Episode 301-Freedom Always Finds a Way Also Available OnSearchable Podcast Transcript Gun Lawyer — Episode Transcript Page – 1 – of 12 Gun Lawyer — Episode 301 Transcript SUMMARY KEYWORDS loopholes, firearm law, NFA trust, switchblade knives, forced reset triggers, machine guns, assault firearm ban, Third Circuit Court, SCOTUS, New Jersey, Second Amendment, gun rights, expungement, surveillance technology, AI. SPEAKERS Speaker 3, Evan Nappen, Teddy Nappen Evan Nappen 00:19 I’m Evan Nappen. Teddy Nappen 00:20 and I’m Teddy Nappen. Evan Nappen 00:22 And welcome to Gun Lawyer. One of the things that I’ve observed through my 40-plus years in the area of firearm law is how important loopholes are to our freedom. You see, loopholes are simply freedom finding a way. Loopholes have proven over and over again to be the penetrator to breaking freedom out of its imprisonment by the oppressive governments like the state of New Jersey that constantly work at oppressing our Second Amendment rights. We’ve seen loopholes have this effect in different areas, and I think we’re going to now see even more interesting approaches as we win on the various case law challenges. It opens the door for further challenges and things that get covered or not covered by way of various loopholes, end up getting the freedoms that we desire. Evan Nappen 01:49 So, let me give you some examples that have previously occurred, just to show you not necessarily New Jersey itself, but how loopholes can get freedom. For example, at one point under the National Firearms Act, there was a requirement that Chief Law Enforcement (CLE) officers had to approve applications. And if the chief law enforcement officer did not sign off on it, you could not then possess whatever you were going for under the National Firearms Act, whether it was a suppressor or machine gun or shortbow rifle. Whatever it was, the forms needed this CLE sign off, and for any reason they could deny it. There was no way to even appeal it, and you were stuck. It got realized that if you formed what was called an NFA Trust, there was no sign-off on trusts. There was no CLE sign-off on trusts. And that became the preferred method of acquiring NFA. Because not only was there no Chief Law Enforcement officer sign off, but also, you maintained privacy even further from doing it by way of a trust. So, 10,000 trusts were later filed with the federal government, and they finally put forward Rule 41P that got rid of the requirement for having a Chief Law Enforcement officer sign off at all. Whereas prior to that, they wouldn’t get rid of it, but the loophole paved the way. So, when it comes to NFA, they’re simply given notice, but there’s no requirement that they approve it. Page – 2 – of 12 Evan Nappen 04:07 And you see again, for example, prohibitions nationally throughout various states that existed on switchblades. Switchblade knives being a knife in which the blade comes out automatically because of a button or other device in the handle of the knife. The assisted opener was invented, where there’s no button in the handle but merely pushing the blade, and the blade still opens automatically. But with no button or other device in the handle of the knife. So, you could, in fact, open the knife automatically, just not without that button. It got around the federal switchblade laws and State laws. Even now you can have an assisted opener in New Jersey, even though there’s technically a prohibition on switchblades. And what we saw was many states, after these knives have become so prolific out there and commonly owned, that the switchblade laws have been repealed in the overwhelming majority of states. Now, New Jersey has not yet repealed their switchblade law, but it is on death’s door, frankly, as well. We have Second Amendment challenges, and nationally, there’s so many actual automatic knives now out there, due to the understanding of the loopholes to the Federal Switchblade Act as to how they could still be produced, how they could still be sold. Not in states that have specific bans, but they’re prolific. And that challenge is underway as well. Again, loopholes paving the way. Evan Nappen 06:11 I think what we’re looking at now is another battleground of loopholes that are going to come in very much in our fight for legalizing, eventually, machine guns. As you know, we’re all very excited about New Jersey’s assault firearm ban going down in flames as unconstitutional, and magazines going down as well with it. With that fantastic decision out of the Third Circuit Court of Appeals that we’ve discussed. Of course, that now opens the door for further challenge. The U.S. Supreme Court, SCOTUS, have granted certiorari on the issue of assault firearms under the Viramontes and Grant cases. So, by next June or so, we’ll have federal case law on it. I’m extremely optimistically looking forward to that decision, and I think the stars have really lined up. Even New Jersey’s decision is going to aid the U.S. Supreme Court in its decision. And, in all likelihood, I mean, nothing’s ever certain, but it seems to be extremely in our favor. The antis are crying about it and essentially throwing the towel in for the most part, realizing that their entire gambit of banning semi-autos is going to die, and thank God it will. But of course, that now opens up including when you. Teddy Nappen 07:48 I will say. Evan Nappen 07:52 Go ahead. Teddy Nappen 07:56 Well, what I was going to say is that I think we need to take a page out of the antis and a lot of the progressive movement. We need to push further and further. Like, don’t give up the ground because now we’ve won the battle on the assault firearms. Evan Nappen 08:12 Oh, we’re not giving up. Page – 3 – of 12 Teddy Nappen 08:12 Keep pushing to that extent. Evan Nappen 08:14 Plow forward hard, and we’re going to. One of the ways that we’re going to do this, I also believe, is with incremental important fights and with loopholes on our side. Loopholes. Again it’s that freedom finding a way. One of the most interesting loopholes out there when it comes to machine guns. Now keep in mind. We have a separate fight going on from the Big Beautiful Bill that eliminated the tax on NFA items of suppressors, short barrel rifles, any other weapon, etc. Now, they did not remove the tax yet on machine guns. But in the Big Beautiful Lawsuit, we’re challenging, as we’ve discussed in other shows, the very jurisdiction of the NFA. If there’s no tax, there should be no law. If we’re successful there, then the machine gun ban can die federally by simply in a reconciliation bill removing the tax on machine guns. You don’t have to even repeal machine gun law to simply get rid of the tax. So, that’s what can happen. And that can avoid the filibuster in and of itself because that can just be done in a reconciliation bill because that’s directly on taxation. Evan Nappen 09:33 But in a separate attack that we have, in a separate way of going at this, is the idea of the incrementalism that loopholes create. One of these great loopholes that exists when it comes to machine guns is what is called Forced Reset Triggers (FRTs), and these have really come a long way. Now. FRTs, as they’re known, make it so that the trigger is reset with force, so that you can very quickly fire again your shot, in which a shot is still required to be pressed for each pull of the trigger, but the forcing of the reset makes it so that you can fire extremely fast. So fast that, for all intents and purposes, it duplicates the speed of fully-automatic fire. But speed of fire is not the federal law. It is based upon having to pull the trigger for each shot. Evan Nappen 10:54 And in the Fifth Circuit, FRTs, in the case out of the Fifth Circuit were found not to be machine guns. They do not make semi-automatic firearms machine guns. So, under federal law, you see that FRTs are very popular now in many, many states. They have evolved to where, for example, FRTs on AR-15 platforms are now created in what are called three-position safety FRTs. The three-position safety, for those of you familiar with how an AR-15 works, the safety on ARs will rotate to three positions. You have the “fire”, then you have “safe”, and then you have what’s called the “happy switch”, where on the complete roll around, it will go full auto. Well, they now have FRTs that, in the third position, will put the AR in a forced reset trigger position. You can then fire at that very rapid rate of fire. Essentially making it indistinguishable from fully automatic fire in effect, but mechanically, the trigger is in fact being pulled technically for each shot. These FRTs have developed to where they’re extremely reliable. It’s quite an amazing innovation, so that you can have an AR-15 that essentially functions like a fully automatic AR-15, but it’s not fully automatic. It utilizes the three position that an M16 would in fact use or an M4 that’s fully auto type AR would use. But it doesn’t technically fire fully automatic because each shot is being pulled for every shot being fired. Even though it’s done by way of this forced reset. Page – 4 – of 12 Evan Nappen 13:26 So, the interesting question is: are forced reset triggers legal in New Jersey? Let’s explore that question right now. When you look at New Jersey’s ban on machine guns, New Jersey prohibits machine guns under N.J.S. 2C:39-5, specifically under subsection a., which says: Any person who knowingly has in his possession a machine gun or any instrument or device adaptable for use as a machine gun, without being licensed to do so as provided under 58-5, which is the machine gun license, is guilty of a crime of the second degree. Now that 58-5 license actually is license to carry and possess machine guns and assault firearms. Oh, wait a minute! If the assault firearm law is unconstitutional, and the license for an assault firearm is the same license for a machine gun, oh my! Look what door has just opened in New Jersey when it comes to getting a machine gun / assault firearm license. There’s a path to be taken there, but that’s a discussion for another day. Evan Nappen 14:59 Let’s stay focused on FRTs. The machine gun is defined in New Jersey under N.J.S. 2C:39-1. section i. Under the 39-1.i definition of machine gun, it says. “Machine gun means any firearm, mechanism or instrument not requiring that the trigger be pressed for each shot and having a reservoir, belt or other means for storing and carrying ammunition which can be loaded into the firearm, mechanism or instrument and fired therefrom. A machine gun also shall include, without limitation, any firearm with a trigger crank attached.” Okay, well pressed for each shot. Well, guess what? With a Forced Reset Trigger, you are pressing the trigger for each shot. Now, before you get too excited about that, New Jersey, of course, has taken a position, which we’ll discuss in a moment, about how they’re viewing that definition. However, the fight is on. The fight is on. Evan Nappen 16:12 But let’s continue. First of all, is an FRT a trigger crank? Well, a trigger crank is defined under section ff. of 39-1. It says a trigger crank means any device or instrument to be attached to a firearm that repeatedly activates the trigger of the firearm through the use of a lever or other part that is turned in a circular motion. It does not include any weapon initially designed and manufactured to fire through the use of a crank or lever. So, Gatling guns are legal in New Jersey because they’re designed from the beginning with a crank. A crank that you attach to a semi-automatic firearm is specifically banned and placed within the machine gun definition. But an FRT is not a crank. Evan Nappen 17:13 What else does New Jersey prohibit? It prohibits a “bump stock”. What’s a “bump stock”? Well, that’s any device or instrument for a firearm that increases the rate of fire achievable with the firearm by using energy from the recoil of the firearm to generate a reciprocating action that facilitates repeated activation of the trigger. And as you know, bump stocks are stocks, and they utilize the recoil in that way. A Forced Reset Trigger isn’t working in that mechanism either, and that can be demonstrated as well. So, cranks or bump stocks themselves, mere possession of them, are prohibited under N.J.S. 2C:39-3, subsection l. You have separate prohibitions on those items. Furthermore, the law states that a conviction for possessing them doesn’t merge with a conviction for possession of an assault firearm. However, possession of an assault firearm is unconstitutionally going to go down the tubes, as we know, from that great decision out of the Third Circuit Court of Appeals. So, we’re simply dealing with cranks and bump stocks as standalone prohibited items, but not assault firearms. Page – 5 – of 12 Evan Nappen 18:35 But the question becomes: Does New Jersey still ban Forced Reset Triggers? Interestingly, when AI is asked about this, when AI is questioned, for fun, I thought I’d ask AI about it. And what AI says, particularly Gemini, if you’re interested, it says the state prohibits them by treating them as machine guns and machine gun conversions under New Jersey statutes 39-1 and 39-5. Then it goes to cite New Jersey’s machine gun classification and statutory provisions and enforcement position. Okay, let’s look at each one. Machine gun classification. New Jersey law enforcement and the Attorney General’s office classify FRTs as illegal machine gun conversion devices because they enable semi-automatic weapons to fire multiple rounds continuously with a single function of the trigger. Okay, guess what? We have a fight on our hands with that. That is their position. Keep that in mind. If you’re caught with one in New Jersey, the state will make that claim. However, as you can see from the actual definition, we have excellent grounds for arguing that they are wrong. We don’t have case law establishing it yet, but loopholes help find the way. Evan Nappen 20:07 Statutory provisions. They’re claiming that 39-5 prohibits possession of machine gun or any device that converts a firearm to a machine gun. Well, we just determined that it’s about pressing a trigger, and the trigger still is pressed with an FRT. So, that part of AI seems to be no good. I brought that up in my continuing conversation with AI, and AI responded. You point out, which I am pointing out, that a central distinction that gun rights advocate and federal courts have leveraged to argue FRTs are not machine guns under the Federal Firearms Act, a machine gun is defined as a weapon that fires automatically by a single function of the trigger. Because an FRT physically resets and forces a shooter to apply distinct pressure for each shot, federal courts like the Fifth Circuit have ruled FRTs require a separate trigger function per round and thus fall outside the federal definition. Evan Nappen 21:09 However, New Jersey law applies a different statutory standard and circumvents the single function trigger loophole. Really? I thought it just said distinct pressure for each shot. What the hell is AI even talking about? Well, they’re claiming that New Jersey has different statutory language. They’re saying machine gun means any firing mechanism, not requiring that the trigger be pressed for each shot. AI makes that bold. Yet we know that it does. So, where are they coming from with this? Well, they’re giving a legal interpretation that the state’s legal argument tries to distinguish between pressed and pulled. The state’s position is that the New Jersey Attorney General and state prosecutors argue that with an FRT, the shooter applies one continuous undivided downward pressure with their finger. Because the firearm’s internal recoil energy forcibly resets the trigger against the finger, the shooter does not deliberately release and consciously press the trigger again for each shot. Evan Nappen 22:21 However, they’re saying, and again, it says conclusion. Therefore, the state views the continuous rearward pressure of a single finger squeeze as a single continuous act, meaning the shooter is not actively pressing the trigger for each individual shot. Even though what’s happening is what? The trigger is being pressed for each shot. Ha! Battleground, right there, my friends. Battleground. Not determined yet. I don’t think you want to be the test case, but the fight is there to be had. Page – 6 – of 12 Evan Nappen 22:54 Aggressive multi-state litigation. New Jersey actively defends this strict interpretation, and yes, they will. The state led a coalition of 16 states urging that the Fifth Circuit reverse federal rollbacks on FRT bans. Explicitly stating that FRTs are new, but mechanical principles which they operate are not. They say the state maintains FRTs are fundamentally designed to evade automatic weapon restrictions and fall squarely within the state’s sweeping definition of rapid fire modification. Well, you’re right. They do evade it. They evade it by following what the law requires and finding the loophole that finds the freedom. The argument is there. Evan Nappen 23:42 Then, in my questioning of AI, it said you said, “Does New Jersey ban FRTs, and if so, how? They say yes. New Jersey bans FTRs. The state prohibits them by treating them as machine guns. We’ve gone through again in this loophole of a loop, how and why. Then AI puts forward Senate Bill 2097 specifically bans binary triggers as well. Well, guess what? That didn’t pass. Ah, but they claim that binary triggers falls under the same legal arguments because you’re releasing, not pressing. You can see the battle. What makes this so fascinating, my friends, is that this is now going to become a hotter topic for New Jersey. As we see the death of the 36-year-old assault firearm ban and semi-automatics not being treated in any different way. We then see these fronts, these battlefronts opening up for challenging New Jersey’s machine gun definition, which can occur through their still existing licensing law, and can occur through the battle of the loopholes under FRTs and binary triggers. We are seeing glorious opportunities before us to destroy New Jersey’s gun rights oppression. And that is the power of loopholes. Let me also. Go ahead, Teddy. Teddy Nappen 25:41 What I was going to say is, what’s going to come next is basically once we achieved it, where machine guns are legalized and we’ve basically knocked all their laws out. This is goes back to what the the Democrat Socialists put out, and then they’re gonna go for trying to abolish the Second Amendment. Evan Nappen 26:02 That’s right. Teddy Nappen 26:04 But that’s the whole idea. The whole argument of how we won on dealing with the assault weapon ban was the “common use”. So, I think just continuing to flood the market and to make sure guns outpace the population is the only way we’re going to ever protect the rights. Just manufacturing and outpacing them. Evan Nappen 26:05 The more commonly owned, the better. Evan Nappen 26:29 Hey, I want to tell you about our good friends at WeShoot. They have something really cool. They have the Civilian Shoot House Training, and that will be taking place on Friday, August 14, eight a.m. to Page – 7 – of 12 noon. This is something new at WeShoot. This is not a beginner class. This is where training becomes real. WeShoot’s Civilian Shoot House Training is built for people who understand one thing: real situations don’t happen standing still on a lane. You’ll learn how to move through your home, how to clear rooms, how to make decisions under pressure the right way. What you’ll learn in the Civilian Shoot House Training is room clearing fundamentals, shooting while moving, target identification under stress, proper use of light and positioning, operating solo or as a team. Now, this is the kind of training that helps you protect your family and avoid tragic, life-changing mistakes. Evan Nappen 27:44 This training is ideal for homeowners and parents, houses of worship security teams, armed guards, civilian groups, anyone serious about real-world defense. And you’ll be training with the real deal. You’ll be training with Jim Weinberg, who’s got 30 years of law enforcement experience with SWAT, USERT, and Todd Friedman, retired detective lieutenant, special operations. He’s led 500 tactical entries, over 500. Scott Benito, a 25-year veteran, former lieutenant, tactical team leader. Ryan Benito, an Army combat veteran, 173rd Airborne, CQB instructor, master breacher. Andy Tkach, retired captain, firearm instructor, city SRT team member, instructor, police academy instructor, and municipal counterterrorism coordinator. Evan Nappen 28:40 This is the kind of quality training you will receive from WeShoot in their Civilian Shoot House Training. These are instructors who have done it in real life, and they will teach you how to do it right. Listen, folks, the bottom line is this. Shooting is one skill; moving safely through your home is another. If you’re serious about protecting what matters, this is your next step. Keep in mind, spots are limited. Secure yours now. Go to weshootusa.com. Check out their fantastic website. It’s the greatest range. Teddy and I shoot there. We love it. Wwe get our trainings, where we get our certifications, and you can too. Whether you’re a beginner or advanced, WeShoot is a place for you. Conveniently located in Lakewood, right off the Parkway. Easy to get to, and a great resource. Take advantage of this resource at WeShootUSA.com. That’s the range you need to go to in New Jersey. Evan Nappen 29:49 Let me also tell you about New Jersey Gun Law. That’s my book. The Bible of New Jersey Gun Law. Everybody needs a copy. Get your copy at EvanNappen.com. It is a question and answer goldmine to fill you in and make it so you don’t become a GOFU. If you want to avoid that, you need the book. That’ll help you do it. Hey Teddy, what do you have for us in Press Checks? Teddy Nappen 30:17 Well, as you know, Press Checks are always free. We always like to check out our friends at AmmoLand, and they point out something that’s again very scary. If you’ve seen the news, all the big talk is about Flock Cameras. (https://www.ammoland.com/2026/07/flocks-flying-cameras-how-300-million-drone-deal-turns-america-into-an-always-on-surveillance-grid/) Typically, there’s a bill aiming to stop. Evan Nappen 30:37 What is a “Flock Camera”, Teddy? What is it? Page – 8 – of 12 Teddy Nappen 30:42 It is basically a highly advanced surveillance system that tracks, uses facial recognition, biometric identifications, and any other . It uses high level technology of capturing, analyzing, retaining. Evan Nappen 31:00 So, what are these cameras that are put all over the place? Teddy Nappen 31:03 So, they’re looking to. Right now the network has surpassed 100,000 cameras. They are operating more than 500,000. Evan Nappen 31:10 One hundred thousand cameras doing facial recognition, tracking, surveillance. Is this like Big Brother happening? Teddy Nappen 31:18 It is. And unfortunately, the Big Brother is very retarded. There have been many issues, including the fact that they’ve had the network be exposed, where you can get live feeds of the flock cameras. It’s amazing what you can find at a bunch of cameras pointed at, oh, you know, schools, playgrounds. That’s not going to be abused, and also it makes mistakes and false. Evan Nappen 31:44 And people are hacking into them, aren’t they? Teddy Nappen 31:46 Repeatedly, yes. And they’ve had. Evan Nappen 31:48 Well, wait a minute. If you’re not doing anything wrong, what do you have to worry about? Teddy Nappen 31:53 Well, it was pointed out in the article that this is important for the Second Amendment because it’s tracking license plates where it’s logging in, arriving and departing gun stores and gun shows and shooting ranges. Evan Nappen 32:08 Oh, New Jersey would never do that. Oh wait, they did. They did it at gun shows, even in out-of-state gun shows. Oh my. Teddy Nappen 32:16 Correct. Page – 9 – of 12 Evan Nappen 32:16 Oh my. And that’s without the aid of Flock Cameras. Teddy Nappen 32:20 Correct. And apply that now to not only building profiles where they’re going to determine oh this person’s a gun owner. So that obviously means they’re going to make the calculations think you’re carrying, and they’re going to wait until a moment when you’re in a “sensitive place” and try to bust you then. Doing this data tracking. Evan Nappen 32:41 Well, you’re not supposed to be in a “sensitive place”, Teddy. Teddy Nappen 32:44 Yeah, I know. It’s almost like you know things happen. Evan Nappen 32:46 And not only that, they use Wi-Fi to determine if you have a gun. Teddy Nappen 32:51 Correct. And then marry this with AI with a new thing called Signal Trace. It comes by the Leonardo USA Cybersecurity Company. So, this company, they use the Signal Trace. It’s a software system for identifying groups of consumers using multiples of the electronic devices. So, say that you have a smartwatch and a phone, or even your car, and all of that is accessible through the Signal Trace, where they develop large-scale profiles of individuals that they are tracking on these cameras. Now they understand. Oh, this person’s a gun owner. This person carries. This person’s going to have a whatever carry package. Evan Nappen 33:37 Wait a minute. I’ve got a question. I see, but are there any like countries that might be like authoritarian and really mean to their people that might be using technology like this? There isn’t any countries doing that now, is there? Teddy Nappen 33:54 China, Russia. Evan Nappen 33:56 China and Russia. Teddy Nappen 33:57 UK. Evan Nappen 33:58 I see, and the UK, of course, of course. Page – 10 – of 12 Teddy Nappen 34:03 These are various nations for that they’re going to abuse it. And by the way, they’ve come out and said they’re not talking about combining the two systems of Signal Trace. There’s no official contract, but let’s be real. The fact remains AI. Evan Nappen 34:19 Anything Government can abuse, they will abuse. That’s an iron law of Government abuse. Who’s kidding who? And by the way, if you’re not doing anything wrong, you’re not doing anything wrong till somebody decides that what you’re doing is wrong, and now it’s wrong in their book. Teddy Nappen 34:36 I’ll give you a one example. Well, they bought Aerodome, which is a drone package. So, now it’s going to be a mobile Flock Camera, calling it the Alpha. Evan Nappen 34:51 Oh, wow! Everywhere! Flying overhead. Anywhere, everywhere, constant surveillance. That’s just lovely, lovely. Teddy Nappen 35:02 Yes. Evan Nappen 35:02 Who wants to live like that? Teddy Nappen 35:05 Yes. So, Big Brother is out there, and I’m pretty sure there are a few videos on how to do drone hunting. So that’s going to be fun. Yeah. You know, when Amazon was doing that, it was skeet shooting with prizes. Evan Nappen 35:20 Ha, ha! Well, you know, there’s a federal bill I understand to try to ban these. Teddy Nappen 35:27 Correct. It’s the Protection Against Mass Surveillance Act (H.R. 980). (https://www.ammoland.com/2026/07/burchett-bill-flock-cameras-gun-owners/) Evan Nappen 35:33 Well, damn, we need that bill. Teddy Nappen 35:35 Yeah, no, no kidding. Evan Nappen 35:37 It’ll be a federal prohibition on this nonsense? Page – 11 – of 12 Teddy Nappen 35:40 All federal agencies will be prohibited from using automated surveillance system to identify, track, or record individuals. Evan Nappen 35:46 Oh, I’m sure the state of New Jersey will happily do it, though. It sounds right up their line. Teddy Nappen 35:52 Yeah. Evan Nappen 35:53 But at least if we get the feds to maybe even make it preemptive. It should be a federal law that preempts the area, so that’s nationwide and preemptive. So, you kill it for the whole country. Teddy Nappen 36:06 Yeah, and this is where. Again, this is the marrying of what will come because we can have all these fights and win and get all the loopholes, but this combined with AI of what they’re going to do, they will just track, and they know how many guns without even having to do the right process. Evan Nappen 36:24 It’s scary. It’s scary stuff. Teddy Nappen 36:26 They won’t even need to do the paperwork even. It’ll just have an AI. Evan Nappen 36:29 You know, technology is advancing so fast with all this. You’re combining AI and drones and Flock cameras and this targeting ability. I mean, you know, we’re not too far from RoboCop. And that also includes actual robots coming our way. Then you combine robots with Flock and drone and AI, and you see we’re entering into a sci-fi horror show here. Teddy Nappen 37:03 Yeah. Evan Nappen 37:04 They better get the federal laws on this stuff, man. It’s spooky. It’s scary. It is not how I grew up. I’ll tell you that. It’s bad news. Bad news. Evan Nappen 37:17 Well, I want to tell you about this week’s GOFU, which is of course the Gun Owner Fuck Up. It’s important. We always study GOFUs. You don’t want to become a GOFU. GOFUs are expensive lessons that others have learned that you get to learn for free, so you don’t repeat them. And let me tell you, these are actual cases, clients and real scenarios. I’ll tell you something I’ve seen a lot of lately. Page – 12 – of 12 Folks that are doing their own expungements. If you have a record that needs to be cleared, I absolutely do not advise doing it yourself. You need a professional to get your expungement done right. There’s a lot of nuances to getting expungements done right, and when they are done wrong, it is a nightmare. It is a nightmare to fix it, and it creates escalating problems. Evan Nappen 38:11 Let me give you an example. You get an expungement, and you don’t clear all your records. You think you have. Next thing you know, you’re jammed up on your gun application for lying on the form. You’re looking at five years in State Prison for lying on the form because you wrote “no” when you should have wrote “yes”. You thought you were expunged and you weren’t. You get an expungement. You actually get everything cleared, but you didn’t realize that you had to wait for the State Police to also scrub the record. No one told you that. You thought it got done, but the database comes up that you have a record. You’ve said “no”. Now the entire system comes down on you for lying. License denial, gun forfeiture, revocation. You’ve got to fight it all off. Again, giant problem. Evan Nappen 39:03 Even if you get the expungement order, you don’t realize the record hasn’t been scrubbed. Your local issuing authority recognizes the expungement, and grants you the license or permit. You then go to the dealer to buy, but get denied on the NICS check because the database still has it in it. Now the feds are on your ass, and the entire escalation comes down on you for that. We see these scenarios over and over again. If you or anybody you know needs an expungement, get it done professionally. There’s too many pitfalls, problems, and nuances in doing it properly and correctly. Believe me, we see that downside. Don’t be a GOFU. Evan Nappen 39:57 This is Evan Nappen and Teddy Nappen reminding you that gun laws don’t protect honest citizens from criminals. They protect criminals from honest citizens. Speaker 3 40:08 GunLawyer is a Counterthink Media production. The music used in this broadcast was managed by Cosmo Music, New York, New York. Reach us by emailing [email protected]. The information and opinions in this broadcast do not constitute legal advice. Consult a licensed attorney in your state. Downloadable PDF TranscriptGun Lawyer S5 E301_Transcript About The HostEvan Nappen, Esq.Known as “America’s Gun Lawyer,” Evan Nappen is above all a tireless defender of justice. Author of eight bestselling books and countless articles on firearms, knives, and weapons history and the law, a certified Firearms Instructor, and avid weapons collector and historian with a vast collection that spans almost five decades — it’s no wonder he’s become the trusted, go-to expert for local, industry and national media outlets. Regularly called on by radio, television and online news media for his commentary and expertise on breaking news Evan has appeared countless shows including Fox News – Judge Jeanine, CNN – Lou Dobbs, Court TV, Real Talk on WOR, It’s Your Call with Lyn Doyle, Tom Gresham’s Gun Talk, and Cam & Company/NRA News. As a creative arts consultant, he also lends his weapons law and historical expertise to an elite, discerning cadre of movie and television producers and directors, and novelists. He also provides expert testimony and consultations for defense attorneys across America. 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  Episode 300- Do Not Engage in “Maritime Salvage” Just Yet.  Also Available OnSearchable Podcast Transcript Gun Lawyer — Episode Transcript Page – 1 – of 11 Gun Lawyer — Episode 300 Transcript SUMMARY KEYWORDS New Jersey gun ban, Third Circuit Court, Second Amendment, Judge Friedman, assault firearms, large capacity magazines, Supreme Court decision, July 31 date, mandate, stay of implementation, common use, federal gun laws, interstate commerce, carry permit, socialism. SPEAKERS Teddy Nappen, Speaker 2, Evan Nappen Evan Nappen 00:18 I’m Evan Nappen. Teddy Nappen 00:20 And I’m Teddy Nappen. Evan Nappen 00:23 And this is Gun Lawyer. I need to give everyone a warning. Do NOT engage in maritime salvage from boating accidents until given the all clear. Teddy Nappen 00:39 You might find a few bodies in Jersey. Evan Nappen 00:41 Well, the reason for this is, of course, we’re all extremely excited about the Third Circuit Court of Appeals en banc decision killing and pronouncing dead the New Jersey 36-year-old ban on so-called “assault firearms” and so-called “large capacity magazines”. (https://www2.ca3.uscourts.gov/opinarch/242415p.pdf) I mean, we’ve known it’s a violation of the Second Amendment ever since the day it passed, but finally getting to this day is wonderful. Just a great day for freedom and liberty and shoving it up New Jersey’s butt. It is great. It is great. Evan Nappen 01:26 However, in practical terms, a lot of the key questions that are out there. Are we good to go? Can we buy these guns? Can we buy these mags? What’s the story? What’s the deal? I’m going to explain to you where we’re at with that, and that’s the important thing that I know a lot of you want to know. At the moment, we’ve got to just let the dust settle here because there’s certain formalities and deadlines and procedures that can happen. Yes, we have the win. We have the win. It’s a fantastic win. It’s a decision which was 10 – 5. It was brilliant. We absolutely crushed it. Page – 2 – of 11 Page – 3 – of 11 Evan Nappen 02:07 The decision was written by Judge Freeman, who, by the way, the judge who wrote this magnificent decision was a Biden appointee, and the first female judge of color. That’s right, a woman of color. The first on the Appellate Court and a Biden appointee – who is giving us this fantastic Second Amendment decision, which is restoring freedom and helping to stop oppression of our Second Amendment rights. So, you know, this is important because it’s how it should be. Those that believe in rights, whatever you might think of the bat might be their politics. It’s everybody’s Second Amendment. It’s everybody’s right. And if you’re going to follow the Constitution and you’re going to be a judge that follows the Constitution and does not goes for politics, then this is the right thing to do. So, I take my hat off to Judge Freeman. It is a great decision. Extraordinarily thorough. Evan Nappen 03:27 I understand her background was that in being a public defender as well, and I’m sure that she saw what these laws do to good people and how unfair and unbelievably stupid they are. We now see the results of all the incredible hard work that’s been done over years that got us to this point. So, we’re all just jumping for joy, and it’s really making clear that the so-called assault weapon, assault firearm bans, even across the country, are on their deathbed or are being killed and dying. Even with the U.S. Supreme Court having taken the Viramonti and Grant cases now. We’re going to get a federal Supreme Court decision that’ll come out in June 2027. This New Jersey Appeals Court decision is, of course, going to I’m sure come into play in their decision making there, and it is a great day for us for sure. Evan Nappen 04:37 However, how does it work now that we have that decision? How will it work in practical terms? This is where some patience is necessary. Some important patience is called for. And that’s because you may have heard, and if not, I’m going to mention to you, that there was an email that was sent out to dealers from the State Police Firearms Unit. It went out and it said that that essentially July 31st, July 30-first, they’re going to the this will become effective, meaning the court case effective. It was kind of weirdly written with this date, and it seemed to indicate that July 30-first, everything was going to be free flowing, and we were going to be good to go. But it wasn’t really. It basically put everyone thinking. Okay, July 31 is some kind of key date, and that’s when we’re going to know. Why would they even pick that? Like, what is going on? So let me explain that date and what’s really happening. As a matter of fact, our good friend, John Petrolino, at Bearing Arms, recently had an article that says “NJ AG Backtracks on Date of Gun and Magazine Ban’s Demise”. (https://bearingarms.com/john-petrolino/2026/07/23/nj-ag-backtracks-on-date-gun-magazine-ban-demise-n1233262) Evan Nappen 06:10 The backtracking is as follows. This is what’s going on. That July 31 date, which Bearing Arms and Petrolino got the word from Davenport’s office. Davenport is the Attorney General that is saying. “We have until July 31, 2026 to petition the court for rehearing, and then seven days later on August 7, 2026 is when the decision is effective”. So, that’s where they’re coming from. Are they going to petition for a rehearing now? Just because they petition for a rehearing doesn’t mean that a rehearing is going to get granted, and I frankly think it’s unlikely that it’s going to get granted. Page – 4 – of 11 Evan Nappen 07:08 Now, in addition to this mix, is what’s called the mandate. A good friend and colleague, who was the lead counsel and fought hard on this very case, Dan Schmutter, a great Second Amendment attorney, was speaking to John (Petrolino) and also explained that there’s this mandate. Essentially, what he said is, “The mandate is the actual order . . .” That’s the direction to the lower court to implement the ruling, and that mandate is basically an August 10t date. So, August 10 is going to be a critical date in understanding the practical aspects of when and if these firearms and magazines will again be bought, sold, and possessed in New Jersey. And that’s why we’re putting advice out about not doing any maritime salvage for any boating accidents on recovery until we have an understanding of where we’re at here. Evan Nappen 08:32 Now, there may even be a stay granted, a stay of the implementation of the mandate. That would mean we’d be in a holding pattern until that stay gets lifted. This might, in fact, happen, and then that will ride until we get the (U.S.) Supreme Court rendering its decision. New Jersey also might try to go for (U.S.) Supreme Court review, what we call certiorari, and that may end up bringing it into or making it part of or put on hold with the Supreme Court case pending in Viramontes and Grant. This is all out there in the mix. Evan Nappen 09:15 So, the number one takeaway from all this is – Don’t do anything yet. We have all the reason to be extremely happy, to be joyous, to realize that all our hard work is paying off. But at the moment, don’t take any steps yet, so that you don’t end up in a giant GOFU. And doing something now is the GOFU. That’s this week’s GOFU. This week’s GOFU, even though we normally do it at the end of the show, let me just tell you right now, the GOFU is that. Do NOT do anything different right now. Don’t buy or order magazines. Don’t possess any of the firearms that may fall under the current ban. You may be seeing things online where people are claiming that they’re buying and selling and doing. I wouldn’t be doing that right now. Even though I’m confident in our victory, it still isn’t a done deal. The old “wait till the fat lady sings” deal. Well, it applies here. There’s still the risk. And during that time period, right now, before we have the definitive legal standing, so we can say you have the green light. We’re all good. You’re taking a risk that you don’t want to take. So that is the point. Teddy Nappen 10:48 One of the things in reading the case, Dad, just kind of going through, they outline the full breakdown of using Bruen of how they essentially destroy it with the test, the two-part test. The Second Amendment plain text covers the individual’s conduct, and then clicks to the next one. And also says it must demonstrate the regulations consist of nation’s historical tradition of firearm regulation. They show the combination of this with Wolford as well. Wolford goes into the three subsidiaries where applies, what is people, all members of political community, and then goes into arms. Arms is the game because that was the whole crux was the issue of common use. That was the entire thing that the Left have been trying, the dangerous and unusual. It was clearly outlined in the opinion talking about the idea of common use, both with the AR-15s and assault firearms, but with mags as well. They even highlight that where the I almost read like Scalia, where he used to you know. If you ever read his opinions, he always joked and made like little snide remarks. It was very funny. But with the 24 million AR-15s, this Page – 5 – of 11 is right out of the case, 24 million AR-15s and similar sporting rifles, the classification that can be determined are in common use, lawful purposes, typically common standard. With a 20 to 30-round mag, up to 100 million 30-round mags in the United States, magazines are in circulation. That sets the degree of common use. Evan Nappen 12:38 Let me tell you why that’s so important. Because once common use, you have that, and it actually has a reverse burden from this case. Common use is shown. It’s done. It’s there. We, as those challenging the laws, that burden isn’t on us, and it makes it now so that the State has to demonstrate the Bruen test. So, this is very significant because of how it addresses common use. And, of course, these semi-automatic firearms and their magazines are, it’s undisputable. It’s indisputable that they’re in common use. There’s more AR-15s than there are Ford F-150s out there. So, this is great. And you know the gun rights oppressors realize that their days are numbered, don’t you think, Teddy? Don’t you think they realize that? Teddy Nappen 13:55 Well, not only that, they’re putting out newsletters crying about it. I mean, cut to right now, The Trace. Literally, they just admitted defeat right from The Trace. “New Jersey Just Lost Its Assault Weapon Ban. Here’s Why That Matters for the Rest of the Country.” (https://www.thetrace.org/2026/07/state-assault-weapons-ban-new-jersey/) They admit it. In Delaware. The challenges in Chicago. All the different ones that are currently in play to take out the assault weapon bans. They even go into that it’s been part of. It’s been, they’ve been a synonym, the assault weapons and the gun control debate. Oh, really? It just shows the outlandishness of the debate, really. Evan Nappen 14:39 Yeah. Well, they know it, and this issue for them has been such a magnificent fundraising, pearl clutching, issue for them, and it is going to be bye bye. Across the board on gun laws challenges, they are losing, losing, losing, losing. Teddy Nappen 15:07 The one thing I will say, and I always like reading the dissent. This is the mindset of the Left of how they, and pulling right from the dissent here where they go into it. The rights secured by our founders in the Second Amendment is not unlimited. They always cite that to Heller. It has never been understood that the guarantee of a right to keep and bear arms, to carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever, or for whatever purpose. Instead, the Second Amendment allows states to ban certain types of firearms. I don’t remember that in the Second Amendment. I don’t remember those words. Evan Nappen 15:50 Well, here’s a funny little thought that occurred to me about this. Once the dust settles, and ARs and mags and semi-auto rifles and all the, you know, intrinsically evil guns that the oppressors hate. Once they’re all good to go in New Jersey, the definition of assault firearm. That term, assault firearm. That definition is still found in New Jersey law. It’s just that the ban is found to be unconstitutional. The ban, right? The prohibition. But the definition of that term is still in law. That’s found under firearm definitions. It’s found there. The ban itself is found in a different section. That’s under N.J.S. 2C:58-5.