rule to distinctiveness, the 4 Ps, mass marketing, luxury brands, purpose and AI, this conversation explores the fundamental marketing principles they both believe every marketer should understand.There are still plenty of disagreements (and more than a few jokes at each other's expense), but this is a rare opportunity to hear two of the industry's biggest thinkers build a shared foundation for modern marketing.This episode is brought to you by System1. Download their creator effectiveness report here: https://system1group.com/the-creator-effectiveness-playbookTimestamps00:00:00 Start00:00:40 - Teaser00:02:08 - Mark Ritson on Champagne00:03:42 - When did Mark and Byron meet00:05:36 - Why Byron and Mark are coming together after a decade00:07:25 - When Jon met Byron00:08:57 - Is AI more brand centric than humans?00:11:08 - Mark and Byron’s criticism on their Cannes talk00:12:49 - The problem with academia00:13:45 - What do marketers still not understand about How Brands Grow00:18:06 - You are not the customer00:20:56 - Distinctiveness vs relative differentiation00:28:45 - Why we need to control all 4 Ps00:33:10 - The 95:5 rule00:39:20 - Why Byron doesn’t like the term “Long Term”00:42:41 - The role of mass marketing00:46:40 - How to do mass marketing as a challenger brand00:53:45 - How long does it take to build a proper brand00:56:10 - What does Byron think of P&G00:58:47 - The power of distinctive brand assets01:03:42 - Why brand anniversaries are pointless01:04:40 - How luxury brands grow01:09:16 - The role of purpose01:16:58 - The dark lord of penetration01:18:17 - What pet name does Byron have for Mark01:23:17 - Closing remarks