After four years, hundreds of conversations, strange rabbit trails, incredible guests, Bigfoot, Laurel Canyon, spiritual warfare, liminal spaces, theology, heart transformation—and more than a few things we still can’t explain—the Unrefined Podcast is signing off.For this final episode, Brandon is joined by Lindsy and Sandy to look back at how a couple of weird conversations became a podcast, how “Stairs in the Woods” helped launch the whole thing, and how years of exploring the seen and unseen changed the way they see the world, faith, people, and even themselves.They revisit some favorite episodes and guests, remember what happened behind the scenes, talk about the danger of going too far down the rabbit hole, and reflect on one of the biggest lessons Unrefined taught them: listen to people’s stories, hold some opinions loosely, leave room for mystery, and stay anchored to Jesus.But this isn’t simply about looking backward. Somewhere along the way, the conversation became a journey. The podcast may be ending, but “Unrefined” was never really about a podcast—or even the strange subjects they explored. It was about imperfect people willing to ask questions, grow, change their minds, and discover what all this information actually means for the way we live.So for now, we conclude our broadcast day.Good night, everybody.https://unrefined.life00:01:41 – We Now Conclude Our Broadcast Day00:03:50 – How Did Unrefined Even Get Started?00:05:53 – Stairs in the Woods: Where It All Began00:08:35 – When the Weirdness Started Getting Real00:10:49 – How the Podcast Changed the Way We See the World00:12:02 – Bigfoot, Cryptids & Opening Up to Possibility00:13:40 – A Bigger, More Complex Spiritual Realm00:15:32 – When the Supernatural Becomes Personal00:16:54 – Strong Opinions Held Loosely00:20:05 – Exploring Without Sensationalizing00:21:15 – The Episode That Almost Got Us Kicked Off YouTube00:22:22 – Where the Old Episodes Will Live00:23:46 – What Do We Do With Everything We Learned?00:24:38 – Listen to People’s Stories Before Judging Them00:27:50 – Nancy, Laurel Canyon & the Power of Telling Your Story00:28:56 – Looking Back at the Laurel Canyon Rabbit Hole00:30:25 – Behind the Scenes: The Episodes You Never Heard00:31:43 – Sandy, Editing & Four Years Behind the Curtain00:32:43 – Lindsy Confesses He’s Been AI the Whole Time00:34:19 – Coast to Coast & Other Early Influences00:35:00 – From Cryptids to Discipleship: Why Unrefined Was Different00:36:33 – The People and Friendships That Made It Worth It00:37:03 – When the Podcast Started Losing Its Shine00:38:55 – The Danger of Going Too Far Down the Rabbit Hole00:39:55 – What “Unrefined” Has Really Meant All Along00:41:20 – From a Conversation to a Journey00:42:14 – What Happens Next for Unrefined?00:43:00 – The End of the Unrefined Podcast

What if your heart was designed to experience God—not just know about Him?  Brandon welcomes certified Heart Physics coach Jennifer Johnson back to Unrefined for a practical conversation about moving from fear to faith and from simply knowing biblical truth intellectually to actually believing and living from it in the heart. Jennifer shares personal stories involving fear, relationships, forgiveness, family struggles, healing, and the hidden beliefs that can quietly shape our reactions and circumstances. Together they explore how repeated thoughts and emotions persuade the heart, why circumstances often expose what we genuinely believe, and how renewing the mind becomes an intentional process of gathering new evidence around the truth of God’s Word. They also unpack Dr. Jim Richards’ Heart Physics approach, including Essential Heart Physics, relaxation, meditation, the “secret place,” community, and learning to encounter God at the heart level. The central challenge is simple but profound: we are always persuading our hearts of something—so what are we persuading them to believe?Monday Meditation with Jennifer on zoom (free) @11am CST Monday'sReplays on