In this episode, Mike talks about what should be done before parting ways with your marketing agency. Whether checking your website or updating security permissions, it is vital to take care of these things beforehand to make the transition process as easy and seamless as possible.   Interested in learning more about Roofr? Get your first roof measurement report for free: https://shorturl.at/quCQ5   Contact us : [email protected] Let's Connect! ==== ==== ==== Website: https://bit.ly/3NQXXKK Facebook: https://bit.ly/3xH8VaT Linkedin: https://bit.ly/3RWTSyr   00;00;00;10 - 00;00;22;29 Michael Stearns So you're getting a divorce. You've decided that there's irreconcilable differences between yourself and your marketing agency. Now what? Well, there's a few things that you're going to want to do to ensure that it's an easy and seamless transition. First off, is understand what the process is going to look like for off boarding. Decide if you're going to decide to host your website with somebody else elsewhere. 00;00;23;01 - 00;00;47;18 Michael Stearns Have that conversation before you just need to pull the plug because you don't want downtime and you don't want it to be a process that drives you absolutely crazy. So first understand that. Second is make sure you understand where your previous marketing company has had access, and that can be Google Analytics, Google search console, your Google business profile, website access, etc.. 00;00;47;21 - 00;01;09;13 Michael Stearns But take inventory of everywhere where this this marketing agency has access to your assets, your properties, your business information, and make sure that you disavow that access once your contract is up and once you've decided to leave. It's not to say that that marketing agency is going to do anything, but if I look at it objectively, like, why risk it? 00;01;09;14 - 00;01;35;11 Michael Stearns There's no need for them if the relationship's over and they're no longer promoting your brand and your service and your business, there's absolutely no benefit to having access to your assets. And there could be some consequences down the road if you don't disavow that access. So make sure you take inventory of where they have access, devour their. Make sure you take inventory of where they have access and then disavow that access at those access points. 00;01;35;11 - 00;01;45;14 Michael Stearns So moving forward, you can rest assured sleep like a baby that there's nothing that's going to become of it unnecessarily. So make sure that you share this with somebody to help. Look forward to talking again soon.

In this episode, Mike talks about warranties and how it is usually the case that customers need help understanding the specific details of what is being offered with different types. Have you adequately explained the warranties that you offer? Being clear and concise when doing so will improve a customer's experience and help as far as getting them to refer you.   Interested in learning more about Roofr? Get your first roof measurement report for free: https://shorturl.at/quCQ5   Contact us : [email protected] Let's Connect! ==== ==== ==== Website: https://bit.ly/3NQXXKK Facebook: https://bit.ly/3xH8VaT Linkedin: https://bit.ly/3RWTSyr   00;00;00;00 - 00;00;32;14 Michael Stearns And your new roof comes with a 50 year warranty. Okay, let's stop there. Most homeowners don't understand the intricacies of a warranty. They may not understand the difference between your workmanship warranty and your manufacturer warranty. If you're a JV contractor, like, what's the difference between a silver pledge and a golden pledge? I find too often that a lot of folks don't take the time to really drill into each one of these warranties like workmanship and manufacturer and what's included, you know, with the warranty that you choose for your project. 00;00;32;14 - 00;01;09;21 Michael Stearns And I think that if you take the time to educate your consumer, give them the differences, and then in trying to be as objective as possible, make a recommendation based on their needs and their circumstances that will best suit them. I think you'll find that you'll have a much better opportunity to not only close that customer, but create an experience for them that is remarkable and that they're more likely to go and brag about and like, that's ultimately what we want if we're acquiring a customer, you know, from Google, from Facebook, from a billboard, doesn't matter where we want to turn that one customer into three, right? 00;01;09;21 - 00;01;28;26 Michael Stearns They're happy. They get two of their friends. They buy from you. That one customer that you paid to acquire turns into three. So what that boils down to is, well, your cost per acquire job becomes one third and that's a really good thing for your profit. And if you don't hate profit like me, you want to do that every step of the way. 00;01;28;27 - 00;01;50;04 Michael Stearns So this is one thing that I think that will certainly help educate your customer, give them a complete understanding of what these differences are, and then make a recommendation to them, you know, based on being their advisor. Knowing a lot more than them as far as roofing and homes, why they should choose what they're going to choose, right, what they're going to choose and why. 00;01;50;05 - 00;01;55;16 Michael Stearns So make sure save share with somebody this would help them. We'll talk to you again soon.

In this episode, Mike discusses situations where you've enrolled in Google Local Services or Google Guaranteed and are not closing leads. When this is the case, rather than continuing to spend money, it's often best to take a step back, discover the root of the issue, and correct it before proceeding.   Interested in learning more about Roofr? Get your first roof measurement report for free: https://shorturl.at/quCQ5   Contact us : [email protected] Let's Connect! ==== ==== ==== Website: https://bit.ly/3NQXXKK Facebook: https://bit.ly/3xH8VaT Linkedin: https://bit.ly/3RWTSyr   00;00;00;03 - 00;00;18;28 Michael Stearns You should not be spending money on Google. This is the case if and I know. I know. I run a marketing agency. We do a lot of Google ads and SEO and stuff like that and it's very productive. But if you are in a situation where you enroll in Google local services or Google Guaranteed and you are not closing leads, right? 00;00;19;00 - 00;00;35;25 Michael Stearns There's myriad reasons why that would be the case. But if you notice that you're not closing leads, you're not generating revenue out of the money that you're putting out into Google. Don't invest in the Google ads, Don't invest into SEO. Before you do that, isolate, try to understand why are we getting leads? But they're not converting into sells. 00;00;35;29 - 00;00;53;02 Michael Stearns Right? And maybe it's how the calls are being handled. Maybe it's that you're not answering the phone. Maybe it's that your sales process can use improvement. It doesn't matter what the reason is, but we just know that we're putting money out or we're not getting money back in return, which is counterproductive. It's not what we want when we're advertising our business. 00;00;53;05 - 00;01;12;00 Michael Stearns So before a marketing agency tells you, Hey, you should be doing SEO, you should be doing Google ads, if you notice that you have this issue and you're not closing leads from Google, ultimately it's the same person, the same type of person, the same intent when they're coming to Google. If they're clicking Google guaranteed or they're clicking your ad, the maps organic doesn't matter, right? 00;01;12;02 - 00;01;40;17 Michael Stearns Let's clean up, figure out what our issues are, why we're not closing those opportunities that are already coming in. Then once we figure that out, solve the problem and we're generating revenue as a result of the financial output that we have going on, then we can say, okay, let's invest here, here or here. And what makes sense for you might make sense for somebody else, might not make sense for somebody else, but at least you can make an informed decision and have the best chance of your marketing and advertising yielding return and being productive as possible. 00;01;40;24 - 00;01;46;04 Michael Stearns Make sure you share this with somebody that would benefit from it. And if you'd like, match that subscribe button.

In this episode, Mike lays out some advice on effectively tanking your marketing. Whether it's by wasting money, ignoring customers, skipping meetings, or anything else, this is an excellent guide on how to get the least amount back from your marketing. You may want to see positive returns from your marketing efforts; in that case, do the opposite of this.   Interested in learning more about Roofr? Get your first roof measurement report for free: https://shorturl.at/quCQ5   Contact us : [email protected] Let's Connect! ==== ==== ==== Website: https://bit.ly/3NQXXKK Facebook: https://bit.ly/3xH8VaT Linkedin: https://bit.ly/3RWTSyr   00;00;00;08 - 00;00;14;14 Michael Stearns Okay, so what are some things that we can do to make sure that our marketing is least effective as possible? So first thing is take their word for it, whether in the sales process you're working day to day hand in hand with your marketing team, whether it's internal or external. Make sure you just take their word for it. 00;00;14;14 - 00;00;31;25 Michael Stearns If they see that it's going well. Trust is going well. No worries. Second thing is, want to ask questions. See, the thing is, is if we ask questions about what's going on within our marketing and our advertising campaigns, we're more likely to have a better understanding of what the strategy is, what we're doing, and how we can improve it. 00;00;31;27 - 00;00;52;24 Michael Stearns And if we don't want our marketing to do well, we certainly don't want that information. Third thing is make sure that we throw money at non money issues. So if you have broken lead intake systems and processes, just spend more money on leads, hopefully that'll fix it. You have a higher cost per lead, higher cost per acquire job and ultimately your marketing will be less effective. 00;00;52;24 - 00;01;09;24 Michael Stearns And that's what we're trying to do here. So make sure you do that when a lead calls in. The fourth thing we want to do is make sure that they have a terrible experience. You know, don't answer the phone. If you answer the phone, make sure that you're answering the phone in a way that doesn't make them feel welcome, doesn't make them feel compelled to schedule an appointment with you. 00;01;09;26 - 00;01;25;06 Michael Stearns And that'll be a really successful way to make sure that you don't get a new client from the lead. That's calling in. For one thing that we're going to do to make sure that our marketing is the least amount of effective as possible is blame everyone else We all know as far as coping its ways here, to blame someone else than to take accountability. 00;01;25;09 - 00;01;55;07 Michael Stearns And ultimately, if we want as little in return from our marketing and advertising as possible, we always want to blame our marketing managers, our internal marketing team, our external marketing company, because it couldn't be, you know, if we look at our systems and processes or think our sales reps within the company, whoever is responsible for facilitating a lead in to an ultimate customer, and we find that there's issues within that process, we might be able to improve that, which would bring down our cost per lead, a cause for quite a job and increase our profit. 00;01;55;11 - 00;02;11;11 Michael Stearns And we don't want to do that here. We want to make sure we're getting as little as possible out of our marketing and advertising. So make sure you're blaming everybody else and take no accountability for what's happening within your company. The next thing we're going to talk about is never following up. Look, if people want to work with you, they'll keep calling. 00;02;11;11 - 00;02;26;00 Michael Stearns You don't want to follow up. It's going to it's going to make you appear to be desperate. So don't follow up with people have reached out or submitted a form, just make it incumbent upon them to keep showing them how much they want to work with you by them calling you and reaching out to you on a consistent basis. 00;02;26;02 - 00;02;51;27 Michael Stearns That's another surefire way to make sure that our marketing is the least effective as possible. The seventh thing we're going to talk about is schedule meetings. Don't show up if you're having consistent meetings with your internal marketing team or external vendors, obviously you're going to want to get as much information as possible As far as where we're at, where we are now on the improvements that we're seeing and opportunities to optimize our strategy. 00;02;52;00 - 00;03;24;24 Michael Stearns But, you know, again, we don't want this to be effective, so make sure that you just schedule the meetings and never show up and that'll make sure that, you know, you're not on the same page. You don't understand the strategy and ultimately that we're going to get as little in return as possible. The final tip that I'm going to give you as far as making sure we don't make money from our marketing advertising is you want to make sure that everybody who you've employed, whether it's internal or external, who is an expert on a certain subject matter, knows that you know more than them. 00;03;24;26 - 00;03;53;06 Michael Stearns You assert your dominance and you make sure that they follow exactly what you say to do. Okay. This will be a great way, an integral part of making sure that our marketing tanks is by you dictating to whomever it is what's going to happen, how it's going to happen, and why it needs to happen that way, and not giving them any latitude to give you suggestions, recommendations and execute a strategy based on their familiarity with marketing and advertising. 00;03;53;06 - 00;04;00;02 Michael Stearns So if this is helpful, make sure you share it with somebody that you know that could benefit from it. And we look forward to talking to you again soon.

