Episode 303-NFA “No F’ing Approval” Also Available OnSearchable Podcast Transcript Gun Lawyer — Episode Transcript Page – 1 – of 12 Gun Lawyer — Episode 303 Transcript SUMMARY KEYWORDS NFA, Silencers, Lawsuit, Injunction, Taxation, Firearms, Suppressors, AOWs, New Jersey, Gun rights, Second Amendment, Luger, Confiscation, Safety, Litigation SPEAKERS Evan Nappen, Teddy Nappen, Speaker 2 Evan Nappen 00:17 I’m Evan Nappen. Teddy Nappen 00:19 and I’m Teddy Nappen. Evan Nappen 00:21 And welcome to Gun Lawyer. So, we are right on the breaking news as we record this show, and that is the spectacular win on the National Firearms Act. It is the outcome of the Big Beautiful Bill removing the taxes on silencers, short barrel rifles, short barrel shotguns, and AOWs that translated into the Big Beautiful Lawsuit. There were actually two lawsuits, which essentially put forward that if there is no tax, there can be no law, because the NFA is based on tax law as the jurisdictional basis for the federal government. If there’s no tax, then you can’t have a tax law, and hence the silliness, which is really just kind of funny, is the tax stamp says zero. So, how you get a tax stamp that says zero when there’s no tax? Leave it to the Government to create a tax stamp of zero. But now that’s changed. Evan Nappen 01:37 This is the most exciting change in, what is it? Ninety-six (96) years, to a challenge to the NFA. And it has very exciting ramifications. I’ll talk about how those specifically relate to New Jersey in a moment, but there’s lots of questions and lots of speculation and issues surrounding what this decision means. So, what happened was we had two lawsuits that were brought. One is the Silencer Shop Foundation versus ATF. There were other plaintiffs as well. The parties in the SSF lawsuit included B&T USA, Firearms Regulatory Accountability Coalition, Gun Owners Foundation, Gun Owners of America, Palmetto State Armory, Silencerco Weapons Research, Silencer Shop Foundation, the state of Alaska, Georgia, Idaho, Indiana, Kansas, Louisiana, Montana, North Dakota, Oklahoma, South Carolina, South Dakota, Texas, Utah, West Virginia, and Wyoming, and several individuals. Evan Nappen 02:56 Then there is Jensen versus ATF. In Jensen, the parties were the Texas State Rifle Association, which is NRA’s Texas affiliate, Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms, FPC Action Foundation, Hot Shots Custom, and several individuals. The court in these cases applied an injunction to the parties, quote, where applicable, the parties, agencies, political subdivisions, members, and Page – 2 – of 12 customers, both current and future. This means that the protections of the injunction generally flow downstream in that chain of commerce. And by the way, I am gleaning this information from the NRA-ILA in their article, “What Does the Texas NFA Decision Mean for You?”(https://www.nraila.org/articles/20260812/what-does-the-texas-nfa-decision-mean-for-you) They’ve done a good job of essentially the preliminary breakdown here. NRA partnered with the TSRA to provide joint membership for those that are interested. Evan Nappen 04:02 So, what got enjoined? What statutes themselves got enjoined? Well, it was the NFA’s registration and approval requirements. Those were what were enjoined, and they were enjoined as to silencers, short barrel rifles, short barrel shotguns for covered parties. The injunction also includes AOWs, Any Other Weapons for the SSF parties only. o, as far as AOWs are concerned, only parties, people that are parties to the SSF, which is going to mean members essentially of GOA and such, and the companies that joined in it, and possibly as well, including those states. Certain marking requirements are enjoined with respect to the Jensen case, while the effect of this portion of the injunction is going to take clarification from the Government. So, we’re going to have to wait and see on that. Evan Nappen 05:11 The further impact is that, which is perhaps more important than the statutes that are covered, are those that are not covered. So, under Title 18, it makes it unlawful for licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, licensed collector to sell or deliver to any person any short barrel shotgun, short barrel rifle, except as specifically authorized by the Attorney General, consistent with public safety and necessity. Now, in the past, that compliance was considered authorized or was considered authorization when there was an NFA compliance done itself. o, without further action by the Government, compliance with the former NFA procedures will likely still be required before transferring a short-barreled shotgun or short-barreled rifle. Then it goes on to explain that the analogous requirement for transportation of short-barreled rifles, short-barrel shotguns, was also not enjoined. So, authorization for interstate travel is still required. That’s where you have to get permission from ATF before you move with any of those firearms. Evan Nappen 06:31 However, ATF has proposed streamlining this process by currently pending regulations. Those are the regulations that we’ve discussed in the past that are looking to change by changing it in the CFR, which is the Code of Federal Regulations. The injunction also does not apply to existing SOTs, which is the Special Occupational Tax for dealers in NFA firearms. Now, it’s technically possible for non-SOT dealers to receive firearms from a distributor or manufacturer on an ATF Form Four. ATF will need to clarify if an SOT is required for dealers who engage in the business of dealing in these firearms. So there are still to be considered state laws, and that’s going to be an individual basis of each state’s laws about how they individually view these NFA items. And we’re going to talk about New Jersey specifically in a moment. Evan Nappen 07:33 NRA says moving forward, the Jensen case is one of three supported by NRA in their litigation partners with American Suppressor Association, the FPC, which is Foreign Policy Coalition, and Second Page – 3 – of 12 Amendment Foundation. Those cases, by the way, are Brown versus ATF and Roberts versus ATF. Judge Clark in Missouri heard motion for summary judgment in Brown, and they remain committed to expanding the injunction secured in Jensen. In those other cases, as NRA says, taking action under an injunction is not without risk. An injunction can be dissolved or stayed with very little notice. Please check regularly back for updates. While much remains uncertain with the injunction, the monumental nature of this cannot be overstated. This is the biggest win against the unconstitutional NFA in its 92 sorry math was off 92 year history, and it serves as a great example that the fight for our rights is never over. So, if we want to see some practical applications as to what’s going on when it comes to suppressors, it’s really fascinating. Evan Nappen 08:54 Now, of course, suppressors, silencers, are banned in New Jersey by state law. We are currently looking at challenges to New Jersey’s state suppressor ban, constitutional challenges to that. But for now, unfortunately, New Jersey citizens cannot take advantage of the changes if they are residents of New Jersey because of the state law prohibition that New Jersey still maintains. However, if you live in a free state, if you live in a state that is covered by this injunction, specifically through Silencer Shop, you can look at Silencer Shop’s website, (silencershop.com), which is very good, and it lays out the states that are good to go. Evan Nappen 08:55 If you live in a good to go state that is now covered by this injunction, for example, if you live in New Hampshire or if you live in Alabama, there’s the whole list of states that respect and understand this. If you live in any of those states, you can now order your suppressor and pick it up from the dealer locally, and when you go to the dealer to pick it up, there’s no form four. There’s no federal registration that needs approval anymore. There is no fingerprinting. There’s no notice given to local police of your acquisition. All that’s gone. All that gets done is a 4473. You know the same form you fill out for the federal government to buy a gun, and a NICS check gets done, an instant check. So, what it means is you’ll be able to go to your dealer, do the 4473, just like you’re buying a gun, and the NICS check gets done, the instant check. You get your approval, ad you walk out the door with your suppressor that easily. That is great, and it’s paving the way to finally get a full legal change to suppressors to make that, of course, eventually the nationwide standard. But for now, there is a boom, an explosion of silencer purchases. This will make it even easier, more convenient, more private, less of a hassle than ever before. This is extremely exciting. Teddy Nappen 11:17 There’s something very important to this fact. Going back to the, and I’m kind of extrapolating it to the assault firearm cases. One of the biggest things that is winning, that helped us fight, win that fight was the idea of common use. Where the AR-15 and all forms of their “assault firearms” were so popular that it was so much common use that it fell under the grounds of the Second Amendment. Evan Nappen 11:45 Right. This is going to explode even more common use, even though there’s millions of suppressors already, but it will absolutely aid to that. Now, interestingly, in New Jersey, sawed-off shotguns are a problem. Same with rifles; they’re a problem. However, Any Other Weapon, there are Any Other Page – 4 – of 12 Weapons, what we call AOWs, that are technically New Jersey legal, and this will change the game in New Jersey on AOWs. But we still need more clarification on how the feds are going to work it on AOWs. We don’t have that right now, but let me explain AOWs. Evan Nappen 12:32 Let me show you some common examples of AOWs. For example, pistol grip only shotguns. Now, don’t confuse AOW, which is Any Other Weapon, as an “Other”. Some of you may have Shockwaves in New Jersey, which are “Others”. Shockwaves are not AOWs. They’re Shock Waves. They’re “Others”. Others are different. But a pistol grip only shotgun is a short, non-face style scatter gun, right? But is reduced in overall length under 26 inches. Now, as you know, or should know, with a Shockwave, it’s not under the 26 inches. If it’s under 26 inches with only a grip, such as a custom compact 12 gauge, then we’re looking at that now. How those applied to New Jersey law become model specific. Of course, you still can have sort of shotgun, but State Police have approved for others. Vertical four grip pistols are also considered AOWs. So, a standard semi-automatic handgun or pistol format firearm equipped with a vertical front hand grip is considered an AOW. And AOWs have coverage under this, but how that’s going to apply now so that you don’t have to do the NFA and can simply operate under the injunction. We’re going to fill you in with more information as we get it. Evan Nappen 14:08 Smooth bore handguns. Those are AOWs. Classic examples of that, such as the H&R handy gun or the Ithaca auto and burglar gun. So, those custom smooth bores, it may very well now open up that category. Certain smooth bore pistols can, depending on their configuration, be New Jersey legal still. And if they’re even though they’re AOWs, if the injunction has its due effect, that’ll be easier in New Jersey on those. Also coming under AOWs are disguised or improvised firearms, concealable multi-projectile or single-shot devices disguised as everyday items like cane guns, pen guns, flashlights, or wallet guns, and of course those. Are all banned under New Jersey state law as covert firearms. So, even though you may seek relief federally in terms of the AOWs under the NFA, you’re not going to be able to acquire those because New Jersey has a specific ban on those in state law. Then there’s combination guns, certain compact over and under firearms with rifle and shotgun barrels, between 12 and 18 inches long, intended for single shots without reloading. These two can fall under categories of AOWs, specific models with specific determinations, and how this victory will apply, we’re still going to have to iron out the details since this is so fresh and so new. But there is going to be some relief that Jerseyans will be able to take advantage of, and in the long run, this is great for everybody as we keep the fight going on, battling the NFA. It’s a great victory, and it is definitely going to shake things up. Evan Nappen 16:10 And it has, though, some things to keep in mind that really require us to change this law permanently forever, and what I’m talking about is how we got to this point is something that still has a vulnerability to be changed back. Let me explain why. The reason for the injunction is because there is no tax, and because there’s no tax, then the legal logic opinion is with no tax, then a law based, premised, on the power of taxation can’t exist anymore or have its effect. This was used as a vehicle in the ’30s for the National Firearms Act. That’s what it was jurisdictioned upon. That’s what has been now eviscerated by the Big Beautiful Bill removing the tax on these four categories. he tax on machine guns still exists. We’ll get to that in a moment. Page – 5 – of 12 Evan Nappen 17:12 So, that’s what was the victory, but that was passed legislatively by what? By way of a reconciliation bill. A reconciliation bill deals with taxation and finance. Those bills can pass Congress with simple majorities. That is how the Republicans got it through, and by removing the tax on the NFA items with simple majorities, they did not face the challenge of a filibuster. Because they couldn’t filibuster. They being the communists. Oh, I’m sorry, the Democrats. Well, it’s the same thing. They couldn’t stop it. Teddy Nappen 17:51 Democrat Socialists. Evan Nappen 17:53 Right! Communist authoritarian nutbags could not stop this because of the filibuster being inapplicable to a reconciliation bill. That’s how we got to this point. But keep in mind, should the commies take power again, and you can substitute Democrats, socialists, whatever for commies, they’re interchangeable anyway. When and if that happens, then it would be at the moment within their power to reinstitute in a reconciliation bill that they do, assuming they have power through the Congress and the Executive who would sign such a thing. Keep in mind. If the Democrat, Socialist, Communists control both houses, and even with a Republican president, but a reconciliation bill that’s chock full of other things financially needed, they might even force the hand of an otherwise friendly executive. You know, President Trump, to still sign a reconciliation bill. A reconciliation bill that does what? Reimplements the tax. They may make the tax not $200, but maybe $200,000 or $5,000, or even if they just make it $200 again, or even $1 again, guess what? Now we’re back to a jurisdictional argument that the NFA is now applicable again. So, it matters who you vote for. Elections matter. They matter. They make a difference. Teddy Nappen 19:42 On the off chance, just on the extreme end, let’s say, you know, the pendulum swings, the Socialists take over and run it. Could they do what the ATF was doing prior with what was it the when going after people with like the forced restart trigger? Evan Nappen 19:59 We don’t know. We don’t know. They could do it. They could. Depending on what are they going to go and then try to round up suppressors that may have been acquired when there was no tax. If the law is suddenly back, or does it make it so that there’s an ex post facto argument to argue that it was legal at the time, but now any of these new ones need tax stamps, but old ones don’t. And then they’re going to be kind of like the way they ran magazines. It was before a certain period of time, and will they then be grandfathered or not? Because NFA didn’t grandfather. It had a new period of registration. But there is no new period ability unless the Secretary has the power to have a new registration period. So, I would assume if they do it, the Secretary would say, “Okay, there’s now an open registration period of ones you previously purchased. You’re going to have to register and pay the tax.” Remember that. So, this all can happen in the future. Page – 6 – of 12 Evan Nappen 20:57 But look, it doesn’t mean our behavior has to be based upon, especially you live in a free state, worrying about what communists might do in the future. But keep in mind, it still could happen. This is a great victory, but we need to take it further, and this will empower us to take it further, because it can help on the Second Amendment argument to knock these laws out. It can assist in that greatly. It can assist in legislative change once it’s done and out there, and people are purchasing them in this way. It makes it easier to pass federal laws to just make it the law and not just rely on the judicial action. So, there’s also potential future consequences that can run for us, not just against us. Regardless, it’s a great victory, but keep in mind these potential dangers that lurk. And unfortunately, if you live in New Jersey, there isn’t much here for you to take advantage of at the moment, but in the big picture, it’s working to protect our rights. Teddy Nappen 22:06 This is just a side note. I was thinking. I heard this term where just because you put a word in front of the other word, it doesn’t always change the definition. So, if I say Democrat murderer, that doesn’t change the definition of murderer. So, for them trying to rebrand the Socialists, like no, no, no, we’re not like that. We’re Democrat Socialists, not to every other socialist government that has failed. No, no, we’re different. We just want to abolish prisons and abolish police. Evan Nappen 22:35 Well, I love when they talk about ow communism, look communism just wasn’t done right, you know. It just hasn’t been done right. Well, I guess they’ll probably make the same argument for Nazism. Oh, Nazism just hasn’t been done right yet. Okay, so that’s all. That’s all. Just hasn’t been done right. I mean, no. We’ve experienced and seen what history has to say about these stupid ideas of Socialism and Communism and Nazism. We’ve seen it, and it doesn’t fly. As a matter of fact, look at what’s going on in Central America right now with the enormous economic change. They’ve been getting rid of their Socialist systems. Teddy Nappen 23:21 So, maybe that’s what happens when you defund USAID. Evan Nappen 23:23 Yeah, isn’t that amazing how these countries are suddenly doing great? I mean, you think about USAID. We were actually promoting Socialism to our central and southern Central American neighbors. It’s just nuts. It’s nuts that we would be doing this. Not to mention that the Democrat Party suddenly, coincidentally, is now 2 million in debt after USAID was folded up and shuttered. Teddy Nappen 23:52 The one I always laugh at is, I think it was the like it’s like something crazy, like $7 million to LGBTQAI plus in Serbia, which I guess worked because they’re like a lesbian, but it’s like it’s so oh my god, like and then well like it was like Sesame Street in Afghanistan, which okay. Page – 7 – of 12 Evan Nappen 24:14 Right and promoting DEI everywhere, which just is hardly a national interest, or for our national security, or what America’s founding principles are all about. But let me tell you about our friends at WeShoot. his week WeShoot is offering OA Defense 2311 Pro Elite, and that is a modern focus platform that blends the familiar 1911 style characteristics with contemporary design, premium construction, and competition-inspired features. There’s also the Special Ops Tactical STX 15. Now that’s an AR platform rifle with unmistakable SOT attitude, combining distinctive styling with purpose-built modern sporting rifle platform. Then there’s the Mossberg 990 Aftershock. Mossberg takes that unmistakable Aftershock concept into semi-auto territory, thereby creating a bold new addition to its defensive lineup. WeShoot has cutting-edge guns. They’re there for you. Make sure you check out WeShoot, which is an indoor range and phenomenal pro shop with great training. Located in Lakewood, New Jersey. Very easily accessible off the Parkway. They are a fantastic resource. It’s where Teddy and I both shoot. It’s where we got our training. It’s where we got our certifications. And if you go on the website, you can check out WeShoot. They have fantastic photos and just great photography. You can check out the latest from the father-daughter shoot and other great events that they’re running. And what is their many faces of two-way, where you know two ways for everybody, and they are pushing as well some really cool stuff, including being part of their photo shoots. You can reach out to social media at weshootusa.com for that. For any of the photo shoots that you do, this is a great place. They love their customers, and their customers love them. Go to weshootusa.com. WeShootUSA.com. And check out WeShoot right there in Lakewood. It’s a phenomenal research resource, and you’ll be glad that you did. Evan Nappen 26:53 Hey, let me also shamelessly promote my book, which is New Jersey Gun Law. The Bible of Jersey gun law. It’s over 500 pages, 120 topics, all question and answer. It’ll help you from becoming a GOFU. You want to avoid that at all costs in New Jersey. They are there to oppress our rights and turn law-abiding gun owners into criminals. Beware, protect yourself. Get a copy of New Jersey Gun Law. Go to EvanNappen.com today. EvanNappen.com. You’ll be able to get your copy of New Jersey Gun Law. And by the way, while you’re on my website, you can also check out the latest link to The Association of New Jersey Rifle and Pistol Clubs newsletter. They have featured yours truly, and my dear colleague Dan Schmutter and Scott Bach on the cover, and they have hilariously called us Second Amendment Heroes. And I’m assuming they’re talking about like submarine sandwiches when they did that. But regardless, you can check out their newsletter and check out the Association of New Jersey Rifle and Pistol Clubs. (anjrpc.org) You all should be a member of association. It is our state affiliate of the NRA by tied in with the great fights that NRA, as we’re talking about in Jensen, the NRA is like the new NRA, and they’re out in the forefront doing what NRA has done brilliantly in the past. They’re doing it again, and they’re working hand in hand with the other great gun rights organizations in our country. And it’s great to see the unity in these cases of us banding together to fight the good fight for what we all know and love and believe in, and that’s the Second Amendment. Teddy, what do you have for us in Press Checks? Teddy Nappen 29:16 Well, as everyone knows, Press Checks are always free. I thought I’d do something a little different, where I find, you know, a crazy article that I just could not pass up. It was too funny. This was coming Page – 8 – of 12 right out of the New York Post. Adolf Hitler’s $42 million Luger, the most valuable pistol in the world is at the center of a sensational court battle. Well, that’s one hell of a grabber of a title. Evan Nappen 29:49 And what do they say it’s worth? Teddy Nappen 29:51 $42 million. Evan Nappen 29:54 I wonder how they came up with that number. Teddy Nappen 29:56 So, this involves a court battle between an appliance repairman and a cop in Argentina. Evan Nappen 30:01 Arrrgentina. Teddy Nappen 30:04 Yeah, I know. You know, one of them said he was from the boys of Brazil, and I’m just joking. Evan Nappen 30:11 Uh huh. Well, it would make sense that it would end up in Argentina, wouldn’t it? Teddy Nappen 30:16 Yeah. The what is it? The what was the one guy they caught in Argentina? Evan Nappen 30:22 There’s been number of Nazis found there. Teddy Nappen 30:26 The famous one is the two Mossad agents scooped him up, got him drunk and put him on a plane. Then they ended up just hanging him. Evan Nappen 30:35 Right. Teddy Nappen 30:36 It was the, but it was one of if you go through it. It’s actually kind of crazy. So, it began where, if you caught the previous article of Adolf Hitler’s former home transformed into police station. Evan Nappen 30:39 How do they know? Oh, that was his former home when he visited. Page – 9 – of 12 Teddy Nappen 30:55 No, this is this is this is Australia. Evan Nappen 30:58 Austria. Austria. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, that’s his former home in Austria. Yeah, well, he was from Austria originally. Teddy Nappen 31:06 So, going to that was Austrian authorities Wednesday open police station building where Adolf Hitler was born amid years of controversies. This is a renovation to send a message that they will not appeal to extremist groups. Yes. Evan Nappen 31:21 So, you can visit Hitler’s birthplace if you chose to? Teddy Nappen 31:24 If you ever get arrested in Austria. But to get to the it going off of that, where it was the weapon that described the holy grail of firearms was allegedly swiped during a SWAT style raid by a masked officer at repairman Juan Pablo Rupel’s home in Buenos Aires province in 2016. To go into more details, he inherited the haunting historic ghost of the Third Reich from his German great uncle and former Hitler bodyguard Hans Rupel, who is accused of stealing minor items such as plate, glasses, cutlery at the time of the raid. Evan Nappen 32:09 So, the claim is that this guy stole it from Hitler. Teddy Nappen 32:14 No, the claim is that he had committed some minor stealing in Argentina, but he had that was his pistol. So, he was never charged the over the allegations, mind you. But still, the gun that is a Luger Parabellum .45 ACP caliber. Number five of only five. Evan Nappen 32:37 It’s a .45 caliber Luger? Teddy Nappen 32:39 Yeah, yes. Only five in existence of the 1907 prototype forged by the late famed George Luger. Evan Nappen 32:48 Yeah, George Luger. So, Hitler’s Luger was one of the rare .45 caliber Lugers. Teddy Nappen 32:56 Correct. And this was only for Hitler’s provinces. That would make them invaluable. The guns there’s 1979 firearm owner license in Argentina National Registry, so they register firearms. It was marked as Nazi Angel of Death who lived for more than two years before fleeing the so the 1905. Page – 10 – of 12 Evan Nappen 33:25 So, what happened to the gun now? It got seized by the police? Teddy Nappen 33:30 Correct. How did that happen? So, from what it was said that Hans it said now again this is not Hans says it belonged to Hitler and he was taken when he and he took it when he went to Argentina in 1948. So, from when from that point where it was stolen after the quote unquote raid, it is now gone “missing”. Evan Nappen 33:53 Okay. Who stole it in the raid? What police raid? Teddy Nappen 33:57 One of the police. One of the police officers. Evan Nappen 33:59 So, this is essentially gun confiscation by police, and supposedly the most valuable handgun in the world is missing once the police got their hands on it. Right? Teddy Nappen 34:09 Buenos Aires Ministry of Security for and has demanding lawsuit for the compensation for the firearm. The court held by the agency liable for 15,000 plus interest, which also 15,000 just for the raid itself, for the actual unjustified raid. However, the lawsuit also adds in the 42 million where two cops who had led the raid on the home due to the quote-unquote trial prior. Rupert told the post of great uncles that the Luger was taken from him. Evan Nappen 34:48 Well, I’ll tell you what. This is a common thing in New Jersey. I’ve had many gun confiscations by law enforcement in which it always seemed that the most valuable firearm that the client possessed. I had a case where one was a rifle given by Theodore Roosevelt to a cabinet member that disappeared. I had another case where there was a trapdoor Springfield trapdoor carbine that was documented to Custer’s last stand, and was an Indian capture gun that oh that that that was sent to the crusher supposedly and destroyed. You see, and I’ve had many different gun seizures that have taken place, and for some crazy reason, it’s that really valuable gun that ends up not being accounted for, and I don’t know why I seem to see that pattern. Teddy Nappen 35:58 Yeah, and then just for clarification on the individual Hans Zurpel, he was the SS Division Labest Start. He was Hitler’s personal bodyguard unit during the Second World War, to which he later fled to Argentina in 1945. This has been confirmed. So it is confirmed that this guy was a bodyguard, and he was a pistol to Hitler and registered the gun under it, so it shows proof of documentation to the actual firearm that existed. So we know the gun existed. We know the guy has the credentials, so that proved that point as to who swiped it. Well, it’s one of the members of the ministry, as what the suit is being led to. Again, that’s what they’re alleging in their suit. Page – 11 – of 12 Evan Nappen 36:40 Yeah. Well, like I said, I’ve seen this done Jersey side where folks, what you want to do with your guns is make sure you have photos, and you have recorded your information about your guns. Do not keep your data with the guns. Because if they seize your guns, they’re going to seize your books and data. And it’s not unusual as well for them to take computers and such as well. So, if you’re going to have this and recordings of it and photos and all, you know, keep it on a thumb drive hidden somewhere, so you can access it. So, you can prove and document the guns that you had and what they