Youtubehttps://www.jjohnsoncoach.com/Essential Heart Physics-Enroll in 1 month program- $29Timestamps00:00:04 – How Do You Persuade Your Heart?00:00:41 – Welcome Back Jennifer Johnson00:02:00 – From Fear to Faith00:05:20 – Building an Illusion & Gathering Evidence00:07:40 – How Thoughts Become Heart Beliefs00:10:03 – Forgiveness: Head Knowledge vs. Heart Knowledge00:12:21 – Sending Away the Pain00:14:42 – When “Fear Not” Becomes Real00:17:03 – Trusting God With Your Children00:19:15 – When God Exposes What the Heart Really Believes00:21:38 – Getting Real With God Without Shame00:24:05 – Brandon’s Journey Out of Religiosity00:26:17 – What Does It Mean to Persuade Your Heart?00:28:44 – How One Thought Becomes a Train of Thoughts00:31:07 – Religious Worrying & Collecting Evidence Against God00:33:10 – Mental Assent vs. Genuine Heart Belief00:35:24 – Healing, Pain & “Help My Unbelief”00:37:49 – Renewing the Mind Thought by Thought00:40:06 – Transformation Takes Effort00:42:30 – Secondary Gain & Hidden Heart Beliefs00:44:53 – You’re Always Persuading Your Heart00:47:16 – When Your First Reaction Begins to Change00:48:00 – What Is Heart Physics?00:49:26 – Essential Heart Physics & Heart Work00:51:44 – Why Essential Heart Physics Comes First00:54:03 – The Secret Place & Experiencing God00:56:06 – Jennifer’s Final Challenge & Prayer

Brandon and Lindsy invite Britton Smith, host of Pastor to Pioneer to share his journey from traditional church leadership into simple church and disciple-making movements—and the deeper transformation he discovered along the way. Britton opens up about the personal cost of leaving the institutional model, the impact on his marriage and identity, and the realization that simply changing church structures and discipleship tools doesn’t necessarily change the heart. The conversation explores performance-based Christianity, relational discipleship, dependence on the Holy Spirit, and the difference between doing the right things and actually becoming more like Jesus. Britton also shares a powerful supernatural encounter from his years in ministry and explains why true pioneering begins with what God is doing within us.to share his journey from traditional church leadership into simple church and disciple-making movements—and the deeper transformation he discovered along the way. Britton opens up about the personal cost of leaving the institutional model, the impact on his marriage and identity, and the realization that simply changing church structures and discipleship tools doesn’t necessarily change the heart. The conversation explores performance-based Christianity, relational discipleship, dependence on the Holy Spirit, and the difference between doing the right things and actually becoming more like Jesus. Britton also shares a powerful supernatural encounter from his years in ministry and explains why true pioneering begins with what God is doing within us.https://pastortopioneer.com/Timestamps 00:02:50 – Britton’s Journey  00:05:19 – Discovering the Supernatural 00:07:40 – An Unexpected Deliverance Encounter 00:09:43 – Are We Actually Making Disciples? 00:11:13 – Experimenting With House Church 00:13:37 – Discovering DMM & a Different Approach 00:15:55 – Why Changing the Model Wasn’t Enough 00:18:20 – COVID Exposes Dependency in the Church 00:20:47 – Church Split & Losing 90% of the Congregation 00:22:47 – Learning to Be the Church Without the Leaders 00:24:59 – Beyond Changing Models & Methods 00:27:26 – Marriage, Ministry & Facing His Own Brokenness 00:29:30 – When Ministry Relationships Become Transactional 00:31:54 – Realizing You Can’t Change People 00:34:16 – DMM Tools Without Heart Transformation 00:36:40 – Relational vs. Programmed Disciple Making 00:38:50 – Following Jesus Without Forcing the Outcome 00:41:11 – Are We Making Disciples or Gospel Spreaders? 00:43:30 – How Does Real Spiritual Maturity Happen? 00:45:50 – Obedience as Fruit, Not the Mechanism 00:48:09 – Identity After Leaving the Church System 00:50:12 – The Idol of Impact 00:52:35 – The Story Behind Pastor to Pioneer 00:55:01 – Helping Others Navigate the Transition 00:57:29 – The Internal Journey of a Pioneer 00:59:51 – The Wilderness Between Pastor and Pioneer 01:02:13 – A Powerful Lesson About God’s Love 01:04:17 – Britton’s Wildest Supernatural Encounter 01:06:39 – The Power Is in Jesus’ Name, Not Your Volume 01:09:01 – An Angel With a Flaming Sword 01:11:26 – Bringing Heart Transformation Into Discipleship 01:13:48 – You Can’t Give What You Don’t Have