In this episode, Mike talks about the biggest mistake that companies who focus predominantly on insurance claims make when trying to enter the retail market. When making this transition, instead of just relying on the traditional forms of generating business like door knocking, it's important to increase marketing and advertising efforts through tools like Google search. These types of sales require different methods, and proper training is crucial.   Interested in learning more about Roofr? Get your first roof measurement report for free: https://shorturl.at/quCQ5   Contact us : [email protected] Let's Connect! ==== ==== ==== Website: https://bit.ly/3NQXXKK Facebook: https://bit.ly/3xH8VaT Linkedin: https://bit.ly/3RWTSyr   00;00;00;01 - 00;00;18;28 Michael Stearns So today we're going to talk about the biggest mistake that companies that focus predominantly on insurance claims and restoration make when trying to get into the retail market. As we all know, things are changing in the insurance industry. This is what I'm told by, you know, you roofers and a lot of more people are trying to transition into a retail model. 00;00;18;28 - 00;00;46;13 Michael Stearns And what that requires is as opposed to just door knocking or relying on traditional means that are generating opportunities for insurance claims, doing things that are more aligned with generating leads from marketing and advertising. So things like Google Search. One of the biggest pitfalls that I see when companies are making this transition is that they put somebody who is very, very adept and very productive on the insurance claims side of things. 00;00;46;15 - 00;01;18;20 Michael Stearns And they're their top performer, their top sales rep, if you will, into a position without the proper training to sell retail roofing contracts. And it is nowhere near the same. Think of it, there's an art form. And I'm not dismissing how challenging it is to doorknock and to get claims filed, etc., but you're going into a situation where you're selling them the homeowner, something that's ten, 20, $30,000 in value for 500, a thousand, 1500 and $3,000. 00;01;18;23 - 00;01;39;23 Michael Stearns So you're giving them a massive discount, an incentive to purchase the roof from you as a result of their insurance claim. Let's be honest, it's not the same type of sales, Right. Versus in a retail environment, you've got let's say a homeowner goes on Google and they're looking for best roofing contractor near me. They're going through the results. 00;01;39;26 - 00;01;59;29 Michael Stearns They pick you, they call you. There's several there's several different components of this journey that are super, super important. One, what is it they see when they're exposed to you online? Once they reach out to you, what is that intake process like? What is their experience when they're dealing with whoever it is that's answering the phone? What questions are being asked? 00;02;00;04 - 00;02;34;02 Michael Stearns How are we positioning that sales rep? And then ultimately when that sales rep gets there, what does that conversation look like? Do you have a bullet proof sales process that's going to do things like isolate their different pain points, magnify these pain points systematically, get there by and then trial closed throughout that sales process to where you're proactively pulling out the objections, answering questions that they have, and getting that customer to acknowledge that in fact you would be a good fit because this is how you would solve that issue. 00;02;34;04 - 00;02;55;25 Michael Stearns Because then when you get to the end of the conversation and inevitably the I've got to think about it or I've got to talk it over with, my wife comes about, you're now equipped to circle back into the point of the conversation where you've already addressed it and have that conversation. Like those are the type of objections that are not going to be present in the insurance claims process. 00;02;55;29 - 00;03;17;12 Michael Stearns Like if we're door knocking, getting inspections that route, it's a completely different sale. And so if you treat your leads that are coming from Google or advertising the same way that you do from the leads that you're generating through insurance claims, door knocking, you know, and that type of marketing, you're going to be very disappointed with the outcome. 00;03;17;15 - 00;03;42;22 Michael Stearns I had a client a couple of years back. They were making this transition into more retail and they wanted to cancel after a few months. And when I asked why, it was simply because it just wasn't working the way they thought it would. So the primary vehicle that we use to deliver opportunities to this customers, Google local services or Google guaranteed if you're not doing it, regardless of the type of roofing company you are, you should do it. 00;03;42;24 - 00;04;11;21 Michael Stearns Click the link down below and you can get enrolled today. But this is a fixed cost per lead platform and typically it's significantly cheaper than, let's say, Google ads or other alternatives. So it's very, very nice and can be very productive. This particular client had 200 leads over the course of three or four months. And what I wanted to do is I wanted to listen to these calls like what is happening that we're not getting sales because 200 leads is a lot of leads not to feel as if this campaign is productive. 00;04;11;24 - 00;04;29;17 Michael Stearns So we monitor the calls and they receive calls. One of them I remember vividly was, you know, the homeowner called and said, we had this fix last year, but the wall is still leaking. So the issue was obviously still there. We know it's going to cost more, but we want to make sure that we get it done the right way. 00;04;29;20 - 00;04;52;18 Michael Stearns Now, the salesperson that was in charge of this lead was historically the best closer and the highest producer for that company, you know. So I asked them, like, what happened with this lead, right? Because for me, that's a golden opportunity. They're confessing. They went that she brought. So they're they're explicitly saying they're okay with paying more. So what more could you ask for out of the situation? 00;04;52;20 - 00;05;14;21 Michael Stearns When I asked the sales rep about it, you know, he couldn't recall. So I said, okay, let's pull up your CRM. Let's see what happened with the lead. There was no record of it in the CRM, so there was never an opportunity for this. This prospect, this high quality prospect to actually become a paying customer. And because of that, and that wasn't an isolated instance, they saw no value in the leads that were coming in. 00;05;14;21 - 00;05;40;17 Michael Stearns So we have to be intentional about creating systems and processes around how we're generating leads, and that can change from each marketing medium, right? So it could be Facebook, it could be Google, it could be home advisor. But understanding contextually where we're bringing in the customers from what our process is for that marketing medium to make sure that we're consistently optimizing that process to get the most out of every dollar that we're putting out for advertising. 00;05;40;17 - 00;05;46;15 Michael Stearns So I'm sure there'll be some comments. Drop them below. Share this with somebody that would help. And we look forward to talking to you again soon.

In this episode, Mike sits down to have a discussion with Stephen Spence, the Managing Director at Project Map It. Stephen explains the utility of their software and how contractors can use it to increase sales. A point is made that many contractors often pay for software like CRMS and only scratch the surface of what they're capable of. As your business grows, it's essential to set yourself up for future success; unaddressed issues can compound and leave you with significant headaches later down the road.   Interested in learning more about Roofr? Get your first roof measurement report for free: https://shorturl.at/quCQ5   Contact us : [email protected] Let's Connect! ==== ==== ==== Website: https://bit.ly/3NQXXKK Facebook: https://bit.ly/3xH8VaT Linkedin: https://bit.ly/3RWTSyr Stephen Spence and Mike Stearns (00:03.613) So we're live, dude. How are you? steve spence (00:05.134) I- it looked like I saw the countdown. I'm good, man. How are you? Stephen Spence and Mike Stearns (00:08.817) I'm doing well. I'm happy to have you today. Yeah, we all fucking better be. Welcome back to another episode of the Mission Control podcast. It's your boy Mike Stearns with the San Diego agency. We've got a special guest, Mr. Steven Spence with Project MAPIT. If y'all don't know, you're gonna find out today. You're gonna learn today. Shout out to the team at Roofer. They helped bring the show to life. If you need clean and pristine proposals, roof measurements, instant roof quotes. steve spence (00:11.854) I'm happy to be here. Ha ha Stephen Spence and Mike Stearns (00:39.045) a CRM that'll actually work for your company. Hit up the team at Rufr, link down in the description. Y'all know what to do, just do it. Tell them I sent ya. Alright, so it's Friday. We're almost in 2024. How was 2023 for you? steve spence (00:57.006) 2023 was good. I'm sorry, I'm fighting this cold, so I probably don't sound as sexy as I normally do. But 2023 was good. 2023 was good for the company, was good for my personal life. So I cannot complain and I will not complain. Stephen Spence and Mike Stearns (01:03.517) You sound great. Stephen Spence and Mike Stearns (01:12.016) Okay. What is Project MAP-IT? steve spence (01:14.758) We're digital mapping portfolios. So imagine a map with a bunch of pins of all your past installs on a map. It's interactive. So it becomes a really good social proof tool, credibility tool, if you will. On each pin, you can load project photos of the jobs you've done. You can display all your Google, Facebook. We are our own review platform as well. So you can display reviews. So essentially social proof, right? Homeowners are looking for three things. Are you reputable in our area? Yep. Look at all the pins around your house that... we've done installs for. Do you have good reviews? Yep. Click a button on our map, there are reviews. Do you have some pictures of the work you've done? Yep. Oh, what color shingle are you looking for? More A Black? Okay. You click a button that says More A Black and the map will change to only include those products. So that's what we are in a nutshell. Stephen Spence and Mike Stearns (01:59.753) Mm-hmm, okay. So why wouldn't I just take like a picture of like Photoshop pins and you know, not pay project map it. steve spence (02:10.09) Yeah, so homeowners, especially nowadays, right? We're dealing with digital natives, right? 50% of the home improvement projects are now being asked to be done by millennials, people that grew up with phones and devices in their hands, right? You know this, Mike, right? So what can you do? They know what a Photoshop-looking photo looks like. All right, and I've actually been on some inspections with some contractors myself, where they used Project Mappin. And for example, one scenario, husband and wife, they were trying to decide between a pewter and a charcoal black roof. They were able to pull up some pewter roofs with jobs that they did. Very authentic looking pictures. It doesn't look like your classic, you know Google photo that you would find on Google images They were able to find some charcoal black photos and out of the out of the wife's mouth was this is why I love this Software I can see that pewter is the color I want because I'd rather see it on a house Than on the shingle board and she pointed outside where the shingle board was laying Stephen Spence and Mike Stearns (03:12.777) Hmm. Okay. So I'm a contractor. I wanna build more trust and credibility with my target market. So I install this thing on my website and now people can click and they can see projects that we've done. They can filter it by shingle color or manufacturer, whatever their needs are, right? Is that accurate? Okay. So now you've got this thing on the website. steve spence (03:14.919) Ahem. steve spence (03:18.37) Yep. steve spence (03:35.35) Yep, that is accurate. Stephen Spence and Mike Stearns (03:40.985) Is there more value than it just sitting on the website and hoping that people see it and engage with it? steve spence (03:46.642) I feel like you understand our product pretty well because of that lead in question you just asked. We actually pride ourselves with three things, but two things we really pride ourselves on. And the very first thing is something that's not just the website. It's a sales tool. People like Rufr, we're partnered with Rufr and some other proposal platforms out there. We're partnered and really in deep with Engage. That team at Engage is awesome. So we are a sales tool. We will help. a homeowner realize that you're the right contractor for the job because of our social proof deck that we have, our map. Sorry, you'll have to edit that out. But... to answer your question, sales tool, that's what we are. I mean, that's what we're bred, that's what we're made for. So add it to your Engage Deck, your Prezi, your PowerPoint presentation, your proposals that you're using at the in-home sales appointment. Literally, when you open up the map and you click a button, it dives in to where that homeowner lives and they see pins around it. That wow factor, that credibility factor helps close deals just alone, just by showing the pins around that house. Stephen Spence and Mike Stearns (04:55.385) Yeah, that's really cool and I could definitely see how that would help if I'm a consumer and I'm getting pitched by a service based company. I could understand how that would certainly make me trust that person more and feel more comfortable working with that company. My concern is, in the spirit of transparency, As contractors, there's so much cool tech out there. So many things that, hey, if you do this and then you do ABCD once you install it, like this thing will help you immensely. And what I find is that a lot of the times, you know, they purchase a technology and then they don't do the things necessary to get the intended benefit or the maximum capability out of it. Do you see? Contractors struggle with the implementation of it on the sales side to where they're curating each pitch Maybe they've got a decker or a slideshow or they're using engage like in my mind if I own a service a home service company what I would do is like I would have my standard deck and then I would make sure that before I go on every call that I modify a screenshot on one part of the deck where it shows that customer's neighborhood and all the pins that are, you know, around that neighborhood to help build the credibility. Do you see contractors