On this episode of The CIRS Group podcast, hosts Jacie and Barbara interview Dr. Andrew Heyman about Dr. Naviaux’s cell danger response (CDR) framework and why it can explain stalled recoveries in chronic mold-related illness and CIRS. Heyman describes how mitochondrial “danger mode” drives three phases: initial inflammation (innate immune activation), rebuilding via aerobic glycolysis, and reintegration requiring “all clear” signals like VIP, which positions CIRS as a subset of CDR. He emphasizes total toxic load (mold/biotoxins plus chemicals, metals, infections, gut-derived endotoxins, physical trauma, and emotional trauma), and discusses the neuroendocrine-immune axis (VIP, MSH, PACAP) and autonomic/vagal tone as key to recovery. He outlines his BeyondMold.com five-phase clinical program: environment/binders and chemical detox support, pathogen work, gut optimization, metabolic/hormone rebuilding with nervous system support, and a final readiness-to-heal/phenotyping phase using targeted safety signals (including VIP forms). TIMESTAMPS00:00 Intro to Dr. Andrew Heyman02:38 What Is Cell Danger Response?06:38 CIRS in the context of Cell Danger Response: changing gene expression12:18 The role of total toxic load and co-infections16:52 How the nervous system is affected by Cell Danger Response22:27 Why having a solid practitioner in your corner is so important23:56 The limitations of CIRS diagnostic testing28:47 Beyond Mold framework for healing in five phases37:18 Are you ready to heal?46:16 Advice for stalled patients51:14 How to work with Dr. Heyman and Beyond Mold For more information and support, join us at https://thecirsgroup.com WORK WITH DR. HEYMAN: https://beyondmold.com/Dr. Heyman Q&A mentioned in the outro: https://www.youtube.com/live/EWoki09eHhk Order Jacie's book! The 30 Day Carnivore Bootcamp: https://a.co/d/7MgHrRs The CIRS Group:Support Community: https://thecirsgroup.comInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/thecirsgroup/ Find Jacie for carnivore, lifestyle and limbic resources:Jacie’s book on the Carnivore diet!  https://a.co/d/8ZKCqz0Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ladycarnivoryYouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@LadyCarnivoryBlog: https://www.ladycarnivory.com/ Find Barbara for business/finance tips and coaching:Website: https://www.actlikebarbara.com/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/actlikebarbara/YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@actlikebarbara Jacie is a Shoemaker certified Proficiency Partner, NASM certified nutrition coach, author, and carnivore recipe developer determined to share the life changing information of carnivore and CIRS to anyone who will listen. Barbara is a business and fitness coach, CIRS and ADHD advocate, writer, speaker, and a big fan of health and freedom. Together, they co-founded The CIRS Group, an online support community to help people that are struggling with their CIRS diagnosis and treatment.

Barbara and Jacie wrap up their five-part Shoemaker Protocol series with Phase 5: Repair and Restore. This phase focuses on normalizing innate immune markers (MMP-9, C3a, C4a, and TGFb1) and restoring brain volume. They explain that low-starch/gluten-free diet helps bring down MMP-9, while persistently elevated C3a/C4a or TGFb1 often signal ongoing exposure, gut issues, tick-borne illness, or dental cavitations. The episode culminates with VIP (vasoactive intestinal peptide) nasal spray (the most anticipated step of the entire protocol!) which supports anti-inflammatory pathways, neurological function, and brain volume restoration over 6–12 months. For more information and support, join us at https://thecirsgroup.com TIMESTAMPS00:00 Introduction: Phase Five01:24 Medical Disclaimer01:55 Innate Immune Markers and VIP Nasal Spray02:50 Understanding MMP-905:14 C3a and C4a Markers07:20 TGFb108:18 VIP Spray Treatment10:34 Closing Thoughts For more information and support, join us at https://thecirsgroup.com Order Jacie's book! The 30 Day Carnivore Bootcamp: https://a.co/d/7MgHrRs The CIRS Group:Support Community: https://thecirsgroup.comInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/thecirsgroup/ Find Jacie for carnivore, lifestyle and limbic resources:Jacie’s book on the Carnivore diet!  https://a.co/d/8ZKCqz0Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ladycarnivoryYouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@LadyCarnivoryBlog: https://www.ladycarnivory.com/ Find Barbara for business/finance tips and coaching:Website: https://www.actlikebarbara.com/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/actlikebarbara/YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@actlikebarbara Jacie is a Shoemaker certified Proficiency Partner, NASM certified nutrition coach, author, and carnivore recipe developer determined to share the life changing information of carnivore and CIRS to anyone who will listen. Barbara is a business and fitness coach, CIRS and ADHD advocate, writer, speaker, and a big fan of health and freedom. Together, they co-founded The CIRS Group, an online support community to help people that are struggling with their CIRS diagnosis and treatment.