were, because I’ve had the missing guns after a seizure more times than I can count. It is common. Teddy Nappen 37:38 I also recall wasn’t one of these pistols also had like the early idea of a tactical light, like where if you held the pistol, it was. Evan Nappen 37:46 Yeah, that was a very special Luger. They made too that had early lighting attached to the gun. Yeah, that was a German invention, so to speak. You know, they did have those way back. Yep, yep. So, these are, yeah. Well, there’s a lot of valuable firearms out there, and a lot that have providence to make them even more valuable. And I don’t know if this truly is worth $42 million for a handgun, but it’s definitely way up there as a very valuable historic piece. It is something where you need to take steps if you have any firearms at all to make sure that you’ve documented so you can prove ownership. And if guns do get stolen, either by criminals or police or both, then you need to know and be able to have that information to try to recover them. Teddy Nappen 38:52 If anyone is related to anybody who served as a Soviet Union soldier who hit the Berlin and may or may not have picked up a Walter PPK next to a dead Hitler, call us. Evan Nappen 39:07 Yeah, I think that gun is not accounted for. This so-called Hitler suicide gun. If, in fact, he did kill himself, which now there’s speculation that the skull they thought was his was actually a woman’s. There’s all kinds of who knows, and did he actually escape? And, you know, we could find about as many theories about whether Hitler’s alive as whether you know Elvis is alive and whether Bigfoot exists. I mean, this is one of the favorite topics of conspiracy theorists and what have you. But bottom line is, folks, you need to protect yourselves. Protect your property. Don’t be a GOFU. As a matter of fact, Teddy, what do you have this week for us for GOFUs? Teddy Nappen 39:49 Well, this comes from Not the Bee. Influencer shoots self in leg while filming instructional video outside a gun shop. Evan Nappen 39:57 Oh, an instructional video on how to shoot yourself in the leg. Page – 12 – of 12 Teddy Nappen 40:01 Well, how to properly, properly rack the slide, and while doing so, when he was going through showing it off, he racked it. He broke every rule – from treat every gun like it’s loaded, know where you’re pointing, keep your finger off the trigger. And bang! Shot the artery in his leg and almost died. Always a good idea. Evan Nappen 40:25 Oh, yeah. He came close to bleeding out because it hit the key artery there. And that’s because he wanted to do an instructional video on how to properly handle a firearm, where he proceeded to utterly and completely improperly handle a firearm. Similar to the law enforcement guy way back, you know, lecturing to the students how he’s the only one trained and safe enough to handle this gun properly. And right after he said that, he had an AD into his foot. I believe it was. Teddy Nappen 40:58 Yeah. He was a DEA agent, if I remember. Evan Nappen 41:02 Yeah, right. A DEA agent. Teddy Nappen 41:03 Yeah, and then he picks up the gun. Evan Nappen 41:04 So, this GOFU is a very practical and fundamental one, folks. Don’t forget the basic rules of gun safety. They’re there for a reason. They’re proven. Obey those rules. Don’t take it for granted. Follow the gun safety rules. If you don’t know guns and don’t know gun safety, you need to take a gun safety course. Let this hit home. You don’t want to be a GOFU, a Gun Owner Fuck Up. This has not only almost cost him his life. And in New Jersey, it would cost you your gun rights at a minimum under their Accidental Discharge law, because it was done without lawful purpose. You didn’t intend to fire it. It was in the 100 yards of a dwelling, which even a car constitutes as a dwelling. Leave it to New Jersey to do that. You’d be looking at a felony charge for shooting yourself in the leg. So, don’t be a GOFU. Be extra conscientious. We want you to be safe. You need to always be safe using the number one safety device ever invented, your brain. Keep that safety engaged at all times. Evan Nappen 42:30 This is Evan Nappen and Teddy Nappen reminding you that gun laws don’t protect honest citizens from criminals. They protect criminals from honest citizens. Speaker 2 42:41 Gun Lawyer is a CounterThink Media production. The music used in this broadcast was managed by Cosmo Music, New York, New York. Reach us by emailing [email protected]. The information and opinions in this broadcast do not constitute legal advice. Consult a licensed attorney in your state. Downloadable PDF TranscriptGun Lawyer S5 E303_Transcript About The HostEvan Nappen, Esq.Known as “America’s Gun Lawyer,” Evan Nappen is above all a tireless defender of justice. Author of eight bestselling books and countless articles on firearms, knives, and weapons history and the law, a certified Firearms Instructor, and avid weapons collector and historian with a vast collection that spans almost five decades — it’s no wonder he’s become the trusted, go-to expert for local, industry and national media outlets. Regularly called on by radio, television and online news media for his commentary and expertise on breaking news Evan has appeared countless shows including Fox News – Judge Jeanine, CNN – Lou Dobbs, Court TV, Real Talk on WOR, It’s Your Call with Lyn Doyle, Tom Gresham’s Gun Talk, and Cam & Company/NRA News. As a creative arts consultant, he also lends his weapons law and historical expertise to an elite, discerning cadre of movie and television producers and directors, and novelists. He also provides expert testimony and consultations for defense attorneys across America. Email Evan Your Comments and Questions  [email protected] Join Evan’s InnerCircleHere’s your chance to join an elite group of the Savviest gun and knife owners in America.  Membership is totally FREE and Strictly CONFIDENTIAL.  Just enter your email to start receiving insider news, tips, and other valuable membership benefits.   Email (required) *First Name *Select list(s) to subscribe toInnerCircle Membership Yes, I would like to receive emails from Gun Lawyer Podcast. (You can unsubscribe anytime)Constant Contact Use. Please leave this field blank.var ajaxurl = "https://gun.lawyer/wp-admin/admin-ajax.php";

  Episode 302-Not Getting Tired of Winning Also Available OnSearchable Podcast Transcript Gun Lawyer — Episode Transcript Page – 1 – of 12 Gun Lawyer — Episode 302 Transcript SUMMARY KEYWORDS Gun Lawyer, New Jersey assault firearm law, Third Circuit Court, Supreme Court, stay granted, unconstitutional laws, Second Amendment, sensitive places, National Firearm Act, suppressors, Jordan Salinas, good guy with a gun, training, legal advice, gun rights. SPEAKERS Evan Nappen, Teddy Nappen, Speaker 2 Evan Nappen 00:16 I’m Evan Nappen,. Teddy Nappen 00:18 And I’m Teddy Nappen. Evan Nappen 00:20 And welcome to Gun Lawyer. Well, my friends, the wins keep coming. These are great times. You know, we have suffered from the oppressors on our gun rights for decades upon decades, and now we are seeing the collapse of all their machinations over the years. It is great and getting greater. And so, just within this short period of time, we’ve had the spectacular win in New Jersey in the Third Circuit Court of Appeals and the full en banc panel, all the judges, of course, finding that New Jersey’s 36-year-old assault firearm law and magazine law is unconstitutional. It’s a fantastic decision, as we’ve discussed, written by a Biden-appointee judge who happened to be the first woman of color appointed to the Appellate bench. That is fantastic and has multi-dimensional impact, of course, having that great decision. Evan Nappen 01:52 Now, with that having been said, yes, a stay has been granted in terms of the implementation of the finding of unconstitutionality. So, that stay is granted essentially because traditionally these kind of stays do get granted, especially when the Supreme Court itself of the United States has taken this issue and has granted certiorari over the assault weapon, what New Jersey calls assault firearm law under Viramontes and Grant. They’ll be deciding that. Essentially we’ll have a decision by next June on that issue affecting the nation. Now, New Jersey has got their stay because they’re requesting the Supreme Court of the United States to grant certiorari over New Jersey’s case, and the stay has been granted pending the final resolution, essentially, of these issues, or at least in good part, these issues by the United States Supreme Court. So, in the meantime, Teddy Nappen 03:12 I don’t know if you caught what the AG Davenport wrote in their press release, Dad. Page – 2 – of 12 Evan Nappen 03:20 Well, they can continue to irreparably harm law-abiding, honest gun owners over these unconstitutional laws until that finally happens. But what exactly did Davenport say as they try to turn an utter defeat into some sort of short-term victory? Teddy Nappen 03:45 We are thrilled that the Third Circuit this morning stayed its ruling on our assault weapon / large capacity magazine case while our petition to the U.S. Supreme Court proceeds. That ensures this 36-year law will remain in place. (https://www.njoag.gov/statement-from-attorney-general-jennifer-davenport-on-third-circuits-grant-of-a-stay-in-assault-weapons-large-capacity-magazines-case/) 36 years of going after people, putting them in jail, taking away their rights, providing ruining their lives. Evan Nappen 04:07 Hey, wait, Teddy, are you reading from their news release? Teddy Nappen 04:11 Oh, you know, I read their news release and then added the little context that they forgot. Evan Nappen 04:16 Did they actually use the word “assault weapon”? Teddy Nappen 04:20 Yes. Evan Nappen 04:20 Or did they say “assault firearm”? What did they say? Teddy Nappen 04:21 Assault weapon. Evan Nappen 04:22 Davenport called it “assault weapon” law? Teddy Nappen 04:26 Yes, assault weapons. Evan Nappen 04:27 Okay, just so you know, this is the top law enforcement attorney for New Jersey who is calling their law something it is not. We do not have an “assault weapon” law. We have an “assault firearm” law. Now, granted, it’s a similar issue, and you know it’s the same idea of going after New Jersey’s version of semi-automatics. But you would think if you’re a lawyer, and you’re a lawyer for the State that has this case that you might want to refer to it as the actual name that your State utilizes, because that term “assault firearm” is the term embedded in New Jersey’s law. It is a defined term under N.J.S. 2C:39-1. Page – 3 – of 12 They are called “assault firearms” in New Jersey by law, by law. But you know, why would she bother actually using the correct legal term when discussing laws? That would be amazing, wouldn’t it? Teddy Nappen 05:46 Well, Dad, I mean, just the abuse alone, just to give you the one-to-one. You’ve had many times where people have been charged with having a “assault firearm”, and it’s not. But they love to abuse it and just use whatever term they want. I mean that goes right back to Josh Sugarmann, and his whole idea of making that term “assault firearm” to confuse the public so they could pass their laws. I mean. Evan Nappen 06:10 Yep, it’s exactly that. Well, Sugarmann wrote the manifesto “Assault Weapons and Accessories in America”. That’s what laid the groundwork for this issue. It finally has one foot in the grave, is bedridden, on its deathbed, and the Supreme Court will hopefully administer the coup de gras in June 2027. I believe the odds heavily, heavily favor us, virtually to the point of I would be shocked if we lose. I just don’t see that happening, and the antis know it as well. Those oppressors get it that they’re going to lose on this issue. Teddy Nappen 06:54 It’s Viramontes and Grant. Evan Nappen 06:58 Yeah. Those are the two cases that Supreme Court has granted certiorari on. Just so you know, one is a local law out of Cook County, Illinois, that bans assault weapons, and has incorporated into the definition, magazines into their definition of assault weapon. So, the Supreme Court might actually address the magazine issue because it’s actually part of Viramontes’ law itself. e may see that. The Grant case deals with Connecticut’s assault weapon ban, state law, and when they challenged in Connecticut, they didn’t challenge the magazine portion. They only challenged the so-called assault weapon portion. New Jersey’s case, in the Cheeseman v. Platkin case, that court addressed both assault firearms, aka assault weapons, and magazines. And now, with New Jersey requesting certiorari, meaning requesting the U.S. Supreme Court to take the case, it also opens up the magazine issue. So, the Supreme Court that can do anything it wants might choose to address the magazine issue in the Viramontes and Grant decision. They might even, arguably, they could even take up New Jersey’s case and make it part of that. They might, and what most likely they’re going to just have it in a holding pattern. Evan Nappen 08:47 And we have the Duncan case that deals with magazines as well out of California, the Duncan v. Bonta case (25-198(. So, what it means is, if the Supreme Court doesn’t deal with magazines by next June, but just the guns, then they may very well take New Jersey’s case and Duncan with the split in the circuits there, and then deal with magazines. Like I said, they might do it all together. They might not. But New Jersey proceeding with this actually weirdly in the long run may present and give us a great opportunity because it presents magazines as a complete win by the court from our circuit. So, this may be one of those situations where you know the word to New Jersey is be careful what you wish for. This Page – 4 – of 12 is very interesting to follow. But I believe that all these laws are going to go to the dustbin of history. It’s just a matter of time. Evan Nappen 09:59 But as I have advised listeners, even when this decision came out, not to do anything because of the ability to get a stay. To wait and see. Well, that’s proven correct. I’s been proven out to be the wise thing to do, and have our listeners not end up being GOFUs by obtaining the firearms and magazines that are not yet technically lawful. So, for these continuing months, New Jersey is still free to enforce the magazine and assault firearm laws. Of course, if you have such a case or such a charge, your attorney, if they’re anywhere competent, will raise these very important issues and hopefully get your matter, your criminal matter, stayed pending the outcome and preserve the constitutional issues on your behalf in fighting it. So, be careful. Don’t end up with a GOFU where you’re facing these charges and your current counsel isn’t doing anything about it. I’ve had a number of those cases coming to me from other attorneys, where the client is like, my attorney never raised the constitutionality on these issues. Well, that is a huge mistake because you need to raise these issues, preserve these issues, because ultimately your odds of success are so great here, and it is essentially, arguably, malpractice to not, especially now, raise the constitutional issues if someone is facing in New Jersey or in the Circuit that has decided that these laws are unconstitutional. So, it’s very important that you be aware of that. Teddy Nappen 12:05 Would it be better if the Supreme Court does the other two cases and then take this one up as a mag separately, or is it better to do it all in one go? Evan Nappen 12:13 The best for everyone would be complete victory as soon as possible. However, if they’re not going to do that, if they’re just going to address guns now and then we have these cases to address mags, fine. We’ll fight the fight, and there you go. But the important thing, honestly, is that they’re taking the cases. Remember, for years they did not take these cases, and instead, luckily, wisely, maybe by planning it correctly-I don’t know-maybe intentionally, the groundwork got laid for the challenges to ultimately be successful. Because look, way back in May of 1990, I was an attorney. I remember this horrible New Jersey assault firearm law and magazine law passing. It was disgusting. Of course, it also became the Evan Nappen Full Employment Act. But the fact is, they passed this ridiculous law, and I remember thinking at the time, yeah, you know, in my heart, I knew this has got to be contrary to the Second Amendment. But we did not have any of the cases at that time. We didn’t have Heller finding that the Second Amendment is an individual right. We didn’t have McDonald incorporating the Second Amendment to the states. We didn’t have Bruen laying out the test of constitutionality and what test is to be used to see if guns laws, if gun laws are proper and constitutional. We didn’t have any of that. We didn’t have the giant body of historical research that is critical in these wins. We didn’t have any of it. Evan Nappen 14:08 And what the pro-second amendment gun rights side has done is nothing short of Herculean. All the forces together have built this fortress of the ability to defend and to fight and to take on the fight and to attack. Built this up so that we’re now in a position to have victory after victory. Yet, we see another Page – 5 – of 12 victory, another victory. Just determined in the Fifth Circuit, a nationwide injunction as applied to the members of the parties and their members, such as NRA and GOA and SAF, and FPC, etc. (https://www.nraila.org/articles/20260805/federal-court-strikes-down-nfa-registration-requirements-for-suppressors-short-barreled-rifles-and-short-barreled-shotguns-in-nra-case) All joining, attacking the National Firearms Act under a legal argument that was made possible by President Trump in the Big Beautiful Bill. Remember, the Big Beautiful Bill, which was a reconciliation bill, that was dealing with money, taxation, funding, money. When it’s done as a reconciliation, then what you have is no need or ability to run a filibuster. Since simple majorities can pass the reconciliation bills under the Senate rules, the Democrats, the anti-Second Amendment rights oppressors, could not stop its passage because they would. You know they would demand the 60, have the filibuster cloture, and the laws would die on the vine. But this did not, because it only needed simple majority. In that bill there was a specific repeal of the taxes. The taxes that get paid on suppressors, short barrel shotguns, short barrel rifles, on any other weapon, and silencers. The tax was eliminated to zero. And by doing that, it opened up the ability for the Big, Beautiful Lawsuit that was just a success in the Fifth Circuit, and how it worked was not based on Second Amendment arguments. It was based on jurisdictional arguments. Evan Nappen 16:55 You see, the National Firearms Act is premised upon the federal power of taxation. It is not founded upon the federal power of interstate commerce. Nor is it founded upon the military power. The federal government’s powers are limited. And back in the ’30s, when the National Firearms Act passed, they did not have the insane expansion of the commerce powers under the federal government. Therefore, the first national gun laws, which the NFA was, was jurisdiction by taxation. They imposed a $200 tax on suppressors, short barrel rifles, etc. Now, $200 in 1934 was just a little bit under $5,000 in terms of it being adjusted for inflation. So, imagine today passing a law that said any semi-automatic firearm that you want to possess, you must pay a $5,000 tax to the federal government in order to obtain it. Evan Nappen 18:26 You see how prohibitive that makes the possession, and then go through a registration scheme that is hidden in a pretext of taxation, which is blatantly excessive. And what has happened is by the elimination of the tax to zero, the court essentially said if there’s no tax, then there’s no law. Therefore, the NFA collapses in the enforcement proceedings regarding the paperwork, registration, printing. All the things that get done on the acquisition of NFA items. That law has been stayed for seven days, even though this is a permanent injunction. There’s been a seven-day stay to see if it progresses further, but that is a tremendous win on yet a different front of fighting for Second Amendment liberty. ‘ve had both of these great wins, and we have a lot to be proud of, and a lot to be optimistic about. Teddy Nappen 19:39 Regarding the big win with the NFA, I always want to see what is the what are the gun rights oppressionists? What are they pushing on this one? The Trace didn’t bring up something. However, Giffords, they’re flipping out, and I love this. (https://giffords.org/press-release/2026/08/giffords-reacts-to-federal-court-striking-down-background-checks-for-firearm-silencers-short-barreled-rifles-and-shotguns/) They go right to the. Just laugh, just reading it. This came from Trump’s so-called Big Beautiful Bill. Remove the tax on these devices. The court has struck down the National Firearms Act, requiring background check and registration of firearm silencers, short barrel rifles, and shotguns. Page – 6 – of 12 Silencers and short barrel firearms, and other than handguns, are rarely used in crimes today because current laws have stopped them. Ding ding ding ding ding ding ding ding. Logical fallacy alert, everybody! Logical fallacy alert. Correlation does not equal causation. Saying that this will stop that these things have prevented crime does not make it so. What is your argument? Oh, they didn’t. They don’t have access. Even though prior to that, they weren’t used in crime. Generally speaking, as well. Number one is handguns on that front. But I love how they just try to toss that in every time. Just a red herring every single time, and they try to push it. Evan Nappen 20:56 Yeah, they’re just propagandists, and they’re losing left and right. It’s going to end up, my friends. You can mark my words. It’s going to end up that their entire world of gun law schemes, machinations, all these things that they have hoisted upon us as they die. I am greatly enjoying watching these gun laws die. As they die off and are impossible to find workarounds that, as well, get killed and die off. That they’re simply going to be left with only one mission, and their one mission of the oppressors, the one mission of the Second Amendment rights haters, will be to repeal the Second Amendment. And that’s where a fight’s going to end up. A fight over the oppressors trying to remove the Second Amendment. Of course, they’ll push this through their socialist, communist political movement. Remember, they want to make all kinds of institutional, governmental, radical changes, including getting rid of the Senate, including ending the nine-person Supreme Court and expanding it, getting rid of the presidency being elected where it’s an appointed, et cetera, and going at all different constitutional rights and turning America into a communist nation, and in so doing, they will also push. And Teddy, I think they even are saying, even now, to get rid of the Second Amendment. And you’ll see them joining hands. You’ll see the anti-Second Amendment rights folks joining hands with the Communists, with the DSA, the Democrat Socialist Wing, as the Democrat Party in its civil war implodes over the monster that the Democrats have created themselves. This is their Frankenstein that is now running loose on them. Teddy Nappen 23:27 Yeah, and quite frankly, just going back to them where they have pushed and pushed and pushed, where they said we don’t. They and there was a great video where this guy was basically trying to argue the socialist dilemma of the Second Amendment because it’s that catch 22 where they want to ban arms but they need arms for the revolution. For their great, you know, seize the means of production, but they cannot because they still push for red flag. They still push for universal background checks. Evan Nappen 23:58 Teddy, it’s like the meme with the guy sweating as to which button to push, you know. Ban guns so that you get, you know, so they could disarm the populace, or don’t ban so that their radical, violent Left can have access to firearms. Right? You know, they’re conflicted over that choice. Yeah. But regardless of what politics may lay in the future, right now the wins in court and legislatively. Okay. Remember, this is a combination. The reconciliation bill, etc. That’s all an important legislative changes that open the door to the ability to win on the front of the NFA tax attack and the big beautiful lawsuit. We are making tremendous gains and wins. And it is absolutely a reason to be optimistic. Page – 7 – of 12 Evan Nappen 25:03 I’m looking forward to seeing the decision in Koons and Siegel cases. Those that’s the case that addresses New Jersey’s sensitive places. We’re waiting for that same full en banc panel of the Third Circuit. Now, this is the same court that just killed New Jersey’s assault firearm and magazine law. That same court will be rendering an opinion over the constitutional validity of New Jersey’s sensitive places in the very near future. We’re going to see it. We’re just a matter, any day they can come out with that decision. Keep in mind, it’s going to be very important in countering and destroying the Carry Killer bill that Murphy and company got enacted. They did it. How? They did it because of their hissy fit to the Bruen decision, mandating carry permits get issued. So, they tried to make it so that this insane matrix of sensitive places makes it so incredibly difficult to actually exercise that right. is same court that gave us this fantastic pro-Second Amendment decision will be coming out with the sensitive places decision shortly. I’m cautiously optimistic about that. Keep in mind that the vote of the judges on the assault firearm magazine case. That was a panel of 15 judges, and the vote was 10 on our side, and five against us. So, it was 15 judges. One of the judges that opted to stay in was a judge that had been on a temporary assignment in, and that judge was a known opponent to Second Amendment rights. So, of course he wanted to stay in, and of the votes of the 10 to five ruling, one of the five judges was the anti-Second Amendment judge, but that judge is not part of the decision that will come out of Koons and Siegel. Therefore, it’s a 14-judge panel. And if we see the same voting as occurred on assault firearms and magazines, we should see a 10 to 4 ruling. Keeping our fingers crossed here in favor of knocking out New Jersey’s sensitive places, which would be really fantastic. And so, hang in there, folks. We’ve suffered a long time, but our suffering is slowly but surely being relieved. Evan Nappen 28:18 Hey, let me tell you about our good friends at WeShoot. WeShoot has some pretty cool offers and things happening. They’re offering the Bull Armory Ultralight Pro, and Bull is proudly recognized as North Jersey Friends of NRA Gun of the year for 2026. It’s lightweight. It’s exceptionally accurate, and it’s built for everyday carry. The pistol earned its title through outstanding performance, craftsmanship, and innovation. You can check out that Bull Armory Ultralight Pro at WeShoot. WeShoot is also offering Hornaday Critical Defense ammunition. Now, you know, Critical Defense and that Hornaday line of Critical Duty, as well, is one of the most trusted names in personal protection. That round is designed and engineered for reliable expansion, and dependable feeding, and confidence when it essentially matters most. And let me tell you, the Hornaday Critical Defense and Critical Duty, those are polymer-tipped rounds that perform arguably even better than hollow nose. But are not hollow nose bullets under New Jersey law because the nose is actually not hollow. It’s got an insert filling the hole. So, because of that, it is an ideal round for carry in New Jersey. You can’t carry, at the moment, actual hollow nose, but you can carry Critical Defense or Critical Duty. And frankly, it’s got advantages over hollow nose. Evan Nappen 30:12 Not just because it performs as well or better, but also because of the nose having the polymer plug. It actually feeds even more reliably than hollow nose. So, it’s actually far superior, at least in these terms, to your normal hollow nose ammunition. So, check out Critical Defense at WeShoot. Also, WeShoot has the Ruger Mini-14 Ranch rifle. Now that Mini 14, that’s an American classic. It’s earned its reputation through decades of proven reliability, versatility, and timeless styling. And let me tell you Page – 8 – of 12 about the Ruger. The new Rugers are incredibly accurate. You know the old Ruger with the pencil barrels-they were called pencil barrels. They weren’t known for their accuracy. hey functioned well and sure looked cool when the A-team had them rolling, right? But accuracy-wise, not so much. However, the new Rugers are extremely accurate. The barrel is thickened toward the base, and it is a redesign that gives incredible tack driving accuracy to the new Ruger Mini-14s. The Ranch rifle will be able to deliver for you, and of course, it’s set so you can not only have the scope rings, the classic Ruger scope rings, but even a Picatinny rail that fits in where you could put the rings, and then you could Picatinny it up to whatever optics you like as well. So, Ruger has come a long way, and the new Mini-14 is something you need to check out. I really do love the new Mini. I have one myself and greatly appreciated having had the old ones as well. So, you can get yours at WeShoot. Weshootusa.com is their website. Evan Nappen 32:26 I want to also remind you