Julie Penner on the MindMill PodcastJulie Penner is the former director of the famed Techstars business accelerator program.  She has worked with hundreds of diverse companies; challenging, empowering, and propelling them into new arenas of success.  Julie now works as COO of Halp.This episode is with Julie Penner (@soulofstartups), former director of the famed Techstars business accelerator program in Boulder Colorado.  She has worked with hundreds of diverse companies; challenging, empowering, exposing, and propelling them into new arenas of success.  Despite the endless metrics and data-points of analysis, Julie maintains that its always human development that governs the success of a company.  The Techstars accelerator has expanded to over a hundred global programs, but started in Boulder.  There are few people who have the collective knowledge and experience Julie possesses.  Julie now works as COO of Halp.Julie is one of those people who I immediately felt connected to.  She has incredibly demanding schedules and responsibilities, yet I have never had an interaction with her where she has come off rushed, uninterested, or not present.  This interview was much different than i expected.  I had prepared a series of analytical questions surrounding startups, founders, and processes.  While we touch on these topics,  the resounding theme of our conversation is on intentional self-growth and genuine connection.  We discuss the emotional challenges that founders face, embracing humanity to propel teams, the power of self-reflection, and strength through vulnerability.  We also touch on intentional ways to celebrate holidays, the Burning Man festival , and the Danish lifestyle of Hygge.  Julie is a fantastic individual, i learn so much from her every time we speak.  Im proud to share this conversation with Julie Penner on the  MindMill podcast.   https://youtu.be/HVULp7oG0DwSHOWNOTESABOUT JULIE PENNERBIOFrom Linked inI am currently the COO at Halp. Before Halp, I worked as Director at Techstars Boulder, investing and working with 60+ early-stage companies. Prior to Techstars, I worked as VP of Operations for Graphicly, an automated ebooks conversion and distribution platform. I managed a team of eight employees and contractors. My responsibilities included process improvement, weekly cash management and forecasting, contract management and negotiation, metrics tracking, HR and other non-product/sales functions. Prior to that, I worked as a corporate development analyst at Liberty Media. My work involved industry and company-specific research, strategy development, technology trend tracking, and valuation support. I graduated with an JD/MBA from University of Colorado focusing on entrepreneurship and technology in both the law school and the business school, graduating top third in my class with an entrepreneurial law certificate. Prior work also includes internships at SRS, a company that manages escrows and holdbacks in VC-backed M&A deals, Lijit (now Sovrn), a Boulder-based VC-backed startup and interning at the CU Tech Transfer Office. I also worked at Zeo, a Boston-based VC-backed startup that developed a consumer product. Specialties: consumer web, ebooks, eCommerce, strategy, social media, digital media, social commerce, entrepreneurship, start-ups, broadband, financial modeling, valuation analysis, market analysis. CONTACT JULIELinked InEmailHalp WebsiteInstagramTHE FEELING WHEELFull TranscriptJulie Penner| People over Product, Process, and ProfitIntro:Welcome to the MindMill Podcast, where host, Seth Marcus dissect and discussesall things impacting young adults. Peers, mentors and professional shareintimate conversations on subjects such as entrepreneurship, exercise andhealth, music and art, the blessings and curses of technology, travel, and howto navigate adulthood in this age of information. We are the largest generationin history and we dictate the future. The MindMill. Find your purpose. Fuelyour purpose.The MindMillbooklet has arrived. This back pocket notebook is designed to be your catchallfor daily life. For many of us, note taking is an absolute free for all. Anidea strikes us. A friend recommends a good book. We remember that the bill isdue tomorrow. What do we do? For most of my life, I was the quintessentialrandom note taker. I tried to jot things down on the back of receipts and keepnotes in my phone. These habits left me disorganized, and simply did not work.Without a system in place were doomed to continue scribbling on scraps,searching for random notes and getting lost in our phones. Letting our geniusslowly slip away. It is for that exact reason that we created the MindMill Booklet.It fits in your back pocket or purse and goes wherever you go. It’s packed withtemplates and organization systems for productivity and clarity. Features inthe booklet include dedicated areas for to do’s, categorize shopping lis, habittracking, cash transactions, idea developments, AM, and PM routines, and much,much more. This booklet is packed with useful and intuitive sections. Easy navigation, inspiring art, and powerful quotes. While the MindMill Booklet is incredibly easy to use, we’ve included a detailed instructive introduction to help guide beginners inexperienced noters alike in maximizing their writing habits and overall productivity. The MindMill Booklet is a game changer. Consolidating your daily ideas and notes while limiting distraction, giving you much-needed reprieve from your phone. Don’t get us wrong, we aren’t bashing technology. Tech is a wonderful tool in a crucial part of our society. But we see legions of distracted folks out there, and we’re here to help the world reclaim their attention spans. The booklet provides tips on how to use it alongside your tech to maximize productivity and design for your most mindful life. With the MindMill Booklet there are or no dings and alerts. Just your thoughts ready to be captured and developed. So whether you’re looking to optimize your productivity, build a writing practice or just limit your screen time. The MindMill Boklet, is your best companion. Go to the mindmill.com for more information, tutorial, sample pages, one hell of a podcast and much more.Seth Marcus:Hello, and welcome to the MindMill Podcast. Today’s episode with Julie Penner.Director of the famed Techstars business accelerator program in Boulder,Colorado. She has worked with hundreds of diverse companies. Challenging,empowering, exposing propelling them into new arenas of success. Despite theendless metrics and data points of analysis, Julie maintains that it’s alwayshuman development that governs the success of a company. The Techstarsaccelerator has expanded over a hundred global programs but