all right hello00:03humans good to see some of you turning00:07up i see some numbers starting to pop00:09i’m glad to see it00:10glad to see you all uh showing up and00:13i’d love to hear from you00:14just pop on in the comments and tell me00:17who’s tuning in and where you are and00:20you know how the weather is where you00:21are i think here in new york we actually00:23had a little00:24resurgence of summer the last day or two00:26and it’s kind of funny because00:28everybody’s all00:29into the pumpkin spice latte season and00:31now we’ve got a little return of 8000:33degrees and00:33it’s kind of not really congruous so00:36yeah let me know who’s out there00:39glad to see oh those numbers are really00:41popping up so give me some00:43give me some comments i want to hear00:44from you00:46you already know that you are tuned into00:47the tech humanist show00:49and this is a multimedia format program00:51exploring how data and technology00:53shape the human experience and i am your00:55host kate o’neil and00:57so i’m excited today i’m going to be00:59telling you all about01:00the guests who’s tuned in i suspect01:02that’s a lot of the reason why some of01:03you are tuned in01:05uh but but so far no comments i know i’m01:08seeing the numbers so you guys are just01:09a silent bunch out there you’re not01:11gonna be playful and interactive01:13come on you gotta bring it i’ll start01:16introducing our guest01:17and you keep you keep bringing those01:18comments i bet there’s just some01:19elaborate comments happening like you’re01:22you’re typing novels in the comment01:24sections that is what’s happening01:29well here we go so today we are talking01:32with marcus whitney01:33who is founding partner of jumpstart01:35health investors the most active venture01:37capital firm in america focused on01:39innovative healthcare companies with a01:41portfolio of a hundred companies01:43he’s also co-founder and minority owner01:45of major league soccer team01:47nashville soccer club that’s a really01:49cool detail don’t you think01:51uh we’re gonna talk about that marcus is01:52the author of the recently launched and01:54best-selling book01:55create and orchestrate about claiming01:57your creative power through01:58entrepreneurship01:59he is also the producer and host of02:01marcus whitney live02:03an interview show live streamed monday02:05through friday every day02:0612 central on facebook youtube linkedin02:09twitter and twitch02:10i stream to twitch too and nobody ever02:12tunes in i’m going to ask him if he gets02:13any02:14viewers on twitch and marcus whitney’s02:16audio universe a podcast on all major02:18platforms02:19he’s also got some other credentials02:20that he’s asked me not to read but i’m02:22going to tell you02:23he’s a member of a bunch of boards he’s02:25gotten a bunch of honors and02:26recognitions this guy he’s really cool02:29and i’ve known him for02:30you know somewhere in the in the realm02:32of a decade02:33super excited to to bring this02:35discussion to you so audience start02:36getting those questions ready i don’t02:38care how shy you’re feeling in your02:39comment field02:40i want you to start warming up your02:42typing fingers02:43get ready for our outstanding guest oh02:45and please do note that as a live show02:47we’ll do our best to vet comments and02:49and feel them in real time uh we might02:52not get to all of them but we02:53i so appreciate you being here and02:55participating in the show so02:57with that please welcome my very dear03:00friend03:01marcus whitney marcus you are live on03:04the tech humanist show03:05sweet hey kate hey oh my gosh what a03:09thrill this is such a fun thing to be03:11able to03:12bring our real life friendship into this03:14virtual format03:16yep you were one of the first people03:18that uh i connected with in this manner03:21when this whole crazy covert 19 thing03:22started happening and so03:24uh this feels like completing the circle03:27yeah it does i know we uh03:28it was a fun uh sort of joining of all03:31of the03:31superpowers of robbie my husband as you03:34know who is a photographer and he’s been03:36helping me a lot with amv03:38and camera setup and i know he he gave03:41you some guidance03:42but you got you got your lighting and03:44your camera and everything looking so03:45sweet and your show03:46is always so impressive i’m always03:48amazed that you’re able to do03:50a monday through friday’s show once a03:52week is03:53a lot well you’re a lot more buttoned up03:56than i am03:57i just kind of like show on turn on the03:59buttons thankfully i look good04:00because robbie told me what camera to04:02buy and i just have like a quick 3004:04minute conversation yours is far more04:05professional04:06oh well you know it’s very sweet of you04:09to say04:10meanwhile people are out there rolling04:12their eyes but i04:14think i would imagine that for those who04:16are tuned in that one of the first04:18conversations we need to have to address04:20some questions for people is04:21that you’re probably curious about this04:23whole professional soccer thing so how04:25did you end up04:27i know you talk about in the book uh but04:29for those who haven’t had the chance to04:30read it yet how did you get a04:31professional sport to your town04:33and you end up being a minority owner of04:35it let’s hear a quick version of that04:37story04:38sure um you know i think we’re going to04:40talk a little bit later on about04:42how special nashville is and nashville’s04:44not the only city in america there are04:46many cities in america where04:47um i i think it’s often these these tier04:50two cities i was born and raised in04:51brooklyn new york04:52but these tier two cities have this kind04:54of can04:55do community oriented spirit not all of04:58them but many of them do i think about04:59places like columbus for example05:01and nashville is just one of those05:02places and so you know05:04when somebody says hey we ought to have05:06something here if you can get you know05:08five or ten people to to agree05:10you might be on your way to having a05:12movement going and i think that’s that’s05:14really how professional05:15soccer got to nashville it didn’t start05:17with me um and it probably didn’t even05:18start with the guy i’m about to tell you05:20about but a guy named chris jones05:22he started a twitter account when uh the05:24nashville metros which was a05:25professional amateur05:26based team uh in nashville that had been05:29here for decades05:30shut down unfortunately and uh we had a05:32lapse where we didn’t have a soccer team05:33to cheer for05:34and chris got on twitter and created a05:37an account called nashville fc05:39nashville football club and said hey you05:41know we ought to have a community-based05:42club so that you know05:44um in the event that something happens05:46we can kind of05:47weather what a normal ownership group05:48wouldn’t be able to and a bunch of05:50people started following and he said05:51okay well if you all are following why05:53don’t we just set up a quick 7505:55membership and he had like you know05:56hundreds of people sign up for that so i05:58was number 8605:59okay and uh and it went from just being06:02like a group of people who were meeting06:03in bars to talk about the future and the06:05possibility of it06:07to fielding uh just like five aside06:09teams just like you know after work kind06:11of teams you know what i mean06:12um to getting a franchise in the fourth06:16division of u.s soccer06:17called the nashville premier soccer06:19league as an amateur but we06:21we entered in and uh made the playoffs06:23in the very first season started having06:24a thousand to two thousand people coming06:26out per game06:27and that showed that there was real06:28momentum that if you could do that for a06:30non-profit community based thing imagine06:32what could happen if you threw some06:33money behind it06:34so uh chris reached out to me towards06:36the end of the first season and asked me06:38to become06:39uh more involved um that ended up with06:41me quickly becoming the chairman of the06:43the non-profit group06:45and then it was just sort of like the06:46the race was on uh from from that point06:49uh there was a ton of momentum in the06:51news and the media about the potential06:52of other soccer organizations coming to06:54town it created06:55a little bit of pressure on us to say06:57hey if soccer is going to come to town06:59we ought to be the ones to sort of make07:00it happen07:01and uh then my my skill set at the time07:04was based on entrepreneurship and07:05raising money so07:06i did what i do packaged up our team07:09had an investor pitch meeting and uh we07:12were able to07:12put together an investor group that said07:14yeah we’re going to take this thing to07:15the next07:16level and so david dill who’s now the07:18ceo of lifepoint health07:19very large health system and chris07:21redager um healthcare entrepreneur here07:23in town07:24and myself ended up rounding out the07:26investment group we07:27received a franchise in what was the07:29third division called usl07:31uh that moved to the second division and07:33then uh major league soccer announced07:35that it was going to expand07:37and uh nashville was at the bottom of07:39the list but then john ingram who is a07:42hometown billionaire07:43decided he wanted to really get behind07:45it john bought a majority in our club07:47collectively we went forward and we07:49became the first expansion team07:51uh of of this next class so we’re07:54playing our first season right now07:56um we’re doing great in in our last uh i07:59guess07:59ten games we’re four three and three um08:02you know no team08:03coming in into the league in their08:04expansion year has scored more points08:07with the exception of atlanta and la and08:09um08:10before it was the beautiful thing about08:12everything i mean nothing is beautiful08:13about