Scouting The Refs Podcast #RefsPodcast
Scouting The Refs Podcast #RefsPodcast
Scouting the Refs
Scouting The Refs follows hockey officials across the NHL, AHL, ECHL, and other leagues around the world, including news, rule changes and interpretations, suspensions, and statistics on officials and penalty calls.  Todd Lewis is a veteran broadcaster covering the NHL and other major league sports; a former host on the NHL Network and on NHL Network Radio, he’s also worked for TSN and Sportsnet as a host/anchor. Josh Smith is the founder of Scouting the Refs, the leading independent resource related to hockey officiating. #RefsPodcast
The Stanley Cup Final Finale!
That's a rap on the 2025-26 NHL season, as the Carolina Hurricanes claimed the Stanley Cup in Game 6 over the Vegas Golden Knights. Wrapping up:Referee Golfin' Garrett Rank takes a tumbleCanes' Jason Blake gets called for tripping. A marginal tripping call? In the Stanley Cup Final?Tomas Hertl pushes the puck to win a draw. "You can't do that," says Rule 67 (and liney Trent Knorr, who saw it all happen)An AHL penalty shot call sends the announcer into a frenzy. Listen to him complain about it... and then undermine his argument!Congrats to the ECHL's Kelly Cup Champion Florida Everblades, who won - and got dumped.and what topics might be on tap at the upcoming NHL Board of Governors' meetings? Rule changes, perhaps?...---------------Visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠scoutingtherefs.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and follow @scoutingtherefs and @toddlewissports on Twitter/X, Instagram, BlueSky, and Threads. Email us your questions - ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠[email protected]⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Questions? Comments? Just looking to vent? Call the RefLine and leave us a message at 585-484-REFS! ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ #RefsPodcast⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
Jun 22
11 min
Stupidest Question I've Ever Heard
The NHL Stanley Cup Final is in full swing! This week:No call on Golden Knights' Eichel for dumping Canes' StaalVegas's Stone sticks Chatfield up high, prompting an official discussion and a video review. How did that work, exactly?Game 3 has two challenges against Vegas - one for offside against Howden, one for goaltender interference on BarbashevA Cup Final Penalty Shot courtesy Wes McCauley! Breaking down the call and the criteriaNot-quite-buzzer-beater by McNabbCarolina's Stankoven gets crosschecked by Dowd. It was a minor penalty - should it have been more?Puck over glass! Puck over glass! Puck over glass! When was the last time a team was whistled for three puck-over-glass penalties?!Breaking down the ref pairs and the stats in the Cup Final. Which pair favors one team over the other... and why?What do we need to do to get the NHL to hand out some hardware to the officials? A Golden Whistle would be nice, but we have some other trophy suggestions. ---------------Visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠scoutingtherefs.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and follow @scoutingtherefs and @toddlewissports on Twitter/X, Instagram, BlueSky, and Threads. Email us your questions - ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠[email protected]⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Questions? Comments? Just looking to vent? Call the RefLine and leave us a message at 585-484-REFS! ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ #RefsPodcast⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
Jun 12
16 min
Cup Final Coach's Challenge, Ref Cam Returns
We've made it through the NHL Conference Finals and Games 1 and 2 of the Stanley Cup Final with plenty to discuss on this week’s Refs Podcast:The NHL's Final Four refs and linespersonsGhislain Hebert gets a new gig up northThe ref cam is back!Referee Chris Rooney kicks off the Cup Final with some words of encouragementIcing, icing, baby... or is it? Breaking down a controversial icing call that led to a Carolina Hurricanes goal in Game 1.Why the whistle? Did the referee lose sight of the puck? Or was it goaltender interference? Logic says the latter as Vegas Golden Knights head coach John Tortorella challenged -- losing both the challenge and the game. What happened on that play?And, hang on, did we get an official post-game comment from the NHL Officiating team on that call!?---------------Visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠scoutingtherefs.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and follow @scoutingtherefs and @toddlewissports on Twitter/X, Instagram, BlueSky, and Threads. Email us your questions - ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠[email protected]⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Questions? Comments? Just looking to vent? Call the RefLine and leave us a message at 585-484-REFS! ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ #RefsPodcast⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
Jun 5
16 min
Three Stomps and You're Out!
