a special, bonus episode recorded at the Western Power Pool with celebrity guests Sarah Edmonds, Bob Rowe and Debra Smith Crystal Ball and Matthew Schroettnig host a conversation with Sarah Edmonds, Bob Rowe and Debra Smith about their “Theory of Change” for expanding high voltage, long distance transmission in the West.You can find the podcast on Apple Podcast, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Share with friends that are energy enthusiasts, like us!Western Transmission Expansion Coalition (WTEC) is a West-wide effort to develop an actionable transmission plan to support the needs of the future energy grid.The Western Transmission Consortium aims to support the development of transmission infrastructure in the West through a collaborative process involving infrastructure owners and investors.Public Power Underground, for electric utility enthusiasts! Public Power Underground, it’s work to watch!

A trip to the Skagit River Hydroelectric Project to talk about power system inertia with Seattle City Light operators, plus a discussion of popular fallacies and unpopular opinions with the hosts.To experience the visceral sounds and sights of big synchronous generation, an interview with Mike Haynes, Will Andersen, and Brandt March was recorded in-person at Seattle City Light’s Skagit River Hydroelectric Project. To start the episode Ahlmahz, Paul, Farhad, and Conleigh discuss popular fallacies of the energy system and share some of their own unpopular opinions.You can find the podcast on Apple Podcast, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Share with friends that are energy enthusiasts, like us!03:17 - Popular Fallacies & Unpopular Opions52:08 - Big Synchronous Generation - Seattle City Light’s Skagit River Hydroelectric ProjectPublic Power Underground, for electric utility enthusiasts! Public Power Underground, it’s work to watch!

Ben Serrurier returns to Public Power Underground to share some maybe-good-maybe-bad-but-definitely-not-thought-out ideas with Ahlmahz Negash, Paul Dockery, and Farhad Billimoria in a returning segment, Half-Baked Ideas. Then Irina Rasputnis, Madeline Kostic, and Eric Strandberg from the Seattle City Light’s Lighting Design Lab sit down to talk with Paul Dockery about innovation in building electrification. 13:19 - Half-Baked IdeasInspiration for the segment comes from the Bill Simmons PodcastBen’s prior appearances on the podcast52:51 - The Lighting Design Lab1:30:25 - Invitation to the Eleventy-First and Final episode of Public Power UndergroundPublic Power Underground, for electric utility enthusiasts! Public Power Underground, it’s work to watch!

A discussion about public goods and what classifying services as common pool resources, congestible public goods, or club goods means for grid planning and market design.Lynne Kiesling joins Ahlmahz Negash, Conleigh Byers, Farhad Billimoria, and Paul Dockery to discuss the classification system used in economics to distinguish public goods from private goods and what classifying some services as common pool resources means for grid planning and market design.Lynne Kiesling is an economist focusing on regulation, market design, and the economics of digitization and smart grid technologies in the electricity industry. She is Director of the Institute for Regulatory Law & Economics in the Center on Law, Business, and Economics, and is an Adjunct Professor in the Master of Science in Energy and Sustainability program, both at Northwestern University. She is also a Research Professor at University of Colorado Denver, a member of the External Faculty of the Santa Fe Institute, and a Nonresident Senior Fellow at the American Enterprise Institute.In addition to her academic research, she is currently a member of the U.S. Department of Energy’s Electricity Advisory Committee, has served as a member of the National Institute of Standards and Technology’s Smart Grid Advisory Committee, and is an emerita member of the GridWise Architecture Council. Her academic background includes a B.S. in Economics from Miami University (Ohio) and a Ph.D. in Economics from Northwestern University.You can find the podcast on Apple Podcast, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Share with friends that are energy enthusiasts, like us!05:07 - 30 seconds of theoryAhlmahz: Public GoodFarhad: Common Pool ResourceConleigh: Club goodLynne: The pacing problemAhlmahz: The collective action problemFarhad: The tragedy of the commonsConleigh: Induced demandLynne: The Knowledge Problem39:02 - What is and what is not a public good in the electric systemBillimoria, F., Mancarella, P. and Poudineh, R., 2022. Market and regulatory frameworks for operational security in decarbonizing electricity systems: from physics to economics. Oxford Open Energy, 1, p.oiac007.51:06 - Is transmission a Public Good?1:16:22 - Implications for planning and market design1:40:06 - National Treasure, Public Good, or Excludable - a Public Power Underground gamePublic Power Underground, for electric utility enthusiasts! Public Power Underground, it’s work to watch!

