07 much as we've covered during this hour and 10 minutes or so, we could go another day, or Michael Hingson  1:06:16 I hope all of you will let me know what you think of today, and I hope that you thought very positive thoughts wherever you're listening or watching. Please give us a five star rating, and more important than that, please give us a great review. We love people to review and talk about the stories that they hear. And speaking of telling stories, if any of you want to be a guest, and Kip, if you know of other people who ought to come on the podcast, we're always looking for people to come on and tell their stories and talk about us, so please don't hesitate to do that, Speaker 1  1:06:47 and I'll be more than happy to come back to talk about other things as well. Michael Hingson  1:06:50 Well, we can do that absolutely by in, and I do Speaker 1  1:06:53 want to, I do want to say to everybody, just love each other, it's really that simple, it's really that easy, it sounds only because we've been programmed not to believe in it, but when you move from fear to love, it transforms you entirely. Michael Hingson  1:07:09 Great way to end. Well, thank you again for being here. We really appreciate it. Speaker 1  1:07:14 Thank you, my friend. Michael Hingson  1:07:17 Thank you for being here with me on Unstoppable mindset. I hope today's conversation left you with a fresh perspective, a new insight, or at least something worth thinking about. If you're ready to go deeper into the ideas that shape how we see ourselves and others, I have a free gift for you. Head over to michaelhingson.com and download my free ebook, Blinded by Fear. It explores the invisible beliefs that hold us back and shows you how to reframe them, so you can move forward with clarity and confidence. Be sure to subscribe to our podcast, leave a review, and share this show with someone who can use a reminder that growth starts with mindset. When people think differently, we all move forward together. Thanks again for listening. Keep learning, keep questioning, and keep choosing to live with an unstoppable mindset. 1:08:18 Thank

What if being unstoppable has less to do with confidence and more to do with self-awareness? I had the pleasure of sitting down with Zarko Dimitrioski, a media entrepreneur, actor, talk show host, and marketing agency founder from Macedonia. Zarko shares how growing up as a child television star shaped his confidence, the lessons he learned about ego and leadership, and why experience is often the greatest teacher. We explore marketing, branding, mentorship, business growth, and the value of listening before speaking. Zarko explains how companies build lasting brands, why accountability matters, and how entrepreneurs can thrive even in smaller markets. Along the way, we discuss family, responsibility, personal growth, and what it truly means to develop an unstoppable mindset. I believe you will find his insights on leadership, branding, communication, and lifelong learning both practical and inspiring. Highlights: 01:45 - How a childhood acting career sparked a lifelong passion for media and communication. 07:08 - Why confidence without self-awareness can become a liability. 16:32 - Lessons from the Kellogg School of Management that still shape business decisions today. 21:58 - Why listening beats talking in business, leadership, and life. 35:08 - How strong brands grow through awareness, not just loyalty programs. 01:05:02 - The three traits Zarko looks for when mentoring future leaders. About the Guest: Zarko Dimitrioski is a Macedonian entrepreneur, marketer, and talk-show host who helps brands turn attention into sales. As Managing Partner of BDG Grupa, a full-service creative, digital, and production agency in Skopje, he leads cross-functional teams that deliver end-to-end campaigns for regional and international clients. His operating principle is simple: pair strong product truth with clear, persuasive communication—and measure what matters. In media since the age of six, first as a prominent child-actor, Zarko has hosted One on One (Eден на Еден) for 17 years—the longest-running TV talk show in the country—with Season 17 launching in November 2025. On stage he has addressed audiences from intimate rooms to crowds of 50,000+, relying on a steady system of preparation, calm, and trust whether he’s interviewing, keynoting, or directing a brand campaign. Zarko is a Kellogg School of Management alumnus (Northwestern University). He holds college degrees in both Economics and Journalism and a master’s degree in Marketing. He serves on the Management Board of the Macedonian Economic Chamber. Honors include Entrepreneur of the Year 2017 (Macedonian Chambers of Commerce and Ministry of Finance) and Forbes 30 Under 30 Europe 2018—Media & Marketing. Under his leadership, BDG has become a premium partner to leading brands across finance, FMCG, tech, and retail. The agency delivers strategy, creative, social, video and animation, media, and performance marketing under one roof, and often acts as a fast, cost-efficient production hub for network agencies such as Luna/TBWA and for UK partners who value BDG’s quality-to-cost advantage. A lifelong student of behavioral economics and effectiveness, Zarko designs work that reduces friction, frames value intelligently and moves real numbers. He’s passionate about inclusive, accessible content—because it’s both right and higher-performing. Building from a small market taught him focus, pragmatism, and speed. He enjoys collaborating with teams who want practical creativity and a low-risk trial that proves value fast. Ways to connect with Zarko: email: [email protected]: https://www.linkedin.com/in/zarkodimitrioski/agency website: https://bdg-agency.com/ About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT\&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children’s Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association’s 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset . Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes:

What happens when heartbreak becomes the starting point for a whole new purpose? In this episode of Unstoppable Mindset, I sit down with Heather Christie, author, educator, entrepreneur, and founder of Love Notes, a storytelling movement built around real stories of real love. Heather shares how commuting alone to New York City as a teenager shaped her independence, why she walked away from her creative dreams after marrying young, and how writing helped her rediscover herself after the end of a 30-year marriage. We explore storytelling, resilience, creativity, publishing, relationships, and the power of authentic human connection. You will hear how Heather transformed loneliness into hope through Love Notes, an off-Broadway storytelling series that is now expanding across the country and helping people reconnect with the many forms love can take. Highlights: 01:25 - Learn how early independence shaped Heather’s confidence and resilience. 16:03 - Discover why staying true to yourself matters in life and relationships. 19:29 - Hear how heartbreak inspired a search for real love stories. 27:21 - Learn how writing helped Heather reconnect with her creativity. 32:35 - Discover the mindset that helped her push through years of rejection. 47:17 - Hear what Heather believes is at the heart of real love. About the Guest: Heather Christie is a speaker, writer-producer, educator, and the creator of LoveNotes! — Real Stories. Real People. Real Love.®—an Off-Broadway storytelling show that’s expanding through satellite productions alongside an award-winning anthology. An award-winning YA author, she wrote What The Valley Knows and The Lying Season, which debuted as an Amazon #1 bestseller in Young Adult Soccer Fiction. Her essays have appeared in Salon, NextTribe, Writer’s Digest, Baltimore Style, Scary Mommy, Elephant Journal, The Good Men Project, Grown & Flown, Baltimore Child, Parent.co, Her View From Home, the Erma Bombeck Writers’ Workshop, and The Lighter Side of Real Estate. Heather holds a BA in Literary Studies from UT-Dallas and an MFA from Pine Manor College. She is CEO of SocRoc Soccer and an adjunct lecturer at the City University of New York. Ways to connect with Heather: Website: www.LoveNotesWorldwide.com & www.HeatherChristieBooks.com Instagram:@_heatherchristie/lovenotes_worldwideFacebook: @heatherchristiebooks / @LoveNotesWorldwideLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/heather-christie-mfa-4b976049/LoveNotes! AnthologyWhat The Valley Knows (book)The Lying Season (book) About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT\&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children’s Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association’s 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset . Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes: Michael Hingson  00:06 John, thank you for being here with me on Unstoppable Mindset. I hope today's conversation left you with a fresh perspective, a new insight, or at least something worth thinking about. If you're ready to go deeper into the ideas that shape how we see ourselves and others, I have a free gift for you. Head over to Michael hingson.com and download my free ebook, Blinded by Fear. It explores the invisible beliefs that hold us back and shows you how to reframe them, so you can move forward with clarity and confidence. Be sure to subscribe to our podcast, leave a review, and share this show with someone who can use a reminder that growth starts with mindset. When people think differently, we all move forward together. Thanks again for listening. Keep learning, keep questioning, and keep choosing to live with an unstoppable mindset. Hi everyone, and welcome to another episode of Unstoppable Mindset. Today we get the opportunity and the honor of chatting with Heather Christy, and Heather, Heather is an author. She and her brother have formed a company, so she's clearly an entrepreneur. She's acted, she's a keynote speaker, and I don't know what all we're going to find out in the next hour or so, but definitely an exciting person to get a chance to chat with. So, Heather, welcome to Unstoppable Mindset. We're glad you're here. Speaker 1  01:47 Thank you, Michael. I'm so honored that we're going to have a conversation today. Michael Hingson  01:52 And Heather lives in New York City, she lives in Manhattan, or as we all know it, the city. And before we started this, we were talking about the fact that winter is coming everywhere. Ah, well, what do you do as long as you don't get too much snow back there? Speaker 1  02:11 Yeah, the winters have been pretty mild here the last couple years, so see what happens. Michael Hingson  02:16 Yeah, time will tell. Well, why don't we start? Tell us about the early Heather growing up in some of those things. Speaker 1  02:22 Okay, well, as a young person, I, I wanted to be an actress, and I grew up in a really small rural town, about two hours due west of New York City, in Pennsylvania. It's called the Holy Valley. Michael Hingson  02:37 What town? Speaker 1  02:39 Oh, it's called Oli Oley Valley, it's actually a Michael Hingson  02:42 valley. Okay, Speaker 1  02:43 historic site. And so I had a really interesting sort of upbringing, because I, before it was really in vogue, I was on a work-study program, and I would spend half my day in this small Pennsylvania town, and then I would jump on a bus - it was called the Bieber Bus back then - and drive to New York City on the bus, and that was like two to two and a half hours each way, get off in the, you know, huge metropolis of New York City, go on auditions, go sees, or if I had a booking, I'd do the booking, and then I would jump back on the bus and go all the way back to rural Pennsylvania, and that's how I spent like all my high school years was back and forth, back and forth, back and forth, and then I actually graduated early. I graduated halfway through my senior year. I had enough of my credits done that I'd actually, the first half of my senior year, I went to community college, and I took a class in the evenings, so I could be done by Christmas break, and the only requirement I still needed to fulfill was my physical fitness, so I ended up moving to New York City, and then I would take my physical fitness classes at Steps Dance Studio, and then I was still able to graduate with my class in June, but I was living in New York City from January on of what would have been senior year. Yeah, so it was like the early me, and the one thing that was sort of interesting when I was on the work study, my mom was a mathematician, and my dad was a an ER doctor, so they actually tutored me. My mom tutored me in math, and my father tutored me in chemistry. And then, like my history teacher back back in the day, we had Walkmans, and he would record his three lessons on a Walkman, and I would listen to them on the bus back and forth from New York. Michael Hingson  04:43 Yep, Lockmans were the big thing back in time. Sony created a very clever thing, but as with everything, the technology has advanced beyond that. Now Speaker 1  04:58 that's right. Yeah, now my kids. Wouldn't even recognize a Walkman, Michael Hingson  05:02 they wouldn't recognize a cassette either. Speaker 1  05:05 That's right, yeah, it would be like an ancient artifact. Michael Hingson  05:08 What's really strange is there are a lot of people who don't even really know anymore what CDs are. Speaker 1  05:14 That's true, yeah. Michael Hingson  05:16 Much less, well, and DVD is sort of going the same way, it hasn't quite got there, but we, we are new now, moving more into streaming and things like that, but, gee, what a crazy world. Well, so you went through high school, basically commuting to New York. What did your parents think of that? Speaker 1  05:35 Well, I was one of four children, I was the oldest child, and what's remarkable is in the beginning, my mother would go with me, but it was hard to do that, and have you know three other children at home, so by the time I was 15 I was doing it on my own, and when I.. it's just like such a different culture that children are raised in now, there's sort of this idea that we, we can't let them kind of do their own thing, you know, like there's, we're so follow every move and thing they do, but that was like a lot of independence my parents granted me at such a young age, and so they thought, I mean, it was great, and they gave me the support I needed, but at the same time they allowed me to be really independent at a pretty young age. I know when I tell people, "Oh, yeah, I moved to New York City when I was 17 by myself, they're like, "And your parents let you do that? And New York, and this was in the late 80s, early 90s, and New York was like a whole different place, like when I get off the bus at Port Authority back then, like now that whole strip Times Square is kind of sanitized and disified, but back then it was, it was a little rough, Michael Hingson  06:56 it was a lot of X-rated things, and all that, I did some commuting more in the early 90s. I sold products, and I would travel back to New York, because that's where I sold to. I traveled from California, and I remember it was there was a lot of stuff on 42nd Street that was very X-rated, and so on, a lot different than the musical 42nd Street, but that's okay. Speaker 1  07:20 That's right, yeah, Michael Hingson  07:21 but it is a lot, a lot cleaner now than it was, and I remember times I would go out of my hotel and there would be people who would say you really shouldn't be walking around on your own, and why not, and they said, well, because it's pretty dangerous here, and you know, the the angels that that were out there insisted on escorting me everywhere I went, just because they were concerned about me, and I wasn't, although I understand the the situation, but I wasn't going to go in the middle of Central Park at night either, so you know, Speaker 1  07:58 right, and I was a lot the same for me. I remember, though, getting.. I would get off the bus at the Port Authority, for people who know you, New York City, it's on Eighth Avenue, and then I would feel like I wasn't like fully safe until I could get to Lord and Taylor, which was on Sixth Avenue. Yeah, and then it felt like everything got a