In this CIRS Group Podcast episode, Jacie and Barbara cover phase four of the Shoemaker Protocol, focused on restoring normal metabolic function after biotoxin elimination. They explain that this phase may include supporting detox pathways for “normal” toxins and heavy metals (e.g., daily bowel movements, B vitamins, methylation support, sauna or hot baths, lymphatic techniques, and using binders like charcoal or clay for inorganic toxins), addressing androgen/sex hormone imbalance linked to low MSH (including signs of low testosterone or estrogen dominance, supplementing DHEA), and correcting fluid/electrolyte balance via ADH regulation (symptoms like thirst, frequent urination, nocturia, and static shocks). They discuss electrolyte options, a DIY recipe, and provider-monitored desmopressin if needed, and note this phase can also involve investigating other lingering issues or co-infections before moving to phase five. For more information and support, join us at https://thecirsgroup.com TIMESTAMPS00:00 Welcome to Phase Four01:00 The purpose of repairing damage done by CIRS03:14 Detox Pathways basics05:33 Binders for heavy metals07:05 Androgen & hormone balance09:40 Fluid and Electrolyte Issues: ADH/Osmolality12:21 Electrolyte options14:12 Desmopressin reset explained15:41 Tidying up and co-infections17:22 Next Phase and wrap up For more information and support, join us at https://thecirsgroup.com LINKS MENTIONED IN THE EPISODE:Electrolyte caps Barbara uses: https://redmond.life/products/re-lyte-hydration-support-plus-capsLMNT Recipe (check FAQ): https://drinklmnt.com/pages/ingredients Order Jacie's book! The 30 Day Carnivore Bootcamp: https://a.co/d/7MgHrRs The CIRS Group:Support Community: https://thecirsgroup.comInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/thecirsgroup/ Find Jacie for carnivore, lifestyle and limbic resources:Jacie’s book on the Carnivore diet!  https://a.co/d/8ZKCqz0Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ladycarnivoryYouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@LadyCarnivoryBlog: https://www.ladycarnivory.com/ Find Barbara for business/finance tips and coaching:Website: https://www.actlikebarbara.com/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/actlikebarbara/YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@actlikebarbara Jacie is a Shoemaker certified Proficiency Partner, NASM certified nutrition coach, author, and carnivore recipe developer determined to share the life changing information of carnivore and CIRS to anyone who will listen. Barbara is a business and fitness coach, CIRS and ADHD advocate, writer, speaker, and a big fan of health and freedom. Together, they co-founded The CIRS Group, an online support community to help people that are struggling with their CIRS diagnosis and treatment.