What happens when following Jesus becomes more about maintaining the institution than actually being the body of Christ? Brandon and Lindsy sit down with returning guest Jonathan Brenneman for a provocative conversation about church, authority, leadership, supernatural ministry, and the difference between spectator Christianity and active discipleship. Drawing from his years of missionary work in Brazil, Jonathan shares stories of healings, deliverance, evangelism, and encounters with the Holy Spirit that often happen far outside traditional church services—in homes, neighborhoods, recovery houses, restaurants, barbecues, and everyday life.Together they challenge hierarchical models of church leadership and explore what the New Testament actually portrays when believers gather: shared meals, dialogue, spiritual gifts, mutual edification, and the participation of the whole body. The conversation moves into tithing, institutional structures, servant leadership, the priesthood of all believers, women in ministry, house churches, spiritual authority, and the dangers of allowing tradition or position to become more authoritative than Scripture. Ultimately, Jonathan calls believers not simply to leave something behind, but to recover a participatory Christianity where every believer is equipped to follow Jesus, serve others, speak the Word, and carry the presence and power of God into ordinary life.Website/blog: GoToHeavenNow.comEmail: [email protected]:00:28 – Welcome Back Jonathan Brenneman 00:02:27 – From Missions to Rethinking Church 00:04:55 – Healing, Miracles & Life Outside the Program 00:07:20 – Tithing, Grace & Leaving Institutional Expectations 00:09:41 – Ministry in the Streets of Brazil 00:12:00 – Manipulation, Money & the Spirit of Religion 00:14:22 – When Church Consumes the Mission 00:16:38 – Moving from Spectator to Participant 00:18:59 – The 59 “One Another” Commands 00:21:25 – Spiritual Gifts Around the Table 00:23:51 – Why Every Member Matters 00:26:10 – Rethinking Leadership & Authority 00:28:31 – Servant Leadership and Decentralized Church 00:33:16 – Does Authority Come from Position? 00:35:38 – Miracles Outside the Church Walls 00:37:57 – Is Revival Simply Normal Christianity? 00:40:16 – Receiving Jesus Through His Body 00:42:42 – Does Restricting Participation Quench the Spirit? 00:45:04 – Love, Miracles & Everyday Evangelism 00:47:25 – Evangelism at Carnival 00:49:43 – From Miracles to Making Disciples 00:52:07 – Worship, Friendship & Christian Community 00:54:29 – House Church, Heresy & Hierarchical Control 00:58:47 – Why Participation Helps Test Teaching 01:00:32 – Leaving Without Becoming Bitter 01:02:47 – Finding Biblical Fellowship 01:05:06 – Women and the Priesthood of All Believers 01:09:46 – Do Women Have a Priestly Duty to Speak? 01:11:58 – Women, Authority & Difficult New Testament Passages 01:14:21 – Phoebe, Junia & Women in Leadership 01:16:39 – Why Jesus Appeared First to Women 01:19:01 – Church History vs. the Teaching of Jesus 01:21:26 – Tradition, Scripture & Institutional Drift 01:23:49 – Religion vs. Relationship 01:25:52 – A Call Back to Participatory Christianity 01:28:17 – Jonathan’s Resources & Closing