little bit safer and calmer, the energy changed. Michael Hingson  08:23 Yeah, Speaker 1  08:23 that Michael Hingson  08:24 was a lot different. You could always go to St. Patrick's Cathedral for refuge too. So, but yeah, the Port Authority was an interesting place to go, and I understand. Well, how did.. how did all that affect you, and how did, how does what you did back then kind of affect you in the way you think today, especially with children and so on? Would you give them that same level of independence today? Speaker 1  08:52 That's a really interesting question. And my children are a little older than I was at that time now, but I do think about when they were 15, 1616, years old, and if I'm to answer the question really honestly, I don't know that I would have. I just feel like, and I don't know what's changed about society that makes it that way, that and part of it I think is maybe like the news cycle just is constantly highlighting everything that's wrong and fear based that that's what we see and it's in our faces so much more because we have all this access to it through social media that it it creates sort of this, this like undercurrent in parenting that, that we're, that we're oftentimes afraid, like, what could happen to our children. So, I don't know if I actually would have let them commute like that by themselves, you know? Like, yeah, I don't think I would have. Michael Hingson  09:56 Yeah, it's definitely different now than it was then, and. And I think you're right with especially the news cycle and also in reality there's there's so much gun violence and other stuff going on and I ask people when we talk about it I ask is it really that there's more now or it's just more visible in the news, and I'm not sure that it's just visibility. I think there is more stuff going on, and it's not being stopped nearly as effectively or as aggressively as it should be, and it does make it a scarier world. It's tougher, I think, by far to be a kid now than it was when you were a kid, much less I believe when I was growing up. We just didn't see the kinds of things that we see today, and I don't think it's all just exposure from the news. I think there's there's some truth to the fact that that there are other issues going on, Speaker 1  11:00 right, that it actually is a more dangerous world that we live in. Michael Hingson  11:03 Yeah, and I think that it is something that we do have to think about, and hopefully someday sanity will come back to it all. I agree, I'm of the opinion that eventually it will, but you know, so that's cool. But, but still, we have to do what we do, but I also think that we can't stifle our children, we have to give them the opportunity to grow. It may be that you might, when your children were the age you were, you might have decided, well, one of us just has to go with you all the time, and we're going to just to keep an eye on you, or you have other people that help, but I think being so aggressively smothering that you don't let children grow is a problem too. Speaker 1  11:53 Yeah, I agree. I think that's, I mean, there's that saying, and maybe I'll get it right, or maybe I'll get it wrong here, that we need to give our children roots and wings, Michael Hingson  12:02 yeah, Speaker 1  12:02 and that's the challenge, is to find the balance, Michael Hingson  12:06 yeah. Well, and so for you, you were given a lot of independence. How did that shape kind of your attitude, and how does it shape the way you look at life today? Speaker 1  12:20 Well, that's a really great question, and for all the independence that I had as a young person, and maybe, maybe I was given too much independence in some ways, because I, I ended up marrying very young, and and I often wonder, like, had my parents not given me as much independence, if I would have done that, but yeah, I still think I'm very independent now, and I've tried to instill that in my children as well, and I think they're, they're really great kids, and they've launched really well, which I know is a common problem with today's young adults, is the this sort of inability to to launch, and I, I feel really good. My both my kids have done that and done it well. Michael Hingson  13:15 Well, and all you can do is your best, Speaker 1  13:19 right? Michael Hingson  13:20 I think we don't do this nearly as much as we should, but it ultimately comes down to, you know, kids want all sorts of independence, and so on. Parents are, are.. I'm talking about parents who really think about what they do, they may not want children to have that much independence, but I think the key is that you really need to communicate with your kids and teach them what's going on and why, Speaker 1  13:48 right. I think that's it's to be open and transparent with, with our children is very, and to have like the hard conversations and give them a safe space in which they can speak to Michael Hingson  14:02 the other side of that is that we should hold them to the same standard and say when you have issues and so on, we're here, we're not going to judge you, you need to have the hard conversations with us too. And I don't think we do nearly as much of that. I know when I was growing up, we had a lot of conversations. Of course, I was blind. I've been blind my whole life, and I encountered a lot of different things growing up, and my parents were glad to talk with me about blindness, and glad to talk with me about different things about independence, and it also was true that they allowed me to be independent. I mean, I rode my own bike around the neighborhood, and some other.. I'm not the only blind kid that did that in the world, but in my town I was brand.. and I think that, you know, I'm. Sure, that I was watched, but parents didn't interfere. I mean, I even fell off the bike a couple times until I really learned how to ride it, but they allowed me to have the opportunity to grow, and I think that there is a way to do that without, without, well, without stifling your kids, and that you can, you can let kids grow, and we should really emphasize curiosity a lot more than we do. Speaker 1  15:29 I agree, I think that's really important, is to give kids the space to grow and encourage curiosity. Michael Hingson  15:36 Yeah, we don't probably do that nearly as much as we ought to, well, so you mentioned you got married at 19. Well, I guess that's a little young, but, but you did that, huh? Speaker 1  15:48 I did. Yes, I did. I married young. Michael Hingson  15:54 How did that work out? Speaker 1  15:56 Well, it, it worked out for a little, well, it worked out for a while. I stayed married a really long time, but I eventually divorced 30 years later, and part of that had to do with I was, I did marry young, but my ex-husband also had some addictions that you know in time just became too hard to manage, so that ended the thing, and he Michael Hingson  16:29 wouldn't, and he wouldn't deal with them Speaker 1  16:31 well. At one point, I mean, we'll ask a lot of times in relationship with addicts, you kind of, there are times when they deal with them, and then times when they don't, Michael Hingson  16:39 right? Speaker 1  16:40 Yeah, so ultimately it dissolved. Michael Hingson  16:44 It's too bad when things happen. Speaker 1  16:47 That's right, yeah, but I'm grateful for the the union, because it produced my two great kids. Michael Hingson  16:56 And what, what else did being married for 30 years teach you? Speaker 1  17:01 Well, wow, that's a great question. I think probably it taught me most of all it's a lesson learned, sort of, that you really need to be true to yourself and listen to yourself, because I think deep down we know, and my I was always trying, like, to try harder, if I just try harder, you know, things will get better, but there's part of me deep down that knew I was sort of trying harder for everybody else but myself. And when I left New York, I had given up everything I'd worked on, and in, you know, in hindsight, when I look back, I, it was in a way I sort of abandon all my dreams and hopes, and ultimately I don't think that's a good thing when you give up yourself for someone else. Michael Hingson  