Ari Peskoe describes himself as an electric utility critic and has advice for electric utility enthusiasts.Ari Peskoe is the Director of the Electricity Law Initiative at the Harvard Law School Environmental and Energy Law Program and a prolific writer about regulation of the U.S. power sector on issues ranging from constitutional challenges to states’ energy laws to interstate transmission development. The interview is wrapped in commentary from co-hosts Paul Dockery, Ahlmahz Negash, and Farhad Billimoria.You can find the podcast on Apple Podcast, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Share with friends that are energy enthusiasts, like us!03:11 - 30 seconds of theoryFarhad on Cost of Service vs Incentive based regulationJoskow, P.L., 2024. The Expansion of Incentive (Performance-Based) Regulation of Electricity Distribution and Transmission in the United States. Review of Industrial Organization, pp.1-49.Ahlmahz on Procedural JusticeJenkins, K., McCauley, D., Heffron, R., Stephan, H. and Rehner, R., 2016. Energy justice: A conceptual review. Energy research & social science, 11, pp.174-182.11:01 - Ari Peskoe on Governance11/01/2023 - CleanLaw Podcast - Electricity Law InitiativeCleanLaw–Replacing the Utility Transmission Syndicate’s Control, Hannah Dobie interviews Ari Peskoe about his new article in Energy Law JournalPeskoe, A., 2023. Replacing the Utility Transmission Syndicate's Control. Energy LJ, 44, p.447.Market Configuration Matters; Effects of Market Choices on Consumers in the Northwest US51:10 - Ranking Governance, Configuration, and Market Design59:37 - Ari Peskoe’s Energy System Analogy1:04:48 - Debriefing on transmission, governance, and public power with Ahlmahz Negash and Farhad BillimoriaPublic Power Underground, for electric utility enthusiasts! Public Power Underground, it’s work to watch!

Rich Glick initiated the proceedings that led to Order 1920 as Chair of FERC, he returns to Public Power Underground with experts Prof. Jacob Mays and Pamela Quinlan to reflect on its adoption--------------------Paul Dockery and Crystal Ball bring their curiosity to an in-depth discussion of transmission planning, transmission investment, and transmission policy with Rich Glick, Pamela Quinlan, and Prof. Jacob Mays.You can find the podcast on Apple Podcast, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Share with friends that are energy enthusiasts, like us!08:48 - Rich, What were you hoping for?FERC 2022 - 2026 Strategic PlanJoint Federal-State Task Force on Electric Transmission32:33 - Pamela, Does this do what you wanted?Building for the Future Through Electric Regional Transmission Planning and Cost AllocationHigh-Level Summary of FERC Order No. 1920 on Transmission Planning and Cost Allocation published by Troutman Pepper (h/t Adrienne Thompson)“Plan for the future with the best available information, select the best plan for consumers and allocate costs according to benefits" - Rob Gramlich on Volts1:05:15 - Jacob, What is missing?Shu, H. and Mays, J., 2024. Transmission Benefits and Cost Allocation under Ambiguity. arXiv preprint arXiv:2403.14803.1:15:48 - Rich Glick’s Energy System Analogy: The energy transition is like the 1973 Mets.1:17:55 - Jacob Mays’s Energy System Analogy: The 2005 Royals, never say it can’t get worse.1:19:09 - Pamela Quinlan’s Energy System Analogy: The energy transition is like Game of Thrones.BONUS: Ke Xin (Sherry) Zuo, a PhD candidate at Cornell University in the Mays Group, provided her reflections onTaylor Swift’s newest album, The Tortured Poets Department, and its application to the Power System. My (Paul’s) favorite: the brilliant insight that “I Can Do It With a Broken Heart” is actually about how the power grid has to be resilient during forced outages and extreme weather events. About the guests:Rich Glick is a Principal with GQ New Energy Strategies – a consulting firm he co-founded with Pamela Quinlan. Rich is a former Chair of Federal Energy Regulatory Commission (FERC). As Chair, Rich initiated several reforms to more efficiently and cost effectively accommodate the evolution of the electric grid. Before being appointed to FERC, Rich was General Counsel for the Democrats on the Senate Energy and Natural Resources Committee. He has worked for Iberdrola, PPM Energy and PacifiCorp and is also known in the West for his current work with the Committee on Regional Electric Power Cooperation (CREPC) Western States Transmission Initiative (WSTI) and CREPC Transmission Collaborative (TC). Rich’s prior appearance on Public Power Underground can be found below.Pamela Quinlan co-founded GQ New Energy Strategies with Rich. She is an expert in energy market regulation and policy. She started at FERC as a Senior Energy Industry Analyst in the Office of Energy Market Regulation. In 2017 Quinlan went to work in then-commissioner Glick’s office as a Technical Advisor and was appointed Chief of Staff in January 2021. As Chief of Staff, she was responsible for developing and implementing the strategy behind the Commission’s policy initiatives. Before leaving FERC in 2023, Quinlan advised Chair Willie Phillips on Energy Markets and Resource Adequacy. She has also worked for Consolidated Edison (ConEd) and Standard and Poor’s.Prof. Jacob Mays is an Assistant Professor in the School of Civil and Environmental Engineering at Cornell University where his research focuses on the design and analysis of electricity markets. Jacob holds an AB in chemistry and physics from Harvard University, a MEng in energy systems from the University of Wisconsin-Madison, and a PhD in industrial engineering and management sciences from Northwestern University. His seminal work (Paul is editorializing by describing it as seminal) on the sequential pricing of electricity was the subject of a stand-alone episode on Season 5 of Public Power Underground, and his collaborations with Jesse Jenkins, Farhad Billimoria, and Rahmat Poudineh have informed our listeners perspectives on electric markets under deep decarbonization. Jacob’s prior appearances on Public Power Underground can be found below.Public Power Underground, for electric utility enthusiasts! Public Power Underground, it’s work to watch!