kobet but08:15we got to have our first home match at08:17uh08:18nissan stadium which is where the08:19tennessee titans played national08:21football league team and um we packed08:24out the house had you know i08:25can’t remember the number but it was in08:27the 40s or 50 000 people08:29there and it was awesome just for like08:30one night before covert shut everything08:33down08:34we had you know knock nashville’s uh08:36soccer community out and it was it was08:38an awesome night so08:39it’s been a lot of fun it was really you08:40know the story is much much longer than08:42that which is why i did08:43yeah book to it but you know hopefully08:45that sort of frames up how it happened08:47yeah you summarize it well there because08:49i think it’s really worth people08:51taking the time of course i’m i’m08:52recommending that folks buy and read08:54your book create and orchestrate08:55uh but i think in particular because you08:58know08:58it may strike some as odd that i would09:00start this discussion09:02on the tech humanist show talking about09:04soccer but i think what you demonstrate09:06so aptly in that story in the way you09:10tell it09:10in the book is how much it required09:14number one a bold response like you just09:16said when when there was that one09:18announcement where you decided to sort09:20of09:20take a stand and say no no if it’s going09:22to be anybody it’s going to be09:23us yeah that may have been a little bit09:26contrarian to what people might expect09:28you to do in that moment because you09:29might just you might think you know oh09:31well you would just be excited about09:32there being the possibility of something09:34bigger happening and just accept the09:37faith that like well you got it to the09:38point where people were enthusiastic but09:41but that wasn’t good enough and then i09:42think you also are demonstrating09:44how this orchestrate concept really09:47works when you take it to its fullest09:50idea yeah uh thank you for09:54for framing it that way i think uh in09:57in the in the chapter what i try to help09:59everyone understand is the the single10:01thread10:02that everybody and everybody came in at10:04different times with10:05plenty of different motivations right at10:07different stages you know obviously when10:09john came10:10in you’re talking about playing a game10:11that only a billionaire can play right10:13so that that10:14that lowers the number of people in the10:15playing field significantly right right10:18when chris started when the boundary10:19with a with a barrier to entry was just10:21start a twitter account and have the10:23courage to step out there and say hey10:25who’s with me10:25right two totally different um10:28thresholds10:28but still uh i would say the unifying10:31thread was10:33we wanted a team for nashville by10:36nashville10:36and i think the thing that everybody10:38didn’t like the idea of was an10:40outsider coming in with money and we10:42were seeing a lot of that in our city10:44with10:44with many other businesses and real10:46estate people were just coming10:48with money and we just didn’t want our10:49soccer team to to be10:51like that you know we wanted it to be by10:52people who were here the community10:54everyone could trust that the people who10:56were leading the organization had the10:58city’s best interest in mind yeah and i11:00think11:00one of the things that seems like it11:01makes the soccer story so successful11:04is also part of what factors into a lot11:06of the other stories that you tell11:08in the book and that i know you to have11:11which do11:12tie into technology and entrepreneurship11:14uh even more11:15which is the character of nashville and11:17how that becomes a character11:19in these stories and of course having11:21lived there for you know 13 years myself11:24i experienced it firsthand but11:26i think some folks out there who are not11:28you know nashvillians or aren’t as11:30familiar with nashville may be wondering11:32you know how do i help promote my town11:35my community to be what it sounds like11:38nashville is in these stories a11:40character11:40unto itself that’s playing a role in11:43helping11:44you know build and support not just a11:47new professional soccer team11:49but also these entrepreneurial endeavors11:51that we’ll get in more11:53more into and building a tech community11:54almost from scratch and and you know11:56kind of fostering an ecosystem where11:58there wasn’t one how do how12:00do you know do you have recommendations12:02for how people can develop that kind of12:03community where they are12:05yeah um and and you know i i think i12:08think there’s12:09there’s a physical uh communities but12:11there’s also a ton of online communities12:13and i think they share the same12:14principle which is12:16um you’re actually trying to create12:18something12:19uh for people around you12:22in a way that’s bigger than you right12:24like you know you’re going to get12:26benefit from it okay so we don’t we12:28don’t need to sort of talk about what12:29are the12:29you know what’s the intention what are12:31you trying to get out of it you’re going12:32to get something out of it right12:34now what you get out of it may just be12:35social and political capital12:37okay it may not be money that you’re12:38extracting directly from it but if12:40you’re12:41at the center of making something12:42valuable for other people you’re going12:44to get something out of it so let’s just12:45put that to the side12:46and let’s talk about kate when we really12:48did meet you and i met12:50you know met really around bar camp12:51nashville right which an event that12:54uh a group of people many people through12:56in 200712:57august wow 13 years ago 13 years ago13:00right13:01and nobody made money from that thing13:03you know in fact like at the end a13:05couple of us had to like stroke a check13:07paid for exit in and a couple of other13:09things right13:10but but what did we all get out of it13:12wow we got13:13you know friendships relationships this13:15sense of what13:17what was possible in in the city and for13:19those who13:20who are listening and i’m saying barca13:21nashville you don’t know what it is it13:23basically was a free conference it was a13:24free one day conference where anyone who13:26was interested in the digital landscape13:28whether that was blogging or computer13:30programming or design or13:31innovation generally speaking would just13:34come and13:34present to learn or have a conversation13:36or whatever just be around other13:38like-minded people13:39and when you just create space and then13:41you create you know really cool13:42interactions and ways for people to13:44learn and develop and grow and13:45and improve their network it’s13:48it’s a it’s a net plus for everybody13:50because everyone gets to get gets to be13:52upgraded in that experience13:53and then they can then um feed back into13:56it and you know the awesome thing about13:57barcamp was i really did it one year13:59that thing lived for you know 10 plus14:01years here right14:02you know with other people always every14:04year someone else rotating in14:06and and seeing it as uh you know an14:08honor to do it but also14:10there was this characteristic where if14:11you came in and you ran bar camp for a14:13year your personal14:14value in the community was was you know14:17elevated14:18yeah just as it was for me that very14:19first year that i did it and so and i14:21think we’re seeing this online in14:22communities as well right community14:24development14:25when people are trying to create a14:26community and they just want to like get14:27money out of it right away14:29they don’t go anywhere right because14:31people can smell a fraud a mile away14:32it’s like let’s just look at what you’re14:34doing here with the tech humanists like14:36the reason why it’s14:36why it’s growing and why people are14:38engaged and they come back week after14:39week is because14:40you’re selflessly giving right you know14:42you are14:43doing the work of booking the guests and14:45making a high quality show and showing14:47up on time showing up on time showing up14:49on time right14:50and and and giving people something14:51positive to think about quite frankly14:53in the midst of a world where look i we14:56all know what happened last night right14:57it’s like14:59this is it’s a tough time right and so15:02i i just think that community is about15:06understanding that we’re all15:07better together and just just15:10what can you do to help someone else15:12you’ll get something out of it15:14you know what i mean yeah yeah it feels15:16like15:17that’s one of the things that15:18entrepreneurship is15:20probably is misleading about15:23entrepreneurship that i feel like15:25people get into it in many cases because15:27they think about15:28the gains that they’re personally going15:30to get and so15:31often what you get out of15:32entrepreneurship when you approach it15:34especially when you approach it the way15:35you clearly have which is15:37as much more of a collaborative effort15:40and how can i build something15:42bigger than myself with bigger than what15:44i just myself can do15:46by orchestrating by you know being part15:48of teams15:49that can think bigger and out maneuver15:52you know that15:53what i could do on my own i i think15:55that’s a really15:56amazing lesson that you put forward in15:59this16:00in this book and and that serves as a16:02really great model for16:03community led anything so16:07community-led accelerator startup16:09accelerator community-led16:10you know football team soccer team16:12community-led whatever16:14you know technology conference so much16:16of what your story is about16:18seems like it’s about getting behind the16:21community and16:22elevating the community is that a fair16:24characterization do you think16:25yeah i think i think that it is and and16:28and it’s just it’s just