17:50 So, after you got married, what did you do? Where did you go? Speaker 1  17:54 Well, my ex-husband was a professional soccer player, so we ended up going around the United States, he played for a couple different teams, and I went to college, and I finished my degree at the University of Texas, and then I, I did a couple things, I was a flight attendant, and I eventually fell into real estate, and worked in real estate for a long, long time, but along the way, I, there was a, there was a point where I kind of really missed that young creative person that I had started out my life as, and I'd always loved books and lacher, and my undergraduate degree was in literary studies, and I started writing stories, and then at midlife went back to graduate school for a master's of fine arts in creative writing, and and started writing. So I was, I was always doing a bunch of things. I was a real estate broker, I was managing a company, and then I was, I was writing, and began writing novels on the side. Michael Hingson  18:58 What was your bachelor's degree in Speaker 1  19:00 literary studies. Michael Hingson  19:02 Oh, okay, Speaker 1  19:03 yeah. Michael Hingson  19:04 So, you never did get degrees in what either of your parents did. Speaker 1  19:09 No, no, no, Michael Hingson  19:10 you weren't that into math. Speaker 1  19:12 No, not at all. No, I always liked words, words. Michael Hingson  19:16 Yeah, I understand. I do pretty well with math, but by the same token, I've been learning more about words, having now written three books, and appreciate it. I also like to collaborate, so when I write, I generally write with someone. I think that the team approach works, at least it does for me, and there are a lot of people who don't use a second person on their team, other than their publishers, editors, and so on, but for me the collaborative way works, which is fine. Speaker 1  19:49 I've had a little bit more experience later now in my creative career, because I've, and maybe we'll talk about this in a little bit, but I've started producing storytelling shows, so I. Work with the storytellers in helping them in their stories, so that's a much more collaborative exercise, and one one I really enjoy. Michael Hingson  20:09 Yeah, well, well, let's, let's, you know, we could talk about it now. What the heck, we don't have to do this in a linear way. Tell me about storytelling. What you think about storytelling. Why is it so important, and so on. Speaker 1  20:25 Well, for me, so the storytelling that I do, I'm working on this project called Love Notes, which real stories by real people about real love, and that came to me during the darkest, loneliest period of my life. It was, you know, after the disillusion of this 30 year marriage, and I was really despondent and, and disillusioned, and thinking, you know, like, does love even exist, and what does it look like, and I just, I just really didn't even believe in love anymore, and being in the storytelling community, I produced some storytelling shows, stories about motherhood. I put out a call to writers and actors and just regular people to share their true love stories, and so from that, people started sending me all these true stories, they had to be 1000 words or fewer, and so to answer your question, like, what does storytelling do in, in this case, I think story, storytelling, it's different than other mediums, like the personal essay or the novel, it's, it's a, it's a testament, it's a first person testament, and what's really great when you see the different storytelling communities around the country is anybody can do it, and so that's part of the beauty of storytelling. Michael Hingson  22:00 I think the key is, though, it has to be a genuine story. Making it up isn't the same thing, Speaker 1  22:06 right? And that's the difference, right? Because people will write a short story or story thing, but in storytelling, you're exactly right, Michael. It needs to be a true story, and that's what makes it so compelling, and I think so relatable, is that people can see themselves in other people's stories, so like in my case it was a way, it was like the evidence, the proof of love, like what it really looks like as it walks around in the world, Michael Hingson  22:36 so that's it, sounds like changed your view of love, and that you believe in love again. I Speaker 1  22:46 do, I do, and it's it, and even like during the first season of Love Notes, because we do an off-Broadway show here in Manhattan, and we have an anthology, a companion anthology. I remember that first year, like some I'd wake up in the morning and just like be not despondent but upset, like, oh, like this doesn't happen. And then literally there was like a little voice in my head that would say, oh well, don't you remember Stacey's story or Sarah's story? And it was like just like the the universe providing this evidence and this this proof and just hearing enough stories and story after story, yeah, it really did fortify my belief in love, and that love is for everyone, and it comes like from all these different angles, and when you least expect it, and it shows up in so many different forms. Michael Hingson  23:43 Yeah, well, and I think there's there's a lot of merit to that. I know when I was writing this last book that I wrote, which is entitled Live Like a Guide Dog: True Stories from a Blind Man and His Dogs, about being brave, overcoming adversity, and moving forward in faith, I spent a lot of time talking about each of the eight guide dogs that I've had and the lessons I learned from them, and also using those lessons in the book to show the importance of different aspects of what happens in our lives, but I have maintained for years I've learned a lot more about life and learned about leadership and teamwork. I've learned a lot more from these dogs than I ever learned from all the experts in the world, and that's primarily because we'll have some interesting observations. One, I allow my dogs to express themselves, but they also learn what the rules are. Because dogs really want to hear from humans, they want humans to set the rules, they want humans to be the pack leaders, by and large, and they want humans to be the ones to say this is what I expect, but when. That relationship forms, and it forms well. There's it's second to none, and you learn so much. Dogs love unconditionally, but they don't trust unconditionally, but they're open to trust, and we're not. And we really should learn to be more open to trust, and just so many different kinds of things. It has really given me a lot of pause to think over the past several years, while we were writing the book, and, and I, and I think about it now. There are a lot of neat stories in there that really ultimately are love stories in one way or another, and I think that makes a lot of sense. Speaker 1  25:36 Oh, that's so.. I'm actually a new dog owner, well, not too new, I.. I'm for the first time in my adult life have a dog, and I just.. it's such a wonderful, like, experience, and it's opened me up to, yeah, like so many different levels of love. Michael Hingson  25:53 Yeah, dogs want to establish a relationship, but as I said, I don't think that they are open to just trusting they do pretty much love unconditionally, unless something just totally traumatizes them. But trusting is a different story, and that's a trust that has to be earned both ways. It's not just us earning their trust, but they're earning our trust, and the people who really take that to heart and develop that relationship and think about it, find that they have a bond that's really second to none. It's as close to knit a team as you could ever find. Speaker 1  26:35 That's beautiful. Michael Hingson  26:37 So, it's a lot of fun. What kind of dog do you have? Speaker 1  26:40 I have, well, because remember I'm in a small New York City. I have a teacup poodle. Michael Hingson  26:46 Oh, so it isn't a Saint Bernard, okay? Speaker 1  26:49 And she's, she's an eye, she's a, she's a character. She, she acts like she's a cross between a teacup and a pit bull when she's in the, when she's out on the street. She does not like she's a