Struggling with stubborn biotoxin illness (CIRS) and feeling stuck in your recovery? In this episode, we break down some of the most important (and often overlooked) steps in the Shoemaker Protocol, including binders, MARCoNS treatment, and gut support. Learn how binders like cholestyramine and Welchol work differently to remove biotoxins, why the wrong detox approach can trigger setbacks, and how to track your progress with tools like the Visual Contrast Sensitivity (VCS) test. We also dive into MARCoNS: why it's so common in CIRS patients, how it impacts MSH and overall health, and the treatment options available, from prescription nasal sprays to over-the-counter approaches. Plus, we discuss biofilms, reinfection risks, pet testing, and practical strategies for breaking the cycle. Whether you're just getting started or looking to optimize your treatment plan, this episode will help you better understand the next critical steps in recovering from CIRS and mold-related illness. None of this is medical advice: always consult your CIRS practitioner for what treatment is right for you. For more information and support, join us at https://thecirsgroup.com TIMESTAMPS00:00 - Introduction & Recap02:54 - Why phase three is the most anticipated part of recovery03:26 - The most effective binders for detoxification: Cholestyramine and Welchol06:00 - Over-the-counter binder options: Mycobind and Chitosan07:05 - The importance of using the correctly charged binders09:21 - Visual Contrast Sensitivity test: tracking biotoxin effects13:00 - Treating MARCoNs: nasal testing, nasal sprays, and herbal options14:15 - Cycle of MARCoNs and MSH depletion16:19 - Nasal testing resources and nasal spray treatments (EDTA, BEG spray, X Lear)17:35 - Testing the nasal biome with Sinus Key19:14 - Impact of diet, microbiome, and specific food sensitivities on gut healing25:14 - Supporting detox through bowel movements with magnesium26:26 - The importance of sequencing treatment steps for optimum results27:23 - Encouragement to stay on track, subscribe, and support the channel For more information and support, join us at https://thecirsgroup.com LINKS MENTIONED IN THE EPISODE:Our Binders episode: https://youtu.be/KAQfLXuPjFI?si=TcJo-YDEjVLNInqWVisual Contrast Sensitivity (VCS) test options:https://www.vcstest.com/https://www.survivingmold.com/store/online-vcs-screeninghttps://beyondmold.com/product/visual-contrast-sensitivity-test/MARCoNs test: https://www.microbiologydx.com/order-collection-kitsSinusKey test: https://patients.microgendx.com/products/sinuskeyActinos episode where we reference the SinusKey: https://youtu.be/2rCXhUP6dbY?si=MBT7_esd0edmfhCXDr. Christian Navarro Torres' website to book a consult: https://www.cirslab.com/Dr. Andrea Jordheim's website to work with her: https://mytransformationwellness.com/Our interview with Dr. Lacey Venanzi: https://youtu.be/baldT8N7nl4?si=wExZGivhkEALSR4OOur second interview with Dr. Lacey: https://youtu.be/7H6CKEhIMSU?si=WrMPttnfyRq2aMvCDr. Lacey's website to work with her: https://www.drlacey.org/ Order Jacie's book! The 30 Day Carnivore Bootcamp: https://a.co/d/7MgHrRs The CIRS Group:Support Community: https://thecirsgroup.comInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/thecirsgroup/ Find Jacie for carnivore, lifestyle and limbic resources:Jacie’s book on the Carnivore diet!  https://a.co/d/8ZKCqz0Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ladycarnivoryYouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@LadyCarnivoryBlog: https://www.ladycarnivory.com/ Find Barbara for business/finance tips and coaching:Website: https://www.actlikebarbara.com/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/actlikebarbara/YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@actlikebarbara Jacie is a Shoemaker certified Proficiency Partner, NASM certified nutrition coach, author, and carnivore recipe developer determined to share the life changing information of carnivore and CIRS to anyone who will listen. Barbara is a business and fitness coach, CIRS and ADHD advocate, wr