what i’m16:29personally passionate about16:30um you know it’s i i16:33get i get a lot out of seeing other16:36people16:37experience joy and make progress and16:41i always seem to somehow experience joy16:43and make progress when that’s when it’s16:45happening right so16:46um it just it just works for me it’s not16:48it’s not a model for everybody but it16:50works really well for me16:51well you’re doing something you’re16:52actually passionate about it’s not like16:54you got into the soccer club thing16:55like for altruistic motives like gee16:58some people really16:59seem to care about soccer i think i’ll17:01help them get a soccer club in nashville17:05when i started i definitely was not17:08thinking about17:09uh and this is probably a good segue17:11into the entrepreneurship stuff but like17:13i started17:14i started because i was working too much17:16and i needed something17:17fun to take my mind off it um but you17:20know like17:21my wife rachel she basically is like i i17:23she says about me that i can’t have a17:25hobby17:26so like it starts as fun and then like i17:28somehow make it into a business mean17:31then it’s no longer fun it’s like this17:33thing i have to do i have to accomplish17:35and soccer was definitely that way17:37because it started with me just going to17:39the to the pub17:40at like six o’clock in the morning on17:42saturdays and going to watch premier17:43league soccer17:44and then this nashville you know fc17:46thing started uh17:47which eventually came became national17:49soccer club and that was cool and then17:51one day i came home and i was like17:53so babe i’m now the chairman of17:54nashville fc and she was like17:56oh my god like i know i saw this coming18:00you knew she was like all right you know18:04that’s hilarious but i feel like one of18:06the things too about entrepreneurship18:07besides18:08you know the mythology that uh it’s18:11a self-involved endeavor rather than18:14this community18:15entrenched thing that you have made it18:17so often18:18i think entrepreneurship is also a key18:20part of the mythology of technology you18:22know so when we think about18:24you know tech this whole concept of tech18:27that18:27infuses the tech humanist show and the18:29work that i do18:31so much of what has built this tech18:33ecosystem18:34and the tech concept has been18:37entrepreneurship so it’s a18:38it’s a key part of that mythology but18:40it’s also a key part of18:42the genuine opportunity that exists18:44there18:45and so i feel like what i get out of18:47your book and you know the creative work18:49you’re doing around this18:50around create and orchestrate it seems18:52to be at its core about18:54sharing what you’ve learned to make18:56entrepreneurship more inclusive18:58and and break down some of the barriers19:00to entry19:02that people might experience for a19:03variety of reasons but you know you talk19:05about being an19:06unlikely entrepreneur and and that you19:09see19:09the opportunity for many unlikely19:11entrepreneurs out there so what19:12motivated you to put19:13that resource together for other19:15unlikely entrepreneurs19:18yeah i i’ve used unlikely uh19:21as as sort of a tongue-in-cheek code for19:25come on i’m a black college dropout you19:26know what i’m saying like19:28and and really it’s not just like i’m an19:30entrepreneur19:31that i don’t know is19:35selling something you might expect me to19:37be selling right um19:38i’m i’m engaged in venture capital and19:40professional sports and19:41and um high-end technology digital19:44marketing like those are the kinds of19:45things that i get involved in and so19:47um there’s it’s definitely a code19:50right for those who would understand it19:52and for others they just sort of mean19:53what do you mean okay if you have to ask19:55that19:56you know um then we’re not being19:58intellectually honest with each other19:59and we’re not being honest right and and20:02i think the reason why20:03i i want to make it more accessible is20:06because20:07my belief is that the market is20:10ultimately uh20:13the market really doesn’t care that much20:18about your gender and your race and20:21those other kinds of things and your20:22credentials you know like20:24we could take it beyond demographics20:25like what about you the college20:26credentials20:27what kind of household you were brought20:28up in you know how much even how much20:30money you have in the bank today20:31right there are all sorts of really20:33clever ways to overcome all that stuff20:34and this that’s never been more true20:36than it is today with the internet right20:37whether you know muffy from the country20:39club all that sort of stuff20:41exactly all those kinds of things right20:43and and and so a lot of the20:45a lot of the things that that make20:46entrepreneurship inaccessible20:48are can you see yourself20:51as an entrepreneur you know which was20:52why i put my face on the front of the20:54book to be really clear like hey20:56you can see yourself as an entrepreneur20:59you know um21:00and and do you understand the21:03fundamentals of how entrepreneurship21:04works right i i don’t believe21:06entrepreneurship is like a paint by21:08numbers thing21:09uh but there are principles and there21:10are some core concepts that you do have21:12to learn over the21:13uh you know on your journey to becoming21:16a functional entrepreneur that everyone21:18who21:18is one takes for granted right but the21:21people who aren’t21:22looking are on the outside looking in21:24and uh21:25they’re it’s really pretty mystical21:27quite frankly and and it doesn’t need to21:29be mystical right21:30you know it doesn’t need to be locked up21:31in very very expensive mba programs or21:33anything like that it can be21:35it can be made uh very easy to consume21:38by the layman21:38especially if you wrap it in a narrative21:40which is why i wanted to make sure that21:42i didn’t just give information in my21:43book but i tried to kind of add in my21:45own narrative full of failures21:46right oh very candid i’m i’m so21:49impressed with how21:50uh ready you were to share these21:53you know you say failures i think you21:55were you were able to couch them in21:57you know true lessons learned which21:59which is not a failure22:00in a way right yeah for sure it’s it’s22:03it’s where i learned everything22:04important it’s like the stories of22:05success are not that valuable quite22:07frankly22:08but where you know when i’ve really22:09really failed that’s when22:11this missing principle or this really is22:13this missing concept22:14appeared you know it’s like you talk22:16about mythology it’s almost like uh i22:17don’t know that that’s that’s when22:19ah you know i22:22i got the i got the oracle you know when22:25i when i’ve22:25you know had to file bankruptcy or22:27whatever you know what i mean like it’s22:29it’s uh it’s definitely those points22:31where you realize you’re running into a22:32brick wall that22:33and you got something wrong but the22:35important thing is22:36they just add up um to your your22:40durability22:40your strength your wisdom and uh you22:43know for me entrepreneurship is a career22:44it’s like22:45i wrote this book about 20 years of my22:47life i’m 44.22:48i’m like i got two more of those you22:51know in me22:52and um and i’m gonna be way wiser for22:54the next two22:56uh and and so just trying to make sure22:58people understand entrepreneurship is22:59not the one business you’re doing today23:00it’s23:01it is a way of life it’s a way of23:02thinking and once you sort of get those23:04you know those principles and core23:06concepts in place uh it’s a it’s a it’s23:08a path to liberation23:10do you see the venture capital industry23:12changing23:13with regard to the biases you talked23:15about just a few minutes ago you know23:16you were talking about in the book how23:19some venture capital firms are using23:22a lot of data to try to get past their23:24own initial23:25biases that they may have when they’re23:27looking at you know the selection23:28process as you described you know23:30the kind of four-step process but when23:32they’re looking at these23:33this pool of opportunities if they don’t23:36see23:37a likely entrepreneur if they’re able to23:40see the potential of that company23:43maybe if they see it represented in data23:45rather than seeing you know23:46the the faces or the the demographics23:49presented to them but23:51i guess i wonder first of all do you see23:53that changing23:54and secondly do you do you think that23:57data23:57is the right way to circumvent that or24:00is it24:01is it a combination of things like more24:03and better representation like what24:05you’re trying to do24:05plus data plus maybe other factors24:09yeah i want to directly answer your24:10question and then i want to24:12give a much broader picture on the24:14change i see so24:15the direct answer is i do see it24:17changing and it is absolutely about24:19broader representation24:21full stop right that’s what it’s got to24:22be the data is not is insufficient24:24necessary but insufficient for the kind24:26of change we’re talking about24:27um now broad broader uh and this is even24:31beyond venture capital24:33just in the last three weeks i’ll say um24:38it has become very very clear to me that24:412020 uh24:45has more technology-driven change24:48in it than i’ve seen since since 200724:51right um for me 2007 was24:55really really really a big breakthrough24:56year i went to south by southwest24:59i got one of the early twitter accounts25:00then the iphone came out25:02then amazon web services became like25:04something that companies started using25:07there were other things that happened25:08that year i’m sure but those like just25:10think about25:10how much of the world today is social25:13networks mobile phones and cloud25:14computing right netflix announced a25:16streaming plan that year too i mean25:17there’s