What if the greatest evidence of spiritual maturity isn’t how much theology we know, but how deeply we love God and the people around us? Brandon and Lindsy sit down with Dr. Rob Reimer, author of The Tenderness of Jesus and Soul Care, for a deeply personal conversation about encountering Jesus beyond doctrine. Rob shares his dramatic conversion, his experience through a nine-month “dark night of the soul,” and how seasons of suffering and surrender reshaped his understanding of intimacy with God. Together they explore the tenderness of Jesus, God’s sovereignty and human freedom, dying to self, authentic humility, religious performance, soul care, and why biblical knowledge must become lived transformation. Rob also shares the story behind The Tenderness of Jesus, written originally for his own children, and explains why the cross and eternity provide essential lenses for understanding God’s goodness amid suffering. The conversation closes with recommended classics on spiritual formation, a remarkable healing story from Brazil, and a prayer that we would become people unmistakably marked by having been with Jesus.https://renewalinternational.org/Rob's book-https://amzn.to/46nj1nzTimestamps00:00:05 – Do You Love God and People More? 00:00:43 – Introducing Dr. Rob Reimer 00:03:06 – Rob’s Background and the Christian & Missionary Alliance 00:05:29 – A Life-Changing Encounter with Jesus 00:07:53 – Brandon’s Dark Night of the Soul 00:09:46 – What the Dark Night of the Soul Really Means 00:12:13 – Revival, Character and Dying to Self 00:14:32 – When the Presence of God Returned 00:16:56 – Sovereignty, Freedom and Human Choice 00:19:19 – God’s Goodness in a Broken World 00:21:40 – The Story Behind The Tenderness of Jesus00:23:59 – Writing to the Ones You Love About the One You Love00:26:19 – Soul Care, Freedom and Fullness in Christ00:28:39 – Emptying the Soul Before Filling It00:30:43 – Knowledge vs. Actual Spiritual Maturity00:33:05 – The Religious Spirit and the Condition of the Heart00:35:32 – Self-Focus, Ministry and Becoming Obsessed with Jesus00:37:38 – Authentic Humility and Weakness00:39:44 – Seeing God Through the Cross and Eternity00:42:07 – Suffering, Homesickness and Our Eternal Citizenship00:43:59 – Tenderness, Intimacy and the Holiness of God00:46:00 – Why God’s Love Leads to Transformation00:48:18 – Jesus’ Tenderness Toward Sinners00:50:41 – The Cross, Love and Dying to Self00:53:07 – Rob’s Favorite Classic Soul-Care Books00:55:14 – Ancient and Modern Spiritual Formation Resources00:57:36 – Theology, Encounter and Knowing Jesus00:59:53 – A Remarkable Healing in Brazil01:02:09 – Where to Find Rob and Closing Prayer

What if Christians didn’t have to choose between rejecting everything that sounds “New Age” and blindly accepting every alternative-health trend? Brandon sits down with biblical naturopathic doctor and frequency health strategist Dr. Brenda Chamness of Shalom Holistic Health for a wide-ranging conversation about frequency, bioresonance, holistic health, trauma, emotions, the biofield, muscle response testing, PEMF, red light, and other frequency-based modalities. Brenda shares her own remarkable journey through stage-four cancer and how it reshaped her understanding of the interconnectedness of spirit, soul, and body. Together they explore how Christians can distinguish between the properties of creation and claims of spiritual power, why fear is a poor substitute for discernment, and how identity, thought patterns, emotional health, and knowing God's voice fit into genuine wholeness. Ultimately, the conversation returns again and again to shalom: not chasing modalities as the answer, but learning to use available tools while remaining grounded in God's love, truth, and leading.https://www.infopathy.com/?invite=250725636https://www.shalomholistichealth.com/00:00:41 — Introducing Frequency, Holistic Health & Christian Discernment00:03:07 — Dr. Bren's Journey into Naturopathic Health00:05:30 — Cancer, Rife Therapy & Discovering Frequency00:09:45 — Shalom: Healing the Whole Person00:14:21 — Spirit, Soul & Body: Why Everything Is Connected00:18:31 — What Is Frequency?00:20:31 — Light, Sound & Frequency in the Human Body00:24:36 — Getting to the Root Causes of