(f). It’s a Page – 6 – of 11 different section. That’s where it’s banned. It’s made a crime of the second degree to possess any of these guns without a permit to carry an assault firearm, or it having been registered or rendered inoperable. Right there in the statute. If you don’t have any of those exceptions, then you are a violator. If you violate it, if you’re convicted, you’re looking at up to 10 years in State Prison, with a minimum mandatory three and a half years. It’s draconian and insane. Evan Nappen 17:28 So, the law, the law itself, that is the ban. That’s the 39-5 law. That’s where the ban is. The definition is in 39-1. However. However, what’s very interesting is New Jersey has, under 58-5. That’s N.J.S. 2C:58-5. They have the license to carry and possess an assault firearm. Now that license to carry an assault firearm mandated two things in order to get it. One is that you first have a permit to carry a handgun, and of course, when that law was put in place, you know, there were less than 600 citizens that even had permits to carry a handgun. Now, there’s 100,000 approximately or more that have a permit to carry a handgun. So, that one has already been met. Evan Nappen 18:33 Then the other thing you had to show was that somehow it was in the public interest for you to have this. However, that standard, those standards, even the standard for carry of justifiable need, the standards have been eviscerated by Bruen. You can’t have those standards. You can’t have those standards on a carry. So, what is left in place, my friends, is an assault firearm carry license. Let that sink in. So, in other words, not only by the definition that still exists are these guns there as a list, but New Jersey has a carry permit waiting for you to obtain, so that you can carry those guns. They can no longer ban them, but they have a license to carry them that you can get. And not only will you be able to get it, you’ll be able to get it and have the guns. Because you can’t ban the guns. So, now, their carry permit that they put in to somehow work as an impossible to get exemption can now be turned against them, and can be used so that we can even get licenses to carry the list of guns that they so radically expanded to the features of the ’97 guidelines and anything substantially identical in the list of 67 guns, etc. So, their laws are going to come back, as they are, and bite them in the ass, as it should be. Keep that in mind. Teddy Nappen 20:21 It’ll be really, it would be really funny, Dad. If we somehow could interview Josh Sugarman. Just to ask him, like his literally the thing, the term that he used is now going to codify as the de facto defense to allow people to have and possess the firearms. Evan Nappen 20:39 And not just possess, but to be able to carry. Because New Jersey has a so-called assault firearm carry license. The definition of assault firearm is one statute, and the carry license is another. What the decision is invalidating is the ban, is the ban, and New Jersey has a vehicle in place already in law to apply to carry them. So, there you go. Another little tidbit to consider. Evan Nappen 21:13 And I’ll tell you something else, Teddy. I have a really important case to talk about that may even be more significant, if you can believe it. More significant than this entire battle over assault firearms. Page – 7 – of 11 Because this issue may completely wipe out the key foundation of federal gun laws. I’m gonna tell you about it in a moment. But first I want to tell you about our good friends at WeShoot. WeShoot is an indoor range in Lakewood. It’s where Teddy and I both shoot. Where we get our certifications, where we get our training, and where we love to enjoy our range time. Now WeShoot, as many of you know, has a fantastic pro shop. There are such a great bunch of folks, and they have many different programs, training, and offerings. Evan Nappen 22:12 One of the things they’re offering right now that I want to talk about, that I think is really, really great is they’re offering New Jersey carry certification, CCARE, but specifically they’re offering a course for seniors. For seniors. They have a very welcoming, senior-friendly program designed to make the process simple, comfortable, and easy to understand. With WeShoot’s extremely experienced instructors, they’re able to provide a safe and supportive and a pressure-free environment where you can build your confidence, improve your skills, and gain the knowledge necessary so you can carry responsibly. This course is really a great idea, and it is something that if you are a senior and you are looking to be able to protect yourself, because that is our right, and of course, as a senior, you know you’re not as physically capable as you used to be. Evan Nappen 23:30 This course has basic firearm safety as a component. There’s safe handling and loading, unloading, and storage techniques. They do easy to understand instruction in use of force, how to do holster safely, safety with holsters, and how to properly draw. Then you do the live fire qualification. All this is step-by-step guidance, including through the New Jersey permit application process. So, this is a great service that is being offered by WeShoot. If you or anyone you know is a senior and they want to be able to get their permit to carry, here’s a great opportunity to be introduced and learn properly, correctly, and get the credentials that you need to do it from We Shoot. Check out weshootusa.com. Their beautiful website with fantastic photography. And don’t miss the WeShoot girls when you go on their website. You’ll love it. WeShoot is the place. They’re right there, conveniently located in central Jersey. Conveniently, right off the Parkway there. Check it out. Evan Nappen 24:49 Let me also mention my book, New Jersey Gun Law. Make sure you have your copy of New Jersey Gun Law. It is the Bible of Jersey Gun Law. It’s over 500 pages, 120 topics, all question and answer. It will guide you through the insane matrix of New Jersey gun laws, and it is something that I’m looking forward to seeing be made smaller, being made a smaller volume. That’d be nice as we keep chopping away the gun laws. But New Jersey still has many of these laws to go, and you need to make sure that you don’t become a GOFU. So, go to evannappen.com, evannappen.com, and get your book today. Evan Nappen 25:37 Now, Teddy, there is a really important development taking place in the Fifth Circuit, and it’s all because of Saint Thomas. That is what we call Justice (Clarence) Thomas, one of the greatest judges on the Supreme Court, of course. He, interestingly, laid out a challenge. He laid out a challenge in the recent Supreme Court decision in (United States v.) Hemani. In Hemani, Justice Thomas said, “The Commerce Clause does not authorize Congress to ‘regulate or ban possession of any item that has Page – 8 – of 11 ever been offered for sale or crossed state lines'”. Then Thomas wrote. “Otherwise, federal commerce authority becomes “a general police power of the sort retained by the States.” Evan Nappen 26:58 Now that is a fascinating gauntlet thrown down by Judge Thomas, and it has now been picked up by the Fifth Circuit. And a great article on this by Duncan Johnson from Ammoland. The article is: “Fifth Circuit Takes Justice Thomas Up on Challenge to Federal Gun-Control Power”. (https://www.ammoland.com/2026/07/fifth-circuit-squire-922g-federal-gun-ban/?utm_source=Ammoland+Subscribers&utm_campaign=1fc1371d30-RSS_EMAIL_CAMPAIGN&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_6f6fac3eaa-1fc1371d30-21268623) And yes, it does. Evan Nappen 27:22 Because what Thomas is doing there is going at the federal power of interstate commerce. Now, let me tell you, folks. There’s only certain powers that the federal government has, and all the other powers out there are reserved to the states. So, what are the powers of the federal government? Well, there’s three primary powers that the federal governments have. And if the laws are not founded within those powers, if the powers aren’t there, then there’s no jurisdiction for the law that the Government has passed. So, the key federal powers are the power of taxation. That’s one power. The military power. And the power of interstate commerce. Those are the powers in the Constitution given to the federal Government. All the other powers go to the states. Evan Nappen 28:24 So, you see that every federal law, every federal law, has to be based on one of those three powers. Otherwise, there’s no jurisdiction for the law. So, originally, way back, the key power that was used by the federal government were two: military and the power of taxation. And you see, the power of taxation that was the first power used to pass a national gun control law, the National Firearms Act of 1934. The NFA is based on the power of taxation. That’s why you get a tax stamp. That’s why ATF and all were originally part of Treasury. It’s all based on the Government’s power of taxation. And with the Big Beautiful Bill, the tax was made zero. So, now, in the big beautiful lawsuit, the argument is: if you’re not collecting a tax, then your jurisdiction for this, your power of taxation, doesn’t exist anymore. The law is no longer valid because it’s no longer a tax, and therefore no jurisdiction. Evan Nappen 29:44 Well, that third power, interstate commerce, that’s where you see the greatest amount of federal government abuse and overreach that ever existed. You can trace that back to the Wickard versus Filburn case. (https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/317/111/) This case had to do with a farmer growing his own food during FDR’s administration. The farmer was growing his own food for himself and for his own livestock. He didn’t sell a grain of it anywhere. And the government said, “You can’t do that. We regulate what farmers can and can’t grow.” And the farmer said, “Hey, man, this is my farm. It’s for me. It’s not for anyone else. I have a right to do it. And the court said, “Oh, well, the fact that you grow your own and don’t sell it or distribute it affects interstate commerce. Affects it. And man, that opened the door. Because then anything that affects interstate commerce, anything that has traveled in interstate commerce, anything. Broad, broad, broad. This explosion in federal power. Page – 9 – of 11 Evan Nappen 31:00 Thomas, obviously and correctly, sees that this is nuts, and wants to pull it back. And now we have a case in the Fifth Circuit, “United States versus Squire”. Again, en banc, full court, where there was a total remand back, in which the consideration is now going to be a challenge as to whether interstate commerce, whether that power, can affect simply, as in Squire’s case, which involved a felon. A convicted felon, a bad guy. Someone who, you know, is not a nice person, as our president would say. Not a nice person. However, the gun that was found in, I think it was Louisiana, the gun that was found at this guy’s place was not used in a crime. Was not used in a murder. You know, was not the element was not evidence of any offense of that. Evan Nappen 32:14 But he was charged with being a felon in possession of a firearm. The question is, is a gun that merely at some point had traveled through interstate commerce, but was no longer, you know, in interstate commerce at all. It was no longer. Just in this guy’s place, sitting in a state in in Louisiana. Does the federal government’s power of interstate commerce still apply to that, so that they can enforce a federal gun law stopping felons from possessing a gun, or is that an overreach? And this case, my friends, has the potential to remove the very foundation of federal gun laws based on interstate commerce. It is extremely, extremely important. Even the dissent recognizes that this is the case. As a matter of fact, the dissent in the Squire’s case said the court has “welcomed the possibility of finding that Congress’s Commerce Clause authority cannot support 922(g).” That’s the felon in possession prohibition. “Such a decision”, he (Judge Stephen Higginson) said, “would have massive import for federal law.” That’s right. You’re damn right it will. You’re damn right it will. And that’s what they’re afraid of. This is why the Squire case can be absolutely game-changing like no other. So, we will keep a close eye on that. Teddy Nappen 34:14 I would kind of combine that with just, from the political landscape where you see. I don’t know if you saw the Democrat Socialists. They put out that stupid manifesto where they were talking about eliminating the Senate, expanding Congress. They appoint the president. You don’t elect the president. They appoint and just abolishing our system. Evan Nappen 34:37 Oh yeah, they’re basically turning us into a dictatorship, a communist dictatorship. Teddy Nappen 34:44 I feel like that would be the ultimate check on their power. If we could really, really, truly curtail the commerce clause to not allow that much power. Evan Nappen 34:56 Oh yeah, we need to. Yeah, this is all about pulling back the federal government in its overreach. And yet something like national reciprocity, where we’re dealing with a Constitutional right and actually traveling interstate. Well, now we do have interstate commerce going on. We have crossing state lines. We have something that is so plainly a federal issue that falls under it. Whereas, when you start making an inanimate object that at some point just crossed the state line and ends up in somebody’s home. Page – 10 – of 11 They’re not traveling with it. They’re not moving with it. They’re just saying, “Hey, you know, even though it was purchased or acquired in Louisiana, but at some point it had to get to a dealer, you know, and made it to the. I mean, this is so far down the line of having any connection to it. Evan Nappen 35:55 And as Thomas points out, it basically removes the state police power, which is a power that should be reserved to the state. So, this is going to be a fascinating argument to follow, and the threat of communism through the Democrat Socialists. I mean, you know, look at what we’re looking at today, Teddy. When was the last time we saw that, you know, Democrat Socialists? You know, they want national socialism, and they combine it with Jew hate. Gee, those folks used to walk funny. I think, right? Remember them? That’s what they’re basically mirroring right now in America. Teddy Nappen 35:55 Well, it goes back to, Dad, you gotta look at the two biggest propagandist industries. You had higher education, which you know that’s, thank God Donald Trump cracked down on that hard. Where now they’re no longer be going to give out loans to. So you have to get a bat. You can get a bachelor degree in feminist basket weaving, and that’ll cut out a lot. Evan Nappen 35:55 Right, that’s a great move, too. You’re right. Teddy Nappen 35:58 And number two is Hollywood and entertainment, where they also push the socialist movement. That I think, particularly with AI and other and independent projects, are rising above and breaking the stranglehold of Hollywood. At the point now, they’re trying to fund Jersey, where Netflix is building, and you got Paramount and the others are funding it. Trying to turn into the New East Hollywood. But the main thing is McCarthy wasn’t wrong. He went overzealous, yes, but just the levels of it. There were communists in our in the in our works of the government, and here is the fruits of their labor. Evan Nappen 35:58 Well, not only that, you know, during McCarthy’s day, they tried to stay hidden. Now, they’re open about it. They’re open. Teddy Nappen 36:37 They’re proud of it. They’re bragging. They’re proud of it. Teddy Nappen 37:54 They’re wearing it. They’re bragging about it. And this is a complete antithesis to what America is all about, and nowhere ever has communism worked. Look, you know, when that wall came down in Germany, where do you think they wanted to go? You know, you don’t see people escaping. “Escaping” to communism. It’s the reverse. And once you get communism, once you elect it in, you end up having to shoot your way out. So, you know, I don’t think the overwhelming majority of Americans are that foolish. But here’s the problem. The majority of Democrats are because statistically they’re apparently in favor of socialism, which is just, you know, a euphemistic label for communism. Page – 11 – of 11 Teddy Nappen 38:54 Here’s the issue, though, Dad. It’s my generation, the next, where I think the number was like 58% are seen in favor of socialism. That’s that generation. So, you this time period will be fine. But the next generation, that’ll be where like it’s something. This is where we need to do heavy, heavy arms of propaganda. And look, the easiest way to dispel this argument – name me one country where socialism works. Tell me that. They immediately try to say the Nordic country, and then I say, okay. First of all, here’s a deal for you. We’ll completely deregulate oil, just like the Nordic countries. Our immigration policy is about around 3% and reduce the migrant population to about the size of any Nordic country. And then finally to end it all, make sure people have healthy, maintain themselves healthily, and actually watch what they’re actually eating and going into developing healthier habits, like a lot of the Nordic countries. Then get back to me on socialism. Other than that, none of that works. We are a heavily diverse nation. We have a lot of unhealthy issues. So, when I hear it, it’s just B.S., every single time. There is no. They move the goalposts and say there’s never been any true. It hasn’t worked yet because it’s not. It hasn’t been the right version. Evan Nappen 40:18 Yeah, right. Well, I don’t want to be part of that experiment. Thank you. Okay, no thanks. No, thank you. I’ll stick with our Founding Fathers. I’ll stick with the incredible quality of life that capitalism has given us. And there’s a reason why so many people want to come here. There’s a really good reason for it, and it ain’t communism. That’s for sure. Hey, the other thing. This. Yeah. Yeah. Go ahead. Teddy Nappen 40:43 No, I was gonna say. Here’s the other one. Name me once did communism ever allow for someone to take a loan to get a business started? Name me one faction of that, where someone who came from essentially the small folk being able to rise up and become millionaires and running their own businesses. Yeah, exactly. Evan Nappen 41:07 Maybe recently you heard, I just heard President Trump talking about it, and he summed it up pretty well. He said, “Communism is shit.” That’s exactly what the President said, and then he goes. His wife gets upset when he uses that word, and Reverend Falwell even wrote him once and said to him, you know, we’d prefer if he would try not to use profanity. And then Trump said he told him, the problem is that’s the word that perfectly describes communism. So, I guess if there’s any time to use the word, that’s the time to use the word. So, there you go. Evan Nappen 41:49 Hey, this is Evan Nappen and Teddy Nappen reminding you that gun laws don’t protect honest citizens from criminals. They protect criminals from honest citizens. Speaker 2 42:03 Gun Lawyer is a CounterThink Media production. The music used in this broadcast was managed by Cosmo Music, New York, New York. Reach us by emailing [email protected]. The information and opinions in this broadcast do not constitute legal advice. Consult a licensed attorney in your state. Downloadable PDF TranscriptGun Lawyer S5 E300_Transcript About The HostEvan Nappen, Esq.Known as “America’s Gun Lawyer,” Evan Nappen is above all a tireless defender of justice. Author of eight bestselling books and countless articles on firearms, knives, and weapons history and the law, a certified Firearms Instructor, and avid weapons collector and historian with a vast collection that spans almost five decades — it’s no wonder he’s become the trusted, go-to expert for local, industry and national media outlets. Regularly called on by radio, television and online news media for his commentary and expertise on breaking news Evan has appeared countless shows including Fox News – Judge Jeanine, CNN – Lou Dobbs, Court TV, Real Talk on WOR, It’s Your Call with Lyn Doyle, Tom Gresham’s Gun Talk, and Cam & Company/NRA News. As a creative arts consultant, he also lends his weapons law and historical expertise to an elite, discerning cadre of movie and television producers and directors, and novelists. He also provides expert testimony and consultations for defense attorneys across America. 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  Episode 299-AG Attacks Gun Shows Also Available OnSearchable Podcast Transcript Gun Lawyer — Episode Transcript Page – 1 – of 13 Gun Lawyer — Episode 299 Transcript SUMMARY KEYWORDS Gun Lawyer, Second Amendment, Jimmy Stewart, Lee Marvin, Charles Bronson, Ghost Guns, Pennsylvania gun show, Civil Complaint, New Jersey gun laws, Second Amendment Section, DOJ, Gun Control, Red Flag Laws, Gun Owner Faux Pas. SPEAKERS Speaker 2, Teddy Nappen, Evan Nappen Evan Nappen 00:18 I’m Evan Nappen. Teddy Nappen 00:19 and I’m Teddy Nappen. Evan Nappen 00:21 And welcome to Gun Lawyer. So, Teddy, I think you have a very interesting news bit to tell us about, and I have some very interesting thoughts about it. Go right ahead. Teddy Nappen 00:36 Well, first I want to say, Dad, if you’re just scrolling through, I love the random trailers that just pop up. Apparently, they’re making a Jimmy Stewart biopic. Evan Nappen 00:48 Well, Jimmy Stewart was a great man. Teddy Nappen 00:50 But here’s the deal. They’re focusing on his military career, where he was a combat pilot. Evan Nappen 00:56 He was a hero. He was a bona fide hero, and he served his country tremendously. I have nothing but respect for Jimmy Stewart. Teddy Nappen 01:12 I was pulling it up. He flew 20 missions in Europe, and he reached the rank of Colonel. He was a World War Two pilot commander, combat pilot. Evan Nappen 01:22 And this was in the middle of his movie career. He left. Page – 2 – of 13 Evan Nappen 01:26 He left his movie career to fight for America. Let that sink in. I mean, do you think these selfish movie stars, self-centered, would even think of doing that? Even think of doing that today? Please. At least not the overwhelming majority. Maybe there’d be a few that are out there that actually would consider such a thing. But good grief. Talk about old Hollywood and new Hollywood. Jeez. Teddy Nappen 01:26 Yeah. Teddy Nappen 01:57 I will say. I would have. This is no dig against Jimmy Stewart because it’s one of those I would have wanted if they’re gonna do any of the actors that served. I would love for them to do Lee Marvin. His whole story. Evan Nappen 02:10 Oh, Lee Marvin was great, too. Teddy Nappen 02:13 Where he has the craziest career, too. He was a scout sniper, 21 amphibious assaults, horribly injured and shot up. Evan Nappen 02:23 Yeah, they could just do a series, like a mini series of actors who were the real deal. That played tough guys, but were actually the real deal. You know, Charles Bronson was. You had the guy, Christopher Lee. Holy crap, Christopher! Teddy Nappen 02:44 Oh yeah, Christopher Lee. He was Wiki page. Evan Nappen 02:51 I mean, Christopher Lee was advising on the movie and saying that’s not how a knife sounds when you jam it into somebody. You don’t have the sound right on that. That’s not how it goes. It’s not what the sound the person makes. It’s not the sound the knife makes. I mean, that’s some pretty detailed knowledge right there. Teddy Nappen 03:07 If you’re ever bored, just click on the random page on his bio, and it gets crazier and crazier. Like, witness the last guillotining. Evan Nappen 03:18 I know. The guy’s amazing. Yeah, and of course, there’s always Audie Murphy, of course. Teddy Nappen 03:25 Yeah, of course. Page – 3 – of 13 Evan Nappen 03:26 Audie Murphy played himself in “To Hell and Back”. Audie Murphy is amazing, and he would be like one of the last guys if you looked at him to think that he’s one of the most decorated soldiers of the war. But he was also amazing, and you know, he made lots of other movies, too. Even though he’s most famous for “To Hell and Back”, but he did a lot of westerns and other things. Teddy Nappen 03:52 I remember one of the underrated ones. I think it was like “The Duel at Silver Creek”. There’s moments where he’s actually like, he plays an anti-hero type where he’s like. Evan Nappen 04:03 Yeah, a bastard, frankly. A son of a bitch. Teddy Nappen 04:05 He plays like a. Evan Nappen 04:06 Yeah he’s good. Teddy Nappen 04:07 Yeah. Evan Nappen 04:08 Not what you think of Audie Murphy. Teddy Nappen 04:09 Right. He plays like the tough guy. It is very interesting that character but. Evan Nappen 04:14 Yeah, yeah. And then he ended up dying in a plane crash because the pilot shouldn’t have been flying apparently, and you know, it’s a shame that we lost him. But yeah, he was great, and I mean he came from really, really humble beginnings. I mean dirt poor, crazy beginnings there for him. We’ve many of the great Hollywood actors who served their country really admirably. I mean even Scotty (James Montgomery Doohan), you know, from Star Trek. He was also a defender. Teddy Nappen 04:17 What was he in? Evan Nappen 05:03 Oh, he was military. I don’t remember exactly his background, but he was in some tough situations. He was known. Teddy Nappen 05:08 Page – 4 – of 13 Well, he was miracle worker. Evan Nappen 05:10 There’s so many of those guys, and I have a hard time trying to think of any modern actor that can maybe give that credibility to. I don’t know. Can’t think of any at all. Teddy Nappen 05:24 Unfortunately, I’m drawing a heavy blank because. Oh wait, no, no, no. Adam Driver. Adam Driver. I believe he’s the guy that played Kylo Ren. He did. I believe he was in the Marines. But he was a veteran. So, but anyways, one thing I will say as we were reviewing these stories, I love how the Attorney General has their own YouTube and they were just like streaming alerts and announcements. “Attorney General Davenport Files Civil Complaint Against Pennsylvania Gun Show Owner for Endangering Public Safety” (https://www.njoag.gov/attorney-general-davenport-files-civil-complaint-against-pennsylvania-gun-show-owner-for-endangering-public-safety/) So, that was what came up with the ad for Jimmy Stewart, and then there was this. Evan Nappen 06:08 Right. Showing a pretty good contrast. So, Davenport has filed this complaint against the Pennsylvania gun show owner for “endangering public safety”. They filed because they’re abusing the civil lawsuit. You know, this is one of the anti-Second Amendment ploys of trying to litigate the Second Amendment out of existence. And so, what they’ve done here is they’ve gone after Jordan Vinroe of JSD Supply and Eagle Shows. So, if any of you have ever gone to the great Pennsylvania gun shows, you know, they’re really good. Because first of all there aren’t any gun shows of any kind, really, in New Jersey. There’s some militaria shows, but there’s no gun shows. But Pennsylvania is, if you’re in New Jersey and you want to hit a really great normal type gun show, you go to Pennsylvania. And some of the largest, best shows are put on by this promoter. Teddy Nappen 07:24 The one that comes to mind, the Bloomsburg gun show. I think that was one we had gone to. Teddy Nappen 07:29 Yeah, Eastern Gun X. Eastern Gun X. Evan Nappen 07:29 Well, they have a whole series of shows. I believe they actually do some of the largest shows in Eastern Pennsylvania. Evan Nappen 07:30 So, they do some of these 1000 table, 2000 table, these really huge shows. And what happened is they’re going after him, claiming he is intentionally and unlawfully selling to New Jersey residents kits and parts to make ghost guns. Untraceable firearms that are illegal in New Jersey. So, what is this really? This really is a pretext to go after gun shows. This isn’t really about the ghost guns. That’s just their vehicle. This is really about trying to stop gun shows. If you go after gun show promoters, this becomes the idea of civilly litigating out of, essentially out of existence. If they can do it, they’d love to Page – 5 – of 13 do it. Gun shows. So, we really have not just a violation of the Second Amendment, where what’s going on in Pennsylvania is completely lawful in Pennsylvania. Ghost guns are the pejorative term for simply a privately-made firearm. Americans have been making their own guns since before we were even officially a country. So, private firearms are not the boogeyman. But, of course, they give it the boogeyman name of “ghost guns” and then claim they’re untraceable. Evan Nappen 09:14 Well, you know what? You tell me what firearm tracing has actually done to fight crime. Virtually nothing. It’s a lie that is perpetrated to give them a vehicle to make it look like they’re doing something about crime, which isn’t it, but more so to continue the agenda of oppression of Second Amendment rights. And here it is an attack on gun shows. That’s really what’s going on here. It’s not, you know, ghost guns, most gun. It ghost guns. Come on. First of all, anyone can build a gun with or without parts that you buy at a show anywhere. You can build a gun with pipes that you buy at Home Depot. Are we going to go after Home Depot because you can make slam bang shotguns easily, as we taught in the Philippines to do? Americans did that. You can. Evan Nappen 10:20 You know, “American Guerrilla in the Philippines”, a famous book, movie, etc. What do you think they made? Slam bang shotguns. You take two pieces of pipe. One pipe fits in the other. On the end cap of the larger pipe, you have a nail with the point facing down the pipe. The other one slides in it like a trombone. You put a 12 gauge shell in there, and you slam it down. And bang, off it goes. It’s called a slam bang shotgun. Sometimes called four winds shotgun. Teddy Nappen 10:55 Didn’t you? Evan Nappen 10:58 Yeah, I mean this is, and this is even in the Frankfurt Arsenal, the famous “Black Books”. They’re very easy. Evan Nappen 11:06 So, yeah, making a gun. They make guns in jails. They can make a gun. You can make them. So, this whole thing about privately made firearms and all is just a load of crap. Now, Jersey has banned “ghost guns” in a multiple ways. They talk about “unserialized firearms”. They talk about “manufacture of firearms”. They have different laws that address each of these things. All putting it under this category. And yet, under federal law, it’s not a problem to make your own firearm. Federal law even has regulations for if dealers get a privately made firearm, how to handle it and be able to actually lawfully sell it. They need to then take certain steps. We don’t have to get into that now. But it’s not a problem under federal law. It is a New Jersey, in this case, law that they’re attempting to use as a vehicle to bring the civil action against Pennsylvania. Something jurisdictioned in Pennsylvania, by claiming, oh well, you’re unlawfully selling to New Jersey residents. Teddy Nappen 11:06 Poor man’s James Bond? Page – 6 – of 13 Evan Nappen 12:23 Well, I’ll tell you what. How about we take a look at marijuana sales in New Jersey? Do Pennsylvania residents come into New Jersey and ever buy marijuana? Look, marijuana is unlawful for recreational use in Pennsylvania, and it’s federally prohibited. It’s still a federal controlled, dangerous substance. So, New Jersey acts to aid and abet and facilitate one of the largest unlawful drug distributions in the country. Whereas privately made firearms are not a federal prohibition. Not a federal prohibition. Should Pennsylvania sue New Jersey because of somehow Pennsylvania residents buying weed in New Jersey being facilitated by New Jersey? I mean, this is what they’re attempting to do. And yet here, not only is it not a violation of federal law, but it is really an attack on Second Amendment rights. And let me tell you that. Go ahead., Teddy. Teddy Nappen 13:30 I will also point out in the article. This is where the little trick is. If anyone ever listens to these people, they always do this trick where they start with a false premise when making their argument. “Ghost guns are frequently recovered at crime sites in New Jersey. Recent reports suggest that the number of ghost guns recovered in crime scenes increased eightfold between 2019 and 2022 — from 55 in 2019 to 433 in 2022.” Pause right there. I wonder. What happened around that time period where it caused people to want to have their own privately-made firearms and want to maybe 3D print and make their own? I wonder what little factor would have considered that. Secondly, all right, now show me the data of the amount of firearms recovered generally in crimes, and give me the percentage breakdown. Oh, it’s probably in the minuscule amount of percentages of firearms seized in New Jersey for crimes. Huh? I wonder. So, this isn’t that much of an epidemic, but we can’t show that, obviously. We won’t show that data. They just list off guns seized. Evan Nappen 14:43 Teddy, we are in a new day and age because of President Trump. And one of the things that President Trump did is actually create, through the Justice Department. They actually created in the Civil Rights Division of the U.S. Justice Department, the Second Amendment Section. Now let me tell you what the Second Amendment Section of the Civil Rights Division of the Federal Government Department of Justice. Let me tell you right from their website. (https://www.justice.gov/crt/second-amendment-section) The Second, Fourth, and 14th Amendments, the Police Patterned or Practice Act, and Executive Order 14206 protecting the Second Amendment rights, secure the natural firearm rights of law-abiding citizens, and ensure that such rights to keep and bear arms will not be infringed. The mission of the Second Amendment Section is to ensure that law-abiding citizens may responsibly possess, carry, and use firearms. The Second Amendment Section will work diligently to