Debora Cahn, the writer behind The Diplomat, Homeland, The West Wing, and Grey's Anatomy, joins Kate McCann and Sir Richard Dearlove to talk about writing political drama in an era when reality keeps outpacing fiction. Debora explains how "spy camp" research trips with real diplomats, spies, and generals shape her scripts, why she resists making her stories too close to current events, and what she learned about the strange double life of foreign service officers: the loneliness of constant relocation, the jockeying for a seat in the room, and the quiet patriotism that keeps them showing up. Sir Richard, a former head of MI6, adds his own view from the other side of the table, including a story about deliberately keeping a British ambassador out of the room in Washington. In this episode:Hosted by Sir Richard Dearlove (former MI6 Chief) and Kate McCann (Political Editor at Times Radio). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices