The Conversation Art Podcast
The Conversation Art Podcast
Michael Shaw
A podcast featuring both one-on-one and three-way roundtable conversations with contemporary artists, dealers, curators, and collectors--based in Los Angeles, but reaching nationally and internationally.
Epis.307: a Spanish painter (Antonio Murado) goes to New York City-
Antonio Murado, a New York City-based painter from Spain, talks about: the commissions that he’s done- how he's gotten them and how competing for one is like an actor casting for a role; how the sales of his work rise and fall, not only by year but by month, leading to no stability; and his time in the studio (around 65-70 hours/week)- how he spends his days there, and how he takes an old-school craftsmanship approach, from sizing canvas with rabbit-skin glue to building his own stretchers.
Nov 26
58 min
Episode 306: Collector disconnect, enjoying without owning, and
In the final episode with Bound by Creativity author Hannah Wohl, we talk about: her experiences with mega-collector couple Sherry and Joel Mallin, including a purchase the Mallins made that entailed their flying from New York to London just so they could see a work in person before committing to the purchase; and in comparing contemporary art with the arts at large she describes the ‘radical uncertainty’ that goes along with it, how the artists and the art world make decisions within this uncertainty.
Nov 13
51 min
The challenge of describing contemporary art (even for a writer):
Hannah Wohl (author of Bound by Creativity) talks about: the cynicism of sociologists, particularly when theorizing about art (and in relation to the sculptor St. Clair Cemin in particular); the emergence of the artist Ginny Casey; her appreciation of Wong Ping’s show at the New Museum; the challenges of talking, and writing about art; and she begins recounting her experience ‘playing’ a gallery assistant at an art fair (as an unpaid volunteer) for the purpose of her sociological research).
Oct 30
57 min
Epis.304: Virtual Cafe w/special guest Rose Bricetti
In The Conversation’s latest Virtual Café, special guest Rose Bricetti talks about: how memes break down institutional critique; the Instagram account Jerry Gogosian, which was revealed to be run by Hilde (former guest of the podcast); how the image and meaning of Pepe the frog has changed over time, depending on how it's used and covered in the media; Rose’s art-making, which has been influenced by memes and her prior work as a museum designer; and her consumption of Tik Tok vs. Instagram.
Oct 16
1 hr 17 min
Epis.303: Status Signals, and risking a Lower Status
Sociologist Hannah Wohl (author of Bound by Creativity) talks about: Competing claims to expertise between artists and gallerists; the fiduciary responsibilities art advisors take on, which involves a very pointed analysis of artists’ pedigrees when choosing work for their clients; and Antonio Murado, a painter who has produced highly-paid commissions for corporate banks, and in the process grappled with issues around selling out and compromising his work.
Oct 2
51 min
Epis 302: Hannah Wohl, part 3-
In digging into Hannah’s book, ‘Bound by Creativity,’ we talk about: the continued existence of the artist as bohemian (even as ‘enfant terrible’), as personified a pseudonymous artist whose gallerist and collectors affectionately boast about how crazy he is, and yet who occasionally goes to far; the collector-artist dynamic in studio visits, where a power imbalance is the norm, and collectors are often hesitant to buy work by an artist who they haven’t already invested in...and much more.
Sep 18
51 min
Epis. 301- Bound by Creativity, pt 2 with Hannah Wohl
In part 2 we continue our conversation by talking about whether the terms ‘Creative Vision,’ or ‘Signature Style,’ are euphemisms for ‘brand’; the relative importance of the art world, in that it moves the conversation(s) forward, even as a collector-supported system; how cultural consumption tends to reinforce the status of the elites, rather than undercut it;  and the main difference is between trust-fund baby collectors and trust-fund artists
Sep 4
43 min
Episode 300- Hannah Wohl on her book Bound by Creativity: part 1
In the first part of a multi-part series, Hannah Wohl, sociologist and author of Bound by Creativity talks about: how she earned entry into some of the inner sanctums of the art world, starting with artists but then eventually through the support and generosity of one legendary gallerist; the process of artists developing a signature style for which they become known; and the challenges for artists with a recognizable ‘creative vision’ who try to transition into another style and/or medium.
Aug 21
42 min
Epis. 299- NYC artist and writer Melissa Stern:
Living in a large Chelsea co-op apartment where also has her studio, in a building she calls ‘a community in a box’; her joining an all-women-artist text group during the pandemic, which has been a great source of support and community; and going down a dark rabbit hole with a couple of bogus dealers – one of whom was a meth-head – and how that led to, among other things, a great experience among a wide assortment of New Yorkers at Small Claims Court (it also led to a great article on Hyperallergic)
Aug 7
59 min
Best-Of episode with Ben Davis (ArtNet News and
Ben Davis, National Critic for ArtNet News and author of 9.5 Theses on Art and Class, talks about: how some of the most interesting art – art that's 'underground and weird' - is being made outside of the art world bubble, among them Fee Plumley; a specific chapter of his book which was originally written as a pamphlet and intervention of an art show in NY on art and class – including trickle-down theories of both economics and art; and art education, including for Ben a moving article.
Jul 24
1 hr 52 min
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