investigate law enforcement agencies that engage in a pattern or practice of infringing on law-abiding citizens’ Second Amendment rights. As well as be proactive in searching for litigation opportunities to secure such rights. Evan Nappen 16:19 The Second Amendment Section will also seek opportunities to advance a broad interpretation of the Second Amendment via statements of interest, motions to intervene, amicus briefs, and original lawsuits where applicable on behalf of Americans across the country. All attorneys within the Second Page – 7 – of 13 Amendment Section will advocate with zeal on behalf of the United States of America in furtherance of all objectives as tasked. And there, right at the website, at the Civil Rights Division, U.S. Department of Justice, the Second Amendment Section. You can go right online to that. We’ll have a link in the transcript. It says Section Information. Acting Chief Barry Arrington. “Report a civil rights violation.” So, listeners, if you see or hear or know of any civil rights violations on the Second Amendment, report them. Report them to the Federal Department of Justice. Evan Nappen 17:28 I think this is something that the DOJ should consider going on in New Jersey. Where you actually are seeing an effort to go after gun shows, which is our freedom of association, which is our ability. You know, if you can’t buy guns, then you’re not going to be able to possess and carry something you cannot obtain. Second, ghost guns are not a violation of federal law. Third, this is talking about interstate issues. This is New Jersey and Pennsylvania. What could be more squarely within federal jurisdiction than one state going after activities in another state because the state that is going after them has laws that infringe on the Second Amendment and trying to enforce it in another jurisdiction via this mechanism of being able to abuse civil laws. So, there is potentially a solution here. And not only just about what New Jersey is doing here, but what New Jersey does across the board in so many ways of oppressing our Second Amendment rights. Evan Nappen 18:58 Now, this Second Amendment Section has done a number of things already. They sued California to halt the Glock ban. They sued Virginia over their unconstitutional weapons ban, assault firearm so-called ban. They sued them. They opened an investigation, by the way, into Philadelphia Police Department’s unconstitutional permit revocation process. They’ve sued Colorado for their ban on so-called assault firearms and magazines. They sued the District of Columbia for their ban, and they’ve gone after the Virgin Islands Police Department for unconstitutional practices in effective denials of permits. That’s just a sampling of what the Civil Rights Division of the U.S. Justice Department is doing in the Second Amendment Section, and it’s time for New Jersey to be investigated. Because this has gone on for far too long in New Jersey. Our Second Amendment rights being trampled by New Jersey trying to do everything in its power to oppress Second Amendment rights. So, check it out, folks, and you will see that this is what happens when we say elections have consequences. Because this goes back to President Trump putting out his Executive Order, and you also have the Attorney General putting forward that they have their Second Amendment task force and setting up the Civil Rights Division. So, we can change how business is done. Evan Nappen 20:52 Because prior to this, the Government, even the federal Government, took at best a neutral position, but normally there was no infringement that was too much as far as federal enforcement. No problem. Turned the other, you know, turned away from it. Couldn’t care less. Those are no longer the days today, and this is where a wake-up call needs to come out on our Second Amendment rights. Let me tell you. Go ahead, Teddy. Yeah. Teddy Nappen 21:32 Page – 8 – of 13 Well, I was going to say. I was able to pull up Everytown’s research. (https://everytownresearch.org/report/gun-trafficking-crime-guns-new-jersey-data/) In 2023, New Jersey’s law enforcement seized 4,619 guns. So, going off of the data that the A.G. put out, that’s 9% of those firearms were “ghost guns”. Nine percent. It’s even less from those numbers. It is the level of insanity that these individuals pull. They’re just making a boogeyman out of something. That’s why. Evan Nappen 22:06 They’re the boogeyman and a pretext to try to assert their agenda. It’s really what we’re talking about here. Absolutely. Well, let me tell you about our good friends at WeShoot. WeShoot is an indoor range in Lakewood where Teddy and I both shoot. We love WeShoot, and so will you. They have the top trainers for New Jersey. They have the full array from novice to advanced. They have some just great training programs. You can get your CCARE certification there. That’s what you need in order to get your New Jersey carry. They offer CCARE courses. They also offer the ability to get non-resident permits in other states. So, if you travel, you can take care of that through WeShoot. WeShoot is a great resource. It’s a resource that we’re very lucky to have. It’s harder and harder to find places to shoot, and without places to shoot, you can’t do too much with your guns. And WeShoot is there for you. Take advantage of it. Evan Nappen 23:25 It’s a wonderful place. They’ve got a great pro shop. Great people, super nice, wonderful folks. They will bend over backwards to help you, and I’ve seen it firsthand. They’ve helped so many people to improve their skills, to learn about firearms, to learn the right way, proper way, how to be safe, how to be secure, and make sure that everything is done correctly. So that you don’t end up being a GOFU. So, check out WeShoot at weshootusa.com. That’s their website, weshootusa.com. You’ll be glad you did. Beautiful photography. They’re really first rate, and you’ll see why. They go the extra mile. Check out WeShoot at weshootusa.com. They’re conveniently located right in Lakewood, New Jersey. Easily accessible right off the Garden State Parkway. You can do it. Go over there, and you’ll say, “Wow, why didn’t I come here sooner? That’s weshootusa.com. Evan Nappen 24:44 Let me also shamelessly promote my book, New Jersey Gun Law. It is the Bible of Jersey Gun Law. You don’t want to be a GOFU. You need the book. It’s 120 topics, all question and answer. It’ll help guide you safely through the matrix of insanity called New Jersey gun laws, so that you can remain a law-abiding gun owner. That’s my purpose in writing it. You will see why it is the book used by lawyers, judges, State Police Firearms division, and beyond. If anybody who wants to know about New Jersey gun law, they always turn to New Jersey Gun Law by Evan Nappen. And if you want to get your copy, go to evannappen.com, EvanNappen.com. Order a copy, and you’ll have it within days. So, Teddy, what else do you have for us to discuss today? I’m going to toss the ball to you. Teddy Nappen 25:44 Well, as you know, Press Checks are always free. If anyone’s been watching the news or anything or seen all the push from the Left, the thing they keep trying to go back to is they’re trying to address the mail problem. That’s their actual quote from the election groups that they do. Where they’re trying to figure out how do we. Page – 9 – of 13 Evan Nappen 26:11 Is that Post Office mail or as in what is a woman, male? Teddy Nappen 26:16 You know. The white men, particularly, of the they have completely spurred off. One of the things that they’ve run into a foul, is you see this whole push where they try to reach issues, and they’ve gotten very, very quiet on the issue of firearms all of a sudden. Amazing, right? And even though you where you have like the James Talarico who’s still trying to tote gun control, but he’s trying to paint it off like, look, I’m for the Second Amendment. You know, I own a gun. All this. Evan Nappen 26:52 Oh, it’s the I’m for the Second Amendment, but. It’s always the but. Teddy Nappen 26:56 Always, but always, Evan Nappen 26:57 But we should ban guns. I’m for the Second Amendment. Teddy Nappen 27:01 But universal background checks, which will basically create a registry. Evan Nappen 27:07 But we should eliminate gun shows off the face of the planet. But we should ban any gun that’s over 12 inches long and call it an assault firearm. But ban any gun under 12 inches and call it a Saturday night special. Other than that, I’m for the Second Amendment. Teddy Nappen 27:23 Yeah, and you’ve been seeing that. Now you’ve noticed they’ve been losing a lot of ground to their “Democrat Socialists”. They’re just Marxists. If you look at the ideology of what they support, they are Marxists. Just go one to one. They are the same. They can’t dress it up any other way. So, I decided, you know what? Let’s see what’s on their page. What they actually feel about the Second Amendment. Because when it comes to Socialists now, they’ve kind of reached the they don’t know how to feel about firearms. They want to disarm the people because they believe in gun control, but they need arms for the revolution, always. So, it’s the gun owner dilemma for Socialists. Teddy Nappen 28:06 So, I go to their web page and what do I find? (https://www.dsausa.org/blog/the_second_amendment_is_a_threat_to_us_all/) This goes back to 2018, mind you. So, now they’ve gotten very quiet. “The Second Amendment is a threat to us All.” That is the opening title, and they still have it on there. This is their reaction to the Parkland shooting. So, America touts itself as being a meritocracy, and we laugh. But on firearm policy, it is truly need blind. No matter your age, race, gender, creed, or sexual orientation, your inalienable right to life is perfectly alienable to Page – 10 – of 13 keep guns pouring into public and private lives. Okay. Which is why we think the only way to guarantee that we dramatically reduce the acts of violence involving guns is removing guns from society. Pause. Logical fallacy alert, everybody! Ding, ding, ding, ding. Logical fallacy. Reverse Nirvana. If we got rid of all the guns, that would stop the crime. They always try to push that, and we have the oomph. Okay, yeah. Repeal the Second Amendment. That’s going to happen. This is from 2018. Nope, still haven’t done it. But they point to, I don’t know if you remember this guy Carl Rove? Evan Nappen 29:37 Oh yeah, Carl Rove, the pool shooter. Shooting at the pool? Yeah, yeah. After he’s anti-gun, but he uses a gun inappropriately even. Yeah, that guy, Mr. Hypocrite. Teddy Nappen 29:49 Well, they highlight his quote. The only way to guarantee that we drastically reduce acts of violence involving guns is to basically remove them from society. Well, okay then. Then they go through this whole twisted history where they point to the 1970s. NRA stopped being enthusiast group and became a defense industry lobby. Then the new blood came with the Gun Control Act of ’68, which aimed to restrict firearm ownership in response to the fears of the group. I love how they say this. The fears of the Black Panthers. Yes, that’s why the ’68 Gun Control Act was born. That was the only reason. They wanted to disarm the Black Panthers. No other reason of why they tried to push the ’68 Gun Control Act. Dad, do you remember that? What would you say from your view of what was the driver to the ’68 Gun Control Act? Evan Nappen 30:47 Oh my God! You know these people are just amazing, and as you see, they’re conflicted over their own platform. It’s crazy, Teddy. Teddy Nappen 31:02 Yeah, and well, they go even crazier. They go through this twisted history of rights. They go through Heller, basically determining you know the rights infringed, and they use Scalia’s answer. In Scalia’s admission, if we repeal the Second Amendment, private citizens could still own guns. The right to do so is granted to them by God or the English, whatever you’d like. Both Brett Stevens and Carl Rover certainly wouldn’t mind. So therefore, we’ve rewritten the Second Amendment. They wrote an amendment. They actually wrote. They wrote their example, the 28th Amendment, Dad. Here we go. The 28th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution that they pushed for. The second article, the amendment of the Constitution of the United States, is hereby repealed. Okay, that gets to that. Two – manufacturing, transportation, importation into or out of any state, territory, or possession of United States delivery therein of a pump action, semi-automatic or automatic firearms is hereby prohibited. Three – article shall be inoperative unless it shall be ratified as the amendment to the Constitution by convention of several states, as provided by the Constitution within 10 years, the date of submission here off to the state by Congress. Well, they want a con con apparently. But just going back to that, banning pump action, semi-automatic and automatic firearms, removing that from the Second Amendment, Dad. Evan Nappen 32:33 Page – 11 – of 13 Okay. Teddy Nappen 32:34 You can have your gun, but they must be manually loaded. Evan Nappen 32:36 Couple things. Number one, the Second Amendment is not our rights. It’s a guarantee of our rights. The rights to exist, whether or not we have a Second Amendment. But the Second Amendment is a guarantee against the Government of infringing on those rights. So, what they’re saying is, we want to revoke the guarantee of your rights and replace it with a lame-ass guarantee that we’re rewriting that won’t do anything except give us the opportunity to walk all over your rights. So, that’s really what they’re saying. But the really interesting thing here is this proposal to repeal the Second Amendment is all the anti-Second Amendment gun rights suppressor folks are going to have left. Evan Nappen 33:23 We are on the path with the Second Amendment having been empowered by Heller, McDonald, and Bruen. And now we have Viramontes and Grant that, in my opinion, are going to absolutely crush assault firearm semi-automatic bans across the country. They are losing ground left and right. There are over 3,000 filed legal actions challenging gun laws. They are on the run. They’re losing, and they know it. The only thing they have left is actually what they’re asking for here, and that is to repeal the Second Amendment. We will never let them repeal the guarantee of our rights, and that’s what we must insist upon. These are our rights, and they’re guaranteed. We want that guarantee enforced. And now that they see the guarantee is finally being enforced, they cannot stand it. They are losing, and they’re going to continue to lose. Teddy Nappen 34:31 I will say, I love the ending to the article where the individual. We are aware non-white and marginalized groups whose rights are routinely violated by the police may view this both as restricting and their ability to protect themselves or causing unwarranted searches and harassments for the criminal justice. We in no way support any measure that would increase the scope and scale of police violence. This provision outlined in amendment would have universal application. So, in other words, don’t worry. This affects everybody. There’s going to be no racial discrimination about enforcing these laws, Dad. Huh? Right. Cut to what was it? John Petrolino’s article where he pulled the data? Evan Nappen 35:19 Yeah. Exactly what we’re dealing with in New Jersey. Where blacks are already more than two to one discriminated against in just permit issuance. So, yeah, we know where this is. It’s just absurd. Teddy Nappen 35:31 Well, they literally go with the “trust me, bro”. It’ll be we’re not racist. We’re just gonna ruin it. We’re gonna screw it over for everybody. Evan Nappen 35:38 Page – 12 – of 13 But keep in mind, this is laughable right now, but it’s actually not. This is going to be the push that we’re going to see. It’s going to be a major push to repeal the Second Amendment. Because it’s all they have left, and that’s what we’re going to see. That and abusing the tort system in any way they can – civil actions. You know, to somehow create these abilities for trying to litigate guns out of existence. That and repealing the Second Amendment. That’s what they’re left with on their game plan. We just need to remain vigilant. Teddy Nappen 36:16 So, bear in mind. I will say, bear in mind, they still push for red flag in the other articles they’ve had. They still push for all the required measures where you have to get everything registered, and they’re still for limiting, removing ARs and anything they deem unsafe or scary. Evan Nappen 36:39 I hear you, and this is so typical. But we’re winning. That’s what’s important. We’re winning. Except when there’s GOFUs. GOFUs, as you know, are Gun Owner Fuck Ups. That’s where gun owners make big mistakes that cost them, technically, it could cost them their career, their family, their fortunes, their freedom. It’s bad news. So, you want to not be a GOFU. And what we like to do here is talk about GOFUs so that you don’t become one. You get to learn for free what others have paid dearly for. Teddy, what do you think the GOFU is this week? You know. What are we talking about? Teddy Nappen 37:26 Well, for me, the GOFUs are always about “stop talking to the police”. Evan Nappen 37:34 Oh my G-d. Stop talking to the police! Like, you know, we talk about basics. It is so basic. Shut up. You know you have a right to remain silent. Now, whether or not you have the ability to, I guess, becomes another question. But you have the right, and you need to stand on your right. You need to ask for your attorney and remain silent. You need to stand on your rights. And over and over again, we see clients that blow that and end up making their situation incredibly worse, incredibly worse. Because not only does anything you say can and will be used against you. Anything you say will be twisted against you. The safest, best route every time is standing on your rights. It’s that simple. And let me tell you, folks, if you’re ever read Miranda rights, oh my God, shut the f up! If you are read Miranda rights, sirens should be going off. Fireworks should be shooting. Flags should be waved. Shut up! Anyone who talks after Miranda, I just can’t even understand. They’re warning you. They’re telling you. Oh, you just wave your right. Oh, you’ll just talk to them. What are those silly rights they’re telling me about Evan Nappen 39:04 I’ll tell you one of the problems is – television. Television has conditioned many Americans to giving up their rights. Oh, I’ll just talk to them. I’ll just explain it. I’ll just yak away. And you know what? You end up burying yourself. Over and over and over again. I see it. I cannot believe it. If you are ever across one of those metal tables, being interrogated by police, and you’re talking, you are the world’s biggest GOFU. That should never happen. If you’ve been read Miranda, that talking across that table that should not be happening. If you let that happen, you’re a fool. You are absolutely a fool. I can’t make it any clearer. Page – 13 – of 13 Evan Nappen 39:55 It reminds me of Jan Davis. I don’t know if you know about her. (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/parachutist-plunges-to-death/) She was part of a movement to allow the ability to try to legalize base jumping at national parks. At Yosemite, she jumped off of El Capitan. Now, she was a pretty experienced jumper, and she did this as a protest. She was wearing criminal stripes outfit. You know the classic black and white stripes of the classic prison outfit, right? And it was to make a statement, of course. But it’s really a statement here because she jumped off El Capitan, El Capitan, and it was in 1999 as a protest against the ban. She was trying to make a statement that this is safe and should be allowed. She jumped, and ended up going splat. That’s right. Her parachute didn’t open. She couldn’t get it opened, unfortunately. My understanding is she had used some other equipment instead of her own. She didn’t know where the pull was on this particular one, and unfortunately, she ended up just going splat. Evan Nappen 40:19 To me, Jan Davis jumping off El Capitan there is what happens when you are read Miranda and talk. You ended up in a big splat like Jan Davis. That’s what you do. And keep in mind, she was wearing that prisoner outfit when it happened. So, folks, stand on your rights. Don’t be a good a GOFU. Don’t end up splattering yourself on the gun rights oppression and insane matrix of New Jersey gun laws. Should you ever be put in that situation – shut up! Evan Nappen 42:09 This is Evan Nappen and Teddy Nappen reminding you that gun laws don’t protect honest citizens from criminals. They protect criminals from honest citizens. Speaker 2 42:23 Gun Lawyer is a CounterThink Media production. The music used in this broadcast was managed by Cosmo Music, New York, New York. Reach us by emailing [email protected]. The information and opinions in this broadcast do not constitute legal advice. Consult a licensed attorney in your state. Downloadable PDF TranscriptGun Lawyer S5 E299_Transcript About The HostEvan Nappen, Esq.Known as “America’s Gun Lawyer,” Evan Nappen is above all a tireless defender of justice. Author of eight bestselling books and countless articles on firearms, knives, and weapons history and the law, a certified Firearms Instructor, and avid weapons collector and historian with a vast collection that spans almost five decades — it’s no wonder he’s become the trusted, go-to expert for local, industry and national media outlets. Regularly called on by radio, television and online news media for his commentary and expertise on breaking news Evan has appeared countless shows including Fox News – Judge Jeanine, CNN – Lou Dobbs, Court TV, Real Talk on WOR, It’s Your Call with Lyn Doyle, Tom Gresham’s Gun Talk, and Cam & Company/NRA News. As a creative arts consultant, he also lends his weapons law and historical expertise to an elite, discerning cadre of movie and television producers and directors, and novelists. He also provides expert testimony and consultations for defense attorneys across America. Email Evan Your Comments and Questions  [email protected] Join Evan’s InnerCircleHere’s your chance to join an elite group of the Savviest gun and knife owners in America.  Membership is totally FREE and Strictly CONFIDENTIAL.  Just enter your email to start receiving insider news, tips, and other valuable membership benefits.   Email (required) *First Name *Select list(s) to subscribe toInnerCircle Membership Yes, I would like to receive emails from Gun Lawyer Podcast. (You can unsubscribe anytime)Constant Contact Use. Please leave this field blank.var ajaxurl = "https://gun.lawyer/wp-admin/admin-ajax.php";

  Episode 298-NJ Assaulting Our Rights… Again Also Available OnSearchable Podcast Transcript Gun Lawyer — Episode Transcript Page – 1 – of 11 Gun Lawyer Transcript – Episode 298 SUMMARY KEYWORDS New Jersey gun laws, assault firearm ban, Supreme Court, Vera Montes, Grant cases, Assembly Bill 442, semi-automatic rifles, detachable magazine, draconian penalties, property rights, gun rights, sensitive places, reparations, We Shoot USA, gun owner mistakes. SPEAKERS Speaker 3, Teddy Nappen, Evan Nappen Evan Nappen 00:18 This is Evan Nappen. Teddy Nappen 00:20 and I’m Teddy Nappen. Evan Nappen 00:23 And welcome to Gun Lawyer. So, New Jersey is at it again. What, Teddy? Go ahead. What we gonna say, buddy? Teddy Nappen 00:31 Well, I was gonna say, you wouldn’t believe the stuff that they’re trying to cycle through on social media. They’re trying to now push the whole, “you’re afraid we’re going to take your guns away, and we’re afraid you’re going to take our children away. Which one is unfounded? Like it’s. Evan Nappen 00:53 Yeah! Which one’s unfounded, yeah. Well, being that the anties never give up, those that want to crush our rights and oppress us. New Jersey, of course, always has to lead the way on doing that. And so now, as we discussed last show, we’re all very excited at the Viramontes and Grant cases that are combined and have been granted certiorari by the U.S. Supreme Court. This means they’re finally going to get a decision out of the Supreme Court determining the constitutionality of so-called “assault weapon” ban. But what is New Jersey’s response when these things happen? They’re like the Iranians. When New Jersey makes their gun oppression policy, they act like the Iranians. They double down on threats. They double down on trying to convince us that they are just going to make life miserable for us, and they do it various ways. Evan Nappen 02:13 Their current response is essentially an assault firearm law radical enhancement. That’s right. So, here we realize that the entire concept of banning semi-automatic firearms is, my money is solidly on that is going up in flames. As we talked about before, this is finally, I believe, on the road to destruction. This whole political fight that has harmed so many good people. Ruined law-abiding citizens’ lives. Taken Page – 2 – of 11 their destroyed families’ fortunes, and taken away freedom and rights. This nightmare, I believe, is going to end. But it’s actually even more excitement over when that end might take place, that we’ll talk about in a little bit. In between, leave it to New Jersey to propose even more, even worse, even more draconian laws, particularly on the dreaded, intrinsically evil “assault firearms”. That’s right, New Jersey calls them “assault firearms”. Sometimes they’re called, in other jurisdictions, in federal law, “assault weapons”. Teddy Nappen 03:46 It’s a hoplosexual term. Evan Nappen 03:49 Yeah, you’re right. It’s a term that’s just concocted, so that they can make up lists of guns to ban and to make as far-reaching a ban to turn as many law-abiding citizens into criminals as they possibly can. So, New Jersey filed a new bill. It is Assembly Bill 442 . (https://pub.njleg.state.nj.us/Bills/2026/A0500/442_I1.PDF) This is New Jersey’s incredible doubling down on their assault firearm law, and I wanted to just go through with you. This law, because whether it’ll pass or not, who knows? Even if it does pass, this stuff I believe is going down in flames and will no longer be anything they can pass laws about. Dead. Gone. Done. Evan Nappen 04:50 Sort of like what happens when you enrage a bull elephant. You know, African elephants and Indian elephants are different. African elephants are extremely ornery, mean, tough. Republicans, you know, picked the elephant as their symbol. Sometimes I think about when we get the good elephant, when we get the African version of the elephant, and they actually do what’s needed. I think we’re going to see that here through the judicial system, which now has plenty of great judges, thanks to President Trump appointing conservative judges. The bull elephants of Africa, they do not just kill you. They eliminate you! They crush you and crush you and crush you until there’s nothing left. You can’t even be picked up with a stick and a spoon. That’s how much they disintegrate when they are riled up and attacking. I suspect that we are going to see the African bull elephant happen to this entire agenda of “assault firearm bans”. Evan Nappen 06:10 But until then, let’s look at what they want to do. Because if it doesn’t go that way, if it’s somehow upheld that these things can be prohibited and banned, and our rights can be walked upon in this manner, here’s what New Jersey is doing to the current “assault firearm” definition. Let’s actually look at what they’re saying. So, of course, we have the current law that we’re all familiar with. It has a list of 67 guns, and then they say “substantially identical” and that had never been effectively defined. We had case law that said “substantially identical” means the 1994 Crime Bill definition, which was amazing, since that was four years after New Jersey passed their law. How our legislators knew that an unconstitutional law would be saved by a federal law that was passed four years later, I don’t know. Somehow the court put that forward. We’ve lived under that for now. Page – 3 – of 11 Evan Nappen 07:08 But what they’re doing is they are now going to incorporate and define the specificity in the statute, the term substantially identical. By claiming that any of these above guns and platforms, you know, the 67 intrinsically evil semi-automatic firearms on that list, will now include under the term of “substantially identical” a semi-automatic rifle that has the ability to accept a detachable magazine. That’s step one. Any semi-automatic rifle that has the ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least one of the following features. So, currently we have a two feature requirement. This is now any one of these features, and your semi-automatic firearm that takes a detachable magazine becomes contraband. Becomes banned. Becomes unlawful for you to possess with no lawful way of possessing it. There’s no grandfathering in this bill. Evan Nappen 08:20 If you’re caught possessing it, the penalty is so draconian it defies belief. It’s up to 10 years in State Prison with a minimum mandatory, mandatory, minimum three and a half years in State Prison, no chance of parole. If you get convicted of possession of an assault firearm, even right now in New Jersey, no less this expanded list that we’re going to look at in a minute, we are talking about the judge having no discretion whatsoever, and having to impose at least three and a half years in State Prison. And folks, if you have an assault firearm and you’re possessing one, if you get caught with it, you’re looking at that penalty right now. Hopefully we’re going to get all this won, and I honestly believe we will. But just in case it doesn’t, or if you get nailed before that happens, you’re looking at insanity in terms of a prison sentence. Evan Nappen 09:16 So how does this new definition with one feature? What are the single features that make a semi-automatic rifle that takes a detachable magazine intrinsically evil and must be banned at the second degree, felony level, where you’re looking at 10 years and a minimum mandatory three and a half in prison for just having any one of the following features? Number one, a folding or telescoping stock. Wow, you know how important a folding or telescoping stock is when it comes to fighting crime. I mean, a telescoping stock that moves one or two inches back or forth. I mean, that’s like an entire crime wave into itself, right? If you have that feature on your gun, you’re looking at the offense I just outlined. Teddy Nappen 10:09 Wasn’t there a case, Dad. Wasn’t there a case that you had where if you had a folding stock, it was deemed an assault firearm? Evan Nappen 10:17 Well, that’s exactly what it is. A folding stock or telescoping stock currently is, but wait. Teddy Nappen 10:24 Yeah. Evan Nappen 10:24 One feature, though – just one. Try another, a pistol grip. If you have any rifle semi-auto that takes a mag and it has a pistol grip, it’s contraband. It’s banned. You’re looking at draconian sentencing and Page – 4 – of 11 punishment for your possession. Even though you lawfully bought it from a dealer. Even though you had a firearms ID card and went through all the vetting, went through a NICS check. It doesn’t matter, doesn’t matter one bit. You’re going to State Prison. If it has a thumb hole stock, one feature, a thumb hole stock. That’s all it takes. It’s an assault firearm. A second hand grip or protruding grip that can be held by the non-trigger hand. A second hand grip. Every rifle has a forearm that’s a second hand grip. What are you grabbing it with? Your dick? No, this is outrageous. It’s stupid. It’s a hand grip. Well, if your semi-auto rifle has a hand grip, it’s an assault firearm. Evan Nappen 11:37 A bayonet mount. Oh my gosh, a bayonet mount. That’s because of all the drive-by bayonetings, of course. If you have a flash suppressor or a muzzle brake, if you’re just trying to tame recoil, it doesn’t matter. A muzzle compensator. A threaded barrel designed to accommodate. If you just have the threads on there. A flash suppressor, a muzzle brake, or a muzzle compensator. They want you having lots of recoil on your gun, lots of recoil. Can’t tame that recoil. They don’t want you to have any accuracy in your shooting or ability to shoot without muzzle rise. I mean, what the hell? Insanity. It doesn’t matter. A grenade launcher. Well, if you have a grenade launcher, that’s one thing. Having grenades, that’s another. And can you believe they want to prohibit us from having grenade launchers? What about all of us that go out grenade launching on the weekends? I mean, that really sucks, doesn’t it? Yeah. Evan Nappen 12:39 Then semi-automatic shotguns. Let’s look at shotguns. A semi-automatic shotgun that has any one of the following: a folding or telescoping stock, a thumb hole stock, thumb hole stock on a shotgun? I don’t know, maybe. I guess they’re out there. Who cares if it has a thumb hole? It doesn’t matter. Thumb hole stock. Maybe some of those trap guns have some of the interesting designs that we sometimes see. Well, they’re going to be an assault firearm under this bill. A second hand grip or a protruding grip held by the non-triggering hand. A second hand grip. Well, folks, if your semi-auto shotgun, and this just says semi-auto shotgun, it doesn’t have to be mag fed, so my friends, if your Remington 1100 or you’re Remington 1187 or you’re Benelli or you’re Browning, you’re A5 or your standard good old reliable semi-auto shotgun that you inherited from your grandpa, if it has a forearm on it. Gee, I don’t think I’ve ever seen a semi-auto shotgun that doesn’t have a forearm on it, where you grip it with your hand, that shotgun becomes an “assault firearm”. Evan Nappen 12:58 What are they doing with pistols? A semi-automatic pistol that has the ability to accept a detachable. magazine and has at least one of the following. So, basically every semi-automatic pistol that uses a detachable magazine, which is, oh, maybe 99% of all pistols, right? Hence, what semi-automatic pistols are, which are, except for some exceptions, a few exceptions, they’re magazine fed. I know the Keltec uses the stripper clip deal into a fixed mag. Maybe you have an old broom handle that uses a stripper clip into a fixed mag, but short of that, just about every pistol out there immediately has the ability to accept a detachable mag. And if your pistol has a folding or thumb hole stock, and of course they’ll view a pistol brace as that, because New Jersey can interpret it their own way. A thumb hole stock. A second hand grip or protruding grip that can be held by the non-trigger hand. There are, of course, Page – 5 – of 11 larger revolvers, some that utilize even a form of a horizontal forearm. We’ve seen different grips that can go on other types of pistols. Evan Nappen 14:07 So, attention all fuds. Attention all fuds who think, who cares about “assault firearms”? It doesn’t affect me. Well, guess what? All your semi-auto shotguns with forearms become assault firearms overnight, if this bill gets signed into law. A fixed magazine capacity exceeding six rounds. The ability to accept a detachable magazine. So, if you have any semi-auto shotgun that uses a detachable magazine. It doesn’t matter how many the mag hold. If it can accept a detachable mag, it’s instantly an “assault firearm”. Teddy Nappen 16:22 Isn’t there a mod you can do for Desert Eagles? Evan Nappen 16:24 Sure. There’s all that stuff out there. You’re right. A capacity, now, here’s this. It’s just absolutely weird. Listen to this. A capacity to accept an ammunition magazine that attaches to the pistol outside of the pistol grip. So, if your pistol can hold, outside of the pistol grip, an extra magazine. It doesn’t mean that the magazine has to actually function. But if you have a handgun that has some capacity to hold an extra mag, then that’s an “assault firearm”. If your pistol has.. I don’t even.. I guess there are some.. Teddy Nappen 17:10 I think they’re referring to, you know, when you tape mags together, sometimes. Evan Nappen 17:14 I guess. Well, I don’t even know if that’s possible on a pistol. Or if you have some type of magazine holder that is somehow attached to a gun. I don’t even know what they are referring to. Maybe the Roneys. You know, where your Glock goes in the Roney, and you can have an extra mag up there that you can just grab. I don’t know. But if it can do it. Here’s a great one. A threaded barrel capable of accepting a barrel extender, flash suppressor, forward hand grip, or silencers. Oh, a threaded barrel. So, now, because your pistol has a threaded barrel and you just want to have a compensator on there, or extra barrel weight. Single feature. It’s an assault firearm. Evan Nappen 18:01 Any handgun with a manufactured weight of 50 ounces or more, when the pistol is unloaded. And then thrown in, I guess, for laughs, is a semi-automatic version of an automatic rifle, shotgun, or firearm. A semi-automatic version of an automatic. So, what are semi-automatic versions of full automatic firearms? Well, that’s going to now include, well, obviously your semi-auto Thompsons that are legal. They’re going to be illegal. Any semi- automatic. Then the entire class of ARs, right? That, of course, will fall under that. So, this isn’t even handguns. That’s just as a general catch-all that it’s any semi-auto. And most semi-autos are versions of what are otherwise full auto or select fire guns. Just about every semi auto rifle out there, you know. Very few that aren’t that. I mean, you may find some exceptions, but good grief. Look at the stroke of coverage. That isn’t even a feature bill, that isn’t even a feature bill. Page – 6 – of 11 Evan Nappen 19:23 Even if you have a semi-automatic rifle that used any kind of magazine. It doesn’t have to be a detachable magazine, anything, or a semi-automatic version of an automatic shotgun, rifle, or firearm. Wait a minute. Broom handles that we talked about not having a detachable mag would seem to be legal. But under this new bill, now they’re illegal, because broom handles also had a happy switch at a certain point. And a semi- automatic version of it is now going to be flat out illegal, even though it doesn’t use a detachable magazine. So, you can see how far back and how far reaching and how broad this insanity is. Teddy Nappen 20:12 Wouldn’t it also meet the weight category? Didn’t they say, like, what is it, 50 ounces or something? Evan Nappen 20:18 No, I think it’s under on that, but look, I’m not sure. I haven’t weighed a broom handle in a while, but hey, it could be. The bottom line, folks, is this is what they see as important to do. They see this as something that has to get done to us. To turn us all into criminals. Doubling down facing what is going to happen in the courts, and that’s where I really want to tell you. As crappy as this bill is, as insane and stupid as this bill is, the bottom line is we are positioned beautifully for the death of this insanity, finally, finally. And that’s not just because of Viramontes and Grant being decided by the U.S. Supreme Court, but our own cases that are currently in the Third Circuit Court of Appeals with the en banc panel. We’re going to see decisions coming out both on “sensitive places” and on “assault firearms”, and we’re going to see those decisions before we even see the Supreme Court rule in about a year on “assault firearms”. I believe within the next few months. Because we have a panel