We’ve got a jam-packed week of Stanley Cup action to run down on this week’s Refs Podcast:Canadiens’ Dobson delivers a high-stick from his kneesA clear spear from Montreal’s Texier on Canes’ Miller gets called a slash. What?Carolina’s Hall hits HutsonDorofeyev’s Golden Knights goal gets disallowed for being batted in with a glove… or was it deflected by a high stick above the crossbar? Or both?Canadiens’ Caufield goes offside… but the faceoff goes way backWas that a missed call for Too Many Men against Montreal in overtime?Vegas’ Hertl takes out the Canes’ Necas on what should’ve been a penaltyAt the Memorial Cup, Chicoutimi Sagueneens’ Jordan Tourigny gets ejected - and suspended - for stomping the skate of Kitchener’s Christian Humphreys.---------------Visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠scoutingtherefs.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and follow @scoutingtherefs and @toddlewissports on Twitter/X, Instagram, BlueSky, and Threads. Email us your questions - ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠[email protected]⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Questions? Comments? Just looking to vent? Call the RefLine and leave us a message at 585-484-REFS! ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ #RefsPodcast⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
May 30
17 min
A Double-Double and an Overhead Ref
On this week's playoff-penalty-filled episode: Six for McAvoy's lumberjack attackHabs' Xhekaj pays up for punchAvalanche's Manson puts his butt-end where it doesn't belong, gets a fine and a penalty -- but should've gotten moreSabres' Malenstyn steamrolls Habs' DobesA double-goal-review at Canadiens vs. Sabres that goes from no goal, to goal, and back to no goal...Golden Knights' McNabb plows Ducks' Poehling into the boards for the rare interference major penaltyMinnesota's McCarron bats it in. Nice try, Mike.Vegas goaltender Carter Hart throws off his helmet to get a stoppage after losing a skate blade. He gets the whistle -- and a penalty for delay of gameReferee Garrett Rank goes up top for a bird's-eye-view of the play. ---------------Visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠scoutingtherefs.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and follow @scoutingtherefs and @toddlewissports on Twitter/X, Instagram, BlueSky, and Threads. Email us your questions - ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠[email protected]⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Questions? Comments? Just looking to vent? Call the RefLine and leave us a message at 585-484-REFS! ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ #RefsPodcast⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
May 16
17 min
Oh, You're an ANGRY Coach!
On this week's playoff-penalty-filled episode: Senators' Grieg gets twoMontreal's Matheson misses the puckHabs’ Demidov may not be to blame for his goaltender interference penaltyBruins’ McAvoy is ready for baseball season… and a suspensionFlyers’ Foerster lowers the hatchetCarolina’s Martinook’s self-inflicted high stickWhy the officials made the right non-call on an icing play that led to the Vegas Golden Knights’ game-winner against the Anaheim DucksYour playoff reminder that officiating ain’t easy, with one liney dumped into the bench and another taking a punch Avs’ Burns with a distinct kicking motion right into Kiriil Kaprizov’s crotchPhilly’s Drysdale interferes on Staal... or is that the other way around?Canes’ Brind’amour gets fired up - and penalized - on the benchFlyers’ Sanheim boarded by Hurricanes’ Hall: did the refs get it right? ---------------Visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠scoutingtherefs.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and follow @scoutingtherefs and @toddlewissports on Twitter/X, Instagram, BlueSky, and Threads. Email us your questions - ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠[email protected]⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Questions? Comments? Just looking to vent? Call the RefLine and leave us a message at 585-484-REFS! ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ #RefsPodcast⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
May 8
23 min
Review Everything!