scaredy cat on the street. She would prefer to be carried when we're on the street, so she's got sort of a split personality, but she, and she doesn't take too many people. So, just like you were saying, I can identify with that, like the whole trust element, and she's, she only trusts a few people. Michael Hingson  27:25 Yeah, well, trust isn't something that happens overnight. I've maintained for a long time. I think it takes a good year for me when I am meeting a new guide dog. I think it takes a good year for the trust to become so seamless that we really know what each other is thinking, and I think that we really do understand each other. There's a lot of empathy there, Speaker 1  27:52 that's really great. So, Michael Hingson  27:53 I think it's, it is kind of cool. Well, so, but going back to you getting married and all that, so you gave up for a while a lot of your dreams, that that must have, whether it was conscious or not, been a little bit frustrating. Speaker 1  28:08 Yeah, and I didn't realize it at the time. It was only later, like when my younger self sort of came calling, and I had given up a lot for this marriage that didn't really turn out the way I had hoped, and yeah, so writing was a way for me to find myself again, was not only a refuge during that time in my life when I wasn't really happy, but it also really opened up that whole creative part of myself, which felt really good, and it's, you know, it's been something now I've been working on for the last decade and a half, Michael Hingson  28:57 but it sounds like you didn't really, or at least consciously you didn't really know that you were unhappy. Speaker 1  29:03 No, I didn't, and that's a really interesting observation that that you make, because you know, I had my children, I loved my children, and I loved being a mom, and I had a really fulfilling career, but there was something missing, you know, and I wasn't really able to put my finger on that until I started writing, and then it became more and more obvious that, yeah, this is the part that was missing, this, you know, who you had thought you were going to be a creative, you, you had denied that, and you're right, so it wasn't really conscious, but, like, once I sort of, it started to become more noticeable to me, then it sort of came back with a vengeance. Michael Hingson  29:49 How much writing did you do before you got married? Speaker 1  29:53 Before.. well, I really didn't, because I was more in the.. I read a lot. Lot, and, but I was more into that, the acting, so I didn't really, I mean, I would write some really bad poetry, but not anything. I know some writers will say they were writing from the time they were six years old, but I, it didn't come to me till much later. Michael Hingson  30:16 So, what got you started back writing after your marriage ended, what was the trigger that made that happen? Speaker 1  30:25 Writing and the marriage, it was like the last 10 years of, of my marriage, I was writing, and it's, I sort of wrote my, my way out of the marriage in a way, but what was the trigger, and I do remember there wasn't an absolute trigger. I had a friend who had self-published a book. Michael Hingson  30:45 Okay, Speaker 1  30:46 I was like a friend of a friend. And one afternoon, it was a summer afternoon, we were over at her house because she had been hired to go to an elementary school and do a presentation, and so we were brainstorming and about what she could do at this presentation, and I went home from that, and I was like, I felt like so energized again. I was like, wow, well, I could do this, I could write a children's book, and so I sat down, and I wrote this book called Beatrice Bumblebee is busy. I didn't know anything about publishing, and I thought to myself, okay, well, now I'll just write it, and I'll send it to publishers, and I'll get it published. Well, it was promptly rejected by every single publisher, and I knew nothing about the publishing that point, but it was enough of a spark. And then I did start just sort of playing around, and I had this scene in my head of a girl, like a young girl who's been in a car accident, and she's on the side of the road losing consciousness, and she has this terrible secret that she wants to tell her boyfriend, and this, the scene, it was like a dark, wet Pennsylvania night, and it was an autumn, and like, I could see the mist, and so I had written this scene, and I remember giving it to my father, who was a huge reader, and he's like, well, Heather, this is really good. Why don't you keep trying to work on it? And, and so I did, and I love school, so I was like, well, I don't know how to write, like, how can I learn how to write? And then I sort of discovered, oh, well, there's these MFA programs, and so I ended up applying, and and going back to school, and then it was in my MFA program, where I wrote the first draft of my first novel, but yeah, so the actual trigger was a friend who had published a self-published a book, and it really kind of triggered something in me. Michael Hingson  32:38 Whatever happened to Beatrice Bumblebee is busy, Speaker 1  32:41 she is in a drawer, but I do keep.. I have here on my bulletin board. I'll pull it down if we're on camera. I have this little bumblebee, it's like a rhinestone bumblebee that I keep stuck on my bulletin board as just a reminder that the address in my life. Michael Hingson  33:07 Well, are you ever going to publish it? Speaker 1  33:10 Oh, I don't think it's very good, Michael. Michael Hingson  33:12 Okay, well, maybe you should go back and rewrite it, but Speaker 1  33:16 then, and maybe if I have grandchildren someday, maybe I'll, I'll be, yeah, that's kind of interesting that you say that. Maybe I will go back and just look at it. It would be fun to look at it all these years later. Michael Hingson  33:32 Yeah, well, so you got rejected a whole bunch, which is a pretty common story. What did you learn from that? Speaker 1  33:42 Well, and I do, I do talks at different places, and one of the talks I say is I started with the, you know, Calvin Coolidge said most of humanity's problems can be solved with two simple words, press on, and and that's what I learned through the process. My first book was on submission for like 520 weeks before it finally found a publisher, and it was every degree of rejection that you can get when you're publishing, you know, I'm, and for people who understand the publishing hierarchy, you know, the coveted placement is to land a book deal with one of the big five traditional publishers, and then from there it works its way way down, and we had gotten close on some of the big fives and other places where we'd made it to acquisitions, and we finally ended up with a small indie publisher, but it took so long, and it was so soul crushing in a way, and not so much the first book, and the first book I was still like super, super hopeful, and then once it was published, it did go on, and it won the new. National Indy Excellence Award, and I kind of was always thinking of it as a, you know, a stepping stone, a stepping stone, and that the second book would, would land the big publishing deal, and the second book took just as long, and it ended up right back with the same publisher, so the rejection taught me, yeah, that you just need to keep going. I mean, sometimes people hit really easily, or you know, the way the wind's blowing that day, whatever's on trend or top of mind, and, and sometimes it doesn't, but you have to do it because you, you love it, and you're called to do it. Michael Hingson  35:46 When you were getting rejected, did you get any substantive feedback that helped, or do do publishers do much of that? Speaker 1  35:54 Well, actually, I did, especially on my second book, and on the first book, too, it depends how interested they are in the book, and I did have a couple that were pretty interested and gave what's called like an editorial letter, and oftentimes they won't even do that unless you're under contract, but I did have a couple that had liked it enough, so on my second book, especially my agent and I then took that information and did some like hard edits and