a lot of things when you start25:19trying to take stock of it25:212007 was an unbelievable year okay25:24and thank you for bringing up the25:25netflix thing because that’s that’s25:26another massive massive paradigm of25:29change i am seeing changes25:33really driven by technology that i25:35haven’t seen since 2007. i i’ve25:37actually kind of got bored like where’s25:39the where’s the stuff25:41right and there is one such25:44change that that is not entirely25:46technology driven um it’s it’s largely25:49driven by a change in regulation with25:50the sec called 506 c25:52which uh allows venture capital firms to25:55still25:56only raise money from accredited25:58investors which for the uninitiated26:00basically means you make 200 250 00026:02a year or you have a net worth of one26:05million dollars not including the value26:06of your home26:07um that’s basically the threshold you26:09have to be able to pass in order to26:10invest in private investments26:12because they’re not well regulated okay26:15and the sec wants to protect people so26:16they want to make sure you can endure26:17the risk26:18so in the past what that has meant is in26:20the standard regulation called reg d26:22what that has meant26:23is you can’t advertise26:26so you can only raise money with closed26:28networks26:29because you can’t advertise well who has26:32the closed networks with access to26:33people that are for sure accredited well26:35that’s going to look a certain way26:36that’s going to be an inside club26:37right and so the regulations and the26:39policies26:41fostered a homogeneous industry26:45506 c basically says you can now market26:49and you can advertise because we now26:50have these third-party services that can26:52validate whether or not somebody is26:54actually an accredited investor26:56so that has opened up the the floodgates26:59but it27:00takes time for that regulation to really27:02hit well angel list which is pretty much27:04the premier platform27:05for angel investors and has been27:07innovating27:08in and around this topic rolled out this27:11year something called rolling funds27:14and at this point there’s probably been27:16100 rolling funds that have been created27:18they’re basically one-person funds sort27:20of with this whole theme of one-person27:21companies the whole part27:22paul jarvis company of one thing um one27:25person funds where they they just use27:27the angelus platform27:28the angelus infrastructure and they just27:30launch a fund and27:31similar to kickstarter if they have a27:33lot of social capital they can raise a27:34fund really really quickly27:36and someone can sign up for a fund the27:37same way they would sign up for27:39amazon it’s like you go through it’s an27:40e-commerce workflow and so27:43that is changing the complexion very27:45very quickly this feels like the kind of27:47disruption that i saw27:48quite frankly another 2007 uh innovation27:51which was accelerators right you know27:52tech stars and wycom really kind of came27:54to prominence in 2007.27:56and so uh this feels like an accelerator28:00kind of moment and i think we’re going28:01to see a lot of28:03new representation in the venture28:05capital space especially early stage28:07very very quickly um so that’s exciting28:09you know28:10it’s exciting yeah that is and it’s28:13interesting that you know you brought up28:14accelerators and that’s an interesting28:16segue but28:17but i also am interested in in28:18acknowledging that28:20there do seem to be some accelerators28:22and funds that are specifically focused28:25on28:25you know making sure that people of28:27color are funded and28:28women are funded and that sort of thing28:30so that seems like28:31it’s got to help but these um the 506 c28:35change sounds like well sea change28:37sounds like a uh28:38a sea change in the industry as well so28:40that’s a thank you for that education28:42i’m sure28:43i’m sure our viewers are are learning a28:46lot from that28:47you know one one question i have for you28:49you know is28:51the when i think about the kind of28:53orchestration that you talk about28:55in your book this is taking it to a28:58little bit more philosophical level i29:00guess29:01uh it strikes me as a very human29:03characteristic29:04like that’s it’s not maybe a uniquely29:07human characteristic but it’s a strongly29:09human characteristic right like it’s29:10about collaboration in a way that maybe29:14non-human animals are capable of but i29:16really feel like this is something that29:17we see29:18kind of as a human characteristic of29:21seeking a hole that’s bigger than your29:23own contribution29:24and having to give up a part of your29:26vision29:27to achieve it do you feel like people29:30can29:31practice and get better at this skill29:34um or or is this something that you know29:37you either have it or you don’t like29:39that you’re either wired for this kind29:40of collaboration29:41or you’re just going to be sort of a a29:44sole proprietor type of person29:46what do you what do you think people can29:48do to improve or or29:49get better at it if if you do think that29:51they can29:53uh in my opinion the evidence is29:57pretty overwhelming that we all have it29:59um30:00what i like to kind of revert back to is30:02just the premise that30:03everything that we see that was not30:05created in in nature30:07was created by humans um and30:10very little of it was created in a silo30:12meaning one person created it30:14almost all of it was as a result of30:16co-creation30:17right um and so there you go i mean we30:20can just kind of stop there it’s it’s30:22like30:22everything you see everything you use30:24took multiple perspectives multiple30:26skill sets multiple people working on30:28things30:28it’s fundamental to who we are and how30:30we got here30:32right so it’s it’s much more about30:35tapping into it30:36it’s much more about tapping into it and30:38i think there are a lot of30:40uh conventions and and30:44ways that we are developing people that30:47are not conducive to it30:50and so that’s why we need people to be30:52out here advocating and encouraging and30:54creating environments where people can30:56do this you know design thinking30:57shouldn’t be30:58such a sort of special thing it should31:00be sort of basic31:02you know it’s a sort of a basic31:03understanding you know31:05i i am getting more and more um31:09more and more strong in my uh31:13feelings about the damage that school is31:16is doing to to us um as we continue to31:19hold on to the model from the industrial31:21revolution31:22right um just just that what we were31:24trying to produce31:26then and that model and and our31:29unwillingness to like31:30innovate and advance from from that31:33model31:34is is really not helpful it’s it’s not31:37the skill set that we need we we need31:39people who understand themselves31:41who who know how to collaborate who know31:43how to work in groups31:44and who don’t uh31:49don’t fear failure we need people who31:52don’t feel fit31:52feel fear failure and that’s not what31:55the school systems of today are set up31:57for31:57they’re set up for individual working31:59don’t share work don’t share answers32:01right that’s not how things work in the32:02real world like32:03when do you ever have to do something32:05where you can’t get help from somebody32:07else32:07right right you know you also when you32:10mention design thinking too there’s even32:11you know kind of a criticism that’s32:13common about design thinking that it32:14doesn’t32:15it doesn’t involve you know users or or32:18the the people who are affected and you32:20know on the show a lot a lot of times we32:22talk about the32:23the harms that can be done to32:24communities by not involving the people32:26that are going to be32:27affected in those communities and so i32:29think even there it’s it’s32:30it’s in within that example there it32:34contains32:34a an example of how not thinking32:38holistically and communally and about32:41the impact32:42of you know what can happen with failure32:44what can go beyond failure into lessons32:45learned and so on32:47feels like it’s an opportunity to to32:48think in a more rich32:50integrative holistic way about this i32:53completely agree32:54and i and i feel like one of the things32:57that is happening right now that feels32:59like a fantastic33:00evolution uh is that i i think we’re33:04really starting to break that stuff down33:05this year you know it really feels like33:08the way that we think the way that we33:11frame and understand learning and the33:13way that we understand working together33:14is really starting to change33:16um for the better you know you know for33:19the better33:19and uh i hope that we can do it in a way33:22that uh33:24has a has an elevated understanding of33:26the relationship between humanity and33:27technology because that’s going to be33:29critical because the two shall never be33:31separate again33:32i don’t you know what i mean so we have33:33to integrate33:35human to human to tech and and33:37everything in between33:39um but it’s exciting i mean the stuff33:40i’m seeing out there is really exciting33:42right now33:42yeah and i would add to that end33:44business because that’s why33:45entrepreneurship i think is such a key33:47piece of this because33:48uh in in the work that i do so often33:50it’s about teaching business leaders33:53how the work that they do through33:55technology impacts humans and there’s33:57that sort of33:57triangle relationship there right so we33:59have to make sure that business34:01understands34:01that the technology it develops for34:03human experience creation34:05is is the the great um accelerator of34:08human experience and that you know those34:10things need to tie together business34:12incentives need to align with human34:13incentives and when entrepreneur34:15uh programs and accelerators and34:18everything are only focused on34:20you