This week: Third jersey rules... and superstitionsSens' Greig goes for the sucker-punchPens' Rust hair-pulling Flyers' MartoneOver the line... or not? Plenty of controversy at Oilers vs. Ducks on a goal-line play with the puck partially obscured by a skateVegas scores twice in OT after their first game-winner came back for an offsideBruins' Zadorov get fined for a cross-check during a stoppage... he should've gotten moreStars' Benn lowers the lumber on Wild's Ryan Hartman, picking up his fourth fine or suspension in the last five postseasons. He also deserved more for this one.Ducks' Kreider gets away with boardingHabs' Hutson causes a high stick on himself from Tampa's PointPens' Lizotte goes spearfishingOilers' Hyman with the most distinct kicking motion we've seen all yearCarolina's Rod Brind'amour offers his thoughts on how the league can improve officiating and cut down on diving and embellishment.---------------Visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠scoutingtherefs.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and follow @scoutingtherefs and @toddlewissports on Twitter/X, Instagram, BlueSky, and Threads. Email us your questions - ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠[email protected]⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Questions? Comments? Just looking to vent? Call the RefLine and leave us a message at 585-484-REFS! ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ #RefsPodcast⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
May 1
25 min
Uniting Fans through 'Ref You Suck'
This week:A goal line stop - or was it - at Canes vs. Senators Game 1Habs’ Anderson takes out Bolts’ D’Astous and sees his penalty reduced from a major to a minor… and then has his goal wiped out on a stick that was too damn highTampa’s Hagel hits Montreal’s Guhle, resulting in a high stick on Brayden Point. That doesn’t seem fair… Goaltender interference at Kings vs. AvalancheMammoth’s Durzi is out there doing head buttsStrange one at Senators vs. Hurricanes where a penalty shot is awarded for a hook that never happened after a goal is disallowed for an offside zone entry. Did you get all that? Down goes Crosby! A career first for Sid the former Kid, picking up an embellishment penalty prior to a faceoff against the Flyers’ Garnet HathawayMore chaos at Flyers vs. Pens as Rust and Konecny go at it with unpenalized elbows - and maybe a kick - as the refs break out the riot padsStars’ Benn goes high on an unsuspecting Boldy, picking the head… another accidentally on purpose play from the Dallas captain?Carolina’s Hall takes out Ottawa’s Jake Sanderson with an illegal check to the head.---------------Visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠scoutingtherefs.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and follow @scoutingtherefs and @toddlewissports on Twitter/X, Instagram, BlueSky, and Threads. Email us your questions - ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠[email protected]⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Questions? Comments? Just looking to vent? Call the RefLine and leave us a message at 585-484-REFS! ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ #RefsPodcast⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
Apr 24
24 min
The NHL Rulebook is Wrong, 38 Special was Right
This week:23,596 penalty minutes... how do you measure a year?Liney Steve Barton hangs 'em upNHL Stanley Cup Playoff Officiating - how do they pick the officials and how does it work in the postseason?A high-sticking penalty review turns into a non-call. It's the right interpretation under the rule book... so is the rule just WRONG?Stick fouls abound at Sabres vs. Stars as Radek Faska gets penalized for causing a self-inflicted high-stickJordan Greenway sends Ilya Lyubushkin's stick flyingAnother Colorado Avalanche offside controversy... and we're not sure we agree with the call on this one.---------------Visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠scoutingtherefs.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and follow @scoutingtherefs and @toddlewissports on Twitter/X, Instagram, BlueSky, and Threads. Email us your questions - ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠[email protected]⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Questions? Comments? Just looking to vent? Call the RefLine and leave us a message at 585-484-REFS! ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ #RefsPodcast⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
Apr 18
18 min
Diver Down!
This week:Ben Betker's NHL Refereeing DebutMcAvoy's flying stick gets two minutesHigh sticking fines for Luostarinen and StromeFlyers' Michkov fined for divingLearning what is - and is not - goaltender interference at Bruins vs. Canes, after a goal is allowed after contact in the crease and Bussi drops to sell an elbowMammoth's Weegar gets bailed out by the Utah video coachCalgary's Zary clearly has a 'distinct kicking motion' but the NHL allows this goal to standSharks' Askarov flips his net... but the goal still counts---------------Visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠scoutingtherefs.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and follow @scoutingtherefs and @toddlewissports on Twitter/X, Instagram, BlueSky, and Threads. Email us your questions - ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠[email protected]⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Questions? Comments? Just looking to vent? Call the RefLine and leave us a message at 585-484-REFS! ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ #RefsPodcast⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
Apr 13
17 min
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