that if you want to get a New Jersey carry permit, you really should get it. Join our ranks of 100,000 or more here of permitted carry holders. The more folks we get with carries, the closer we get to constitutional carry. So, make sure you’re part of that. You can get your CCARE certification from WeShoot. They have all the great training there. It’s a fantastic facility. It’s a wonderful resource, conveniently off the Parkway in Lakewood, New Jersey. So, make sure you stop by and check out their website as well. weshootusa.com. You’ll be glad you did. Evan Nappen 33:10 Let me also shamelessly plug my book, New Jersey Gun Law. The Bible of Jersey Gun Law. You need to have it. It’s over 500 pages, 120 topics, all question and answer, so that you don’t become a GOFU. Make sure you have that book. Go to EvanNappen.com. You’ll see the big orange cover right there. Click it, and you’ll have it in a matter of days. Go to EvanNappen.com to get your New Jersey Gun Law book. Hey, Teddy, what do you have for us today in Press Checks? Teddy Nappen 33:48 Well, as you know, Press Checks are always free, and I imagine you’ve caught all about the In and Out shooting. What happened there? Evan Nappen 33:59 Well, maybe our listeners aren’t aware of that. would be surprised, but they may not know there was a major shooting that took place at, at and outside of and around this In / Out Burger in Idaho. Hey, I don’t know if any of you’ve ever eaten at In / Out Burger. It’s a West Coast thing. I really do love In / Out Burger. Just a side note, by the way, guys. But anyway, I digress. So, I could have well seen myself ending up at In / Out Burger in Idaho if I was out there. And Teddy Nappen 34:33 Isn’t there mustard on the burger that they do? Evan Nappen 34:35 No, no, that’s Whataburger. Another great burger chain. Oh, listen, we’re gonna have to call this the Burger Show shortly, instead of the burger lawyer, hamburger lawyer. Page – 9 – of 12 Teddy Nappen 34:44 What’s the best at In / Out? Evan Nappen 34:47 I like to get you know they have the secret menu and all that. I get the protein wrap where they take their In / Out Burger and they wrap it in lettuce. You know, I’ve lost over 200 pounds, and I avoid the carbs. I love the lettuce wrap, the protein. They call them the protein wrap. They wrap their In / Out burgers strictly in lettuce, so you have no carbs, and they’re delicious in-out burgers. So, that’s my favorite. But their stuff is really delicious. However, on this particular occasion, it was not so good. We had a bad guy going there with a gun and decided he was going to shoot up the place. And lo and behold, what happened, Teddy? What happened? A fellow by the name of Jordan Salinas. Go ahead. Teddy Nappen 35:35 Yes, good guy with a gun. Jordan Salinas, where he was with his girlfriend, and they had planned a quiet Saturday. You know, going horseback riding, so and you know, going out for a nice lunch in Twin Falls. And as the gunman Chad Williams has been identified, who was shooting up the In-N-Out, Jordan drew his holstered FN five seven semi-auto pistol with a suppressor to fire back and save the people inside. (https://www.ammoland.com/2026/08/armed-citizen-used-a-suppressed-pistol-to-save-lives-at-twin-falls-in-n-out/) Evan Nappen 36:10 Okay, so first of all, that gun standard has a 20 round magazine, and it’s readily available to have a 30-round mag, so that gun with its standard capacity magazine, you would you would up until the recent case, and even though there’s a stay at the moment, you still can’t have that handgun with the standard capacity magazine. But I’m confident we will be able to. So, you couldn’t have that gun in New Jersey unless you had a lame 10-round magazine in it. Which what’s the point when you have an FN five seven that can hold 20 or even 30 of the five seven ammo? And then his gun has a silencer or suppressor on it, which is just great. Again, that is prohibited in New Jersey because New Jersey doesn’t allow silencers at all. So, here we have this crime being committed by this Chad fellow, and lo and behold, the hero, the good guy with the gun, breaks out his five seven with the suppressor and starts laying down fire on the bad guy. It was fantastic, and he was credited, wasn’t he, by law enforcement with saving lives, Who’s Crowder? Teddy Nappen 39:28 Stephen Crowder, Gladworth Crowder. He did a full breakdown on it, where it’s about training, where you just do enough to where you can handle yourself in a situation. And what Evan Nappen 39:36 did he? What did he say hasn’t been? Page – 10 – of 12 Teddy Nappen 39:39 So the one thing that caught is the fact that he’s has a suppressor attached to it, and it was identified in one of his other videos as he uses an FN five seven USG fitted Tactical Solutions Axiom suppressor, firing Vanguard 55 grain subsonic five sevens. Evan Nappen 40:00 Nice. Teddy Nappen 40:00 That was I so that may not now they may not be his exact rig at that moment, but that was what was reported to what he was practicing with. But that being said, this is one to one of what he was using in the and so Evan Nappen 40:12 you know when you step back, Teddy, and look at this. Normally, when there is some bad guy shooting up soft target area, the antis just cheer because they get to do a blood dance to try to attack and oppress gun rights, because it’s the old saying of they never let a tragedy go to waste. However, here the entire thing was turned on its ear because we had an armed civilian who saved lives and did it with a 20 to 30 round capacity handgun with a suppressor, okay, and so this completely turned around this incident to be one of the greatest current examples of why citizens need to be armed and ready and trained, and so the antis can’t even respond because in their normal blood dance that they like to do, it just always goes back to well. Look, we had a good guy with a gun make the difference. That’s the key, and it’s so important, so great that Jordan Salinas was there to save the folks that he did. He rendered aid even to the injured after. He’s just a great person as well. It was amazing to see this, that, and it so turned it around that I’m going to put on my conspiracy hat the way we sometimes see happen with the shootings that they use to go against our gun rights, I’m going to put my conspiracy hat on and say I think this, given how the outcome was, that this was a false flag operation run by us, because it’s had such tremendous-I’m just kidding about that. Of course, it’s not run by us. We, but you know, yeah, Candace Owens might run with it. Oh yeah, it was-it was the pro-gun side that engineered the entire thing. To no, but the thing is, the impact has been tremendous, and it’s now iconic of Jordan Salinas in his position. It’s like as iconic as Sophie Cunningham pointing is Jordan Salinas in his perfect firing position with his suppressed five seven. Seeing Teddy Nappen 42:57 the I’ve been seeing the citizen cowboy joke that’s been circling. Oh yeah, Evan Nappen 43:02 as compared to Citizen Vigilante, it’s now Citizen Cowboy. Teddy Nappen 43:06 Yeah, Citizen Cowboy because he has. But he’s Citizen Page – 11 – of 12 Evan Nappen 43:09 Defender. He’s not a vigilante. He’s a defender. He’s a defender at the moment. Being a man, imagine that being a man. Actually, is that your greatest example of so-called toxic masculinity, right there, called saving lives. I guess so. The Teddy Nappen 43:25 the other thing is, and I want to take this step further. I see where we win in the argument of common use. I want this to be a common thing where people are using suppressors in self-defense shootings. I want people to start carrying and doing that. I think there’s a lot of advantages to Evan Nappen 43:44 having them in self-defense shootings because Teddy Nappen 43:46 if you go back to the old where it was like we’re using 45 for the stopping power or nine, this guy had a five-seven with the suppressor. We were putting out more rounds, and you’re protecting your hearing on that. So it’s definitely that new frame. It’s a very interesting Evan Nappen 44:01 choice, and I’m sure on the technical side, people will can always debate what’s the best. But the bottom line is, well, someone Teddy Nappen 44:09 was going to say like, but look, what’s really the best Evan Nappen 44:11 is that a good guy with a gun helped save the day, and that’s what really matters. Evan Nappen 44:17 And Teddy, I need to tell you about this week’s GOFU because I’ve been seeing a lot of it. GOFUs, as you know, are Gun Owner Fuck Ups. It’s where gun owners make expensive mistakes, costly mistakes, and you get to learn for free. I got to tell you, this week’s GOFU something I see. You know, when it comes to restoring rights, when it comes to getting an expungement, I have to say, do not do it yourself. Seek professionals that know how to do it. I’ve been getting more poorly, improperly done pro se, where the individual themselves tried to expunge their record. There’s too much to that law. Too many complications. Too many nuances. Too many things you have to know to do it right. And when you do it wrong, it’s 10 times more difficult to fix it, and it can end up costing you. If you expunge poorly, and then you apply to get your firearm because you think your rights are restored and they’re not, you end up with a denial. Now you end up with falsification of the application because you wrote no when you should have wrote yes. You wrote no because you thought you were expunged, but you didn’t do it properly. We see this all the time. There is an entire procedure. There are things you need to know. You need to go to a professional. Whether, you know, and I just don’t mean me. Like some attorney. We do them at my firm. We do plenty of expungements. We help people with that. It’s great. But you need to make sure whoever is doing your expungement really understands it, and especially does it Page – 12 – of 12 with gun ownership in mind. Because when it’s done poorly, it can absolutely come back and bite you in the behind. Evan Nappen 45:54 Hey, this is Evan Nappen and Teddy Nappen, reminding you that gun laws don’t protect honest citizens from criminals. They protect criminals from honest citizens. Speaker 2 46:01 Gun Lawyer is a CounterThink Media production. The music used in this broadcast was managed by Cosmo Music, New York, New York. Reach us by emailing [email protected]. The information and opinions in this broadcast do not constitute legal advice. Consult a licensed attorney in your state. Downloadable PDF TranscriptGun Lawyer S5 E302_Transcript About The HostEvan Nappen, Esq.Known as “America’s Gun Lawyer,” Evan Nappen is above all a tireless defender of justice. Author of eight bestselling books and countless articles on firearms, knives, and weapons history and the law, a certified Firearms Instructor, and avid weapons collector and historian with a vast collection that spans almost five decades — it’s no wonder he’s become the trusted, go-to expert for local, industry and national media outlets. Regularly called on by radio, television and online news media for his commentary and expertise on breaking news Evan has appeared countless shows including Fox News – Judge Jeanine, CNN – Lou Dobbs, Court TV, Real Talk on WOR, It’s Your Call with Lyn Doyle, Tom Gresham’s Gun Talk, and Cam & Company/NRA News. As a creative arts consultant, he also lends his weapons law and historical expertise to an elite, discerning cadre of movie and television producers and directors, and novelists. He also provides expert testimony and consultations for defense attorneys across America. 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  Episode 301-Freedom Always Finds a Way Also Available OnSearchable Podcast Transcript Gun Lawyer — Episode Transcript Page – 1 – of 12 Gun Lawyer — Episode 301 Transcript SUMMARY KEYWORDS loopholes, firearm law, NFA trust, switchblade knives, forced reset triggers, machine guns, assault firearm ban, Third Circuit Court, SCOTUS, New Jersey, Second Amendment, gun rights, expungement, surveillance technology, AI. SPEAKERS Speaker 3, Evan Nappen, Teddy Nappen Evan Nappen 00:19 I’m Evan Nappen. Teddy Nappen 00:20 and I’m Teddy Nappen. Evan Nappen 00:22 And welcome to Gun Lawyer. One of the things that I’ve observed through my 40-plus years in the area of firearm law is how important loopholes are to our freedom. You see, loopholes are simply freedom finding a way. Loopholes have proven over and over again to be the penetrator to breaking freedom out of its imprisonment by the oppressive governments like the state of New Jersey that constantly work at oppressing our Second Amendment rights. We’ve seen loopholes have this effect in different areas, and I think we’re going to now see even more interesting approaches as we win on the various case law challenges. It opens the door for further challenges and things that get covered or not covered by way of various loopholes, end up getting the freedoms that we desire. Evan Nappen 01:49 So, let me give you some examples that have previously occurred, just to show you not necessarily New Jersey itself, but how loopholes can get freedom. For example, at one point under the National Firearms Act, there was a requirement that Chief Law Enforcement (CLE) officers had to approve applications. And if the chief law enforcement officer did not sign off on it, you could not then possess whatever you were going for under the National Firearms Act, whether it was a suppressor or machine gun or shortbow rifle. Whatever it was, the forms needed this CLE sign off, and for any reason they could deny it. There was no way to even appeal it, and you were stuck. It got realized that if you formed what was called an NFA Trust, there was no sign-off on trusts. There was no CLE sign-off on trusts. And that became the preferred method of acquiring NFA. Because not only was there no Chief Law Enforcement officer sign off, but also, you maintained privacy even further from doing it by way of a trust. So, 10,000 trusts were later filed with the federal government, and they finally put forward Rule 41P that got rid of the requirement for having a Chief Law Enforcement officer sign off at all. Whereas prior to that, they wouldn’t get rid of it, but the loophole paved the way. So, when it comes to NFA, they’re simply given notice, but there’s no requirement that they approve it. Page – 2 – of 12 Evan Nappen 04:07 And you see again, for example, prohibitions nationally throughout various states that existed on switchblades. Switchblade knives being a knife in which the blade comes out automatically because of a button or other device in the handle of the knife. The assisted opener was invented, where there’s no button in the handle but merely pushing the blade, and the blade still opens automatically. But with no button or other device in the handle of the knife. So, you could, in fact, open the knife automatically, just not without that button. It got around the federal switchblade laws and State laws. Even now you can have an assisted opener in New Jersey, even though there’s technically a prohibition on switchblades. And what we saw was many states, after these knives have become so prolific out there and commonly owned, that the switchblade laws have been repealed in the overwhelming majority of states. Now, New Jersey has not yet repealed their switchblade law, but it is on death’s door, frankly, as well. We have Second Amendment challenges, and nationally, there’s so many actual automatic knives now out there, due to the understanding of the loopholes to the Federal Switchblade Act as to how they could still be produced, how they could still be sold. Not in states that have specific bans, but they’re prolific. And that challenge is underway as well. Again, loopholes paving the way. Evan Nappen 06:11 I think what we’re looking at now is another battleground of loopholes that are going to come in very much in our fight for legalizing, eventually, machine guns. As you know, we’re all very excited about New Jersey’s assault firearm ban going down in flames as unconstitutional, and magazines going down as well with it. With that fantastic decision out of the Third Circuit Court of Appeals that we’ve discussed. Of course, that now opens the door for further challenge. The U.S. Supreme Court, SCOTUS, have granted certiorari on the issue of assault firearms under the Viramontes and Grant cases. So, by next June or so, we’ll have federal case law on it. I’m extremely optimistically looking forward to that decision, and I think the stars have really lined up. Even New Jersey’s decision is going to aid the U.S. Supreme Court in its decision. And, in all likelihood, I mean, nothing’s ever certain, but it seems to be extremely in our favor. The antis are crying about it and essentially throwing the towel in for the most part, realizing that their entire gambit of banning semi-autos is going to die, and thank God it will. But of course, that now opens up including when you. Teddy Nappen 07:48 I will say. Evan Nappen 07:52 Go ahead. Teddy Nappen 07:56 Well, what I was going to say is that I think we need to take a page out of the antis and a lot of the progressive movement. We need to push further and further. Like, don’t give up the ground because now we’ve won the battle on the assault firearms. Evan Nappen 08:12 Oh, we’re not giving up. Page – 3 – of 12 Teddy Nappen 08:12 Keep pushing to that extent. Evan Nappen 08:14 Plow forward hard, and we’re going to. One of the ways that we’re going to do this, I also believe, is with incremental important fights and with loopholes on our side. Loopholes. Again it’s that freedom finding a way. One of the most interesting loopholes out there when it comes to machine guns. Now keep in mind. We have a separate fight going on from the Big Beautiful Bill that eliminated the tax on NFA items of suppressors, short barrel rifles, any other weapon, etc. Now, they did not remove the tax yet on machine guns. But in the Big Beautiful Lawsuit, we’re challenging, as we’ve discussed in other shows, the very jurisdiction of the NFA. If there’s no tax, there should be no law. If we’re successful there, then the machine gun ban can die federally by simply in a reconciliation bill removing the tax on machine guns. You don’t have to even repeal machine gun law to simply get rid of the tax. So, that’s what can happen. And that can avoid the filibuster in and of itself because that can just be done in a reconciliation bill because that’s directly on taxation. Evan Nappen 09:33 But in a separate attack that we have, in a separate way of going at this, is the idea of the incrementalism that loopholes create. One of these great loopholes that exists when it comes to machine guns is what is called Forced Reset Triggers (FRTs), and these have really come a long way. Now. FRTs, as they’re known, make it so that the trigger is reset with force, so that you can very quickly fire again your shot, in which a shot is still required to be pressed for each pull of the trigger, but the forcing of the reset makes it so that you can fire extremely fast. So fast that, for all intents and purposes, it duplicates the speed of fully-automatic fire. But speed of fire is not the federal law. It is based upon having to pull the trigger for each shot. Evan Nappen 10:54 And in the Fifth Circuit, FRTs, in the case out of the Fifth Circuit were found not to be machine guns. They do not make semi-automatic firearms machine guns. So, under federal law, you see that FRTs are very popular now in many, many states. They have evolved to where, for example, FRTs on AR-15 platforms are now created in what are called three-position safety FRTs. The three-position safety, for those of you familiar with how an AR-15 works, the safety on ARs will rotate to three positions. You have the “fire”, then you have “safe”, and then you have what’s called the “happy switch”, where on the complete roll around, it will go full auto. Well, they now have FRTs that, in the third position, will put the AR in a forced reset trigger position. You can then fire at that very rapid rate of fire. Essentially making it indistinguishable from fully automatic fire in effect, but mechanically, the trigger is in fact being pulled technically for each shot. These FRTs have developed to where they’re extremely reliable. It’s quite an amazing innovation, so that you can have an AR-15 that essentially functions like a fully automatic AR-15, but it’s not fully automatic. It utilizes the three position that an M16 would in fact use or an M4 that’s fully auto type AR would use. But it doesn’t technically fire fully automatic because each shot is being pulled for every shot being fired. Even though it’s done by way of this forced reset. Page – 4 – of 12 Evan Nappen 13:26 So, the interesting question is: are forced reset triggers legal in New Jersey? Let’s explore that question right now. When you look at New Jersey’s ban on machine guns, New Jersey prohibits machine guns under N.J.S. 2C:39-5, specifically under subsection a., which says: Any person who knowingly has in his possession a machine gun or any instrument or device adaptable for use as a machine gun, without being licensed to do so as provided under 58-5, which is the machine gun license, is guilty of a crime of the second degree. Now that 58-5 license actually is license to carry and possess machine guns and assault firearms. Oh, wait a minute! If the assault firearm law is unconstitutional, and the license for an assault firearm is the same license for a machine gun, oh my! Look what door has just opened in New Jersey when it comes to getting a machine gun / assault firearm license. There’s a path to be taken there, but that’s a discussion for another day. Evan Nappen 14:59 Let’s stay focused on FRTs. The machine gun is defined in New Jersey under N.J.S. 2C:39-1. section i. Under the 39-1.i definition of machine gun, it says. “Machine gun means any firearm, mechanism or instrument not requiring that the trigger be pressed for each shot and having a reservoir, belt or other means for storing and carrying ammunition which can be loaded into the firearm, mechanism or instrument and fired therefrom. A machine gun also shall include, without limitation, any firearm with a trigger crank attached.” Okay, well pressed for each shot. Well, guess what? With a Forced Reset Trigger, you are pressing the trigger for each shot. Now, before you get too excited about that, New Jersey, of course, has taken a position, which we’ll discuss in a moment, about how they’re viewing that definition. However, the fight is on. The fight is on. Evan Nappen 16:12 But let’s continue. First of all, is an FRT a trigger crank? Well, a trigger crank is defined under section ff. of 39-1. It says a trigger crank means any device or instrument to be attached to a firearm that repeatedly activates the trigger of the firearm through the use of a lever or other part that is turned in a circular motion. It does not include any weapon initially designed and manufactured to fire through the use of a crank or lever. So, Gatling guns are legal in New Jersey because they’re designed from the beginning with a crank. A crank that you attach to a semi-automatic firearm is specifically banned and placed within the machine gun definition. But an FRT is not a crank. Evan Nappen 17:13 What else does New Jersey prohibit? It prohibits a “bump stock”. What’s a “bump stock”? Well, that’s any device or instrument for a firearm that increases the rate of fire achievable with the firearm by using energy from the recoil of the firearm to generate a reciprocating action that facilitates repeated activation of the trigger. And as you know, bump stocks are stocks, and they utilize the recoil in that way. A Forced Reset Trigger isn’t working in that mechanism either, and that can be demonstrated as well. So, cranks or bump stocks themselves, mere possession of them, are prohibited under N.J.S. 2C:39-3, subsection l. You have separate prohibitions on those items. Furthermore, the law states that a conviction for possessing them doesn’t merge with a conviction for possession of an assault firearm. However, possession of an assault firearm is unconstitutionally going to go down the tubes, as we know, from that great decision out of the Third Circuit Court of Appeals. So, we’re simply dealing with cranks and bump stocks as standalone prohibited items, but not assault firearms. Page – 5 – of 12 Evan Nappen 18:35 But the question becomes: Does New Jersey still ban Forced Reset Triggers? Interestingly, when AI is asked about this, when AI is questioned, for fun, I thought I’d ask AI about it. And what AI says, particularly Gemini, if you’re interested, it says the state prohibits them by treating them as machine guns and machine gun conversions under New Jersey statutes 39-1 and 39-5. Then it goes to cite New Jersey’s machine gun classification and statutory provisions and enforcement position. Okay, let’s look at each one. Machine gun classification. New Jersey law enforcement and the Attorney General’s office classify FRTs as illegal machine gun conversion devices because they enable semi-automatic weapons to fire multiple rounds continuously with a single function of the trigger. Okay, guess what? We have a fight on our hands with that. That is their position. Keep that in mind. If you’re caught with one in New Jersey, the state will make that claim. However, as you can see from the actual definition, we have excellent grounds for arguing that they are wrong. We don’t have case law establishing it yet, but loopholes help find the way. Evan Nappen 20:07 Statutory provisions. They’re claiming that 39-5 prohibits possession of machine gun or any device that converts a firearm to a machine gun. Well, we just determined that it’s about pressing a trigger, and the trigger still is pressed with an FRT. So, that part of AI seems to be no good. I brought that up in my continuing conversation with AI, and AI responded. You point out, which I am pointing out, that a central distinction that gun rights advocate and federal courts have leveraged to argue FRTs are not machine guns under the Federal Firearms Act, a machine gun is defined as a weapon that fires automatically by a single function of the trigger. Because an FRT physically resets and forces a shooter to apply distinct pressure for each shot, federal courts like the Fifth Circuit have ruled FRTs require a separate trigger function per round and thus fall outside the federal definition. Evan Nappen 21:09 However, New Jersey law applies a different statutory standard and circumvents the single function trigger loophole. Really? I thought it just said distinct pressure for each shot. What the hell is AI even talking about? Well, they’re claiming that New Jersey has different statutory language. They’re saying machine gun means any firing mechanism, not requiring that the trigger be pressed for each shot. AI makes that bold. Yet we know that it does. So, where are they coming from with this? Well, they’re giving a legal interpretation that the state’s legal argument tries to distinguish between pressed and pulled. The state’s position is that the New Jersey Attorney General and state prosecutors argue that with an FRT, the shooter applies one continuous undivided downward pressure with their finger. Because the firearm’s internal recoil energy forcibly resets the trigger against the finger, the shooter does not deliberately release and consciously press the trigger again for each shot. Evan Nappen 22:21 However, they’re saying, and again, it says conclusion. Therefore, the state views the continuous rearward pressure of a single finger squeeze as a single continuous act, meaning the shooter is not actively pressing the trigger for each individual shot. Even though what’s happening is what? The trigger is being pressed for each shot. Ha! Battleground, right there, my friends. Battleground. Not determined yet. I don’t think you want to be the test case, but the fight is there to be had. Page – 6 – of 12 Evan Nappen 22:54 Aggressive multi-state litigation. New Jersey actively defends this strict interpretation, and yes, they will. The state led a coalition of 16 states urging that the Fifth Circuit reverse federal rollbacks on FRT bans. Explicitly stating that FRTs are new, but mechanical principles which they operate are not. They say the state maintains FRTs are fundamentally designed to evade automatic weapon restrictions and fall squarely within the state’s sweeping definition of rapid fire modification. Well, you’re right. They do evade it. They evade it by following what the law requires and finding the loophole that finds the freedom. The argument is there. Evan Nappen 23:42 Then, in my questioning of AI, it said you said, “Does New Jersey ban FRTs, and if so, how? They say yes. New Jersey bans FTRs. The state prohibits them by treating them as machine guns. We’ve gone through again in this loophole of a loop, how and why. Then AI puts forward Senate Bill 2097 specifically bans binary triggers as well. Well, guess what? That didn’t pass. Ah, but they claim that binary triggers falls under the same legal arguments because you’re releasing, not pressing. You can see the battle. What makes this so fascinating, my friends, is that this is now going to become a hotter topic for New Jersey. As we see the death of the 36-year-old assault firearm ban and semi-automatics not being treated in any different way. We then see these fronts, these battlefronts opening up for challenging New Jersey’s machine gun definition, which can occur through their still existing licensing law, and can occur through the