know incremental growth and and uh34:23profit and acceleration at that level34:26it’s not34:27incorporating that holistic human34:29discussion so i i think34:30that’s one of the reasons why i i found34:33you know i find34:34your story and your work so compelling34:36because of34:37its nature of being so community driven34:39and community tied34:41and i know of course you still got to34:42make you know you got to teach34:44entrepreneurs how to make a profit and34:46how to grow and find a market and you34:48know all of that stuff34:49because those are business fundamentals34:51but but i think you know where it sounds34:53like you’re coming from and where a lot34:54of i know34:55that the work that you do is anchored34:57really seems like it brings it back to34:59this understanding of35:01people in community and how that that35:03all ties together35:05yeah it’s it’s certainly not business at35:07all costs35:08you know or business above humanity it’s35:11business and service of humanity35:13simple you know um it’s actually pretty35:16easy35:17you know it’s actually pretty easy i35:18mean i think35:20the the big aha moment for me was35:24when i really understood financed35:26finance35:27as a discipline and i understood like35:29the mechanisms and the reports and just35:31how you structure the financial pro35:33forma and all those kinds of things35:35when i realized all the externalities35:38that we do not35:39hold businesses uh accountable for35:43that don’t ever show up in the finance35:46documents but that35:47they impact right all of those35:49externalities that’s when35:52that’s when it really hit me it was like35:54oh no no no no we have we35:55we’ve got to you know everybody we a we35:58need to broaden the scope of who36:00understands business because so many36:02people so many of the people who want to36:03do good in the world36:04they think like business is like this36:06bad thing and it’s like36:08the world speaks capitalism i like even36:10communists36:11are capitalists it is the universal36:14language36:15okay it’s it’s how the world works and36:17we need the do girders36:19to understand it so they can do it36:22you know because what we have right now36:25is the people who think it’s capitalism36:26at all costs36:28and think and think it’s business36:30humanity be damned36:32that’s obvious when you look at36:33everything that’s happening so what we36:34need we need to make people far36:36more business literate everybody so36:37everybody can get into the market and36:39compete36:40you know and and start to to break down36:42and create more fragments like36:44we’re way too consolidated that’s what36:45all this anti-trust stuff is about right36:47now like we need36:48more choice more more local you know36:51integration local technology providers36:53creating things that36:54the big monoliths couldn’t create right36:56because they’re they’re locally36:57sensitive36:58and uh and and appropriate so yeah i37:02you know for me this is and oh by the37:05way kate37:06we don’t teach entrepreneurship in37:07school right37:09right right or those financial37:10disciplines that you’re talking about37:12no these things run the world we know37:15they run the world37:16we we determine whether or not we think37:18everything is okay based on the stock37:20market even though it is completely37:21disconnected from the well-being of the37:23people37:24this is my rant lately in in 202037:28i can’t tell you how many times i have37:30ranted the phrase37:31the economy is people and i just did it37:33again on twitter37:34because you know we keep talking about37:36the market we keep talking about you37:38know opening up the economy and opening37:40up37:40uh read businesses so that people can37:42start spending money within them again37:44i’m like guess what you’re just going to37:46spread the virus and you’re just going37:47to shut it down there’s going to be more37:48people sick and more people37:50dying and that’s just going to37:51promulgate this whole thing it’s going37:52to keep this whole these cycles going37:55because the economy is people and we37:57have to understand that we cannot37:59separate these abstract concepts of how38:01whether the economy is flourishing from38:03whether people are flourishing38:05and that feels like until we have a a38:09a well woven understanding of those38:11things we’re never going to get38:13anywhere with this but i wanted to also38:15point out that jerry gobb commented38:17marcus is spot on nothing like a crisis38:19to open things up38:21so speaking back i think to your38:22observation that you know 2020 has seen38:25a lot of digital transformation that38:27like you saw in 200738:29so we can touch back on that and also38:31there’s a linkedin user38:32who doesn’t have a name that just says38:34linkedin user says business in service38:36of humanity should be easy38:38check38:38[Laughter]38:41yeah i mean it you’re right it should38:44it should let’s go back to the the38:47comment that jerry is agreeing with38:48about nothing like a crisis to open38:50things up so38:50what are some examples of what you’ve38:52been seeing that feel like you know38:54you’re just talking about the the38:55consolidation of power and of technology38:58uh and how a a good alternative to that39:01is reinvesting in local economies and39:04and strengthening those communities39:06um what are you seeing that gives you39:07hope around around that39:09momentum boy there is uh there’s a39:14movement that i’m seeing39:16uh especially around39:19and i know we’ve been talking a lot39:20about uh community39:22and uh collaboration i i’m about to i’m39:25about to talk about individuals39:27but only only from the position of39:30individuals being able to39:31be productive and sustain themselves39:34without a bunch of overhead39:35that’s that’s really what i mean i don’t39:37mean individuals moving as individuals39:39um but there is a lot of39:42really amazing stuff happening right now39:44in technology around39:46the ability for there to be a one-person39:47company right39:49and uh that’s really really powerful39:52um no code has gotten very real39:56as of this year um bubble and airtable39:59and coda and40:00all these things you know i mean as40:02someone who invests it was sort of a40:03rule of the road40:04i don’t even want to talk to a founder40:06unless they’ve got a technical40:07co-founder or they themselves can write40:08code40:09and that is really becoming not true40:12anymore like people are writing real or40:15building real applications40:17with no code that’s really big for you40:20to evolve past that40:22that understanding too because of your40:23bias as a technical40:25co-founder and and having come up40:26through technology so it you for you to40:29accept that and recognize that there’s40:31opportunity there is huge40:32it’s a it’s a big deal and and and it40:34democratizes things in40:36a really fantastic way right um so that40:38is a really really big thing40:40um i don’t know how to really really40:42frame this up40:43well but uh writing as a discipline40:46is is coming back people are realizing40:49the power of the written word40:51and and i think there’s also this this40:53sense that40:55i don’t know if it’s too far gone but40:58our media is40:59really not serving us and the41:00advertising industrial41:02complex uh is is really dangerous41:06and so we we need you know th this year41:10has really turned out the way that it41:12has because of citizen journalism right41:14i mean george floyd being the41:16highest you know level example of that41:19um41:20citizen journalism is is amazing41:24you know and we’ve we’ve really gotten41:27to this point now where the barrier to41:29be a civil41:29citizen journalist um or or a teacher41:33of people right a teacher of people in41:36this time when people need to be41:37reskilled if you don’t know if you like41:39or don’t like that word but41:40you know um where people need to to be41:42able to advance41:44to to get different skills to meet this41:46new economy and the new needs of the41:47economy41:48it’s never been more powerful um and41:51then i guess the the final thing that i41:53is just blowing my mind right now is um41:58this this uh this advancement that rome42:01research seems to be42:02uh introducing uh where42:06we’re getting out of um42:09category category based thinking and42:11we’re getting into truly having42:13technology that enabled42:14enables us to do network-based thinking42:18and that may be really really over most42:20people’s heads if you haven’t heard of42:21rome research42:23but it is a new quote-unquote42:26note-taking app42:28that really it um42:31gosh how do i even talk about this it is42:33a note-taking app like evernote or like42:35any of these other things42:36but the underlying technology gives each42:39one of us the ability to build42:40our own knowledge graph and42:43it’s really really powerful and42:47it it feels like the kind of thing when42:49the search engine42:51hit and you know it feels like that kind42:54of thing like whoa this is completely42:55blowing away42:56the way that we’ve been able to organize42:58our information personally43:00up until now these companies have been43:01able to organize information in these43:03incredible ways and then they make money43:05off of that ability43:06you know they sell us functionality we43:09don’t have the ability to organize our43:10own knowledge and information and43:12universe of data points in that way and43:14now that43:15that kind of technology is becoming43:17available43:18to everybody for very very low cost43:21so again i don’t i don’t know how to43:24articulate it very well but i’m just43:25feeling it i feel this wave of change43:28that is going to be pretty dramatic i43:29think two three years out43:31it feels like what you keep referring43:33what you keep describing43:34and you know you’ve used the term a few43:36times is