doing that? And if so, like how do you guys help train them set the expectation of what they can do to best leverage that technology to convert more people into sales? steve spence (06:20.446) Yeah, you bring up a really good point, right? In any software, and I know that you work hard on processes with your contractors and building in the right processes, you need to add it to your process. And we tell that on the sales call when we're doing a demo for a contractor that's considering using Project MAPIT. My favorite stat that I say during my presentations when I present about social proof is just 80% of the usage of software is done by 20% of the users. So that means 80% potentially 80% of the Project MAP-IT users out there aren't leveraging us the way they could. So we've actually, funny enough, about two months ago have changed the way we train our customers. We've become more consultant-like in how to leverage Project MAP-IT unless, hey, this is how you add a photo, this is how you add a pin. Because honestly, they can do that on their own. So we've built out some digital training modules that I'd say has cut down about 60, 70% of our onboarding process. because we've built out videos that are pretty simple to follow. We're not a tough system, right? We're not a robust CRM system. We're like adding pins, adding photos, syncing your Google reviews once, and then it does it for you. It updates your map with new Google reviews down the road. So we're not hard. So we've changed, we've shifted the way we've trained our contractors in that they look through these training modules. We'll always train them how to add a pin and stuff. That's always been there, it always will be there, but. We've shifted from training them how to update Project MAP-IT to how to leverage Project MAP-IT. So for example, we set them, we have five steps. It's how to add pins, how to add reviews, how to add photos, how to add this to your sales process. We have a video on how to add it to your iPad and how to navigate it on a tablet. So they go through those themselves. And then when we get on a strategy session, we talk about how to leverage it. and the three pillars that we really talk about are the three processes at the sales point are pre-appointment email that goes out, right? So you could build a map. People are always like, I can't update my map. It's gonna take forever. Update your map once. Some people literally update their map once, have a ton of pictures, ton of reviews, and they don't really even update it except for maybe once a year. Put it in that pre-appointment email. I ask people all the time, Mike, and you probably ask people, what's in your pre-appointment email? And what do you think they always say? steve spence (08:46.334) That's a question for you. I'm putting you on the spot. They, you know a lot. So they say, oh well, our pre-appointment email is pretty simple. It just says when, who the sales rep is, when they're coming out. If you have any questions, call us. I'm like, well, have you considered doing two things? One doesn't have anything to do with our product, but we always recommend when we consult with our contractors that are leveraging Project MAPID. In that pre-appointment email, get a video of your sales rep. Stephen Spence and Mike Stearns (08:48.169) I don't know, bro. I know nothing. steve spence (09:13.514) Right? Like have them introduce themselves so that they know who that sales rep is before they even knock on the door. I was at a recent event with CertainTeed and one of the guys said, yeah, get them to know you before they get to know you. Exactly, like pretty simple, right? I've talked to people that are like, I'm not putting my sales rep in front of a video. They will not do a good job. OK, well then have your owner do a video that's kind of standard for everybody. This is what South Shore Exteriors is, and this is the process that you're going to see when we come out. But the second part of that pre-appointment email is put a link to your portfolio. Like people want to see that you're doing work in their area. Stephen Spence and Mike Stearns (09:53.765) Yeah. I think. steve spence (09:55.61) I saw you smirk. I saw you smirk when I said, uh, video. Talk to me. Stephen Spence and Mike Stearns (10:00.797) Yeah, so our second core value at Ascendant Solutions is not excuses. So like we can make every excuse as to why we don't want to do this, why we can't have a sales rep on camera. But there's like there's always a way to accomplish making your process better, building that rapport with your customer better and like not only even in business, just in your personal life as well. It's much easier to find reasons why you can't do it. I find like through observation of myself. you know, historically and those people around me that a lot of the times you were talking about, you know, training the contractors and this is what you got to do, this is what you got to do. A lot of the times people that aren't successful in their own mind and whatever that means to you, right, I'm not going from my subjective interpretation of success for you, whatever you deem to be successful, a lot of people don't get to that milestone that is success as defined by themselves. And it's not because they don't know what to do. It's because they won't do the shit necessary in order to get there, right? So like, how do we bridge that gap? Because as contractors, they're super busy, right? There's a lot of shit going on, like, and a lot of their attention's getting pulled in so many different directions. So like, how does this become a priority to make sure, even if it's being onboarded and set up once, how do we make that a priority so that they're getting maximum benefit? steve spence (10:59.982) correct. steve spence (11:21.85) I agree, 100%. And honestly, we're starting to grow. You were asking how 2023 was. 2024, I feel like we could probably double in size with our customer base. We've got a lot of good things cooking for us. And so for me, I'm growing. And one of the things we always talk about, and it's the same stat, 80% of the usage is done by 20% of the users. We're starting to grow, and I have a CRM. We use what's called HubSpot. And literally, I've put in over the last two months knowing that this growth phase is about to hit us. we've been putting in a lot of automations that I didn't realize HubSpot did. So I would always recommend anybody you asked about technology, anybody that's using technology, you probably are already using technology that will do some of the stuff you want. So dig a little deeper with the customer team, customer success team of that technology, whether that's a CRM or a company cam or whatever tool you're using and learn how to use it better. Stephen Spence and Mike Stearns (12:15.205) Yeah, that's a really good point. I come across it all the time, whether it's, you know, let's just go with CRM, because that's what we're talking about. There's so many companies, like even young companies that are paying for something like Acculink, like Acculink is, it's a good CRM. It's more expensive than some of the alternatives. So like if you're going to You know, not by the base model that'll you know, the car that'll get you from point A to point B because you want all the extra cool features and bells and whistles, but you're never going to use them like what's the point. Right. And that's not saying that's, you know, that's not necessarily saying get away from what CRM you're using. But to your point. steve spence (12:45.428) Yeah. Stephen Spence and Mike Stearns (12:51.473) Figure out what it's capable of and then actually get yourself and your team on board with adopting that technology and using it the best you can to minimize friction within your processes to minimize the likelihood of human error. Because as you know if you're a two million dollar company and you're going to go to six million next year or the year after these small problems become disproportionately more of a headache as you grow right. I've witnessed this firsthand. steve spence (13:16.054) bigger problems. Yeah, correct. Stephen Spence and Mike Stearns (13:20.281) So we can get ahead of that. And like you said, you're anticipating growth, so you're starting to leverage these automations that you didn't know exist. If we can be proactive to digging into these things, it's gonna make your life and your team's life a lot easier when that growth is actualized, right? steve spence (13:36.834) could not agree 100% more. That is well said. Stephen Spence and Mike Stearns (13:43.137) You know, I'm not necessarily a creative person. My team is super creative and they're fantastic. steve spence (13:48.311) Yeah. Stephen Spence and Mike Stearns (13:50.493) But like as we're sitting here having this conversation, like I started thinking, okay, I'm a marketing and advertising guy, although we don't do Facebook, I started thinking about like Facebook ads. And maybe there's like a drone, like a drone shoot, like going around a house that then zooms in to like the install taking place. And then it jump cuts over to like project map it at like a 30,000 foot overview. And then you click into that neighborhood that you're targeting and it zooms in and shows all the pins on the map. And then it zooms back out and shows continued production. steve spence (14:18.359) Hehehe Stephen Spence and Mike Stearns (14:20.447) of the job, right? And it's like, I think that would be really cool because you can create 10 different ad sets in 10 different neighborhoods that you want to have a strong presence in or that you do and you want to perpetuate. And you could run ads like that, that I think would be really engaging. steve spence (14:35.694) I can't wait to see a couple of your ads that you're going to build out that are exactly you just. No you said you said ads I thought you were talking about like don't you do Google ads and stuff. Yeah the media I know. Stephen Spence and Mike Stearns (14:38.905) I ain't fucking doing it, bro. You gotta hit up like Matt Smith or something. I ain't touching Facebook. Facebook is such a- Stephen Spence and Mike Stearns (14:48.609) Yeah, we do Google ads and stuff, but like, you know, Facebook is going to be more like media related ads, you know, to where you can leverage like that type of cool concept. And I think really make a meaningful impact from steve spence (14:59.138) I'm gonna have to tell my boy Jordan Harrison to do one of those for one of our clients that we share. Stephen Spence and Mike Stearns (15:04.989) J-dubs get it done, baby. And I'll tell you what when you see the return on it All I ask is for a little bit of credit. All right steve spence (15:14.142) Well, you did bring up another good point in just the idea of drone photography and technology. People are using them now more and more for roof measurements, but also more for marketing purposes. And there's nothing like on Project MAPIT, the best roofing before and after is with a drone, right? The same angle. before followed by a same angle after photo. I always got to give credit to Joe Ailer over at Tariel Construction Group. They're out of Maryland, Harford County, Maryland. If anybody's watching this and they want to see what good marketing is, Joe was using drones before drones were even a thing. He hired a guy full-time about five years ago. So drone photography is pretty legit. I love it, especially in the exterior remodeling. Stephen Spence and Mike Stearns (15:54.886) Mm. Stephen Spence and Mike Stearns (15:58.193) Nice. Yeah, I mean, I'll say I have customers that use Project MAPIT. They enjoy it. It's definitely worth checking out and having a conversation, figuring out like what how you can take that technology implemented into what you've got going on to strengthen, you know, the different aspects of your business that it can that it can do so. So what questions you got for me, sir? You got anything for me? steve spence (16:10.623) Yeah. steve spence (16:23.126) I'm a little disappointed that I didn't have you stopped doing the dad jokes. Is that what's going on? Stephen Spence and Mike Stearns (16:27.301) No, you know, we just, dude, we're just taking a break. It's not goodbye, it's see you later, okay? So we had some technical difficulties with the new studio set up this morning, which caused me to be a little bit behind schedule. And you know, and if you come for just the dad jokes and I failed you, accountability is our first core value here, I'm sorry, I will own that shit. This is your formal apology, and I'll be better next time. steve spence (16:31.399) Alright. Okay. steve spence (16:41.388) Yep. steve spence (16:48.467) Ha ha steve spence (16:54.026) I want to know from you how you're doing over at Ascent in your personal life. How are things going? Stephen Spence and Mike Stearns (16:58.825) Dude, things are great, man. We're growing. Customers are happy. Team seems happy. I don't know if they tell me if they weren't. I've got Christian. Christian gave me a thumbs up, so he's happy. And he's the only one within an earshot right now. So we're one for one, baby. Had a baby boy about five weeks, four and a half weeks ago. Little Everett Michael. He's a little champ. Very active hand, so I'm excited to see maybe if he gets into boxing or something like that. And. steve spence (17:03.297) Yep. steve spence (17:06.845) Yep. steve spence (17:24.214) Boxing. some hoops. Stephen Spence and Mike Stearns (17:28.098) I won't influence his decision making. I'll just be there to support him. steve spence (17:34.519) I have a ninth grader and he's a lacrosse kid. I grew up playing lacrosse, but he's also a really good swimmer. So I try hard honestly not to influence because I'm his coach as well and that's always not a great mix. Stephen Spence and Mike Stearns (17:46.674) Yeah, I am fun fact the least efficient swimmer you'll ever meet. I would say, I don't know, 80% of the time I forget to kick my feet. So it's like, you know, I swim a half a lap and my shoulders are smoked because my upper body is doing all the work and I don't understand why. You know, I'm just not intentional, I guess. You got to be more deliberate. Kick your damn feet, Mike. Okay. steve spence (17:49.848) Yep. steve spence (18:06.551) Yeah. steve spence (18:11.427) I'm a short dude, so short legs, short arms. I do not swim well. I have two swimmers in my family. My daughter, she just got upgraded to juniors, which is pretty legit. She's doing really well and she works her butt off. So yeah, swimming's not for me, but I am now a swim dad. So I go to my son's Friday swim meets, which are long. Do you know, have you ever been to a swim meet? It's like a fricking, it's the worst thing ever. Stephen Spence and Mike Stearns (18:22.888) guys. Stephen Spence and Mike Stearns (18:33.681) No. I've been to gymnastics