started here in Boulder.There are few people who have the collective knowledge and experience Juliepossesses. Julie is one of those people who I immediately felt connected to. Shehas incredibly demanding schedules and responsibilities, yet, I have never hadinteraction with her where she has come off rushed uninterested or not present.This interview is much different than I expected. I had prepared a series ofanalytical questions, surrounding startups, founders, and processes. While wetouch on these subjects, the resounding theme of our conversation is onintentional self-growth and genuine connection. We discuss the emotionalchallenges that founders face, embracing humanity to propel teams, the power ofself-reflection, and strength through vulnerability. We also touch onintentional ways to celebrate holidays, the Burning Man Festival, the Danish Lifestyleof Hygee. Julie is a fantastic individual. I learned so much from her everytime we speak, I’m proud to share this conversation with Julie Penner on the MineMillpodcast.Seth: Well,Julie Penner welcome to MindMill Podcast.JuliePenner: Thanks Seth. It’s great to be here.Seth: It’sgreat to see you. It’s been a long time in the making. I remember verydistinctly when I, was like I want Julia to be on the show was when wespontaneously met at Techstars sustainability demo. It was just were walkingout early at the same time those. But no, we were both had to get out of thereand I was like, you look so familiar and we had met at a different event inDenver and you offered to give me a ride back to my car when I was going totake a scooter. So I really appreciate that.Julie: Inretrospect, I’ve ridden a lot of scooters maybe that would have been more fun.But I you know, I remember really enjoying our conversation.Seth: Yeah,we just had this very quick Powell across Denver metro, and I was like, awesomeJulie’s great and then that was totally strengthened when we shared New Year’sEve with that great group of people at Winter Park, and I was so floored by howintentional that New Year’s Eve was and you really have a big part puttingtogether. So thank you for that.Julie: Welcome.It’s great to have you as part of that.Seth: It seemedthat you and our mutual friend, Amy Baglan structure that, was theirinspiration for why that happened or is that something that you do every year?Julie: Ithink New Years, I’ve had both really good ones, and really terrible, probablymore terrible ones then than really great one because probably a sharedexperience. There can be expectations for that day that are hard to meet.Seth:Absolutely.Julie: It isa resetting of the clock. Each New Year is a time to be reflective. I enjoysome introspection, and I think those triggers around introspection are helpful,birthdays or another one. Sometimes they make us uncomfortable because notmeasuring up to some of the expectations that we might have for ourselves. ButI think there’s a power in New Year’s around saying what you want, reallychecking in with yourself around. Here’s where I’m at. Here’s what I set out todo last year. What worked? What didn’t? Then looking forward to the next year. Whatdo I want? Do I want more of what a have? Do I want something different? Beingintentional, right. I was reminded of this quote, actually, one of my founderswas talking about it yesterday. But this one, it’s sort of as always with me, “Thebest day to plant a tree was twenty years ago and the second best day to planta tree is today”, right? So if you’re going to make a change, or if you wantsomething different in your life, having the courage to realize that you’re notplanning the tree today and that you could, I think that’s part of why I thinkthat intentional setting around New Year’s was so important to me.Seth: Yeah, Ithink it’s very easy to be in a place of celebration and partying and be likewe’re letting loose tonight and tomorrow is, you know, from here on out, it’ssmooth sailing and perfection. But what we did in Winter Park was, you know, alot of very intentional, impersonal writing and reflecting on the year prior,rather than talking necessarily about what our ultimate goals are for thisupcoming year. And I think that is so much more powerful to really see the realchange and the real benefits or costs of the decision you’ve made in a year,rather than just looking for what perfection is, you know, resolving the nextday will be perfect, right?Julie: Oneof my mentors that has really impacted my life, his name is Agni. He works for Techstars, but he has taught me alot about learning. And he’s taught me a lot about for adults, we need timethat is purposeful and set aside in order to learn. Kids are like learningmachines. They walk around, they can’t help themselves from learning. Adults needspecific time for that and that’s been a skill that we have taught entrepreneurs,but it’s also been powerful for me. So, I think when you picked up on lookingbackwards, the retrospective part of what we did at New Years. I think that’swhat you’re seeing is my deep belief that learning needs intentional time andwe sometimes get over that really easy. The just keep going to think you’ve gotthe learnings to rob yourself from the setting aside of time that really says,here’s what I expected to happen, or here’s what I want to have happen andhere’s what actually happened. That gap is where you really learn and sothinking about a year, I had written down things from the year prior, right? Andthen so I can bring those into my reflection about how that year went and seewhat was missed, what was a make, what was learned and carry that forward. Thatfeels so much more powerful than just projecting forward without the context ofwhat the last year has brought, what I’ve learned have grown. There’s anotherpiece of what was really important to me and this is my own personal. It’s oneof my growth edges, is being intentional about being grateful and appreciatingthe people who are in my life has been a skilled, I’d have to buildintentionally. Some people are really good at it, naturally. I don’t know ifyou know those people, I don’t know where they learned it right? I’m a littlejealous that they are just very mindful of others and always remember toappreciate and thank people. I feel like I have to remember that it has to be ahabit that I build and so- moments of awareness, like the ones that New Year’s wherethere were questions like who someone that you really appreciate for their contributionto your year? That was one question. The next question was have you thankedthem?Seth: That’sright.Julie: Right.And it’s in that moment of like, oh my God, I didn’t thank the people who arereally impactful to me this year, or there was another question there; who doyou want to