democratization43:38across a lot of different services and a43:40lot of different opportunities43:42right yes uh and then uh43:45our linkedin user has popped up once or43:47twice more and said uh the economy is43:49people yes and43:50james gilchrist hi james it’s you okay i43:53don’t know why you’re not showing up as43:54james gilchrist but instead linkedin43:56user43:57and then says uh network-based thinking43:59more info please44:00thanks and i think you probably did44:02explain since he asked that44:03question uh so we’re good but um james44:06pop up again and let us know if there’s44:08a specific question you have about that44:10uh but that it’s really it’s such fun to44:13see44:14the um the the macro trend of that play44:17out of democratization across these44:19different services you talked about44:20learning you talked about knowledge44:22sharing uh you talked about the writing44:24the the citizen journalism44:26and you know so i think what what you44:27may be referring to partly when you talk44:29about the writing is the44:30the rise of these subscription44:32newsletters and and44:34right right yeah which you know i just44:37saw someone point out today you know44:39we got to make sure we give props to the44:41to um44:42folks who were doing it that were women44:43of color and and women early days that44:45you know way precede44:47tech bros doing this um but but however44:50it happens it’s good to see these cycles44:52play out where44:53you know something that has one44:55generation of life44:57gets another generation of life and then44:59maybe there becomes a more45:00truly democratized version that is more45:02inclusive uh45:04do you see us taking us having that kind45:07of trend toward things as we become more45:10socially aware more you know kind of45:12clued in45:14um i hope so so so i what i’m seeing45:17mostly is the tools45:19uh show up right i’m seeing the tool45:21show up and that’s really exciting i45:22mean kate one of the things i left out45:23but i should have said45:24is what you and i are doing right now45:26which i’m sure we could have done a year45:28ago45:29which is we run our own live video shows45:33like this is crazy right really45:36like this and it’s pretty inexpensive45:38and like you look great45:40and you sound great and there’s no lag45:42and um45:43that’s really really powerful but but45:45just to kind of get to the45:46democratization piece45:49i what i worry about is that when i45:52get into these spaces and i’m learning45:54about these new emerging things45:56i don’t see enough diversity in the45:58people who know about them46:01right and i don’t think i ever have46:02right um46:04there wasn’t enough diversity in 200746:06when all this stuff was happening and46:07there’s still not enough diversity now46:09um just because there is such a thing as46:11like black twitter46:13doesn’t mean that you know if i if we46:16were to46:16take this conversation and put it into46:19black twitter that that a sufficient46:20percentage of46:22of that universe would know you know46:24some of the terms that we’re talking46:25about here and that46:26to me that’s the that’s the bigger46:28problem is46:29um we have to figure out how to be much46:32more intentional46:33about uh opening up46:36the the the opportunities on the front46:39end of these things because that’s where46:40all the values created46:42you know what i mean it’s it’s it’s in46:44it’s in the front end46:45of these things not in the consumer wave46:47of them where everyone’s just using them46:49it’s in the maker phase you know where46:52everything is messy and nothing quite46:53makes enough sense and people are just46:55sort of46:56figuring it out but eventually those46:58same people that were just figuring it47:00out47:00end up you know like i think about in47:022007 when i went to south by southwest47:04and i met matt47:05matt mullenweg and he was just like a47:07backpack dude47:09and it’s like now his software47:12powers every important website on the on47:15the internet47:16you know what i mean and and it’s like47:20how do we get that group of people at47:23any given phase and time47:25to be more you know inclusive how do we47:27do that47:29um i don’t have the answer for it but47:32it’s it’s47:32it’s the question yeah it’s a good47:35question and i think you know47:36it certainly seems like the the resource47:39you’ve created with47:40create and orchestrate is a step and the47:43work that you’re doing to47:45to take that message out and make sure47:47you’re having that conversation47:49in different video shows and podcasts is47:51a step but obviously47:52it’s there are more steps to be done and47:55it’s not just on you it’s on me it’s on47:57you know a lot of white people it’s on a47:58lot of people who have a lot of47:59platforms and a lot of opportunities so48:01i hope that we’re i hope that we’re48:03having that conversation in a meaningful48:05enough way48:06to to promulgate that and to make sure48:08that we understand what some of the48:10network nodes of that that um48:13organizational imperative really are48:17but yeah you know it’s so i i think a48:21lot of48:21the theme to the notes that i had made48:24uh in in rereading your book and and48:26preparing for this discussion was48:28so much about convincing people to48:31become48:32some part of something bigger than48:33themselves and that’s you know it feels48:35like that’s part of this discussion too48:36right it’s48:37it’s it’s as much a part of the soccer48:39discussion as it is the jump start48:41discussion as it is the bar camp48:43discussion as it is48:44the how do you get there to be more48:46black founders48:48uh you know more people who are aware of48:50the opportunities of48:51you know these democratized so48:53supposedly democratized tech48:55opportunities that aren’t really48:56democratized until48:58you know you can have a meaningful48:59conversation in black twitter and know49:01that there’s a49:02significant population that’s going to49:03understand that there’s an opportunity49:05there49:06right so is it a matter of convincing49:10people to become49:11part of something bigger than themselves49:13is it a matter of convincing the49:15the society at large to49:18expand its thinking and and its49:21acceptance49:21and create space for more than what’s49:25typically accepted49:27i feel like this is a yeah yeah yes and49:30right yeah49:30right so so um you know49:34the the ceo wells fargo just got outed49:36for for49:37you know making a really dumb statement49:39um49:40you know that i’m sure he regrets at49:42this point uh about there not being a49:44sufficient you know pipeline of of49:46of talented black people or whatever49:48whatever dumb thing they said49:49just just shouldn’t have said it and you49:52know49:52um that there is a49:57there there is a there’s a complete this50:00has been blown wide open this year right50:01there’s a complete50:03lack of understanding about um50:07certainly the black experience i can i50:09can talk about that because i’m black i50:10don’t want to speak on behalf of any50:12other50:12demographic that i can’t actually fully50:14understand but there’s a really big50:16uh lack of understanding about the black50:18experience in america50:19on on the part of many many white people50:21i won’t say all but like many many white50:23people especially white people in power50:24right50:25and so they just assume that50:28the rules and the policies and the50:30procedures and the norms that they have50:32are are good and50:36and what and and lead to opportunity for50:39black people50:40if black people were were only available50:43right not not understanding all of the50:46huge50:48embedded gotchas that are that are in50:51there50:52um that that come up as different code50:55words50:57that that don’t say they don’t scream50:59racism but they act out racism51:01right you know and so that is that is51:04that is one51:05really really big part of it another51:08really really big part of it51:09is that it is just a truth that a lot of51:12black people because51:13because of all of those norms and51:16policies that51:17have been exclusive and have not you51:19know engaged51:21us as a people here in this country51:23there are just some things we don’t know51:25you know like like that we that we51:28need to need to learn in order to51:31better you know participate in51:33capitalism at the highest levels51:35so like like a lot of us don’t51:36understand sort of the more51:38sophisticated aspects of financing51:39especially in the private markets51:41that’s growing quite a bit you know51:43there’s there’s a growing vanguard of51:44black vcs who are out here who are doing51:46awesome work educating people51:47this guy matt conwell he’s he’s in51:49baltimore he like does you know amas all51:51the time51:52you know so there are definitely people51:54who are who are breaking the mold and51:56who are here and doing the education51:57work51:58but look when you talk like across the52:00entire country and you really are52:02looking at all the people52:03is at least my anecdotal experience when52:05i talk to people that’s why i wrote a52:06chapter about venture capital right52:08because there are aspects that we just52:11have got52:11to get out to people so they understand52:14that this multi-trillion dollar52:18thing that is venture capital okay52:21can be explained in a single chapter52:23like it’s that simple52:24you and you don’t even need any52:26credentials to participate in it right52:28literally there’s that’s the gap yeah52:31it’s a heady chapter52:32but it can be explained in one chapter52:34but it can be explained in one chapter52:36right and even52:36even if you need to read that chapter52:38over and over again for a couple of52:39weeks you’ll get it you can get it52:41so the point is you know52:44making sure that they know they being52:47anybody who52:48feels like they’re on the outside52:50looking in