For more information and support, join us at https://thecirsgroup.com Is mold colonization the same as CIRS? Could what looks like a fungal infection actually be something else entirely? In this episode, Barbara is joined by Dr. Lacey Venanzi and Dr. Christian Navarro-Torres to break down the difference between mold/fungal colonization and chronic inflammatory response syndrome (CIRS), explore the surprisingly important role of actinobacteria, and walk through practical, affordable treatment strategies: from pharmaceutical antifungals to botanicals and nasal rinsing. For more information and support, join us at https://thecirsgroup.com TIMESTAMPS00:00 Intro01:19 Meet the guests: Dr. Lacey Venanzi & Dr. Christian Navarro-Torres02:25 What is mold or fungal colonization?05:01 Is fungal overgrowth a root cause or a downstream effect?06:08 CIRS vs. fungal colonization: Two distinct diagnoses07:45 Symptoms of fungal colonization (skin, gut, sinuses, cravings)10:56 Pharmaceutical antifungals and herbal antifungals15:30 Risks of using antifungals in CIRS patients17:25 Why some patients improve on antifungals19:55 Why timing matters: get out of exposure first22:25 Actinobacteria: the overlooked player in CIRS24:19 How actinobacteria mimics fungal infections26:32 Testing: options, limitations & what to look for28:15 Key botanical treatments: Horopito, thyme, clove, eucalyptus & tea tree29:00 Affordable testing options for patients32:20 Safe steps patients can take (Horopito)32:49 Dilute the bacteria, lower the burden: cleaning and motility33:56 Probiotics & prebiotics for fungal/actino burden35:36 Topical treatment: Horopito Lotion37:05 Nasal treatment: saline & baby shampoo technique39:00 Barbara's saline rinse tips & real-world experience44:03 Why baby shampoo works (surfactants explained)45:11 Horopito cream for nasal & skin use47:10 Coherence DX and additional resources Check out Dr. Lacey and Dr. Christian's new company Coherence DX! https://www.coherencedx.com/YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@CoherenceDXDr. Lacey's website: https://www.drlacey.org/Dr. Christian's website: https://www.cirslab.com/ LINKS MENTIONED IN THE EPISODE:Our Actinos Episode: https://youtu.be/yf9EoTbyAEo?si=nZIZAAlPlBgnObfIOur Actinos Cleaning episode: https://youtu.be/2rCXhUP6dbY?si=TRx356TkQBm1BBJnOur first interview with Dr. Lacey: https://youtu.be/baldT8N7nl4?si=8tHFQCKqrLxiFESqOur latest interview with Dr. Christian: https://youtu.be/Lc_LfUeiYTM?si=6CFLE6w71gtSqStjCSA (comprehensive stool analysis) from ParasiteTesting.com: https://www.parasitetesting.com/CSA?srsltid=AfmBOor_itSEGDFWmeorkB2spnrFXO48-f07lwE7G8V8Hc9NxB4Y92AJCheap gut test: https://www.ombrelab.com/products/ombre-gut-health-test?selling_plan=2189295771More comprehensive gut test: https://www.tinyhealth.com/adult-testSinusKey nose test: https://patients.microgendx.com/products/sinuskeyHoropito capsules:https://kolorex.com/collections/gut-care/products/candia-balance-gut-care-60Dr. Lacey's favorite probiotics:BioGaia: https://a.co/d/0cQZgJhwFlorastor: https://a.co/d/09oFxiLsSun Fiber: https://a.co/d/0hkdbUZhHoropito topical cream (the gentlest option): https://kolorex.com/products/vaginal-care-creamNeti Pot Barbara uses: https://a.co/d/08DKajTTNasal swabs Barbara uses: https://a.co/d/0fgglU5fFragrance free Baby Shampoo: https://www.target.com/p/johnson-39-s-sensitive-care-baby-2-in-1-body-wash-38-shampoo-lightly-scented-13-5-fl-oz/-/A-87442350#lnk=sametab Order Jacie's book! The 30 Day Carnivore Bootcamp: https://a.co/d/7MgHrRs The CIRS Group:Support Community: https://thecirsgroup.comInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/thecirsgroup/ Find Jacie for carnivore, lifestyle and limbic resources:Jacie’s book on the Carnivore diet!  https://a.co/d/8ZKCqz0Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ladycarnivoryYouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@LadyCarnivoryBlog: https://www.ladycarnivory.com/ Find Barbara for business/finance tips and coaching:Website: http