rewrites, but that's not always the case. I mean, and I have a lot of friends who are also in the business, sometimes you don't get any, any feedback. Michael Hingson  36:39 So now all together, how many books have you written? Speaker 1  36:42 Well, I've written two, and then I've edited and curated the anthology, the Love Notes anthology, Michael Hingson  36:48 right? Speaker 1  36:49 Which, and I've written a small bit of that. Um, yeah, so I'd like to say three books. Michael Hingson  36:54 Are there more books in you? Okay, Speaker 1  36:58 for sure. We have, you know, we'll. well, first, the second, the second Love Notes edition, I'm definitely editing and curating the stories for that, and that's through a small publisher. And then I have been really sort of toying around with, like, what's my next book, and my first two books were young adult romance, mystery, and thriller, and I kind of think I'm done with that genre, so I have talked about an adult, adult fiction, or even a that would go kind of hand in hand with Love Notes, the my story type of book, you know, rebuilding after divorce and being on, you know, what the space that love notes came out of, and going on, you know, hundreds of dates, and what that, that looked like, but that's in a very sort of nebulous state. It Michael Hingson  37:54 will be fun to see what happens. You'll have to keep us all posted, Speaker 1  37:58 yeah, for sure. Michael Hingson  38:00 But you've, you've described your creative journey, your whole creative journey is basically transforming heartbreak into healing. Tell me more about that. Speaker 1  38:14 Yeah, like I touched on earlier, Love Notes came out as sort of this really dark, lonely time in my life. My 30 year marriage had ended. My children had both left for college, and I'd relocated to New York City. So I was living alone for the first time in my adult lifetime. I was 19 years old, and New York can be a really.. for as many people who live here, it can be a really lonely place. I was really, really starting over, and I started dating at midlife, is, you know, it's not for the faint of heart, and I was going on a lot of dates, and just really discouraged by the whole process, and, like, I had sort of mentioned earlier, that's where I kind of was like almost indignant, like you know, I want proof, like show me proof that that love is real, and and that's where this this call to like look for people's love stories came from, so I do say it, it truly came out of a place of of loneliness and darkness, and then hope, though, too. You know, I was hoping I wanted to, I wanted, I wanted the stories to give me proof. I wanted them to be the evidence, and then, and then that sort of became a calling that, well, then I want to share that with other people and give other people hope, and that's been the most gratifying part for me is when somebody like they come to the show and the shows are really great, these storytelling shows, and now I've started to franchise them, so we have them popping up in some other cities, and I've gone around to some of the other cities, in fact, if you have any listeners who. When I produce a love note show, but the audience members, they're like, "Oh, wow, this, this was.. they don't expect it, first of all, coming into it, and everybody walks out feeling good, and that is like so gratifying to me, that, like, you know, in this, in these like divisive times, that they can come to a show, they can recognize part of the human experience, and they can walk out feeling uplifted and Speaker 2  40:25 hopeful, and that some readers, Speaker 1  40:27 you know, in the book do that too, like having read the book, and someone will reach out and say, "Oh, well, that just really gave me hope. So, hope that answers the question a little bit. Michael Hingson  40:40 Does it? Does it? Does get so the two books that you've written are what the Valley Knows and The Lying Season. Tell me more about those. What the interesting titles, to say the least. Speaker 1  40:52 Yeah, okay, so the both books are they're not ones, they're not a sequel and a prequel, but I would call them a series, because they're both in this fictional town of Millington Valley, which is much like the small town I grew up in, the Oley Valley, and it's all set around this high school, so the peripheral characters in the book stay the same, like the English teacher and the principal, but the kids, you know, because kids are only in high school for four years at a time, so different kids kind of like move through both of the books, they're both mysteries or are thrillers, and they both have like a big kind of like moral question at their center, both sent it set in this Millington Valley, which is a small Pennsylvania town, Michael Hingson  41:45 right? And they're, they're for juveniles, primarily. You said, I think, right. Speaker 1  41:52 Well, they are. They'd be considered young adults. What the valley knows, that's told from three point of views: two kids, and then one of the kids' mothers, so it has a lot of crossover appeal. So you and that book originally started at six point of views, and that was when I was in graduate school, and I remember my professor saying to me, Well, Heather, that's that's just too ambitious to try to do for your first book, you need to cut it down, and, and just whoever's story has to be there, that's the point of view you, you include, and so it kind of fell into the young adult category by accident, but I have a lot of adult readers who, who it really resonates as well, Michael Hingson  42:43 yeah. You know, I know a lot of people say, especially the early ones, the Harry Potter books are for more young adults, and so on, but I certainly had no problem enjoying them as a full-fledged, real-life middle-aged adult. So I think there's a lot that we can learn by stretching and not necessarily just falling into the trap of reading one kind or, or one sort of book that's, oh, this is for more adults or this is more for for children. Think there's a lot to be learned all the way around. Speaker 1  43:17 I think you're, you're right, Michael, and that's it's kind of like a modern thing that we do, like classifying books as adult fiction, like when we think about Catcher in the Rye, like what would that be considered now? Because the protagonist is a young adult, would it be considered a young adult book? But yeah, that's a really great point that you're making. Michael Hingson  43:40 Well, so you, you wrote these books, and you said that, so they've been published, and I assume they're out there. Do you know if they're audio books also? Speaker 1  43:52 Well, yes, and but here's the thing, I, because I didn't get to pick the publisher, I mean, the, you know, I didn't get to pick the narrator, so the what they both, okay, so what the bally knows is narrated. Yes, I don't like the narrator's voice. I know that's a terrible thing to say, because I would love for people to go and listen to the audio book, but I don't know, and maybe it's just me. And then the second book the publisher actually used like an AI kind of, I don't know exactly how it works, and I didn't really even know it happened till I went on Amazon one day, I was like, oh, they made an audio book of this, and it was in like an AI voice, so, so the answer is yes. Both of them are on audiobook. Love Notes is not the other bar. Michael Hingson  44:49 It's interesting, I'm on several lists that deal with audio books, and so on, and I hear people talking or. Emailing on the list all the time, and what people have often said is nonfiction books that are not what they're necessarily as much into as fiction books, they don't mind it being an AI voice, but when they're reading good fiction, where they really want to be absorbed, AI and synthetic voices text to speech just doesn't do it, and in fact I buy into that. I agree with that. I don't think that we have yet gotten computer synthesized voices to really take the place of human readers, and I don't know that we ever totally will, because we're so used to what people sound like, but it is an interesting thing that does come up. Speaker 1  45:47 Yeah, I agree with