that appears to be one of the most respectful of the Second Amendments of any appellate circuit federal court out there, I believe we’re going to see our New Jersey suffering end sooner than even the Supreme Court’s death knell that should happen in June 2027. So, we have a lot to be positive about. The positive is this is really positioned to finally be crushed like a bull elephant smashing its prey into absolute oblivion, and I’m gonna be extremely happy when that day comes. And after that, my friends. Go ahead. What, Teddy? Teddy Nappen 22:30 Well, I’m just kind of thinking back to when you were starting off, Dad. Think to the New Jersey for the assault to the assault weapon ban, the original assault weapon ban, where that came into play, just thinking along lines of like what were the what was the arguments, and like what was the things they used as their tactics. Evan Nappen 22:50 Well, I can tell you, folks, the history. Back in late 1989. I actually become attorney in 1988. They passed the bill that became effective in May of 1990. New Jersey’s assault firearm ban. And I remember back then we did not have the Second Amendment established by Heller and McDonald and Bruen. We did not have the test of constitutionality with the historical analog requirements, etc. We did not have any of that. We didn’t even have a court declaring that the Second Amendment was an individual right. We all knew that it was a violation then of the Second Amendment, because we all knew what the Second Amendment meant. But we didn’t have the juice. The case law didn’t exist. Page – 7 – of 11 Evan Nappen 23:48 So, our approach at the time, which was initially successful, was going at the vagueness of the statute itself, which worked in Merrill. That’s how New Jersey’s law evolved when they brought the federal case over that. But we had arguments then, and it did turn thousands and thousands of citizens into criminals. and still does to this day. Looking now, years later, 30 plus years now later, we’re finally going to see the end of it. It’s been a long time coming, but we will win this. It took a long time, but what we’ve established in getting to this point will protect freedom for generations. And that’s something I’m proud of, because I was a small part of that. All of you that have fought for our rights are all part of it, and we’re seeing history right before our eyes. Evan Nappen 24:58 But you’ve got to know, you’ve got to understand that this law has been devastating to so many people. It has destroyed and harmed. It has caused far more harm than any firearm has actually caused in terms of the absolute destruction to law-abiding citizens. When you look at how small the numbers are for deaths and such from these particular guns, it’s minuscule compared to just how many people have suffered. And that’s why, my friends, after we get this victory, I want reparations for gun owners. That’s right. Reparations for gun owners who suffered under New Jersey’s tyrannical laws that destroyed, harmed, and took away rights. Listen, reparations here, we have real victims that are alive today, not generations ago. Alive now that have paid a price for this insanity by New Jersey, and they deserve reparations. We’ll be talking more about that after we destroy this horrible, most horrible of infringements. Calling it an infringement, actually, is almost doing it a disservice. It’s an atrocity, an atrocity passed by New Jersey. So, stay tuned. These are good times. I’m extremely cautiously optimistic for us, and you should be as well. Evan Nappen 26:43 Hey, let me tell you about our good friends at WeShoot. WeShoot is a range in Lakewood, an indoor range. It’s the range where Teddy and I love to shoot. It is a fantastic resource. You will love WeShoot. Many of you already shoot there. They have great training. They have great pro shop, and they can get you equipped. They can get you everything you need, so that you can stay sharp, focused, trained, and practiced with your gun,. Because if you don’t shoot your gun, what good is it? You’ve got to keep the skill set and keep your training. Make sure you’re on it. It’s super important. WeShoot is a great resource, right there in Central Jersey, conveniently off the Parkway in Lakewood, New Jersey. You can go to weshootusa.com. They have a great website. We love WeShoot, and so will you. Their training is first rate. Get your CCARE certificate so that you can get your carry. You can get advanced training or basic training. You can have the most fundamental. If you have someone in your family who doesn’t know a thing about guns, they can get their start the right way at WeShoot. If you have someone, maybe even yourself, that’s really advanced and want top of the line advanced training, they can provide you with those services there, too. They’re the best. So, check out WeShoot at weshootusa.com. Evan Nappen 28:29 And while you’re at it, make sure you get a copy of my book, New Jersey Gun Law. It is the bible of New Jersey Gun Law. It’s a book everybody uses, judges, lawyers, firearms division, you name it. It’s Page – 8 – of 11 the guidebook to help you from becoming a GOFU. You don’t want to become a GOFU and that’s one of the best ways of avoiding it. Knowing the insanity of New Jersey so you don’t get caught up in the traps that they lay for law-abiding gun owners. So, they cannot turn them into criminals, and then shout to the stupid general public to make it look like they’re doing something about crime when it has nothing whatsoever to do with it, except destroying their counter voter constituency. That’s the reality of what they’re about. So, be smart. Get a copy of my book at EvanNappen.com. Go to EvanNappen.com and get your copy today. Teddy, what else do you have for us? Teddy Nappen 29:33 As you know, Press Checks are always free, and there’s something that seems to be coming up more and more. As we know, the Left on their last legs when it comes to their attacks on our rights, particularly with the victories that we’re having, and the ones that we’re going to have in the Supreme Court, all the challenges. But I will give them credit as they get more and more creative and look for other ways to abuse. So, this goes back a year ago, and this was from Gun News Daily. This is under Platkin from the Office of New Jersey Attorney General. (https://gunnewsdaily.com/n-j-offers-free-decals-for-gun-free-zones/) They were offering free gun-free zone decals to establishments wishing to register as designated gun-free areas under the sensitive places law. So, they were actually trying to disarm you in the best way they can. Just getting a bunch of individuals who have their property, any place, storefronts, whatever, and say no. No guns allowed. Don’t defend yourself. And this brings into an issue that I find important. It is a clash of rights, where it is the argument of property rights versus our gun rights. And look, we’ve seen the abuse of property, where you have people coming on to it. You see the squatter issues, and you see many on that end. But when it comes to gun rights, which is our civil right, it’s something that I think is going to come to blows eventually, and I think this needs to be handled. Evan Nappen 31:06 Well, particularly after the Hawaii case, where now the vampire rule is unconstitutional. We’re going to see more regarding sensitive places when the Third Circuit Appeals decision, which should come out shortly on with Koons. The Koons decision on New Jersey’s sensitive places, and I’m excited to see what the panel has to say. But you’re right, Teddy. What they’ll try to do is they’ll try to pit property rights versus gun rights, and they’ll try to still encourage private entities to put up ” gun” signs. This way the clash between property rights and gun rights has to get figured out, because yeah, we have the Hawaii case that talks about places open to the public where the federal government cannot make a law regarding that. Evan Nappen 32:04 But a private entity still has the ability over their private property to decide who can go on it. So, they can say no shoes, no shirt, no service. They can say no animals, no whatever. There’s different things property owners, you know. But the line gets drawn over race because of civil rights. You can’t say no blacks or no Jews or no Hispanics. You can’t do that, but you can limit other things on your property. So, I believe strongly in property rights, and I also believe strongly, big surprise, in gun rights. But what happens is many times with rights there’s a clash of rights. Property rights and gun rights may have a clash here if a property owner doesn’t want guns on their property. Where do we draw the line? Does my right under the Second Amendment, my fundamental, God-given right to defend myself with the Page – 9 – of 11 most effective means, does that right that I have to do that, which is a right 100% established, no question about it. Does that right override or supersede a property owner’s property rights? And that’s where the antis will play that game. They’ll try to get property rights made superior to gun rights, but in reality, that should not be the case. It should be the opposite. Gun rights should be put on the very same plane as civil rights. It is a civil right, and I mean in the same way that you aren’t allowed to exercise racial discrimination, you also cannot discriminate against individuals that are exercising their Second Amendment right, their individual right to keep and bear arms. It belongs in the same class. Teddy Nappen 34:09 Just to go into, like, where the test would be needed for when it, if the Supreme Court ever took a case on this. Basically it would acquire the equal protection clause to where that falls into the category of strict scrutiny, where we’re in the grouping where it’s like you cannot discriminate race, religion, creed, and gun owner, effectively, where you well kind of like. Evan Nappen 34:31 I don’t know. I don’t know if that is a test that will be utilized or not. Because if it’s gun rights, then we have to go back to that historical analog, but when it comes to property rights and how far you can assert it, it’s somewhat of an open question. I can tell you this. Any business stupid enough to put a sign out there that no guns are allowed. So that you are effectively disarming every one of your customers. Get ready to get your ass sued off when a crime occurs in your place of business, and you disarmed the defender who could have otherwise defended themselves. You want that lawsuit? Because that’s what you’re going to get. That’s exactly what you’re going to get. So, think real hard before you put up a “no guns allowed” sign, because the “no guns allowed” sign is also saying sue me if a crime occurs here, and you couldn’t defend yourself. That’s also what that sign says, just not in writing on it. Teddy Nappen 35:37 Was there a case where someone was forced to disarm, and they were either shot or injured because they were disarmed? Evan Nappen 35:47 I believe there have been, but I don’t have them right at my fingertips. But I’ll tell you what. I don’t see a problem with that cause of action. I don’t see a problem because there is tort action in New Jersey called failure to provide adequate security. So, businesses have a duty to provide adequate security. If they ban someone who has a carry license from carrying a gun and protecting themselves, and they have a duty, which they do have, to provide adequate security, then I can well see an excellent civil lawsuit taking place under their duty to provide adequate security. In fact, making the premises less secure by taking away not just a permit to carry holder, but a trained permit to carry holder. And why do I say they’re trained? Because training, my friends, is part of getting your carry permit, isn’t it? In the Carry Killer law, what do they require? CCARE. You’re trained. Trained in what? Use of force. When you can and can’t shoot. Trained in what? How to shoot safely. You must pass and qualify. So, they are stopping state-qualified individuals who have a permit to carry from lawfully defending themselves, and then failing to provide adequate security to those people who they mandated disarm themselves. Good luck with that civil suit. Dumb ass business for putting that sign up. Good luck with that. Page – 10 – of 11 Teddy Nappen 37:34 I’m still waiting on New Jersey trying to force the where they require that class. I remember it was EveryTown was running those stupid classes for training them up for firearms, and it was just a long propaganda wing that they just go through all their talking points. There was barely any knowledge being taught in actually handling the firearms. I’m waiting for New Jersey to force you to take that particular course, so I guess that’d be another abuse to that as well. Who knows? Evan Nappen 38:07 And then those will be challenged too, but the good news is we’re making tremendous progress. I believe really great things are soon on the way here, and I mean within reach. It’s going to be great. But in the meantime, we still have GOFUs taking place, Teddy. We have Gun Owner Fuck Ups. GOFUs, as you know, are expensive mistakes that clients and others have made, and I want to always advise my beloved listeners, about these GOFUs. So that you can learn for free the mistakes that others have made. One of the GOFUs that we see a lot, and I mean a lot, folks, is not knowing what’s in your handbag. Not knowing what’s in your suitcase. Not knowing what’s in your briefcase. When I say not knowing, I mean forgetting that your gun is there. You may think, why would I ever forget that my gun is there? But oh my god, we get the airport cases. We get the folks that are visiting historical places where they have screening. We get cases where people are going to amusement parks. We have all these sporting events, entertainment events, etc. And they’re bringing their backpack, or they’re using a range bag or something that they had used to go to the range or something. Where they had traveled with a gun, and forgot. Evan Nappen 39:43 Folks, be extra careful. Just like Press Checks are free, it’s absolutely free for you to thoroughly and completely empty your purse, empty your bag, empty your suitcase, empty your briefcase, check every pocket. Make sure it’s empty, and then put in what you need. Make sure that you’re not carrying by accident a gun, a magazine, or ammunition. I’ve seen it all, and these things lead to criminal charges. Often they lead to you facing draconian penalties and losing your gun rights. Make sure that you double check any of these bags and make sure you know the places that you’re going as to whether you’re going to be security screened. Evan Nappen 40:40 I’ve had many clients say they walked up and they saw that there was a metal detector or screening taking place, and instead of just turning around, going back to the car, because they suddenly remembered they have it, they figure, well, I’ll just tell them about it. I’ll just be honest and say, look, I have it. What do you want me to do? GOFU. GOFU. If you do that, boom! Next thing you know, the police are involved. Don’t ever go through those security checkpoints of any type with any kind of firearm, accessory, ammo, or anything. It causes tremendous grief, and is one of the top GOFUs that we see every day. Evan Nappen 41:33 This is Evan Nappen and Teddy Nappen reminding you that gun laws do not protect honest citizens from criminals. They protect criminals from honest citizens. Page – 11 – of 11 Speaker 3 41:44 Gun Lawyer is a CounterThink Media production. The music used in this broadcast was managed by Cosmo Music, New York, New York. Reach us by emailing [email protected]. The information and opinions in this broadcast do not constitute legal advice. Consult a licensed attorney in your state. Downloadable PDF TranscriptGun Lawyer S5 E298_Transcript About The HostEvan Nappen, Esq.Known as “America’s Gun Lawyer,” Evan Nappen is above all a tireless defender of justice. Author of eight bestselling books and countless articles on firearms, knives, and weapons history and the law, a certified Firearms Instructor, and avid weapons collector and historian with a vast collection that spans almost five decades — it’s no wonder he’s become the trusted, go-to expert for local, industry and national media outlets. Regularly called on by radio, television and online news media for his commentary and expertise on breaking news Evan has appeared countless shows including Fox News – Judge Jeanine, CNN – Lou Dobbs, Court TV, Real Talk on WOR, It’s Your Call with Lyn Doyle, Tom Gresham’s Gun Talk, and Cam & Company/NRA News. As a creative arts consultant, he also lends his weapons law and historical expertise to an elite, discerning cadre of movie and television producers and directors, and novelists. He also provides expert testimony and consultations for defense attorneys across America. Email Evan Your Comments and Questions  [email protected] Join Evan’s InnerCircleHere’s your chance to join an elite group of the Savviest gun and knife owners in America.  Membership is totally FREE and Strictly CONFIDENTIAL.  Just enter your email to start receiving insider news, tips, and other valuable membership benefits.   Email (required) *First Name *Select list(s) to subscribe toInnerCircle Membership Yes, I would like to receive emails from Gun Lawyer Podcast. (You can unsubscribe anytime)Constant Contact Use. Please leave this field blank.var ajaxurl = "https://gun.lawyer/wp-admin/admin-ajax.php";

  Episode 297- SCOTUS Win on Assault Firearms Also Available OnSearchable Podcast Transcript Gun Lawyer — Episode Transcript Page – 1 – of 15 Gun Lawyer — Episode 297 Transcript SUMMARY KEYWORDS Supreme Court, assault weapons, Second Amendment, gun rights, New Jersey, NRA, firearm laws, Heller decision, McDonald, Bruen, reparations, gun control, concealed carry, Thomas Jefferson, gun lawyer. SPEAKERS Speaker 3, Teddy Nappen, Evan Nappen, Speaker 1 Speaker 1 00:11 Lawyer, Evan Nappen 00:17 I’m Evan Nappen. Teddy Nappen 00:19 And I’m Teddy Nappen. Evan Nappen 00:22 And welcome to Gun Lawyer. Well, my friends, I have to tell you, this is just one of the greatest moments in what I would have to say in our fight to destroy gun rights suppression. It is just a banner time right now. Absolutely, a crescendo at a moment here that I’m just so excited about. Truly, truly excited, no joke. The Supreme Court of the United States has granted certiorari, meaning accepted the case, so that it means there will be an opinion, a decision, a rule made by the Court finally on so-called “assault weapons”. (https://thereload.com/supreme-court-to-decide-constitutionality-of-ar-15-bans/) Evan Nappen 01:27 Yes, we’ve done it. We have finally gotten to where the U.S. Supreme Court is going to look at the impact of the Second Amendment on this issue. I can tell you that I’ve personally been battling and fighting in the state of New Jersey since it was first enacted in May of 1990. Looking back to those days, I remember just thinking, man, hopefully we’ll one day get the United States Supreme Court to deal with this issue. But back then there was no Heller decision. There was no Supreme Court decision that even said that the right to keep and bear arms was an individual right. We didn’t even have that back then. And when the anti-gun rights crowd embarked on this brand new approach, which it was at the time. Evan Nappen 02:38 To understand the history and where we are right now, why it just is so meaningful, you need to understand that the gun rights attack, the effort by our adversaries, to destroy our right to keep and bear arms, basically, in modern times, started after World War One. It was essentially imported here Page – 2 – of 15 from the U.K., from Great Britain. It had gotten its roots there, and it came across the pond like a cancer. It percolated to the point where by 1934 we ended up with the first National Firearms Act. Prior to ’34 but after World War One, you saw states passing state laws of what we commonly call gun control laws. And the gun control laws of those days first initiated through the ’20s, and we still have remnants of those laws still on the books, by the way, in New Jersey and other places. They were put forward by state legislatures and enacted, and those gun laws were mirrored and influenced and encouraged by what was taking place originally in Great Britain. Evan Nappen 04:22 These laws in America at that time period, and you may find this surprising, and it’s not meant to be bashing in any way of NRA. But they were even supported and promoted by the NRA at that time. The NRA had even put forward what were called the “model firearm laws”. They put model laws together that they wanted states to pass. The NRA saw its mission then in a naive, unfortunately, you know, very naive, as certain gun laws and such, that they would support. Now, since then, that’s not their position, and they’ve learned from this naive mistake. But it led to the 1934 Act, and we’ve suffered under that this entire time. It became the first national gun rights oppression law. Even at the time in the “American Rifleman”, you could read it, and they even praised it. They said, “Ah, and this is how they viewed it. You’ve got to understand, put yourself in the time. They said, “Ah, we’ve solved the gun problem in America.” We’ve passed this great national law, and now we’ve resolved it. We’ve solved it. We’ve addressed it. It’s done. And, of course, it was far from done. But for approximately 30 plus years, that was about it for our national laws on guns being passed. Evan Nappen 06:00 Then along comes the ’68 Gun Control Act, which built upon, to a certain degree, of course, built upon the NFA. We already had that national law and then the ’68 law. Then ’72 and then ’80s and ’90s, and etc. So that foundation got laid. And in between all this, what you mainly saw the fight as being, though, where the modern day focus, the modern day focus was handguns. I remember through the ’80s, before the invention, and that’s what it was, the invention of the “assault weapon” issue. It hadn’t been invented yet. Everything was, we only want to ban handguns. Handguns were the symbol of crime. Every news show on the major controlled networks, there weren’t any cables, you know. You just had ABC, NBC, and CBS, and you had their nightly news. And anytime they talked about crime, whether there was a gun involved or not, they always showed a handgun on the news screen anytime they talked about crime. So the propaganda was put there. Everything was about banning handguns, and the main gun rights oppression group of the day was known as Handgun Control. Handgun Control was a big group. You had players at the time like Pete Shields and others, and this is where the push was. Then along comes Josh Sugarman, who puts out his manifesto. Teddy Nappen 07:50 Closet hoplosexual. Evan Nappen 07:52 Right. His manifesto of the assault weapons and their accessories. And even in his manifesto, he writes that the American public will be fooled by this, because they don’t know the difference between machine guns and semi-autos. This lays the groundwork for this. And lo and behold, we have California Page – 3 – of 15 with Patrick Purdy and the massacre that occurred in that incident, and that’s all the blood they needed to dance in. Then the assault weapon laws became the biggest threat to our Second Amendment rights, and everything weirdly shifted, weirdly shifted, so that handguns, with the growth of concealed carry, which has been an amazing success for gun rights support. Handguns are not the big issue for banning, except for, of course, a modern day focus on Glocks, because they’re easily convertible, right? Except for that. You don’t see the push like you used to ban handguns. Evan Nappen 09:00 Of course, Heller took care of that as well. Saying you can’t. It’s unconstitutional to ban handguns, too. But the push on semi-automatic rifles under the contrived created term of “assault weapon”. They took the German of Sturmgewehr, which was the true original assault weapon, a medium power round in a long arm that’s designed for urban settings. It is select fire, both full auto and semi-auto. And causing this, creating this, and putting it with that scary “assault weapon” moniker to scare the public and sell it. And it was to their credit, to a certain degree successful. It was successful in a number of states that passed state laws, including New Jersey. They passed one of the one worst, most destructive, horrible gun laws that have ruined good people. We’ll talk more about that in a little bit. Evan Nappen 10:06 And even a federal law at one point through the 1994 bill that was a crime, which they call the Crime Bill, but I call the bill that was a crime. We had the first national assault weapon ban. That law sunset and went away in 10 years, which was 2004, and they’ve not been able to reenact another federal ban since. But that ban did end up living on, by the way, in the state of New Jersey, because New Jersey adopted the language of that to save New Jersey’s assault firearm ban from being declared unconstitutionally vague. Now that was started by a case that I did, State v. Merrill, where I had the law declared unconstitutional for vagueness because of the term “substantially identical”, which was undefined. What does “substantially identical” even mean? How can something be substantially and identical at the same time? It’s like saying almost exact. Nothing is almost exact. It’s either exact or it isn’t. And because of the vagueness of that term, it was found unconstitutional by Judge Michael Farron, Monmouth County. We knocked out the case. Evan Nappen 11:21 That case was then brought into federal court by the gun rights groups, and that’s where the Attorney General, in order to save it, adopted the 1994 federal crime bill standard that was feature specific. We still live by that today in New Jersey, as to what makes a compliant gun or not, as to the definition of “substantially identical”. The court said, well, now that you know the definition, it’s no longer vague, and therefore it’s constitutional, which is, of course, a judicial lie, a fallacy, a falsehood. Because what that means is that somehow in 1990 our legislators passed an unconstitutionally vague law that did not have definition and somehow knew that in 1994 the federal government would pass a law that defines the undefined law in New Jersey. That’s just ridiculousness squared. But nonetheless it is law, at least as it stands in New Jersey now. We saw other states and other counties constantly push on the so-called “assault weapon” ban, a focus being on the big bad AR-15. We’ve had fight after fight. Page – 4 – of 15 Page – 5 – of 15 Evan Nappen 12:35 And as our battle for Second Amendment rights continued through the courts, we got the trifecta. We got the Heller finding of what we all knew in our hearts was true, that the Second Amendment is an individual right. We got McDonald, which said this doesn’t just apply to the federal government, it applies to all states and localities. And then we got Bruen that laid out the test of constitutionality and gave us the requirement that carry permits must be issued, must be issued. With that buildup of having the trifecta, we’ve now gotten more cases from the Supreme Court that solidify this approach. And just now, in this moment in our lifetimes, the Supreme Court has finally accepted the challenge to the bans of so-called “assault weapons”. The name of the case. Teddy Nappen 13:36 Particularly those two cases. Evan Nappen 13:39 Yes, Viramontes v. Cook County, and Grant versus Higgins. Now, those cases, the Cook County case is the Illinois’ local county. It’s a local assault weapon ban ordinance, just an ordinance banning. And then the other case they took was in Connecticut, which is a statewide ban. Why do that? Well, what’s great is they’re going at anywhere and everything, whether it’s local or state. The challenge is across the board, as per McDonald. It’s incorporated both local and state. So we now have a certiorari grant combining two cases, and it isn’t just limited to Connecticut and this one local county in Illinois. Their decision will reach all localities, all states, and stand in the future with our win, that I am confident we will win, to stop future federal laws on this. Here’s the actual. Go ahead, Teddy. Teddy Nappen 14:52 I will point out that this is just something the we. I always keep an eye on, like all the arguments the Left always do. I always love the ad hominem attack, where they say. Well, this is just some Second Amendment Foundation (SAF), which is they are a party to both cases. (https://saf.org/supreme-court-grants-cert-in-saf-assault-weapons-cases/) They’re the ones that brought the cases. Second Amendment Foundation was joined by the Firearms Policy Coalition. They brought the Vermont. Evan Nappen 15:16 And second Amendment Foundation. Teddy Nappen 15:17 And Second Amendment Foundation, along with the Connecticut Citizens Defense League. They always try to say. Evan Nappen 15:21 Teddy, there are also individual plaintiffs that are very important, that have standing, that have gone this distance. So, this is actual people and organizations. Teddy Nappen 15:32 Yeah, astroturf. Page – 6 – of 15 Evan Nappen 15:32 Yeah, well, astroturf, that’s a joke. Teddy Nappen 15:36 Yeah, but that is. Evan Nappen 15:37 I mean. Yeah. Go ahead. Teddy Nappen 15:40 Just to take that in. Throughout history, just look at the cases throughout, like some of the major Supreme Court cases. I think it was, what was it, either.. I think it was like maybe Plessy versus there was one regular Supreme Court case where it was brought by the, the.. it was about segregation. It was the train companies, where they’re trying to make sure they didn’t have to make extra cars for separating blacks and whites. And it was brought, and they actually set it up to have the case, to get the individual arrested for the segregation. It’s not the first time you’ve had organizations, and that’s throughout all, like a vast majority of cases where you have other. Evan Nappen 16:22 Listen, Teddy. Astroturf? Rosa Parks was a setup. Rosa Parks at the back of the bus, racial segregation. What do you think? It was engineered to make the challenge! Yeah, so don’t give me that. You want to put the issues forward and get the issues decided. Good, good. They have actual plaintiffs. They have actual people that are suffering under these laws, and they have organizations that represent vast amounts of members. It’s fine. It’s real. The assault firearm bans are real, and in New Jersey, their impact has been one of absolute destructive power. But let me just tell you what the court, just to close this, so we know exactly what they’re going to decide. Here is the question presented that they have granted certiorari on. Here it is, ready? Whether the Second and 14th Amendments guarantee the right to possess the AR-15 platform and similar semi-automatic rifles. This is great! One of the criteria that the antis are going to use, is they’re going to say, well, it has to be arms that are commonly possessed. Well, the AR-15 is the most commonly possessed rifle in America. As a matter of fact, folks, there are more AR-15s than there are Ford F150 pickup trucks! Let that sink in. Teddy Nappen 18:08 That was the other argument I’ve been seeing from The Trace. (https://www.thetrace.org/2026/06/assault-weapons-bans-supreme-court-2a/) They just did their whole, you know, boo hoo, whining, and crying. It was from Chip Brownlee. Guess the first thing they highlight? This is the fight for the dangerous and unusual AR-15. Like that’s the common use. That’s the spin that they’re going to use. They’re trying to lay the groundwork on, is that whole idea of. Evan Nappen 18:34 Well, you know why? They don’t have historical analogs under the Bruen test anymore, that can help them. Their analogs have had their legs cut off. The one they loved was about the Black Codes, where they banned blacks from Bowie knives and guns, or whatever. And Alito, just in the recent opinion, made it clear that’s a tainted relic. It can’t be taken seriously. So, forget it. That analog is out the Page – 7 – of 15 window. They just revealed, based on research by Stephen Halbrook, that the precedent claimed for carrying – as a matter of fact, this was even in Kuhns. One of the precedents relied upon by the court was a law that never was a law. It was simply something in some Frenchman’s book that talked about it. But the actual law was not how they’re citing it at all. Their analogs are fraught with fraud, fraught with being completely tossed in the garbage can, and they know it. When it comes to that Bruen test of history, text and tradition. In order for a law to be upheld and found not to be unconstitutional under the Second Amendment, the Government has the burden of showing the past analogs that there were other laws that were like that law that make this new law acceptable. And they don’t have that. They do not have it. So, they’re falling back, Teddy, to it’s not common use. Well, that’s falls flat on its face. They’re falling back on what? What’s the classic? Why don’t you tell us? What’s the classic when all else fails for them to cry about? Teddy Nappen 20:34 Blood In The Streets. That’s Blood In The Streets. They always cite two BITS. We have to consider the gun violence when considering this. All that goes right to Brown. Evan Nappen 20:43 Public policy. They always go back to the public policy arguments, public policy, and guess what? That doesn’t cut it! That doesn’t justify infringement of the Second Amendment. That argument is dead in the water. It’s not the test. It’s not a balancing test. Balancing tests aren’t allowed. Done, dead, gone. You can’t balance public policy. Can’t do it anymore. They know they’re going to be crushed, and I cannot wait for that day. I cannot wait till, at the latest, it’ll be next June. We’re going to have a decision that removes finally. I know it in my bones. Gets rid of, ends this travesty called the “assault weapon” ban. Let me tell you something. These laws have destroyed good people. These laws have created more harm than they claim the firearms themselves have created, especially in states like New Jersey. Evan Nappen 22:00 It isn’t just that an individual can’t have that gun or this gun. It’s the aggressive insanity of enforcement destroying people’s lives. If you get convicted of possession of an “assault firearm” in New Jersey, right? An AR-15 that has a bayonet mount on it and a pistol grip. You are now guilty of possession of an “assault firearm” because of a bayonet mount. You’re looking at 10 years in State Prison with a minimum mandatory three and a half years. No chance of parole. Three and a half years – minimum mandatory, folks. No way around it. No way. If you’re convicted of that, the judge has zero discretion. You can be Mother Teresa, and you’ll have to get three and a half years minimum mandatory in State Prison because you had a gun that had a bayonet mount and a pistol grip. You can only have one offending feature, and the pistol grip is one offending feature, right out of the box. And you had two because your other one was a bayonet mount. You know how important bayonet mounts are to crime. I mean, come on. What about all the drive-by bayonetings we have to take care of here, right? Folks, that’s how they.. Teddy Nappen 22:00 I think you also. Just looking at the future, because from the facts of where everything’s lined up, yeah, we’re going to win. And just seeing that right now, the way things lay out, I look to. Page – 8 – of 15 Evan Nappen 23:45 Well, we don’t want to be overconfident, but we. Teddy Nappen 23:48 I understand. Fine, cautiously optimistic. Evan Nappen 23:52 But I am cautiously optimistic. I am incredibly cautiously optimistic with an emphasis on optimistic. Teddy Nappen 23:59 I always look to what is left of their, what would be the next step, then on there on the gun right suppressionist? Because the only thing I could think of is they’re just going to try to put. Evan Nappen 24:09 Wait, wait, wait. Hold that thought for a minute. I just want to finish about the other destruction that has occurred. Like I said, it’s not just that you get arrested and you’re charged with assault firearm. Then you’re thrown in the Gulag, and they want to hold you until your trial. You’re going to spend at least a week, even if your lawyer can get you out before your trial. You have that fight. Then they use it as a licensing disqualifier. If you had an assault firearm, you’re banned from ever having guns again. It doesn’t matter. It’s an assault firearm. On top of that, they have made assault firearm possession not releasable under the Gulag. Remember, we’ve talked about this. It becomes a criteria where there’s a presumption for you to be held in jail. Presumption in favor all over this nonsense. So, you see it’s far-reaching, and what happens when someone inadvertently gets involved in this? Your life gets destroyed. You lose your career. You lose your family. You can lose your freedom. You lose your gun rights, and it’s devastating to people. And then there are those that are doing hard time because they are otherwise lawful possessors. It doesn’t matter. They’re doing the time, having their life destroyed, and having been turned into felons. Evan Nappen 25:40 So, let me just say this. After this decision is a tremendous win for our gun rights and for civil rights, because it’s in the same category as the First Amendment, folks. It’s in the same category as a fundamental right under the Bill of Rights. What I want to see after that decision is reparations to gun owners. That’s right. Reparations to gun owners. You know, they talk on the other side about reparations for slavery to generations later that were never slaves, and they want reparations. Here we will have reparations to individuals who are still alive and have suffered. To anybody that had to give up one of their guns that never should have had to. To those that went into the Gulag and suffered that never should have. To those who have done State Prison sentences that never should have. To those who have lost their gun rights, who have had their families, their lives, their freedom, and their fortunes, all destroyed. Reparations to them. Wait till after this decision comes down. Then we push for reparations. We don’t let it end. Oh, sure. Is that difficult? Will it be hard? Yeah, but it’s no more hard, and frankly, less, way less, of an ask than those asking for reparations for slavery, where we don’t even have the victims of that alive today. Page – 9 – of 15 Teddy Nappen 27:09 It’s also very easy to quantify, because you go into just the legal fees that were brought, the time in jail. Plenty of people have sued and won on those cases. So, it’s something you can actually determine, as opposed to generational racism. It’s ridiculous, as ridiculous sounds, but to this end, where someone who had their life destroyed because of the gun control that they have pushed over the years. Evan Nappen 27:39 That was utterly a violation of our fundamental rights and Second Amendment civil rights. It absolutely is going to lay groundwork for at least tremendous litigation, and really we should have eventually a federal reparations law requiring states to pay that ever had these laws. To compensate individuals who suffered under their tyranny. So, Teddy, you had something