Conleigh, Farhad, Ahlmahz, and Paul debrief on coverage of FERC Order 1920 then discuss resource adequacy, hedging tail risk, and preview business capability models.Ahlmahz Negash, Conleigh Byers, and Farhad Billimoria scan news stories after FERC’s release of Order 1920, then Conleigh Byers explains Resource adequacy, and Farhad Billimoria explains Hedging & Tail Risk in Electricity Markets.You can find the podcast on Apple Podcast, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Share with friends that are energy enthusiasts, like us!03:17 - Short-to-Ground (FERC Order 1920 Edition)On May 13th the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission approved a sweeping long-term transmission planning and cost-allocation rule aimed at modernizing the gridIn the Special Transmission Reform Meeting, Chair Willie Phillips said the U.S. faces "an unprecedented surge in demand for affordable electricity while confronting extreme weather threats to the reliability of our grid and trying to stay one step ahead of the massive technological changes we are seeing in our society."FERC is helping to pave the way for a much-needed investment in our transmission infrastructureThe Federal Energy Regulatory Commission’s fact sheet for Order 1920 states that the grid rule contains five major elements:Requirement to conduct and periodically update long-term transmission planning to anticipate future needs.Requirement to consider a broad set of benefits when planning new facilities.Requirement to identify opportunities to modify in-kind replacement of existing transmission facilities to increase their transfer capability, known as “right-sizing.”Customers pay only for projects from which they benefit.Expands states’ pivotal role throughout the process of planning, selecting, and determining how to pay for transmission facilities.“Landmark transmission reform could dramatically speed US energy transition”Large Public Power Council’s president, John Di Stasio’s, written statementAmericans for a Clean Energy Grid’s Executive Director, Christina Hayes, applauded FERC for finalizing a, quote, “strong and comprehensive regional planning and cost allocation rule.”Spot market power in the U.S.Wholesale spot prices for the National Electricity Market (NEM)Energy Information Administration’s Natural Gas Weekly Update41:03 - Hedging and Tail Risk in Electricity Markets By: Farhad Billimoria , Jacob Mays , Rahmat PoudinehAbstract: A concern persistent in scarcity-based market designs for electricity over many years has been the illiquidity of markets for long-term contracts to hedge away volatile price exposures between generators and consumers. These missing markets have been attributed to a range of factors including retailer creditworthiness, market structure and the lack of demand side interest from consumers. Using a stochastic equilibrium model and insights from insurance theory, we demonstrate the inherent challenges of hedging a legacy thermal portfolio that is dominated by volatile fat-tailed commodities with significant tail dependence. Under such conditions the price required for generators to provide such hedges can be multiples of the expected value of prices. Our key insight is that when the real-world constraints of credit and financing are considered, the volatility of thermal fuels and their co-dependence under extremes may be a key reason as to why electricity markets have been incomplete in terms of long-term hedging contracts. Counterintuitively, in the context of the energy transition, our results show that, ceteris paribus, increasing the penetration of low carbon resources like wind, solar and energy storage, can add tail-diversity and improve contractability.22:16 - The Future of Resource Adequacy in a Decarbonized Grid w/ Conleigh ByersConleigh Byers Resource Adequacy Harvard Energy Policy Seminar 25 4.93MB ∙ PDF file DownloadDownload1:02:23 - Institutions in the electric sector are evolving like the eras of Taylor Swift, but are their business models evolving with them?Public Power Underground, for electric utility enthusiasts! Public Power Underground, it’s work to watch!