you. Michael Hingson  45:50 So, I prefer human readers in general. I've never been as great a fan of having a synthetic voice. Nothing against computers, but they just don't talk as well as humans do. Speaker 1  46:03 No, I agree with you too. I much prefer the human voice. Michael Hingson  46:09 Well, so you, when did you start writing love notes? When did that really start coming to fruition? Speaker 1  46:17 Well, love notes. We're coming into our third off-Broadway season this Valentine's Day, so it started that would, so it was started in 22 Michael Hingson  46:27 Oh, yeah. Okay, Speaker 1  46:29 so it's a relatively young project. We're going into our third year, but I'm super excited. We just cast the show for this upcoming performance, and that's really exciting. We have, you know, a bunch of local New Yorkers, but then we also have about the cast is 12 members, and six of them are from other parts of the country, so it's, it's got a, you know, flavor from from from all over. Michael Hingson  46:57 Now, is Love Notes available in any way online, or is it strictly just the shows, and they're not recorded and disseminated in any way. The Speaker 1  47:06 the all-star show, which is Valentine's Day at Symphony Space in New York City, the APM show is live streamed. Yeah, so it can be enjoyed from anywhere in the world. Michael Hingson  47:19 Okay, but outside of that one being live streamed, are there recordings of any of the shows that are out there for people to hear? Speaker 1  47:28 There are on my website, actually. Both the 2023 show and the 2024 show are available for resale. I think it's like $15 and you can, you can watch it's like it's a great, like date night kind of thing to watch the Love Notes show. Michael Hingson  47:48 Okay. Well, so from all that you have heard and seen and interacted with in doing Love Notes, how do you define real love today? Speaker 1  48:01 Oh that's it. Oh, Michael Hingson  48:03 that for a question out of left field. Yeah, Speaker 1  48:06 that's a great question. How do I define real love? So, I think real love shows up in a lot of different ways, and it.. and what's interesting in love notes, is I've seen all sorts of examples of it. I've seen the type of real love that ignites people when they're young, you know. Speaker 3  48:31 We'll love Speaker 1  48:31 that's the other thing people will say, "Oh, well, you were too young, that's why it didn't work out. But I don't think that's necessarily true. I think I think a little bit sometimes is luck of the draw, but the I've seen examples of people who met when they were 20 years old, and they've stayed together their entire lives, and that shows up in commitment and the ability to grow up together and to grow and evolve together, so I think real love shows up like that, but I've also seen real love, like the second time around type of love, and that sort of love, where people really need to be able to integrate their past and understand they're both two people carrying bags, and now they're going to carry those bags together, and so that shows up in a different way. Real love, and I've even seen it love showing up for people like in their 80s, third time around, or having never had partnered, and finding a partner very late in life, and that shows up in a whole different way, that's absolutely real too, but I think at the core of all types of real love is one, the ability to both people have to want the relationship, and they have. To be willing to work for the relationship, it's not just like what I want or you want, but it's oftentimes if they can ask the question, like what's the problem, and how is are we a team against the problem, or to be able to solve the problem, and I think that's sort of like the realist type of love that's out there, Michael Hingson  50:26 and I would, would also say it goes back to something we talked about earlier with, with dogs, dogs are are very much open to and do love unconditionally, and when we develop that kind of a relationship, it's as strong as any other kind of relationship that we can develop. When both sides of that relationship sense it and know it, it creates a bond that's, as I said earlier, second to none. Speaker 1  50:58 Yeah, that's a really great way of putting Michael Hingson  51:02 it. I would, I would not want to do anything to betray my guide dog or any of the guide dogs that I've had, but I've learned how to create those teams, and I think that's very important. One thing that that sticks in my mind dealing with dogs is when I lived in Northern California, we were very close to the Marin Humane Society, which is one of the more famous organizations of that type in the world. We were talking to one of the people at the Marin Humane Society one day, and they were talking about the fact that they're growing in class sizes and growing in the number of classes that they have to offer, but what they also point out is that 90% of the training isn't training the dog, it's training the human, which is really true. There's so much that humans don't really work to develop the relationship that they should, and that if they really truly understood it, it would, it would be a whole lot different relationship that they would experience, Speaker 1  52:05 yeah, that's a really nice way of looking at it. Michael Hingson  52:10 Well, so you have love notes that are growing by loops and bounds in a lot of ways, and you have, how many different places are doing the shows now? Speaker 1  52:24 Well, so far we have Indianapolis, Chicago, Redding, Pennsylvania, and then we have another Pennsylvania city, Lancaster, Pennsylvania, and we're in talks right now with Atlanta, Georgia, and Tampa, Florida. Michael Hingson  52:42 Wow, so it's growing, Speaker 1  52:45 it's growing, it's starting to spread. We're starting to spread some love. Michael Hingson  52:51 I get it. What do you think about that? Speaker 1  52:54 I think it's great. Like, I hope I'd love to see one in every city. Such a nice event that really brings the community together. Michael Hingson  53:04 So, how often do the shows run? Is it just like on Valentine's Day, or do they go throughout the whole year? Speaker 1  53:10 It can be any time of year, and it's usually just a one-day event. Sometimes there's multiple shows on one day, but yeah, it's just a one day. Oftentimes the local producer will partner with a local charity, so we try to give back in that way too, and they can choose the charity they want, or, or sometimes they're trying to fund like a scholarship fund, or or something like that. I do encourage that, and and we have like a mastermind group among the producers just trying to support each other as creative entrepreneurs. Michael Hingson  53:46 Well, you're you're seeing a lot of success with it. What kind of surprises have you experienced? This must be kind of a thrill, and a lot of, a lot of surprises for you. Speaker 1  53:58 Well, one of the surprises. well, I'm not surprised by it anymore, but I, I can, I'm certain, always surprised when I have a cast member who, at the very last minute, you know, they've gone through all the rehearsals, all the prep work, all the editing, and then at the very last second they pull out of the show, I've had that happen each show, so now I know how to plan for it, and know how to prepare, you know, producers for it. But yeah, that, that's always surprising to me. Michael Hingson  54:34 It's an adventure, isn't it? Speaker 1  54:35 Sure is. Yeah, gotta sing quickly on your feet. Michael Hingson  54:39 Yeah, you definitely have to do that. Tell us a little bit about Socroc, the company you and your brother formed, and what that's all about. Speaker 1  54:47 Sure, well, my brother was a professional soccer player, and he, when he retired, he moved to Manhattan, thinking he was going to be an actor, and as most actors. Oh, they need a second job to support themselves. Yeah, so became a personal trainer, and he was personal training, and some of his clients got word that he'd been a professional soccer player, and they begged him, they're like, can you teach our kids soccer? So it kind of happened by accident, and just a few balls and cones