battle of the loopholes under FRTs and binary triggers. We are seeing glorious opportunities before us to destroy New Jersey’s gun rights oppression. And that is the power of loopholes. Let me also. Go ahead, Teddy. Teddy Nappen 25:41 What I was going to say is, what’s going to come next is basically once we achieved it, where machine guns are legalized and we’ve basically knocked all their laws out. This is goes back to what the the Democrat Socialists put out, and then they’re gonna go for trying to abolish the Second Amendment. Evan Nappen 26:02 That’s right. Teddy Nappen 26:04 But that’s the whole idea. The whole argument of how we won on dealing with the assault weapon ban was the “common use”. So, I think just continuing to flood the market and to make sure guns outpace the population is the only way we’re going to ever protect the rights. Just manufacturing and outpacing them. Evan Nappen 26:05 The more commonly owned, the better. Evan Nappen 26:29 Hey, I want to tell you about our good friends at WeShoot. They have something really cool. They have the Civilian Shoot House Training, and that will be taking place on Friday, August 14, eight a.m. to Page – 7 – of 12 noon. This is something new at WeShoot. This is not a beginner class. This is where training becomes real. WeShoot’s Civilian Shoot House Training is built for people who understand one thing: real situations don’t happen standing still on a lane. You’ll learn how to move through your home, how to clear rooms, how to make decisions under pressure the right way. What you’ll learn in the Civilian Shoot House Training is room clearing fundamentals, shooting while moving, target identification under stress, proper use of light and positioning, operating solo or as a team. Now, this is the kind of training that helps you protect your family and avoid tragic, life-changing mistakes. Evan Nappen 27:44 This training is ideal for homeowners and parents, houses of worship security teams, armed guards, civilian groups, anyone serious about real-world defense. And you’ll be training with the real deal. You’ll be training with Jim Weinberg, who’s got 30 years of law enforcement experience with SWAT, USERT, and Todd Friedman, retired detective lieutenant, special operations. He’s led 500 tactical entries, over 500. Scott Benito, a 25-year veteran, former lieutenant, tactical team leader. Ryan Benito, an Army combat veteran, 173rd Airborne, CQB instructor, master breacher. Andy Tkach, retired captain, firearm instructor, city SRT team member, instructor, police academy instructor, and municipal counterterrorism coordinator. Evan Nappen 28:40 This is the kind of quality training you will receive from WeShoot in their Civilian Shoot House Training. These are instructors who have done it in real life, and they will teach you how to do it right. Listen, folks, the bottom line is this. Shooting is one skill; moving safely through your home is another. If you’re serious about protecting what matters, this is your next step. Keep in mind, spots are limited. Secure yours now. Go to weshootusa.com. Check out their fantastic website. It’s the greatest range. Teddy and I shoot there. We love it. Wwe get our trainings, where we get our certifications, and you can too. Whether you’re a beginner or advanced, WeShoot is a place for you. Conveniently located in Lakewood, right off the Parkway. Easy to get to, and a great resource. Take advantage of this resource at WeShootUSA.com. That’s the range you need to go to in New Jersey. Evan Nappen 29:49 Let me also tell you about New Jersey Gun Law. That’s my book. The Bible of New Jersey Gun Law. Everybody needs a copy. Get your copy at EvanNappen.com. It is a question and answer goldmine to fill you in and make it so you don’t become a GOFU. If you want to avoid that, you need the book. That’ll help you do it. Hey Teddy, what do you have for us in Press Checks? Teddy Nappen 30:17 Well, as you know, Press Checks are always free. We always like to check out our friends at AmmoLand, and they point out something that’s again very scary. If you’ve seen the news, all the big talk is about Flock Cameras. (https://www.ammoland.com/2026/07/flocks-flying-cameras-how-300-million-drone-deal-turns-america-into-an-always-on-surveillance-grid/) Typically, there’s a bill aiming to stop. Evan Nappen 30:37 What is a “Flock Camera”, Teddy? What is it? Page – 8 – of 12 Teddy Nappen 30:42 It is basically a highly advanced surveillance system that tracks, uses facial recognition, biometric identifications, and any other . It uses high level technology of capturing, analyzing, retaining. Evan Nappen 31:00 So, what are these cameras that are put all over the place? Teddy Nappen 31:03 So, they’re looking to. Right now the network has surpassed 100,000 cameras. They are operating more than 500,000. Evan Nappen 31:10 One hundred thousand cameras doing facial recognition, tracking, surveillance. Is this like Big Brother happening? Teddy Nappen 31:18 It is. And unfortunately, the Big Brother is very retarded. There have been many issues, including the fact that they’ve had the network be exposed, where you can get live feeds of the flock cameras. It’s amazing what you can find at a bunch of cameras pointed at, oh, you know, schools, playgrounds. That’s not going to be abused, and also it makes mistakes and false. Evan Nappen 31:44 And people are hacking into them, aren’t they? Teddy Nappen 31:46 Repeatedly, yes. And they’ve had. Evan Nappen 31:48 Well, wait a minute. If you’re not doing anything wrong, what do you have to worry about? Teddy Nappen 31:53 Well, it was pointed out in the article that this is important for the Second Amendment because it’s tracking license plates where it’s logging in, arriving and departing gun stores and gun shows and shooting ranges. Evan Nappen 32:08 Oh, New Jersey would never do that. Oh wait, they did. They did it at gun shows, even in out-of-state gun shows. Oh my. Teddy Nappen 32:16 Correct. Page – 9 – of 12 Evan Nappen 32:16 Oh my. And that’s without the aid of Flock Cameras. Teddy Nappen 32:20 Correct. And apply that now to not only building profiles where they’re going to determine oh this person’s a gun owner. So that obviously means they’re going to make the calculations think you’re carrying, and they’re going to wait until a moment when you’re in a “sensitive place” and try to bust you then. Doing this data tracking. Evan Nappen 32:41 Well, you’re not supposed to be in a “sensitive place”, Teddy. Teddy Nappen 32:44 Yeah, I know. It’s almost like you know things happen. Evan Nappen 32:46 And not only that, they use Wi-Fi to determine if you have a gun. Teddy Nappen 32:51 Correct. And then marry this with AI with a new thing called Signal Trace. It comes by the Leonardo USA Cybersecurity Company. So, this company, they use the Signal Trace. It’s a software system for identifying groups of consumers using multiples of the electronic devices. So, say that you have a smartwatch and a phone, or even your car, and all of that is accessible through the Signal Trace, where they develop large-scale profiles of individuals that they are tracking on these cameras. Now they understand. Oh, this person’s a gun owner. This person carries. This person’s going to have a whatever carry package. Evan Nappen 33:37 Wait a minute. I’ve got a question. I see, but are there any like countries that might be like authoritarian and really mean to their people that might be using technology like this? There isn’t any countries doing that now, is there? Teddy Nappen 33:54 China, Russia. Evan Nappen 33:56 China and Russia. Teddy Nappen 33:57 UK. Evan Nappen 33:58 I see, and the UK, of course, of course. Page – 10 – of 12 Teddy Nappen 34:03 These are various nations for that they’re going to abuse it. And by the way, they’ve come out and said they’re not talking about combining the two systems of Signal Trace. There’s no official contract, but let’s be real. The fact remains AI. Evan Nappen 34:19 Anything Government can abuse, they will abuse. That’s an iron law of Government abuse. Who’s kidding who? And by the way, if you’re not doing anything wrong, you’re not doing anything wrong till somebody decides that what you’re doing is wrong, and now it’s wrong in their book. Teddy Nappen 34:36 I’ll give you a one example. Well, they bought Aerodome, which is a drone package. So, now it’s going to be a mobile Flock Camera, calling it the Alpha. Evan Nappen 34:51 Oh, wow! Everywhere! Flying overhead. Anywhere, everywhere, constant surveillance. That’s just lovely, lovely. Teddy Nappen 35:02 Yes. Evan Nappen 35:02 Who wants to live like that? Teddy Nappen 35:05 Yes. So, Big Brother is out there, and I’m pretty sure there are a few videos on how to do drone hunting. So that’s going to be fun. Yeah. You know, when Amazon was doing that, it was skeet shooting with prizes. Evan Nappen 35:20 Ha, ha! Well, you know, there’s a federal bill I understand to try to ban these. Teddy Nappen 35:27 Correct. It’s the Protection Against Mass Surveillance Act (H.R. 980). (https://www.ammoland.com/2026/07/burchett-bill-flock-cameras-gun-owners/) Evan Nappen 35:33 Well, damn, we need that bill. Teddy Nappen 35:35 Yeah, no, no kidding. Evan Nappen 35:37 It’ll be a federal prohibition on this nonsense? Page – 11 – of 12 Teddy Nappen 35:40 All federal agencies will be prohibited from using automated surveillance system to identify, track, or record individuals. Evan Nappen 35:46 Oh, I’m sure the state of New Jersey will happily do it, though. It sounds right up their line. Teddy Nappen 35:52 Yeah. Evan Nappen 35:53 But at least if we get the feds to maybe even make it preemptive. It should be a federal law that preempts the area, so that’s nationwide and preemptive. So, you kill it for the whole country. Teddy Nappen 36:06 Yeah, and this is where. Again, this is the marrying of what will come because we can have all these fights and win and get all the loopholes, but this combined with AI of what they’re going to do, they will just track, and they know how many guns without even having to do the right process. Evan Nappen 36:24 It’s scary. It’s scary stuff. Teddy Nappen 36:26 They won’t even need to do the paperwork even. It’ll just have an AI. Evan Nappen 36:29 You know, technology is advancing so fast with all this. You’re combining AI and drones and Flock cameras and this targeting ability. I mean, you know, we’re not too far from RoboCop. And that also includes actual robots coming our way. Then you combine robots with Flock and drone and AI, and you see we’re entering into a sci-fi horror show here. Teddy Nappen 37:03 Yeah. Evan Nappen 37:04 They better get the federal laws on this stuff, man. It’s spooky. It’s scary. It is not how I grew up. I’ll tell you that. It’s bad news. Bad news. Evan Nappen 37:17 Well, I want to tell you about this week’s GOFU, which is of course the Gun Owner Fuck Up. It’s important. We always study GOFUs. You don’t want to become a GOFU. GOFUs are expensive lessons that others have learned that you get to learn for free, so you don’t repeat them. And let me tell you, these are actual cases, clients and real scenarios. I’ll tell you something I’ve seen a lot of lately. Page – 12 – of 12 Folks that are doing their own expungements. If you have a record that needs to be cleared, I absolutely do not advise doing it yourself. You need a professional to get your expungement done right. There’s a lot of nuances to getting expungements done right, and when they are done wrong, it is a nightmare. It is a nightmare to fix it, and it creates escalating problems. Evan Nappen 38:11 Let me give you an example. You get an expungement, and you don’t clear all your records. You think you have. Next thing you know, you’re jammed up on your gun application for lying on the form. You’re looking at five years in State Prison for lying on the form because you wrote “no” when you should have wrote “yes”. You thought you were expunged and you weren’t. You get an expungement. You actually get everything cleared, but you didn’t realize that you had to wait for the State Police to also scrub the record. No one told you that. You thought it got done, but the database comes up that you have a record. You’ve said “no”. Now the entire system comes down on you for lying. License denial, gun forfeiture, revocation. You’ve got to fight it all off. Again, giant problem. Evan Nappen 39:03 Even if you get the expungement order, you don’t realize the record hasn’t been scrubbed. Your local issuing authority recognizes the expungement, and grants you the license or permit. You then go to the dealer to buy, but get denied on the NICS check because the database still has it in it. Now the feds are on your ass, and the entire escalation comes down on you for that. We see these scenarios over and over again. If you or anybody you know needs an expungement, get it done professionally. There’s too many pitfalls, problems, and nuances in doing it properly and correctly. Believe me, we see that downside. Don’t be a GOFU. Evan Nappen 39:57 This is Evan Nappen and Teddy Nappen reminding you that gun laws don’t protect honest citizens from criminals. They protect criminals from honest citizens. Speaker 3 40:08 GunLawyer is a Counterthink Media production. The music used in this broadcast was managed by Cosmo Music, New York, New York. Reach us by emailing [email protected]. The information and opinions in this broadcast do not constitute legal advice. Consult a licensed attorney in your state. Downloadable PDF TranscriptGun Lawyer S5 E301_Transcript About The HostEvan Nappen, Esq.Known as “America’s Gun Lawyer,” Evan Nappen is above all a tireless defender of justice. Author of eight bestselling books and countless articles on firearms, knives, and weapons history and the law, a certified Firearms Instructor, and avid weapons collector and historian with a vast collection that spans almost five decades — it’s no wonder he’s become the trusted, go-to expert for local, industry and national media outlets. Regularly called on by radio, television and online news media for his commentary and expertise on breaking news Evan has appeared countless shows including Fox News – Judge Jeanine, CNN – Lou Dobbs, Court TV, Real Talk on WOR, It’s Your Call with Lyn Doyle, Tom Gresham’s Gun Talk, and Cam & Company/NRA News. As a creative arts consultant, he also lends his weapons law and historical expertise to an elite, discerning cadre of movie and television producers and directors, and novelists. He also provides expert testimony and consultations for defense attorneys across America. Email Evan Your Comments and Questions  [email protected] Join Evan’s InnerCircleHere’s your chance to join an elite group of the Savviest gun and knife owners in America.  Membership is totally FREE and Strictly CONFIDENTIAL.  Just enter your email to start receiving insider news, tips, and other valuable membership benefits.   Email (required) *First Name *Select list(s) to subscribe toInnerCircle Membership Yes, I would like to receive emails from Gun Lawyer Podcast. (You can unsubscribe anytime)Constant Contact Use. Please leave this field blank.var ajaxurl = "https://gun.lawyer/wp-admin/admin-ajax.php";

  Episode 300- Do Not Engage in “Maritime Salvage” Just Yet.  Also Available OnSearchable Podcast Transcript Gun Lawyer — Episode Transcript Page – 1 – of 11 Gun Lawyer — Episode 300 Transcript SUMMARY KEYWORDS New Jersey gun ban, Third Circuit Court, Second Amendment, Judge Friedman, assault firearms, large capacity magazines, Supreme Court decision, July 31 date, mandate, stay of implementation, common use, federal gun laws, interstate commerce, carry permit, socialism. SPEAKERS Teddy Nappen, Speaker 2, Evan Nappen Evan Nappen 00:18 I’m Evan Nappen. Teddy Nappen 00:20 And I’m Teddy Nappen. Evan Nappen 00:23 And this is Gun Lawyer. I need to give everyone a warning. Do NOT engage in maritime salvage from boating accidents until given the all clear. Teddy Nappen 00:39 You might find a few bodies in Jersey. Evan Nappen 00:41 Well, the reason for this is, of course, we’re all extremely excited about the Third Circuit Court of Appeals en banc decision killing and pronouncing dead the New Jersey 36-year-old ban on so-called “assault firearms” and so-called “large capacity magazines”. (https://www2.ca3.uscourts.gov/opinarch/242415p.pdf) I mean, we’ve known it’s a violation of the Second Amendment ever since the day it passed, but finally getting to this day is wonderful. Just a great day for freedom and liberty and shoving it up New Jersey’s butt. It is great. It is great. Evan Nappen 01:26 However, in practical terms, a lot of the key questions that are out there. Are we good to go? Can we buy these guns? Can we buy these mags? What’s the story? What’s the deal? I’m going to explain to you where we’re at with that, and that’s the important thing that I know a lot of you want to know. At the moment, we’ve got to just let the dust settle here because there’s certain formalities and deadlines and procedures that can happen. Yes, we have the win. We have the win. It’s a fantastic win. It’s a decision which was 10 – 5. It was brilliant. We absolutely crushed it. Page – 2 – of 11 Page – 3 – of 11 Evan Nappen 02:07 The decision was written by Judge Freeman, who, by the way, the judge who wrote this magnificent decision was a Biden appointee, and the first female judge of color. That’s right, a woman of color. The first on the Appellate Court and a Biden appointee – who is giving us this fantastic Second Amendment decision, which is restoring freedom and helping to stop oppression of our Second Amendment rights. So, you know, this is important because it’s how it should be. Those that believe in rights, whatever you might think of the bat might be their politics. It’s everybody’s Second Amendment. It’s everybody’s right. And if you’re going to follow the Constitution and you’re going to be a judge that follows the Constitution and does not goes for politics, then this is the right thing to do. So, I take my hat off to Judge Freeman. It is a great decision. Extraordinarily thorough. Evan Nappen 03:27 I understand her background was that in being a public defender as well, and I’m sure that she saw what these laws do to good people and how unfair and unbelievably stupid they are. We now see the results of all the incredible hard work that’s been done over years that got us to this point. So, we’re all just jumping for joy, and it’s really making clear that the so-called assault weapon, assault firearm bans, even across the country, are on their deathbed or are being killed and dying. Even with the U.S. Supreme Court having taken the Viramonti and Grant cases now. We’re going to get a federal Supreme Court decision that’ll come out in June 2027. This New Jersey Appeals Court decision is, of course, going to I’m sure come into play in their decision making there, and it is a great day for us for sure. Evan Nappen 04:37 However, how does it work now that we have that decision? How will it work in practical terms? This is where some patience is necessary. Some important patience is called for. And that’s because you may have heard, and if not, I’m going to mention to you, that there was an email that was sent out to dealers from the State Police Firearms Unit. It went out and it said that that essentially July 31st, July 30-first, they’re going to the this will become effective, meaning the court case effective. It was kind of weirdly written with this date, and it seemed to indicate that July 30-first, everything was going to be free flowing, and we were going to be good to go. But it wasn’t really. It basically put everyone thinking. Okay, July 31 is some kind of key date, and that’s when we’re going to know. Why would they even pick that? Like, what is going on? So let me explain that date and what’s really happening. As a matter of fact, our good friend, John Petrolino, at Bearing Arms, recently had an article that says “NJ AG Backtracks on Date of Gun and Magazine Ban’s Demise”. (https://bearingarms.com/john-petrolino/2026/07/23/nj-ag-backtracks-on-date-gun-magazine-ban-demise-n1233262) Evan Nappen 06:10 The backtracking is as follows. This is what’s going on. That July 31 date, which Bearing Arms and Petrolino got the word from Davenport’s office. Davenport is the Attorney General that is saying. “We have until July 31, 2026 to petition the court for rehearing, and then seven days later on August 7, 2026 is when the decision is effective”. So, that’s where they’re coming from. Are they going to petition for a rehearing now? Just because they petition for a rehearing doesn’t mean that a rehearing is going to get granted, and I frankly think it’s unlikely that it’s going to get granted. Page – 4 – of 11 Evan Nappen 07:08 Now, in addition to this mix, is what’s called the mandate. A good friend and colleague, who was the lead counsel and fought hard on this very case, Dan Schmutter, a great Second Amendment attorney, was speaking to John (Petrolino) and also explained that there’s this mandate. Essentially, what he said is, “The mandate is the actual order . . .” That’s the direction to the lower court to implement the ruling, and that mandate is basically an August 10t date. So, August 10 is going to be a critical date in understanding the practical aspects of when and if these firearms and magazines will again be bought, sold, and possessed in New Jersey. And that’s why we’re putting advice out about not doing any maritime salvage for any boating accidents on recovery until we have an understanding of where we’re at here. Evan Nappen 08:32 Now, there may even be a stay granted, a stay of the implementation of the mandate. That would mean we’d be in a holding pattern until that stay gets lifted. This might, in fact, happen, and then that will ride until we get the (U.S.) Supreme Court rendering its decision. New Jersey also might try to go for (U.S.) Supreme Court review, what we call certiorari, and that may end up bringing it into or making it part of or put on hold with the Supreme Court case pending in Viramontes and Grant. This is all out there in the mix. Evan Nappen 09:15 So, the number one takeaway from all this is – Don’t do anything yet. We have all the reason to be extremely happy, to be joyous, to realize that all our hard work is paying off. But at the moment, don’t take any steps yet, so that you don’t end up in a giant GOFU. And doing something now is the GOFU. That’s this week’s GOFU. This week’s GOFU, even though we normally do it at the end of the show, let me just tell you right now, the GOFU is that. Do NOT do anything different right now. Don’t buy or order magazines. Don’t possess any of the firearms that may fall under the current ban. You may be seeing things online where people are claiming that they’re buying and selling and doing. I wouldn’t be doing that right now. Even though I’m confident in our victory, it still isn’t a done deal. The old “wait till the fat lady sings” deal. Well, it applies here. There’s still the risk. And during that time period, right now, before we have the definitive legal standing, so we can say you have the green light. We’re all good. You’re taking a risk that you don’t want to take. So that is the point. Teddy Nappen 10:48 One of the things in reading the case, Dad, just kind of going through, they outline the full breakdown of using Bruen of how they essentially destroy it with the test, the two-part test. The Second Amendment plain text covers the individual’s conduct, and then clicks to the next one. And also says it must demonstrate the regulations consist of nation’s historical tradition of firearm regulation. They show the combination of this with Wolford as well. Wolford goes into the three subsidiaries where applies, what is people, all members of political community, and then goes into arms. Arms is the game because that was the whole crux was the issue of common use. That was the entire thing that the Left have been trying, the dangerous and unusual. It was clearly outlined in the opinion talking about the idea of common use, both with the AR-15s and assault firearms, but with mags as well. They even highlight that where the I almost read like Scalia, where he used to you know. If you ever read his opinions, he always joked and made like little snide remarks. It was very funny. But with the 24 million AR-15s, this Page – 5 – of 11 is right out of the case, 24 million AR-15s and similar sporting rifles, the classification that can be determined are in common use, lawful purposes, typically common standard. With a 20 to 30-round mag, up to 100 million 30-round mags in the United States, magazines are in circulation. That sets the degree of common use. Evan Nappen 12:38 Let me tell you why that’s so important. Because once common use, you have that, and it actually has a reverse burden from this case. Common use is shown. It’s done. It’s there. We, as those challenging the laws, that burden isn’t on us, and it makes it now so that the State has to demonstrate the Bruen test. So, this is very significant because of how it addresses common use. And, of course, these semi-automatic firearms and their magazines are, it’s undisputable. It’s indisputable that they’re in common use. There’s more AR-15s than there are Ford F-150s out there. So, this is great. And you know the gun rights oppressors realize that their days are numbered, don’t you think, Teddy? Don’t you think they realize that? Teddy Nappen 13:55 Well, not only that, they’re putting out newsletters crying about it. I mean, cut to right now, The Trace. Literally, they just admitted defeat right from The Trace. “New Jersey Just Lost Its Assault Weapon Ban. Here’s Why That Matters for the Rest of the Country.” (https://www.thetrace.org/2026/07/state-assault-weapons-ban-new-jersey/) They admit it. In Delaware. The challenges in Chicago. All the different ones that are currently in play to take out the assault weapon bans. They even go into that it’s been part of. It’s been, they’ve been a synonym, the assault weapons and the gun control debate. Oh, really? It just shows the outlandishness of the debate, really. Evan Nappen 14:39 Yeah. Well, they know it, and this issue for them has been such a magnificent fundraising, pearl clutching, issue for them, and it is going to be bye bye. Across the board on gun laws challenges, they are losing, losing, losing, losing. Teddy Nappen 15:07 The one thing I will say, and I always like reading the dissent. This is the mindset of the Left of how they, and pulling right from the dissent here where they go into it. The rights secured by our founders in the Second Amendment is not unlimited. They always cite that to Heller. It has never been understood that the guarantee of a right to keep and bear arms, to carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever, or for whatever purpose. Instead, the Second Amendment allows states to ban certain types of firearms. I don’t remember that in the Second Amendment. I don’t remember those words. Evan Nappen 15:50 Well, here’s a funny little thought that occurred to me about this. Once the dust settles, and ARs and mags and semi-auto rifles and all the, you know, intrinsically evil guns that the oppressors hate. Once they’re all good to go in New Jersey, the definition of assault firearm. That term, assault firearm. That definition is still found in New Jersey law. It’s just that the ban is found to be unconstitutional. The ban, right? The prohibition. But the definition of that term is still in law. That’s found under firearm definitions. It’s found there. The ban itself is found in a different section. That’s under N.J.S. 2C:58-5.