else to mention. I know you did. Teddy Nappen 27:39 Yes. So, the one thing I was looking at, whenever I always look to our opponents, because I try not to think of them as being stupid. Even though they are pretty retarded on a lot of different fronts, but they always keep pushing. And I remember this term for it, of what they were described. The Left and the Marxists are line steppers. They go with the idea of what can we get away with, what can we push for, because they always go for that. It’s always just progressivism for progressive sake. Cut to trans ideology. Cut to, you know, we’re going to take your children away and then transition them. Cut to any form of the Left in its insanity. Teddy Nappen 28:16 I always think what will be the next push, and I can see it right now. Repealing the Second Amendment will be the next step. Evan Nappen 28:16 100 percent. Teddy Nappen 28:36 Yes, that will. That’s the only. The only thing I can think of is what they did to Penny, what they did to all the other self-defense cases that we’ve had. Fine, you can have your firearms, but if you ever use them, we will drag you through the courts. We’ll make your life a living hell. We will make it so that people will want to murder you and come to your house and dox you. That’s the only thing at this point. That’s all they have. They are the party of violence, that is shown. You have doxing websites they run. That is the only two avenues I can see for that, and also suing the gun shops into oblivion, which we need to do something with the, I think, what is it, the PLCAA, where it’s the protection. Evan Nappen 29:59 Yeah, PLCAA. (Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act) Right. Teddy Nappen 30:02 We need to improve and expand PLCAA, and just say no. Stop wasting the state’s money. So, I don’t know what the test would be, but we need to. Page – 10 – of 15 Evan Nappen 30:12 Well, the fight will definitely change, and you know, the gun rights oppressors are not going to give up. But. Teddy Nappen 30:21 Of courses not. Evan Nappen 30:21 It will absolutely take away one of their actually most successful modern gun rights oppression tax. This will be one of. This will destroy what has actually been one of their areas of success, to be honest. They have succeeded in multiple states, and even at one point federally over this. This will destroy it, kill it, and they’re going to be knocked back on their heels very hard by it. And then we need to finish the job. Evan Nappen 31:00 Repeal Hughes Amendment. Evan Nappen 31:01 We need to go at reparations and make it so that when any of these governments decide to embark on rights violations, that down the road we make them pay. We just don’t kill the law. We just don’t knock it out, so that it no longer has effect. We have to make them pay for what they did to good people, and we do that through reparations. Teddy Nappen 31:29 We should also repeal the Hughes. Amendment. Evan Nappen 31:31 That’s going to build. Once you get this case, then, of course, the rest of NFA, any other hardware bands, all these things are going to be on the table. We will have even stronger, better case law to take it all out as the house of cards built by the gun rights oppressors collapses. Hey, and by the way, let me tell you about our good friends at WeShoot. WeShoot is a range in Lakewood. It’s where Teddy and I both shoot, and that is, of course, where we get our training. And I want to tell you that they are offering New Jersey concealed carry, so you can get your CCARE so you can get your carry permit out of Jersey. They have a new price for their CCARE. It’s incredible. It’s only $225! You can sign up at WeShoot and get their carry course, and it is great. You’ll get your PTC certification, and they really set the gold standard there at WeShoot. You’ll be able to get re-qualification, too. This is the training that police departments use. They’re also USCCA and NRA backed courses. It’s all combined. This is where you can reserve and get it done, so you can get your carry. Evan Nappen 33:03 Particularly now where we’re knocking out “sensitive places”, as we just did with the Wolford case, which actually impacts New Jersey “sensitive places”. We’re going to see more and more availability of where we can carry, and every carry permit holder is another vote for carry. Probably by now, we are well over 100,000 carry permits in New Jersey. You know, it used to be 600. Literally just 600 carry Page – 11 – of 15 permits. Not 600,000. Six hundred. And now we’re in the 100,000 or damn close, if not over it, of permit carriers. I just showed you how their oppression law was so successful before, and after Bruen, it’s dead. Evan Nappen 33:50 So, go to weshootusa.com. Check out We Shoot, and I know you’ll love WeShoot, too. They have great training, and not only can you get your New Jersey permit certification, your CCARE, but they also offer special training to get that for seniors, 65 or older. They have a special deal for seniors – only $185. You can get your training there. They also offer New York City non-resident carry. They are offering New York City non-resident carry. They have it at a fantastic new low price of $289, and you can get your New York City carry, which also covers New York State non-resident carry permit. They’ll do all the training, and this is really great. Anthony Zalo will be doing this course. It spans two days, and it covers firearm safety and storage, pistol ammunition basics, de-escalation techniques, federal and state law, live fire training. If you’re seeking even more certifications, they offer Maryland Wear and Carry Certification, as well as Washington, D.C. carry permits for just $150 each. On Tuesday, August 4, they will be holding their New York resident and non-resident carry courses. Evan Nappen 35:37 WeShoot also has Civilian Shoot House Training. This is really cool. Their Civilian Shoot House Training, so you can understand how to clear rooms, move with purpose, and make decisions under pressure. This is great for homeowners and parents and security team. Anybody who’s serious about protecting their home and community, check out WeShoot’s Civilian Shoot House Training. They have that scheduled out. You can sign up for Friday, July 31st for that Training. They also have adult CPR / AED and Stop the Bleed, so that you know how to treat wounds. They’re offering that training on Monday, July 20. And for new shooters, they have great training called “From Nervous to Bullseye”. If you’re entry level, you want basic training. Here’s what you can do. They’re also offering weekend classes, and you can “Hit Your Weekend Target” with their great instructors – Grant Gallagher, Tony Zollo, and Lance Hubeny. They’re all there. Sign up at WeShoot. They are a phenomenal resource. We’re talking here about WeShoot in Lakewood. They offer USCCA and Sig Sauer Academy – “Close Quarter Defense Fundamentals. I mean, can you believe this? Just fantastic training. Make sure you check out weshootusa.com. You’ll love the range, you’ll love the pro shop, and you’ll love the people. They are the best. Go to weshootusa.com today, and take a trip down to Lakewood. They are right there in Central Jersey, conveniently off the Parkway. You’ll be glad you did. Evan Nappen 37:40 Let me also shamelessly promote my book, New Jersey Gun Law. It’s the bible of Jersey Gun Law, and you need to get your copy today. Go to EvanNappen.com and get a copy of New Jersey Gun Law. It’ll help keep you from being a GOFU. Hey, we are now celebrating, of course, the 250th Anniversary of the signing of the Declaration of Independence. This is a great moment in our history where that fantastic, earth shattering, world changing, humanity changing, document was signed and began the birth of our wonderful America, the greatest country on earth. I have nothing but reverence for our Founding Fathers and our Founding documents, and celebrate 100%. Page – 12 – of 15 Evan Nappen 38:48 Let me tell you about the author. Of course, the Committee of Five technically authored The Declaration, but the majority of the credit is given to, and I hope you know this, Thomas Jefferson. But let me tell you about how great Thomas Jefferson was. Not just because of his phenomenal presidency, his assertion of our national reputation against the Muslim pirates, the pirates of the day, standing up to them, and also the Louisiana Purchase, and so many amazing things under Jefferson. And, of course, the Declaration of Independence. But let me tell you something else about Thomas Jefferson. I want you to know, when it comes to firearms, Thomas Jefferson was one of us. He couldn’t be more one of us. Thomas Jefferson was one of the greatest gun owning founding fathers to live. Evan Nappen 40:04 And let me read you, especially on the 250th Anniversary of the Declaration of Independence. The man who wrote that and made us so where we are today, we can be proud and free. Listen to some quotes from Thomas Jefferson, specifically about guns. Here’s a great quote from Thomas Jefferson. “No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms.” Yeah, he said that. No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. That’s from Thomas Jefferson in the Virginia Constitution draft of 1776. Here’s another phenomenal quote by Thomas Jefferson. “I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery.” Let that sink in, folks. He preferred dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery. He wrote that in a letter to James Madison in 1787 . Here’s another great quote from Thomas Jefferson. “What country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance. Let them take arms.” That’s right. Enemies, foreign and domestic, my friends. You heard what Jefferson said. Evan Nappen 41:40 “The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes . . . Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.” Pure common sense spoken by Thomas Jefferson in Commonplace Book, quoting the 18th century criminologist Cesare Beccaria. Here’s another quote from Thomas Jefferson. “A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball, and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be your constant companion of your walks.” Let that one sink in, folks. Thomas Jefferson, in his letter to Peter Carr from August of 1785. Evan Nappen 42:27 “The Constitution of most of our states (and of the United States) assert that all power is inherent in the people; and they may exercise it by themselves, and that is their right and duty to be armed at all times. Let all those quotes from Thomas Jefferson sink in. Think about them as we celebrate the 250th Anniversary of the Declaration of Independence and the man that was the chief engineer of that document and how that man viewed our Second Amendment rights. Page – 13 – of 15 Teddy Nappen 43:43 I will also say, like, I don’t know if you did. Did you ever get to go to Monticello? Did you and Mom get to go? Evan Nappen 44:09 Thanks for mentioning it. No, that is on my bucket list, and I’m going there. My wife went. You’ve gone. Teddy Nappen 44:18 No, I didn’t. I didn’t get to go. Evan Nappen 44:20 What? You didn’t either? Teddy Nappen 44:20 Nope. Just Mom. Evan Nappen 44:21 Teddy, you and I have got to go. Teddy Nappen 44:23 Just Mom got to go. That’s why. Evan Nappen 44:25 This is just wrong. I’ve got to go to Monticello. I’ve meaning to get there. And it’s bugging the hell out of me. Teddy Nappen 44:33 If you ever do go there, they have his pistols. His famed pistols that were, I think, gifted to him. (https://www.monticello.org/encyclopedia/firearms) Yeah, his famed twin pocket pistols that were gifts from, I believe it was a pair of Turkish pistols received from General Isaac Zane in place of a monetary bequest. Evan Nappen 45:07 Bequest. He gifted him these pistols. Teddy Nappen 45:11 Okay. Evan Nappen 45:12 Yeah. Teddy Nappen 45:14 It was also kind of interesting that Jefferson loved to go out and do competition shoots. He would do a lot of them, and he was a fairly good marksman. There were marks in his letters showing that he noted Page – 14 – of 15 in his accounts, I won a shooting in one of six, it was a muster with Captain Jacob Moon’s Albany County Militia Company. He lost two to six, but as he grew older, his limited exercise. He moved more to firearms and hunting over his horseback riding. He even had designs, and there was accounting of a double-barreled gun lock that he had drawn. So, there’s various other bits in his accounts. Evan Nappen 46:01 Like I said, he’s one of us, man. One hundred percent. Hey, this is wonderful, an incredibly important part of our heritage and our tradition. Jefferson stands tall. All the Founding Fathers were, of course, gun owners and knew the importance of arms, but Jefferson is special, without a doubt. Jefferson is special. Evan Nappen 46:32 And you know, Teddy, I want to tell you about this week’s GOFU. This is a GOFU that every time in the practice of gun law, there’s something new. Some other GOFU that I’d not even heard about before, and it just blows me away. It constantly gets crazier and worse, and I want everyone to understand this GOFU, which is, of course, a Gun Owner Fuck Up. Where individuals are now experiencing expensive lessons, or have experienced expensive lessons that you can hopefully avoid for free by listening to Gun Lawyer. Evan Nappen 47:16 So, this week’s GOFU concerns the following. We have a couple, a husband and wife, that are not getting along well with one another, and okay, it happens, right? It happens. Well, it ends up where at some point there’s a fight, and like the old kind of comedy issue you’ve seen on TV, where often it’s the woman, it doesn’t have to be, but often is, throws the husband’s clothing or the belongings out the window to get out. That kind of a thing. Well, in this case, apparently his firearms were tossed out onto the lawn. I guess it sends a message as to throwing out things that the other party believes they care about. But whatever. I’m not going to get into the psychology of it. The bottom line is that this takes place. What happens? Well, it ends up where the police get involved. The police get involved because it falls under the so-called banner of domestic violence. Anytime there is domestic violence, police are called in over any claim of domestic violence, and it’s so broad. Remember, domestic violence could be anything, even harassment, which the essence of which is doing something to purposely annoy another. Now, I know none of you have ever purposely annoyed your spouse or your boyfriend or your girlfriend, but if you did, then you arguably committed domestic violence for harassment. Evan Nappen 48:57 Anyway, that can bring the police into your lives, and this is where you get to live the famous saying of Ronald Reagan. “We’re here from the Government, and we’re here to help.” And, of course, that was one of the best, most sarcastic things that Reagan ever said. Because we’re here from the Government and we’re here to help, is of course the exact opposite. And that’s what happened here. The Government gets involved, and both parties are questioned over various allegations. It doesn’t matter what. The bottom line is that the domestic violence forms are filled out where the issue is documented, and the wife is asked, do you want a restraining order? And she wisely says no. This is internal. They’re squabbling, or whatever. She doesn’t need a restraining order. The husband, who related his whole side of everything there too, is asked, “do you want a restraining order? And he wisely said no, as well. Page – 15 – of 15 Evan Nappen 50:11 So, now you have a couple that are trying. They’re going to do whatever, but they don’t want restraining orders. They don’t want the Government in their life. They’re not interested in that. But what happens? The Government files Red Flags, TERPOs, Temporary Extreme Risk Protection Orders on both of them. Neither of them wanted a restraining order. Neither one wanted it, but it didn’t matter. The Government now files to take away both of their gun rights. To take away their guns and put them on a list of extreme risk. This puts you on a database that could even arguably be accessed by TSA or others that you’re a danger. It has farther reaching collateral consequences than just taking guns and taking away your gun rights. Putting you into the court system now to have to individually fight TERPOs, because we’re from the Government and we’re here to help. That, my friends, is the GOFU. Keep it in mind at all times about being from the Government and there to help. Especially on the 250th Anniversary of the Declaration of Independence. Evan Nappen 51:37 This is Evan Nappen and Teddy Nappen reminding you that gun laws don’t protect honest citizens from criminals. They protect criminals from honest citizens. Even Thomas Jefferson knew that. Speaker 3 51:50 Gun Lawyer is a CounterThink Media production. The music used in this broadcast was managed by Cosmo Music, New York, New York. Reach us by emailing [email protected]. The information and opinions in this broadcast do not constitute legal advice. Consult a licensed attorney in your state. Downloadable PDF TranscriptGun Lawyer S5 E297 Transcript About The HostEvan Nappen, Esq.Known as “America’s Gun Lawyer,” Evan Nappen is above all a tireless defender of justice. Author of eight bestselling books and countless articles on firearms, knives, and weapons history and the law, a certified Firearms Instructor, and avid weapons collector and historian with a vast collection that spans almost five decades — it’s no wonder he’s become the trusted, go-to expert for local, industry and national media outlets. Regularly called on by radio, television and online news media for his commentary and expertise on breaking news Evan has appeared countless shows including Fox News – Judge Jeanine, CNN – Lou Dobbs, Court TV, Real Talk on WOR, It’s Your Call with Lyn Doyle, Tom Gresham’s Gun Talk, and Cam & Company/NRA News. As a creative arts consultant, he also lends his weapons law and historical expertise to an elite, discerning cadre of movie and television producers and directors, and novelists. He also provides expert testimony and consultations for defense attorneys across America. 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  Episode 296-Trump Pushes National Constitutional Carry Also Available OnSearchable Podcast Transcript Gun Lawyer — Episode Transcript Page – 1 – of 12 Gun Lawyer — Episode 296 Transcript SUMMARY KEYWORDS Second Amendment, pistol brace, bump stock, Glock ban, iron pipeline, national constitutional carry, gun rights, anti-gun laws, gun safety, Hollywood depiction, firearm training, gun laws, civil rights, gun ownership, gun violence. SPEAKERS Speaker 3, Evan Nappen, Teddy Nappen Evan Nappen 00:18 I’m Evan Nappen. Teddy Nappen 00:21 And I’m Teddy Nappen. Evan Nappen 00:22 And welcome to Gun Lawyer. So, Teddy, what have you brought to the table today? Teddy Nappen 00:33 Well, I’m always amazed by every single time they always try to say Trump’s not doing enough. Like you hear the horseshoe, right? It’s amazing the idea of just, oh, he hasn’t done enough, or they do the goal post move. Where they move it. They say he hasn’t done anything, or they move in and say he hasn’t done enough. I keep hearing this all the time about people with regards to the Second Amendment. They always try to highlight that stupid thing regarding the, what was it? The pistol brace at the time, because the writing on the wall that they try. Evan Nappen 01:16 Well, remember, keep in mind that with the pistol brace originally, NRA was not real keen on them either. You may remember, you know. So, Trump was trying to also go along with what the organizations themselves were doing, remember, because the brace thing was. But what you eventually saw, and what you’re seeing now, just on that is the elimination of the brace being an SBR, and that whole Merrick Garland insanity of having to register pistol braces. They put the reg forward on their, which should be official shortly, getting rid of that completely. We’re going to, on another shows talk about anybody if you happened to register a braced pistol as an SBR, what you need to do. Because that’s all history, and Trump has ensured that it’s now history, and let’s give credit there for that. Page – 2 – of 12 Teddy Nappen 02:35 And they always highlight the bump stock thing. By the way, the writing was on the wall of why Obama wanted to let that through was because they were going to equate ARs to machine guns, and that led to where. Evan Nappen 02:50 That’s right. So, remember the anti-rights, the oppressionists, they always have a game plan. So, their game plan was, look, if we have the bump stock thing going, then we can claim that semi-automatics are like machine guns. Then we can go after them and get a ban on semi-automatics as machine guns. And what Trump was doing politically in that sense was thwarting their political move. Now, if you say, ‘Oh, well, that isn’t.. how do you know that’s their plan? Or that was.. well, I’ll tell you what. If you want to see that as their plan, you could see it in action right now as they ban Glocks. California just banned Glock pistols, and what is your basis for banning Glocks? Oh, well, they’re easily convertible with Glock switches, you see. So, this is always the gambit of the Second Amendment oppressionists. Now we ban handguns that are perfectly legal, the most popular handgun in America, and we ban it, how? Oh, because you can put an unlawful Glock switch, which turns it into select fire. These switches are in and of themselves, just possession of a switch, is the same as possessing a machine gun. The switches are banned! But they use it as the pretext to expand it, and then ban the handguns themselves. Evan Nappen 04:35 You also saw them attempt this with the so-called iron pipeline. Teddy Nappen 04:40 Operation Fast and Furious. Evan Nappen 04:40 They were laying the groundwork for the iron pipeline. They wanted to say, oh, American guns, semi-autos, are going to Mexico to the narco terrorists, and all. And what did they do? They changed the 4473 to ask, are you Hispanic or not? Like, why are they asking that? And then they had multiple rifle reporting on border states. Why are they doing that? And then, of course, they do Operation Fast and Furious, so they could paint the picture to then push a gun ban based on the iron pipeline down south. But lo and behold, they step on their own toes here. We’ll use that word instead. And Operation Fast and Furious blows up in their face because they’re selling the guns themselves to the narco terrorists, and end up killing a federal agent, no less. So, that plan went all to hell. Evan Nappen 05:35 But you see, this is what they do. They lay the groundwork with these things, and that’s really what was going on there, on that. But with this Administration, we’ve never had an administration this pro-Second Amendment rights that it’s ever been president, ever. They’re now saying to California, get rid of that Glock ban or the Justice Department of the federal government is going after California. In other words, we finally have the federal government not pursuing oppression of the Second Amendment, but of enforcing our rights and preserving and fighting for our rights. They did it, and they’re doing it in all different facets. They’re doing it by administrative reg changes, 34 great changes. They’re doing it by Page – 3 – of 12 the litigation. They’re doing it by getting a focus of civil rights and putting the Second Amendment into that category. Evan Nappen 06:40 And now President Trump, just recently at a rally in Pennsylvania, said he wants to see and is pushing for National Constitutional Carry. Now, keep in mind this is beyond national reciprocity. National Constitutional Carry is the ability to lawfully carry your handgun anywhere in the United States with no permission slip. Ending the requirements, in effect, for permits. Or at least having it so that there’s national reciprocity that respects the majority of states that don’t require any permit. So that with National Constitutional Carry, a person who is a resident of a Constitutional carry state can carry, for example, in New York or New Jersey and all these oppression states with no permit, because it will be national. If you think about what the Second Amendment means, the right to keep and bear arms bearing is carrying, and the Second Amendment means that very thing. And that’s why it’s constitutional. Teddy Nappen 08:17 You also have to remember, Dad, like think back to Shaneen Allen. If this law comes into play, that would have avoided that entire BS that she went through. Her only crime was crossing the Franklin Bridge. Evan Nappen 08:40 Without the piece of paper that New Jersey recognizes. That’s right! Think of how many completely law-abiding citizens are turned into criminals, have their life destroyed, forced into a criminal judicial system for exercising a Constitutional right. They weren’t committing any crimes. They weren’t robbing, stealing, raping. No, no, no, nothing. Just, oh, you have a gun, and we’re not recognizing your right in this jurisdiction. That’s why this has to go. That’s why it’s a civil right, and it’s really great to see President Trump pushing it again. Teddy Nappen 09:21 If they were robbing, stealing, or raping, they would just be let off, no bail, no nothing. Evan Nappen 09:26 Well, if they’re an illegal alien, of course. Teddy Nappen 09:30 Yes, of course. Evan Nappen 09:31 And not only that, they would not even cooperate with ICE to have them deported, but that’s separate. Teddy Nappen 09:38 Yeah. Page – 4 – of 12 Evan Nappen 09:38 We’re talking here about law-abiding Americans with rights that are getting oppressed. What’s really interesting is that President Trump is pushing it now, making it an issue. Not just leaving it in the shadows, but making it a specific issue out there. And at the same time, he’s pushing for the Save Act, so we have integrity in our voting system. He’s pushing like never before to get rid of the filibuster. The filibuster is what is stopping the Republican-controlled Congress from being able to pass the agenda that we voted for. It’s because of the filibuster. As it stands now, you need 60 votes, and that lets the oppressors still have power to stop these laws from going through. And you know, if the Democrats ever gained power again, the first thing they’re going to do is get rid of the filibuster. So, cut it out. I didn’t see the filibuster in our Constitution. It talks about majority for passing legislation in each house. Okay, that’s what it is. So, this filibuster thing is a contrivance, and it needs to go. It is time, because we can get these laws through, and we can get the changes that we need on so many fronts, including the Second Amendment rights. It’s very important, critical. Teddy Nappen 11:30 Yeah, and this also comes from this. It’s right an article from MSN. (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-says-administration-is-working-on-nationwide-right-to-carry-legislation/ar-AA26oxMC) When he was unveiling the new aircraft at Andrews Air Force base, one of the attendees asked about it, and he said, “Yep, we’re working on it. That sends it right there, because that puts it in. Not only you just said not to the national spot, but it also had all the gun rights oppressionists jumping up, screaming, no, no, no. Like going, like just immediately. It’s so funny. Evan Nappen 12:07 It’s (Senator) Mike Lee’s bill. (https://www.congress.gov/bill/119th-congress/senate-bill/4013/text) (Senator) Mike Lee has the bill, and they are working on it. This is a major, major law. It’s probably the single most important pro-Second Amendment rights law that we could pass in modern times. First of all, it will have a wonderful effect on reducing crime. We’re facing these criminals that were let loose into our country through four years of Biden and his policies, plus the blue state policies of the revolving door with no cash bails and all that. So, we need to be able to defend ourselves. But it also will make it so that carry is every individual, who chooses to have a firearm to protect themselves, and this will make it much simpler for individuals to do that very thing. Has a vested interest in preserving and fighting for their Second Amendment rights. It will be the biggest game changer that we could look for. Evan Nappen 13:22 Because as we evolve in our Second Amendments, where the base used to be the strongest base of our gun rights was hunters, it really has shifted. There’s less hunting and less hunting lands, unfortunately, and it shifted to a major uptick, tremendous uptick, in firearms for self-defense and personal protection and individual carry. This will solidify it to the ultimate, the ultimate lifestyle of Constitutional carry for all. That’s what we want to see. We will have a safer society. We’ll have a safer country. Individuals will be able to protect their families, their themselves, their loved ones. It is absolutely the best thing we could do for public safety and the protection of our sacred Constitutional rights. Page – 5 – of 12 Teddy Nappen 14:32 I will say, as well, I love just.. I pulled this from Giffords. (https://giffords.org/press-release/2026/06/giffords-condemns-trumps-push-for-national-right-to-carry-legislation/) Gabby Giffords, of course, who is one of the.. you know, out of.. I would say. Would you say Gifford is probably the smallest out of the gun rights of oppressors? There’s still a factor, but out of comparatively, compared to, like. Evan Nappen 14:49 Well, The Trace and Bloomturd and his organization probably has the most influence, but then you know. Teddy Nappen 15:00 They fund each other, and yeah, they do fund them, too. Evan Nappen 15:04 But, you know, the whole thing that also is true is that the anti-Second Amendment rights groups themselves are not really made of that many members. They don’t have anywhere near the passion and the numbers of which there are gun owners in America and guns in America. They like to gloss over that little fact. They’re basically small but well heeled, well financed. Slick and propagandized, and have an agenda of billionaires that they try to jam down the overwhelming majority of Americans’ throats that actually support the Constitution, and particularly the Second Amendment. So, that’s really, I mean, you don’t see it in terms of numbers. Now, they’ll hold rallies or whatever, and they’ll pay people to turn out. They’ll link in with other groups that are Left wing and such to make their numbers appear big. But there’s a tremendous difference between the pro-Second Amendment rights forces people and the anti-Second Amendment rights forces people. Teddy Nappen 16:32 And it’s also they never changed the argument. Because right here, right out of her own quote, concealed carry reciprocity is a dangerously reckless proposal, and would jeopardize the lives of the children, families, and police. People should not have guns who have no training, who have never passed a background check, and would be able to carry concealed weapons in every community, no questions asked. Evan Nappen 17:01 Yes, and that is absolute garbage. The majority of America already has Constitutional Carry. In the majority of states, 70% of the land mass of the U.S., you can carry now with no permit. So, obviously it’s flawed. I mean, look, murder rates have gone down nationally. But, of course, in the Blue cities, where they have the failure to cooperate with the federal government, where crime is out of control, it’s problematic there. But overall, guess what? The incredible decline in violent crime and murder rates corresponds brilliantly to civilian expansion of carry. That’s what you don’t hear. When they talk about how great we’re doing overall in terms of stopping and fighting violent crime and how those statistics show that we’ve improved, it correlates, it follows expansion of our ability to carry, either by shall-issue permit and/or Constitutional Carry. That’s why a national carry will enshrine it and make it the law of the land. We’ll see even better statistics and less people being victims instead of defenders. Page – 6 – of 12 Teddy Nappen 18:42 You always have to go to the fact, and they always say, if it saves one life. How about 2 million to 2.5 million in defensive uses of firearms that have saved lives per year. Evan Nappen 18:54 Right! Teddy Nappen 18:55 Just going off, you can even ignore the correlation / causation factor, and you can just cite to the fact that 2 million lives are saved from defensive uses of a firearm. If they go for the “save one life”, we’ve got to protect the children, yet it saves lives. Just flat out argument to that. But no, they always go to you’re going to be arming criminals and traffickers and lead to more gun deaths. All right. That’s ridiculous. Evan Nappen 19:24 Here’s the bottom line. It’s real simple. You can sum it up real easy. Guns Save Lives. Do you need to write that down? I mean, Guns Save Lives. And unfortunately, the cohorts of the oppressionists is the media. The mainstream, lame stream media that loves to push the agenda of the billionaire elitists that want our rights destroyed and that’s a fact. Guns Save Lives. And when you can, as an individual, protect yourself and your loved ones. Anyone who’s a gun owner knows that feeling of security and safety when you’re trained and know how to shoot and have your own firearm. You know that you can do it. And that is what enshrines it to the person, what puts it right in their heart. They go, yeah, I get it. I get it. Especially individuals who have actually had to use firearms, or they realize the famous saying of “I’d rather have a gun and not need it than need it and not have it”. And those that have needed one and not had it. Yeah, they paid a price, and those that have had it when they needed, it saved lives. Teddy Nappen 20:57 It makes me think back to, I don’t know if you remember seeing this. Do you know who Jamal Bowman is? Mister pull the Fire Alarm, because I can’t open a door. Evan Nappen 21:05 Yeah, right. That guy. Teddy Nappen 21:07 I remember him having a shouting match. It was like a couple years ago. It was him and Massie. He was arguing about, arguing for, more restrictive guns measures. Calling Republicans cowards, and he was screaming, and say, ‘You want more guns, you’re gonna lead to more death. Like, just screaming, screaming that it would cause more death. Screaming, ‘You’re all cowards. You don’t save children. Like, just screaming about it. (https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/democrat-calls-republicans-cowards-tense-exchange-gun-violence-rcna77342) They do not care about the statistics. They do not care about the facts and the logic behind it. They just see weapon bad. Weapon is used by the oppression. Page – 7 – of 12 Evan Nappen 21:46 Wait. You’re telling me that Democrat issues are emotion-based? I find that hard to believe, Teddy. Teddy Nappen 21:53 I know, right. Whoops, sorry. Evan Nappen 21:55 Yeah, at least. Teddy Nappen 21:56 They banned logic in ’84. Evan Nappen 21:58 I guess they did. They did. Well, Teddy, let me talk about our good friends at WeShoot, our favorite range. It’s where you and I shoot and get our training and got our certificates, so that we can carry. WeShoot is a range in Lakewood, New Jersey, and a great facility. They are running an America 250th Anniversary sale. That’s right. This is a pretty cool sale, actually. They are offering 15% off all of their pre-loved firearms. You know what a pre-loved firearm is, right? Fifteen percent off for any of those, and 25% off their Heritage Collection. These are all these guns. There’s tremendously great guns that they have for sales, the 15% off sale across the board. You’ve got to check out what they have at WeShoot. They have an amazing selection and that’s of course on their pre-loved guns. Their Heritage Collection, man, is 25% off, and that is some sweet guns. Let me tell you. The Heritage Collection has, for example, I’ll just tell you about a few. Fox Sterlingworth shotgun, Fox “A” shotgun. You know, we’re talking these beauties. Fox AEs, and all these Richards. W. Richards SXs, you know, they’re the 10 gauge Richards. Fox CES, Parker Brothers, Trojan, the fevers, the nitros. We’re talking all the LC Smiths, Parkers. The classics of the scattergun world, man. The best of the best, and those are 25% off. Evan Nappen 24:17 So, you want to go to WeShoot and get your training there. It’s a great facility with a great indoor range. Conveniently located right off the Parkway, right in Lakewood, New Jersey. Central Jersey. Our ranges are critical. They are a resource. I mean, what good is it if you can’t shoot? If you don’t have any place to shoot? We’re lucky we have a great place to shoot. It’s called WeShoot. You can check out their website – weshootusa.com. Brilliant website with fantastic photography. They treat their customers so well. Teddy and I love WeShoot, and I know you will, too. Check out weshootusa.com. Evan Nappen 25:03 Let me also shamelessly promote my book, New Jersey Gun Law. It’s the bible of New Jersey gun law. It’s over 500 pages. It’s over 120 topics, all question and answer, making it easy, so that you don’t become the next GOFU. New Jersey’s laws are complicated, and it can be very perilous. As a matter of fact, the case law even says, when dealing with New Jersey gun laws, you act at your own peril. Even the courts recognize that the gun laws are perilous. So, to help defeat the peril and manage it, get a copy of my book, New Jersey Gun Law. Go to EvanNappen.com, EvanNappen.com, and get your copy today. You’ll be glad you did, Teddy. What else have you discovered in your travels? Page – 8 – of 12 Teddy Nappen 26:01 So, every time you turn on a TV show or movie, like out of modern Hollywood, you’ve probably seen some anti-gun messaging. It’s always there, some little. Evan Nappen 26:02 Yeah, some subliminal, some obvious. Nonsense. Teddy Nappen 26:12 An individual who is carrying, who ends up making the situation worse, or a kid finds the gun in the house and then shoots himself. These are others, or whatever, it’s always right, Evan Nappen 26:36 Mishandling. Teddy Nappen 26:37 You always see that. So, apparently this stems from Brady United, you know, Brady’s still a thing, apparently. They decided to meet with. This, is right from the NPR website. (https://www.npr.org/2022/06/13/1104594849/hollywood-pledge-onscreen-guns) Two hundred screenwriters, producers, studio executives, talking about responsibility of depicting firearms in film and television. We are partnering with major partners like Paramount, Walt Disney Studios, CBS Studios. To date, an estimated 150 viewers have watched Project Brady has influenced things like from HBO Euphoria – it’s not even cracking anywhere – from people caring about that show to Netflix, Little House on the Prairie reboot. Again, something no one else also isn’t really watching. Just bear in mind, I love how everyone’s screaming about, like, Paramount is like big in with conservatives and Trump. They’ve made some good shows, but they also produced the most woke Star Trek series known to man, where you had a retarded AI who was also a he/she/it. Like it’s that, so it’s that level. Evan Nappen 26:37 They almost covered all the bases. Teddy Nappen 27:23 I know, right? And then, like, there was a gay. Evan Nappen 27:26 I heard they modeled a