For more information and support, join us at https://thecirsgroup.com Jacie and Barbara cover Phase Two (part two of five) of the Shoemaker Protocol for CIRS, focusing on foundational steps before starting binders:  Lipid replacement therapy (primarily fish oil) to lower inflammation and help prevent common binder side effects like fatigue, constipation, and overall dryness, with Shoemaker-recommended omega-3 dosing (EPA 2,400 mg and DHA 1,800 mg daily) and cautions about blood-thinning;  Limbic retraining to address errant threat signals from chronic illness, with nuance that intensive programs can be too difficult early on and may work better once out of exposure and/or on binders, while also warning against symptom suppression without addressing root causes;  And the critical priority of getting out of exposure through testing (dust tests for mold, endotoxins, and actinos), remediation or moving, and exploring hidden, internal exposures that can cause plateaus or backslides in your health. Be sure to subscribe so you don't miss the next episode, all about Phase Three, removing the toxic burden! For more information and support, join us at https://thecirsgroup.com TIMESTAMPS00:00 Phase Two of the Shoemaker Protocol01:25 Why this foundational phase matters02:54 What is Lipid Replacement? and why is it important?06:17 Fish Oil / lipid dosing tips08:04 Limbic Retraining explained10:51 When Limbic Retraining backfires14:23 Hyperreactivity Catch-2218:25 Get out of exposure20:42 Hidden exposures and healing stalls22:27 Key takeaways and next phase24:08 Wrap up and resources For more information and support, join us at https://thecirsgroup.com Check out these episodes mentioned in this episode:Interview with Michael Schrantz about remediation: https://youtu.be/_BEwFVdpRcY?si=mzNeGslwGjaYhWqiInterview with Bill Weber about testing your home: https://youtu.be/RlKjTqVAeNU?si=Eymfvcdk4G6kzylVInterview with Kendra Seymour on choosing a remediator or IEP: https://youtu.be/zmt9e42LLac?si=cTTvunobvEt8YL_nDust testing 101: https://youtu.be/nRrZs7xbXcc?si=55oXFRCV5kO_p0JDEndotoxin episode: https://youtu.be/O0iKndNzfYA?si=X-iX1NoRO2U7U-QVActinos episode part one: https://youtu.be/yf9EoTbyAEo?si=d2KUSzNpX2cs0DKEand Part two: https://youtu.be/2rCXhUP6dbY?si=wDHiSy58Vw5fZ5fa Order Jacie's book! The 30 Day Carnivore Bootcamp: https://a.co/d/7MgHrRs The CIRS Group:Support Community: https://thecirsgroup.comInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/thecirsgroup/ Find Jacie for carnivore, lifestyle and limbic resources:Jacie’s book on the Carnivore diet!  https://a.co/d/8ZKCqz0Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ladycarnivoryYouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@LadyCarnivoryBlog: https://www.ladycarnivory.com/ Find Barbara for business/finance tips and coaching:Website: https://www.actlikebarbara.com/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/actlikebarbara/YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@actlikebarbara Jacie is a Shoemaker certified Proficiency Partner, NASM certified nutrition coach, author, and carnivore recipe developer determined to share the life changing information of carnivore and CIRS to anyone who will listen. Barbara is a business and fitness coach, CIRS and ADHD advocate, writer, speaker, and a big fan of health and freedom. Together, they co-founded The CIRS Group, an online support community to help people that are struggling with their CIRS diagnosis and treatment.