spend more time with? Who do you want to get together in 2019 or thisfeature year and have you told them? I did that and it was such a powerfulbonding moment with that person. It would been so easy to skip over it. That’sto me is intentional living. Gets me up in the morning.Seth: Alsowas very powerful because of the community that we were doing it with. We arein Winter Park, there were people skiing, there were people reflecting, therepeople relaxing, and just staying warm and then we had this very wonderfulfamily dinner, followed by two hours, maybe two and a half hours of writing, reflecting,discussing these answers and being vulnerable with each other and it’ssomething that I personally value my writing practice, but that was one of thefirst times that I had really felt that I was in a circle of peers. And then wewere all valuing the same thing. Very electively, right. This wasn’t a workconference. We didn’t sign up for it. This is just what we decided to do on thelast day of the year and I think that really magnified the impact. I saw someof those people just this last weekend, and we reflected on it, too, and said, thatit’s really, it really changed projection to not necessarily be in this kind ofbased off of, you know, also the conference that we are all at the other day,but it turned into less about these big ultimate goals and sales numbers, andaccomplishments, and more about honoring a system that encourages success,happiness, and ultimately just disciplines that encourage happiness.Julie: Yeahand add learning and joy and appreciation to that list, right. It wasn’t anaccident in my opinion that we did that kind of reflection work, and held thatspace for each other to be vulnerable and really share about our years in aspace that was also very playful. That was also very social. I think there is apotential fallacy out there that you have to do it separately. It needs to beserious, and I just reject that. The fact that it is learning comes along withplay, comes along with laughter and a dinner that we cook together, not anaccident. I think those are all such opening events and kind of part of theprocess of getting to being really ready to be introspective. I think it’s muchharder to walk into. Okay. I’m going to sit down now and be introspective.Seth: Right.Julie: It’sjust like a hard break to make from the rest of your chaotic or busy life tosit down and do that. And actually, the year before the experience, I wasinvited to someone else’s house who had kind of like a potluck lunch. It wasall women, and there were about the same number of people, had a dozen peoplebut the host created some space for us to just reflect on our year. He had morework which is longer than what we did. But I have a similar experience, I thought,wow, like there’s something social here. There’s something collective andsupportive here. There are some playfulness here and bringing that to adifferent group in a different format the next year felt, right? And I think thatI something I’ll stick with hopefully going forward into more reflective times.Seth: Totally.You know on that day, you had introduced me to Hygee.It’s that how I pronounce it?Julie: HygeeSeth: Hygee,right. I think that, that has a lot to do with why we did what we did on New Year’sEve. Would you mind, expanding little bit on how you discovered Yuga in what itis because this is a new concept to me. Yeah, obviously, the themes made a lotof sense, but I had never heard of this. Julie: Yeah andall on straight up that I’m not Danish. Don’t speak Danish and probably don’thave the right Danish pronunciation. H y g g e, my sister-in-law, who speaksNorwegian gave me a lesson, and but I don’t think we say, right. Hygee is sortof the Danish art of coziness, and that’s the best American or Englishtranslation for the concept. But I think it’s much deeper culturally. More inthe winter than in the summer. More with friends than alone. It kind ofpervades their culture, right. You can have Hygee lighting. You can have a Hygeecave or croagh. When you go have a reading nook. We might call the reading nookand a house, but it’s Hygee croagh in Danish, right. And I found that conceptactually when I was in Prague. Picked up a book, it’s by the institute ofhappiness, I think is the book and now is becoming kind of more of like Geistas people talk about Hygee. I think something that American cultures reallymissing. This art of bringing a small groups of friends together, seed in slowfood cooking. That’s very Hygee maker goods. I do pottery now. So if you cometo my house, and I have a party, you’re likely to drink out of a mug that Imade rather than a mug that I bought.Seth: Good.Julie:Right. That’s very Hygee or cozy. I think it’s the interest in Americanculture. In my opinion is the reflection of how I’m missing this simple,connected, cozy, comfortable time with people on really self-care for ourselves.If it’s Hygee kind of a lawn in your house like quiet, light a candle and turnon a light or turn on the fireplace. Fireplaces are very Hygee and candles arevery Hygee. There’s this crazy statistic about, I think the Danes burn morecandles per capita than any other country in the world, unscented candles, andthat to me is a reflection of like what they value this simple time that we skipright over. But we want it. We need it but were kind of crappy at it.Seth: Right.We’ve lost our way.Julie: Yeah.Seth: Right.You know, these things came a lot more naturally before the technologicalrevolution..Julie:Right. Yeah. We’re super connected. Just this weekend, I spent two nights offsiteup in a mountain house. We do a founder retreat. We take about twenty foundersup in the woods and on Friday night, two nights, Friday and Saturday night. OnFriday night, the internet went down and a bunch of tech founders, it was likea panic moment. And then once they settled in it was such a benefit. Nobody’s ontheir phones. Nobody was on the computers and so easily reminded of how much weare wired to connect when we don’t have something taking away, our distractingus, and I think Hygge is akin to that, right? If you make a space that isdesigned for that slowed down relaxed space. It is also a place to connect withothers more deeply than we do when we kind of running around with our phones.Seth: Yeah,it is so powerful. I wasn’t completely disconnected but when I went travelinglast year, I made it very big point that I was going to, we have kind of, likeoffice hours of connectivity. No phone plans. I wasn’t searching for wifi whileI was jumping around cities and things like that, you know, it was very muchlike my phone was for audible and for taking occasional photos. It reallyencouraged so much connection with other travelers with the