lot of it after Tim Walsh, right? Anyway. Teddy Nappen 27:56 Well, good luck with that. But yeah, and so they outlined this. Our show gun safety principles. I think they ripped this off of our range principle, but okay. To help Hollywood model safer behaviors around guns. We’re not just changing the story, we’re saving lives. Page – 9 – of 12 Evan Nappen 28:27 Well, you know, okay. What they’re doing here is they love to call every gun rights oppression law is a “gun safety law”. Gun safety to them is just banning guns, banning gun rights, going after in every way they can us and our rights and our guns. They just put it under a banner of safety. So, anytime I hear that they’re promoting so-called “gun safety”, well, gun safety to them is not what gun safety is necessarily to us. Now, if it was honestly showing better gun safety in the media, I’m not against that. I’m all for safe gun handling, but I tell you what. I have an idea better than what the gun rights oppressionists are pushing, where they’re trying to get the writers to write it into the stories. Evan Nappen 29:39 Here’s something very simple that could be done, but they’ll never do it. Here’s what needs to be done. You know, at the beginning of many movies and shows, there are warnings. Warning” contains sexual or smoking. They even warn about, you know, violence. They warn about all kinds of racial stereotypes. They put all these warnings at the beginning. Here’s a warning I want to see on every show and movie before it’s shown. “The following shows improper handling of firearms.” Put it as a warning. Do you know how many times you would see that warning? On every show. And what it would do? It would show America just how bad the entertainment world is, just how bad these shows are for what they show. Anytime a gun is used illegally or improperly, that show should have the warning. “Firearms here are being shown used illegally and improperly.” However, you want to word the warning. Evan Nappen 31:00 Every time that warning would come up, it would send the message. Look who is showing wrongdoing. It’s the media. So, it would go hand in hand with arguably what The Trace and these guys, Brady and all are trying to do. It would go hand in hand with it. They want to promote safety. We’ll put warnings when the unsafety is being shown. I’d love to see that. Look, I don’t want to restrict anybody’s First Amendment. It’s just a warning about what’s coming up. I’m not looking to have any kind of censorship on it. They can show unsafe gun handling all day long, but just put a warning up front that that’s what’s coming. If you can warn about smoking, warn about offensive language, if you can warn about all this other, why not warn about that? Teddy Nappen 32:02 I remember there was a, I think it was either Bloomberg or Everytown who put out after there was a big shooting, and they got a lot of Hollywood actors who were just naming off mass shootings. Someone did a super cut showing them misusing firearms in movies, just to show the hypocrisy. It’s very hilarious. This is just them also running cover because of the violence depicted in movies, because they have that. Not talking about, they don’t talk about that. They want to talk about the gun. But here’s the three principles, just as a reminder. Model responsible gun ownership, especially secure storage. Show the consequences of reckless gun use. What’s reckless? Oh, you know, defending yourself with a firearm. Have at least one conversation during pre-production on the ways guns will be portrayed on screen. And this is most important of all. Limit scenes with children and guns. That right there is important, because you want to. Page – 10 – of 12 Evan Nappen 33:10 Because they want to make the younger generation not have any familiarity or love of firearms whatsoever. It’s not let’s teach how to shoot safely and properly, and enjoy shooting sports, and mature to be able to have the ability to defend yourself and your family. No, no, shut them out of it. Shut them out of it. Get them out of it. We don’t want to have the young being gun owners in the future, and this is how we stop it. Teddy Nappen 33:47 Yeah, and then they highlight their successes. They bring up. I love this one. They bring up Tulsa King. There’s a scene where a character is teaching his girl how to shoot. He’s just going through like the very first rule of gun safety first. Safety always. It’s especially important. Always assume the gun is loaded. Never point anything you’re not intending to shoot. I like how they take credit for just basic range safety. Like we did that. Evan Nappen 34:19 I like, you know, back when America was America, you had great movies like Shane. I mean, one of the greatest scenes in Shane is with Alan Ladd and the young boy, who’s enthralled with him and his firearm. Like any young boy should be. And remember the mom is like, “Oh, I don’t want my son, I don’t want my son having guns and dealing with guns. And what does he say? Marion, a gun is just a tool.” And there you go. One of the, you know, most awesome, pro-Second Amendment rights statement. Making it clear a gun is just a tool, Marion. And it is. It’s a tool for our safety. It’s a tool for our liberty. It’s a tool for our freedom. It’s a tool for our security. That’s the kind of message we love to see. Teddy Nappen 35:17 For me, I like “The River of No Return”. Evan Nappen 35:22 You would like that. Teddy Nappen 35:23 Yeah. Where the guy has his son, who wants to learn how to shoot. He learns, and he saves his dad through back shooting. After he gets. Evan Nappen 35:32 Hey, there you go, man. He saved his dad. Hey, look, didn’t John Wayne in (The Man Who Shot) Liberty Valance kind of do that anyway? In The Shootest, he didn’t want to shoot anybody in the back, but I kind of thought that happened in Liberty Valance. Maybe was not crystal clear, but he definitely ambushed him to save Jimmy Stewart, right? Teddy Nappen 35:52 Yeah, Jimmy Stewart. Page – 11 – of 12 Evan Nappen 35:53 He saved Jimmy Stewart’s ass with that shot. So, yeah, no, but look, what’s wrong with saving lives, and the good guys winning? I mean, that’s nice, you know. Beating the bad guys, not being a victim. Nothing wrong with that. As long as you’re justified and legal, and there you go. That works. Teddy Nappen 36:14 And then this is something I wanted to highlight, though, for people to remember. They got to all these show writers they had, for instance, like all signed this ridiculous letter. It was JJ Abrams, you know, the guy that ruined Star Trek. You have all these actors, producers, and directors signing this Brady show gun safety letter, this open letter. “Guns are prominently featured in TV and movies in every corner of the globe, but only America has a gun violence epidemic.” Okay, cut to the rest of the world. First, already debunked. “The responsibility lies with lax gun laws supported by those politicians more afraid of losing power than saving lives.” There we go. Another one right there. Lax laws. Thinking they’ll save lives. “We didn’t cause the problem, but we want to help fix it.” As America’s storytellers, our goal is to primarily entertain . . .” That’s not true in Hollywood. “. . . but we also acknowledge that stories have the power to effect change.” Evan Nappen 37:16 They’re a propaganda factory is what they are. Teddy Nappen 37:18 Correct. “Cultural attitude towards smoking, drunk driving, seat belts, and marriage equality have all evolved due in large part to movies’ and TV’s influence.” I’m pretty sure people are still drinking and driving. I’m pretty sure people are smoking, but now they’re vaping. So, that’s a whole.. and now, because that, they have to turn it towards vaping. And seat belts, okay, and marriage equality, okay. Now, the point now where they’ve lost. Evan Nappen 37:49 The whole political agenda through their propaganda efforts through entertainment. Hey, Teddy, I want to tell you about a very important GOFU this week. This week’s GOFU, remember, GOFUs are Gun Owner Fuck Ups. These are actual cases. Real deal things that you need to know. These are expensive lessons that somebody else has paid for that you get to learn for free. This week’s GOFU is really something that you may not have considered before, but you really should. If you ride motorcycles and such, make sure that the holster you use is not a clip-on style holster. You know, the kind. Make sure it’s an actual belt looped, so that your holster doesn’t come off while you’re riding your motorcycle. Because particularly susceptible. Evan Nappen 38:55 Now, granted, this can happen in a car, too. In a car, the firearm is going to end up on your floor of your car. But on a motorcycle, if that holster comes off the belt because it’s a clip on, even with the gun in it, or for that matter, if the gun falls out of the holster, you want to make sure your holster securely holds a firearm. You have to make sure the holster is secured to your belt. In motorcycling, with the vibration, the noise, etc., it’s very easy for an individual not to notice it falling off one’s body. You know you’re riding your bike and all that’s going on with the vibration and the road bumping and all these things Page – 12 – of 12 you’re dealing with, and it’s very easy to have that type of clip on holster come off. And then what happens? The gun and the holster fall off somewhere on your ride, and you don’t even realize it. Evan Nappen 40:12 Once you realize that you’ve lost it, you have 36 hours to report it lost or stolen in New Jersey, and this now jeopardizes, potentially, you being able to maintain your gun licenses. And if somebody else gets a hold of that gun, there can be further issues. So, please make sure that your holster is on your belt in a way that it cannot be removed unless you intentionally take it off through the loops. It’s very important. You don’t want to become a GOFU. Evan Nappen 40:54 This is Evan Nappen and Teddy Nappen reminding you that gun laws don’t protect honest citizens from criminals. They protect criminals from honest citizens. Speaker 3 41:05 Gun Lawyer is a CounterThink Media production. The music used in this broadcast was managed by Cosmo Music, New York, New York. Reach us by emailing [email protected]. The information and opinions in this broadcast do not constitute legal advice. Consult a licensed attorney in your state. Downloadable PDF TranscriptGun Lawyer S5 E296_Transcript About The HostEvan Nappen, Esq.Known as “America’s Gun Lawyer,” Evan Nappen is above all a tireless defender of justice. Author of eight bestselling books and countless articles on firearms, knives, and weapons history and the law, a certified Firearms Instructor, and avid weapons collector and historian with a vast collection that spans almost five decades — it’s no wonder he’s become the trusted, go-to expert for local, industry and national media outlets. Regularly called on by radio, television and online news media for his commentary and expertise on breaking news Evan has appeared countless shows including Fox News – Judge Jeanine, CNN – Lou Dobbs, Court TV, Real Talk on WOR, It’s Your Call with Lyn Doyle, Tom Gresham’s Gun Talk, and Cam & Company/NRA News. As a creative arts consultant, he also lends his weapons law and historical expertise to an elite, discerning cadre of movie and television producers and directors, and novelists. He also provides expert testimony and consultations for defense attorneys across America. 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  Episode 295-Bang and Bong… You just got Both Also Available OnSearchable Podcast Transcript Gun Lawyer — Episode Transcript Page – 1 – of 12 Gun Lawyer Transcript – Episode 295 SUMMARY KEYWORDS Supreme Court ruling, Second Amendment, marijuana prohibition, gun rights, NRA, ACLU, Justice Thomas, Commerce Clause, firearm regulation, self-defense, Bruen framework, gun violence, international gun laws, warning shots, New Jersey gun law. SPEAKERS Teddy Nappen, Evan Nappen, Speaker 2 Evan Nappen 00:17 I’m Evan Nappen. Evan Nappen 00:19 And I’m Teddy Nappen. Evan Nappen 00:21 And welcome to Gun Lawyer. Well, just now we just got word of the Supreme Court handing down the ruling in the Hemani case, and this is really quite a startling win. (https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/25pdf/24-1234_g2bh.pdf) Not necessarily because it was a win, but because it was a unanimous win! What we have is the U.S. Supreme Court in a nine to zero opinion essentially determining the unconstitutionality of marijuana creating a gun prohibitor under federal law. So, for these years you’ve had issues, and we’ve talked about it on the show, where folks that had even a medical marijuana weed card, or they used, or they had any kind of history of prior possession/conviction for misdemeanor marijuana. All that has caused just a lot of folks to not be able to exercise their Second Amendment rights. In the past, we actually coined the term from the show, “Bang or Bong, you can’t have both”. Because of how they, they being the Government, how the Government was interpreting this. To the degree where federal dealers were issued memoranda from ATF telling them that they could not sell to these folks that admitted to using all this regarding marijuana and laid out this as enforceable prohibition. Evan Nappen 02:15 And by the way, this is also the thing that Hunter Biden was prosecuted for. Hunter Biden’s gun case is essentially this issue as well. So, we’re happy to say, and not necessarily for any reason because of Hunter Biden, but because it is a win for the Second Amendment. To see a unanimous decision. Let that sink in, folks. Every judge on the Supreme Court agreeing with an enforcement of the Second Amendment. Just that alone, regardless of the issue, is really great to see. Just that. Here there were interesting bed fellows, as they say. We had the lawsuit challenge, etc., the legal action, joined the NRA and the ACLU on the same side. So, we had both the NRA and the ACLU on the same side arguing for this. To not prohibit individuals from Second Amendment rights. So, this is very significant, and it’s interesting. Page – 2 – of 12 Evan Nappen 03:39 Judge Gorsuch delivered the opinion of the Court. In the facts of this case, Hemani used marijuana a few times a week, and because of that the Government claimed that he’s automatically banned from possessing a firearm under federal law. And because Hemani admitted that he owns a gun, despite the ban, the Government was now seeking to prosecute him. To imprison him for up to 15 years and disarm him for life. This case here posed that question, whether the Government’s prosecution of Hemani is consistent with the Second Amendment. A unanimous decision found that it was not consistent with the Second Amendment. So, Teddy, what do you think about this decision? Teddy Nappen 04:40 Well, for me, as soon as this case came out, I had to look. What did Judge Thomas say? Because he’s the funniest of them all. Evan Nappen 04:49 Well, that’s true. Teddy Nappen 04:50 I had to go right to his opinion. And of course, Justice Thomas, being the greatest justice to have ever lived, and the fact that he is an originalist to perfection. Of course, he said we did not go far enough! Particularly, and I love how he writes this. “I agree with the Court that 922(g)(3) violates the Second Amendment as applied to respondent Ali Hemani, and I join it’s opinion in full. I write separately to call attention to another issue: As a matter of both original meaning and this Court’s precedents . . .” It appears to exceed Congressional enumerated power and regulate interstate commerce. He attacks the commerce clause throughout this. He even highlights the fact that the Government, if the firearms possession by the drug user had previously traveled through interstate commerce, the commerce clause does not authorize Congress to regulate or ban possession of any item that has ever been offered for sale or cross state lines. He cites Alderman. His dissent is on the denial of certiorari, where this conversion of congressional authority under the commerce clause to a general police power is sort retained by the states. Evan Nappen 06:12 You see, this is really important, Teddy. Because what Judge Thomas is doing there is he’s going beyond. He’s looking at the power grab, the overreach of the power of interstate commerce. And ever since the expansion of that Wickard versus Filburn. (https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/317/111/) Ever since the expansion of that, it basically empowered the Government, the federal Government, to do anything it wants, as long as they can make some tenuous argument that it somehow affects interstate commerce. And I’m really glad to see that he’s out there, at least as a voice trying to pull back that insane power grab that occurred back under Franklin Delano Roosevelt, Teddy Nappen 06:58 As you’re reading through his opinion, too, he takes a bat directly to the congressional authority. He bashes the commerce clause directly of how. How is it that something travels, like, how does that fall Page – 3 – of 12 under interstate commerce when it’s not traveling between the states? He is going at it hard, outlining each bit case by case, showing the abuse by it. He even highlights how, I love this line, the gun possession statute issues in Lopez is not a regulation of economic activity, but a law to combat “crime and violence”, even at the local level. Literally calls it out. How is this economic activity when you’re just doing this for regulating crime? Evan Nappen 07:48 Oh yeah. Well, you know, in the decision, this is very interesting, they, they being the Court, outline their ruling, and why. And I think you’ll find it very interesting here, where they talk about that Mr. Hemani. He admitted his use of marijuana, and he knowingly possessed the gun in his home, being an “unlawful user of the substance”. And if you look at that, it seems to fit exactly what the law is prohibiting. And what the actual holding of the Supreme Court held that the Government’s prosecution of Hermani under 922 unlawful user provision is inconsistent with the Second Amendment. And here in the holding it actually says the Second Amendment protects the rights of all Americans, but they had that in quotes to keep and bear firearms for self-defense. So, there’s even an affirmation of the right to self-defense. They are citing Heller with that. Evan Nappen 09:15 Though, like most individual rights, it has its limits to determine when the Government infringes on the Second Amendment. The court begins by asking whether the amendment’s terms cover the conduct in question. If so, the Constitution presumptively protects it. That’s citing Bruen. To overcome the presumption, the Government bears the burden. The Government bears the burden of showing its regulatory efforts are consistent with the nation’s historical tradition of firearm regulation. That is the test, and the burden is on the Government to have to show it. The Government need not point to a historical twin or precise historical precursor that’s from Rahimi, that’s the Rahimi case. Instead, the appropriate analysis involves considering whether the challenged regulation is consistent with the principles that underpin our regulatory tradition. The government may reason by analogy. This is where the battle comes in, in our fight for our Second Amendment rights Evan Nappen 10:35 Now, it says further, the Government accepts this framework, and they proceeded to argue from it. So, this is very exciting in terms of the test being applied. The court looking at the Government’s argument of traditional habitual drunkards losing their rights, and the court, through the opinion, just absolutely distinguishes between this marijuana ban and historical precedent concerning habitual drunkards. Then they also put into play about the decision being narrow. And here’s where, Teddy, what you just said about Justice Thomas, he wants it to be broad. But the decision itself says it’s narrow. It does not address efforts to ban addicts or those presently intoxicated from possessing a firearm. Then it also talks about whether individuals convicted of felonies could be prosecuted. So, they tried to contain it narrowly. But if you step back and just look at the big picture in regards to a nine to zero opinion on a gun rights issue, that to me is probably the most outstanding thing about it. We got the whole Court on board. Page – 4 – of 12 Teddy Nappen 12:21 I will say, if you go to Jackson’s “concurrent opinion”, she doesn’t even talk about the case. She literally spends the entire thing bashing Bruen. I was reading through it, and she literally just spends the entire thing in full. She says I write to emphasize my scrutiny. The court applies to the, we adopted Bruen be his “history and tradition metric”, which more rational way of assessing the Constituent’s regulations. Bruen is unworkable, and it creates such a vulnerability of inconsistent, arbitrary application. Oh, like most gun laws? Evan Nappen 13:01 Yeah. Well, keep in mind the politics here. She’s purposely trying to attack Thomas over Bruen. And yet, what she can’t stand is that she’s ruling in favor of the Second Amendment. But in so doing, it means that Bruen is being empowered here. She’s like the computer on Star Trek. She’s going to explode that it’s now affecting the issue of marijuana, and the ACLU is on this side. Yet, how could she actually use, you know, Thomas’s brilliance here, even though it’s what she believes is the right thing to do, but can’t give credit. So, it’s like, you know, she’s just exploding over it. But she still has to side with the full unanimous majority, and that’s why it is that astounding. Because even a justice like her, who is so blatantly politically and hardly viewed as an educated jurist here by comparison to so many of the others on the Court. This is what you see happen. So, it’s pretty good there. Evan Nappen 15:19 Like applying the Constitution instead of, “It’s a living document”, which it isn’t, and start applying that whole. Teddy Nappen 15:41 Fine, just no, just no, fine, fine. No 19th Amendment, got it. Like it’s so ridiculous. So, they only apply it when they choose to. Evan Nappen 15:53 Hey, but even with all that said. It was still nine to zero, in favor of 2A. So, for that we can be happy to see. And of course, we’re now waiting for Wolford, and that is a “sensitive places” decision, which should also be very interesting on how they rule on “sensitive places”. Teddy Nappen 16:14 Do you remember the commemorative for the Heller? The revolver they did. Evan Nappen 16:19 Yes, I have one. Teddy Nappen 16:21 I want, whoever is the top AR maker, I want them to do a commemorative to the case when we finally get the constitutionality on the assault weapon ban, and finally getting those removed. That would be awesome. Like, just seeing that. Who do you think would be making that? Page – 5 – of 12 Evan Nappen 16:39 Yeah, I’m sure there’ll be all kinds of guns. Well, you know, that’s funny. You know I have that Smith & Wesson when Heller came out. Teddy Nappen 16:47 Yeah. Evan Nappen 16:47 And Smith did a limited run of the 38 J-frame Smith and Wessons, and they are engraved on the side with the Heller decision and scales and all. It’s a pretty cool gun, and they came out with it pretty fast, right after the Heller decision. But I actually got Dick Heller himself, the Heller of the Heller decision, to sign the gun. So, I have a Heller commemorative Smith signed by Heller himself. Teddy Nappen 17:23 Don’t you have one for McDonald too, as well? I could have sworn there was a commemorative for that also. Evan Nappen 17:30 Yeah, yeah. I do, yeah. McDonald. But I also have a very collectible commemorative knife, Teddy. It’s a full kitchen knife, and it’s actually signed by Bobbitt. Remember the Bobbitt case? I have a knife that is signed by John Bobbitt there. And what he wrote on the knife, in addition to his name, he wrote “always sleep on your stomach”. Pretty good. Always sleep on your stomach, you know. Signed by Bobbitt. So, it’s a big kitchen butcher-style knife, a big chef’s knife. It’s definitely a great collectible. Teddy Nappen 18:18 I wanted him to write “Mr. Happy Went Missing” from the Weird Al. Mr. Happy. Evan Nappen 18:33 But he wrote: always sleep on your stomach. Okay, if anyone could give that advice, I guess it’s him. So, yeah, well, getting these things signed. Well, Dick Heller signed the gun, Bobbit signed the knife, and I’m not.. Forget it. I’m not going, not doing it, not doing it. So, hey, by the way, Teddy, where’s our favorite ranger that we shoot at? Come on. Teddy Nappen 19:07 Of course it’s We Shoot, obviously. Evan Nappen 19:09 That’s right, we do. We go there. We have a blast, and so will you. WeShoot is an indoor range right in Lakewood, New Jersey. It’s conveniently right off the Parkway. A beautiful facility, top of the line, modern. A great place. Great training, great pro shop, great people. It’s where we got our certifications for our carry, our CCARE certifications, and other training as well. You need to check out WeShoot, WeShoot. It’s at wewhootusa.com. Their website is really great. They have beautiful photographs, and they pride themselves in their photography. Make sure you also check out the WeShoot girls. They always have fantastic firearms that they are displaying. And there are sales and specials and deals. Page – 6 – of 12 WeShoot is just great. So, check out weshootusa.com. You’ll be glad you did. It’s a superb resource, you know. We/ve got to really use and protect our ranges, especially in New Jersey, where it’s so crowded and it’s tough to find really great places to shoot. But WeShoot is there filling an important need in protecting our rights. What good is having a gun if you can’t shoot it, man? So, check out weshoot usa.com. Evan Nappen 20:52 Also, I want to shamelessly promote my book on New Jersey gun law, which, by the way, is called New Jersey Gun Law. You can find it at EvanNappen.com. It’s over 500 pages, 120 topics, all question and answer. It is the guidebook, the key resource to helping you not become a GOFU. I’ve taken great pride in that, and I think you’ll enjoy it, too. Those that have it know its value. It’s designed as your easy-to-use reference to the insanity that is New Jersey gun law. Go to EvanNappen.com. EvanNappen.com. Get your copy today. Hey, Teddy, I know that you have Press Checks, and I think there’s a pretty fascinating Press Check story that you are going to share with us. What is this story? Tell me. Teddy Nappen 21:58 Well, we got our first from. Again, Press Checks are always free. This is from “Not the Bee.com”, Joel Abbott. (https://notthebee.com/article/babe-wake-up-british-tourists-are-starting-to-appreciate-the-second-amendment-?from_social=twitter) So, everyone’s been seeing the World Cup. I don’t typically follow soccer or anything on that, but you see all the Europeans coming in. I love that video of the Japanese tourist who brought trash bags and picked up their trash after their game. Evan Nappen 22:25 They’re very conscientious. That’s very, very good. Teddy Nappen 22:28 I know, as opposed to the Knicks fans who decided to burn down a bus, but whatever. Evan Nappen 22:34 Hey, listen. Mom would approve of the trash bag thing, you know that. Teddy Nappen 22:38 Oh, I know. Evan Nappen 22:40 Even just at our house, if we did that. Teddy Nappen 22:43 And the recycling. Can’t forget about that. Evan Nappen 22:44 That, too. Page – 7 – of 12 Teddy Nappen 22:46 But the one thing that seems to be catching on, because you have all the vloggers and people coming to want to experience America as they’re going to see. They’ve been going to gun ranges and to rent a gun places. Evan Nappen 23:00 I know. Isn’t that great? Teddy Nappen 23:01 They’re appreciating our Second Amendment. Evan Nappen 23:03 It’s actually spreading the understanding to these disarmed, oppressed peoples, and they’re suddenly seeing the light. Particularly, we see the UK folks. They’re like, wait a minute. How did we lose this right? Teddy Nappen 23:20 Yeah. Evan Nappen 23:20 How did this happen? Teddy Nappen 23:22 And it’s very interesting. It’s almost like those videos you always see where it’s the liberals going to the range, and they actually like, oh my right, yeah, you see all these people like, why were they’re waiting for, like, wait, you guys can just do this? They’re always shocked and awe from everything. But one in particular, this was a British guy, Spencer Towering. He does videos. We’ve been totally pacified in the U.K. through the removal of our arms, our right to bear arms. It’s caused a big problem for us. Now our Government is basically turning it into an absolute, tyrannical feminine leadership that is gradually eroding our rights, and there’s really not much we can do about it. Well, there’s one thing you can do. You know, just kind of look to the founding of our nation, and then get some ideas. Or they could look to the risings in Scotland, and try not to, you know, go with, try to not to put the Bonnie Prince on the throne. It didn’t work. Evan Nappen 24:22 You know, the British even went after an IT consultant. Teddy Nappen 24:28 Correct. Evan Nappen 24:29 Because he posed with a gun in the U.S. and posted it on LinkedIn. Page – 8 – of 12 Teddy Nappen 24:34 Yep, just for posing with it. Evan Nappen 24:36 For posint with a shotgun, an 870 shotgun. Teddy Nappen 24:40 Yep. Thirteen weeks of hell he went through for sharing a photo of something that wasn’t even taken in the U.K. This is why. Evan Nappen 24:54 This was pointed out by “Not the Bee”. So, “Not the Bee is a pretty cool aggregate on news sources. And this is. Teddy Nappen 25:06 Frankly, far funnier than the article. Evan Nappen 25:09 “Not the Bee” is real stuff that you can’t believe is actually true when it is. As opposed to the “Babylon Bee”, which is parody. “Not the Bee” has real stories in it that you think should be fake, but they’re not. It’s like unbelievable. But this one here is not as outrageous, to be honest, because this is what makes it so great about having rights, you know, and why we got to protect them. We see what it’s like for the folks that live in countries that they claim to make believe are free when they’re not. I mean, we’re still fighting for freedom here, but I mean to think that, you know, claim England is free. The U.K. is free? That’s a joke. Teddy Nappen 26:00 I’ll point it to you right now. The two you always hyped. I’ve got to highlight this to people all the time. Literally, arresting a woman for thought crime. Evan Nappen 26:09 Right! Teddy Nappen 26:09 Arresting a young girl for fighting off a pedophile with an ax and a knife. Going after her. Proven, by the way, that was another article that came out where he was in fact trying to go after minors. He had two prior accounts. But let’s just say the Labor Party didn’t want to mention that part. And the final bit, and I saw this one. For every officer, they’ve arrested like 20, done 20 arrests for hate speech online, whichever, whatever they make up. Like it’s they’re done. They are so gone. Evan Nappen 26:34 It’s a shame, the formerly Great Britain. But maybe this kind of experience of them seeing America and what it’s about. Not just from a slanted media, but from actually coming here and experiencing America. I mean, just in terms of brisket sandwiches that they’re going crazy for. American food. Page – 9 – of 12 Teddy Nappen 27:11 Even that, like just going into Europe. Anyone ever gone to Europe? You turn on the news, and imagine your only news station was CNN and MSNBC. That’s it. Yeah, that is all they have. They have the state-run everything and news networks. There is no alternative voice. There’s no alternative tech. They ban Rumble and other outlets. So, they can just control the media, and this is what it leads to. Just authoritarian states. Evan Nappen 27:35 It’s crazy. So, I was looking at this, and you also indicated to me about kind of a crazy international story, Teddy, Teddy Nappen 27:56 Yes. Let’s just say, you know, at times like this, you should buy a holster. This was in Brazil, where a female suspect, when she was stopped by the military police from Goaz, carried out a body search. Evan Nappen 28:17 Now, this is in Brazil, right? Teddy Nappen 28:19 In Brazil Evan Nappen 28:19 In Brazil. And this is an actual story that is from a “legitimate” news source, right? What’s the source? Teddy Nappen 28:28 Yeah, it’s right from the Daily Star. (https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/moment-female-suspect-pulls-loaded-37287603) Evan Nappen 28:31 Yeah, okay, and they even have video. They’re showing reports. So, this is actually legit. This is not a parody or a joke? What happened here with the woman? Teddy Nappen 28:42 The officers located the pair, carried out a stop and search. They showed the armed passengers struggling to remove the firearm from inside her “intimate area”. Physically trying to pull out a loaded pistol from her vagina. Evan Nappen 28:58 And Teddy, this is not small. They show the gun, and it’s the actual firearm, folks. This is the gun, and they even name the gun, a Taurus 92. That is essentially the Beretta M9, you know, but made by Taurus, a Taurus 92. Basically that 15 to 17 shot, depending on the size of your mag, and that you don’t live in New Jersey. A full size Taurus 92. Or also our military carry gun until the SIG replaced it of the Beretta M9. That full size nine. She pulled it out. How did she? Ouch! Page – 10 – of 12 Teddy Nappen 29:51 You know, I don’t even know how that happened. I don’t think Taurus and Victoria Secret should have partnered up for the Victoria concealed. Evan Nappen 30:02 And I think they mentioned that it got stuck. It was stuck. Teddy Nappen 30:05 Yes, it was stuck. Evan Nappen 30:07 It was stuck, and I can imagine why it was stuck, considering the size of a Taurus slash Beretta 92. Teddy Nappen 30:15 Yeah. Evan Nappen 30:15 And it was loaded as well. Teddy Nappen 30:18 What she should have done was got some rem oil, and that would have helped solve it. Evan Nappen 30:22 Well, you know, New Jersey has a requirement for your holster to have to cover the trigger guard and the frame and all that. Technically, she might actually have been in compliance if she was under New Jersey gun law, given the requirements for a holster. I don’t know. Teddy Nappen 30:41 Well, it has to cover the majority of the firearm and the trigger. So. Evan Nappen 30:49 I mean, this was pretty crazy. Teddy Nappen 30:53 Yeah, pretty crazy. Evan Nappen 30:54 But it makes sense in Brazil that there would be a Taurus, since they’re made in Brazil. So, those would be a Brazilian gun. Teddy Nappen 30:56 You know, I’ll give Taurus credit for the gorilla ad campaign that they. Page – 11 – of 12 Evan Nappen 31:06 Well, Taurus makes other guns, like the Judge. You know, the Judge, the Raging Bull. She didn’t do a Raging Bull. At least she didn’t do the Raging Bull. I mean, it’s bad enough with the Taurus 92. Teddy Nappen 31:21 It might have been easier with a Public Defender, to be honest. Evan Nappen 31:24 Right. That’s what she’s gonna need now. After putting a Taurus, being caught with a Taurus 92 there carrying, carrying illegally, no less inappropriately. Now, she’s going to need a public defender to defend her possession of a Taurus. Teddy Nappen 31:43 and a gynecologist. Evan Nappen 31:46 Uhuh, maybe she could call the consulate. I don’t know what’s going to happen there. That’s a crazy, crazy story. But hey. You know, just think if she had a North American Arms mini revolver or something, that you know, but a Taurus 92. Oh man. Teddy Nappen 32:05 I love the mindset of like, okay, this is a good idea, right? Just on the impracticality of like, okay, if I’m ever like, you know, the deal goes bad, and I need to draw this quickly. Evan Nappen 32:25 I don’t know what. Yeah, where? And then if she was hiding it up there, why did she surrender to the police when she was hiding it? If that was hidden, I mean, do they? I don’t think. Teddy Nappen 32:39 I think at that point she was just looking for the excuse, because it was probably just had enough. Evan Nappen 32:44 This just has got to go. Here, just take it, take it. Oh boy. Well, Teddy, that is definitely something to consider in the news on carry, carry news, in terms of method. Now, we have the GOFU, which is a Gun Owner Fuck Up. Now, I think this last, the last story might qualify as a GOFU, but we need to bring it down to a little bit more of a commonality of things that often happen, and that we often see. That are mistakes made. Teddy Nappen 33:27 Too many times. Evan Nappen 33:28 Too many times. One of the things we want to really be clear as to a GOFU here is the warning shot. Warning shots are basically mythology. You should not be firing warning shots, because the firing of a Page – 12 – of 12 gun is essentially what’s construed as the use of deadly force. If you’re using deadly force, you have got to be justified in using deadly force. So, we do not in any way recommend the warning shot. In New Jersey, the discharge of the firearm without lawful purpose is an automatic virtual per se felony, as Murphy’s new law has declared it essentially. So, you have the discharge law. Then you have the issues of undercutting your own arguments for use of force. If it was a threat that was justified in using deadly force, why are you firing your firearm without using it to stop the deadly force? Where you feel you can fire it as simply a warning, is it that imminent danger, or is it not that imminent? There’s just so many downsides and negatives to warning shots. Evan Nappen 34:59 Plus where is the round going? There are cases where you hear, “oh, it was a warning shot, and that’s why I hit them. You’re trying to excuse either the bad aim or whatever under some guys, a warning shot, not a good idea. So, make sure you get your training. Make sure you learn the rules on the use of deadly force. It’s critical that you do that. You can really get jammed up if you don’t understand that dynamic. It’s critical, and it is often not intuitive because of how bad these things are shown on television all the time. Television is not a good education source for learning when you can and can’t use deadly force. If we’re talking about made-for-TV dramas and TV shows and movies, and all that, not a good idea to learn your gun law from there. Evan Nappen 36:04 This is Evan Nappen and Teddy Nappen reminding you that gun laws don’t protect honest citizens from criminals. They protect criminals from honest citizens. Speaker 2 36:14 Gun Lawyer is a CounterThink Media production. The music used in this broadcast was managed by Cosmo Music, New York, New York. Reach us by emailing [email protected]. The information and opinions in this broadcast do not constitute legal advice. Consult a licensed attorney in your state. Downloadable PDF TranscriptGun Lawyer S5 E295_Transcript About The HostEvan Nappen, Esq.Known as “America’s Gun Lawyer,” Evan Nappen is above all a tireless defender of justice. Author of eight bestselling books and countless articles on firearms, knives, and weapons history and the law, a certified Firearms Instructor, and avid weapons collector and historian with a vast collection that spans almost five decades — it’s no wonder he’s become the trusted, go-to expert for local, industry and national media outlets. Regularly called on by radio, television and online news media for his commentary and expertise on breaking news Evan has appeared countless shows including Fox News – Judge Jeanine, CNN – Lou Dobbs, Court TV, Real Talk on WOR, It’s Your Call with Lyn Doyle, Tom Gresham’s Gun Talk, and Cam & Company/NRA News. As a creative arts consultant, he also lends his weapons law and historical expertise to an elite, discerning cadre of movie and television producers and directors, and novelists. He also provides expert testimony and consultations for defense attorneys across America. Email Evan Your Comments and Questions  [email protected] Join Evan’s InnerCircleHere’s your chance to join an elite group of the Savviest gun and knife owners in America.  Membership is totally FREE and Strictly CONFIDENTIAL.  Just enter your email to start receiving insider news, tips, and other valuable membership benefits.   Email (required) *First Name *Select list(s) to subscribe toInnerCircle Membership Yes, I would like to receive emails from Gun Lawyer Podcast. (You can unsubscribe anytime)Constant Contact Use. Please leave this field blank.var ajaxurl = "https://gun.lawyer/wp-admin/admin-ajax.php";

