We spoke with Danny Shahar about the arguments in his new book, Why it's OK to Eat Meat. As a vegan myself, I thought his arguments were quite thought-provoking, and surprisingly sympathetic to the concerns of vegans and vegetarians given the title. We also talk about the coordination problem and individual action in activism, why people sometimes agree with multiple positions that contradict each other, how to improve your red beans and rice game, and more. Check it out! Show Notes: Follow us on Twitter at @FoodThoughtPod, and you can drop us a line at ThoughtAboutFood on Gmail. Rate our podcast and leave us a review wherever you get your podcasts! It helps people find the show. Danny Shahar teaches in the Public Policy, Ethics & Law program at the University of New Orleans and is a member of the Urban Entrepreneurship & Policy Institute. Danny's new book is Why It's OK to Eat Meat, and is published by Routledge. Danny also shared a recipe with us! In our talk he argued strongly for making a dark roux, so be sure to listen to that as well. As he says:  "For my recipe contribution, here's how to make vegan red beans and rice that even meat-eating New Orleanians will happily consume:   Ingredients 1/4 cup vegetable oil 1/4 cup all-purpose flour 1 large onion 1 green bell pepper 3 stalks celery 1 clove garlic, minced 1 tsp. salt 1 tsp. smoked paprika 1 tsp. garlic powder 1/2 tsp. ground black pepper 1/2 tsp. onion powder 1/2 tsp. oregano 1/2 tsp. thyme 1/4 tsp. chipotle powder 1 bay leaf 1 lb. dried kidney beans 6 cups water 2 tsp. white vinegar 1/2 tsp. liquid smoke 3 green onions, sliced 1/4 cup flat-leaf parsley, chopped White rice   Instructions Combine the oil and flour in a heavy pot or Dutch oven and cook over medium heat until the color of peanut butter, stirring constantly. (This will take a while). Stir in the onions, bell pepper, and celery and cook until translucent. Add the garlic, salt, smoked paprika, garlic powder, black pepper, onion powder, oregano, thyme, chipotle powder, and bay leaf and stir for about a minute. Stir in the kidney beans, water, vinegar, and liquid smoke. Bring to a boil and cook over low heat, stirring every half hour or so, until the beans are very soft. (Make sure to scrape up the bottom of the pot so you don't end up with a burned-on layer.) When the beans are ready, stir in the green onions and parsley and remove from heat. Serve over white rice with a Louisiana-style hot sauce (ideally Crystal Extra Hot)."   The intro and outro music is "Whiskey Before Breakfast" which is both a great traditional song and something we can all agree is a good thing to do, whatever our views of how much meat to have at breakfast are. It was performed and shared by The Dan River Ramblers under a Creative Commons license.

We spoke with Galina Kallio about regenerative agriculture, relationships of humans to the soil, and alternative forms of organizing self-reliant food economies Show Notes: Follow us on Twitter at @FoodThoughtPod, and you can drop us a line at ThoughtAboutFood on Gmail. Rate our podcast and leave us a review wherever you get your podcasts! It helps people find the show. Galina Kallio is a co-founder of the Untame Research Lab which we talked about in the interview. Check it out! It hasn't yet been fully translated to English, but the google translation works well, and an English version is coming in the future. Galina was also kind enough to share a recipe with us! It's for a vegan cabbage dish called solyanka. As Galina says, "My grand-aunt used to make me this when I was a little girl, and I still remember the taste of this dish made with fresh cabbage from our allotment garden. The original recipe included sausages, but I have modified this to my current dietary habits. Cabbage (preferably white but you can vary with other colours & varieties) Carrots Garlic Onions Chili (if you like, not necessary)  Salt & Pepper Cut Cut everything in thin slices, and carrots you can grate. Use your favourite oil (olive, rapeseed)  and fry (lightly) chili & garlic in the pan, add onions. When onions have softened and gained a bit of colour add cabbage and stir & fry, after the cabbage has softened a bit add carrots. If the ingredients are dry you can add some water or broth (e.g. nettle broth!). Add salt and pepper. Stir until ingredients almost resemble 'stew' – they must be soft but not too soft! If you want to make this a bit more filling, you can use e.g. beans, tofu, or mushrooms. This can be used as a meal on its own or as a side dish." The intro and outro music is "Whiskey Before Breakfast" which is both a great traditional song and an interesting way to have a relationship with agriculture and the non-human world! It was performed and shared by The Dan River Ramblers under a Creative Commons license.