For more information and support, join us at https://thecirsgroup.com Uncover the truth behind chronic illnesses that are often misdiagnosed for years. If you’ve been told your symptoms are anxiety, IBS, or autoimmune, this episode explores a groundbreaking approach that could change everything. Learn how the Shoemaker Protocol, backed by clinical research, helps identify and treat CIRS (Chronic Inflammatory Response Syndrome) caused by biotoxin exposure like mold. In this episode, Barbara and Jacie walk through the first phase of the Shoemaker Protocol: determining whether CIRS is the root cause of your symptoms. You’ll learn how to recognize key symptom patterns, use the validated VCS (Visual Contrast Sensitivity) test, and identify common exposure sources such as water-damaged buildings and tick bites. What you’ll learn:• The 35 symptom clusters linked to CIRS and how to assess your own• How the VCS test can be an early screening tool• Common exposure triggers that are often overlooked• The role of genetics and why pattern recognition matters• The first steps to begin a clinically validated path to recovery CIRS can create widespread disruption in the body, from immune dysfunction to neurological symptoms, and is frequently mistaken for other conditions. This episode helps you connect the dots so you can move toward targeted, effective healing. Whether you’re just starting your health journey or searching for answers after years of confusion, this is part one of a five-part series designed to bring clarity, direction, and hope. Explore more resources and support at https://thecirsgroup.com TIMESTAMPS00:00 - Intro: an answer for healing01:35 - Why we're covering the five phases of the Shoemaker Protocol02:53 - What is CIRS?04:09 - Common misdiagnoses05:25 - Understanding CIRS Symptoms08:23 - Four Pillars of CIRS Diagnosis: First, Symptom Clusters09:00 - Second: Visual Contrast Sensitivity Test12:48 - Third: Exposure History and Its Importance16:25 - Fourth: Blood Work and Genetic Testing19:20 - What CIRS is Not20:30 - Next Steps for Diagnosis22:15 - Personal Experiences and Hope for Healing24:00 - Conclusion and Upcoming Episodes For more information and support, join us at https://thecirsgroup.com Order Jacie's book! The 30 Day Carnivore Bootcamp: https://a.co/d/7MgHrRs The CIRS Group:Support Community: https://thecirsgroup.comInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/thecirsgroup/ Find Jacie for carnivore, lifestyle and limbic resources:Jacie’s book on the Carnivore diet!  https://a.co/d/8ZKCqz0Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ladycarnivoryYouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@LadyCarnivoryBlog: https://www.ladycarnivory.com/ Find Barbara for business/finance tips and coaching:Website: https://www.actlikebarbara.com/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/actlikebarbara/YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@actlikebarbara Jacie is a Shoemaker certified Proficiency Partner, NASM certified nutrition coach, author, and carnivore recipe developer determined to share the life changing information of carnivore and CIRS to anyone who will listen. Barbara is a business and fitness coach, CIRS and ADHD advocate, writer, speaker, and a big fan of health and freedom. Together, they co-founded The CIRS Group, an online support community to help people that are struggling with their CIRS diagnosis and treatment.

For more information and support, join us at https://thecirsgroup.com Jacie and Barbara discuss chronic fatigue syndrome (ME/CFS), emphasizing it as a real, multisystem illness rather than “just being tired,” and describe hallmark symptoms like post-exertional malaise (PEM), unrefreshing sleep, brain fog/word-finding issues, orthostatic intolerance, sensory sensitivity, pain, headaches, and the push-crash cycle. They explain how ME/CFS is often hard to diagnose due to lack of a single definitive test, the use of exclusionary testing and symptom criteria, and how cardiopulmonary exercise testing can objectively demonstrate impaired recovery and reduced oxygen utilization, which is useful for disability or legal documentation. They argue the diagnosis is a label, not a root cause, and propose chronic inflammatory response syndrome (CIRS) from biotoxin exposure (often water-damaged buildings/mold) as a potential driver, citing Dr. Ming Dooley’s review comparing ME/CFS research to CIRS treatment outcomes. They outline next steps: assess exposure history and symptom patterns, take symptom clusters and the VCS test, find a CIRS-literate practitioner, address current environments before protocols, and explore resources and their community membership. For more information and support, join us at https://thecirsgroup.com TIMESTAMPS00:00 Intro to Chronic Fatigue / medical disclaimer02:30 Chronic Fatigue Syndrome is real, let's ask WHY04:26 What is ME/CFS?06:40 The CFS lived experience09:09 Getting a ME/CFS diagnosis11:05 Labels vs root cause12:08 What is actually happening when you