Apoorv Bhargava discusses his work at WeaveGrid optimizing electric vehicle charging within distribution systems. The interview is wrapped by context and insights from the regular hosts: Ahlmahz Negash, Conleigh Byers, Farhad Billimoria, and Paul Dockery.You can find the podcast on Apple Podcast, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Share with friends that are energy enthusiasts, like us!01:21 - 30 seconds of TheoryFarhad Billimoria on Distribution System Operators (DSOs)Conleigh Byers on Transactive EnergyAhlmahz Negash on the Energy Equity Gap10:28 - Apoorv Bhargava on WeaveGrid and the Grid53:38 - Apoorv Bhargava’s analogy; the electric grid is like a well stocked bar1:00:27 - Updating our PriorsFred Scweppe: Power systems `2000': hierarchical control strategiesPaul Joskow & Richard Schmalensee: Markets for Power1:20:24 - Community Planning as Energy PlanningWe Need to Make Cities Less Car-Dependent, Scientific American, 2024Car harm: A global review of automobility's harm to people and the environment, Journal of Transport Geography, 20241:28:20 - ESA World Cup StandingsPublic Power Underground, for electric utility enthusiasts! Public Power Underground, it’s work to watch!

Katherine Blunt joins Crystal Ball and Paul Dockery to discuss her reporting at the Wall Street Journal on the energy industry and her book, California Burning: The Fall of Pacific Gas and Electric--and What It Means for America's Power Grid.Matthew Schroettnig joins Conleigh Byers, Farhad Billimoria, and Paul Dockery for the rest of the episode to cover utility risks, load growth, and the current landscape of America’s power grid.You can find the podcast on Apple Podcast, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Share with friends that are energy enthusiasts, like us!03:13 - Short-to-Ground; a segment where we blow a fuse covering the newsEnvironmental Protection Agency (EPA) announced a suite of standards to cut greenhouse gas emissions as well as toxic air pollution, water pollution, and land contamination from fossil fuel plantsBureau of Land Management (BLM) updated regulations on Broadband Authorization, Cost Recovery, and Vegetation Management for Fire Risk ManagementLetter from twenty-six entities from across the West to the Southwest Power Pool expressing interest in continuing the development of Markets+Portland General Electric is seeking approval for a new, 7.4 mile, 115 KV transmission lineSpot market power in the U.S.Wholesale spot prices for the National Electricity Market (NEM)Energy Information Administration’s Natural Gas Weekly UpdateHedging and Tail Risk in Electricity Markets18:39 - Katherine Blunt joins Crystal Ball and Paul Dockery to discuss her reporting at the Wall Street Journal on the energy industry and her book, California Burning: The Fall of Pacific Gas and Electric--and What It Means for America's Power GridCalifornia Burning: The Fall of Pacific Gas and Electric--and What It Means for America's Power GridWildfires Make Utilities a Tricky Investment. Just Ask Warren Buffett.Big Tech’s Latest Obsession Is Finding Enough Energy49:13 - Katherine Blunt’s analogy; the grid is like a network of roads and highways51:08 - Updating our Priors1:07:20 - ESA (Energy System Analogies) World Cup Standings1:08:11 - Matt Schroettnig’s analogy; electricity is like water in a biomePublic Power Underground, for electric utility enthusiasts! Public Power Underground, it’s work to watch!

Dr. Kyri Baker, an assistant professor of engineering at the University of Colorado, makes a return visit to discuss the use of artificial intelligence for power grid optimization. Plus, Conleigh Byers, Farhad Billimoria, Ahlmahz Negash, and Paul Dockery wrap the interview with an explanation of AI and all its acronyms.You can find the podcast on Apple Podcast, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Share with friends that are energy enthusiasts, like us!01:19 - 30 second theoryFarhad Billimoria on “What is OPF?”Conleigh Byers on “What’s the difference between artificial intelligence (AI), machine learning (ML), Deep Learning, Physics Informed Neural Networks (PINN), Large Language Models (LLM), generative AI, and general intelligence?”14:28 - Dr. Kyri Baker: Using AI and Machine Learning for Power Grid OptimizationUsing AI and Machine Learning for Power Grid Optimization: How Neural Networks Can Speed Up Optimal Power FlowBaker, Kyri. "Emulating ac opf solvers with neural networks." IEEE Transactions on Power Systems 37.6 (2022): 4950-4953.Baker, Kyri, and Harsha Gangammanavar. "Locational Marginal Prices Obey DC Circuit Laws." arXiv preprint arXiv:2403.19032 (2024).1:06:14 - Updating our PriorsChatzivasileiadis, Spyros, et al. "Machine learning in power systems: Is it time to trust it?." IEEE Power and Energy Magazine 20.3 (2022): 32-41. APA1:23:26 - ESA (Energy System Analogies) World Cup StandingsPublic Power Underground, for electric utility enthusiasts! Public Power Underground, it’s work to watch!--------photo credit Carl Bower for The New York Times