Dysfunction00:26:13 — Identity, Shame, Unworthiness & the Love of God00:28:21 — Looking for Healing in the Wrong Places00:30:43 — Bioresonance & Finding the Right Modality00:33:11 — The Problem with Compartmentalized Medicine00:37:59 — Alternative Medicine, Creation & the Western Mindset00:42:23 — Thoughts, the Subconscious & Physical Health00:44:18 — Discernment Without Fear00:47:28 — Learning to Recognize God's Voice00:49:17 — The Biofield, Energy & Muscle Response Testing00:53:54 — Remote Testing, Neutrality & Quantum Entanglement00:56:00 — How Other People's "Fields" Affect Us00:58:28 — Ancient Spiritual Practices & Modern Science01:00:46 — Frequency, Entrainment & the Body01:03:06 — Properties vs. Powers: A Christian Boundary for Discernment01:05:17 — Crystals, Metals & the Properties of Creation01:07:15 — EMFs, Frequency & the Modern Environment01:09:34 — Harmonizing EMFs & Looking at the Fruit01:11:43 — Thoughts, Emotions & Your "Internal Pharmacy"01:14:11 — The Placebo Effect & the Body's Capacity to Heal01:16:31 — Brenda's Cancer Story & a Supernatural Encounter01:20:15 — When Healing Tools Become Idols01:22:37 — Making Informed Choices About Treatment01:27:31 — Cancer Returns & Hearing God's Direction01:31:26 — Mindset, Emotions & Healing01:33:49 — Bringing Fear, Anger & Disappointment to God01:36:14 — Knowing God's Voice in an Age of Deception01:38:10 — Biblical Principles as a Plumb Line01:40:29 — When Healing Becomes "Spiritual Archaeology"01:42:54 — Simplicity, the Courts of Heaven & Religious Complexity01:45:15 — When Protocols Replace Trust01:48:26 — Fear, Emotional Frequency & the Body01:50:48 — The Spirit of Truth vs. the Fear of Deception01:52:45 — Grace, Identity & Living as Sons and Daughters01:55:11 — Receiving God's Love Before Giving It Away01:57:04 — Shalom Holistic Health & Brenda's Approach01:59:16 — Frequency Modalities & Infopathy02:01:42 — Walking in Shalom in a Chaotic World02:04:01 — Why "Good Vibes" Aren't Enough02:06:01 — Some Things May Be Fine—but Not Fine for You 

Brandon and Lindsy welcome Vicki Joy Anderson back to continue their conversation on spiritual warfare—but once again, the discussion takes an unexpected turn. Rather than focusing on dramatic demonic encounters, they explore the quieter battlefield of confusion, spiritual fatigue, distraction, and false doctrine. The conversation moves through discernment, the dangers of chasing fringe topics for fascination, the responsibility of Christian teachers and podcasters, the gospel of the Kingdom, Gnosticism in modern Christianity, the meaning of ekklesia, and what Scripture actually presents as humanity’s ultimate hope. Throughout, they emphasize testing what we believe, keeping Jesus at the center, and recognizing that deceptive doctrine may be one of the most subtle forms of spiritual warfare.They Only Come Out At Night BookFrom Eden to AI Bookhttps://www.vickijoyanderson.com/Her mom's book! Harps Unhung-->https://amzn.to/4wqqgpthttps://instagram.com/vickijoyauthor00:03:00 – Ephesians 6 & the Armor of God00:05:13 – Two Extremes of Spiritual Warfare00:07:31 – The Covert Battlefield: Confusion & False Doctrine00:09:55 – Testing the Spirits & Discernment00:12:19 – Battle Fatigue, Thoughts & the Domino Effect00:14:39 – Fringe Fascination, “Fluff” & Red-Pill Overdose00:17:05 – When Exploring Darkness Serves the Gospel00:19:21 – The Temptation of Sensationalism in Podcasting00:21:46 – Teachers, Influencers & Greater Accountability00:24:10 – The Unseen Impact of Faithfulness00:28:52 – Bad Teaching & Real-World Consequences00:31:16 – Have Christians Inherited Bad Theology?00:33:35 – Jesus, the Road to Emmaus & Discipleship00:35:55 – The Simplicity of the Gospel00:38:15 – What Actually Unites the Church?00:40:38 – The Gospel of Salvation vs. the Gospel of the Kingdom00:43:04 – Covenant, Allegiance & What It Means to Follow Jesus00:45:29 – Gnosticism & the Christian View of the World00:47:46 – Ekklesia: Church, Assembly or Government?00:50:10 – Why the New Testament Confronts Gnosticism00:52:29 – Resurrection, the Body & Becoming Fully Human00:54:42 – Eden, the New Earth & Humanity’s Future00:57:08 – Rethinking Hell, Heaven & Human Destiny00:59:32 – Are We Really Going to Spend Eternity in Heaven?01:02:00 – The New Creation as God’s Temple01:04:20 – Ancient Context & the Layers Added to Christianity01:06:38 – False Doctrine as Spiritual Warfare01:09:01 – Vicki’s Books & Where to Find Her