locals and yourealize these things, especially when you set intentional time to do that.Because at this point, they’re really, you know, just goes back to what we weretalking about earlier, like, if you don’t set time and intention to do this toconnect, it slips through your fingers because they’re so much demand on reallyanybody in this day and age. But especially people in your line of work, andthe people in the founders and the people that you work with, you know, there’sjust this never ending demand on your time, and on your attention. There’salways more to be done, and so it can seem so fruitless to light a candle or tomake a cup or to connect, and yet, we consistently feel more disconnected.Although, all the metrics show how we’ve never been more connected, right. Youknow, like I I’ve got this much connectivity with everybody, I can see it on myphone right now. But yet I feel hollow, right.Julie: Isn’tthat a powerful dichotomy? I mean, I think that is the tension that ourgeneration is going to have to figure out for our own well-being. We’re goingto figure it out or not.Seth: Weddingscoming, you know. I think that were in a very fortunate position to be in thisarea of the country and to have this awareness, but that doesn’t mean that it’snot the beginning of something and that, you know, the people listening tothis, they feel that same feeling. Like why do I- Julie: listeningto this two X in their car while driving, you know. Well, yeah.Seth: Right.Well, it’s giving emails and seeing there-Julie: inthe background while cross boarding through YouTube.Seth: That’show most people listen to my (inaudible). Ithink that there’s these resurgence of the appreciation of, you know, I guesswe’ll call it Hygee from now on where I mean it seems to be very in line withmindfulness practices of really just being intentional and present in whatyou’re doing and spending time to be focus on what is happiness, what is trueconnectivity. You know, diving deep with onerather than skimming the surface with thousands, right.Julie: Ithink we’re also finding greater appreciation for places that don’t allow ourphones. I can think into more that came up other than the retreat. We also makeclean agreements around no phones in our conscious leadership groups that wedo. No phones except to keep time and they’re always on disabled. And the otherone actually is, you have been to burning man, a couple of years, and it’sreally funny to watch the connectivity which starts out, okay and as morepeople arrive. The seventy thousand people who come totally overwhelmed thecell tower and they basically have no connectivity and it kind of comes back upon the other end as people start to leave. But those are both places that Itreasure and I don’t think the two are unrelated because the emphasis is reallyaround connecting with people.Seth: Yeah,it’s funny like we’ve already brought up a few, and I know I’ve talked about itbefore on the podcast, but for me, my strongest experience with theconnectivity through disconnectivity philosophy was in the nightclubs ofBerlin, where they put sticker. Some places, they would just take your phoneand you check it, like your coat, you know, and it was, you know, it wasn’tlike you weren’t worried about getting stolen this was like the staff andhundreds and hundreds of people are doing the same thing. Or they would putstickers over the front and back cameras. Such an exclusive club experience,sort of thing where, you know, if you’re seeing just on your phone, that’s nota good vibe, and you’ll get booted out. And especially if you’re taking photos,a lot of this for their own kind of selfish capitalist reasons where they wantto create like a scarcity, like a very wild event. This is a very special placethat, you know, they don’t want to necessarily show all over the internet. Youhave to get in to see it to experience it, and I understand that too. But, youknow, the flip side is that nobody has that on them. So everybody is like,well, you can either have a bad time or you could get out there, and be a partof this. I don’t even like dance music.Julie: We’rehuman again. Remember what it was like, you know, we’re from a generation, Ihad my first cell phone when I was in college. I grew up without thatconnectedness and. I think that will be the last generation that really feelsthat way, as a kid.Seth: In thesame way, there wasn’t even an option. I think that what we’re talking aboutis, there’s hopefully a resurgence, especially in the parenting community and intothe next generation of kids to encourage genuine connection to strengthen thosemuscles. Otherwise, you’re just consistently feeding the technologicalconnection, the iPads all day. And, you know, just the extinction of boredom. Boredomis always bad and boredom should never be explored. You know as a kid it waslike the boredom was where you figured out what you’re into right? It was likethis is how I make a new friend. This is how I learned to ride a bike. This ishow I get into trouble. You know you learn your barriers. You know, you learnwell or Julie:You’ll have that great idea. That mental quietness that gives you time to thinkof something creative.Seth: Startcreating into building something in your eyes or you know, you start to findyour passions, you know, and it comes out of the curiosity spawned fromboredom, and now, you know, now it’s very difficult to have the discipline,especially as a child, you know. We’ll do I want to watch another awesomecartoon, like ten thousand of them on Netflix right now that you can pick fromor you know.Julie: Ijust had a story come up for me around envisioning the future, where people paymoney to walk into a completely white walled room with twelve other people thatthey don’t know and like shut the door. Almost like an escape room but there’sabsolutely nothing in it.Seth: It’scalled a boredom room?Julie: Boredom.It’s like we sell it by the hour. You can pay twenty bucks to be in this room.