(f). It’s a Page – 6 – of 11 different section. That’s where it’s banned. It’s made a crime of the second degree to possess any of these guns without a permit to carry an assault firearm, or it having been registered or rendered inoperable. Right there in the statute. If you don’t have any of those exceptions, then you are a violator. If you violate it, if you’re convicted, you’re looking at up to 10 years in State Prison, with a minimum mandatory three and a half years. It’s draconian and insane. Evan Nappen 17:28 So, the law, the law itself, that is the ban. That’s the 39-5 law. That’s where the ban is. The definition is in 39-1. However. However, what’s very interesting is New Jersey has, under 58-5. That’s N.J.S. 2C:58-5. They have the license to carry and possess an assault firearm. Now that license to carry an assault firearm mandated two things in order to get it. One is that you first have a permit to carry a handgun, and of course, when that law was put in place, you know, there were less than 600 citizens that even had permits to carry a handgun. Now, there’s 100,000 approximately or more that have a permit to carry a handgun. So, that one has already been met. Evan Nappen 18:33 Then the other thing you had to show was that somehow it was in the public interest for you to have this. However, that standard, those standards, even the standard for carry of justifiable need, the standards have been eviscerated by Bruen. You can’t have those standards. You can’t have those standards on a carry. So, what is left in place, my friends, is an assault firearm carry license. Let that sink in. So, in other words, not only by the definition that still exists are these guns there as a list, but New Jersey has a carry permit waiting for you to obtain, so that you can carry those guns. They can no longer ban them, but they have a license to carry them that you can get. And not only will you be able to get it, you’ll be able to get it and have the guns. Because you can’t ban the guns. So, now, their carry permit that they put in to somehow work as an impossible to get exemption can now be turned against them, and can be used so that we can even get licenses to carry the list of guns that they so radically expanded to the features of the ’97 guidelines and anything substantially identical in the list of 67 guns, etc. So, their laws are going to come back, as they are, and bite them in the ass, as it should be. Keep that in mind. Teddy Nappen 20:21 It’ll be really, it would be really funny, Dad. If we somehow could interview Josh Sugarman. Just to ask him, like his literally the thing, the term that he used is now going to codify as the de facto defense to allow people to have and possess the firearms. Evan Nappen 20:39 And not just possess, but to be able to carry. Because New Jersey has a so-called assault firearm carry license. The definition of assault firearm is one statute, and the carry license is another. What the decision is invalidating is the ban, is the ban, and New Jersey has a vehicle in place already in law to apply to carry them. So, there you go. Another little tidbit to consider. Evan Nappen 21:13 And I’ll tell you something else, Teddy. I have a really important case to talk about that may even be more significant, if you can believe it. More significant than this entire battle over assault firearms. Page – 7 – of 11 Because this issue may completely wipe out the key foundation of federal gun laws. I’m gonna tell you about it in a moment. But first I want to tell you about our good friends at WeShoot. WeShoot is an indoor range in Lakewood. It’s where Teddy and I both shoot. Where we get our certifications, where we get our training, and where we love to enjoy our range time. Now WeShoot, as many of you know, has a fantastic pro shop. There are such a great bunch of folks, and they have many different programs, training, and offerings. Evan Nappen 22:12 One of the things they’re offering right now that I want to talk about, that I think is really, really great is they’re offering New Jersey carry certification, CCARE, but specifically they’re offering a course for seniors. For seniors. They have a very welcoming, senior-friendly program designed to make the process simple, comfortable, and easy to understand. With WeShoot’s extremely experienced instructors, they’re able to provide a safe and supportive and a pressure-free environment where you can build your confidence, improve your skills, and gain the knowledge necessary so you can carry responsibly. This course is really a great idea, and it is something that if you are a senior and you are looking to be able to protect yourself, because that is our right, and of course, as a senior, you know you’re not as physically capable as you used to be. Evan Nappen 23:30 This course has basic firearm safety as a component. There’s safe handling and loading, unloading, and storage techniques. They do easy to understand instruction in use of force, how to do holster safely, safety with holsters, and how to properly draw. Then you do the live fire qualification. All this is step-by-step guidance, including through the New Jersey permit application process. So, this is a great service that is being offered by WeShoot. If you or anyone you know is a senior and they want to be able to get their permit to carry, here’s a great opportunity to be introduced and learn properly, correctly, and get the credentials that you need to do it from We Shoot. Check out weshootusa.com. Their beautiful website with fantastic photography. And don’t miss the WeShoot girls when you go on their website. You’ll love it. WeShoot is the place. They’re right there, conveniently located in central Jersey. Conveniently, right off the Parkway there. Check it out. Evan Nappen 24:49 Let me also mention my book, New Jersey Gun Law. Make sure you have your copy of New Jersey Gun Law. It is the Bible of Jersey Gun Law. It’s over 500 pages, 120 topics, all question and answer. It will guide you through the insane matrix of New Jersey gun laws, and it is something that I’m looking forward to seeing be made smaller, being made a smaller volume. That’d be nice as we keep chopping away the gun laws. But New Jersey still has many of these laws to go, and you need to make sure that you don’t become a GOFU. So, go to evannappen.com, evannappen.com, and get your book today. Evan Nappen 25:37 Now, Teddy, there is a really important development taking place in the Fifth Circuit, and it’s all because of Saint Thomas. That is what we call Justice (Clarence) Thomas, one of the greatest judges on the Supreme Court, of course. He, interestingly, laid out a challenge. He laid out a challenge in the recent Supreme Court decision in (United States v.) Hemani. In Hemani, Justice Thomas said, “The Commerce Clause does not authorize Congress to ‘regulate or ban possession of any item that has Page – 8 – of 11 ever been offered for sale or crossed state lines'”. Then Thomas wrote. “Otherwise, federal commerce authority becomes “a general police power of the sort retained by the States.” Evan Nappen 26:58 Now that is a fascinating gauntlet thrown down by Judge Thomas, and it has now been picked up by the Fifth Circuit. And a great article on this by Duncan Johnson from Ammoland. The article is: “Fifth Circuit Takes Justice Thomas Up on Challenge to Federal Gun-Control Power”. (https://www.ammoland.com/2026/07/fifth-circuit-squire-922g-federal-gun-ban/?utm_source=Ammoland+Subscribers&utm_campaign=1fc1371d30-RSS_EMAIL_CAMPAIGN&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_6f6fac3eaa-1fc1371d30-21268623) And yes, it does. Evan Nappen 27:22 Because what Thomas is doing there is going at the federal power of interstate commerce. Now, let me tell you, folks. There’s only certain powers that the federal government has, and all the other powers out there are reserved to the states. So, what are the powers of the federal government? Well, there’s three primary powers that the federal governments have. And if the laws are not founded within those powers, if the powers aren’t there, then there’s no jurisdiction for the law that the Government has passed. So, the key federal powers are the power of taxation. That’s one power. The military power. And the power of interstate commerce. Those are the powers in the Constitution given to the federal Government. All the other powers go to the states. Evan Nappen 28:24 So, you see that every federal law, every federal law, has to be based on one of those three powers. Otherwise, there’s no jurisdiction for the law. So, originally, way back, the key power that was used by the federal government were two: military and the power of taxation. And you see, the power of taxation that was the first power used to pass a national gun control law, the National Firearms Act of 1934. The NFA is based on the power of taxation. That’s why you get a tax stamp. That’s why ATF and all were originally part of Treasury. It’s all based on the Government’s power of taxation. And with the Big Beautiful Bill, the tax was made zero. So, now, in the big beautiful lawsuit, the argument is: if you’re not collecting a tax, then your jurisdiction for this, your power of taxation, doesn’t exist anymore. The law is no longer valid because it’s no longer a tax, and therefore no jurisdiction. Evan Nappen 29:44 Well, that third power, interstate commerce, that’s where you see the greatest amount of federal government abuse and overreach that ever existed. You can trace that back to the Wickard versus Filburn case. (https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/317/111/) This case had to do with a farmer growing his own food during FDR’s administration. The farmer was growing his own food for himself and for his own livestock. He didn’t sell a grain of it anywhere. And the government said, “You can’t do that. We regulate what farmers can and can’t grow.” And the farmer said, “Hey, man, this is my farm. It’s for me. It’s not for anyone else. I have a right to do it. And the court said, “Oh, well, the fact that you grow your own and don’t sell it or distribute it affects interstate commerce. Affects it. And man, that opened the door. Because then anything that affects interstate commerce, anything that has traveled in interstate commerce, anything. Broad, broad, broad. This explosion in federal power. Page – 9 – of 11 Evan Nappen 31:00 Thomas, obviously and correctly, sees that this is nuts, and wants to pull it back. And now we have a case in the Fifth Circuit, “United States versus Squire”. Again, en banc, full court, where there was a total remand back, in which the consideration is now going to be a challenge as to whether interstate commerce, whether that power, can affect simply, as in Squire’s case, which involved a felon. A convicted felon, a bad guy. Someone who, you know, is not a nice person, as our president would say. Not a nice person. However, the gun that was found in, I think it was Louisiana, the gun that was found at this guy’s place was not used in a crime. Was not used in a murder. You know, was not the element was not evidence of any offense of that. Evan Nappen 32:14 But he was charged with being a felon in possession of a firearm. The question is, is a gun that merely at some point had traveled through interstate commerce, but was no longer, you know, in interstate commerce at all. It was no longer. Just in this guy’s place, sitting in a state in in Louisiana. Does the federal government’s power of interstate commerce still apply to that, so that they can enforce a federal gun law stopping felons from possessing a gun, or is that an overreach? And this case, my friends, has the potential to remove the very foundation of federal gun laws based on interstate commerce. It is extremely, extremely important. Even the dissent recognizes that this is the case. As a matter of fact, the dissent in the Squire’s case said the court has “welcomed the possibility of finding that Congress’s Commerce Clause authority cannot support 922(g).” That’s the felon in possession prohibition. “Such a decision”, he (Judge Stephen Higginson) said, “would have massive import for federal law.” That’s right. You’re damn right it will. You’re damn right it will. And that’s what they’re afraid of. This is why the Squire case can be absolutely game-changing like no other. So, we will keep a close eye on that. Teddy Nappen 34:14 I would kind of combine that with just, from the political landscape where you see. I don’t know if you saw the Democrat Socialists. They put out that stupid manifesto where they were talking about eliminating the Senate, expanding Congress. They appoint the president. You don’t elect the president. They appoint and just abolishing our system. Evan Nappen 34:37 Oh yeah, they’re basically turning us into a dictatorship, a communist dictatorship. Teddy Nappen 34:44 I feel like that would be the ultimate check on their power. If we could really, really, truly curtail the commerce clause to not allow that much power. Evan Nappen 34:56 Oh yeah, we need to. Yeah, this is all about pulling back the federal government in its overreach. And yet something like national reciprocity, where we’re dealing with a Constitutional right and actually traveling interstate. Well, now we do have interstate commerce going on. We have crossing state lines. We have something that is so plainly a federal issue that falls under it. Whereas, when you start making an inanimate object that at some point just crossed the state line and ends up in somebody’s home. Page – 10 – of 11 They’re not traveling with it. They’re not moving with it. They’re just saying, “Hey, you know, even though it was purchased or acquired in Louisiana, but at some point it had to get to a dealer, you know, and made it to the. I mean, this is so far down the line of having any connection to it. Evan Nappen 35:55 And as Thomas points out, it basically removes the state police power, which is a power that should be reserved to the state. So, this is going to be a fascinating argument to follow, and the threat of communism through the Democrat Socialists. I mean, you know, look at what we’re looking at today, Teddy. When was the last time we saw that, you know, Democrat Socialists? You know, they want national socialism, and they combine it with Jew hate. Gee, those folks used to walk funny. I think, right? Remember them? That’s what they’re basically mirroring right now in America. Teddy Nappen 35:55 Well, it goes back to, Dad, you gotta look at the two biggest propagandist industries. You had higher education, which you know that’s, thank God Donald Trump cracked down on that hard. Where now they’re no longer be going to give out loans to. So you have to get a bat. You can get a bachelor degree in feminist basket weaving, and that’ll cut out a lot. Evan Nappen 35:55 Right, that’s a great move, too. You’re right. Teddy Nappen 35:58 And number two is Hollywood and entertainment, where they also push the socialist movement. That I think, particularly with AI and other and independent projects, are rising above and breaking the stranglehold of Hollywood. At the point now, they’re trying to fund Jersey, where Netflix is building, and you got Paramount and the others are funding it. Trying to turn into the New East Hollywood. But the main thing is McCarthy wasn’t wrong. He went overzealous, yes, but just the levels of it. There were communists in our in the in our works of the government, and here is the fruits of their labor. Evan Nappen 35:58 Well, not only that, you know, during McCarthy’s day, they tried to stay hidden. Now, they’re open about it. They’re open. Teddy Nappen 36:37 They’re proud of it. They’re bragging. They’re proud of it. Teddy Nappen 37:54 They’re wearing it. They’re bragging about it. And this is a complete antithesis to what America is all about, and nowhere ever has communism worked. Look, you know, when that wall came down in Germany, where do you think they wanted to go? You know, you don’t see people escaping. “Escaping” to communism. It’s the reverse. And once you get communism, once you elect it in, you end up having to shoot your way out. So, you know, I don’t think the overwhelming majority of Americans are that foolish. But here’s the problem. The majority of Democrats are because statistically they’re apparently in favor of socialism, which is just, you know, a euphemistic label for communism. Page – 11 – of 11 Teddy Nappen 38:54 Here’s the issue, though, Dad. It’s my generation, the next, where I think the number was like 58% are seen in favor of socialism. That’s that generation. So, you this time period will be fine. But the next generation, that’ll be where like it’s something. This is where we need to do heavy, heavy arms of propaganda. And look, the easiest way to dispel this argument – name me one country where socialism works. Tell me that. They immediately try to say the Nordic country, and then I say, okay. First of all, here’s a deal for you. We’ll completely deregulate oil, just like the Nordic countries. Our immigration policy is about around 3% and reduce the migrant population to about the size of any Nordic country. And then finally to end it all, make sure people have healthy, maintain themselves healthily, and actually watch what they’re actually eating and going into developing healthier habits, like a lot of the Nordic countries. Then get back to me on socialism. Other than that, none of that works. We are a heavily diverse nation. We have a lot of unhealthy issues. So, when I hear it, it’s just B.S., every single time. There is no. They move the goalposts and say there’s never been any true. It hasn’t worked yet because it’s not. It hasn’t been the right version. Evan Nappen 40:18 Yeah, right. Well, I don’t want to be part of that experiment. Thank you. Okay, no thanks. No, thank you. I’ll stick with our Founding Fathers. I’ll stick with the incredible quality of life that capitalism has given us. And there’s a reason why so many people want to come here. There’s a really good reason for it, and it ain’t communism. That’s for sure. Hey, the other thing. This. Yeah. Yeah. Go ahead. Teddy Nappen 40:43 No, I was gonna say. Here’s the other one. Name me once did communism ever allow for someone to take a loan to get a business started? Name me one faction of that, where someone who came from essentially the small folk being able to rise up and become millionaires and running their own businesses. Yeah, exactly. Evan Nappen 41:07 Maybe recently you heard, I just heard President Trump talking about it, and he summed it up pretty well. He said, “Communism is shit.” That’s exactly what the President said, and then he goes. His wife gets upset when he uses that word, and Reverend Falwell even wrote him once and said to him, you know, we’d prefer if he would try not to use profanity. And then Trump said he told him, the problem is that’s the word that perfectly describes communism. So, I guess if there’s any time to use the word, that’s the time to use the word. So, there you go. Evan Nappen 41:49 Hey, this is Evan Nappen and Teddy Nappen reminding you that gun laws don’t protect honest citizens from criminals. They protect criminals from honest citizens. Speaker 2 42:03 Gun Lawyer is a CounterThink Media production. The music used in this broadcast was managed by Cosmo Music, New York, New York. Reach us by emailing [email protected]. The information and opinions in this broadcast do not constitute legal advice. Consult a licensed attorney in your state. Downloadable PDF TranscriptGun Lawyer S5 E300_Transcript About The HostEvan Nappen, Esq.Known as “America’s Gun Lawyer,” Evan Nappen is above all a tireless defender of justice. Author of eight bestselling books and countless articles on firearms, knives, and weapons history and the law, a certified Firearms Instructor, and avid weapons collector and historian with a vast collection that spans almost five decades — it’s no wonder he’s become the trusted, go-to expert for local, industry and national media outlets. Regularly called on by radio, television and online news media for his commentary and expertise on breaking news Evan has appeared countless shows including Fox News – Judge Jeanine, CNN – Lou Dobbs, Court TV, Real Talk on WOR, It’s Your Call with Lyn Doyle, Tom Gresham’s Gun Talk, and Cam & Company/NRA News. As a creative arts consultant, he also lends his weapons law and historical expertise to an elite, discerning cadre of movie and television producers and directors, and novelists. He also provides expert testimony and consultations for defense attorneys across America. 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  Episode 299-AG Attacks Gun Shows Also Available OnSearchable Podcast Transcript Gun Lawyer — Episode Transcript Page – 1 – of 13 Gun Lawyer — Episode 299 Transcript SUMMARY KEYWORDS Gun Lawyer, Second Amendment, Jimmy Stewart, Lee Marvin, Charles Bronson, Ghost Guns, Pennsylvania gun show, Civil Complaint, New Jersey gun laws, Second Amendment Section, DOJ, Gun Control, Red Flag Laws, Gun Owner Faux Pas. SPEAKERS Speaker 2, Teddy Nappen, Evan Nappen Evan Nappen 00:18 I’m Evan Nappen. Teddy Nappen 00:19 and I’m Teddy Nappen. Evan Nappen 00:21 And welcome to Gun Lawyer. So, Teddy, I think you have a very interesting news bit to tell us about, and I have some very interesting thoughts about it. Go right ahead. Teddy Nappen 00:36 Well, first I want to say, Dad, if you’re just scrolling through, I love the random trailers that just pop up. Apparently, they’re making a Jimmy Stewart biopic. Evan Nappen 00:48 Well, Jimmy Stewart was a great man. Teddy Nappen 00:50 But here’s the deal. They’re focusing on his military career, where he was a combat pilot. Evan Nappen 00:56 He was a hero. He was a bona fide hero, and he served his country tremendously. I have nothing but respect for Jimmy Stewart. Teddy Nappen 01:12 I was pulling it up. He flew 20 missions in Europe, and he reached the rank of Colonel. He was a World War Two pilot commander, combat pilot. Evan Nappen 01:22 And this was in the middle of his movie career. He left. Page – 2 – of 13 Evan Nappen 01:26 He left his movie career to fight for America. Let that sink in. I mean, do you think these selfish movie stars, self-centered, would even think of doing that? Even think of doing that today? Please. At least not the overwhelming majority. Maybe there’d be a few that are out there that actually would consider such a thing. But good grief. Talk about old Hollywood and new Hollywood. Jeez. Teddy Nappen 01:26 Yeah. Teddy Nappen 01:57 I will say. I would have. This is no dig against Jimmy Stewart because it’s one of those I would have wanted if they’re gonna do any of the actors that served. I would love for them to do Lee Marvin. His whole story. Evan Nappen 02:10 Oh, Lee Marvin was great, too. Teddy Nappen 02:13 Where he has the craziest career, too. He was a scout sniper, 21 amphibious assaults, horribly injured and shot up. Evan Nappen 02:23 Yeah, they could just do a series, like a mini series of actors who were the real deal. That played tough guys, but were actually the real deal. You know, Charles Bronson was. You had the guy, Christopher Lee. Holy crap, Christopher! Teddy Nappen 02:44 Oh yeah, Christopher Lee. He was Wiki page. Evan Nappen 02:51 I mean, Christopher Lee was advising on the movie and saying that’s not how a knife sounds when you jam it into somebody. You don’t have the sound right on that. That’s not how it goes. It’s not what the sound the person makes. It’s not the sound the knife makes. I mean, that’s some pretty detailed knowledge right there. Teddy Nappen 03:07 If you’re ever bored, just click on the random page on his bio, and it gets crazier and crazier. Like, witness the last guillotining. Evan Nappen 03:18 I know. The guy’s amazing. Yeah, and of course, there’s always Audie Murphy, of course. Teddy Nappen 03:25 Yeah, of course. Page – 3 – of 13 Evan Nappen 03:26 Audie Murphy played himself in “To Hell and Back”. Audie Murphy is amazing, and he would be like one of the last guys if you looked at him to think that he’s one of the most decorated soldiers of the war. But he was also amazing, and you know, he made lots of other movies, too. Even though he’s most famous for “To Hell and Back”, but he did a lot of westerns and other things. Teddy Nappen 03:52 I remember one of the underrated ones. I think it was like “The Duel at Silver Creek”. There’s moments where he’s actually like, he plays an anti-hero type where he’s like. Evan Nappen 04:03 Yeah, a bastard, frankly. A son of a bitch. Teddy Nappen 04:05 He plays like a. Evan Nappen 04:06 Yeah he’s good. Teddy Nappen 04:07 Yeah. Evan Nappen 04:08 Not what you think of Audie Murphy. Teddy Nappen 04:09 Right. He plays like the tough guy. It is very interesting that character but. Evan Nappen 04:14 Yeah, yeah. And then he ended up dying in a plane crash because the pilot shouldn’t have been flying apparently, and you know, it’s a shame that we lost him. But yeah, he was great, and I mean he came from really, really humble beginnings. I mean dirt poor, crazy beginnings there for him. We’ve many of the great Hollywood actors who served their country really admirably. I mean even Scotty (James Montgomery Doohan), you know, from Star Trek. He was also a defender. Teddy Nappen 04:17 What was he in? Evan Nappen 05:03 Oh, he was military. I don’t remember exactly his background, but he was in some tough situations. He was known. Teddy Nappen 05:08 Page – 4 – of 13 Well, he was miracle worker. Evan Nappen 05:10 There’s so many of those guys, and I have a hard time trying to think of any modern actor that can maybe give that credibility to. I don’t know. Can’t think of any at all. Teddy Nappen 05:24 Unfortunately, I’m drawing a heavy blank because. Oh wait, no, no, no. Adam Driver. Adam Driver. I believe he’s the guy that played Kylo Ren. He did. I believe he was in the Marines. But he was a veteran. So, but anyways, one thing I will say as we were reviewing these stories, I love how the Attorney General has their own YouTube and they were just like streaming alerts and announcements. “Attorney General Davenport Files Civil Complaint Against Pennsylvania Gun Show Owner for Endangering Public Safety” (https://www.njoag.gov/attorney-general-davenport-files-civil-complaint-against-pennsylvania-gun-show-owner-for-endangering-public-safety/) So, that was what came up with the ad for Jimmy Stewart, and then there was this. Evan Nappen 06:08 Right. Showing a pretty good contrast. So, Davenport has filed this complaint against the Pennsylvania gun show owner for “endangering public safety”. They filed because they’re abusing the civil lawsuit. You know, this is one of the anti-Second Amendment ploys of trying to litigate the Second Amendment out of existence. And so, what they’ve done here is they’ve gone after Jordan Vinroe of JSD Supply and Eagle Shows. So, if any of you have ever gone to the great Pennsylvania gun shows, you know, they’re really good. Because first of all there aren’t any gun shows of any kind, really, in New Jersey. There’s some militaria shows, but there’s no gun shows. But Pennsylvania is, if you’re in New Jersey and you want to hit a really great normal type gun show, you go to Pennsylvania. And some of the largest, best shows are put on by this promoter. Teddy Nappen 07:24 The one that comes to mind, the Bloomsburg gun show. I think that was one we had gone to. Teddy Nappen 07:29 Yeah, Eastern Gun X. Eastern Gun X. Evan Nappen 07:29 Well, they have a whole series of shows. I believe they actually do some of the largest shows in Eastern Pennsylvania. Evan Nappen 07:30 So, they do some of these 1000 table, 2000 table, these really huge shows. And what happened is they’re going after him, claiming he is intentionally and unlawfully selling to New Jersey residents kits and parts to make ghost guns. Untraceable firearms that are illegal in New Jersey. So, what is this really? This really is a pretext to go after gun shows. This isn’t really about the ghost guns. That’s just their vehicle. This is really about trying to stop gun shows. If you go after gun show promoters, this becomes the idea of civilly litigating out of, essentially out of existence. If they can do it, they’d love to Page – 5 – of 13 do it. Gun shows. So, we really have not just a violation of the Second Amendment, where what’s going on in Pennsylvania is completely lawful in Pennsylvania. Ghost guns are the pejorative term for simply a privately-made firearm. Americans have been making their own guns since before we were even officially a country. So, private firearms are not the boogeyman. But, of course, they give it the boogeyman name of “ghost guns” and then claim they’re untraceable. Evan Nappen 09:14 Well, you know what? You tell me what firearm tracing has actually done to fight crime. Virtually nothing. It’s a lie that is perpetrated to give them a vehicle to make it look like they’re doing something about crime, which isn’t it, but more so to continue the agenda of oppression of Second Amendment rights. And here it is an attack on gun shows. That’s really what’s going on here. It’s not, you know, ghost guns, most gun. It ghost guns. Come on. First of all, anyone can build a gun with or without parts that you buy at a show anywhere. You can build a gun with pipes that you buy at Home Depot. Are we going to go after Home Depot because you can make slam bang shotguns easily, as we taught in the Philippines to do? Americans did that. You can. Evan Nappen 10:20 You know, “American Guerrilla in the Philippines”, a famous book, movie, etc. What do you think they made? Slam bang shotguns. You take two pieces of pipe. One pipe fits in the other. On the end cap of the larger pipe, you have a nail with the point facing down the pipe. The other one slides in it like a trombone. You put a 12 gauge shell in there, and you slam it down. And bang, off it goes. It’s called a slam bang shotgun. Sometimes called four winds shotgun. Teddy Nappen 10:55 Didn’t you? Evan Nappen 10:58 Yeah, I mean this is, and this is even in the Frankfurt Arsenal, the famous “Black Books”. They’re very easy. Evan Nappen 11:06 So, yeah, making a gun. They make guns in jails. They can make a gun. You can make them. So, this whole thing about privately made firearms and all is just a load of crap. Now, Jersey has banned “ghost guns” in a multiple ways. They talk about “unserialized firearms”. They talk about “manufacture of firearms”. They have different laws that address each of these things. All putting it under this category. And yet, under federal law, it’s not a problem to make your own firearm. Federal law even has regulations for if dealers get a privately made firearm, how to handle it and be able to actually lawfully sell it. They need to then take certain steps. We don’t have to get into that now. But it’s not a problem under federal law. It is a New Jersey, in this case, law that they’re attempting to use as a vehicle to bring the civil action against Pennsylvania. Something jurisdictioned in Pennsylvania, by claiming, oh well, you’re unlawfully selling to New Jersey residents. Teddy Nappen 11:06 Poor man’s James Bond? Page – 6 – of 13 Evan Nappen 12:23 Well, I’ll tell you what. How about we take a look at marijuana sales in New Jersey? Do Pennsylvania residents come into New Jersey and ever buy marijuana? Look, marijuana is unlawful for recreational use in Pennsylvania, and it’s federally prohibited. It’s still a federal controlled, dangerous substance. So, New Jersey acts to aid and abet and facilitate one of the largest unlawful drug distributions in the country. Whereas privately made firearms are not a federal prohibition. Not a federal prohibition. Should Pennsylvania