meets, which I'd imagine are... steve spence (18:36.766) Yeah, it's the same concept, right? You're like watching your kids for two minutes total out of like three and a half hours of sitting there. I mean, cheering on the team, I'm getting used to it, but that's been fun. I do have one question for you, and it's selfishly for me. You know, as we grow, I'm hiring new people. We just hired two new people for the company. I anticipate that growth to continue probably. Stephen Spence and Mike Stearns (18:44.299) Very similar. Sure. Stephen Spence and Mike Stearns (18:51.475) Shoot. steve spence (19:02.434) February, March, April, maybe we'll have to hire a couple more. What kind of things do you do with your team since your team does love you and loves working together? Can you give me like one or two things that you do that you think helps your team be inspired and get along well? Stephen Spence and Mike Stearns (19:20.538) Yeah. Here's the thing I claim not to be. I don't claim to be a guru on this stuff. I have what I think is right. And I try to follow that. And I try to remember it wasn't too long ago when I worked for someone else. And in life, a lot of the times, it hasn't been like, I know the answer. It's I know what I don't want to happen. And like in my previous employment history, things that I didn't like and what it resulted in. So like, that's kind of the lens that I look through. Not saying it's right, but it's what I do. So since you asked, here you go. We did a nice dinner. steve spence (19:25.998) It's fair. steve spence (19:29.538) Yep. steve spence (19:37.559) Yep. Stephen Spence and Mike Stearns (19:53.035) you know, for like a holiday party with some recognition. I wrote Christmas cards. We all had, again, I think a great time. I enjoyed myself. I hope they did too. We had a we had a sales goal this year. Which is tough for them because they don't directly impact it per se because they're not having the sales calls. But like it's really important because every piece of my team that is fulfilling different aspects of customer needs have a massive impact. And I've, I tried to, and I should do a better job of consistently reminding them that like the only reason that these sales happen are because of the work that you do. So that's my takeaway from this meeting. Thank you. Um, we're doing a retreat in Tampa. Um, steve spence (20:27.83) Right? Yep. Stephen Spence and Mike Stearns (20:33.897) we're gonna do like a little bit of planning for 2024. And maybe that's like a few hours that we're gonna do out of like a three day trip. And then the rest of the time, we're just gonna do some fun activities that's coming up in February because we hit our sales target. Yeah, and I think they don't know this yet. And... Hopefully they can't hear me. I wanna do something called Teach It Tuesdays, where we just have a morning meeting and everybody comes to the table with something they can teach the team. And it can be something with regards to their job, their position, something that they've learned or something that they think would be helpful to the team. It could be something that they wanna teach the team about themselves, a book that they read, whatever it is, like just come and bring something to the table to talk about that it has meaning to you. Because I think that... steve spence (21:09.399) Thank you. Stephen Spence and Mike Stearns (21:21.093) The better we understand each other, the more we know about each other, the easier it is to relate, be compassionate, and be unified as just one cohesive unit. So we're going to start that in 2024. steve spence (21:33.13) I love that idea. I think I'm going to steal it. I think that's a great idea. We meet once a week, but I like the idea of engaging your employees in that respect. It definitely shows empathy, trust, all that stuff. Speaking of trust, I heard Eric Obram talked about the team model. I loved it. So if anybody wants it, I don't know if you know it, but it was, it really was an aha moment. Kind of like your teach a Tuesday thing was an aha moment for him. So appreciate you sharing that. Stephen Spence and Mike Stearns (22:00.137) Appreciate you listening, man. If you wanna steal it, steal it, it's fine. Tell them what was your idea. I do it all the time. No, no, you don't do that, you don't do that. Always a pleasure, dude. I look forward to more of these meetings. Next time I do have one request. In light of you being a swim dad, I want you to narrow from the neck up and I want you to wear a swim cap. steve spence (22:01.631) Yeah man, for sure. steve spence (22:06.254) Okay. I'm gonna tell them it was your idea. steve spence (22:14.786) Yeah, man. steve spence (22:20.034) Yep. steve spence (22:29.502) a swim cap. Yeah, I can do that. I mean, it'll go on pretty easy. I don't have much hair. So Stephen Spence and Mike Stearns (22:32.553) Sweet. Alright, dude, just make sure that you're 100% hairless from the knockup with a swim cap so it can be appropriate and we'll go from there. It'll be great. Oh, yeah, absolutely. It's gonna be great. Alright, maybe I'll throw a swim cap on too. steve spence (22:43.17) Do I wear it for the whole interview? Okay, deal. Done deal. I love it. steve spence (22:53.518) Good man. Stephen Spence and Mike Stearns (22:53.721) Um, yeah, dude, I appreciate you. I appreciate all you that tuned in today. Thank you to Rufor for helping make the show possible and we gone. steve spence (23:02.146) Thanks, brother.

In this episode, Mike goes over tips and tricks on how to get the most from your marketing manager. Companies often hire a marketing manager without a proper vision for them. This can lead to frustration on both sides. Clear expectations and a well-thought-out plan will ensure you can get the most out of your marketing manager, which benefits both of you.   Interested in learning more about Roofr? Get your first roof measurement report for free: https://shorturl.at/quCQ5   Contact us : [email protected] Let's Connect! ==== ==== ==== Website: https://bit.ly/3NQXXKK Facebook: https://bit.ly/3xH8VaT Linkedin: https://bit.ly/3RWTSyr 00;00;23;09 - 00;00;31;01 Unknown What is the roadmap to making sure that your marketing manager is making the biggest impact possible for your company, your customers? 00;00;31;03 - 00;00;47;03 Unknown I recently put out a short piece of content and drew the ire of some people that have marketing managers. So I want to talk about the solution. What can we do to make the most out of the position? And that's what we'll do in this video. Stick around till the end because there will be a bonus piece of content that will be truly meaningful and impactful. 00;00;47;05 - 00;01;09;28 Unknown So the first thing I'd recommend doing is market research. Understand what your prospective customers, what they want. You can analyze your historical data, use leverage your employees like they're talking to these customers and have historically get insights from them as far as what your customers prefer, what they like, what they don't like, and analyze and understand your competitors. 00;01;09;28 - 00;01;28;18 Unknown What are they doing that maybe we can do better and they'll be a point of differentiation so that we can really stand out in the market. On the digital marketing side. You can use tools like samurais or rafts or Mars to understand what they're doing online, the type of content that they're creating, what type of backlinks that they have. 00;01;28;21 - 00;01;36;12 Unknown And again, ultimately the goal that we want to achieve is differentiating ourselves and ultimately get more visibility is from your target market. 00;01;36;12 - 00;02;00;28 Unknown Another thing is brand management and identity. What is your brand? There's a lot of things that are encompassed within brand, and that's a topic for another video. But making sure that your brand is clear, consistent messaging is consistent across all platforms and what you're conveying to your current customers, your future customers is the same throughout it. What you want it to be homogenous, right? 00;02;00;28 - 00;02;17;28 Unknown You don't want, you know, messaging in this county to be different than messaging in this county or your door hangers here to look different than your door hangers here. You want as much synergy as possible so that it really resonates with your prospective audience as far as who you are, what you stand for, and why they should work with you 00;02;17;28 - 00;02;26;20 Unknown content creation and management? What type of content are you guys putting out? This goes for blogs. Google Business profile, posting videos. 00;02;26;20 - 00;02;46;26 Unknown What are you putting out and why? So developing a content calendar to make sure that the content that you're putting out to your target audience is consistent with your values, what you bring to the table as far as value and really helping educate your prospects in advance of their need can be absolutely huge. 00;02;46;26 - 00;02;49;14 Unknown As far as making you a trusted industry authority, 00;02;49;14 - 00;03;09;02 Unknown CRM management, what's going into your CRM? How is it being used? What type of automations are being leveraged in that process? This is an opportunity for your marketing manager to pay attention to these things, to ultimately optimize what's being done or what's not being done to make sure that everything within your company is a seamless as possible. 00;03;09;04 - 00;03;27;03 Unknown There's the least amount of friction as there can be because as you increase friction, you increase the likelihood of unhappy employees and negative customer experience. And if there's just a little attention to detail consistently set forth to that process and understanding how we can maybe make it better, it goes a long way. 00;03;27;08 - 00;03;54;03 Unknown Analyzing data and reporting this is another opportunity to add a tremendous amount of value to the company for marketing manager. This can be reporting from your digital marketing company. It can be reporting from your CRM, but understanding these insights. What's going on with different aspects or spokes within the company, and then taking those insights and deriving a plan to improve every nature of the business is absolutely vital as a growing company. 00;03;54;05 - 00;04;07;01 Unknown And whether you want to grow, whether you want to be more profitable, whatever the case is, making sure that we understand the numbers around our business are an integral part of growth and being successful. So we want to make sure that they're paying attention to these things, 00;04;07;01 - 00;04;13;05 Unknown setting and managing budgets right. So what are we spending? Where are we spending it? 00;04;13;08 - 00;04;41;20 Unknown What's coming as a result of where we're investing our money? We always want to make sure that for every dollar out, we're getting as much back to the company as possible. So your marketing manager can make sure that they are in consistent analysis of all these different places that we're placing our money, try to do their best to understand the ROI associated with these different channels of marketing, advertising, branding, to make sure that we can make educated decisions moving forward to best position ourselves for success in the future. 00;04;41;24 - 00;05;11;13 Unknown Collaboration and strategic partnerships is absolutely huge, right? So it could be collaborating with your sales team to get a pulse on what they're hearing from their customers. It could be building a strategic partnership with a another contractor, whether it's in the same industry or an adjacent home service industry to ultimately send more referral work back and forth. Like this is a great opportunity and a just a fantastic use of a marketing manager's time to create more opportunities for your company moving forward. 00;05;11;16 - 00;05;18;17 Unknown I highly recommend that any marketing manager out there focuses on these because the upside is tremendous. 00;05;18;17 - 00;05;21;27 Unknown For marketing Manager. It's important to understand that 00;05;21;27 - 00;05;38;22 Unknown what worked five years ago, what works today will work five years from now. It's fluid. It often change so consistently doing research as far as trends in the industry, in your market like that can be a very valuable component to consistently optimizing where you're 00;05;38;22 - 00;05;49;27 Unknown spending your money from marketing and advertising perspective to make sure that we have our ROI top of mind and we're consistently doing the things that are necessary to be as successful as possible. 00;05;50;00 - 00;06;22;18 Unknown Another great opportunity is to make sure that your marketing manager is consistently meeting with the people responsible for your marketing, whether that's an internal team, it's an external team or some sort of hybrid blend of both. It's important that they're committed to having consistent meetings, understanding what's taking place as it relates to the marketing and advertising for your company, because with this knowledge they can consistently hold people accountable, make any type of iterations or pivots to the campaigns that they see fit to ultimately position us for success moving forward. 00;06;22;23 - 00;06;44;08 Unknown Okay, so having said all that, I promise you a bonus tip at the end. Here's the delivery. So if you have a marketing manager set up routine meetings with your sales team, your sales team is consistently talking to people within your market that own homes and ultimately need service. Some of those meetings will result in sales for your company. 00;06;44;11 - 00;07;17;00 Unknown Some of them will result in absolutely nothing other than the feedback that they got from that customer. That feedback is still very important because if we can understand what the most typical reasons are that a homeowner decides not to do business with us, that gives us valuable insights as far as how can we proactively in the future cater our branding, our messaging, our conversations, our sales pitches in a way that proactively disarms those objections or mitigates the impact fulness of them and neutralizes them in a sense. 00;07;17;02 - 00;07;28;00 Unknown And if we make a concerted effort to do that, we're going to be better positioned on our ongoing sales calls with a higher likelihood of closing those prospects and having them become customers of ours. 00;07;28;00 - 00;07;45;00 Unknown So I hope that you found this information helpful. Drop any comments that you have. If you think this will benefit somebody, share with them. We want as many people to see this as possible so they can make the best use of the resources within their company to again, position themselves for success today, tomorrow, and beyond. 00;07;45;02 - 00;07;46;02 Unknown Appreciate you viewing.  