(Time – Seth: I bet(Not clear) Silicon Valley about it and make itmillion dollar business.Julie: I thinkthat’s amazing.Seth: Justlike creating boredom room somewhere San Francisco. I like it and that’s a freeidea for anybody out there looking for something to build. You have touched onburning man a couple times since we started talking. I have never been, althoughfrom talking to a lot of my friends and peers, they are almost surprised thatI’m not a regular goer because of things I talk about on the show and mypassion for traveling, and things like that. You are a pretty seasoned burnerat this point, are you not?Julie: Youknow season burner, I think of like this, sixty five year old couple who’s beengoing for, like twenty years.Seth: Sure,it’s all relative right?Julie: Youknow they say, a season burner for me is someone who is there before the LEDinfusion.Seth:  Sure.Julie: I’msomewhere in the middle of. Not new. This will be my fourth burn in August. We’realready kind of planning for that excursion as a camp. I’m somewhere in themiddle. I feel like of now hosted others that are new to the experience and yethave respect for the stories of people who’ve been there a lot longer and seenother things and experience so many different kinds of people and so much art.It’s a cool community and I’m glad I’m a part of it.Seth: Ithink it’s the strongest ally what we’re talking about connections throughcuriosity and not through technology, and obviously, it has an incrediblesocial media presence. You know, everybody knows about burning man but then youget there and you’re completely blown away.Julie: Yeah,it’s such a radically different experience between the stories about burningman, and embodied the experience of burning man and I think that’s what peoplecan poke fun at it because you can’t understand, like that cool. There’ssomething real there, which is I had, a set of experiences that were emotional,and psychological, and thoughtful and I experienced them in person in a relativelyextreme environment. Without having similar embodied experience, you won’tunderstand. So I think that’s also part of the draw part of the mystique, and Ithink that’s a good thing. That’s fine with me in. It’s all find poke fun atright. There’s nothing like the reference of burning man, about burning man tosort of the whole thing circular. Feel free to poke fun at it, right? Burningman is a place where that kind of a (not sure – humor is very welcome.Seth: Whatissues me the most about burning man is that it attracts such a diverse amountof people, you know, I think that the term burner is like calling somebody ahippie or even some sort of political alliance. You know, it’s like it’s such abroad term for a complete individual. And so, to be to be a burner means thatyou could be a tech founder, a Techstars graduate or something like that.That’s going for a certain set of reasons or the complete opposite. You know, avagabonding artist that is there for a different set of reasons and yet theconnection there when these two people can meet and form a lifetime friendshipthrough these experiences and a lot of ways the challenges of burning man. Ithink I may have talked a little bit about this over New Year’s Eve about howconnections are formed, such a stronger bond when there’s challenges involved.People share an experience that involves him outside of their comfort zone.That’s why traveling, you meet people and you have such a great connection withthem because you’re both out there. Don’t know where you are and you don’t knowyour surroundings at the time-Julie: Idesigned that experience the founders that are with me for thirteen weeks. Wedon’t make it hard just for that the sake of it being difficult but we do feellike because it’s hard. It does bring them together more and that’s a goodthing. So I’m on the same page.Seth: I knowa few different people who have gone through Techstars, but I don’t know, obviously,I haven’t been in the program itself. Would you mind discussing a little bit topeople who don’t know anything about Techstars, where it started, where it’s heading?Julie: Yeah.Where it’s heading is pretty big and I’ll talk more about my experience kind oftext or so. So I feel very lucky. I’ve been at Techstars for the last fiveyears here in Boulder. Techstars started in Boulder in 2007 and I’ve had somethingon the order of 1800 technologies startups go through a Techstars program.There are now I think 47 of them around the world. So it’s very much like anetwork for entrepreneurs to connect with each other and help them succeed. Andthe boulder program is where it all started. So there’s some magic there in me.There’s a legacy there for me. It’s a thirteen week program. We take tencompanies getting great mentors. We coach them on things that we think are themost important things for them to pay attention to as early stage, techcompanies, and we’ve had some success along those lines over the last thirteenyears, twelve or thirteen years is the thirteenth program in Boulder. So I am on astaff that puts that program together once a year and I have a few lines aboutit that feel really true. One of them is I pick my 30 newest friends every yearbecause I’m choosing along with the other program staff, the ten companies thatare going to be part of our program for those thirteen weeks and spending thisweekend, like just got done doing with these 30 founders in the woods talkingabout feelings. Talking about co-founder issues and watching that class reallycome together as a group is so enlightening to me. And watching them beyondthis journey, beyond our time together, our thirteen weeks, we help them passthe program. Of course, we’re investors, we want them to succeed. We havevested interest in just like a personal interest in them but these thirteenweeks feel really special and special for us because for me it’s time in withthose founders. They are my main focus, even kind of friends in my socialcircles, we’ll take a backseat during this time. I really focus on thesefounders. For them, it’s a special time for their company. So it’s a time whena ton of resources are at their disposal. I’ve called a buffet or a firehouse,right? How much do you want to eat from the buffet? We will keep feeding it toyou as much as you can handle. It’s very capacity, defying experience foreveryone.Seth: Sure.Julie: Ilike living at that pace and then I need rest and relaxation and afterwards, Ican repeat the cycle.Seth: So howoften are the programs?Julie: Justonce a year.Seth: Once ayear in Boulder?Julie: Yeah!Seth: Butthere’s also some like off shoots to in this area alone, right. I mean-Julie: Ohyeah.Seth: The sustainabilityprogram.Julie: Right.Seth: I wentto the original Techstars to see the mindful present and then this last fallfor the sustainability program. Are there differences between these programs orseems like the emotional endurance is one of the most stressed beams in theTechstars program because I think above all else you have to be able to make itwith what’s going to happen.Julie: Yeah,ride the emotional roller coaster of being an entrepreneur. I’ve never seen asuccessful company that didn’t have massive ups and downs and being able topersevere with thrive and have resiliency through those ups and downs is forsure part of the game. There are 47 Techstars programs around the world. Thereare some things that are common to all of them, like they are all mentorshipdriven. They all plug into our network. They all have partners, global partnersthat