sue New Jersey because of somehow Pennsylvania residents buying weed in New Jersey being facilitated by New Jersey? I mean, this is what they’re attempting to do. And yet here, not only is it not a violation of federal law, but it is really an attack on Second Amendment rights. And let me tell you that. Go ahead., Teddy. Teddy Nappen 13:30 I will also point out in the article. This is where the little trick is. If anyone ever listens to these people, they always do this trick where they start with a false premise when making their argument. “Ghost guns are frequently recovered at crime sites in New Jersey. Recent reports suggest that the number of ghost guns recovered in crime scenes increased eightfold between 2019 and 2022 — from 55 in 2019 to 433 in 2022.” Pause right there. I wonder. What happened around that time period where it caused people to want to have their own privately-made firearms and want to maybe 3D print and make their own? I wonder what little factor would have considered that. Secondly, all right, now show me the data of the amount of firearms recovered generally in crimes, and give me the percentage breakdown. Oh, it’s probably in the minuscule amount of percentages of firearms seized in New Jersey for crimes. Huh? I wonder. So, this isn’t that much of an epidemic, but we can’t show that, obviously. We won’t show that data. They just list off guns seized. Evan Nappen 14:43 Teddy, we are in a new day and age because of President Trump. And one of the things that President Trump did is actually create, through the Justice Department. They actually created in the Civil Rights Division of the U.S. Justice Department, the Second Amendment Section. Now let me tell you what the Second Amendment Section of the Civil Rights Division of the Federal Government Department of Justice. Let me tell you right from their website. (https://www.justice.gov/crt/second-amendment-section) The Second, Fourth, and 14th Amendments, the Police Patterned or Practice Act, and Executive Order 14206 protecting the Second Amendment rights, secure the natural firearm rights of law-abiding citizens, and ensure that such rights to keep and bear arms will not be infringed. The mission of the Second Amendment Section is to ensure that law-abiding citizens may responsibly possess, carry, and use firearms. The Second Amendment Section will work diligently to investigate law enforcement agencies that engage in a pattern or practice of infringing on law-abiding citizens’ Second Amendment rights. As well as be proactive in searching for litigation opportunities to secure such rights. Evan Nappen 16:19 The Second Amendment Section will also seek opportunities to advance a broad interpretation of the Second Amendment via statements of interest, motions to intervene, amicus briefs, and original lawsuits where applicable on behalf of Americans across the country. All attorneys within the Second Page – 7 – of 13 Amendment Section will advocate with zeal on behalf of the United States of America in furtherance of all objectives as tasked. And there, right at the website, at the Civil Rights Division, U.S. Department of Justice, the Second Amendment Section. You can go right online to that. We’ll have a link in the transcript. It says Section Information. Acting Chief Barry Arrington. “Report a civil rights violation.” So, listeners, if you see or hear or know of any civil rights violations on the Second Amendment, report them. Report them to the Federal Department of Justice. Evan Nappen 17:28 I think this is something that the DOJ should consider going on in New Jersey. Where you actually are seeing an effort to go after gun shows, which is our freedom of association, which is our ability. You know, if you can’t buy guns, then you’re not going to be able to possess and carry something you cannot obtain. Second, ghost guns are not a violation of federal law. Third, this is talking about interstate issues. This is New Jersey and Pennsylvania. What could be more squarely within federal jurisdiction than one state going after activities in another state because the state that is going after them has laws that infringe on the Second Amendment and trying to enforce it in another jurisdiction via this mechanism of being able to abuse civil laws. So, there is potentially a solution here. And not only just about what New Jersey is doing here, but what New Jersey does across the board in so many ways of oppressing our Second Amendment rights. Evan Nappen 18:58 Now, this Second Amendment Section has done a number of things already. They sued California to halt the Glock ban. They sued Virginia over their unconstitutional weapons ban, assault firearm so-called ban. They sued them. They opened an investigation, by the way, into Philadelphia Police Department’s unconstitutional permit revocation process. They’ve sued Colorado for their ban on so-called assault firearms and magazines. They sued the District of Columbia for their ban, and they’ve gone after the Virgin Islands Police Department for unconstitutional practices in effective denials of permits. That’s just a sampling of what the Civil Rights Division of the U.S. Justice Department is doing in the Second Amendment Section, and it’s time for New Jersey to be investigated. Because this has gone on for far too long in New Jersey. Our Second Amendment rights being trampled by New Jersey trying to do everything in its power to oppress Second Amendment rights. So, check it out, folks, and you will see that this is what happens when we say elections have consequences. Because this goes back to President Trump putting out his Executive Order, and you also have the Attorney General putting forward that they have their Second Amendment task force and setting up the Civil Rights Division. So, we can change how business is done. Evan Nappen 20:52 Because prior to this, the Government, even the federal Government, took at best a neutral position, but normally there was no infringement that was too much as far as federal enforcement. No problem. Turned the other, you know, turned away from it. Couldn’t care less. Those are no longer the days today, and this is where a wake-up call needs to come out on our Second Amendment rights. Let me tell you. Go ahead, Teddy. Yeah. Teddy Nappen 21:32 Page – 8 – of 13 Well, I was going to say. I was able to pull up Everytown’s research. (https://everytownresearch.org/report/gun-trafficking-crime-guns-new-jersey-data/) In 2023, New Jersey’s law enforcement seized 4,619 guns. So, going off of the data that the A.G. put out, that’s 9% of those firearms were “ghost guns”. Nine percent. It’s even less from those numbers. It is the level of insanity that these individuals pull. They’re just making a boogeyman out of something. That’s why. Evan Nappen 22:06 They’re the boogeyman and a pretext to try to assert their agenda. It’s really what we’re talking about here. Absolutely. Well, let me tell you about our good friends at WeShoot. WeShoot is an indoor range in Lakewood where Teddy and I both shoot. We love WeShoot, and so will you. They have the top trainers for New Jersey. They have the full array from novice to advanced. They have some just great training programs. You can get your CCARE certification there. That’s what you need in order to get your New Jersey carry. They offer CCARE courses. They also offer the ability to get non-resident permits in other states. So, if you travel, you can take care of that through WeShoot. WeShoot is a great resource. It’s a resource that we’re very lucky to have. It’s harder and harder to find places to shoot, and without places to shoot, you can’t do too much with your guns. And WeShoot is there for you. Take advantage of it. Evan Nappen 23:25 It’s a wonderful place. They’ve got a great pro shop. Great people, super nice, wonderful folks. They will bend over backwards to help you, and I’ve seen it firsthand. They’ve helped so many people to improve their skills, to learn about firearms, to learn the right way, proper way, how to be safe, how to be secure, and make sure that everything is done correctly. So that you don’t end up being a GOFU. So, check out WeShoot at weshootusa.com. That’s their website, weshootusa.com. You’ll be glad you did. Beautiful photography. They’re really first rate, and you’ll see why. They go the extra mile. Check out WeShoot at weshootusa.com. They’re conveniently located right in Lakewood, New Jersey. Easily accessible right off the Garden State Parkway. You can do it. Go over there, and you’ll say, “Wow, why didn’t I come here sooner? That’s weshootusa.com. Evan Nappen 24:44 Let me also shamelessly promote my book, New Jersey Gun Law. It is the Bible of Jersey Gun Law. You don’t want to be a GOFU. You need the book. It’s 120 topics, all question and answer. It’ll help guide you safely through the matrix of insanity called New Jersey gun laws, so that you can remain a law-abiding gun owner. That’s my purpose in writing it. You will see why it is the book used by lawyers, judges, State Police Firearms division, and beyond. If anybody who wants to know about New Jersey gun law, they always turn to New Jersey Gun Law by Evan Nappen. And if you want to get your copy, go to evannappen.com, EvanNappen.com. Order a copy, and you’ll have it within days. So, Teddy, what else do you have for us to discuss today? I’m going to toss the ball to you. Teddy Nappen 25:44 Well, as you know, Press Checks are always free. If anyone’s been watching the news or anything or seen all the push from the Left, the thing they keep trying to go back to is they’re trying to address the mail problem. That’s their actual quote from the election groups that they do. Where they’re trying to figure out how do we. Page – 9 – of 13 Evan Nappen 26:11 Is that Post Office mail or as in what is a woman, male? Teddy Nappen 26:16 You know. The white men, particularly, of the they have completely spurred off. One of the things that they’ve run into a foul, is you see this whole push where they try to reach issues, and they’ve gotten very, very quiet on the issue of firearms all of a sudden. Amazing, right? And even though you where you have like the James Talarico who’s still trying to tote gun control, but he’s trying to paint it off like, look, I’m for the Second Amendment. You know, I own a gun. All this. Evan Nappen 26:52 Oh, it’s the I’m for the Second Amendment, but. It’s always the but. Teddy Nappen 26:56 Always, but always, Evan Nappen 26:57 But we should ban guns. I’m for the Second Amendment. Teddy Nappen 27:01 But universal background checks, which will basically create a registry. Evan Nappen 27:07 But we should eliminate gun shows off the face of the planet. But we should ban any gun that’s over 12 inches long and call it an assault firearm. But ban any gun under 12 inches and call it a Saturday night special. Other than that, I’m for the Second Amendment. Teddy Nappen 27:23 Yeah, and you’ve been seeing that. Now you’ve noticed they’ve been losing a lot of ground to their “Democrat Socialists”. They’re just Marxists. If you look at the ideology of what they support, they are Marxists. Just go one to one. They are the same. They can’t dress it up any other way. So, I decided, you know what? Let’s see what’s on their page. What they actually feel about the Second Amendment. Because when it comes to Socialists now, they’ve kind of reached the they don’t know how to feel about firearms. They want to disarm the people because they believe in gun control, but they need arms for the revolution, always. So, it’s the gun owner dilemma for Socialists. Teddy Nappen 28:06 So, I go to their web page and what do I find? (https://www.dsausa.org/blog/the_second_amendment_is_a_threat_to_us_all/) This goes back to 2018, mind you. So, now they’ve gotten very quiet. “The Second Amendment is a threat to us All.” That is the opening title, and they still have it on there. This is their reaction to the Parkland shooting. So, America touts itself as being a meritocracy, and we laugh. But on firearm policy, it is truly need blind. No matter your age, race, gender, creed, or sexual orientation, your inalienable right to life is perfectly alienable to Page – 10 – of 13 keep guns pouring into public and private lives. Okay. Which is why we think the only way to guarantee that we dramatically reduce the acts of violence involving guns is removing guns from society. Pause. Logical fallacy alert, everybody! Ding, ding, ding, ding. Logical fallacy. Reverse Nirvana. If we got rid of all the guns, that would stop the crime. They always try to push that, and we have the oomph. Okay, yeah. Repeal the Second Amendment. That’s going to happen. This is from 2018. Nope, still haven’t done it. But they point to, I don’t know if you remember this guy Carl Rove? Evan Nappen 29:37 Oh yeah, Carl Rove, the pool shooter. Shooting at the pool? Yeah, yeah. After he’s anti-gun, but he uses a gun inappropriately even. Yeah, that guy, Mr. Hypocrite. Teddy Nappen 29:49 Well, they highlight his quote. The only way to guarantee that we drastically reduce acts of violence involving guns is to basically remove them from society. Well, okay then. Then they go through this whole twisted history where they point to the 1970s. NRA stopped being enthusiast group and became a defense industry lobby. Then the new blood came with the Gun Control Act of ’68, which aimed to restrict firearm ownership in response to the fears of the group. I love how they say this. The fears of the Black Panthers. Yes, that’s why the ’68 Gun Control Act was born. That was the only reason. They wanted to disarm the Black Panthers. No other reason of why they tried to push the ’68 Gun Control Act. Dad, do you remember that? What would you say from your view of what was the driver to the ’68 Gun Control Act? Evan Nappen 30:47 Oh my God! You know these people are just amazing, and as you see, they’re conflicted over their own platform. It’s crazy, Teddy. Teddy Nappen 31:02 Yeah, and well, they go even crazier. They go through this twisted history of rights. They go through Heller, basically determining you know the rights infringed, and they use Scalia’s answer. In Scalia’s admission, if we repeal the Second Amendment, private citizens could still own guns. The right to do so is granted to them by God or the English, whatever you’d like. Both Brett Stevens and Carl Rover certainly wouldn’t mind. So therefore, we’ve rewritten the Second Amendment. They wrote an amendment. They actually wrote. They wrote their example, the 28th Amendment, Dad. Here we go. The 28th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution that they pushed for. The second article, the amendment of the Constitution of the United States, is hereby repealed. Okay, that gets to that. Two – manufacturing, transportation, importation into or out of any state, territory, or possession of United States delivery therein of a pump action, semi-automatic or automatic firearms is hereby prohibited. Three – article shall be inoperative unless it shall be ratified as the amendment to the Constitution by convention of several states, as provided by the Constitution within 10 years, the date of submission here off to the state by Congress. Well, they want a con con apparently. But just going back to that, banning pump action, semi-automatic and automatic firearms, removing that from the Second Amendment, Dad. Evan Nappen 32:33 Page – 11 – of 13 Okay. Teddy Nappen 32:34 You can have your gun, but they must be manually loaded. Evan Nappen 32:36 Couple things. Number one, the Second Amendment is not our rights. It’s a guarantee of our rights. The rights to exist, whether or not we have a Second Amendment. But the Second Amendment is a guarantee against the Government of infringing on those rights. So, what they’re saying is, we want to revoke the guarantee of your rights and replace it with a lame-ass guarantee that we’re rewriting that won’t do anything except give us the opportunity to walk all over your rights. So, that’s really what they’re saying. But the really interesting thing here is this proposal to repeal the Second Amendment is all the anti-Second Amendment gun rights suppressor folks are going to have left. Evan Nappen 33:23 We are on the path with the Second Amendment having been empowered by Heller, McDonald, and Bruen. And now we have Viramontes and Grant that, in my opinion, are going to absolutely crush assault firearm semi-automatic bans across the country. They are losing ground left and right. There are over 3,000 filed legal actions challenging gun laws. They are on the run. They’re losing, and they know it. The only thing they have left is actually what they’re asking for here, and that is to repeal the Second Amendment. We will never let them repeal the guarantee of our rights, and that’s what we must insist upon. These are our rights, and they’re guaranteed. We want that guarantee enforced. And now that they see the guarantee is finally being enforced, they cannot stand it. They are losing, and they’re going to continue to lose. Teddy Nappen 34:31 I will say, I love the ending to the article where the individual. We are aware non-white and marginalized groups whose rights are routinely violated by the police may view this both as restricting and their ability to protect themselves or causing unwarranted searches and harassments for the criminal justice. We in no way support any measure that would increase the scope and scale of police violence. This provision outlined in amendment would have universal application. So, in other words, don’t worry. This affects everybody. There’s going to be no racial discrimination about enforcing these laws, Dad. Huh? Right. Cut to what was it? John Petrolino’s article where he pulled the data? Evan Nappen 35:19 Yeah. Exactly what we’re dealing with in New Jersey. Where blacks are already more than two to one discriminated against in just permit issuance. So, yeah, we know where this is. It’s just absurd. Teddy Nappen 35:31 Well, they literally go with the “trust me, bro”. It’ll be we’re not racist. We’re just gonna ruin it. We’re gonna screw it over for everybody. Evan Nappen 35:38 Page – 12 – of 13 But keep in mind, this is laughable right now, but it’s actually not. This is going to be the push that we’re going to see. It’s going to be a major push to repeal the Second Amendment. Because it’s all they have left, and that’s what we’re going to see. That and abusing the tort system in any way they can – civil actions. You know, to somehow create these abilities for trying to litigate guns out of existence. That and repealing the Second Amendment. That’s what they’re left with on their game plan. We just need to remain vigilant. Teddy Nappen 36:16 So, bear in mind. I will say, bear in mind, they still push for red flag in the other articles they’ve had. They still push for all the required measures where you have to get everything registered, and they’re still for limiting, removing ARs and anything they deem unsafe or scary. Evan Nappen 36:39 I hear you, and this is so typical. But we’re winning. That’s what’s important. We’re winning. Except when there’s GOFUs. GOFUs, as you know, are Gun Owner Fuck Ups. That’s where gun owners make big mistakes that cost them, technically, it could cost them their career, their family, their fortunes, their freedom. It’s bad news. So, you want to not be a GOFU. And what we like to do here is talk about GOFUs so that you don’t become one. You get to learn for free what others have paid dearly for. Teddy, what do you think the GOFU is this week? You know. What are we talking about? Teddy Nappen 37:26 Well, for me, the GOFUs are always about “stop talking to the police”. Evan Nappen 37:34 Oh my G-d. Stop talking to the police! Like, you know, we talk about basics. It is so basic. Shut up. You know you have a right to remain silent. Now, whether or not you have the ability to, I guess, becomes another question. But you have the right, and you need to stand on your right. You need to ask for your attorney and remain silent. You need to stand on your rights. And over and over again, we see clients that blow that and end up making their situation incredibly worse, incredibly worse. Because not only does anything you say can and will be used against you. Anything you say will be twisted against you. The safest, best route every time is standing on your rights. It’s that simple. And let me tell you, folks, if you’re ever read Miranda rights, oh my God, shut the f up! If you are read Miranda rights, sirens should be going off. Fireworks should be shooting. Flags should be waved. Shut up! Anyone who talks after Miranda, I just can’t even understand. They’re warning you. They’re telling you. Oh, you just wave your right. Oh, you’ll just talk to them. What are those silly rights they’re telling me about Evan Nappen 39:04 I’ll tell you one of the problems is – television. Television has conditioned many Americans to giving up their rights. Oh, I’ll just talk to them. I’ll just explain it. I’ll just yak away. And you know what? You end up burying yourself. Over and over and over again. I see it. I cannot believe it. If you are ever across one of those metal tables, being interrogated by police, and you’re talking, you are the world’s biggest GOFU. That should never happen. If you’ve been read Miranda, that talking across that table that should not be happening. If you let that happen, you’re a fool. You are absolutely a fool. I can’t make it any clearer. Page – 13 – of 13 Evan Nappen 39:55 It reminds me of Jan Davis. I don’t know if you know about her. (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/parachutist-plunges-to-death/) She was part of a movement to allow the ability to try to legalize base jumping at national parks. At Yosemite, she jumped off of El Capitan. Now, she was a pretty experienced jumper, and she did this as a protest. She was wearing criminal stripes outfit. You know the classic black and white stripes of the classic prison outfit, right? And it was to make a statement, of course. But it’s really a statement here because she jumped off El Capitan, El Capitan, and it was in 1999 as a protest against the ban. She was trying to make a statement that this is safe and should be allowed. She jumped, and ended up going splat. That’s right. Her parachute didn’t open. She couldn’t get it opened, unfortunately. My understanding is she had used some other equipment instead of her own. She didn’t know where the pull was on this particular one, and unfortunately, she ended up just going splat. Evan Nappen 40:19 To me, Jan Davis jumping off El Capitan there is what happens when you are read Miranda and talk. You ended up in a big splat like Jan Davis. That’s what you do. And keep in mind, she was wearing that prisoner outfit when it happened. So, folks, stand on your rights. Don’t be a good a GOFU. Don’t end up splattering yourself on the gun rights oppression and insane matrix of New Jersey gun laws. Should you ever be put in that situation – shut up! Evan Nappen 42:09 This is Evan Nappen and Teddy Nappen reminding you that gun laws don’t protect honest citizens from criminals. They protect criminals from honest citizens. Speaker 2 42:23 Gun Lawyer is a CounterThink Media production. The music used in this broadcast was managed by Cosmo Music, New York, New York. Reach us by emailing [email protected]. The information and opinions in this broadcast do not constitute legal advice. Consult a licensed attorney in your state. Downloadable PDF TranscriptGun Lawyer S5 E299_Transcript About The HostEvan Nappen, Esq.Known as “America’s Gun Lawyer,” Evan Nappen is above all a tireless defender of justice. Author of eight bestselling books and countless articles on firearms, knives, and weapons history and the law, a certified Firearms Instructor, and avid weapons collector and historian with a vast collection that spans almost five decades — it’s no wonder he’s become the trusted, go-to expert for local, industry and national media outlets. Regularly called on by radio, television and online news media for his commentary and expertise on breaking news Evan has appeared countless shows including Fox News – Judge Jeanine, CNN – Lou Dobbs, Court TV, Real Talk on WOR, It’s Your Call with Lyn Doyle, Tom Gresham’s Gun Talk, and Cam & Company/NRA News. As a creative arts consultant, he also lends his weapons law and historical expertise to an elite, discerning cadre of movie and television producers and directors, and novelists. He also provides expert testimony and consultations for defense attorneys across America. Email Evan Your Comments and Questions  [email protected] Join Evan’s InnerCircleHere’s your chance to join an elite group of the Savviest gun and knife owners in America.  Membership is totally FREE and Strictly CONFIDENTIAL.  Just enter your email to start receiving insider news, tips, and other valuable membership benefits.   Email (required) *First Name *Select list(s) to subscribe toInnerCircle Membership Yes, I would like to receive emails from Gun Lawyer Podcast. (You can unsubscribe anytime)Constant Contact Use. Please leave this field blank.var ajaxurl = "https://gun.lawyer/wp-admin/admin-ajax.php";

  Episode 298-NJ Assaulting Our Rights… Again Also Available OnSearchable Podcast Transcript Gun Lawyer — Episode Transcript Page – 1 – of 11 Gun Lawyer Transcript – Episode 298 SUMMARY KEYWORDS New Jersey gun laws, assault firearm ban, Supreme Court, Vera Montes, Grant cases, Assembly Bill 442, semi-automatic rifles, detachable magazine, draconian penalties, property rights, gun rights, sensitive places, reparations, We Shoot USA, gun owner mistakes. SPEAKERS Speaker 3, Teddy Nappen, Evan Nappen Evan Nappen 00:18 This is Evan Nappen. Teddy Nappen 00:20 and I’m Teddy Nappen. Evan Nappen 00:23 And welcome to Gun Lawyer. So, New Jersey is at it again. What, Teddy? Go ahead. What we gonna say, buddy? Teddy Nappen 00:31 Well, I was gonna say, you wouldn’t believe the stuff that they’re trying to cycle through on social media. They’re trying to now push the whole, “you’re afraid we’re going to take your guns away, and we’re afraid you’re going to take our children away. Which one is unfounded? Like it’s. Evan Nappen 00:53 Yeah! Which one’s unfounded, yeah. Well, being that the anties never give up, those that want to crush our rights and oppress us. New Jersey, of course, always has to lead the way on doing that. And so now, as we discussed last show, we’re all very excited at the Viramontes and Grant cases that are combined and have been granted certiorari by the U.S. Supreme Court. This means they’re finally going to get a decision out of the Supreme Court determining the constitutionality of so-called “assault weapon” ban. But what is New Jersey’s response when these things happen? They’re like the Iranians. When New Jersey makes their gun oppression policy, they act like the Iranians. They double down on threats. They double down on trying to convince us that they are just going to make life miserable for us, and they do it various ways. Evan Nappen 02:13 Their current response is essentially an assault firearm law radical enhancement. That’s right. So, here we realize that the entire concept of banning semi-automatic firearms is, my money is solidly on that is going up in flames. As we talked about before, this is finally, I believe, on the road to destruction. This whole political fight that has harmed so many good people. Ruined law-abiding citizens’ lives. Taken Page – 2 – of 11 their destroyed families’ fortunes, and taken away freedom and rights. This nightmare, I believe, is going to end. But it’s actually even more excitement over when that end might take place, that we’ll talk about in a little bit. In between, leave it to New Jersey to propose even more, even worse, even more draconian laws, particularly on the dreaded, intrinsically evil “assault firearms”. That’s right, New Jersey calls them “assault firearms”. Sometimes they’re called, in other jurisdictions, in federal law, “assault weapons”. Teddy Nappen 03:46 It’s a hoplosexual term. Evan Nappen 03:49 Yeah, you’re right. It’s a term that’s just concocted, so that they can make up lists of guns to ban and to make as far-reaching a ban to turn as many law-abiding citizens into criminals as they possibly can. So, New Jersey filed a new bill. It is Assembly Bill 442 . (https://pub.njleg.state.nj.us/Bills/2026/A0500/442_I1.PDF) This is New Jersey’s incredible doubling down on their assault firearm law, and I wanted to just go through with you. This law, because whether it’ll pass or not, who knows? Even if it does pass, this stuff I believe is going down in flames and will no longer be anything they can pass laws about. Dead. Gone. Done. Evan Nappen 04:50 Sort of like what happens when you enrage a bull elephant. You know, African elephants and Indian elephants are different. African elephants are extremely ornery, mean, tough. Republicans, you know, picked the elephant as their symbol. Sometimes I think about when we get the good elephant, when we get the African version of the elephant, and they actually do what’s needed. I think we’re going to see that here through the judicial system, which now has plenty of great judges, thanks to President Trump appointing conservative judges. The bull elephants of Africa, they do not just kill you. They eliminate you! They crush you and crush you and crush you until there’s nothing left. You can’t even be picked up with a stick and a spoon. That’s how much they disintegrate when they are riled up and attacking. I suspect that we are going to see the African bull elephant happen to this entire agenda of “assault firearm bans”. Evan Nappen 06:10 But until then, let’s look at