Author Heather L. L. Fitzgerald joins Brandon, Lindsy, and Jen to explore the redemptive power of fantasy, storytelling, and imagination. Heather shares the inspiration behind The Tethered World Chronicles, a Christian fantasy series filled with Bigfoot, giants, hidden realms, family, faith, and adventure. The conversation examines the lingering effects of the satanic panic, the difference between discernment and fear, and whether Christians can engage fantasy without embracing the darkness sometimes associated with it. Brandon also shares how fantasy literature helped him through depression, restored his sense of wonder, and reawakened his belief in a supernatural God. From Narnia and Harry Potter to fairy lore, the Nephilim, childlike faith, creativity, and imposter syndrome, this episode considers how good stories can open our eyes to hope, beauty, courage, and the larger story God is telling.https://www.heatherllfitzgerald.com/Amazon link to the series:http://tiny.cc/ett7101Link to Realm Makershttps://www.bookishkop.com/blog post mentioned about fantasy Timestamps00:00:06 – Good Fantasy, Hope, and Seeing Beyond the Present 00:00:28 – Introducing Heather L. L. Fitzgerald 00:03:12 – The Tethered World Chronicles Explained 00:05:06 – Bigfoot, Hidden Realms, Giants, and Eden 00:06:49 – Growing Up During the Satanic Panic 00:10:03 – How Heather’s Family Inspired the Books 00:14:55 – Christian Pushback Against Fantasy 00:17:59 – Good Nephilim and David’s Mighty Men 00:20:48 – Fantasy as a Parable on Steroids 00:23:42 – Fairy Bread and Gifts from the Fae 00:25:39 – Discernment, Convictions, and Gray Areas 00:26:51 – Harry Potter, Darkness, and Redemptive Themes 00:31:54 – Spell Books, Superheroes, and Christian Hypocrisy 00:35:37 – How Fantasy Helped Brandon Survive Depression 00:38:00 – Rediscovering the Supernatural Through Stories 00:40:09 – How Fantasy Made the Bible Feel Real Again 00:42:18 – Fantasy, Childlike Faith, and C. S. Lewis 00:44:07 – Joy, Nostalgia, and Eating the Meat 00:45:11 – Stories as a Framework for Wonder 00:46:46 – Phones, Doomscrolling, and the Loss of Imagination 00:47:34 – Jesus as the Ultimate Storyteller 00:48:58 – Writing, Creativity, and Imposter Syndrome 00:52:27 – Spiritual Themes Heather Discovered After Writing 00:53:02 – Writing the Third Book with God 00:56:35 – Heather’s Favorite Book in the Series 01:01:27 – Advice for Aspiring Fantasy Writers 01:03:03 – Realm Makers and Christian Speculative Fiction 01:04:23 – Becoming Who God Says You Are 01:06:31 – What Heather Is Writing Next 01:08:38 – The C. S. Lewis Writers Conference 01:10:35 – Where to Find Heather and Her Books 01:11:05 – A Future Narnia-Inspired Story

In this thought-provoking rewind episode, Brandon is joined by Amy from Eyes on the Right to explore biblical patterns surrounding the last days, the increase of knowledge, technological acceleration, spiritual deception, AI, transhumanism, UFO narratives, and the importance of discernment. Rather than encouraging fear or sensationalism, this conversation challenges believers to recognize recurring biblical patterns, remain anchored in God's Word, and rely on the Holy Spirit to navigate an increasingly confusing world. Above all, this episode is a call to pursue wisdom over speculation and Christ over conspiracy.Timestamps00:00:28 – Rewind Introduction: Why This Conversation Matters 00:01:39 – As in the Days of Noah: Setting the Stage 00:04:00 – What Really Happened in the Days of Noah? 00:06:28 – Gnosticism, Occult Knowledge & the Pursuit