that you belong52:52and that the world is moving in a52:54direction that will52:56that will um that will meet you to your52:59belief53:00of that it’s it hasn’t always been there53:02and it’s not as53:04as perfect as it needs to be but it is53:07moving in that direction it’s moving in53:09the direction of53:10meeting you where you think you want to53:12be as long as you think53:14you belong you have a better chance of53:16actually being there than if you don’t53:18think you belong so but but a lot of53:21that is self-belief a lot of that is53:22understanding a lot of that is knowledge53:23a lot of that is53:25you know just how you understand those53:27who are keeping you out53:28and and all those types of things so so53:31a lot of the the things i’m trying to53:33share53:34are really just um53:38just my my own experiences hoping that53:41other people can53:42can say that dude’s not that special you53:44know what i’m saying if he did that53:45i can do better than that you are53:47especially honestly but i think that53:49word unlikely is53:50is part of the secret sauce here right53:52like you know overcoming53:54the concept it’s if it’s a self-concept53:57of unlikely53:58yes then that seems like it’s a barrier54:01to yourself is that fair and it is it no54:03no no look it54:05it is i don’t care what color you are or54:07what gender you are54:09there is a reality to um external forces54:12and there’s a reality to internal forces54:14right which one do you have more control54:16over54:19the side let’s let the audience answer54:23yeah the inside game so that’s the one54:26every54:26you know whenever your energy and your54:29spirits are high enough54:30the one you’ve got to focus on is the54:32inside game54:33that doesn’t mean you know you don’t54:34call the outside game out for what it is54:36and you don’t work to help other54:38people to break through the outside game54:40but like work the inside game54:42don’t be so outside focused that you’re54:44not developing you know54:46you’re that you’re not developing54:47yourself and you’re how you see yourself54:49and54:50your belonging and how important it is54:52for you and in your intellect and your54:54brilliance54:55to be part of the solution right and54:58that’s a really big ask right now i know55:00especially right like55:01during covid during the you know sort of55:04aftermath of george55:06floyd and all of the uh social racial55:08protests and and everything that have55:10been happening it’s a really big ask to55:11have people be55:13able to be okay internally or do kind of55:15internal examination but55:17but i think you’re right it is it is so55:18much uh that’s what’s within our control55:21to to whatever extent it is55:23and i loved it you know it brings me55:24back around to the last chapter of your55:26book where you talk about the mountain55:28climbing55:29metaphor and how much you learned55:32from from that experience and i don’t55:35want to ruin it for anyone who hasn’t55:37gotten a chance to read the book yet55:38you’ll just have to buy the book and55:39read it55:40but i did capture the um the summary of55:43some55:44of your lessons like the peak is not the55:45peak the air is different at the top55:47it’s harder on the way down fatigue is55:49inevitable55:50and i think you know without even55:52hearing the the stories55:54that you tell about the mountain55:56climbing i feel like those lessons are55:58important for people to hear and to56:01acknowledge that peak is not the peak56:03the air is different at the top it’s56:04harder on the way down fatigue is56:06inevitable what can you say56:08about that process that commitment to56:12understanding yourself and improving56:14yourself and56:15you know being ready for the next change56:18the next56:19the next peak you know the next56:20opportunity56:24it basically boils down to your movie56:27and your book is about your journey56:28it’s not about a destination right it’s56:31not about a goal56:32nobody like nobody cares about that they56:34care about all the stuff that happened56:36along the way56:37that’s what makes the story interesting56:39and um56:40and and when you when you get there it’s56:43never going to be like what you think it56:44is56:45um and so just just understand that56:50in a in a time such as this where these56:53are really big asks56:55um it is also true56:58we may never experience another moment57:01like this57:02in our lives as humans where we were put57:05in time out57:06to like think about what we did57:10right and it’s like57:14if you can oh and and i can’t say if you57:17can57:17right but i can i can say if you can57:23take the time and muster the energy to57:25do57:26the work you know you need to do right57:30you know i don’t know the work you need57:32to do but you know the work you need to57:34do57:34and you may not have another time like57:36this57:37you know to be able to do it this is a57:40really really57:42unique potentially once in a lifetime57:43moment that we’re that we’re sitting in57:45um yeah with a convergence of a lot of57:48things going on57:49i mean this is a very it’s a very u.s57:51centric perspective57:53you know some of the things that we’ve57:54been talking about but i know that you57:55know the ricochet57:56effect of you know the george floyd57:58protest had been felt around the world58:00i know that the u.s presidential58:02election is felt around the world58:04i know that you know other countries are58:06going through their58:07uh political processes and and turmoil58:10but58:10everyone has an eye on what’s happening58:12in the us so58:13you know for those of us who are in the58:15us you know it’s58:16it’s a lot happening all at once and uh58:19yeah i think these are great life58:23lessons it’s a great moment as you say58:24to to sit with it and58:26and kind of examine you know what is it58:28that i need to do58:29what is it i need to take away what is58:31it i need to give back58:33uh what has what has this moment taught58:36you58:37about what what you need to do or take58:39away or give back58:42yeah uh taught me teaching me you know58:45um i i think58:48it is it is teaching me58:52that i can be okay58:55um in situations that i probably58:59prior to this would have said i would59:00not have been okay59:02um and it’s it’s giving me a glimpse59:06into our much much larger and longer59:11story59:11as humanity you know like i feel like59:14up until this point i only read about59:17epic moments in history59:19hopefully the closest thing that that59:21that i can say that i experienced would59:23be 9 1159:24you know um but this is different right59:28like59:28this is for sure an epic moment in59:31humanity59:32no no question this is this this would59:34go up in the history books with some of59:36the59:36biggest things that have ever happened59:38in in recorded history59:40and uh that is59:44awesome in the true sense of the word ah59:46right like it it um59:48it does make me look at the trees longer59:52it makes me look at the squirrels longer59:54it makes me59:55um pay more attention to my dreams it59:58makes me60:00value every conversation i’m having a60:02little bit more60:03it it it’s teaching me60:07when i’m having a bad day because oh my60:10god the hits keep coming60:12it’s like that is entirely okay you know60:15um and my emotions are not here to be60:17suppressed60:18they’re they’re they’re here to teach me60:20something60:21um you know it’s t i feel like i’m just60:24learning about life60:25the reality of life you know here i’m60:28i’ve raised two kids they’re 21 and 19.60:30i’m 44 years old i’ve done a bunch of60:32stuff i’ve never learned as much as i’ve60:34learned this year60:35yeah that’s that’s a big that’s a big60:38statement60:39oh there’s no question i mean this this60:41is i mean i i don’t know who else60:44someone tell me who else has like you60:45know had a bigger moment than60:47this is unbelievable like the stuff that60:49keeps happening60:50you know and uh and it’s also just like60:55i feel like there’s so many uh white60:57people specifically around the topic of60:59like racism where you know61:00white people are saying uh oh my god i61:02didn’t know i you know i can’t believe61:04how much i’m learning that’s like a61:05pretty common sentiment sure but i gotta61:08tell you like61:09you know i’ve had plenty of61:10conversations with black people where61:11we’re saying the same thing61:12you know because we had all sort of been61:14just living61:15with this acceptance of the way that it61:17was but now61:18that it’s an open everyday conversation61:21it all hits different you know what i’m61:23saying it’s not that we61:25like we certainly knew it was here but61:27man61:28it hits different when we’re talking61:31about it every day61:32you know and we’re protesting about it61:35and61:35we’re watching our president you know61:38not61:39acknowledge it and we’re watching people61:42openly try to gaslight us and we know it61:44and we’re just like61:45wow this you know what i mean like we’re61:48all learning about it i think in a in an61:50even in an even different way61:52and so yeah there’s just a ton of61:54learning so much learning happening61:56right now61:56yeah i think a number of people have61:58pointed out that it’s a very encouraging62:01time even as62:02as depressing and hard and emotionally62:05draining as it is62:06uh it’s a very encouraging time just62:08because62:10if you look at things through this the62:11macro lens of history62:14it’s like the discourse is elevating i62:16mean yes there’s resistance but if you62:18you know that the set of laws that are62:20frequently attributed to schopenhauer62:22about you know things are62:23violently opposed and uh ridiculed and62:26then accepted as62:27um accepted as a given i think it’s the62:30other way around it’s62:30ridiculed then violently opposed and62:32accepted as given then we’re definitely62:33in that violently opposed state62:35right