In this episode, Mike shares the insights he's had in his life about the difference between influence and control. Understanding this comparison can help you avoid disappointment and change how you approach meetings.   Interested in learning more about Roofr? Get your first roof measurement report for free: https://shorturl.at/quCQ5   Contact us : [email protected] Let's Connect! ==== ==== ==== Website: https://bit.ly/3NQXXKK Facebook: https://bit.ly/3xH8VaT Linkedin: https://bit.ly/3RWTSyr   Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency (00:00.522) Okay, so we've got influence, we've got control. Two completely different things, and understanding the difference between the two has made a massive impact in my life, and hopefully it'll help you make an impact in yours as well. Welcome back, I'm Mike Stearns with the Send Digital Agency, Mission Control Podcast. This episode's probably brought to you by Roofer. If you need instant roof quotes, roof measurements, clean and pristine proposals, or a CRM, get up the team at Roofer. It'll be linked down in the description. Tell them I sent ya, you'll be happy that you did. So. Influence versus control. Like what is the difference between the two? The way that I perceive this is, if I go into an expectation, with an expectation that I can go into a situation and influence an outcome, what that means to me is that I ultimately am not in charge or responsible for that outcome itself. I can have an impact potentially. on the outcome, but it's not guaranteed, right? It's not causal. Whereas in a situation where I have control, if A, then B, it's very clear cut, right? My action, my words will 1000% guarantee this result. And when I was younger and even to this day, it's something that I work on all the time. I found when I was younger that I would typically go into situations where I didn't necessarily have control. I would only be able to influence. potentially the outcome, and I'd go in the mindset where I can control this. If I do these three different things, this should happen, right? And it was misguided, right? And what that would do is it would create a ton of negative emotions, because I'm a competitive person, I like to win. So if I set an expectation for myself that, hey, Mike, if you go into the situation and you do A, B, C, and D, the outcome's gonna be exactly what you want it to be, it's comforting. In the moment, it feels good to have control. But again, when that doesn't happen, you're sad, you're anxious, you feel like you haven't won, like you've lost, you feel defeated. And the biggest thing is that these isolated instances, they can compound if you do them consistently, right? And after years of doing this, I had to be very intentional about, you know, kind of taking a look back and like, why do I feel this way? Why am I so upset? Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency (02:23.97) that I didn't get the result that I wanted. And in a lot of the instances, it was simply because I went into a situation under the assumption that I could control an outcome when I couldn't control it at all. Again, if we have control, we feel comforted, right? We feel very comforted in the fact that I can dictate an outcome. But a lot of the times we don't have control. There's too many variables in an equation outside of ourselves and our actions and our words that are ultimately going to dictate what the outcome is, whether it's desirable or not. So again, for me, delineating between those two and understanding, hey, you might be able to do A, B, C, and D, Mike. And those actions, those words, those activities may increase the likelihood that you get the desired outcome. But it doesn't guarantee it. What that did for me. we didn't get the outcome that I wanted is essentially, I didn't feel as bad, I didn't feel as defeated, didn't create that anxiety to the degree that it would if I was operating under the pretense that I was going to get the desired outcome. So again, it's something that I work on every single day and I'll continue to do so in perpetuity because those events again can compound and be defeating quite honestly. So hopefully this has helped you. Be sure to follow us on every platform, Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, tik tok. Love talking to you guys. Look forward to talking to you again soon.

In this episode, Mike invites Tim Brown, owner and CEO of Hook Agency, to discuss lead generation. Tim shares insightful tips on what you should be cautious about when buying seller leads. They also dive into the importance of referrals and why they should remain a significant focus even when business is booming.    Interested in learning more about Roofr? Get your first roof measurement report for free: https://shorturl.at/quCQ5   Contact us : [email protected] Let's Connect! ==== ==== ==== Website: https://bit.ly/3NQXXKK Facebook: https://bit.ly/3xH8VaT Linkedin: https://bit.ly/3RWTSyr   Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency (00:00.738) So did you hear about the crustacean accused of promoting his own shellfish interests? Tim Brown (00:08.179) I had not. Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency (00:11.622) I mean, okay, they don't all land, but you keep trying. Shoot your shot, and if you miss, shoot the ball again.  Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency (00:44.27) Well, welcome back to another episode of the Mission Control podcast with yours truly Mike Stearns of Ascend Digital Agency. Today we've got Tim Brown. Welcome, Tim. Thanks for coming. Tim Brown (00:58.242) Thanks for having me, bro. I appreciate you putting me on. Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency (01:01.994) Yeah, man, of course. And as always, thanks to Rufr. Great company. You need instant quotes, roof measurements, clean and pristine proposals that give your prospects no choice but to buy it up the team at Rufr. Down in the description will be a link y'all know what to do. Tell them I sent you, you'll be happy you did. Okay. Moving on. So what is lead gentem? I mean, people ask me all the time and they're like, Hey, You guys do lead gen? And I'm like, well, yeah, I guess technically speaking, we do generate leads. But I feel as if there's usually a disconnect as far as what I perceive their question as and the lens that they're looking through. So what does lead gen mean to you? Tim Brown (01:45.994) I think the most concerning is when somebody is like, do you got leads? It's like, what, what leads? You got any more of the leads? And they're kind of, they're talking about purchased leads. They're talking about like, if they're used to Angie or home advisor or one of these resellers of, or sellers of leads, right. Which is honestly, if you're for real as the bottom of the barrel of leads. Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency (01:51.902) Y'all got any more of them leads, man? Tim Brown (02:15.346) It's right up there. It's just because they are often, where do these leads come from? You've got different sources, right? You've got one place that commonly they come from is call centers, which there was no intent to purchase originally until they got called. They got called and then they got shoved into this label of lead. And then on Angie and Home Advisor, Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency (02:16.462) Why is that? Tim Brown (02:44.194) they are using every possible way to get out onto the internet, including very vigorous, they purchase next door and put their ads everywhere on there. Right. And then calculators and then advertising so that people with some interest. And that's the thing is like some interest, not necessarily like they're looking per se, but maybe they're looking for a price and they have calculators on their site and they're they call that a lead. And then it's all deteriorated a little bit by the fact that they sell it more than once. Right, if you sell a lead four times, it's really 25% of a lead. Because now, and it's the worst part is, is that you're competing with people, you have to lower your prices and you actually could wear out your salespeople from it. So those are what people sometimes are calling leads. And even worse, I had people at Rooftop that came up to us and like, hey, do you have any like, ah. Like people that are going to go sell these to somebody else that are talking about like, do we buy aged leads? Aged leads? That's not a lead anymore. That's a contact, bro. You're going to give me some something that I've got in my CRM from six months ago and sell it back to somebody else as a lead. Like. I don't know. Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency (04:10.531) Mm. Tim Brown (04:11.498) why people still fall for this. So the real contrast with a marketing partner and a leads company, and I like that, like I do think of myself as lead generation, but we're not like a lead selling company. The real contrast is that somebody's trying to help you build up your own house and somebody else is just trying to. kind of sell you stuff that's like rehashed and garbage. I don't know. I mean, like, obviously I'm saying that too strong for somebody to think I'm impartial. But the point is, is like we're talking about selling context. It's context more than a lead. So I just wish there would be people would be more accurate about what they're saying when they're talking about selling leads. Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency (04:59.606) Yeah, and that's kind of, I too think of our company as one that generates leads, but I also think that, I think that most contractors, and this is through my experience, and I guess I shouldn't paint with a broad stroke, but I'm going to. Most contractors I've dealt with when they're asking for a lead gen, they're asking for a fixed cost per lead, right? I wanna buy leads at this dollar amount from you, and I wanna make money from doing that. And it sounds well and good, but as Tim mentioned, you know unintended consequences of that pursuit is that you get recycled leads you get people that are like straight up I never asked anyone for a roofing contractor to come out With that being said Have you found instances where it's beneficial for a contractor to leverage a platform like an Angie or a thumbtack? Or any other type of lead aggregation service? Tim Brown (05:55.518) Yeah, I mean, well, I hear stories. I hear, I hear stories of it being successful, right? Like few people in the industry that I respect that talk about lead aggregation, Chuck Tokey talks about it. Chuck Tokey says you have to have a system. Most people that use buying leads, they don't have a good enough system, which what he's really saying is you better be super on it super quick. And I think it's also understanding that it's more of like a, it's a partially interested contact than it is like a super ripe lead. So you have to be much more. Aggressive with that prospect. Like you should almost treat it like we're going to go door knock again to this house that like we got a lead from, you know, like you, you almost have to take it a different route, like it's a different, just like with Google is a different route than like door knocking or like. If somebody doesn't know how to close a local service ad lead, then maybe they're not going to close a Google ad lead that because there's a different route, right? People don't know you that well. Same with these. So I respect his take on that. Um, Jonathan bros has said, you know, they use this, you know, sometimes they buy Angie leads or, you know, different things he has said, I think he's his active prospect. to confirm whether it's a real lead. I think that system essentially, it even provides a screen recording of them filling out the form on the website just to confirm that it's a real human being and to give a second, you need almost like a second party accountability structure in place for Angie. Because here's the deal, like that company is kind of known for some shadier ethics. And like, that is where it comes down to like, from my point of view, it's like, if you gotta do all that, maybe I don't want your leads in the first place. But I mean, with a company like his, where they are a big growth company and they're taking every conceivable option for getting more leads, if you have a system in place, those are two people that I know that have talked about it in a positive way that I respect. Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency (07:49.19) Sure. Tim Brown (08:16.414) Some of the people that I hear talking about on a positive I'm like, I don't know if I, you know, like sometimes it's like one year it's good and then one year is bad, so it's just hard to know who's accurate when they're talking about it, those two people I do respect though. Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency (08:19.403) Yeah. Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency (08:31.746) Yeah, yeah, likewise. Shout out to John and Chuck. What I find is, yeah, for companies that use it with success, so these lead aggregation companies, there's a process around how the lead's going to be handled and that process is actually followed. Big difference. between having a process and following the process. And there's somebody who's responsible for consistently keeping them honest, right? So, you know, checking in on the quality of the leads and then disputing and going through, it's not as easy as like, you know, a lot of the times Google local services is where if you're disputing a lead, you click a button, you get an email, four days later, your lead dispute has been resolved. Energy doesn't make it that easy. So you have to have somebody that has the time and... Tim Brown (08:54.72) Yeah. Tim Brown (09:11.55) Mm-hmm. Yeah. Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency (09:17.558) the perseverance, the grit, the moxie to deal with the Angians on the other end of the line to potentially hold them accountable in that event that takes place. And I think that's, and it's been helpful. I've talked to some younger guys that are smaller companies and they've had success with it. Tim Brown (09:21.516) Yeah. Tim Brown (09:28.279) Yeah. Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency (09:36.234) you know, because I think that, you know, if you don't have leads coming in from seven different venues, it's a lot easier to pay attention to that one avenue that's bringing you opportunities outside of repeat referrals, word of mouth and things like that. So yeah, that's what it's my two cents for what it's worth. Tim Brown (09:53.43) Great. Two cents. I didn't think like, you know, so just so people know Angie's the biggest one. We've got call centers is another big one. Um, Angie has their stock has been slipping. Right. For the last few years, stock slipping Angie's list purchased home advisor, or, uh, sorry, home advisor purchased Angie's list for the positive brand association. and then applied all their systems to it and call it Angie. They fucked up their SEO. They're like, and I, my little known fact, one of our SEOs got, got grabbed by the company doing SEO for Angie. And it was right about the time that everything was And I was like watching, I was like, Oh God, that was sucked out. The dude it's giant website, total redirect from Angie's list.com to Angie. And we know how annoying these projects can be. You have to like try to redirect every single page on the website to the corresponding page on the new website. And it's just this giant monster. And I'm sure some resources were lost when you have like all these tools, these calculators on these websites and stuff like that. Probably lost a bunch of this stuff that was driving some traffic. Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency (10:59.416) Mm-hmm. Tim Brown (11:07.658) at the same time their stock was going down. But good news for the stockholders are the, uh, the, uh, there was an increase in revenue at the same time that they're having less leads. How did that happen? I don't know. I don't know exactly. And I wasn't, this wasn't like now, like we've got a, this was like a year ago. So there was like. Right now there's a decrease in, well, there is increase, decrease in inquiries in general for home services, right? So I don't want to like rip on them for any of that, but it's just, it was funny that the decrease in inquiries was also at the time where the revenue was going up, which means they were just selling less leads for more money. And that's funny. That's funny to me for some reason. Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency (11:57.53) Right. Supply and demand baby. Tim Brown (12:02.482) Yeah, exactly. Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency (12:05.594) Yeah, let's talk about that for a minute. Search volume goes down. We could speculate, right? Interest rates, borrowing money, cost more, right? People, because of that, the economy's not great, or at least perceived, it seems like. So in light of that, people tend to hold onto their money with a tighter fist, are more apprehensive to buy, and because of that, Tim Brown (12:08.02) Yeah. Tim Brown (12:14.085) Yep. Yeah. Tim Brown (12:28.938) Yes. Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency (12:32.982) If you got 10 people clicking through to your website, they're probably less likely to get a higher percentage of those to actually submit a form than maybe two years ago. And then when you're having sales meetings, you're probably, if you're closing at 40% two years ago, maybe you're not closing at 40% now, just because everything is becoming much more challenging to ultimately convince that customer it's time. And then when you convince that customer it's time convincing them that you're the best for the project. Tim Brown (12:40.558) Mm-hmm. Yep. Tim Brown (12:50.452) Mm-hmm. Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency (13:01.102) What are you seeing on your side as it relates to those statements? Tim Brown (13:01.742) Mm-hmm. Tim Brown (13:05.854) Yeah, you know, pressure on lead price going up, right? There's there's pressure and probably every market, but particularly ones without storms, that's not super unusual. But yeah, we and I don't know, I'm guessing you do something like that. But we talk about like closed deals, right? Like we talk about what's closed. And so that conversation gets a little hairier when conversion, like when. Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency (13:32.792) Mm-hmm. Tim Brown (13:35.842) sales conversion rate goes down because then it's like, is the lead quality down? What's going on? You know, like it's lead quality is down, I think, in more places, but it's not it can't like, wow, it's I was like, is it marketing's fault? It's you know what I mean? Like it's the angel. Like, yeah, exactly. We're all pointed. Then it's not really. Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency (13:54.09) Right. The salesors are marketing and it's just like the Spider-Man meme, right? Tim Brown (14:03.166) I think our smartest customers almost lead with it. They lead with like, Hey, I know what's happening in the broader market. We still got to try to like keep a positive look and try to get the best results we possibly can under these circumstances. The worst customers of a marketing, the worst partners of a marketing agency are the ones that go. They don't have one finger pointed at them, pointed at you. They've got both fingers pointed at you and they're thinking agencies fault, agencies fault, agencies faults. And those are usually the ones that go through seven agencies in seven years. Right? Like it's going to be tough, dude. It's going to be a tough next year. Like we're not dealing with like ideal circumstances in roofing or any kind of contract or home service business right now. We're lucky that people just still need roofs. Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency (14:55.415) Yeah. Tim Brown (14:56.214) We're lucky that we're lucky that people still need roofs. And maybe some of this pressure that we're experiencing now is a foreshadow of insurance companies tightening up, you know, over the next five, 10 years where there's going to be less covered coverage on these roofs in general. Right. Like the difficulty it's going to be harder to close. So what do we have control over? You know, that's all that we can do. And my company is different than in a roofing company. If I'm a roofing company owner, I'm thinking, how can I get more referrals? How can I implement? I like shout them out constantly, but, you know, Matt Danskin's restoration referral system, how can I? You know, there's a new game. There's a new game in the market. Restoration referrals dot com. Or sorry, it's actually sorry, it's roofing referrals dot com. And it's by. the dude, Randy Hurtado from DT Roofing. And there, it's like kind of around insurance agents, realtors and other people that often refer. And it's essentially like their recommendations plus an app, plus a community. Anything you can do to increase referrals and anything we can do to make it easier to purchase. And it's all complicated by the fact that like my game. I've been suggesting financing for a long time and now that's getting harder too. So it's getting to a harder game. We're getting to a harder game. That's what I feel right now for roofers. And that's not, it's not the same for everybody though. So maybe you just have less competitors in a few years. Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency (16:29.411) Yeah. Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency (16:36.694) Yeah, I mean, that's the silver lining of it. And I mean, if any of my clients are listening to this or are going to listen to it, you know, you've heard it from me, it's probably gonna get worse before it gets better, right? Buckle up and like, this is why the conversations that we had a year ago, two years ago, three years ago, are so important as far as like building your brand, building a community of brand ambassadors, educating your previous, current and future customers as far as how they can actually Tim Brown (16:47.918) Mm-hmm. Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency (17:05.934) do the most for you as far as being your brand ambassadors with loyalty programs or referral programs, having a sticky name to that referral program. We got a client, his name's RainWorks. So we created the Make It Rain referral campaign, right? So you get X amount of dollars for every roof, here's a trackable link, show them, educate the customer how to share it, where to share it, next door, Facebook groups, on their Facebook, whatever. But if you're... Tim Brown (17:12.043) Yeah. Tim Brown (17:21.547) Oh, that's awesome. Tim Brown (17:34.51) That's incredible. Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency (17:35.542) If you're intentional about doing that systematically all the time, it's just a matter of time until you start making it rain for them and yourselves. And it's a little, I hate to say it this way, but I think this is how it's perceived. It's less important when everyone's in the street getting fat because things are coming so easy. But, but when, you know, shit really starts to shrink and constrain, that's where you get the fruits of the labor and the massive payoff. Because you know, if you're, your lead cost goes from Tim Brown (17:52.38) Oh yeah. Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency (18:02.758) $189 to $247, that sucks, but it sucks a lot less if you still have 30% of your business being referral as opposed to 17% of your business being referral, right? Yeah, it's hard out here in these streets, bruh. Tim Brown (18:14.359) Mm-hmm. Tim Brown (18:19.558) Dude, no, for real. No, this is so important, the things you're talking about, though. We can just hope that some people go. I mean, it's hard to say, because if you're one of those people that goes out of business, it's sad. But that will happen. That probably is happening. We're seeing people that are eminently employable unemployed. We're seeing things that are. indicator early indicators of kind of more. Pinched economic circumstances. So, yeah, I'm like hoping for a. Not a hard recession in 2024, but just like a little like. Just like a little bit more of like a. Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency (19:01.318) Cheers. Tim Brown (19:05.866) clear because I feel like when it's like unclear because this year was unclear, I feel like. And now it's getting a little bit more clear. There's a little bit unclear than people like do different things or you're, you know, like you're just not taking massive action when you should be right. Like those types of things. Um, and we talked to, we, so you and I had the podcast one year ago and we were talking about this and I think Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency (19:10.415) Mm-hmm. Tim Brown (19:31.05) I didn't think it was going to be as hardcore as I feel like we're seeing the look now. Maybe it's just a year behind what we thought it might do. I think I was hopeful and I was like, you know, it's a little bit more hopeful. But we were trying like I think like it's real. It's real. You know, hey. Yeah. Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency (19:45.947) Mm-hmm. Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency (19:53.078) It's not real. I'll say that. Tim Brown (19:56.982) Speaking of referrals though, you referred to us, McCormick Renovations in Pittsburgh. And they're working with us. So you gotta tell me what I can get you as a gift. Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency (20:05.144) Okay. Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency (20:13.518) This is under referral back, bruh. Tim Brown (20:16.182) Michael and I have, we didn't ever give each other any money for referrals. Like we've got a different game going, which was like, kind of like we were ramping up the gifts a little bit. Like, so I got somehow, like I think I got Mike a fridge, a Bill's fridge, and like a few other like trinkets. And then Bill, and then I don't know which order happened, but then Michael hit me back with a. a very nice bottle of cologne and I've been still using it. Now I think I'm addicted to it. So I'm probably gonna, it's very good. But basically like gifting is another strategy for referrals. So we might as well throw that real behind the scenes in here like. Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency (20:47.846) It's a great cologne. It's a good one to be addicted to. Yeah. Tim Brown (20:59.866) I think sometimes those are more impactful than money, you know, for certain people. You ask, you talk to certain people. I think it's people with money. And I'm not saying like Mike and I have a bunch of money, but like for instance, like people in the industry I've found in roofing industry, like it's definitely more impact because it's like kind of feels a little weird sometimes getting money because we're all trying to like in the in the industry, we're all trying to refer only the ones we really feel like are doing a good job and like So money feels a little weird because it feels like you're being affected by money. Sometimes. I don't know. I haven't had as much success with that for roofing industry referrals. Not, not to go too far into that. Cause I know this is for roofers, but. Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency (21:41.474) Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, gifts are great. Like, like. And I think it's worth noting, like there wasn't an agreement struck where it's like, hey, if you start giving me referrals, I'll do this for you. It's kind of something that happened just by virtue of like, you inspected our roofs, we inspected your roofs, and we approved of the work that you were doing and vice versa. You know, so when I gotten a referral from you, and it panned out, it's like, let me do something nice for Tim, right? Tim and his team, or advice versa, right? So it's like, And gifts, they hit a little bit different than money, for being honest. Like if you go to a 14 year old kid's birthday party and give them 50 bucks, they're gonna be happy. Maybe a 14 year old kid's not great. Maybe a 30 year old, right? If you got a friend who's 30 and it's his 30th birthday, if you give them 50 or 100 bucks, it's like, eh. But if you get them something personalized, it'll actually mean something to them. I think it goes a little bit longer, of a way. Tim Brown (22:17.874) Yeah, like, think about it. Tim Brown (22:34.802) Yeah, I think that probably applies like my sister-in-law is a realtor and no amount of money, she's doing very well. And no amount of money, my brother is a stay at home dad and he loves it. And he's like, I like anyways, but he... Or like if I gave them a hundred, like $500, I just don't think he's like, they're even gonna like, they probably won't even open the envelope for a whole month or two, you know what I mean? But if you gave them a pat, like something based on what I knew he was interested in, if I gave him, fuck it, I won't even say a huge thing. I'll say like a bunch of pool toys for the kids for their third home in Florida. Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency (23:09.466) Yeah. Tim Brown (23:25.706) they would open it up and be like, that was so thoughtful. And we're so excited and we're going to bring those and have a great time in Florida. You know what I mean? Like, so just certain things, when you put it on a monetary level, I don't think anyone's going to be offended, but there's a, like kind of a friend level. This, the book that goes into this stuff in real depth is giftology. There's some... Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency (23:52.037) Mm-hmm. Tim Brown (23:54.134) relationships, if they can live on the gift side of things, it's like almost more impact, like you're saying. I think that's a great book. If anyone hasn't checked that out, check out Giftology. It's a very fun thing to get into, and it does take work, but it is fun. Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency (24:12.83) Yeah, and I think that I think where most people fail on like the referral side is making it a systematic every single time approach like this is our process for educating the consumer like that this exists and that they have an opportunity to earn and show and then Show them the opportunity like take that opportunity to show them the transparency right like we can actually track it. We can show you you're going to compensate and here's what you can expect. I think that's one part of where people fail a little bit. Tim Brown (24:23.499) Yeah. Tim Brown (24:41.178) Oh yeah, yeah for sure. Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency (24:42.684) like actually like paying people and going through with it. Unfortunately, you know, you like, you gotta keep track of this shit. Like if you're gonna put it out there, otherwise it's gonna have the exact opposite effect on the brand that you want, right? The idea is that we could build goodwill by looking out for people that are looking out for us and that compounds very, very quickly. Tim Brown (24:48.394) Yeah. Tim Brown (24:55.854) Mm-hmm. Tim Brown (24:59.572) Yeah. Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency (25:03.514) And hey, there's financial gain from it, which never hurts in a capitalist society, but go ahead and not pay people for referring you and see how quickly that fucks your game up. That's a problem. But there's like some... Tim Brown (25:11.462) Yeah. Oh yeah, there's some psychology in there. Like the, there's the, they talked about when you pay like your kid to read a book, weirdly it has the opposite effect sometimes because like, especially it has a very, very negative effect if you ever don't pay them. Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency (25:33.634) Yeah. Tim Brown (25:34.77) It will literally stop them in their tracks. Like the Pavlov's dog effect, if there's one time where it doesn't happen and you had been, it like has very, like the studies on that are crazy. That has a very negative effect on them ever reading. So your kid will just stop reading. Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency (25:51.941) Right. And you know, this guy will stop referring and he'll probably blast down Google for being a crook. So we don't want that. That will have a detrimental effect to our brand. Don't do that. Make sure that you pay your people for referrals if you say you're gonna pay them. And you get creative with it, right? Like, I don't know, like, what kind of gifts can you give people like custom doormat? If you're doing referral program, and you're giving them 250 bucks a roof, get like, get custom visa cards made like with picture of your team or picture of something like it's an opportunity for you to Tim Brown (26:19.208) Mmm, that's cool. Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency (26:22.581) them right which like Tim Brown (26:24.13) I think like one big one that like you could do for, you know, insurance agents or realtors or people with a brand too. Like I think like their brand is huge, right? Like if you get their brand on like a bottle of whiskey or their brand in a like cake or their brain or like for some reason people love that and also you might get an additional benefit of like the social media posts, you know, that type of thing. So like. Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency (26:35.779) Yeah. Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency (26:51.011) Right. Tim Brown (26:54.218) for B2B referrals, that's a huge one. Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency (26:59.126) Yeah, right. Like if I sent him in a sun shirt, how often he's gonna wear it. But if I send him some dope hook swag, which I haven't so shame on me. You'd be much more excited about it, right? Because it's your thing. I mean, it just it just makes sense. Just makes sense. Tim Brown (27:14.186) Yeah, what would you, what do you really wear a lot? Like, what do you, what would you like, you know, just hypothetically, you know, like you think about like, what is something somebody really actually would enjoy wearing? Like I did try, I tried with somebody in the industry and I did like a, their logo on the back of a jacket. I didn't think they really wear it. But you know, you gotta take shots. You gotta spend a little money on these things and take some shots. It's, it's, Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency (27:21.622) My heart on my sleeve. Tim Brown (27:43.31) probably going to be the ones that you go a little bit hard on. But I didn't mean to say hard on. Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency (27:48.681) What about like company branded cougar paws? Tim Brown (27:51.746) Oh yeah, that'd be sweet. That would be super cool. Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency (27:55.714) It would have to be more so for the owner operator, not the guy that's removed, right? So that would know your audience and it would be relevant to somebody like that. Tim Brown (27:58.27) Yeah. Alright. Tim Brown (28:03.966) Yeah. Think about like, if you did like a Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency (28:07.246) Or you can buy him a bunch of branded synthetic underlayment. Tim Brown (28:13.63) Oh, I've thought about that a lot, Michael, by the way. I've thought about, we, I looked into pricing and everything. The, it's like $20,000 for like the minimum order on branded underlayment. Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency (28:16.41) Ha ha ha. Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency (28:27.331) You got it, ball out. Tim Brown (28:27.382) And I'm like, well, okay, I, yeah, yeah. Exactly. I mean, no, it could be a strategy though. Like as far as like talking to roofers, think about the, what are their branded items with some, like if you're talking to realtors and insurance, like, could you do like their logo on the inside of a suit jacket, the liner? Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency (28:49.319) Mmm, yeah. Tim Brown (28:49.518) I feel like the only problem with that is like the, but like something like a little bit more creative where like they would like be really proud of it and excited. Like those are the types of swag items. Obviously if you get them like a hundred pens, they're probably gonna be like kind of happy, but it's not like, you know what? A hundred pens would probably work, but you know, the point is, is like trying to do creative stuff. So it's remarkable, right? Like we're trying to do stuff that like kind of gets stuck in their head and they want to talk about. Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency (29:03.93) Pants suck. Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency (29:16.719) Hmm. Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency (29:19.898) real estate agents and insurance agents. Tim Brown (29:23.154) Even like, I was saying like three quarters zip, like what could you do that's like a little higher? Embroidery is always cute. Like if you could do embroidered items. And then it's like kind of getting your partners for this stuff. Like it's like, can you... Can you roll it out kind of quick? Like, can you get something to somebody in like three weeks? Like, if you have a partner on embroidery, if you have somebody that's, like, then you can roll stuff out quicker. You could do 10 quarter zips for your referral partner versus like bigger companies might need like 100 for a run or something like that. So I just think it's like, yeah. I'm trying to do. Right now, I don't think I can share my screen, but I'm working on a best damn roof. Okay, you got the good, good Riverside hub. I think mine is limited. I'm trying to do a, here, I'll share my screen here. Window, entire screen, uh-oh. Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency (30:13.891) You can share. Tim Brown (30:34.99) Let's see, oh, here it is. So I'm trying to do a little label for Fireball whiskey for a roofing process. And then we're going to hand out these little bottles of Fireball. But I'm trying to co-brand it with BDR. Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency (30:47.343) Mm-hmm. Tim Brown (31:03.294) So referrals are fire. And then maybe the back is like our three unique value propositions or something. Because he's going to be there playing music in our booth. So that was like our activation style thing for roofing process. So we'll see how that goes. I mean, I know something. Hey, you coming? Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency (31:10.262) Yeah. That's it. Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency (31:22.414) Nice. Maybe maybe I'll come by and drink a couple bottles. Probably not. Yeah. Baby's doing like a week, so. Tim Brown (31:29.21) Oh, really? OK. Oh, OK. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That happened to me last RoofCon where there's a baby in the middle. And like, I know, like. I wanted to be there pretty bad. It was like a little like I was a little bit like, yeah, that looks fun as shit. I was watching videos come out, I was like, oh, man. But, you know, I think this year might have been a little bit better than last year on RoofCon. But. Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency (31:58.798) Yeah, that's good. Looked like fun from the outside looking in. Tim Brown (32:02.472) Yeah. Well, it's always it's a spoiler alert. It's usually more fun outside looking in the FOMO thing happens. Tim Brown (32:14.55) Cause last year, I think, I mean, like, I don't think it's a secret. Vendors were a little like, eh, with. Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency (32:18.626) Well, we lost him, but I want to take a moment to thank all of you who have taken a minute to take a listen to our conversation. You guys are the real MVPs. Once again, shout out to Rufor, and we'll see you guys again soon.

In this episode, Mike empowers his followers by allowing them to determine the content. He solicits questions from his audience, spanning topics from the future of AI in marketing to inquiries about Mike's Admirable hair.   Interested in learning more about Roofr? Get your first roof measurement report for free: https://shorturl.at/quCQ5   Contact us : [email protected] Let's Connect! ==== ==== ==== Website: https://bit.ly/3NQXXKK Facebook: https://bit.ly/3xH8VaT Linkedin: https://bit.ly/3RWTSyr   Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency (00:00.338) Welcome back to another episode of Mission Control Podcast brought to you by Mike Stearns and the SEND Digital Agency, sponsored by the team at Roofer. If you need clean and pristine proposals, instant roof quotes, roof measurements, hit up the team at Roofer. They're fantastic. There will be a link below. Go ahead and click it. Tell them I sent you. So I wanted to ask you guys a quick question. And that question is, what did Ben Franklin feel when he discovered electricity? Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency (00:31.054) Believe it or not, he was shot. Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency (00:35.79) Another great dad joke, another one in the books. So I made a post and I wanted to give people an opportunity to ask me questions and to give you guys answers to questions that you may have, personal, marketing. We got a blend of both, they didn't disappoint. So the first question was by Corey Combs and he asked, does Bigfoot really exist? I'm gonna go with no. If we spent all this time on energy and effort trying to find Bigfoot and he hasn't turned up yet, I'm guessing he's not around. But I've been wrong before. So David Jared Cohen asks, what's your opinion on Google Ads versus Google Local Services from an ROI perspective? So if I'm running a company and there's Google Guaranteed, Google Local Services, I tell everybody that's the first thing that you should do. Regardless of if you do ads or not, you should 100% do Google Local Services. They provide a fixed cost per lead model. It's very transparent. It has its own little CRM where you can track the leads that are coming in. You can dispute ones that aren't necessarily legitimate opportunities. and it's usually gonna be at a lower cost per lead than other marketing avenues like Google Ads. The one issue that you might run into with Google Local Services is that there's only so much that you can do to influence your placement. So if you're being placed seventh or eighth on the list out of 15, 20, 50 different contractors, it's very likely that you're not going to get a ton of volume and there's really not much you can do outside of fully filling out your Google Local Services profile. documenting or dispositioning the accounts in the Google provided dashboard, and getting reviews to that very specific Google Local Services page to influence where you're going to be positioned. Conversely, if you're running a Google ad campaign and you're noticing that you're getting lackluster results, you can increase your bid, your target bid for different keywords to make sure, hey, if we're showing up third or fourth at the bottom of the page for Google ads, we can then increase our bid to make sure that we're showing up top. which then obviously manipulates the amount of opportunities that you're gonna get by way of visibility. So that's the one benefit that Google Ads has over Google Local Services. But I will say, even if you're not getting a ton of leads from Google Local Services, one massive missed opportunity is leveraging that in your sales process, in your branding, that check mark with Google Guaranteed, a lot of people have inherent trust in Google and that's why, quite honestly, I have a company. That's a really good thing for us and it's a good thing for you guys as well. Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency (03:04.126) If you're educating the consumer as to what it means to be Google guaranteed and be part of Google local services program is, Hey, like we're, we're vetted by Google. They recommend us. The reason they do is we passed a background check. We have all of our appropriate licenses and insurances to make you sure you guys are covered. They actually guarantee our work up to a certain amount. These are very strong. These are very strong value propositions to somebody who's making a purchase from your company, especially when with, you know, contracting specifically, a lot of the times, Credibility is called into question. So this could be a great way to develop a rapport, to strengthen your relationship with the prospect, and ultimately differentiate yourself from other people, even ones that are Google guaranteed, because a lot of the times nobody talks about it. So that would be my answer for you, David. Derek Daniels, most important question, why didn't you run with us this morning? So I'm a part of a run club, run club 54. I make a cameo appearance every 30 days or so. We do, I don't know, somewhere between five and eight miles, depending on how. Phil feels. So I didn't go this week because I took a knee to the calf a couple weeks ago and I'm still not even close to 100%. It was pretty bad. Some significant bruising. Lack of... I'm not able to run. That's why I didn't come. And I'm sorry, I'm sorry Derek. I miss you and I'll see you again soon. Jordan Harrison, how do you get your hair to look so damn good? Well, it's not one thing, it's a lot of things. I take care of it, you know, consistent shampooing and conditioning, routine maintenance, so I go and get haircuts, hair products, you know, like a texturizing cream. Also, I find a nice balance between happiness, anxiety, and stress, and I feel like those are the three main ingredients. And if you can strike that balance, you too could have hair like this, Jordan. Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency (05:02.698) uh... eric cohen why did the chicken cross the road he still trying to figure that one out less than men when you get there let me know because haven't scratched my head on this one for quite some time christopher scoville when you're building a website for client are you building it from the perspective of what the consumers looking for the most basic level uh... parentheses needs and wants of the home service being offered or building it from the perspective of what your client wants ego and proudness of their company? That's a really good question, Mr. Scoville. So typically when we come into a situation, we'll talk to a prospective client or a client that signed and we have a process to go through. In many instances, we don't run into this scenario. It's typically like, you guys know what to do, so please do it for us, make us something great. But in the event that it's somebody who has very particular things that they want, we'll typically advise like, hey, based off of our history of doing this, in our track record of success, these are the things that we would want to do. This is the way that we would want to do it. And these are the reasons why. Because a lot of the times, if I have an opinion about something, it's typically because I feel like I know enough about it to have an opinion, but my opinion is not always right. And somebody can educate me as to why they would do something a different way. And a lot of the times that'll be enough to move me off of my opinion. And it's the same thing I find with most clients that we deal with. So I think it's an opportunity to educate. We have certain things that we incorporate into web designs that we know work for certain. And we strongly encourage people to allow us to do those things, but then there's some things that are kind of just less important from a user experience perspective. And if a client really wants it, ultimately it's their site. We'll encourage them to do things the way that we found to be most impactful, but ultimately, it's their service that they're paying for. So. We'll acquiesce if need be. Jonathan Burrows, who's the best roofer in Tampa? That's easy, Salish are roofing in exteriors, not even close. Dema Liss, how can I lower my marketing expenses to almost nothing using AI? That's easy, Dema, all you gotta do is pull up ChatGPT, ask them this question. Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency (07:24.066) Get a bunch of content and consistently make, you know, dozens of pages on your website. You'll be ranking number one for everything, everywhere. No problem. And you'll never have to hire a marketing company again. Diego Dante, my guy Diego, how you doing, man? What really happens in area 51? I've got no idea, man. I wish I knew. And again, this is gonna be one of those things where if you find out before me, let me know, because I too have wondered this from time to time. I'll never claim to know something that I don't, and that's one I just don't have a great answer for. Ty Cobb-Backer, what's up Ty? As someone who regularly interviews experts in these areas, what key insights have you gained that have made a significant impact on your own life or business? Whew, that's a good one. Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency (08:15.862) Well, you know, one thing that is for certain is, you know, I've always been big on systems and processes and hearing a lot of feedback from folks that I have on the show and how their business has grown and having their perspective of things, how things have been, how things are now and the impact that those things have made always keeps me at a heightened level of awareness as far as like the importance and magnitude of having sound systems and processes for sure. A lot of it otherwise is perspective, right? You meet and talk to a lot of different people that have completely different upbringings, maybe something's in common, maybe nothing in common. And just hearing like the grind, the struggle, and the perseverance that people have when approaching their business, like, you know, and where they started, where they are now, how they got there, and the journey. It's a lot of the times easy to look at people just that are successful and like, oh, he's successful. but you don't know the back story, so you can't have a full sense of appreciation. I won't say that you can't, but it makes it harder to fully appreciate what they've done. But when you hear of somebody who was working a daytime job and then, I was on with Eric Reno, he's like, man, I'd go over, stop at a restaurant, do a quick bird bath and then go work at night as he was getting his company off the ground and kind of all the blood, sweat and tears that have. rolled into the success of some of these people. I mean, it's amazing and it's inspiring, honestly, right? So I can kind of pull that inspiration into productivity within myself and my company and it helps keep me going. And for that, I'm grateful for everyone that's been a part of the show and yeah, thank you. Let's see here, Dan Antonelli, what do you do when you have a client with weak branding that you know will adversely affect conversions? Woo, Dan, coming in hot. I like it. That's a great question. Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency (10:15.638) So typically, our sales process is a bit different, right? We typically, we do a consultation where we go over a ton of things within the client's business. Very little has to do with like a send digital, doing marketing and advertising for the customer. That's maybe 10 to 15% of the meeting. The other couple hours are kind of spent on like, hey, what kind of CRM are you using? What kind of automations are you using? What are you doing? As far as getting like co-op branding from your manufacturer, what is the hierarchy of your company, roles and responsibilities, have you fully optimized your Google business profile and those types of things. We talk about branding, like what their brand is and what they're doing to build their brand along the way. At the end of the day, we're not a branding agency. We do digital advertising, we focus predominantly on custom websites, Google Ads and SEO. our side of the street clean is doing everything that we can uh... to make a client successful and what i will say is that we've had we've had plenty of clients over the course of i've had plenty of clients over the course of last decade where they've had what objectively would be considered weak brand and have been successful however there is absolutely no denying the impact that having a strong brand what it will do for conversions uh... and your long-term cost per acquired lead Um, in having a sticky brand is very, very powerful. So we do our best to lead people down the right road as far as like, Hey, like if for me, this is what I do. Um, unfortunately, you know, with like investing into brand, there's a lot of kickback with contractors or not kickback pushback, uh, with contractors. So, you know, when you talk about spending 10, 15, 20, $25,000 on, you know, the, a brand kit or the things associated with the brand, things like logo, content wraps, things like that. Um, I don't sell it every day, but when I've thrown out recommendations, a lot of the times we get pushback on it. I think that's an opportunity for the industry to grow quite honestly, is to be more cognizant of what kind of brand do you have out there? What's the messaging that people are receiving when they hear of your company? What are people like? I think a brand is like your business's reputation, right? If I take my reputation, what I say about me doesn't really matter. What I'm more interested in is... Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency (12:36.182) What are the conversations that other people are having about me when I'm not around? What do people think of me? And I often think of like Brandon the same way, like, you know, when, when people are talking about a contractor and they're not in the room or somebody's asking a group of people about an experience that they had with a contractor, what exactly are people talking about? What are they saying about you and what is the narrative? And there's, there's a lot of things that we can do to control that, right? Like, what kind of logo do you have? Where's that logo being placed? What kind of messaging do you have? Do you have a slogan? What is the experience that customers are having when they're dealing with your company? And like that starts at the inception of a phone call, right? That start, you know, that continues on down the customer lifecycle when they're being visited by a sales rep. There's a lot of things that roll into brand. And I think that the industry would benefit as well as the customers that you're servicing. If we took you know, the brand and brand development a little bit more seriously for sure. It's not one of those things that's as easily quantifiable as far as ROI, but you know, there's a lot of studies on it as far as the impact that it makes. And my guess is anyone listening to this has been influenced to make a purchase decision, buying decision based off of branding for sure. Maybe even today. So that'd be how I answer that, Dan. Thanks for the question, man. Chuck Allen, who does your hair? Maybe the best haircut in the industry. So. I've got two guys, my guy Colby and then my guy Robbie over at Slawich Cut and Shave. They're in North Tonawana, New York. So if you're in Buffalo and you're hearing this, go check them out. They do some shit. It's good. Michael John Palmieri, how do I hit a 20 yard flop shot with backspin? I'm not, I'm not an authority on all things golf. In fact, if you were golfing with me, I might shoot an 88, I might shoot 110, but I can, I can't tell you what the right way to do it is, but I tell you what I would do. I'd keep the ball far in my stance. I would open up my stance a little bit. I'd grab a 60 degree and I would just swing it. I would commit to the swing. A lot of times when I don't commit to the swing, because it's such a short distance, I end up sculling it 50 yards past the green. And that's not good. That's not what you want. So that's the best that I could give you, Michael. Hey, if it works, let me know. I want you to go try it and then I want you to report back and I'll play it out for you. Katie Honan. Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency (15:02.122) Why are you so extra? I mean, I don't know how to answer it. It's just who I am, Katie. And I hope you appreciate me for that. Pete McKendrick, what's the best part of living in Buffalo? Aside from my family being here, I would say the food. We have incredible food here. Diversity amongst the food is incredible. You want Mediterranean, you want chicken wings, you want pizza, you want Italian, you want a good steak. We've got it all. So if you're thinking about coming to Buffalo, make sure you do some research or shoot me a DM. I can give you some really good recommendations because I eat a lot of food so that you can have the best dining experience possible. And then obviously while you're up here, shoot up to Niagara Falls. It's one of the wonders of the world for a reason. It's a great place. Well, not outside Niagara Falls, just the actual falls themselves are cool. Bring Mace. Why is your hair always perfect? That's from Nick Capobianco. I just wake up like this, Nick. Let's see. Matthew Danskin, does Santa know you left the workshop? That's Matt alluding to the fact that I'm much shorter than him, and I don't know if it's that I'm shorter, if he's freakishly tall. I responded with a gif of the Jolly Green Giant, to which he responded with a little person falling out of a car. And I'll tell you what, though. I got a lot of love for Matt. Even though Matthew here is attacking me being vertically challenged. It's all good, Matt. I saw you on TikTok one time, shooting some basketballs. Maybe we get a basketball game going, huh? I mean, I might be short, but I can ball. Let me know. And if you guys are looking for ways to grow your business, reach out to Matt. He has some great things as far as developing relationships that will lend to sustainable growth, and I've seen it work, so. Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency (16:58.922) Last but not least, Wes Arnold, has Google local contractor gotten better results or worse than the last year? From what I've seen, I don't know if worse would be the right word, but gun to my head between worse or better, I'd say worse for most people because year over year it's gotten more saturated, meaning that if three years ago you had 10 contractors in your market that were Google guaranteed, now you've got 20, 30, 40. And with that usually comes diminished opportunity. I've been saying this for years, like get Google Local Services yesterday because the price is only going to go up. If you think about it, they are a business. They're very smart businesses, Google. They do billions and tens of billions of dollars in ad revenue every year. So the average cost per lead that we see on Google ads, right around 150 bucks, 200 bucks, depending on what market you're in, 125 bucks. But it's between 100 and 200 bucks, let's call it. And when Google Local Services started... You were getting leads for 40, 50 bucks for replacement. It just doesn't make sense for them to consistently do that. So as it's evolved, I've seen prices increase as far as a cost per lead basis. And I've seen a lot more contractors participate in it. Again, one thing that you may or may not be doing in my experience, if I'm going with numbers here, you're probably not doing is, is using it in your branding, in your presentations, talking to the customers about the fact that you are Google guaranteed. and leveraging that to ultimately get them to the finish line. So if you're not getting the results that you want from a lead perspective, make sure you're getting the secondary result from it. So with that being said, those are all the questions that we had. Really appreciate you guys tuning in. Thanks again for the team at Rufor for help making this happen. And again, thanks for you all listening.