have ME/CFS13:01 How CIRS may cause ME/CFS: published research backed15:29 Why doctors miss CIRS17:14 Next steps if you want to seek treatment20:10 Testing and find a practitioner that is Shoemaker Certified21:04 Resources For more information and support, join us at https://thecirsgroup.com LINKS MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE:Ming Dooley's published research connecting CFS and CIRS:https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/40806417/https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11623837/https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/41265402/VCS test and symptom questions for CIRS: https://www.survivingmold.com/store/online-vcs-screening Order Jacie's book! The 30 Day Carnivore Bootcamp: https://a.co/d/7MgHrRs The CIRS Group:Support Community: https://thecirsgroup.comInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/thecirsgroup/ Find Jacie for carnivore, lifestyle and limbic resources:Jacie’s book on the Carnivore diet!  https://a.co/d/8ZKCqz0Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ladycarnivoryYouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@LadyCarnivoryBlog: https://www.ladycarnivory.com/ Find Barbara for business/finance tips and coaching:Website: https://www.actlikebarbara.com/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/actlikebarbara/YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@actlikebarbara Jacie is a Shoemaker certified Proficiency Partner, NASM certified nutrition coach, author, and carnivore recipe developer determined to share the life changing information of carnivore and CIRS to anyone who will listen. Barbara is a business and fitness coach, CIRS and ADHD advocate, writer, speaker, and a big fan of health and freedom. Together, they co-founded The CIRS Group, an online support community to help people that are struggling with their CIRS diagnosis and treatment.

For more information and support, join us at https://thecirsgroup.com In this episode, Barbara and Jacie discuss how CIRS patients can tell when they’re ready to move to the next step of the Shoemaker Protocol or “graduate,." As always, healing is gradual and should be guided by a CIRS-literate practitioner. They recommend tracking symptoms over time and checking three key questions: whether symptoms are improving, whether labs support improvement, and whether ongoing exposure is still occurring. The Shoemaker Protocol can be divided into three phases: (1) getting out of exposure by identifying and removing biotoxins, (2) clearing biotoxins with binders like cholestyramine (often causing temporary fatigue/constipation) and treating MARCoNS; and (3) repairing immune and hormonal dysfunction with supportive therapies, diet, and lifestyle supports. They also cover what “graduation” means, and common side quests if stalled, including Lyme, gut issues, dental problems, microbiome disruptions, spike protein, and autoimmune-related damage. For more information and support, join us at https://thecirsgroup.com Timestamps00:00 Intro and disclaimer01:18 The benefits of symptom tracking03:16 The Shoemaker Protocol in three phases04:15 Phase One: get out of exposure06:13 When you can graduate to phase two09:02 Phase Two: clear the biotoxins (take binders)11:12 MARCoNs treatment12:20 Phase Three: repair and regulate15:03 Fix your brain with VIP Spray18:51 What "graduation" actually means: Life after CIRS20:19 When you stall, check for exposure21:36 Check for Co-infections, co-morbidities, other side quests25:26 Final takeaways For more information and support, join us at https://thecirsgroup.com LINKS MENTIONED IN THE EPISODE:Our Neuroquant episode: https://youtu.be/Lc_LfUeiYTM?si=DNbUj0nSdaXFGIqrOur interview with Jenny Johnson, about Life After CIRS: https://youtu.be/-c_bWUjP_uI?si=3hCbQ_CIkBbXvtTa Order Jacie's book! The 30 Day Carnivore Bootcamp: https://a.co/d/7MgHrRs The CIRS Group:Support Community: https://thecirsgroup.comInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/thecirsgroup/ Find Jacie for carnivore, lifestyle and limbic resources:Jacie’s book on the Carnivore diet!  https://a.co/d/8ZKCqz0Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ladycarnivoryYouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@LadyCarnivoryBlog: https://www.ladycarnivory.com/ Find Barbara for business/finance tips and coaching:Website: https://www.actlikebarbara.com/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/actlikebarbara/YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@actlikebarbara Jacie is a Shoemaker certified Proficiency Partner, NASM certified nutrition coach, author, and carnivore recipe developer determined to share the life changing information of carnivore and CIRS to anyone who will listen. Barbara is a business and fitness coach, CIRS and ADHD advocate, writer, speaker, and a big fan of health and freedom. Together, they co-founded The CIRS Group, an online support community to help people that are struggling with their CIRS diagnosis and treatment.