what they want to do. Because if it doesn’t go that way, if it’s somehow upheld that these things can be prohibited and banned, and our rights can be walked upon in this manner, here’s what New Jersey is doing to the current “assault firearm” definition. Let’s actually look at what they’re saying. So, of course, we have the current law that we’re all familiar with. It has a list of 67 guns, and then they say “substantially identical” and that had never been effectively defined. We had case law that said “substantially identical” means the 1994 Crime Bill definition, which was amazing, since that was four years after New Jersey passed their law. How our legislators knew that an unconstitutional law would be saved by a federal law that was passed four years later, I don’t know. Somehow the court put that forward. We’ve lived under that for now. Page – 3 – of 11 Evan Nappen 07:08 But what they’re doing is they are now going to incorporate and define the specificity in the statute, the term substantially identical. By claiming that any of these above guns and platforms, you know, the 67 intrinsically evil semi-automatic firearms on that list, will now include under the term of “substantially identical” a semi-automatic rifle that has the ability to accept a detachable magazine. That’s step one. Any semi-automatic rifle that has the ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least one of the following features. So, currently we have a two feature requirement. This is now any one of these features, and your semi-automatic firearm that takes a detachable magazine becomes contraband. Becomes banned. Becomes unlawful for you to possess with no lawful way of possessing it. There’s no grandfathering in this bill. Evan Nappen 08:20 If you’re caught possessing it, the penalty is so draconian it defies belief. It’s up to 10 years in State Prison with a minimum mandatory, mandatory, minimum three and a half years in State Prison, no chance of parole. If you get convicted of possession of an assault firearm, even right now in New Jersey, no less this expanded list that we’re going to look at in a minute, we are talking about the judge having no discretion whatsoever, and having to impose at least three and a half years in State Prison. And folks, if you have an assault firearm and you’re possessing one, if you get caught with it, you’re looking at that penalty right now. Hopefully we’re going to get all this won, and I honestly believe we will. But just in case it doesn’t, or if you get nailed before that happens, you’re looking at insanity in terms of a prison sentence. Evan Nappen 09:16 So how does this new definition with one feature? What are the single features that make a semi-automatic rifle that takes a detachable magazine intrinsically evil and must be banned at the second degree, felony level, where you’re looking at 10 years and a minimum mandatory three and a half in prison for just having any one of the following features? Number one, a folding or telescoping stock. Wow, you know how important a folding or telescoping stock is when it comes to fighting crime. I mean, a telescoping stock that moves one or two inches back or forth. I mean, that’s like an entire crime wave into itself, right? If you have that feature on your gun, you’re looking at the offense I just outlined. Teddy Nappen 10:09 Wasn’t there a case, Dad. Wasn’t there a case that you had where if you had a folding stock, it was deemed an assault firearm? Evan Nappen 10:17 Well, that’s exactly what it is. A folding stock or telescoping stock currently is, but wait. Teddy Nappen 10:24 Yeah. Evan Nappen 10:24 One feature, though – just one. Try another, a pistol grip. If you have any rifle semi-auto that takes a mag and it has a pistol grip, it’s contraband. It’s banned. You’re looking at draconian sentencing and Page – 4 – of 11 punishment for your possession. Even though you lawfully bought it from a dealer. Even though you had a firearms ID card and went through all the vetting, went through a NICS check. It doesn’t matter, doesn’t matter one bit. You’re going to State Prison. If it has a thumb hole stock, one feature, a thumb hole stock. That’s all it takes. It’s an assault firearm. A second hand grip or protruding grip that can be held by the non-trigger hand. A second hand grip. Every rifle has a forearm that’s a second hand grip. What are you grabbing it with? Your dick? No, this is outrageous. It’s stupid. It’s a hand grip. Well, if your semi-auto rifle has a hand grip, it’s an assault firearm. Evan Nappen 11:37 A bayonet mount. Oh my gosh, a bayonet mount. That’s because of all the drive-by bayonetings, of course. If you have a flash suppressor or a muzzle brake, if you’re just trying to tame recoil, it doesn’t matter. A muzzle compensator. A threaded barrel designed to accommodate. If you just have the threads on there. A flash suppressor, a muzzle brake, or a muzzle compensator. They want you having lots of recoil on your gun, lots of recoil. Can’t tame that recoil. They don’t want you to have any accuracy in your shooting or ability to shoot without muzzle rise. I mean, what the hell? Insanity. It doesn’t matter. A grenade launcher. Well, if you have a grenade launcher, that’s one thing. Having grenades, that’s another. And can you believe they want to prohibit us from having grenade launchers? What about all of us that go out grenade launching on the weekends? I mean, that really sucks, doesn’t it? Yeah. Evan Nappen 12:39 Then semi-automatic shotguns. Let’s look at shotguns. A semi-automatic shotgun that has any one of the following: a folding or telescoping stock, a thumb hole stock, thumb hole stock on a shotgun? I don’t know, maybe. I guess they’re out there. Who cares if it has a thumb hole? It doesn’t matter. Thumb hole stock. Maybe some of those trap guns have some of the interesting designs that we sometimes see. Well, they’re going to be an assault firearm under this bill. A second hand grip or a protruding grip held by the non-triggering hand. A second hand grip. Well, folks, if your semi-auto shotgun, and this just says semi-auto shotgun, it doesn’t have to be mag fed, so my friends, if your Remington 1100 or you’re Remington 1187 or you’re Benelli or you’re Browning, you’re A5 or your standard good old reliable semi-auto shotgun that you inherited from your grandpa, if it has a forearm on it. Gee, I don’t think I’ve ever seen a semi-auto shotgun that doesn’t have a forearm on it, where you grip it with your hand, that shotgun becomes an “assault firearm”. Evan Nappen 12:58 What are they doing with pistols? A semi-automatic pistol that has the ability to accept a detachable. magazine and has at least one of the following. So, basically every semi-automatic pistol that uses a detachable magazine, which is, oh, maybe 99% of all pistols, right? Hence, what semi-automatic pistols are, which are, except for some exceptions, a few exceptions, they’re magazine fed. I know the Keltec uses the stripper clip deal into a fixed mag. Maybe you have an old broom handle that uses a stripper clip into a fixed mag, but short of that, just about every pistol out there immediately has the ability to accept a detachable mag. And if your pistol has a folding or thumb hole stock, and of course they’ll view a pistol brace as that, because New Jersey can interpret it their own way. A thumb hole stock. A second hand grip or protruding grip that can be held by the non-trigger hand. There are, of course, Page – 5 – of 11 larger revolvers, some that utilize even a form of a horizontal forearm. We’ve seen different grips that can go on other types of pistols. Evan Nappen 14:07 So, attention all fuds. Attention all fuds who think, who cares about “assault firearms”? It doesn’t affect me. Well, guess what? All your semi-auto shotguns with forearms become assault firearms overnight, if this bill gets signed into law. A fixed magazine capacity exceeding six rounds. The ability to accept a detachable magazine. So, if you have any semi-auto shotgun that uses a detachable magazine. It doesn’t matter how many the mag hold. If it can accept a detachable mag, it’s instantly an “assault firearm”. Teddy Nappen 16:22 Isn’t there a mod you can do for Desert Eagles? Evan Nappen 16:24 Sure. There’s all that stuff out there. You’re right. A capacity, now, here’s this. It’s just absolutely weird. Listen to this. A capacity to accept an ammunition magazine that attaches to the pistol outside of the pistol grip. So, if your pistol can hold, outside of the pistol grip, an extra magazine. It doesn’t mean that the magazine has to actually function. But if you have a handgun that has some capacity to hold an extra mag, then that’s an “assault firearm”. If your pistol has.. I don’t even.. I guess there are some.. Teddy Nappen 17:10 I think they’re referring to, you know, when you tape mags together, sometimes. Evan Nappen 17:14 I guess. Well, I don’t even know if that’s possible on a pistol. Or if you have some type of magazine holder that is somehow attached to a gun. I don’t even know what they are referring to. Maybe the Roneys. You know, where your Glock goes in the Roney, and you can have an extra mag up there that you can just grab. I don’t know. But if it can do it. Here’s a great one. A threaded barrel capable of accepting a barrel extender, flash suppressor, forward hand grip, or silencers. Oh, a threaded barrel. So, now, because your pistol has a threaded barrel and you just want to have a compensator on there, or extra barrel weight. Single feature. It’s an assault firearm. Evan Nappen 18:01 Any handgun with a manufactured weight of 50 ounces or more, when the pistol is unloaded. And then thrown in, I guess, for laughs, is a semi-automatic version of an automatic rifle, shotgun, or firearm. A semi-automatic version of an automatic. So, what are semi-automatic versions of full automatic firearms? Well, that’s going to now include, well, obviously your semi-auto Thompsons that are legal. They’re going to be illegal. Any semi- automatic. Then the entire class of ARs, right? That, of course, will fall under that. So, this isn’t even handguns. That’s just as a general catch-all that it’s any semi-auto. And most semi-autos are versions of what are otherwise full auto or select fire guns. Just about every semi auto rifle out there, you know. Very few that aren’t that. I mean, you may find some exceptions, but good grief. Look at the stroke of coverage. That isn’t even a feature bill, that isn’t even a feature bill. Page – 6 – of 11 Evan Nappen 19:23 Even if you have a semi-automatic rifle that used any kind of magazine. It doesn’t have to be a detachable magazine, anything, or a semi-automatic version of an automatic shotgun, rifle, or firearm. Wait a minute. Broom handles that we talked about not having a detachable mag would seem to be legal. But under this new bill, now they’re illegal, because broom handles also had a happy switch at a certain point. And a semi- automatic version of it is now going to be flat out illegal, even though it doesn’t use a detachable magazine. So, you can see how far back and how far reaching and how broad this insanity is. Teddy Nappen 20:12 Wouldn’t it also meet the weight category? Didn’t they say, like, what is it, 50 ounces or something? Evan Nappen 20:18 No, I think it’s under on that, but look, I’m not sure. I haven’t weighed a broom handle in a while, but hey, it could be. The bottom line, folks, is this is what they see as important to do. They see this as something that has to get done to us. To turn us all into criminals. Doubling down facing what is going to happen in the courts, and that’s where I really want to tell you. As crappy as this bill is, as insane and stupid as this bill is, the bottom line is we are positioned beautifully for the death of this insanity, finally, finally. And that’s not just because of Viramontes and Grant being decided by the U.S. Supreme Court, but our own cases that are currently in the Third Circuit Court of Appeals with the en banc panel. We’re going to see decisions coming out both on “sensitive places” and on “assault firearms”, and we’re going to see those decisions before we even see the Supreme Court rule in about a year on “assault firearms”. I believe within the next few months. Because we have a panel that appears to be one of the most respectful of the Second Amendments of any appellate circuit federal court out there, I believe we’re going to see our New Jersey suffering end sooner than even the Supreme Court’s death knell that should happen in June 2027. So, we have a lot to be positive about. The positive is this is really positioned to finally be crushed like a bull elephant smashing its prey into absolute oblivion, and I’m gonna be extremely happy when that day comes. And after that, my friends. Go ahead. What, Teddy? Teddy Nappen 22:30 Well, I’m just kind of thinking back to when you were starting off, Dad. Think to the New Jersey for the assault to the assault weapon ban, the original assault weapon ban, where that came into play, just thinking along lines of like what were the what was the arguments, and like what was the things they used as their tactics. Evan Nappen 22:50 Well, I can tell you, folks, the history. Back in late 1989. I actually become attorney in 1988. They passed the bill that became effective in May of 1990. New Jersey’s assault firearm ban. And I remember back then we did not have the Second Amendment established by Heller and McDonald and Bruen. We did not have the test of constitutionality with the historical analog requirements, etc. We did not have any of that. We didn’t even have a court declaring that the Second Amendment was an individual right. We all knew that it was a violation then of the Second Amendment, because we all knew what the Second Amendment meant. But we didn’t have the juice. The case law didn’t exist. Page – 7 – of 11 Evan Nappen 23:48 So, our approach at the time, which was initially successful, was going at the vagueness of the statute itself, which worked in Merrill. That’s how New Jersey’s law evolved when they brought the federal case over that. But we had arguments then, and it did turn thousands and thousands of citizens into criminals. and still does to this day. Looking now, years later, 30 plus years now later, we’re finally going to see the end of it. It’s been a long time coming, but we will win this. It took a long time, but what we’ve established in getting to this point will protect freedom for generations. And that’s something I’m proud of, because I was a small part of that. All of you that have fought for our rights are all part of it, and we’re seeing history right before our eyes. Evan Nappen 24:58 But you’ve got to know, you’ve got to understand that this law has been devastating to so many people. It has destroyed and harmed. It has caused far more harm than any firearm has actually caused in terms of the absolute destruction to law-abiding citizens. When you look at how small the numbers are for deaths and such from these particular guns, it’s minuscule compared to just how many people have suffered. And that’s why, my friends, after we get this victory, I want reparations for gun owners. That’s right. Reparations for gun owners who suffered under New Jersey’s tyrannical laws that destroyed, harmed, and took away rights. Listen, reparations here, we have real victims that are alive today, not generations ago. Alive now that have paid a price for this insanity by New Jersey, and they deserve reparations. We’ll be talking more about that after we destroy this horrible, most horrible of infringements. Calling it an infringement, actually, is almost doing it a disservice. It’s an atrocity, an atrocity passed by New Jersey. So, stay tuned. These are good times. I’m extremely cautiously optimistic for us, and you should be as well. Evan Nappen 26:43 Hey, let me tell you about our good friends at WeShoot. WeShoot is a range in Lakewood, an indoor range. It’s the range where Teddy and I love to shoot. It is a fantastic resource. You will love WeShoot. Many of you already shoot there. They have great training. They have great pro shop, and they can get you equipped. They can get you everything you need, so that you can stay sharp, focused, trained, and practiced with your gun,. Because if you don’t shoot your gun, what good is it? You’ve got to keep the skill set and keep your training. Make sure you’re on it. It’s super important. WeShoot is a great resource, right there in Central Jersey, conveniently off the Parkway in Lakewood, New Jersey. You can go to weshootusa.com. They have a great website. We love WeShoot, and so will you. Their training is first rate. Get your CCARE certificate so that you can get your carry. You can get advanced training or basic training. You can have the most fundamental. If you have someone in your family who doesn’t know a thing about guns, they can get their start the right way at WeShoot. If you have someone, maybe even yourself, that’s really advanced and want top of the line advanced training, they can provide you with those services there, too. They’re the best. So, check out WeShoot at weshootusa.com. Evan Nappen 28:29 And while you’re at it, make sure you get a copy of my book, New Jersey Gun Law. It is the bible of New Jersey Gun Law. It’s a book everybody uses, judges, lawyers, firearms division, you name it. It’s Page – 8 – of 11 the guidebook to help you from becoming a GOFU. You don’t want to become a GOFU and that’s one of the best ways of avoiding it. Knowing the insanity of New Jersey so you don’t get caught up in the traps that they lay for law-abiding gun owners. So, they cannot turn them into criminals, and then shout to the stupid general public to make it look like they’re doing something about crime when it has nothing whatsoever to do with it, except destroying their counter voter constituency. That’s the reality of what they’re about. So, be smart. Get a copy of my book at EvanNappen.com. Go to EvanNappen.com and get your copy today. Teddy, what else do you have for us? Teddy Nappen 29:33 As you know, Press Checks are always free, and there’s something that seems to be coming up more and more. As we know, the Left on their last legs when it comes to their attacks on our rights, particularly with the victories that we’re having, and the ones that we’re going to have in the Supreme Court, all the challenges. But I will give them credit as they get more and more creative and look for other ways to abuse. So, this goes back a year ago, and this was from Gun News Daily. This is under Platkin from the Office of New Jersey Attorney General. (https://gunnewsdaily.com/n-j-offers-free-decals-for-gun-free-zones/) They were offering free gun-free zone decals to establishments wishing to register as designated gun-free areas under the sensitive places law. So, they were actually trying to disarm you in the best way they can. Just getting a bunch of individuals who have their property, any place, storefronts, whatever, and say no. No guns allowed. Don’t defend yourself. And this brings into an issue that I find important. It is a clash of rights, where it is the argument of property rights versus our gun rights. And look, we’ve seen the abuse of property, where you have people coming on to it. You see the squatter issues, and you see many on that end. But when it comes to gun rights, which is our civil right, it’s something that I think is going to come to blows eventually, and I think this needs to be handled. Evan Nappen 31:06 Well, particularly after the Hawaii case, where now the vampire rule is unconstitutional. We’re going to see more regarding sensitive places when the Third Circuit Appeals decision, which should come out shortly on with Koons. The Koons decision on New Jersey’s sensitive places, and I’m excited to see what the panel has to say. But you’re right, Teddy. What they’ll try to do is they’ll try to pit property rights versus gun rights, and they’ll try to still encourage private entities to put up ” gun” signs. This way the clash between property rights and gun rights has to get figured out, because yeah, we have the Hawaii case that talks about places open to the public where the federal government cannot make a law regarding that. Evan Nappen 32:04 But a private entity still has the ability over their private property to decide who can go on it. So, they can say no shoes, no shirt, no service. They can say no animals, no whatever. There’s different things property owners, you know. But the line gets drawn over race because of civil rights. You can’t say no blacks or no Jews or no Hispanics. You can’t do that, but you can limit other things on your property. So, I believe strongly in property rights, and I also believe strongly, big surprise, in gun rights. But what happens is many times with rights there’s a clash of rights. Property rights and gun rights may have a clash here if a property owner doesn’t want guns on their property. Where do we draw the line? Does my right under the Second Amendment, my fundamental, God-given right to defend myself with the Page – 9 – of 11 most effective means, does that right that I have to do that, which is a right 100% established, no question about it. Does that right override or supersede a property owner’s property rights? And that’s where the antis will play that game. They’ll try to get property rights made superior to gun rights, but in reality, that should not be the case. It should be the opposite. Gun rights should be put on the very same plane as civil rights. It is a civil right, and I mean in the same way that you aren’t allowed to exercise racial discrimination, you also cannot discriminate against individuals that are exercising their Second Amendment right, their individual right to keep and bear arms. It belongs in the same class. Teddy Nappen 34:09 Just to go into, like, where the test would be needed for when it, if the Supreme Court ever took a case on this. Basically it would acquire the equal protection clause to where that falls into the category of strict scrutiny, where we’re in the grouping where it’s like you cannot discriminate race, religion, creed, and gun owner, effectively, where you well kind of like. Evan Nappen 34:31 I don’t know. I don’t know if that is a test that will be utilized or not. Because if it’s gun rights, then we have to go back to that historical analog, but when it comes to property rights and how far you can assert it, it’s somewhat of an open question. I can tell you this. Any business stupid enough to put a sign out there that no guns are allowed. So that you are effectively disarming every one of your customers. Get ready to get your ass sued off when a crime occurs in your place of business, and you disarmed the defender who could have otherwise defended themselves. You want that lawsuit? Because that’s what you’re going to get. That’s exactly what you’re going to get. So, think real hard before you put up a “no guns allowed” sign, because the “no guns allowed” sign is also saying sue me if a crime occurs here, and you couldn’t defend yourself. That’s also what that sign says, just not in writing on it. Teddy Nappen 35:37 Was there a case where someone was forced to disarm, and they were either shot or injured because they were disarmed? Evan Nappen 35:47 I believe there have been, but I don’t have them right at my fingertips. But I’ll tell you what. I don’t see a problem with that cause of action. I don’t see a problem because there is tort action in New Jersey called failure to provide adequate security. So, businesses have a duty to provide adequate security. If they ban someone who has a carry license from carrying a gun and protecting themselves, and they have a duty, which they do have, to provide adequate security, then I can well see an excellent civil lawsuit taking place under their duty to provide adequate security. In fact, making the premises less secure by taking away not just a permit to carry holder, but a trained permit to carry holder. And why do I say they’re trained? Because training, my friends, is part of getting your carry permit, isn’t it? In the Carry Killer law, what do they require? CCARE. You’re trained. Trained in what? Use of force. When you can and can’t shoot. Trained in what? How to shoot safely. You must pass and qualify. So, they are stopping state-qualified individuals who have a permit to carry from lawfully defending themselves, and then failing to provide adequate security to those people who they mandated disarm themselves. Good luck with that civil suit. Dumb ass business for putting that sign up. Good luck with that. Page – 10 – of 11 Teddy Nappen 37:34 I’m still waiting on New Jersey trying to force the where they require that class. I remember it was EveryTown was running those stupid classes for training them up for firearms, and it was just a long propaganda wing that they just go through all their talking points. There was barely any knowledge being taught in actually handling the firearms. I’m waiting for New Jersey to force you to take that particular course, so I guess that’d be another abuse to that as well. Who knows? Evan Nappen 38:07 And then those will be challenged too, but the good news is we’re making tremendous progress. I believe really great things are soon on the way here, and I mean within reach. It’s going to be great. But in the meantime, we still have GOFUs taking place, Teddy. We have Gun Owner Fuck Ups. GOFUs, as you know, are expensive mistakes that clients and others have made, and I want to always advise my beloved listeners, about these GOFUs. So that you can learn for free the mistakes that others have made. One of the GOFUs that we see a lot, and I mean a lot, folks, is not knowing what’s in your handbag. Not knowing what’s in your suitcase. Not knowing what’s in your briefcase. When I say not knowing, I mean forgetting that your gun is there. You may think, why would I ever forget that my gun is there? But oh my god, we get the airport cases. We get the folks that are visiting historical places where they have screening. We get cases where people are going to amusement parks. We have all these sporting events, entertainment events, etc. And they’re bringing their backpack, or they’re using a range bag or something that they had used to go to the range or something. Where they had traveled with a gun, and forgot. Evan Nappen 39:43 Folks, be extra careful. Just like Press Checks are free, it’s absolutely free for you to thoroughly and completely empty your purse, empty your bag, empty your suitcase, empty your briefcase, check every pocket. Make sure it’s empty, and then put in what you need. Make sure that you’re not carrying by accident a gun, a magazine, or ammunition. I’ve seen it all, and these things lead to criminal charges. Often they lead to you facing draconian penalties and losing your gun rights. Make sure that you double check any of these bags and make sure you know the places that you’re going as to whether you’re going to be security screened. Evan Nappen 40:40 I’ve had many clients say they walked up and they saw that there was a metal detector or screening taking place, and instead of just turning around, going back to the car, because they suddenly remembered they have it, they figure, well, I’ll just tell them about it. I’ll just be honest and say, look, I have it. What do you want me to do? GOFU. GOFU. If you do that, boom! Next thing you know, the police are involved. Don’t ever go through those security checkpoints of any type with any kind of firearm, accessory, ammo, or anything. It causes tremendous grief, and is one of the top GOFUs that we see every day. Evan Nappen 41:33 This is Evan Nappen and Teddy Nappen reminding you that gun laws do not protect honest citizens from criminals. They protect criminals from honest citizens. Page – 11 – of 11 Speaker 3 41:44 Gun Lawyer is a CounterThink Media production. The music used in this broadcast was managed by Cosmo Music, New York, New York. Reach us by emailing [email protected]. The information and opinions in this broadcast do not constitute legal advice. Consult a licensed attorney in your state. Downloadable PDF TranscriptGun Lawyer S5 E298_Transcript About The HostEvan Nappen, Esq.Known as “America’s Gun Lawyer,” Evan Nappen is above all a tireless defender of justice. Author of eight bestselling books and countless articles on firearms, knives, and weapons history and the law, a certified Firearms Instructor, and avid weapons collector and historian with a vast collection that spans almost five decades — it’s no wonder he’s become the trusted, go-to expert for local, industry and national media outlets. Regularly called on by radio, television and online news media for his commentary and expertise on breaking news Evan has appeared countless shows including Fox News – Judge Jeanine, CNN – Lou Dobbs, Court TV, Real Talk on WOR, It’s Your Call with Lyn Doyle, Tom Gresham’s Gun Talk, and Cam & Company/NRA News. As a creative arts consultant, he also lends his weapons law and historical expertise to an elite, discerning cadre of movie and television producers and directors, and novelists. He also provides expert testimony and consultations for defense attorneys across America. Email Evan Your Comments and Questions  [email protected] Join Evan’s InnerCircleHere’s your chance to join an elite group of the Savviest gun and knife owners in America.  Membership is totally FREE and Strictly CONFIDENTIAL.  Just enter your email to start receiving insider news, tips, and other valuable membership benefits.   Email (required) *First Name *Select list(s) to subscribe toInnerCircle Membership Yes, I would like to receive emails from Gun Lawyer Podcast. (You can unsubscribe anytime)Constant Contact Use. Please leave this field blank.var ajaxurl = "https://gun.lawyer/wp-admin/admin-ajax.php";