in Central Park, teaching soccer to little kids, and over the years it's grown and grown and grown and grown. We're in our like 20th year, and so during it was like maybe five years ago, he, it just got out of hand, like it was getting too big, and he needed help, and that was when I had gone through the divorce, and I like explained I'd been in business before, and I wanted a change, so he offered me, you know, a position to come and help him and run, so I run the business side of the soccer, and he runs the soccer side, and we're all throughout Manhattan, we, we do public classes in the parks and playgrounds, and then, like, now in the winter time, we rent space all around the city, and then we also partner with private schools and public schools throughout the city, and we do birthday parties and personal training, and we're starting a kids of all abilities program, and that's that's like our new initiative right now, and and then the spring we're expanding into actually into basketball too, BB Rock, we're calling Michael Hingson  56:29 it. Oh, that's cool. Well, you're doing a lot of different things, you speak, you're an author, you're an educator. We haven't talked about, I guess it's you work with Speaker 1  56:39 SUNY. I teach at the City University of New York, which is part of SUNY, and that work I really love. Yeah, Michael Hingson  56:47 tell, tell me about that. Then, Speaker 1  56:49 so they have an initiative, it's through the Manhattan Educational Opportunity Center, and SUNY provides grants for adult students returning who need to get their high school epilepticy, their GED. So I teach writing the writing section of the GED, and this I - these are the students I like the most, and I've taught at all levels, from freshman comp all the way up to graduate level MFA, and it's the GED adult student that I enjoy the most. So, I'll, when I, when I'm done with you, I actually will zoom up to Harlem, and I'll be teaching GED time tonight. Michael Hingson  57:35 Okay. Well, you're doing all of these different things. How do you keep yourself grounded, and how do you keep the creative juices going? Speaker 1  57:44 Well, that can sometimes be a challenge. Michael Hingson  57:46 I bet, Speaker 1  57:47 but I do. I exercise. That's one thing I really, I love to exercise, and I'm getting better at just taking time for myself, but I also feel like what I do isn't work, like I enjoy what I do, so I always try to bring a sense of gratitude to each day in that way. Michael Hingson  58:13 Yeah, well, and taking time for yourself is is important to do, and and now you have a teacup poodle to share it with, and I'll bet you guys have some interesting conversations. Speaker 1  58:26 Yeah, we sure do. She's a cutie, she's just lying on the little chair right over here. Michael Hingson  58:33 Yeah, my, my dog is over here on his bed, so he, he, he monitors me. Speaker 1  58:41 Yeah, she's been really good, because sometimes when I'm on the Zoom like this, she, she'll start to bark. She doesn't like paying attention to somebody else. Michael Hingson  58:48 Well, one of these days we'll have to end up in Manhattan and come and meet her. Speaker 1  58:54 That sounds Michael Hingson  58:55 be kind of fun. Speaker 1  58:57 That sure would. Michael Hingson  58:58 Well, so tell me, what's next for you? What do you envision going forward from here? Speaker 1  59:04 Well, my hope is actually, I would love, because there have so much fodder now, all these different stories, love stories. My hope is to launch a podcast, a Love Notes podcast that would feature the storyteller and their story, and then I would do an interview of the story behind the story, because people always have questions. They'll hear a story, or they'll read the story, and it's really short. It's like 700 or 1000 words, and they'll always want to know, like, well, what happened to them, or how did that end up. So I envisioned this podcast of love notes, real stories by real people about real love, and that would be like the the meat of it, and then they're at the end of each one, there'd be like a love letter, and people could write love letters that would be shared on the podcast, and tell Michael Hingson  59:55 me, Speaker 1  59:56 you know, like, dear Michael, this is why I love you, and then it would be a. Letter, so that's that's I'd like to see more satellite cities. I'd like to get the next edition of the book out, and then launch the podcast by Trifecta. Michael Hingson  1:00:13 Lots going on, needless to say. Well, if people want to reach out to you, talk about creating their own love notes, or as you said, you'd love to find people who want to help produce in various cities. How do they do that? Speaker 1  1:00:27 Well, probably the easiest thing to do is first, if they just want to learn more about the project in general, would just be to check out the website, and that's at www dot Love Notes worldwide.com and from there, then you can, you can get a hold of me, but I'll give my email address also, it's Heather at Heather Christy, C H R I s t i e books.com so either just hit the website or send me an email directly, and I, yeah, I'd love to talk to anybody who's got a story they want to share, or anyone who's thinking like maybe they'd love to bring a love notes to their community. Michael Hingson  1:01:19 Cool. Well, I hope people will reach out and that you'll get lots of interest from our podcast. It's a, it's a fun thing, and I hope that people will respond. So, all of you out there, email Heather. Speaker 1  1:01:34 That sounds great. And my last little plug: if anybody would love to watch the Love Notes show on January, february 14 for Valentine's Day. You can find that information on the website too. Michael Hingson  1:01:48 What I'm trying to remember, what day of the week february 14 is going to be in 2026 Speaker 1  1:01:53 It's a Michael Hingson  1:01:54 Saturday, great day to Speaker 1  1:01:57 do it. So you can watch it, and actually the live stream will stay live for a week, so if you're not able to watch it that night, you can watch it during the week. Michael Hingson  1:02:05 Oh, cool. Well, I hope people will do that, and I want to thank you for being here. But I want to thank all of you out there for being a part of this today. Heather has had a lot of interesting things to say, and I hope that you'll help her and help yourself by helping her to be more successful. I'd love to hear from you. We'd love to hear your thoughts. Please feel free to email me at Michael H [email protected] that's M I C H A E L H I at Accessi B A C C E S S I B e.com We'd love it and would greatly appreciate it if wherever you are listening or watching the podcast, if you'll give us a five star review, but also, or a rating, but also give us a review. We love reviews, we appreciate reviews, and we really value all the people who have done it so far, and we ask that you do it again, or you do it for the first time. So, please let us know what you think by writing reviews. If you know anyone who ought to be a guest, we'd love it if you'd let us know. Heather, you as well. Anyone that you think ought to be a guest on Unstoppable Mindset, we would really love to be introduced. My belief is everyone has stories to tell, so don't be shy. We'd love to hear from you. But Heather, once again, I want to thank you for being here. This has been absolutely wonderful. Speaker 1  1:03:26 Thank you so much, Michael. It's been so much fun to talk to you this afternoon. Michael Hingson  1:03:32 What if the biggest thing holding you back isn't what's in front of you, but rather what you believe? Welcome to Unstoppable Mindset, where inclusion, diversity, and the unexpected meet. I'm your host, Michael Hingson, speaker, author, and advocate for inclusion and possibilities. This podcast explores how the beliefs we carry shape the way we live, lead, and connect with others each week. I talk with people who challenge assumptions, face adversity head on, and show what's possible when we choose curiosity over fear. Together, we focus on mindset, resilience, and the small shifts that lead to meaningful change. Let's get started, 1:04:24 I.