This episode reflects on the systems engineering challenge of reducing risk of virus transmission - the human factors. Inspired by conversations with two great mentors today, one an epidemiologist, former professor and friend, and the other an aerospace engineer and friend who (actually!) enjoys endless conversations about COVID and how we can be better managers and communicators. Recorded while running (what?!), and thinking about running this endurance race against (with?) the indefatigable virus. Thank you for listening, and I hope you enjoy!