We spoke with Clement Loo about food justice and food security, including food insecurity among college students, and how academics can be engaged with communities. We also talked about his podcast, Just Sustainability. Show Notes: Follow us on Twitter at @FoodThoughtPod, and you can drop us a line at ThoughtAboutFood on Gmail. Rate our podcast and leave us a review wherever you get your podcasts! It helps people find the show. Clement Loo hosts one of my favorite podcasts, Just Sustainability. You can listen to it wherever you get your podcasts, or on its own website. I suggest listening to the other half of our conversation there when he interviewed me! Clement was kind enough to share a recipe that he grew up eating, updated with modern cooking technology: "Below is how I cook jook (which is the Cantonese name for Congee) in my Instant Pot.    This is a recipe for a dish that's a cultural food for my family, something that I really hated when I was a kid, but has now become a comfort food (particularly when I don't feel well).    When I think about jook I think about my identity as a Chinese-Canadian/American from a family that has inconsistently hung onto Cantonese (or, to be more specific, Taishanese) culture. Our ancestors first immigrated to Canada and China in the latter-half of the1800s and over that time my family has developed a hodge-podge of traditions that mixes Chinese, Anglo-Canadian, and Euro-American. This recipe, while in some ways is super traditional, is executed in a way that would be probably unrecognizable (and would be probably considered incorrect) to someone from Guangzhou.    Ingredients (serves anywhere between 2 to 4 people): 1 cup of long-grained white rice (though medium grain rice works as well) 6 to 8 cups of water (depending if you like a thicker or runnier gruel) 1 Chinese sausage (i.e. lap cheong) finely diced (optional and fine to exclude if you're a vegetarian or vegan) 1 chicken or 1/2 turkey carcass (or, if one is without a carcass or don't eat carcasses, you can replace the water with an equal amount of vegetable stock or chicken stock) pickled vegetables to taste, finely diced (I tend to use kimchi because it's the easiest to find but my dad uses some sort of Chinese pickles -- I think pickled radishes) 1 century egg, finely diced (also can be excluded if one is vegan or just is thrown off by fermented eggs that are dyed black -- they have a strong sort of acetone/ammonia sort of undernote so consider yourself warned if you haven't tried them before. That said, they are terrific if you know what to expect -- they have a really complex and unique flavor) ginger to taste, peeled and finely chopped salt to taste (I tend to salt just before serving because it's hard to tell prior how much seasoning the jook will require) 1/8 teaspoon of five spice   Instructions: I put everything into the Instant Pot and set it to pressure cook for 30 minutes followed by a slow pressure release (i.e. I don't release the pressure but wait for it to reduce pressure on its own). Then I scoop it into a big bowl and eat it. My dad doesn't do it that way. He wouldn't add the pickles or century egg into the pot and, instead, add them as a garnish just prior to serving. Doing it my way is easier, doing it my dad's way would provide you with more textural variety (which some people might appreciate). If you use a carcass, be careful to look out for small bones when you're eating." The intro and outro music is "Whiskey Before Breakfast" which is both a great traditional song and a great accompaniment to listening to Clement's podcast in the morning! It was performed and shared by The Dan River Ramblers under a Creative Commons license.