  Episode 294-AG Green-lights Red Flag Also Available OnSearchable Podcast Transcript Gun Lawyer — Episode Transcript Page – 1 – of 14 Gun Lawyer — Episode 294 Transcript SUMMARY KEYWORDS Gun Lawyer, New Jersey, ERPO, gun confiscation, due process, public awareness campaign, gun safety, Second Amendment, red flag law, wellness check, gun rights, gun violence, civil rights, gun storage, gun laws. SPEAKERS Speaker 2, Evan Nappen, Teddy Nappen Evan Nappen 00:17 I’m Evan Nappen. Teddy Nappen 00:19 And I’m Teddy Nappen. Evan Nappen 00:21 And welcome to Gun Lawyer. So, Teddy, what have you discovered in your travels? Teddy Nappen 00:30 Well, first off, you can stop pestering me. I finally watched Project Hail Mary. Evan Nappen 00:36 I love that movie. It was fun. Didn’t you like it, man? Teddy Nappen 00:40 I thought it was. I will give it credit for a movie that’s almost three hours long. You stay. You don’t want to like check your phone or anything. You’re actually very engaged. And I was like. Evan Nappen 00:51 True! Teddy Nappen 00:51 The last 40 minutes, I’m like, okay, everything’s solved, what’s left for plot? And then they actually made it more interesting. Evan Nappen 00:59 Yes! Don’t, don’t spoil it for people. Teddy Nappen 01:01 No, no spoils. Page – 2 – of 14 Evan Nappen 01:02 It’s a good one, and it is a very interesting statement about Government. Teddy Nappen 01:12 I was thinking also Stoicism. Evan Nappen 01:14 Yeah, yeah, yeah. They did a great job. I really enjoyed it. So, anyways. I love talking about movies. However, this is Gun Lawyer, man, and we talk about important New Jersey. Teddy Nappen 01:32 Fine. Evan Nappen 01:33 And beyond the borders of New Jersey. Teddy Nappen 01:38 We’ll open with this: the Attorney General’s a jerk. Evan Nappen 01:42 Wait a minute! Don’t go disparaging our beloved Attorney General. But why are you not happy with what the Attorney General has done? Teddy Nappen 01:51 Well, I love when they’re advertising, effectively legalized swatting, in this latest article. Right from the Attorney General’s Office. ” Attorney General Davenport, Office of Alternative and Community Responses launches gun safety public awareness campaign”. (https://www.njoag.gov/attorney-general-davenport-office-of-alternative-and-community-responses-launch-gun-safety-public-awareness-campaign/) I want to meet the marketing team that comes up with these titles. Evan Nappen 02:14 Which always, if it’s Gun Safety Public Awareness Team, let me guess. They’re using their office to promote citizen self-defense so that citizens are no longer victims, but can defend themselves against criminals, right? Isn’t that what they’re promoting? And helping citizens to understand their use of force and self -defense, and complete dedication to the Second Amendment, right? Am I correct? Teddy Nappen 02:41 I think you forgot this is with New Jersey, but yeah. Evan Nappen 02:45 Oh, what did they do instead? Tell me. Page – 3 – of 14 Teddy Nappen 02:47 Oh, so from the article that they put out, Attorney General Davenport of the office has launched a multi-year public awareness campaign to raise awareness about the life-saving potential of New Jersey’s Extreme Risk Protection Orders (ERPOs). Evan Nappen 03:06 Ah, the Red Flag. Teddy Nappen 03:07 Wow! Evan Nappen 03:07 So, they believe that it is life saving. Try life destroying! If you’re a gun owner and you get hit with one of these ERPOs, as we talked about on a prior show, simply talking to Chat GBT led to this. Where not only were the guns seized, not only is your house searched, but you’re taken away for a “wellness check”. And with his inability to give a urine sample, they shoved a catheter up his penis. All over the wonderful ERPO situation. Isn’t that great? How that all works out. So, there’s a lot of downside, unless you don’t consider forced catheterization up your penis, a downside. I don’t know. Today you don’t know. But these are the kind of things that can come from ERPOs and wellness checks. It’s just astounding. Astounding. Teddy Nappen 04:19 What is astounding is I love how they twist it. Just reading the article, you can feel it. I always go back to that line from “Untouchables” – “Let’s do some good.” They actually think this is going to solve problems. Or right here from the Attorney General. ERPOs are a proven tool for preventing tragedies. How do I know? I pulled it out. They didn’t actually say that. We are committed to using all the tools at our disposal. Evan Nappen 04:52 This is what they put out. But the reality of it is, it’s a tool for disenfranchisement of Second Amendment rights, and it’s a tool of confiscation of guns. It is a tool of gun rights suppression. It is designed for that purpose. There is no due process up front. These are granted ex parte. The person who is served with the ERPO has no clue that it’s coming their way, has no opportunity, before the damage is done to talk or speak or make their case to the judge. This is just gun confiscation in its rawest form with benefits. And the benefits are taking you away for a so-called “wellness check”, while you’re at it, to search and seize giving them the opportunity to review your guns, to take your guns, to search your house, to invade your Fourth Amendment rights as well. All done under this guise. Evan Nappen 05:40 This is something we in the firm here deal with these all the time, and the public awareness campaign is designed to get more people to jump on this. No matter how weak the claim is. No matter whether it’s for reasons that are unproven. It doesn’t matter! They want these ERPOs, which, when they initially issued, are called TERPOs, Temporary Extremist Protection Orders. Only after the issuance of the TERPO do you finally get a hearing where you get to try to fight to challenge it from becoming a final, Page – 4 – of 14 what we call a FERPO. And if it takes place in Burlington or Bergen County, then you, of course, are getting a BURPO. I’m just kidding about that. They don’t call them BURPOs, but it is a pretty bad, rotten, terrible law. It is the most extreme ERPO law in the country, and it is just rights violation from the get-go. Teddy Nappen 07:32 Well, also, if you’re going through the article, they’re talking about the public awareness campaign they’re going to be doing. They say the ERPO awareness is leading up to the National Gun Violence Awareness Month in June. I thought June was also Pride Month, but you know they kind of go hand in hand with the recent mass shootings. It’s one of those. Evan Nappen 07:58 It’s like National Brotherhood Month. Be glad we don’t celebrate it the rest of the year. Teddy Nappen 08:04 I know. You know what? Evan Nappen 08:05 That’s the old Tom Lehrer joke. Teddy Nappen 08:07 You know what? I’m very aware of the gun violence. That’s why people want to be armed to defend themselves, but continue. Then they go on about using like billboards, bus shelters, radio platforms. Oh, by the way, everything will be in Spanish, too. They were very bold in that, and they made it very clear it’ll be in English and Spanish. So, okay. Evan Nappen 08:30 Well, the propaganda that gets generated out of New Jersey is intense, and it is going to create more and more confiscations and misery for law-abiding gun owners and their gun rights. That’s the reality of what is going on. They have these very cute images on this article. I see where they are going to promote this operation, and it’s like they’re meme articles. Because of an ERPO, they’re still here. They show two people, then they have another one. Because of an ERPO, he’ll graduate in June. Really? Then there’s another one. Learn the facts about ERPO. Stop gun deaths. Need to talk. . . blah blah blah. Evan Nappen 09:27 Okay, you know what? We could do our own memes here. You know, we could have, because of an ERPO, this person, this law-abiding gun owner, just had their life ruined, just had their home invaded, just had their family heirloom guns seized, just had to go through an expensive court process just to get back to square one. Because of an ERPO, the person was taken in for a completely unnecessary wellness check, and had medical procedures done to them against their will. Because of an ERPO, they just have a big dick pic with a catheter in it, and say, because of an ERPO, I was forced to endure this. How about that for a nice image? You know, this is what reality is when you’re in the practice. You see these laws and what they actually do to people, and what doesn’t get told is what I’m telling you Page – 5 – of 14 now. The actual effect of it. Not this fluff and propaganda and claims being made that are not how we have experienced ERPOs in the practice of law. There’s an extreme risk protection website, Teddy, by the way. (https://www.njoag.gov/erpo/) Teddy Nappen 10:53 Yeah, they have the link. Evan Nappen 10:53 It talks about ERPOs, and it has a Q and A in it. Let’s take a look at the questions, the Attorney General’s answers, and what I think are the real answers. “Is ERPO the same as a ‘Red Flag’ law?” It’s very similar to what a lot of people know as Red Flag law that exists in other states, even among states that use the name ERPO. There are some technical legal differences. Be sure any information you get about ERPOs is specific to New Jersey. Yes, the similarity ends with New Jersey not having any due process upfront. It’s not just a Red Flag law. It’s a bright Red, no due process upfront law. Other states that may have Red Flag laws do it where you get due process up front before the order is even issued. Not in New Jersey. So, yeah, it’s different. It’s different in an extremely gun rights suppression manner. “Why are ERPOs needed?” Well, an ERPO is an immediate step that can be taken to stop a violent situation before it starts, by temporarily removing firearms from a person who’s at risk of harming themselves or others. Evan Nappen 12:10 Yeah, it’s also an immediate step that can be taken to SWAT somebody and an immediate step that can be taken when information is misconstrued. It’s also an immediate step that can be taken without even truly determining whether there is an actual risk of harm to oneself or another, because the one person they’re concerned about never gets an opportunity up front to actually explain whether there is or isn’t such a risk. “Why do people file for ERPOs?” Because they’ve seen warning signs that someone close to them is at high risk of using a firearm to harm themselves or others. Filing a petition for an ERPO provides safety for everyone involved and gives the person in crisis an opportunity to seek help. Really? Well, so-called warning signs, again not evaluated up front, high risk, again not evaluated up front with any input from the person who becomes the victim of this ERPO. Filing a petition for ERPO provides safety for everyone. No, it actually doesn’t provide safety for everyone. In fact, it endangers law-abiding gun owners. There are cases on record, Teddy, about individuals being swatted over false ERPOs, and they end up getting killed by police because they don’t even know what’s going on in this raid. They had no clue, right, Teddy? Teddy Nappen 13:42 It’s one of those things that’s very disgusting, just the very insidious nature of this. It is legalized swatting, and there’s no way about it. Like, you can just make something up, say someone said something or did something, and they’ll hand them out like candy. Then you get your life destroyed, just going through the process. And I love, I love the article. Their whole thing in it, where they’re saying we need to dispel the myths. The whole, yeah, dispel the myths. Page – 6 – of 14 Evan Nappen 14:16 To create an entire myth about what it is. “What’s a temporary ERPO?” A judge can issue a temporary ERPO if they believe the at-risk person is an imminent threat to themselves or others. Isn’t it amazing that a judge can do this, believing the at-risk person is an immediate threat to themselves or others with never speaking to the so-called at risk person. Never talking to them in advance. And a TERPO is in effect until the hearing for a final, which is typically scheduled within 10 days. And let me tell you, yeah, there’s a railroading, after your life has been turned upside down, of the hearing on the final having to take place in 10 days. After all the damage has been done, after your house has been raided, after you’ve been forced into a wellness check, after you’ve had your property seized. And do you think it’s cared for real well when it’s seized? After you’ve had this entire ordeal, then within 10 days of it, you’re supposed to have a hearing. Are you ready for that hearing? You don’t even know what hit you. How are you going to be prepared and do that? It’s railroading you into a FERPO, instead of giving due process up front on the TERPO. Teddy Nappen 15:37 The article tries to paint it like the court judges may issue them after carefully reviewing the individual circumstances, and prompted by the petition filed by a relative, household member, or law enforcement officer. The ERPO is issued only after several factors are considered. Whether they have been arrested, charged, convicted, disorderly persons, domestically. Evan Nappen 16:01 One of those factors, Teddy, as we’ve reviewed. One of the factors is has recently acquired a firearm. That’s actually a factor for an ERPO. That you’ve gotten a gun, that means that you got a pistol purchase permit and got a gun, or went to the gun dealer and bought a gun. That’s now an ERPO factor, as a fact to take your gun, is that you just got a gun. It’s literally a factor in the law. Teddy Nappen 16:27 Well, the article ignores that factor. Gee, I wonder why? Evan Nappen 16:31 They don’t list all the factors, because they’re so outrageously vague and unbelievable. And again, done ex parte. “What is a final ERPO?” Before a final ERPO is issued, this is all from their Q and A, a person at risk will have a chance to present evidence and testimony to the judge. If the judge believes they’re immediate threat of ERPO, so what does it say? Before the final. That’s the only time you’re going to get your chance is after the TERPO, the temporary order has issued. “How long does a final ERPO last?” It stays in effect until the person who filed the petition or the person at risk asks the judge to end it. If the at-risk person is seeking to end the order, they must prove to the judge they’re no longer a danger to themselves or others. So, the burden of proof switches to the victim of the ERPO. The person whose rights have just been taken away from them and had their life turned upside down. The burden is shifted for them to have to prove, in effect, their innocence. Prove they’re no longer a danger. Go ahead and prove the negative. Good luck with that. Page – 7 – of 14 Evan Nappen 17:47 “What information goes into the petition?” You’ll need to provide specific information about dangerous behavior or threats you’ve witnessed. If the person owns any firearms, provide all information you may know about firearms they own or have access to. So, now you have the ratting out, the giving of the information, the revealing of any firearms, so that they may be confiscated. Backdoor gun confiscation. Let’s have an entire propaganda campaign designed to do this. Even in their Q and A, all the gun information goes. “Does it cost money to file?” No, there’s no filing fee. There’s actually something you can do in Nwe Jersey that they won’t charge you for, and that’s if you aid and abet New Jersey in the seizure of guns in the disenfranchisement of an individual’s gun rights. They won’t charge you for that. Isn’t that nice of them? Evan Nappen 18:47 “Is the person arrested or taken into custody?” No, but they will eventually be required to appear in court. Ahh, let’s talk about that. Person arrested or taken into custody? Well, when they do the combo with the wellness check, you’re taken in. And they say, if you don’t voluntarily go, we’ll make you go. Oh, we just searched your home for guns, and we found that one of your magazines holds 11 rounds instead of 10. You’re getting arrested. Or any other condition that they want to turn into criminality, you’re going to be arrested and taken into custody. And if there’s any type of other allegations made, you’ll face those charges. Evan Nappen 19:37 Remember, this isn’t just done in a vacuum. So, it’s extremely misleading to say a person isn’t arrested or taken into custody when very often that’s exactly what happens. We’ve seen it because of the collateral damage that occurs from the TERPO. “Does an ERPO go on a criminal record?” No, it’s a civil matter, not a punitive punishment. You see, they don’t consider taking your guns and taking your gun rights punitive or punishment. No, this is just civil. Its purpose is to give the person in danger of harming themselves or others, an opportunity to address the crisis. You see, this is being done for your own protection. We’re doing this just for you, gun owners. We’re doing it to help you, because we love you so much. It’s not punitive at all. Evan Nappen 20:34 Except you go into a database that declares you to be an extreme risk. Do you think being in that database is going to help you get a job? Do you think being in the extreme risk database that ERPOs put you in is going to be helpful to you? Do you think that’s going to help you travel, let’s say on an airplane? Do you think it’s going to help you anytime a background check is done on you? So, does it have an actual criminal record? No, because there’s no criminal conviction. So, it would not be a criminal record. But notice it doesn’t say, do you get a record? Because the answer to that misleading way it’s presented is yes. You’re damn right. You will have a record. You will have a record of having an ERPO and being put in a database and on a list of being an extreme risk. But they don’t bother mentioning that in their Q and A. Teddy Nappen 21:39 Oh, this is what happens. Page – 8 – of 14 Evan Nappen 21:41 Go ahead, Teddy. What? Teddy Nappen 21:42 Well, what I was going to say is one thing that does point, like jump at the article with me. All this can be made possible from a competitive grant award from the “Byrne State Crisis Intervention Program” (SCIP) Grant which is administrated through the U.S. Department of Justice’s Bureau of Justice Assistance. (https://www.njoag.gov/attorney-general-davenport-office-of-alternative-and-community-responses-launch-gun-safety-public-awareness-campaign/ – last paragraph) So, the insidious nature of SCIP. Oh, you know what happens whenever you get thrown in, because you think, oh, he may have said he said something like, oh, he’s had some bad thoughts. We need to get him into the crisis intervention unit. He needs to be evaluated. So, the doctors who evaluate you, who think you’re crazy or think you’re extreme, throw you into the nut house as well. That same group is pushing for Red Flag. Amazing! Evan Nappen 22:27 They are, because it goes together with it. And then it says, “What happens to firearms when an ERPO is approved?” Firearms, ammunition, and license to purchase, own, and carry must be surrendered to law enforcement. What also happens is you get put on the ERPO list. And if you fail to have guns turned in, if you fail to file that order, you can be criminally charged for contempt. Then you become a prohibited person after that to ever possess firearms and ammunition, very similar to being a convicted felon. But notice none of that is explained either. Then it says, “When are firearms returned?” When a judge terminates the order. Well, let me just tell you right now, that’s not in the law. We have cases on this right now. You can go in to court, and you can win a TERPO. But the TERPO was defeated after your guns were seized and you went through all that. There’s nothing in the statute that orders the guns themselves returned. So, if the Attorney General is now saying that firearms are returned when the judge terminates the order, great! Because we have cases right now where this very answer and question I want to explain why it hasn’t happened to our clients. Because it’s not in the law! And fighting to get it back afterwards, after you win the TERPO, where a FERPO is not granted, it’s exactly what a client we had on a couple shows ago. He talked about that very thing, that very problem. They asked, How is ERPO different? Go ahead, Teddy, what? Teddy Nappen 24:20 Well, I was going to say is the thing that if you kind of go through all this, looking at like the article, what they’re talking about, they are just doing all their best to muddy the waters. Trying to like no, no, no, no, it’s perfectly fine. We’re just going to take the firearms away, and then it won’t be a problem. Then if everything’s calm and the State has deemed you not an extreme risk. What do we mean by that? Well, we’ll determine that from a political judge. Evan Nappen 24:54 Ask any gun owner that’s gone through this, and they’ll tell you it’s a nightmare. This is designed to create more nightmares for New Jersey gun owners. Here, “Do ERPOs stop violence?” Evidence suggests ERPOs are an effective violence prevention tool, particularly in cases of suicide or mass shootings. Suggests it. They don’t prove it. Instead we have tremendous violation of due process rights Page – 9 – of 14 in this “suggestion” of what people go through. No actual hard evidence that it even accomplishes what it is intended to do. And of course, potential suicide or mass shootings. Well, of course, if someone’s hell bent to kill themselves, last I heard, a gun wasn’t the only way to do it. If the person is determined to engage in criminal acts, a piece of paper will not stop that person. So, who is it really affecting? The law-abiding citizens. They’re the ones who pay the price. Evan Nappen 26:04 And then last question here, “What happens if the petition for an ERPO gets denied?” Now, notice this is really interesting. The last question is, what happens if ERPO gets denied? It says, if the municipal court denies a petition for a TERPO, the person who filed it can request an immediate hearing in Superior Court. If the Superior Court judge is the one who denied the TERPO or denies the final, the person who filed can appeal to the Appel Division within 45 days of the denial. Notice what they don’t say. What happens if a petition is granted? Do they tell those people that they have a right to appeal? Do they mention the appellate rights of the victim of the ERPO? No, they don’t. They only tell the person who filed the ERPO of their appellate rights. Evan Nappen 26:58 Well, let me tell you. If you are hit with these, you have appellate rights. You have the right to challenge it and appeal it. They don’t mention that on their website. It’s supposed to be so informative. To cut through the so-called misunderstandings and misinformation out there about ERPOs, but they don’t even tell you about the appellate rights for those that suffer under this non-due process red flag law. New Jersey is probably the most extreme example of ERPO in the country. If not the most extreme, then tied for it. If somebody else is out there that I’m not aware of, that has copied New Jersey’s model. Teddy Nappen 27:58 I’m just waiting for them to up the ante, where they’re going to combine it with the gun owner gulag, where we’re not only going to arrest you, we’re not just going to ruin your life and take your firearms, we’re going to hold you until trial, and the hearing also takes six months. I’m just, it comes back to the old article that you first wrote, just death penalty to gun owners. They’re at that stage. The left hates us that much, that that’s where they would see the justice, like when it comes to the justice. Evan Nappen 28:24 They’re never satisfied, and it’s always take, take, take. Then the amount that they want to take, they call a compromise. And then they come back for more “compromise” where they take more. Then they say, well, that’s a great compromise, now we want more. It’s never giving. When do you see rights expanded and respected? When do you see rights restoration to New Jersey gun owners in the broader Second Amendment sense? Only when they’re forced to do it kicking and screaming, such as with carry permits, because of the Bruen decision. They knew they had to issue them, so they created the Carry Killer Law. So, yeah, we’ll issue permits, and we’ll try to make it as impossible as we can for you to actually use the permit by creating 25 “sensitive places” in an absolutely bizarre and confusing matrix. Create all these other requirements upon anybody who chooses to have a carry permit. So, it’s always take rights, take rights, take rights. And even when they’re forced by case law to have to restore freedom, they try to find some other gambit to take freedom yet again. This is the pattern of a gun rights suppression Government. That’s what we’re dealing with here, and that’s what we see. Page – 10 – of 14 Teddy Nappen 30:05 I’m trying to remember. It was a comic artist, like, where he was a free speech advocate, Frank Miller, and there’s a famous comic image that he painted where it was speaking out against the censorship going on in the comic book industry. It’s a picture of a woman, and there are band aids covering her eyes, covering her ears, and then one about to go on her mouth. The hands with the hand blob going, this last one’s for your safety. It just, it’s that insanity twist of believing that this will actually make the community safe. Actually thinking that this will solve the problem when all it does is exacerbate it and good luck to every actual career criminal. If that’s quote unquote red flag, we’re Evan Nappen 30:57 And that’s if we are giving them the benefit of the doubt. That they’re actually doing it because they really want safety and are simply misguided or wrong. But I don’t believe that after practicing gun law for over 40 years in the state of New Jersey. I believe it’s an agenda. It’s an agenda of gun rights oppression, and its foundation is simply that of being evil and wanting to go after rights. I don’t give them the benefit of the doubt as to their intention. Their intentions are to destroy our rights. If they could repeal the Second Amendment, they would do it. Look at how draconian every gun law is in New Jersey. Look at how they don’t grandfather magazines. Look at how extreme the penalties are. Look at how they created the gun owner gulag. I mean all this that they do. I just don’t believe it’s for some noble cause. It’s more about their hatred of us, and that really is what fires them up. That’s what the Left is all about, hatred, and they hate us. And this is how their hate is translated into these so-called do-gooder laws. It just is a better explanation from my experience in seeing what the gun laws do to good people, Teddy. Teddy Nappen 32:27 Yeah. Evan Nappen 32:29 But let me tell you, it doesn’t mean that we can’t have guns, that we can’t enjoy our guns. We can still keep fighting, and we don’t want to give up. We’re making progress, even though New Jersey is the toughest environment. And this is where it’s very important that you have a range to go to, and the range where Teddy and I shoot is WeShoot. WeShoot is in Lakewood. They’re a great indoor range. They have great training and a great pro shop. You can get your certification you need, your CCARE for your carry. It’s really just a great place. WeShoot has some pretty cool stuff they’re offering in June. Here they have a Smith & Wesson Performance Center Bodyguard 2.0 Carry Comp with blue titanium finish. It is a stunning evolution of the Bodyguard platform, a very popular platform. It features all these performance center enhancements with an integrated compensator and that really cool blue titanium finish. So, check it out. I think you really dig that bodyguard. They also have a Sig Sauer P211 Comp GTO. Now, this is Sigs latest high performance masterpiece. This gun blends race gun speed with premium craftsmanship, and it just takes it to another level. They also have Henry Big Boy Steel X. Now, the Henry Big Boy is a modern lever action. It’s a powerhouse with a threaded barrel, and that’s okay. On a lever action, you can have a threaded barrel on your lever action, side loading gate, and rugged steel construction, proving that tradition and innovation can ride side by side, and so check out those. Page – 11 – of 14 Evan Nappen 34:29 By the way, Molly Friedman is joins “The Many Faces of 2A”, and she’s reminding us that the Second Amendment belongs to every American from all walks of life. WeShoot is running some great June promotions beyond those really cool guns. There’s 25% off all heritage firearms, $200 off a family membership, 10% off all new firearms, 15% off all used firearms, and 15% off private lessons. So, this is great. Get down to WeShoot. WeShoot is in Lakewood. Go to weshootusa.com, weshootusa.com, weshootusa.com. Check out their website, beautiful photography. Also, pay a visit there in Lakewood, you’ll be glad you did. Evan Nappen 35:27 Let me also shamelessly promote my book, which is New Jersey Gun Law. It’s the bible of New Jersey gun law. It’s over 500 pages, 120 topics, and explains what you need to know about New Jersey gun law. It’s used by well, everybody, that wants to know about New Jersey gun law. Go to EvanNappen.com and get your copy today, so you can hopefully not become a GOFU, because New Jersey loves to make GOFUs. Teddy, what else do you have that you may have discovered in your travels? Teddy Nappen 36:05 Well, as you know, Press Checks are always free. One of the things that is, again, we always want to do our opposition research to see what they’re currently the gun rights oppressionists are pushing or crying about. If we go to our good friends at TheTrace.org, they put out an article. “Trump’s Justice Department Is Suing Cities and States to Dismantle Gun Laws. (https://www.thetrace.org/2026/06/trump-doj-civil-rights-2a-local-gun-laws/) So, again, this is where we always have to make. Evan Nappen 36:41 Make sure our listeners know that The Trace is Bloomberg’s mouthpiece, the anti-gun Bloomberg mouthpiece. So, they’re oppo research for sure. So, what do they say? Teddy Nappen 36:55 Yeah. So, they’re whining about the fact that they no longer have the strong arm of the United States government to go after our rights. Instead, oh my god, the Civil Rights Division is fighting for the Second Amendment. Evan Nappen 37:11 Wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute. You’re telling me that the Civil Rights Division of the US government is actually fighting for the Constitution? Teddy Nappen 37:20 I know. Amazing. Evan Nappen 37:21 When did that happen? Page – 12 – of 14 Teddy Nappen 37:24 Well, apparently, and this was a big shocker, even to The Trace, where they even talk about the article. I love how there’s this. This department was used for fighting civil rights discrimination for black voting and school segregations. It has never been a focus on gun rights, said former attorney of the division, who focused on red lines, which can’t wait to hear all that wonderful things that went on with redlining. Evan Nappen 37:54 Well, so what? I mean, the Second Amendment is also a constitutional right and a civil right, and they absolutely should be protecting all civil rights. They particularly should not be going against any civil right. So, under Biden and prior administrations, they weaponized these agencies to actually go against Second Amendment rights. And now the agencies are actually doing their job and enforcing Second Amendment rights, and The Trace apparently can’t stand it. Plus, they’ve lost so much money that they used to get from the taxpayer. I mean, this is the effects of an election having consequences, and it’s President Trump and his administration that are making these great changes. You see it taking place here, and they’re upset about it. Teddy Nappen 38:49 And this is for, like, any every time I hear the black pillars go, like, he’s not doing enough for the Second Amendment, are you kidding me? Having the Civil Rights Division fighting all of these blue on-on strongholds, fighting for our rights, taking down. This is how we lost our rights through salami tactics. This is how it piece by piece, sure enough. And I love this timeline, mind you, of the Spamberg together talk. Actually, mentioned this in the trace arc about Spanberg signing the assault weapon ban. The Assistant Attorney General Dylan posts on X, see you in court. Imagine having an Assistant Attorney General in your Government saying we’re going to fight to defend your rights. When was that ever in any administration? Evan Nappen 39:41 Take on the state that’s stomping on Second Amendment rights. But, Teddy, you mentioned the black pillars. Just so our listeners know, what does that term mean? The black pillars. It’s not about race at all. What does that term mean? Teddy Nappen 39:56 They’re the horseshoe right. They’re the ones arguing that Donald Trump hasn’t done enough. He hasn’t met any of his promises. And look, no one is perfect. No one can. He is not a king. He can’t just snap his fingers and say, all right, we’re going to send in all the National Guard and point the guns at all the governors and force them to sign bills recognizing the Second Amendment. Like that’s not how that works. It’s about fighting in the system. Going after these policies state by state through the courts, because believe me, they’ve had all their politically appointed judges. I mean, they just did an Executive Order. He did an Executive Order stopping the massive funding to the H1b allowing them to get houses. A judge stopped that through a judge blocking, blocking. Page – 13 – of 14 Evan Nappen 40:49 The activist judges are always causing him problems, and he has to go to higher levels to overturn. We see it every time. They are the appointees, normally from the prior administrations, and this is where Trump’s breaking the mold of the old government ways. And these judges can’t believe that somebody would actually have the balls to do that, and yet he does. Hey Teddy, I want to mention about this week’s GOFU. It’s very important. As you know, GOFUs are Gun Owner Fuck Ups, and we want to make sure that our listeners learn these expensive lessons for free that others have learned. I’m going to have you tell us what you think is a good GOFU for this week for us to discuss. Teddy Nappen 41:48 So, this is something that I’ve been seeing with all the primaries coming up. I always like to imagine all the Democrat candidates just get handed the talking points, like it’s a sheet, like, okay. What gun control thing are we pushing for? For some reason, they’ve all dragged out the “safe storage” as the next big dog whistle of an issue that they’re trying to make relevant. Safe storage, we need to push for it. It was Tallarico, you know, the vegan. Whatever. This guy is are moron, but he pushes for “safe storage” laws requiring safe storage of firearms to keep everyone safe. Evan Nappen 42:30 Now, under Heller, you’re not required to lock up your safety. Heller addressed that in the original decision, but New Jersey does have a law that says you cannot allow a minor to access a loaded firearm. So, when it comes to minors accessing your guns, New Jersey also makes transfer laws, so that you can’t transfer temporarily a firearm, even your spouse or family member, unless you’re at the range or while hunting. There are issues with transfers, and there are issues that have to do with storage. But what they’re looking to do here is create what is mandatory storage requirements, so that, you know, while someone’s breaking into your home, you just got to ask the hot home invader, you know, that’s doing a hot robbery. Just give me a second, so I can get my gun out of the safe, okay? I’ll be right with you while they’re going to rape and kill your family. So, this is a problem. Evan Nappen 43:42 But the GOFU component, particularly in New Jersey, is making sure that you don’t have unauthorized parties access your firearm. You never let a minor access a loaded firearm unless it’s where you’re within an exemption. Where they’re under your direct supervision, but you know, just leaving it at home unlocked, where a minor can access it, you’ve got criminal potential problems there. And then on storage of your firearm, under the Carry Killer law, you’ve got to make sure that if you’re going to use that exemption, that your gun is unloaded and locked. You know, secured in that manner. Otherwise, you can get charged for improper storage of your firearm in violation of the Carry Killer law and sensitive places. Evan Nappen 44:43 These are the areas where storage in New Jersey takes on a legal component, where you can end up with a GOFU. But what you’re talking about is also very important, because it’s another foot in the door by the antis to try to abuse the storage laws to disenfranchise and take away gun rights. New Jersey has done that to a certain degree here in the Carry Killer law, and some of the other laws that they put forward about having to secure firearms. It’s designed to create disenfranchisement of Second Page – 14 – of 14 Amendment rights, arrests, and even at minimum taking away gun licenses over the use of these rules that they again put forward in the name of public safety and do it even contrary at times to the decision in Heller. Evan Nappen 45:48 Hey, this is Evan Nappen and Teddy Nappen, reminding you that gun laws don’t protect honest citizens from criminals. They protect criminals from honest citizens. Speaker 2 45:59 Gun Lawyer is a CounterThink Media production. The music used in this broadcast was managed by Cosmo Music, New York, New York. Reach us by emailing [email protected]. The information and opinions in this broadcast do not constitute legal advice. Consult a licensed attorney in your state. Downloadable PDF TranscriptGun Lawyer S5 E294_Transcript About The HostEvan Nappen, Esq.Known as “America’s Gun Lawyer,” Evan Nappen is above all a tireless defender of justice. Author of eight bestselling books and countless articles on firearms, knives, and weapons history and the law, a certified Firearms Instructor, and avid weapons collector and historian with a vast collection that spans almost five decades — it’s no wonder he’s become the trusted, go-to expert for local, industry and national media outlets. Regularly called on by radio, television and online news media for his commentary and expertise on breaking news Evan has appeared countless shows including Fox News – Judge Jeanine, CNN – Lou Dobbs, Court TV, Real Talk on WOR, It’s Your Call with Lyn Doyle, Tom Gresham’s Gun Talk, and Cam & Company/NRA News. As a creative arts consultant, he also lends his weapons law and historical expertise to an elite, discerning cadre of movie and television producers and directors, and novelists. He also provides expert testimony and consultations for defense attorneys across America. Email Evan Your Comments and Questions  [email protected] Join Evan’s InnerCircleHere’s your chance to join an elite group of the Savviest gun and knife owners in America.  Membership is totally FREE and Strictly CONFIDENTIAL.  Just enter your email to start receiving insider news, tips, and other valuable membership benefits.   Email (required) *First Name *Select list(s) to subscribe toInnerCircle Membership Yes, I would like to receive emails from Gun Lawyer Podcast. (You can unsubscribe anytime)Constant Contact Use. Please leave this field blank.var ajaxurl = "https://gun.lawyer/wp-admin/admin-ajax.php";

