<p>John Roderick talks with Dan Benjamin about making an album, managing fan and listener relationships, taking criticism, meeting journalists, UFOs, and things that are meant to be.</p>

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Episode 40: Fish Psychology

America's top two podcast personalities are finally coming together in one podcasting event that will change the way you think about podcasting forever! Like a rock skipping over the placid waters of an alpine lake, Dan and John are all too well aware that this burst of kinetic energy will ultimately deposit them, like all human effort, at rest in the icy depths where no light can penetrate. Until then, they mean to thrill to the chase! To soak up the remaining light and banish thoughts of tomorrow! EXCELSIOR! Please support this show on Patreon.