of Hidden Wisdom 00:07:07 – Daniel 12:4 and the Increase of Knowledge 00:08:53 – "Knowledge Is Power" and the End-Time Deception 00:09:41 – The Danger of Chasing Every Rabbit Trail 00:11:14 – When Christians Begin Questioning Scripture 00:13:36 – Wisdom, Sorrow & Solomon's Warning 00:14:18 – Genesis 6, DNA, and the Days of Noah 00:16:01 – Gender, Transhumanism & the First Chapters of Genesis 00:18:26 – A Seed War: Altering God's Creation 00:20:49 – GMOs, Food, and the Pattern of Corruption 00:21:31 – Is Satan Deceived by His Own Lies? 00:23:09 – Luciferian Narratives and Reprobate Minds 00:25:22 – AI, Ancient Technology & the Return of Old Patterns 00:27:42 – The Metaverse, Phones & Losing Touch with Creation 00:29:45 – History Repeats: The Pattern Before the Flood 00:30:53 – UFOs, Disclosure & End-Time Deception 00:34:23 – Truthers, Psyops & Learning Discernment 00:36:46 – Don't Fall for the "Everything Is a Psyop" Trap 00:38:57 – Information Overload and Spiritual Distraction 00:41:23 – Angelic Beings, Hybrids & Ancient Mysteries 00:43:00 – Giants, DNA & the Shroud of Turin Theory 00:45:10 – Relics, Cursed Objects & Spiritual Counterfeits 00:47:27 – Controlled Opposition & Testing Every Spirit 00:49:52 – Taking a Break from the Fringe 00:52:16 – Countermeasures, Spiritual Warfare & Staying Grounded 00:54:28 – What Might the Antichrist Actually Look Like? 00:59:12 – A Physical Antichrist, Patterns & Biblical Consistency 01:01:31 – Torahism, the Law & the Finished Work of Christ 01:03:53 – Patterns, Discernment & Avoiding Deception 01:06:13 – Law, Grace & the Difference Between Justice and Legalism 01:07:58 – Final Encouragement: Stay Anchored in Christ 01:08:31 – Amy's Closing Prayer

Government hearings. Whistleblowers. UFO disclosure. Alien claims. Christians calling everything demonic.But what if the real answer is far more complicated?Dr. Jonathan Kendall joins Brandon to explore the growing evidence surrounding UFOs and UAPs while challenging the simplistic explanations often offered from every side of the debate.Together they discuss government evidence, consciousness, high strangeness, extradimensional realities, ancient encounters, quantum physics, biblical worldview, and why the phenomenon may force us to rethink how we understand reality itself.Rather than choosing between "aliens" or "demons," this conversation asks whether we've been asking the wrong questions all along.Amazon - New Bookhttps://x.com/JKendallMDhttps://jonathankendallmd.com/Timestamps:00:28 Introduction and welcome back Dr. Jonathan Kendall02:41 Jonathan's lifelong interest in UFOs and the paranormal03:56 His grandfather's mysterious West Virginia UFO encounter05:27 Has Jonathan ever had a UFO experience himself?07:20 What convinced him UFOs are a real phenomenon?09:55 Project Blue Book and the overwhelming evidence13:31 The strongest evidence for UAPs today15:37 Government secrecy, disclosure, and finding the truth17:08 Are we actually moving toward disclosure?19:14 Extraterrestrial vs. extradimensional vs. spiritual explanations21:02 Beyond Cartesian dualism: a new way of understanding reality23:08 The case for the extraterrestrial hypothesis25:04 Why Jonathan ultimately leans toward the extradimensional view27:20 Separating genuine encounters from misidentifications29:28 Super Psi, consciousness, and paranormal experiences31:49 Why reality isn't simply "either/or"32:47 Are aliens really demons?34:37 Logic, conspiracies, and the danger of flattening reality36:58 Jacques Vallée, Diana Pasulka, and Christian perspectives39:14 What Jonathan hopes readers take away from his book40:41 Jinn, fairies, folklore, and ancient parallels44:00 Biblical examples of the physical and spiritual overlapping45:55 Time travel, quantum physics, and the transfiguration47:18 Where to connect with Jonathan and his work48:04 Thoughts on the new disclosure movie49:11 "We need to get away from the idea that UFOs are demons."49:56 Jonathan's final encouragement to Christians