This episode we spoke with Jennifer Molidor about food justice and sustainable agriculture, and how that can be pursued in public policy, activism, and changing individual diets. We also talk about pursuing alternatives to academic careers. It's a lot of fun, and really interesting. Show Notes: Follow us on Twitter at @FoodThoughtPod, and you can drop us a line at ThoughtAboutFood on Gmail. Rate our podcast and leave us a review wherever you get your podcasts! It helps people find the show. Jennifer Molidor is a senior food campaigner at the Center for Biological Diversity. That organization also has a website devoted to food issues called Take Extinction Off Your Plate, and you can follow her on Twitter @JenniferMolidor Jennifer was kind enough to share a recipe with us. It's a family-favorite vegan sandwich, and I can report it's great! Here's what she had to say: "I had a hard time choosing something, from power bowls to smoothies to my renowned guacamole, but I’ll go with a simple sammich because mom-life means a lot of sandwiches that are packed with protein and deliciousness. It’s a smushed chickpea sandwich and measurements are all to taste: Toasted bread Plant-based mayo Lightly toasted mustard seeds Dijon mustard Small chopped red onion Small chopped leek 1 tsp Himalayan salt 1 pinch black pepper 1-2 cans of chickpeas, drained 1 cup chopped celery 1 cup chopped pickles 4 cloves minced fresh garlic 2 tsp apple cider vinegar 2 tsp lemon juice Pinch of cayenne   Use flavors to taste, but be generous with salt and mayo. Mash chickpeas, mustard and mustard seeds, add in onions, garlic, leek, pickles, celery, and other spices (mash with fork or masher). Add in mayo, lemon juice, vinegar. Taste, adjust as necessary. If you want, you can add nori sheets or yeast to make it more savory/tuna-like. Add parsley or cilantro if you’re into that kind-a thing. This is great alone or in sandwiches and lasts a few days refrigerated. I add avocado slices and tomatoes on my sandwiches with this to keep it juicy." The intro and outro music is "Whiskey Before Breakfast" which is both a great traditional song and a great starter before a chickpea sandwich in the morning. It was performed and shared by The Dan River Ramblers under a Creative Commons license.

This episode we spoke with Shanti Chu about the ways our identity and what we eat interact. We also talk about the different ways philosophers can talk about philosophical issues inside and outside academia. Show Notes: Follow us on Twitter at @FoodThoughtPod, and you can drop us a line at ThoughtAboutFood on Gmail. Leave us a review wherever you get your podcasts! It helps people find the show. Shanti Chu is a philosopher living and working in Chicago. To see some of the cool things she's working on, you can visit her personal page, her vegetarian/vegan blog ChiVeg, her YouTube page, and her Instagram. Shanti was kind enough to share a recipe with us that's meaningful to her -- Hearty Tofu Paprikash. As she says, "Being half Hungarian, I grew up eating delicious and flavorful Hungarian food.  My Hungarian upbringing has influenced me to the extent of using Paprika in most of my dishes because I can’t live without the flavor. While some Hungarian classics are meat-heavy, they can easily be veganized.  For example, chicken paprikash is a staple of the Hungarian diet and it is a very remarkable, comforting dish but it has a lot of meat and dairy in it.  Just because you are vegetarian or vegan doesn’t mean you have to stop eating your Hungarian favorites.  Why not make this Hungarian staple vegetarian friendly with all the scrumptious tomato/paprika flavor?" The intro and outro music is "Whiskey Before Breakfast" which is both a great traditional song and a great way for me to express my identity. It was performed and shared by The Dan River Ramblers under a Creative Commons license.

This episode we spoke with Tony Chackal about "supper clubs" -- how you can start one, and the political, social, and cultural implications of the practice of providing food as a host or receiving food as a guest. Show Notes: Follow us on Twitter at @FoodThoughtPod, and you can drop us a line at ThoughtAboutFood on Gmail. Leave us a review wherever you get your podcasts! It helps people find the show. Tony Chackal is a philosopher and Visiting Assistant Professor in the Philosophy Department at Miami University. Tony kindly agreed to create a playlist to listen to with your supper club. Take a listen, and if you start a supper club, let us know! The book I couldn't come up with the name of was obviously Bowling Alone The intro and outro music is "Whiskey Before Breakfast" which is both a great traditional song and a possible inspiration for a "pre-breakfast club" that you could also consider starting. It was performed and shared by The Dan River Ramblers under a Creative Commons license.

This episode we spoke with Ilana Braverman about the Better Food Foundation and how to affect people's choices around food. Show Notes: Follow us on Twitter at @FoodThoughtPod, and you can drop us a line at ThoughtAboutFood on Gmail. Leave us a review! It helps people find the show. Ilana Braverman is Director of Outreach for the Better Food Foundation, and leads the DefaultVeg campaign. You can listen to Ilana's Tedx talk here, Moving Beyond a Hamburger Default World. You can visit the Better Food Foundation's website to get involved, or the direct site for their project DefaultVeg. The intro and outro music is "Whiskey Before Breakfast" which is both a great traditional song and an interesting morning default. It was performed and shared by The Dan River Ramblers under a Creative Commons license.

This episode we spoke with Keith McHenry about Food Not Bombs, Anarchism, and the radical potential of feeding people as a political act. Show Notes: Follow us on Twitter at @FoodThoughtPod, and you can drop us a line at ThoughtAboutFood on Gmail. Leave us a review! It helps people find the show. Keith McHenry is one of the founders of Food Not Bombs Keith has written a number of books, including Hungry For Peace: How you can help end poverty and war with Food Not Bombs and The Anarchist Cookbook (not the one you're thinking of, but a "real anarchist cookbook" as Keith says). To find a local Food Not Bombs near you, or for resources on starting one, check out the Food Not Bombs website. The one nearest to me is the Food Not Bombs RGV branch. The intro and outro music is "Whiskey Before Breakfast" which is both a great traditional song and not an impediment to getting served by Food Not Bombs if you're hungry, because they serve anyone, sober or not. It was performed and shared by The Dan River Ramblers under a Creative Commons license.