they help them accelerate their business, bunch of other things. They alsoare all unique. So it’s a different way to have a scalable entrepreneur networkand a lot of them are at least in part reflection of the people running them,kind of the individual program stuff. So me, I personally run Techstars Boulderwith (Name). He and I have a philosophy aroundinvesting in coaching companies that is reflected in the companies we choose inthe way that we coached them and the resources that we give them that is alsounique to us on top of what is a standard Techstars program. And every programdoes that, they just, it’s a reflection or amplification of what’s important tous.Seth: Just likethe companies that are in the program.Julie: Right.So for us, one of the phrases that really resonates is building great companiesfrom the inside out. That means something pretty particular to us, and what itmeans in particular is that you as the founder, you’re the CEO, or you’re anotherco-founder, right. Your values, your strengths, your shadows, your background,your context will be amplified throughout your company. First three leadershipteam you bring on and ultimately throughout the entire company, which means ifthat’s true, so that’s the assumption that we’re making because we’ve seen itplay out, if that’s true, that means work on you as a founder will also amplifyout to your entire company. So if I can add to your self-awareness or if I canadd to your social competency, or if I can add your awareness round others. WhateverI can add to in terms of your skill set as a leader, whatever I can bring toyour awareness that changes how you are as leader or makes it so that you canget the best out of everyone around you build a place of work where everyonecan succeed, not just the people who are like you. I think we build a bettercompany and that’s something that (Natty – I believe deeply. I don’t think you’d necessarily get people who would arguewith that but there’s a difference between believing that that’s true andoperationalizing content and inexperience that does the work of doing that. Andthat’s what I think is really unique about what we’re doing in Boulder. Itspart of why I’ve been there for five years and continue to learn and grow ambiancefired by those transformational processes that take place in the program at thepersonal level. In addition to the company work and making progress andaccelerating the company, we’re celebrating people the people that wereaccelerating. These founders have influenced the world. They’re building thesecompanies, they’re funded, and they’re role models and a lot of different ways.Not just the companies they are building, but also in their communities. So tome, it’s leveraged impact. It’s just hugely inspiring to me.Seth: Yeah.It’s inspiring every time I talked to someone who’s been in the program or seena demo day. You know, that fire of life is in these people when they’re comingout of these programs, and it’s really inspiring. Do you have any suggestionsfor younger entrepreneurs or companies that may know about Techstars are like,well, how do I get to Techstars, right?Julie: Yeah.You know we say you can’t go wrong by building a great company.Seth: Yeah.Julie: It’salso a network. I’ve seen people who just keep showing up. Just keep learning.Get involved. I think those are all key ways to become better, build a bettercompany. If you’re young entrepreneur, here’s the dichotomy that you have todeal with or here’s the point of attention that you’re going to run into. How doI learn from the experiences of others who’ve hit roadblocks that I’m going tohit or had challenges that are going to be like the challenges that I have. Howdo I take the most from their experience, but also acknowledged that I have adifferent business at a different time in the world with a different worldview? The world has changed since though, experience happened and thisdifferent business. How do I hold those two together? And I think that can bereally hard for young, entrepreneurs who can go to extremes either they getsee-sawed, or spun around, whatever meant they talk to next and how they seethe world or they tune it all out and say, they don’t know my business.Seth: Right.Julie:  And neither one of those are really helpful.Seth: Right.Julie: Somewherein the middle where you say, I have a north star. A true, a core belief, by theway I have a question to get to it. A core belief that’s guiding me. I can Ican question it from time to time. I’m not going to let other people question it.I have this core belief that I’m going to make progress along and then I’m goingto let data come in and I’m just going to take all the stories and advice. Soyou should blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Okay. That’s data. I can choose to dowhat I want with it. And if I get opposing data, that’s interesting, ratherthan saying, oh, I’m getting whiplashed by my mentors. That’s a commoncomplaint. Okay, well, I’m getting opposing data which means I don’t thinkanybody really knows. You probably have to experiment on it. I think thatconfidence as an entrepreneur, to know the difference between data and what youknow is true or the assumption you’re making, that’s different from anybodyelse in the market, what you believe to be true and holding the two together.That’s a skill.Seth: It is.And as you say it, I can’t help would be a little introspective with what am Ibelieving? What should I be rethinking? You know, it’s just a just theintroduction to those ideas on such a large level like Techstars program. Isalready edging my comfort zone. You know what I mean? Julie: Sometimeshappens right, where you talk to mentor and you’ll talk to ten mentors and theyall tell you the same thing. The other trap is not listening to that ratebecause then, like the data is overwhelming. And I think it becomes much harderto totally ignore the data. I think they know something about the market. Ifyou really believe the opposite is true, you better go find a lot of evidence.And I’m not saying that they are right, notice I’m still not convinced thatit’s not a different time, a different place. You have a different businessthat you could be right and everybody around you could be wrong. That’s totallypossible. I’m just saying. Now the need to build evidence that you’re right andthey’re wrong is absolute the most important thing to digress.Seth: Thepitfall on one side of the equation is if you follow all the conventionalwisdom, and you follow the data, then you just become another company thatdoesn’t have any unique marketability, right? You’re just another competitor.You’re just kind of like scrapping for the same market share and you’refighting the uphill battle.Julie:You’re