This episode was originally released January 26th for Death Panel patrons and is being re-aired today. To support the show and help make episodes like this one possible, become a patron at www.patreon.com/deathpanelpodIn the shadow of the federal occupation of Minneapolis and a year of catastrophic expansion of the carceral state, Beatrice speaks with Ruth Wilson Gilmore and Craig Gilmore about their concept of “the anti-state state,” the process of the state’s transition from supporting social welfare to policing its provision, and why abolition is the only way.For further discussion of fascism and the anti-state state we recommend this week's patron episode with Alberto Toscano, which was directly spurred on by this episode with Ruthie and Craig. Link here: https://www.patreon.com/posts/late-fascism-w-150947880Find Ruth WIlson Gilmore's book Abolition Geography here: https://bookshop.org/a/118130/9781839761713Transcript: https://www.deathpanel.net/transcripts/anti-state-state-rwgWe're testing out a new Bookshop.org page (still under construction), where you can find books by past guests and book recommendations from the hosts. Find it here: bookshop.org/shop/deathpanelShow links:Get Health Communism here: https://bookshop.org/a/118130/9781839765179Find Tracy's book Abolish Rent here: https://bookshop.org/a/118130/9798888902523Find Jules' latest book, A Short History of Trans Misogyny, here: https://bookshop.org/a/118130/9781804291603Outro by Time Wharp: https://timewharp.bandcamp.com/track/tezeta