This episode we spoke with Christopher Carter about faith, black veganism, and soul food. Show Notes: Follow us on Twitter at @FoodThoughtPod, and you can drop us a line at ThoughtAboutFood on Gmail. Leave us a review! It helps people find the show. Christopher Carter is an Assistant Professor and Assistant Chair of the Theology and Religious Studies department at the University of San Diego and a Faith in Food Fellow at Farm Forward. Christopher's forthcoming book is The Spirit of Soul Food: Race, Faith, and Food Justice from the University of Illinois Press. Christopher mentions that his use of Black Veganism is directly inspired by Aph Ko and Syl Ko's book Aphro-ism: Essays on Pop Culture, Feminism, and Black Veganism from Two Sisters Christopher shared a recipe for red beans and rice, one of the first that he successfully "veganized." This also counts as a teaser for his book, since this recipe and others are included throughout the text (something I wish more academic books on food would do!): Red Beans & Rice For me, a Black man whose American ancestry begins in Mississippi and Louisiana, the foundational soul food dish will always be red beans and rice. This recipe was a staple in my childhood, something we could eat on special occasions and when our budget for food was slim. For me, red beans and rice feels like home. When the pervasive reality of racism knocks me offcenter, red beans and rice can be the ground from which I can regain my sense of self and remember myself as beloved by my community and beloved by the Ultimate source of compassion. Despite all the stress, micro, and macro aggressions I may face, sitting down at the dinner table and eating red beans gives me a little something to help me keep-on-keeping-on, as the elders would say. If we think about the history of Black foodways as a window into the racism that was and continues to be foundational to our domestic food system, we realize that Black foodways have a deeper meaning that can easily be overlooked. Knowing this history and finding ourselves within this story prompts theological reflection and response. Decolonial analysis seeks to unsettle the notion that theory and praxis are necessarily separate from each other—theory is thinking, and thinking is doing, and praxis necessarily requires thought-reflection on actions. Both my Christian faith and my identity as Black man influence the analysis, arguments, and constructive proposals that I put forth in this book. What some might see as a provocative suggestion, black veganism, is rooted in these two identities. However, what follows in this book is not a straightforward argument for veganism. My own path to veganism was not straightforward, it  was a complicated and challenging transition and it would be foolish to expect otherwise from anyone else but especially Black people given the ways that our foodway is racialized. Black veganism is a process of being and becoming, knowing who we are and what tools we need to use so that Black foodways can be a source of abundant life for Black communities. When I became vegetarian and subsequently transitioned to veganism, I feared that my evolving diet compromised my ability to feel like I was a part of my community when we sat down for meals. Moreover, if I could not eat red beans and rice, I wondered, “what kind of Black person would I be,” could I still claim to be standing on the culinary shoulders of my ancestors? Finding a vegan version of this dietary staple opened my eyes to the creativity one can have cooking soul food. Preparing it and serving it to my family revealed that this delicious version conjures the same familial memories as its nonhuman animal meat-based alternative, and thus possesses the strength to become a foundational family dish too. Because of this, red beans and rice is the first dish we set out upon our vegan soul food table. Ingredients: Two 15oz. cans of Kidney beans, rinsed and drained 4 cups of broth made from Better than Bouillon Vegetable base 4 vegan sausages (I highly recommend Field Roast Apple Sage, Italian, or Mexican Chipotle) 1 tablespoon of grapeseed oil (or any high heat oil) 1 large white onion, diced medium 6 six-inch celery stalks, diced small 6 garlic cloves, minced 1 teaspoon chili powder 1 teaspoon Cajun seasoning 1 teaspoon dried thyme 1 red bell pepper, cored, seeded, and chopped ½ cup of green onions Directions Heat a 4-5 quart stew pot over high heat, add the oil and wait until it shimmers. Add the onion and celery and cook, stirring with a wooden spoon, until translucent, about 10 minutes. Add the garlic and cook about 2 minutes more. Add the sausage, chili powder, thyme, broth, beans, and bell pepper. Bring to a simmer and cook for 10-15 minutes, stirring frequently. Season with salt, pepper, and your favorite hot sauce. Serve over a bed of rice, garnish with the green onions. The intro and outro music is "Whiskey Before Breakfast" which is both a great traditional song and an interesting interpretation of "praxis." It was performed and shared by The Dan River Ramblers under a Creative Commons license.

This episode we spoke with Megan Birk about the history of "Poor Farms" in the US. Show Notes: Follow us on Twitter at @FoodThoughtPod, and you can drop us a line at ThoughtAboutFood on Gmail. Leave us a review! It helps people find the show. Megan Birk is an Associate Professor of History at UTRGV. Megan has written the book Fostering on the Farm: Child Placement in the Rural Midwest, and her new book is The Fundamental Institution: Poverty, Social Welfare, and Agriculture in Poor Farms which is under contract at University of Illinois Press. The main article about Poor Farms which we discussed in the interview was The better the farm, the better the food: institutional diet, agricultural practices, and nutrition in U.S. almshouses Megan shared a recipe for Chocolate Mayonnaise Cake (!) Here's what she has to say about it: "This is a cake that my mom used to make regularly when I was a kid, and I make it for friends, family, and holidays because it's delicious and people love it.  It's also very Midwestern to use mayonnaise as a shortcut in baking  Chocolate Mayonnaise Cake  1 and a half cups white sugar 1 and a half cups mayo (do not use miracle whip)  4 TBS baking coco  ---- mix together  3 cups cake flour 3 tsp baking soda 1/4 tsp salt  ----- add these to mix above 1 and a half cups warm water 2 tsp vanilla ----- add to above and mix ---- the mixture will be pretty loose (or runny) that's ok I grease and flour a cake pan before pouring in the mix and baking at 350 degrees for 25-30 on the top rack Frost with whatever you're into, I don't make my own frosting because I hate the texture of powdered sugar on my hands (I know I'm a weirdo) " The intro and outro music is "Whiskey Before Breakfast" which is both a great traditional song and a good thing to try before baking Chocolate Mayonnaise Cake. It was performed and shared by The Dan River Ramblers under a Creative Commons license.