the the violent opposition has62:38literally come forward literal violent62:42opposition62:43and that suggests if62:46if the pattern holds that we may be on62:49the verge of a genuine breakthrough62:51to where we get to that third stage that62:54equity is62:55genuinely accepted just taken as a given62:59and i don’t know whether we can expect63:01that you know63:03in a matter of a couple of years our63:04lifetimes whatever but63:06just to to know that if you can think of63:09it within that framework63:11you know if that framework is true that63:14you know that that we can take63:16you know some encouragement from63:18thinking63:19okay well it’s out there it’s happening63:21it’s surfaced63:23and if it’s surface that means that you63:25know sunlight is the best disinfectant63:26and we can just get this63:28get this done with we can get it the63:30conversations happening63:31get the knowledge out there yeah i don’t63:33think anyone finds the violent63:35opposition as a63:36as a place of comfort but i think but i63:39ultimately think you’re right63:40i ultimately think you’re right i agree63:41with you you know i i think63:43that’s the hard part right the hard part63:45is the hard part is the hard part63:47and we’re in the hard part right yeah63:49and excuse me if i articulated that63:51wrong i don’t mean to suggest that the63:52violence is63:53is comforting it’s more that the moment63:56suggests63:58that that may be the direction that64:00we’re moving through64:02uh yeah and it so by the way um64:05a little off topic but just the social64:07highest jack rutledge64:08drops in and says really good to be able64:10to drop in on the two of you in64:11conversation64:12what’s up jack good to see you jack64:15jackson the book64:16yeah i always have to remind jack the64:18jackson the book is jack the64:19mountaineering guide64:21at the end i uh i didn’t know that jack64:25got married to someone he met at your64:27wedding i love this64:29jack i want to hear all about it i’m64:31going to go check out i’m going to go64:32snoop on your facebook profile jack64:35and uh james gilchrist says lucky me my64:39colleague rescheduled squirrels rule64:41every smile as a gift and then says64:43tumultuous memories64:44moments in history have led to positive64:46greatest positive change they are just64:48challenging to live through which is a64:51fair i64:51feel like a fair statement amen um64:54one thing you know before we wrap and64:56these are all i mean i think that the64:58big picture65:00you know kind of humanity level65:01discussion is a65:03wonderful way to to wrap but i also65:05wanted to see if we could squeeze in65:07just a minute or two65:08of asking you about you know one of the65:10things that’s happened during covet is65:12certainly the the emphasis on telehealth65:14services and you know talking about65:16those digital transformation trends that65:17you’ve seen and65:18and you know what’s happening in terms65:20of 2020’s technology emphasis65:22certainly people have seen that jump in65:25in telehealth or ehealth services but i65:27would imagine that through your work65:29with65:29jumpstart and health further that you’ve65:31actually been seeing these services for65:33quite some time so i wonder what you65:36expect to emerge65:37as part of the human experience of65:39virtual healthcare65:40with technology what do you expect us to65:43see65:44in the the moments months years to come65:48yeah i i think uh thank you for asking65:50it in that way because it’s really65:52important to note that65:54uh telehealth as a technology just as65:56you would imagine just like we’ve had65:57skype and all these other things for a65:58long time telehealth has been around for65:59a very long time66:01it has not been uh appropriately66:03reimbursable66:04so the policy did not support widespread66:07use of it there was a lot of stuff66:08around66:09whether or not you could actually see a66:10doctor across state lines and66:12all these different regulatory barriers66:14that made telehealth just un66:17it just wasn’t viable it just wasn’t66:18viable of course we have a public health66:20emergency where people cannot actually66:22go into doctor’s offices well all those66:24regular regulatory barriers come down66:26because we got to keep things going66:28somehow and i think66:30uh when you have things like that happen66:32and then everything is fine and the sky66:34doesn’t fall people realize oh wow well66:36maybe66:36because they were always trying to66:38regulate to protect people but then they66:39realized66:40okay well we removed the regulatory66:42barriers and people were fine66:44so that regulation makes actually no66:46sense and people should have more choice66:47and they should be able to do telehealth66:49if they want to66:50and so i don’t think that we’re going to66:51be able to put that cap back in the box66:52i think66:53you know schrodinger’s cat reference66:55there66:57yes you know going forward uh telehealth67:00will be67:00will be a thing um we were already on67:03the path to doing more and more67:04uh healthcare in the home you know67:07patients feel more secure in the home it67:09is a better environment for healing67:11but again it was something that they67:13were trying to stop because67:14is the home an appropriate place for67:16healthcare to take place lo and behold67:18it’s just fine67:19we just have to create the appropriate67:20protocols for it so it’s gonna be more67:22and more67:22moving procedures out of you know67:25inpatient settings into the homes you’re67:27going to see a lot more of that67:28uh you know i i think that we’re we’re67:31finally going to start seeing some real67:32breakthroughs in innovation in67:33healthcare most of the67:35the lack of innovation has not been67:37because we didn’t have great thinkers67:39because we didn’t have great technology67:40because we didn’t have capital partners67:42willing to really back the innovation67:44it has largely been regulatory barriers67:47um67:47and and what moves in health care is67:49what’s reimbursable67:51so as new um codes for procedures come67:54up67:54that are reimbursable remote patient67:56monitoring was a huge one that came up67:57in the last year so now we have doctors68:00caring about it doctors will care about68:01what they can get paid for is the simple68:03uh you know sort of end of story and we68:06do finally have innovation68:07there from center for medicare and68:09medicaid services so68:11from that perspective it’s exciting and68:12i would just say you know68:14if there’s so much stuff around68:16healthcare but68:17but if you really want to know where68:19healthcare is going tune into68:21cms the center for medicare and medicaid68:23services in america they basically drive68:25the thing68:26and and it’s quite frankly not that68:28complicated for the average68:29you know uh american even the layman’s68:31like understanding you68:33you guys spent a month on it then you’ll68:35kind of get it so if you really want to68:37know where this is going just68:38track what’s happening at the cms and so68:41with that what are some of the the big68:44picture trends besides telehealth that68:46you see coming68:46in the future of tech and health that68:48intersection68:50they’re mostly at the business model68:51level um so uh68:53well okay the fda is experimenting with68:56many68:57types of fast tracking of things um i68:59think that this this69:00vaccine is a big motivator for that but69:03there’s69:03generally speaking i think there’s going69:04to be a lot more devices coming out69:07via fda fast track mechanisms69:10there is going to be much more uh69:13remote doctor supervision allowance69:16that’s going to start happening and so69:18this is not just telehealth but it’s69:19also like69:20who can do something with you with a69:24doctor somewhere else that’s actually69:25not69:26overseeing the procedure so it lowers69:28the cost of the69:29of the labor provider which should lower69:31the cost of the procedure for the69:33patients slash customer slash insurance69:35company69:36um so that’s that’s going to be uh on69:39the horizon as well69:40um there are some you know particular69:42service lines that are that are going to69:44see a lot of innovation uh end stage69:46kidney disease things of that nature69:48um but but look there’s there’s just a69:50ton of uncertainty69:51the truth is there’s a lot of69:52uncertainty i mean the death of rbg is69:54is69:55significant because it puts uh the aca69:58into real question as69:59as it pertains to a big supreme court70:01you know70:02case that’s up for it right now there’s70:05just a lot of uncertainty70:07health care is driven by d.c and there’s70:10a lot of uncertainty in dc so there’s a70:12lot of uncertainty in health care70:14i do think ultimately you know if you’re70:15looking 10 15 years out70:18we’re gonna see a much more efficient70:19much better healthcare system but70:21for the next four it’s kind of murky70:23because i don’t know where we’re gonna70:24be where we’re gonna land70:25that makes sense no thanks for that uh70:28forecast hey70:29real quick before we sign off and let70:31let people know how they can find and70:33follow you and your work online70:36marcus whitney.com marcus whitney on all70:39the socials70:41that’s it okay that’s easy70:45i am so grateful to you for joining me70:47and for allowing our conversation to go70:49in70:49organic directions uh you know into70:52business soccer70:53race social justice economy70:57everything and so i’m i’m i’m grateful70:59to you i i71:01appreciate our friendship and i’m so71:02glad that you were able to join me for71:04this71:04i’m so glad i was invited i get to call71:06my mom and tell her i made it i was on71:08the technical show71:09i can’t wait right thank you to everyone71:12who’s tuned in thank you for those of71:14you commented71:15and we’ll see you next week thank you71:17very much marcus71:20bye