  Episode 293-Guest Firearms Attorney Greg Miller Also Available OnSearchable Podcast Transcript Gun Lawyer — Episode Transcript Podcast Transcript Unavailable Downloadable PDF TranscriptAbout The HostEvan Nappen, Esq.Known as “America’s Gun Lawyer,” Evan Nappen is above all a tireless defender of justice. Author of eight bestselling books and countless articles on firearms, knives, and weapons history and the law, a certified Firearms Instructor, and avid weapons collector and historian with a vast collection that spans almost five decades — it’s no wonder he’s become the trusted, go-to expert for local, industry and national media outlets. Regularly called on by radio, television and online news media for his commentary and expertise on breaking news Evan has appeared countless shows including Fox News – Judge Jeanine, CNN – Lou Dobbs, Court TV, Real Talk on WOR, It’s Your Call with Lyn Doyle, Tom Gresham’s Gun Talk, and Cam & Company/NRA News. As a creative arts consultant, he also lends his weapons law and historical expertise to an elite, discerning cadre of movie and television producers and directors, and novelists. He also provides expert testimony and consultations for defense attorneys across America. Email Evan Your Comments and Questions  [email protected] Join Evan’s InnerCircleHere’s your chance to join an elite group of the Savviest gun and knife owners in America.  Membership is totally FREE and Strictly CONFIDENTIAL.  Just enter your email to start receiving insider news, tips, and other valuable membership benefits.   Email (required) *First Name *Select list(s) to subscribe toInnerCircle Membership Yes, I would like to receive emails from Gun Lawyer Podcast. (You can unsubscribe anytime)Constant Contact Use. Please leave this field blank.var ajaxurl = "https://gun.lawyer/wp-admin/admin-ajax.php";

  Episode 292- Your Gun is in the Mail Also Available OnSearchable Podcast Transcript Gun Lawyer — Episode Transcript Page – 1 – of 16 Gun Lawyer — Episode 292 Transcript SUMMARY KEYWORDS Gun Lawyer, Second Amendment, Marxism, useful idiots, US Postal Service, handgun shipping, NFA silencers, firearm regulations, logical fallacies, self-defense, gun scams, dog safety, firearm training, New Jersey gun law, gun rights. SPEAKERS Teddy Nappen, Speaker 2, Evan Nappen Evan Nappen 00:17 I’m Evan Nappen. Teddy Nappen 00:19 And I’m Teddy Nappen. Evan Nappen 00:21 And welcome to Gun Lawyer. So, Teddy Bear, what’s going on, man? Teddy Nappen 00:28 Well, I can’t believe you outed my middle name. Just kidding. It’s something where I don’t know this. Dad, do you remember growing up, and you saw, like, did you ever listen to Rage Against the Machine? Evan Nappen 00:42 Yeah, I actually will admit to that. Teddy Nappen 00:45 Yeah, do you remember that shirt where it literally has the picture of Che Guevara? Evan Nappen 00:50 Yeah. Well, I have one of those shirts, except my Che Guevara shirt has him wearing Mickey Mouse ears. So, I call him Mickey Che, and I thought Mickey Che was just hilarious. Teddy Nappen 01:02 Yeah, I think it’s funnier because of what if I was.. I just learned like more about who this individual was. Evan Nappen 01:11 Che Guevara? Page – 2 – of 16 Page – 3 – of 16 Teddy Nappen 01:14 I love how the Left tote him as their revolutionary hero. This guy put gays and Catholics in concentration camps. He tried to purify the Spanish race. And in details describing again, like trying to talk about black people, trying to remove them from society. He personally executed 100 people. Evan Nappen 01:38 He’s actually completely aligned with the progressive Left, if you really think about it. Teddy Nappen 01:43 True. Evan Nappen 01:44 I mean, the reality of what the Left does, you know. They are the kings of hypocrites. They are masters of double think. They have one goal and that is to destroy America. I mean, that’s their entire agenda. If you think about everything, they’re for, and every single item they are for harms our country in some way. Everything is harmful, and this is what they’re all about. Teddy Nappen 02:23 I think there is a good, I think the best way to think of it, and Crowder from Louder with Crowder gives the best line. They are Marxist because you see them take the most insane stances, like queers for Palestine. They’re for funding the war in Ukraine, but not for dealing with Iran. They take these crazy stances, which just looking at it, just from like it would make no sense, except from the eyes of a Marxist. Where in Marxism, in go right to the book, “The Communist Manifesto”, you have to define your enemy, oppressor and oppressee. No matter the individual, no matter the group, no matter the stance you take. You could be the most hateful group against gays, but if you are the oppressed, if you are the underdog, you are the good guy in their ideology. That is how screwed up it is, and they will take whatever political stance to achieve power for the sake of Marxism. Evan Nappen 03:18 Yeah, they are the useful idiots for the Marxists, for those that want to destroy America. They’re the useful idiots. And by the way, the only redeeming factor at all to their entire agenda of Marxism is that if they ever were to succeed, they’re the first ones that will get killed. They’re the ones that the Marxists will then kill when they don’t need them anymore, and that is exactly the playbook of the Marxist takeovers. Teddy Nappen 03:54 Cut to Iran with the students, which are all Islamo communists who took over. By the way, when the Iranian regime took over, guess who they executed first? The communists. Evan Nappen 04:05 Well, it’s the playbook every time. They’re just useful idiots until they’re no longer useful, and then they’re dead idiots. Page – 4 – of 16 Teddy Nappen 04:16 And then what is it, the old phrase. You can vote your way into communism, but you have to shoot your way out. Evan Nappen 04:21 That’s it. That’s it. So, luckily, we are exposing, you know, the truth is out there, and this political battle for the future of our country is clear and normal America gets it. I really believe they do. And the extremists on the Left, of course, are the worst when it comes to our Second Amendment rights. They’re not going to be in a general sense successful. Now they’re able to have pockets where you see their policies destroy cities, and you can watch the destruction of these cities taking place under their policies. But that’s just examples being set to the rest of America, what we never want to happen broadly in the country. Teddy Nappen 05:26 Yeah, and speaking of Marxism, as I always, again, we always have to check on the Left of what they’re currently whining and crying about. So, Evan Nappen 05:37 Yeah. Teddy Nappen 05:38 Our favorite, our favorite fans at The Trace. We check out their latest article. “People might soon be able to ship handguns through the mail.” (https://www.thetrace.org/2026/05/usps-handgun-mailing-ban-shipping-rule/) That was the article. Evan Nappen 05:38 Oh my G-d! Everyone clutch your pearls. Teddy Nappen 05:40 Oh my G-d. Jennifer Mascia writes this whole article where the U.S. Postal Service is set to lift a century-old ban, and experts warn of the consequences. I love the term “experts”. Evan Nappen 06:13 Experts warn the consequences. Right now you can ship via FedEx. You can ship UPS. Oh, but somehow if we allow shipping via the U.S. Postal Service, oh, well, now it’s a threat to our safety, our country, everything. You know, it’s just, the sky is falling because of that. Teddy Nappen 06:38 Yeah, and I love how they’re saying, the rule would allow handguns to be shipped through the mail, bypassing a longstanding law prohibiting such practice. Evan Nappen 06:51 Well, you know, I guess they’re not aware that currently you can buy NFA silencers by having them shipped to your door. Silencers are allowed to be sold in this manner, as long as it’s a dealer in the Page – 5 – of 16 state that is doing the shipping. Now, this is the model that is so interesting with Silencer Central, for example. You can buy a NFA silencer online at Silencer Central. (https://www.silencercentral.com/) You can do your NFA forms. They have a great interface where you do the interface. It interfaces you to e-forms, the federal government’s forms for NFA. There’s no tax on suppressors anymore because of the Big Beautiful Bill. Once you get the approval, then they ship from Silencer Central, which I believe is in South Dakota. I believe that is where their headquarters are. That is then sent to their local dealer network that they have already set up, and that’s who ships the suppressor direct to your door. Now, of course, if you live in the DPRNJ, you cannot buy a suppressor because the state law bans them. But in well over 40 some states that respect the Second Amendment, you’re able to do this. Evan Nappen 08:38 So, this model that they have, which is computerized and set up well, is the groundwork now being laid in the federal government for this to apply to guns. And by opening up the postal service to allow the shipping of handguns, it will allow yet another source for shipping of guns via the post office. And the ATF 34 new regs that they’re proposing is to have computerized the 4473 forms just like the NFA forms are computerized. So, you’ll have e-forms that you can do for that. I’m sure companies will set up an interface in the same way they have an interface set up to ease the process for suppressors. And then even if, for example, Silencer Central were to use their existing network, you could buy the gun of your choice online, and then it will be sent through their network. It will be shipped directly to your door. With the removal of the ban on shipping handguns in the post office, it could even come via the U.S. Post Office right to your door. Evan Nappen 09:54 So, we’re modernizing the business trade for firearms and making it so that we’re getting back to our pre ’68, pre 1968, ability to have mail order guns, and this is great. Especially for folks that have limited ability to get to a dealer. You know, not everybody lives close to an FFL, but everybody gets their mail delivered in some way. So, this will make the availability of firearms that much more easier for individuals to acquire guns. Of course, that’s what those that are the oppressors of our gun rights don’t want to do. They want everything they can come up with that can somehow be a burden on the exercise of our rights to exist. So, they fight everything and anything that in any way makes it easier. Teddy Nappen 11:04 This is even funnier because you could still ship your AR-15. Evan Nappen 11:10 Well, right, long arms are fine, even by the mail and by in-state dealers already. And, you know, although the law in 1927 about concealable weapons can’t be shipped, you know, concealable, they’d be mainly handguns, sawed off shotguns, etc. Concealable weapons. Long arms still could be, and it wasn’t until the ’68 Gun Control Act that the dealer network essentially got established and requirements for having to have the in-state dealer only for handgun transfers. So, you cannot buy a handgun except in a state where you’re a resident. You can buy a long arm in a state where you’re not a resident, as long as that dealer obeys the law of the home state and the resident state. So, as long as both jurisdictions’ laws are followed, long arm sales can occur right over the counter or at a gun show, etc. but not with handguns. This will dramatically change that for the better. We’ll be able to ship Page – 6 – of 16 handguns, and it’ll help establish these dealer networks to almost make irrelevant the restriction over having to have an in-state dealer on the transfer when it can easily just be shipped. So, that will be a great thing. Another improvement, thanks to President Trump and his administration on addressing the trade, the business model and trade in firearms. Teddy Nappen 13:22 It always makes me laugh from reading this article. The expert that they get, Robert Spitzer. Evan Nappen 13:23 Yeah, he’s a known quantity. Teddy Nappen 13:28 He’s written the Politics of Gun Control, and he writes this entire book making the claim that this is the time to push for gun control. Evan Nappen 13:46 Oh yeah, now. Teddy Nappen 13:48 He wrote an entire book trying to make the argument that the NRA is weak, and, and, and we’ve had such great strides in the anti-gun movement that we need to push for, and it’s yeah. Evan Nappen 14:04 Well, the NRA has been weakened due to all the internal strife, that is true. But the gun rights movement is not just the NRA. The NRA is important. The NRA does good work. The NRA has unfortunately had its internal problems that they’re finally getting beyond. However, we have the GOA (Gun Owners of America) out there doing great things. We have Firearm Policy Coalition, FPC. They’re doing great work litigating and such. We have Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms, and the Second Amendment Foundation. We have many other groups that are taking up the fight and many, many state groups that are also engaging. So, simply saying this is great because the NRA has been weakened hardly paints the picture. Evan Nappen 15:18 Then, of course, we have the most important aspect of why this is absolutely probably the worst time ever, and that has to do with President Trump. His dedication to the Second Amendment, and his administration with the appointment of the new ATF director, who is moving on President Trump’s Executive Order to look at all the regulations and gun laws, and to change the way America, the federal government itself, does business. To the degree of cutting the funding that was going to the gun rights oppressive groups, which they’re still. Talk about weakened. What’s really been weakened is the other side over the cutting of the monies to them that was taxpayer dollars. Page – 7 – of 16 Teddy Nappen 16:13 The other factor is, Dad, that they blew their entire control in COVID, where people were like, “Oh man, I’m in my home, I need to defend it”. I need to get a firearm. And currently, right now, all the Leftists are buying guns in droves, and they’re getting denied. Like, why can’t I own a firearm? Evan Nappen 16:37 They’re buying guns in droves? Where did they get these cars from the 1930s to go by guns with? Teddy Nappen 16:44 Nice. But it’s literally the most like weakest issue you could ever push for. Now, they still make, they still get their talking heads and all the others out there, but the vast majority at this point, like, are pro, and you can have your spurts of mass shootings, but it always comes back to, oh, who was the shooter? Oh, it was a transgender woman who thinks he was a man or some other mentally deranged individual. Oh, we can’t talk about that shooting. And it gets just stomped over and over and over again. It’s ridiculous. Just going back to the article here, the whole argument from Spitzer. Evan Nappen 17:26 Well, mental health is an issue. Teddy Nappen 17:28 Yeah. This college professor makes a logical fallacy argument against the rule change. He says handguns can be transported legally across state lines now, and it would be, and quite frankly, you could just drive your car and use your car to transport. Why would you need to mail anything? Evan Nappen 17:49 First of all, you can’t do that very thing. You cannot cross state lines as a non-resident and buy a handgun in another state. You have to be a resident of the state to purchase a handgun. Now, you can be, arguably, a dual resident if you reside in the other state at the time, either on the weekends or the summer months. You have property and you’re residing there. Then dual residency recognition is there. But if you’re not, if you’re just on vacation, or if you think you can just leave your resident state, go to another state, and buy a handgun legally, you can’t. So, that’s not legally true. Teddy Nappen 18:35 I think he was also referring to transporting, because the idea was. The other thing they were making the point of the argument was like you can ship your gun to yourself as well. One of the things that they were talking about, as one of the points for this. But here’s the key to the, what he’s making, he made a logical fallacy. It’s called a false dilemma or appeal to the alternative, where you give two choices where one exists. Therefore by that makes the other one is may makes false or true. Even though just because that exists, just because you are transporting a firearm, that doesn’t mean this negates the ability where you shouldn’t be able to mail. It’s a logical fallacy, and this is someone who’s supposed to be this politically smart. Evan Nappen 19:24 Similar to the Mott and Bailey. Similar. Page – 8 – of 16 Teddy Nappen 19:26 Yeah. Well, that’s why. Well, that’s the premise of most logical fallacies. You equate to something to make your argument seem reasonable when it’s not true. And this is why logical fallacies exist. You’re using them in debates. But here the Left can only use logical fallacies when making their arguments, because they have to appeal to emotion. Evan Nappen 19:47 Right! Speaking of logical fallacy, once you get into an argument with them and you’re destroying them, then, of course, their final, their last resort is, of course, an ad hominem attack. Teddy Nappen 19:58 Well, that goes back to. I Learned. Evan Nappen 20:00 Right. Teddy Nappen 20:01 I learned this term, just going to it. I think it’s called Godwin’s Law, where it’s the premise where basically everyone would keep equating to a political argument where someone would just say, oh yeah, well, that’s Hitler talk, or say someone is like being a Nazi or being like a fascist. Godwin’s Law is, if that get. Evan Nappen 20:23 Wait, and throw in pedo, somehow Teddy Nappen 20:25 pedophile, Evan Nappen 20:26 to your pedophile, Teddy Nappen 20:27 pedophile, Evan Nappen 20:28 I don’t, Teddy Nappen 20:29 Yeah. So, actually engaging with the subject, when you throw in that term, you have therefore won the argument, because they’ve now just resorted to the tactic of the idea. If the conversation eventually leads to Hitler, you’ve won the debate because they were right to that tactic. And I love he did this, though, because he was Left wing, where he was trying to make the argument about trying to be pro gun control, where you’re equating this to fascist, and then he tried to carve out exceptions. Well, if it Page – 9 – of 16 actually is showing real signs of fascism, then it’s okay. But it’s just the level, like, really? Yeah, you carve out. Rules for thee, not for me, obviously, so. Evan Nappen 21:13 It also goes back to their double think, and all that. I mean, it’s so Orwellian, man. The Left just lives the Orwellian dream here, man, with what they do. Every day we are fascinated by their shenanigans. It’s nuts. So, that is fascinating. Hopefully, as we move ahead here, we’re seeing all kinds of dramatic pro Second Amendment rights changes. Teddy, you said you had something else you wanted to share. I was wondering what that was. Teddy Nappen 21:57 This was probably from what is a lot of people in talking about is the Chud The Builder story, where he was a. Evan Nappen 22:07 Chud? He’s a chud? Teddy Nappen 22:09 Yeah. Evan Nappen 22:10 A chud is a stupid, ugly person, I think, right? Teddy Nappen 22:15 A self-given name, so, whatever. Evan Nappen 22:18 So, he’s calling himself a Chud? Teddy Nappen 22:20 Yes, that was his like tagline, and. Evan Nappen 22:23 Wow. He doesn’t have high self-esteem, if you’re calling yourself a Chud. Teddy Nappen 22:29 Yeah, there’s like, there’s all different, there’s so much stuff out there on the internet. Evan Nappen 22:34 So, what did Mr. Chud do? Teddy Nappen 22:37 Yeah, so he was a streamer. He would go around to different people. He’s a rage baiter, where he tried to say, like, you know, he’d say the N word to, like, go up to black people. Page – 10 – of 16 (https://www.soapcentral.com/entertainment/joshua-fox-victim-chud-the-builder-comes-scrutiny-alleged-past-crimes-emerge) Evan Nappen 22:48 A rage baiter? Teddy Nappen 22:49 Yeah, where he tries to get a rise out of people, which. Evan Nappen 22:51 Wait a minute. I understand he’s very, very skilled at that. As a matter of fact, don’t they consider him a master at that? Teddy Nappen 22:59 I would say so. Evan Nappen 23:00 Cause that would make him a masturbator. Teddy Nappen 23:03 Yep, he certainly is. Teddy Nappen 23:04 Okay. But what did this guy do? Teddy Nappen 23:07 Well, he went over, and he was, and again, we don’t have all the facts yet on this. It’s still coming out. But the basic summary is that he was saying the N word, and you know, making all the different jokes and going up to people. And then one guy came over and punched him, attacked him over that. Then he drew his gun on him and fired. There was a scuffle where he ended up shooting himself, along with the attacker. Evan Nappen 23:37 Holy cow. Well, okay, there’s a lot to unpack there, and we don’t have all the facts. But basically fighting words. So, if he’s approaching somebody and using what we might even generously call fighting words, or words to trigger, how’s that? This person. That still is not generally a basis where you can use force. So, the person who he may be offending is not necessarily justified in using force. But if he raised the stakes, the victim of this guy’s race baiting, raised the stakes to a physical assault, but no weapon, that still doesn’t rise necessarily to the Chud using deadly force. But, again, we don’t know all the facts. Fighting words themselves are not normally a good justification for use of force either way. And then if his response was disproportionate to what occurred, and plus he’s also, Chud there, is also treading in the bad area of “don’t be the instigator”. Don’t be the troublemaker. Don’t be the guy who started it. And that already is a strike against him for being that guy. So, this sounds like not a really smart person doing smart things. Page – 11 – of 16 Teddy Nappen 25:17 Yeah, and I will say, just from the quote, they’re also saying, again, unconfirmed, that the guy, the “victim” was stalking him because he was streaming and wanted to go there. So, that could be a factor because this individual was whatever. Evan Nappen 25:34 Maybe he was a stalker? I don’t know. Teddy Nappen 25:36 Yeah, we don’t have all the facts. Evan Nappen 25:38 You see, when dealing with self-defense, it becomes very fact-specific. It really does. Those facts come together, and the reasonableness of your actions – were you reasonably in fear? Was it a reasonable fear? Was it proportionate and reasonable, etc.? All that is what the jury is going to have to believe and understand and agree with. So, you better be able to convince 12 people, who aren’t smart enough to avoid jury duty, that you were extremely reasonable in what you did. Teddy Nappen 26:24 Under criminal procedure, though, would this be allowed to come out in the court? Where the “victim”, Joshua Fox, had a large rap sheet. He tried to set his house on fire with an aerosol can and a lighter. And when his wife tried to try to stop him, he tried to stab her with a screwdriver. Evan Nappen 26:41 It’s going to come down to a lot of the rules on what’s admissible, evidentiary. What can be demonstrated under what’s called “prior acts”. These are all important legal issues that the court will have to determine. Teddy Nappen 26:57 Multiple aggravated assaults, by the way. You know, DUIs. Evan Nappen 27:03 And maybe to what degree is there an awareness of the parties, of the background of the person. But these are all going to be things that will be in consideration. Teddy Nappen 27:15 It also kind of upsets me, though, Dad, is reverse the races, and what happens? Evan Nappen 27:21 Well, we all know what happens in our society, don’t we? Teddy Nappen 27:26 Yeah, and that’s Page – 12 – of 16 Evan Nappen 27:28 It’s apparently a one-way street. Just ask that woman who was. Teddy Nappen 27:36 Arena. Evan Nappen 27:37 Yeah, that was her. Teddy Nappen 27:38 You had a guy who was released nine times, gets on a subway station, stabs her, and then says to the camera, I got that whitey. I got that whitey. It’s disgusting. As they’re taking down the mural of her, by the way, because we don’t want to show offense. But why is it that it’s conditioned to say one word, how is that justified to be okay? We’re gonna beat the crap out of you, and also probably kill you over that word. That is the disgusting part. This goes beyond Chud The Builder. This goes to an issue. What was that documentary, the N word? Like, it broke down the utter insanity that has been created around that word to the point right now. Evan Nappen 28:24 It’s done on purpose, and you’re seeing, though, the demise in a way of that entire reverse discrimination. The entire thing that’s been placed on us as a society. It’s being rejected because the other side took it too far. I mean, once you start saying that math is racist, you’re losing people that are otherwise very supportive. Teddy Nappen 28:55 Also working out of. Evan Nappen 28:56 The original cause of having what Dr. King put out there, as it’s about your character, right? The content of your character, not the color of your skin. And that’s something that just about every normal American can embrace. We take each person as an individual, and we look at who they are in their character. When you start creating these groups that you either want to attack or groups that you just only want to help to the detriment of another group, then you’re going into what Americans viscerally know is racist, whichever way you’re going with it. It becomes racist, because racism really boils down to distinguishing based on race. You’re distinguishing based on race, and how that distinguishing takes place is where you can see unfairness coming from both sides. Americans are generally fair people. We don’t want unfairness. We want equal opportunity, but not equity. There’s a difference, not equity. Teddy Nappen 30:14 Yeah, that’s the problem. Page – 13 – of 16 Evan Nappen 30:15 Equality is something we can all believe in, because it’s fundamental to our existence. All men are created equal. We can all accept that we’re all created equal, and then we all should have equal opportunity. But once that equal is no longer equal, then people sense the unfairness and the discrimination, whichever way that discrimination is cutting, and that’s what you see. Evan Nappen 30:45 Hey, Teddy, let me tell you about our good friends at WeShoot, the place you and I love to go. We love to shoot there. It is a great range in Lakewood, New Jersey, conveniently located right off the Parkway. They have top deals, great specials all the time. They have a fantastic range, a state-of-the-art range, and the training there is second to none. You can get your certification for getting your New Jersey carry. Hey, you and I both got ours, and so did Brother Lou. He got his there, too. Lots and lots of folks we know have successfully gotten their training and certifications from WeShoot. WeShoot has a great website. You should really check it out. Go to weshootusa.com. Please go to WeShoot. You will love it. You’ll be glad you did. It is one of our favorite places, and you know ranges are important to support because they are a resource, a limited resource in the DPRNJ. WeShoot is first rate. So, check out weshootusa.com. Pay them a visit, and join as a member. Take advantage of this great resource for the exercise of your Second Amendment rights. Evan Nappen 32:21 Let me also shamelessly plug my book, New Jersey Gun Law. It’s the bible of Jersey gun law. It will help guide you through the insane matrix of New Jersey gun laws so that you don’t become a GOFU. That is my mission in life, to educate and help our brothers and sisters that want to be and remain law-abiding gun owners, even in tough environments, such as the DPRNJ. That’s why the book’s there. Go to EvanNappen.com and get your copy today. EvanNappen.com. Evan Nappen 33:03 Teddy, I want to talk about a double header GOFU. We’re going to do two today. We’re going to do two. Teddy Nappen 33:14 A binary GOFU? Evan Nappen 33:16 Well, actually, it’s going to be two separate GOFUs. One is a bona fide GOFU that you need to know about, and the other, they’re both bona fide GOFUs, but one we’re gonna call a DOGFU, and you’ll see why. We’ll save the DOGFU for a little later. Let me tell you about this actual GOFU. So, this is an individual who is new to guns. Now, I think many of my listeners are experienced with firearms, but you may be new to guns, which is fine. I welcome you on board, and as a listener. Everybody’s got to start at some point, where you learn, and your best way is to go to a dealer. I would highly recommend WeShoot for a first timer. They will equip you, train you, and you’ll learn right from the start the right way to do things. Page – 14 – of 16 Evan Nappen 34:19 But in this case, this individual didn’t know much about guns. He actually purchased a handgun via Facebook. Now, first of all, I didn’t even think Facebook allows the sale of firearms, but somehow, it must have come up on Marketplace or something. He thought this was a good deal. It was a Gen 5 Glock 20 with a number of magazines and a couple hundred rounds. It’s supposedly a private seller, and all this, and you know, it would still be going through, arguably, a dealer. It’s not unlawful to buy online, like if you go through Gun Broker or other sources. But it has to go dealer to dealer, and you need the permits. You have to do all that. This person, being new to this, wasn’t trying to avoid that. In fact, he anticipated they would be doing that, but thought, here’s a great way to get a gun. He paid for this gun but did not receive it. Instead, as I discover the story, I find out that the person tells me that the gun was shipped, the gun was shipped to a freight company. Evan Nappen 35:45 Now, folks, we’re talking today about shipping, about U.S. mail, about all that. If a gun is being sent, a gun is not sent via a freight company. I mean, that would be highly unusual. A gun normally gets sent UPS, FedEx, you know, the standard carriers like that, and it gets sent to the dealer. Well, this person is told by the person who they already paid for this Glock, which was, you know, $500, so that’s a great deal. It’s a phenomenal deal for Gen 5 Glock 20, right? So, immediately you need to wonder, why is it such a good deal? Oh, well, the freight company has the gun, but the freight company can’t deliver it unless you pay certain monies. Then they milk this person along to keep paying monies and claiming certain paperwork and all kinds of things have to be done before it goes to a dealer. Well, that’s ridiculous. It’s the dealer who’s going to do the paperwork. They just are the carrier, if they are even for real. Of course, here it isn’t. Evan Nappen 36:52 So, I asked, how much money have you paid to this freight company to sort this out? Have they been telling you? Two thousand dollars to the freight company already. And now they want to refund. Oh, they’ll gladly refund. But before they send the refund, he has to pay more money, like another $500 right? Okay, how was this paid for? Oh, Bitcoin, of course. Do you have an address for this company? No, it was just a phone number and communication over WhatsApp. Oh geez. I mean every flag you can imagine. And look, I’m not here to be mean. I’m not here to mock anybody. These people are con artists. They’re out there. The scammers are out there. There’s a reason they’re called con men, because they’re known as confidence men. They gain your confidence, and you have to recognize this. Evan Nappen 37:53 The GOFU is falling for the scam. The bottom line is, you know, don’t send them another penny. Report the theft, and you know it’s highly unlikely you’re ever going to recover a dime of what you paid. But the lesson needs to be learned. If you’re going to buy a gun, particularly as a new gun owner, go to your local dealer. Go to a dealer, go to a legitimate brick and mortar dealer in your state, and have them show you the ropes. It’s a great advantage to have a dealer there that not only can sell you a gun, not only do all the paperwork, not only be known to be legitimate, but also they can train you. They can help you pick the right gun. They can help you train. I mean, I’m not even sure whether a newbie should be starting with a Glock 20 in 10 millimeter. Yeah, it depends on the person and their skill. Maybe they had some prior firearm, I don’t know. But that’s not exactly. It’s a great gun. I love the Glock 20. But Page – 15 – of 16 that’s not necessarily the best gun for a newbie to be starting with, not necessarily. So, this is the kind of things, these are the factors that a dealer will be able to advise and help you. They’ll make sure everything’s done right and legitimately, and you have that dealer as a resource. So, this is important. Don’t be a GOFU, you know, the Gun Owner Fuck Up in that regard. Don’t get scammed. Be very careful with anything online. If you’re going to buy online, there’s protocols you need to follow, you know. If it’s through, like, Gun Broker, where it’s a legitimate site, then things have to go through dealers. They have to be vetted. Look at the feedback. You know, ask for help with others that have done these type of purchases. If you’re new to this, I wouldn’t advise jumping in to online purchases, not at this stage. Now, eventually, with what we talked about at the beginning of the show, it may be streamlined with major companies, and then you’ll be fine and safe. But that is definitely something you want to avoid. Evan Nappen 37:53 So, that is the first GOFU, but now let’s talk about the second GOFU, which is the DOGFU. Teddy, you have the background on the DOGFU. Tell us about the DOGFU. Teddy Nappen 38:43 So, just kind of going into it a little more, I think personally. Evan Nappen 39:36 This occurred in a person who was in a truck, right? They had their shotgun in a truck, and I believe they were parked in front of either a gas station or convenience store or something. Teddy Nappen 39:43 Yeah, and he left the gun loaded in his truck, and of course the dog. Evan Nappen 39:54 Now, this is farm country. I think it was out in Nebraska. I mean, you still shouldn’t have your loaded gun necessarily in your car. I don’t know whether that was lawful or not in Nebraska, maybe it was. Teddy Nappen 41:12 Well, the dog saw a squirrel running, and so he reached for the gun. Evan Nappen 41:20 Well, unfortunately, when it comes to dogs and guns, any pet and a gun, if you leave your gun loaded, safety, you know, all gun loaded never should ever load, even with the safety on. You know, dogs jump around, man. And all his paw had to do, which apparently happened, is get between the trigger guard and the trigger, and bang, that gun discharged. It actually hit a bystander, I believe, and caused immense problems. So, the take away. Teddy Nappen 41:52 I think the bystander was reported as a postman, by the way. Just kidding. Page – 16 – of 16 Evan Nappen 41:57 No, I don’t think so. But the thing that’s important here is that this is not that uncommon. It’s not regularly occurring. But dogs and other animals inadvertently discharging a firearm is not unheard of. And hunters, particularly those that hunt with dogs, need to be very careful. There are a number, any number of stories of hunters that put their loaded gun down, and the dog accidentally discharges the gun. You know, you might be looking to safely climb over a fence or an obstacle, you need to unload your gun before doing it. And instead of leaning it up on the fence, loaded, and then think you’re going to reach over and grab it, and a dog jumps up on it, and next thing you know, boom. You’re getting shot, or somebody else is, and that gun’s discharging. It can happen in a household, you know, leaving your loaded handgun on a table or on a chair, and a dog or other animal can jump up and cause a discharge. So, be conscientious about your loaded gun. Even if nobody else is home, it’s just you and another living creature, this type of DOGFU can occur. So, beware. Evan Nappen 43:27 This is Evan Nappen and Teddy Nappen reminding you that gun laws don’t protect honest citizens from criminals. They protect criminals from honest citizens. Speaker 2 43:38 Gun Lawyer is a CounterThink Media production. The music used in this broadcast was managed by Cosmo Music, New York, New York. Reach us by emailing [email protected]. The information and opinions in this broadcast do not constitute legal advice. Consult a licensed attorney in your state. Downloadable PDF TranscriptGun Lawyer S5 E292_Transcript About The HostEvan Nappen, Esq.Known as “America’s Gun Lawyer,” Evan Nappen is above all a tireless defender of justice. Author of eight bestselling books and countless articles on firearms, knives, and weapons history and the law, a certified Firearms Instructor, and avid weapons collector and historian with a vast collection that spans almost five decades — it’s no wonder he’s become the trusted, go-to expert for local, industry and national media outlets. Regularly called on by radio, television and online news media for his commentary and expertise on breaking news Evan has appeared countless shows including Fox News – Judge Jeanine, CNN – Lou Dobbs, Court TV, Real Talk on WOR, It’s Your Call with Lyn Doyle, Tom Gresham’s Gun Talk, and Cam & Company/NRA News. As a creative arts consultant, he also lends his weapons law and historical expertise to an elite, discerning cadre of movie and television producers and directors, and novelists. He also provides expert testimony and consultations for defense attorneys across America. Email Evan Your Comments and Questions  [email protected] Join Evan’s InnerCircleHere’s your chance to join an elite group of the Savviest gun and knife owners in America.  Membership is totally FREE and Strictly CONFIDENTIAL.  Just enter your email to start receiving insider news, tips, and other valuable membership benefits.   Email (required) *First Name *Select list(s) to subscribe toInnerCircle Membership Yes, I would like to receive emails from Gun Lawyer Podcast. (You can unsubscribe anytime)Constant Contact Use. Please leave this field blank.var ajaxurl = "https://gun.lawyer/wp-admin/admin-ajax.php";