like everyone else.Seth:Exactly. But then on the other side of it is you could be so obscure that younever find your core market. You never actually prove your concept and makethis company legitimate.Julie: You havea fatal flaw in your go to market plan and you refuse to hear it.Seth: Yeah.Julie: Iremember, I’ll tell a quick story. The first sort of I worked for was back inBoston. It was a company that eventually was called Zeo. It was a sleepheadband that you wore at night and it gave you a very detailed readout of howyou slept dock it in the morning before I phones, new consumer hardware in2003. Pretty ambitious and we’re all college students and I think the oldest ofus was 23. We had no idea what we were doing, in lots of ways but we’re reallypushing the edge of what we could create and everybody when they saw theproduct thought, cool, can you put on your wrist or something. It wasconsistent feedback, nobody wants to wear it on your head. And our pushback waswe had a good reason for that pushback which is well your wrist doesn’t sleepthe same way that your brain does. So wearing something on your wrist doesn’tgive you the same datas does on your head. So no. And then we watched thingslike Fitbit, eventually tracking some other things. But the most resistance, weencountered consistently for years, was around wearing on your head, and I havewonderings about what might have been different and the company did raisesignificant amount of money went to market. I’m really proud of what the teambuilt and created and push the boundary for have how consumers can know moreabout their sleep, but ultimately people don’t were headband, and I wonder ifwe had accepted that input that data that was so consistent from the earlydays, if we wouldn’t have been something different.Seth: If youwould have been a Fitbit competitor at the very beginning.Julie: Yeah.Seth: Storieskind of mirrored with the Google glass campaign, right. Where like a set ofglasses and has a screen up in corner was very avant-garde. In this newtechnology, the future of wearables teck and it failed miserably. You know, oneof the biggest companies on the planet. It’s fascinating and it can definitelybe maddening to finding that balance. And it’s so representative of our livestoo, you know, it’s this balance between your own north star, and not being toorigid in your ways to not listen to feedback and people who, especially,socially, when people were coming from a place of truth and love, you know, andnot necessarily just spewing their own bullshit on you, right? You know they’rehaving a bad day so they’re telling you all you’re doing. That’s not right.Something that comes up a lot on the show of, like the doctrine versusspontaneity, and where to find your balance. It’s just different for everyperson. The seeking of finding the mentor that’s going to tell you all theright things. It just truly doesn’t exist, because it will always be a mixture,a concoction of what you’ve picked up your own experiences in your own corebeliefs.Julie: Oneof the topics that came up for us this weekend that really blew me away howmuch energy there was around. It was giving and receiving feedback, come tiesto what we’re talking about. You’re getting feedback from mentors but what doesit mean for you to really be open to feedback, can be a very challengingquestion? And we talked a little bit about situations where someone says theirwords that they’re open to feedback. But their body language and their tone,makes you think that they aren’t. How do you deal with situations like that? Seth: This iscoming from the perspective of the person giving the feedback?Julie: Yeah.Right. And we had some of our coaches. We do a lot of coaching in our program.We think coaches can be an incredibly powerful mirror for what an outsider or who’snot attached to your business can see that you might not be aware of, goingback to awareness. Got a couple of coaches’ say, you say you’re open tofeedback, but I don’t believe you, right. And that’s really powerful. If youcan take that in, and say, well, how am I showing up in a way where like, but Isaid, I was opened to feedback.Seth: You’recorner with that, right? You know, I don’t think you could take feedback verywell and they’re like, well where do-Julie: Wheredo I go with that? I think it’s, I don’t believe it comes from like you’resaying one thing, but I’m feeling another. And not everybody can reflect thatto you. It’s powerful when somebody does. What does it mean to be really opento feedback? And it was fascinating, we went around the room at one point as anopening and the moderator, the facilitator asked, how you would rate yourselffrom one to five on giving feedback, and receiving feedback. And most peopleare better at one than the other. Very few people in the middle, very fewpeople feel good at both, right. So there’s some learning just there. There aresomeone who for whom it’s easy to give feedback, and there are whom easier toreceive feedback and whereas the potential resistance there? And as anentrepreneur, if you don’t know which one is easier for you, because they’reboth going to be liabilities as a CEO or a founder, if you aren’t aware ofwhich one you’re good at or bad at. There are strengths and weaknesses also. Iwas just really fascinating to see folks kind of own where they are in terms ofbeing able to give and receive feedback. What’s holding them back?Seth: Right.Diving a little further into that concept, you decide that you would likefeedback from your employees from your team and the team gives feedback and youdo receive it very well. However you digest it, you organize it, and you decidethat you’re not going to actuate the feedback that one of your team membersgave, although you did receive it, and you did very honestly listen and took itto heart, but you chose not to act on it. That can cause such a rift in anyrelationship, but especially in a professional relationship. Do you have anyadvice for the next step in that process?Julie: Yeah,I do actually. So I went to a workshop, it was consciousleadership workshop – The Fifteen Commitments of Conscious Leadership, we’re facilitating thisworkshop, and we talked a little bit about feedback. And when it came up, thisfacility said there’s a difference between when somebody gives you feedback, askingyourself is this true about me versus a stance or a mindset of asking yourself,how is this true of me. In other words, if I assume you gave me that feedback andthat data comes from somewhere then can I take it in and look for evidence thatsupports your feedback about me. And if I can’t find it then I’ll come back toyou, and say, I checked, I care about the feedback you gave me. I don’t knowwhere that evidence