For more information and support, join us at https://thecirsgroup.com In their 150th The CIRS Group podcast episode(!!), Jacie and Barbara share practical guidance for reducing actinos in the home, emphasizing that consistent removal matters because a CIRS patient can react whether actinos are dead or alive. This is NOT medical advice: Actinos guidance is leading-edge in the CIRS space, but they share what has worked for them and members of The CIRS Group.  For skin, they discuss Defense soap, lava soap, Selsun Blue, Lume acidifying wash, and Johnson’s Baby Shampoo (noting dryness/irritation tradeoffs), plus probiotic lotion for localized issues. For laundry, they recommend washing clothing after one wear, and frequently washing bedding, pillows, and towels. For the home, they advise using a sealed HEPA vacuum broadly (walls, furniture, mattress, woven items), dry and damp dusting (including walls with a wet Swiffer), and using masks. If you feel overwhelmed, try breaking cleaning into manageable chunks, and consider help from cleaners, friends, or family. For more information and support, join us at https://thecirsgroup.com TIMESTAMPS00:00 150th Episode Kickoff01:18 Intro and disclaimer02:25 Why aren't you in The CIRS Group?04:10 Why consistent cleaning is important05:18 Human derived actino tests and strategies06:57 Skin/hair washing options11:50 Laundry washing strategies15:42 Home cleaning strategy (small particle cleaning or SPC)16:49 Vacuuming and wet wiping / dry wiping21:36 Making it sustainable25:34 Wrap Up and Next Steps For more information and support, join us at https://thecirsgroup.com LINKS MENTIONED IN THE EPISODE:Book a consultation with Dr. Christian Navarro-Torres: https://consult-christian.as.me/schedule/a89e8b00/appointment/Book a consultation with Dr. Andrea Jordheim: https://mytransformationwellness.com/about/SinusKey test: https://patients.microgendx.com/products/sinuskeyBook a consultation with Dr. Lacey: https://www.drlacey.org/Skin Actino test: https://www.envirobiomics.com/product/actino-skin/?v=7516fd43adaaLarry Schwartz interview on Actinos: https://www.betterhealthguy.com/episode171Jenny’s actinos episode https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUIvXrWYZOQ&pp=ygUUamVubnkgam9obnNvbiBhY3Rpbm8%3DISEAI SPC protocol https://iseai.org/small-particle-cleaning-guide-for-people-with-mold-related-illness/ Order Jacie's book! The 30 Day Carnivore Bootcamp: https://a.co/d/7MgHrRs The CIRS Group:Support Community: https://thecirsgroup.comInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/thecirsgroup/ Find Jacie for carnivore, lifestyle and limbic resources:Jacie’s book on the Carnivore diet!  https://a.co/d/8ZKCqz0Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ladycarnivoryYouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@LadyCarnivoryBlog: https://www.ladycarnivory.com/ Find Barbara for business/finance tips and coaching:Website: https://www.actlikebarbara.com/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/actlikebarbara/YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@actlikebarbara Jacie is a Shoemaker certified Proficiency Partner, NASM certified nutrition coach, author, and carnivore recipe developer determined to share the life changing information of carnivore and CIRS to anyone who will listen. Barbara is a business and fitness coach, CIRS and ADHD advocate, writer, speaker, and a big fan of health and freedom. Together, they co-founded The CIRS Group, an online support community to help people that are struggling with their CIRS diagnosis and treatment.