for that back comes from. Can you help me find it? That’s whatcuriosity in its deepest sense looks like. I don’t know that, that gets to like,if you do that process, and you don’t make a change that I think, is aconversation around, what are clean agreements?; what does clarity in yourrelationship look like; where are you in your integrity with the relationshipthat you have? Like that’s a conversation you can have. Is there a request thatperson is making because I don’t see feedback as a, please do this. That mightbe a request that comes after feedback. Feedback though, is the facts, stories,emotions around what happened for that person. This is my experience of you.It’s a gift back to you and I am not attached to it, unless I make a requestand I’m doing it because I want you to grow. I want you to be your best, orthere’s a need that I have. Well those can be a little different, right? Theneed that I have or the request that I’m making from you, that’s optional atthe end of feedback, in my opinion.Seth: Yeah.Julie: Doesthat makes sense?Seth: In themost altruistic form. I know because I think more often than not when, you knowsomeone has the floor for feedback, it’s very much mixed with an expectation ofchange, right.Julie: Yeah.I wonder in that statement, like if there isn’t asked about getting, is there arequest you have for me. I hear your experience. I’d like to bring that toanother conversation. Do you have a request for me? A clean agreement isdefining it under the conscious leadership terms, which I like, who does whatby when? Because when we’re not clean about what we agree with each other, that’swhen drama can unfold, as a result. That’s been powerful insight for us and ifI’m upset about something, maybe I can go back to a place where we didn’t havea clean agreement and make one. So those are your tools to just get a lot clearabout our relationship and have a conversation about them. You alluded tosomething that is always in the background with these conversations, right. Ithink I’m surrounded by very thoughtful, and conscientious and loving, caringpeople, and I feel very privileged by that. I’ve also created an environment mylife where that’s what I’m surrounded by. It’s not what everybody is surroundedby. So that psychological safety to feel like you can do that may not be thereand that’s okay. I think taking care of yourself first is important, but Ithink, as a leader, if you are an entrepreneur, and you are the person at thehelm of that company. It’s your job to hold that psychological safety as veryimportant for your group, where they can, you can be candid, and people can becandid with you. Two sides of candor. I think sometimes leaders, especially big,visionary, powerful, influential people can miss the second part of candor. Peoplefor whom others can have candor with you. I know that was a huge shift for me. Like,oh, well I’m candid all the time.Seth: Right.Because, you can speak your mind.Julie: I canspeak my mind. I don’t have a lot of withholds from people, but I tend to beconfrontation seeking, and I tend to be very direct and I can have a confrontationalstyle. That gets me a lot of things as a leader. But there’s some liabilities asI become more aware of them. When I got more conscious about how I was showingup and how I was inviting people into a conversation. People were more candidwith me, and I noticed the change, and I think any leader can have that oneither side. Whether you’re better at giving me back or receiving feedback. Beingcandid with others verses people being candid with you. There’s a growth for onalmost everybody I know.Seth: Right.Otherwise, we would have a new species of perfection, right?Julie: Yeah.Can you imagine that conversation?Seth: Well,it’s kind of hard to even think about the amount of vulnerability you have tohave as a leader of, especially a team of five or fifty or five hundred peopleto be able to lead them through vulnerability and through symbiotic candor,right. I guess that’s the right way.Julie: Ilike it.Seth: Youhave such a wealth of fantastic verbiage that, you know, that puts these intoplace.  I’m sure it’s from years andyears of working in the spaces. But Julie, it’s really empowering to me as ayoung business owner to hear from you, the ultimate importance of emotionalgrowth and focus on your mentality in order to be successful in anything, inyour life, especially in this world of startups. Where it just seems that it’sso easy to get drawn into the KPI’s you know, the metrics.Julie:Growth editing cost.Seth: Right.You know, I knew there was more to it, but coming into this conversation, youknow, I thought that there would be a lot of tricks of the trade. With you justshift your marketing spending, Google ad words. You know, you’re good to go.You know but it’s not like that, you know, there’s so much to it, and it allboils down to companies are made of humans despite the programs they create.Your companies only are only as strong as the humans that formed it.Julie: Here’smy trick of the trade. People over process product or profit.Seth: Peopleover process product or profit.Julie: Peoplefirst. We are like you mentioned, organizations full of people. And I thinkwhen you take care of them, they’ll take care of you.Seth: Julie,thank you so much for your time. I feel like we could keep going. You know, wealways get into some good conversations when we see each other.Julie: Thanksfor having me Seth. It’s been such a pleasure.Seth: Yeah.I’ll make sure to include all the ways to connect with Julie in the show notes.Is there anything that you’d like to say to the people before we head off?Julie: Ijust want to say that, I think this is a perpetual journey. You’re neverarrived, but being open to or having a growth mindset around who you are as aleader and how you show up in organization as a leader, regardless of title. Ijust think that’s worthier, and it’s worthy work that excites me. And that’s aconversation you want to have and I’m open to it.Seth:Fantastic. I really, really appreciate your time.Julie:Absolutely:Seth:Bye-byeJulie:Cheers.Outro: Hey everyone, thanks so much for listening to the MindMill podcast. If you loved this episode, check out some of the other MindMill episodes. They are all free and available at the themindmill.com as well as all major podcasting platforms. Also, please take a moment to leave a rating and review on apple podcasts. It’s incredibly easy and really is the best way to support the show. Stay tuned for more MindMill episodes coming down the line. I’ll keep them interesting for you. I promise. Take it easy.Thanks so much for listening to The MindMill Podcast!For all MindMill Episodes Click Here! Support The MindMill Podcast. LEAVE A REVIEW!