  Episode 297- SCOTUS Win on Assault Firearms Also Available OnSearchable Podcast Transcript Gun Lawyer — Episode Transcript Page – 1 – of 15 Gun Lawyer — Episode 297 Transcript SUMMARY KEYWORDS Supreme Court, assault weapons, Second Amendment, gun rights, New Jersey, NRA, firearm laws, Heller decision, McDonald, Bruen, reparations, gun control, concealed carry, Thomas Jefferson, gun lawyer. SPEAKERS Speaker 3, Teddy Nappen, Evan Nappen, Speaker 1 Speaker 1 00:11 Lawyer, Evan Nappen 00:17 I’m Evan Nappen. Teddy Nappen 00:19 And I’m Teddy Nappen. Evan Nappen 00:22 And welcome to Gun Lawyer. Well, my friends, I have to tell you, this is just one of the greatest moments in what I would have to say in our fight to destroy gun rights suppression. It is just a banner time right now. Absolutely, a crescendo at a moment here that I’m just so excited about. Truly, truly excited, no joke. The Supreme Court of the United States has granted certiorari, meaning accepted the case, so that it means there will be an opinion, a decision, a rule made by the Court finally on so-called “assault weapons”. (https://thereload.com/supreme-court-to-decide-constitutionality-of-ar-15-bans/) Evan Nappen 01:27 Yes, we’ve done it. We have finally gotten to where the U.S. Supreme Court is going to look at the impact of the Second Amendment on this issue. I can tell you that I’ve personally been battling and fighting in the state of New Jersey since it was first enacted in May of 1990. Looking back to those days, I remember just thinking, man, hopefully we’ll one day get the United States Supreme Court to deal with this issue. But back then there was no Heller decision. There was no Supreme Court decision that even said that the right to keep and bear arms was an individual right. We didn’t even have that back then. And when the anti-gun rights crowd embarked on this brand new approach, which it was at the time. Evan Nappen 02:38 To understand the history and where we are right now, why it just is so meaningful, you need to understand that the gun rights attack, the effort by our adversaries, to destroy our right to keep and bear arms, basically, in modern times, started after World War One. It was essentially imported here Page – 2 – of 15 from the U.K., from Great Britain. It had gotten its roots there, and it came across the pond like a cancer. It percolated to the point where by 1934 we ended up with the first National Firearms Act. Prior to ’34 but after World War One, you saw states passing state laws of what we commonly call gun control laws. And the gun control laws of those days first initiated through the ’20s, and we still have remnants of those laws still on the books, by the way, in New Jersey and other places. They were put forward by state legislatures and enacted, and those gun laws were mirrored and influenced and encouraged by what was taking place originally in Great Britain. Evan Nappen 04:22 These laws in America at that time period, and you may find this surprising, and it’s not meant to be bashing in any way of NRA. But they were even supported and promoted by the NRA at that time. The NRA had even put forward what were called the “model firearm laws”. They put model laws together that they wanted states to pass. The NRA saw its mission then in a naive, unfortunately, you know, very naive, as certain gun laws and such, that they would support. Now, since then, that’s not their position, and they’ve learned from this naive mistake. But it led to the 1934 Act, and we’ve suffered under that this entire time. It became the first national gun rights oppression law. Even at the time in the “American Rifleman”, you could read it, and they even praised it. They said, “Ah, and this is how they viewed it. You’ve got to understand, put yourself in the time. They said, “Ah, we’ve solved the gun problem in America.” We’ve passed this great national law, and now we’ve resolved it. We’ve solved it. We’ve addressed it. It’s done. And, of course, it was far from done. But for approximately 30 plus years, that was about it for our national laws on guns being passed. Evan Nappen 06:00 Then along comes the ’68 Gun Control Act, which built upon, to a certain degree, of course, built upon the NFA. We already had that national law and then the ’68 law. Then ’72 and then ’80s and ’90s, and etc. So that foundation got laid. And in between all this, what you mainly saw the fight as being, though, where the modern day focus, the modern day focus was handguns. I remember through the ’80s, before the invention, and that’s what it was, the invention of the “assault weapon” issue. It hadn’t been invented yet. Everything was, we only want to ban handguns. Handguns were the symbol of crime. Every news show on the major controlled networks, there weren’t any cables, you know. You just had ABC, NBC, and CBS, and you had their nightly news. And anytime they talked about crime, whether there was a gun involved or not, they always showed a handgun on the news screen anytime they talked about crime. So the propaganda was put there. Everything was about banning handguns, and the main gun rights oppression group of the day was known as Handgun Control. Handgun Control was a big group. You had players at the time like Pete Shields and others, and this is where the push was. Then along comes Josh Sugarman, who puts out his manifesto. Teddy Nappen 07:50 Closet hoplosexual. Evan Nappen 07:52 Right. His manifesto of the assault weapons and their accessories. And even in his manifesto, he writes that the American public will be fooled by this, because they don’t know the difference between machine guns and semi-autos. This lays the groundwork for this. And lo and behold, we have California Page – 3 – of 15 with Patrick Purdy and the massacre that occurred in that incident, and that’s all the blood they needed to dance in. Then the assault weapon laws became the biggest threat to our Second Amendment rights, and everything weirdly shifted, weirdly shifted, so that handguns, with the growth of concealed carry, which has been an amazing success for gun rights support. Handguns are not the big issue for banning, except for, of course, a modern day focus on Glocks, because they’re easily convertible, right? Except for that. You don’t see the push like you used to ban handguns. Evan Nappen 09:00 Of course, Heller took care of that as well. Saying you can’t. It’s unconstitutional to ban handguns, too. But the push on semi-automatic rifles under the contrived created term of “assault weapon”. They took the German of Sturmgewehr, which was the true original assault weapon, a medium power round in a long arm that’s designed for urban settings. It is select fire, both full auto and semi-auto. And causing this, creating this, and putting it with that scary “assault weapon” moniker to scare the public and sell it. And it was to their credit, to a certain degree successful. It was successful in a number of states that passed state laws, including New Jersey. They passed one of the one worst, most destructive, horrible gun laws that have ruined good people. We’ll talk more about that in a little bit. Evan Nappen 10:06 And even a federal law at one point through the 1994 bill that was a crime, which they call the Crime Bill, but I call the bill that was a crime. We had the first national assault weapon ban. That law sunset and went away in 10 years, which was 2004, and they’ve not been able to reenact another federal ban since. But that ban did end up living on, by the way, in the state of New Jersey, because New Jersey adopted the language of that to save New Jersey’s assault firearm ban from being declared unconstitutionally vague. Now that was started by a case that I did, State v. Merrill, where I had the law declared unconstitutional for vagueness because of the term “substantially identical”, which was undefined. What does “substantially identical” even mean? How can something be substantially and identical at the same time? It’s like saying almost exact. Nothing is almost exact. It’s either exact or it isn’t. And because of the vagueness of that term, it was found unconstitutional by Judge Michael Farron, Monmouth County. We knocked out the case. Evan Nappen 11:21 That case was then brought into federal court by the gun rights groups, and that’s where the Attorney General, in order to save it, adopted the 1994 federal crime bill standard that was feature specific. We still live by that today in New Jersey, as to what makes a compliant gun or not, as to the definition of “substantially identical”. The court said, well, now that you know the definition, it’s no longer vague, and therefore it’s constitutional, which is, of course, a judicial lie, a fallacy, a falsehood. Because what that means is that somehow in 1990 our legislators passed an unconstitutionally vague law that did not have definition and somehow knew that in 1994 the federal government would pass a law that defines the undefined law in New Jersey. That’s just ridiculousness squared. But nonetheless it is law, at least as it stands in New Jersey now. We saw other states and other counties constantly push on the so-called “assault weapon” ban, a focus being on the big bad AR-15. We’ve had fight after fight. Page – 4 – of 15 Page – 5 – of 15 Evan Nappen 12:35 And as our battle for Second Amendment rights continued through the courts, we got the trifecta. We got the Heller finding of what we all knew in our hearts was true, that the Second Amendment is an individual right. We got McDonald, which said this doesn’t just apply to the federal government, it applies to all states and localities. And then we got Bruen that laid out the test of constitutionality and gave us the requirement that carry permits must be issued, must be issued. With that buildup of having the trifecta, we’ve now gotten more cases from the Supreme Court that solidify this approach. And just now, in this moment in our lifetimes, the Supreme Court has finally accepted the challenge to the bans of so-called “assault weapons”. The name of the case. Teddy Nappen 13:36 Particularly those two cases. Evan Nappen 13:39 Yes, Viramontes v. Cook County, and Grant versus Higgins. Now, those cases, the Cook County case is the Illinois’ local county. It’s a local assault weapon ban ordinance, just an ordinance banning. And then the other case they took was in Connecticut, which is a statewide ban. Why do that? Well, what’s great is they’re going at anywhere and everything, whether it’s local or state. The challenge is across the board, as per McDonald. It’s incorporated both local and state. So we now have a certiorari grant combining two cases, and it isn’t just limited to Connecticut and this one local county in Illinois. Their decision will reach all localities, all states, and stand in the future with our win, that I am confident we will win, to stop future federal laws on this. Here’s the actual. Go ahead, Teddy. Teddy Nappen 14:52 I will point out that this is just something the we. I always keep an eye on, like all the arguments the Left always do. I always love the ad hominem attack, where they say. Well, this is just some Second Amendment Foundation (SAF), which is they are a party to both cases. (https://saf.org/supreme-court-grants-cert-in-saf-assault-weapons-cases/) They’re the ones that brought the cases. Second Amendment Foundation was joined by the Firearms Policy Coalition. They brought the Vermont. Evan Nappen 15:16 And second Amendment Foundation. Teddy Nappen 15:17 And Second Amendment Foundation, along with the Connecticut Citizens Defense League. They always try to say. Evan Nappen 15:21 Teddy, there are also individual plaintiffs that are very important, that have standing, that have gone this distance. So, this is actual people and organizations. Teddy Nappen 15:32 Yeah, astroturf. Page – 6 – of 15 Evan Nappen 15:32 Yeah, well, astroturf, that’s a joke. Teddy Nappen 15:36 Yeah, but that is. Evan Nappen 15:37 I mean. Yeah. Go ahead. Teddy Nappen 15:40 Just to take that in. Throughout history, just look at the cases throughout, like some of the major Supreme Court cases. I think it was, what was it, either.. I think it was like maybe Plessy versus there was one regular Supreme Court case where it was brought by the, the.. it was about segregation. It was the train companies, where they’re trying to make sure they didn’t have to make extra cars for separating blacks and whites. And it was brought, and they actually set it up to have the case, to get the individual arrested for the segregation. It’s not the first time you’ve had organizations, and that’s throughout all, like a vast majority of cases where you have other. Evan Nappen 16:22 Listen, Teddy. Astroturf? Rosa Parks was a setup. Rosa Parks at the back of the bus, racial segregation. What do you think? It was engineered to make the challenge! Yeah, so don’t give me that. You want to put the issues forward and get the issues decided. Good, good. They have actual plaintiffs. They have actual people that are suffering under these laws, and they have organizations that represent vast amounts of members. It’s fine. It’s real. The assault firearm bans are real, and in New Jersey, their impact has been one of absolute destructive power. But let me just tell you what the court, just to close this, so we know exactly what they’re going to decide. Here is the question presented that they have granted certiorari on. Here it is, ready? Whether the Second and 14th Amendments guarantee the right to possess the AR-15 platform and similar semi-automatic rifles. This is great! One of the criteria that the antis are going to use, is they’re going to say, well, it has to be arms that are commonly possessed. Well, the AR-15 is the most commonly possessed rifle in America. As a matter of fact, folks, there are more AR-15s than there are Ford F150 pickup trucks! Let that sink in. Teddy Nappen 18:08 That was the other argument I’ve been seeing from The Trace. (https://www.thetrace.org/2026/06/assault-weapons-bans-supreme-court-2a/) They just did their whole, you know, boo hoo, whining, and crying. It was from Chip Brownlee. Guess the first thing they highlight? This is the fight for the dangerous and unusual AR-15. Like that’s the common use. That’s the spin that they’re going to use. They’re trying to lay the groundwork on, is that whole idea of. Evan Nappen 18:34 Well, you know why? They don’t have historical analogs under the Bruen test anymore, that can help them. Their analogs have had their legs cut off. The one they loved was about the Black Codes, where they banned blacks from Bowie knives and guns, or whatever. And Alito, just in the recent opinion, made it clear that’s a tainted relic. It can’t be taken seriously. So, forget it. That analog is out the Page – 7 – of 15 window. They just revealed, based on research by Stephen Halbrook, that the precedent claimed for carrying – as a matter of fact, this was even in Kuhns. One of the precedents relied upon by the court was a law that never was a law. It was simply something in some Frenchman’s book that talked about it. But the actual law was not how they’re citing it at all. Their analogs are fraught with fraud, fraught with being completely tossed in the garbage can, and they know it. When it comes to that Bruen test of history, text and tradition. In order for a law to be upheld and found not to be unconstitutional under the Second Amendment, the Government has the burden of showing the past analogs that there were other laws that were like that law that make this new law acceptable. And they don’t have that. They do not have it. So, they’re falling back, Teddy, to it’s not common use. Well, that’s falls flat on its face. They’re falling back on what? What’s the classic? Why don’t you tell us? What’s the classic when all else fails for them to cry about? Teddy Nappen 20:34 Blood In The Streets. That’s Blood In The Streets. They always cite two BITS. We have to consider the gun violence when considering this. All that goes right to Brown. Evan Nappen 20:43 Public policy. They always go back to the public policy arguments, public policy, and guess what? That doesn’t cut it! That doesn’t justify infringement of the Second Amendment. That argument is dead in the water. It’s not the test. It’s not a balancing test. Balancing tests aren’t allowed. Done, dead, gone. You can’t balance public policy. Can’t do it anymore. They know they’re going to be crushed, and I cannot wait for that day. I cannot wait till, at the latest, it’ll be next June. We’re going to have a decision that removes finally. I know it in my bones. Gets rid of, ends this travesty called the “assault weapon” ban. Let me tell you something. These laws have destroyed good people. These laws have created more harm than they claim the firearms themselves have created, especially in states like New Jersey. Evan Nappen 22:00 It isn’t just that an individual can’t have that gun or this gun. It’s the aggressive insanity of enforcement destroying people’s lives. If you get convicted of possession of an “assault firearm” in New Jersey, right? An AR-15 that has a bayonet mount on it and a pistol grip. You are now guilty of possession of an “assault firearm” because of a bayonet mount. You’re looking at 10 years in State Prison with a minimum mandatory three and a half years. No chance of parole. Three and a half years – minimum mandatory, folks. No way around it. No way. If you’re convicted of that, the judge has zero discretion. You can be Mother Teresa, and you’ll have to get three and a half years minimum mandatory in State Prison because you had a gun that had a bayonet mount and a pistol grip. You can only have one offending feature, and the pistol grip is one offending feature, right out of the box. And you had two because your other one was a bayonet mount. You know how important bayonet mounts are to crime. I mean, come on. What about all the drive-by bayonetings we have to take care of here, right? Folks, that’s how they.. Teddy Nappen 22:00 I think you also. Just looking at the future, because from the facts of where everything’s lined up, yeah, we’re going to win. And just seeing that right now, the way things lay out, I look to. Page – 8 – of 15 Evan Nappen 23:45 Well, we don’t want to be overconfident, but we. Teddy Nappen 23:48 I understand. Fine, cautiously optimistic. Evan Nappen 23:52 But I am cautiously optimistic. I am incredibly cautiously optimistic with an emphasis on optimistic. Teddy Nappen 23:59 I always look to what is left of their, what would be the next step, then on there on the gun right suppressionist? Because the only thing I could think of is they’re just going to try to put. Evan Nappen 24:09 Wait, wait, wait. Hold that thought for a minute. I just want to finish about the other destruction that has occurred. Like I said, it’s not just that you get arrested and you’re charged with assault firearm. Then you’re thrown in the Gulag, and they want to hold you until your trial. You’re going to spend at least a week, even if your lawyer can get you out before your trial. You have that fight. Then they use it as a licensing disqualifier. If you had an assault firearm, you’re banned from ever having guns again. It doesn’t matter. It’s an assault firearm. On top of that, they have made assault firearm possession not releasable under the Gulag. Remember, we’ve talked about this. It becomes a criteria where there’s a presumption for you to be held in jail. Presumption in favor all over this nonsense. So, you see it’s far-reaching, and what happens when someone inadvertently gets involved in this? Your life gets destroyed. You lose your career. You lose your family. You can lose your freedom. You lose your gun rights, and it’s devastating to people. And then there are those that are doing hard time because they are otherwise lawful possessors. It doesn’t matter. They’re doing the time, having their life destroyed, and having been turned into felons. Evan Nappen 25:40 So, let me just say this. After this decision is a tremendous win for our gun rights and for civil rights, because it’s in the same category as the First Amendment, folks. It’s in the same category as a fundamental right under the Bill of Rights. What I want to see after that decision is reparations to gun owners. That’s right. Reparations to gun owners. You know, they talk on the other side about reparations for slavery to generations later that were never slaves, and they want reparations. Here we will have reparations to individuals who are still alive and have suffered. To anybody that had to give up one of their guns that never should have had to. To those that went into the Gulag and suffered that never should have. To those who have done State Prison sentences that never should have. To those who have lost their gun rights, who have had their families, their lives, their freedom, and their fortunes, all destroyed. Reparations to them. Wait till after this decision comes down. Then we push for reparations. We don’t let it end. Oh, sure. Is that difficult? Will it be hard? Yeah, but it’s no more hard, and frankly, less, way less, of an ask than those asking for reparations for slavery, where we don’t even have the victims of that alive today. Page – 9 – of 15 Teddy Nappen 27:09 It’s also very easy to quantify, because you go into just the legal fees that were brought, the time in jail. Plenty of people have sued and won on those cases. So, it’s something you can actually determine, as opposed to generational racism. It’s ridiculous, as ridiculous sounds, but to this end, where someone who had their life destroyed because of the gun control that they have pushed over the years. Evan Nappen 27:39 That was utterly a violation of our fundamental rights and Second Amendment civil rights. It absolutely is going to lay groundwork for at least tremendous litigation, and really we should have eventually a federal reparations law requiring states to pay that ever had these laws. To compensate individuals who suffered under their tyranny. So, Teddy, you had something else to mention. I know you did. Teddy Nappen 27:39 Yes. So, the one thing I was looking at, whenever I always look to our opponents, because I try not to think of them as being stupid. Even though they are pretty retarded on a lot of different fronts, but they always keep pushing. And I remember this term for it, of what they were described. The Left and the Marxists are line steppers. They go with the idea of what can we get away with, what can we push for, because they always go for that. It’s always just progressivism for progressive sake. Cut to trans ideology. Cut to, you know, we’re going to take your children away and then transition them. Cut to any form of the Left in its insanity. Teddy Nappen 28:16 I always think what will be the next push, and I can see it right now. Repealing the Second Amendment will be the next step. Evan Nappen 28:16 100 percent. Teddy Nappen 28:36 Yes, that will. That’s the only. The only thing I can think of is what they did to Penny, what they did to all the other self-defense cases that we’ve had. Fine, you can have your firearms, but if you ever use them, we will drag you through the courts. We’ll make your life a living hell. We will make it so that people will want to murder you and come to your house and dox you. That’s the only thing at this point. That’s all they have. They are the party of violence, that is shown. You have doxing websites they run. That is the only two avenues I can see for that, and also suing the gun shops into oblivion, which we need to do something with the, I think, what is it, the PLCAA, where it’s the protection. Evan Nappen 29:59 Yeah, PLCAA. (Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act) Right. Teddy Nappen 30:02 We need to improve and expand PLCAA, and just say no. Stop wasting the state’s money. So, I don’t know what the test would be, but we need to. Page – 10 – of 15 Evan Nappen 30:12 Well, the fight will definitely change, and you know, the gun rights oppressors are not going to give up. But. Teddy Nappen 30:21 Of courses not. Evan Nappen 30:21 It will absolutely take away one of their actually most successful modern gun rights oppression tax. This will be one of. This will destroy what has actually been one of their areas of success, to be honest. They have succeeded in multiple states, and even at one point federally over this. This will destroy it, kill it, and they’re going to be knocked back on their heels very hard by it. And then we need to finish the job. Evan Nappen 31:00 Repeal Hughes Amendment. Evan Nappen 31:01 We need to go at reparations and make it so that when any of these governments decide to embark on rights violations, that down the road we make them pay. We just don’t kill the law. We just don’t knock it out, so that it no longer has effect. We have to make them pay for what they did to good people, and we do that through reparations. Teddy Nappen 31:29 We should also repeal the Hughes. Amendment. Evan Nappen 31:31 That’s going to build. Once you get this case, then, of course, the rest of NFA, any other hardware bands, all these things are going to be on the table. We will have even stronger, better case law to take it all out as the house of cards built by the gun rights oppressors collapses. Hey, and by the way, let me tell you about our good friends at WeShoot. WeShoot is a range in Lakewood. It’s where Teddy and I both shoot, and that is, of course, where we get our training. And I want to tell you that they are offering New Jersey concealed carry, so you can get your CCARE so you can get your carry permit out of Jersey. They have a new price for their CCARE. It’s incredible. It’s only $225! You can sign up at WeShoot and get their carry course, and it is great. You’ll get your PTC certification, and they really set the gold standard there at WeShoot. You’ll be able to get re-qualification, too. This is the training that police departments use. They’re also USCCA and NRA backed courses. It’s all combined. This is where you can reserve and get it done, so you can get your carry. Evan Nappen 33:03 Particularly now where we’re knocking out “sensitive places”, as we just did with the Wolford case, which actually impacts New Jersey “sensitive places”. We’re going to see more and more availability of where we can carry, and every carry permit holder is another vote for carry. Probably by now, we are well over 100,000 carry permits in New Jersey. You know, it used to be 600. Literally just 600 carry Page – 11 – of 15 permits. Not 600,000. Six hundred. And now we’re in the 100,000 or damn close, if not over it, of permit carriers. I just showed you how their oppression law was so successful before, and after Bruen, it’s dead. Evan Nappen 33:50 So, go to weshootusa.com. Check out We Shoot, and I know you’ll love WeShoot, too. They have great training, and not only can you get your New Jersey permit certification, your CCARE, but they also offer special training to get that for seniors, 65 or older. They have a special deal for seniors – only $185. You can get your training there. They also offer New York City non-resident carry. They are offering New York City non-resident carry. They have it at a fantastic new low price of $289, and you can get your New York City carry, which also covers New York State non-resident carry permit. They’ll do all the training, and this is really great. Anthony Zalo will be doing this course. It spans two days, and it covers firearm safety and storage, pistol ammunition basics, de-escalation techniques, federal and state law, live fire training. If you’re seeking even more certifications, they offer Maryland Wear and Carry Certification, as well as Washington, D.C. carry permits for just $150 each. On Tuesday, August 4, they will be holding their New York resident and non-resident carry courses. Evan Nappen 35:37 WeShoot also has Civilian Shoot House Training. This is really cool. Their Civilian Shoot House Training, so you can understand how to clear rooms, move with purpose, and make decisions under pressure. This is great for homeowners and parents and security team. Anybody who’s serious about protecting their home and community, check out WeShoot’s Civilian Shoot House Training. They have that scheduled out. You can sign up for Friday, July 31st for that Training. They also have adult CPR / AED and Stop the Bleed, so that you know how to treat wounds. They’re offering that training on Monday, July 20. And for new shooters, they have great training called “From Nervous to Bullseye”. If you’re entry level, you want basic training. Here’s what you can do. They’re also offering weekend classes, and you can “Hit Your Weekend Target” with their great instructors – Grant Gallagher, Tony Zollo, and Lance Hubeny. They’re all there. Sign up at WeShoot. They are a phenomenal resource. We’re talking here about WeShoot in Lakewood. They offer USCCA and Sig Sauer Academy – “Close Quarter Defense Fundamentals. I mean, can you believe this? Just fantastic training. Make sure you check out weshootusa.com. You’ll love the range, you’ll love the pro shop, and you’ll love the people. They are the best. Go to weshootusa.com today, and take a trip down to Lakewood. They are right there in Central Jersey, conveniently off the Parkway. You’ll be glad you did. Evan Nappen 37:40 Let me also shamelessly promote my book, New Jersey Gun Law. It’s the bible of Jersey Gun Law, and you need to get your copy today. Go to EvanNappen.com and get a copy of New Jersey Gun Law. It’ll help keep you from being a GOFU. Hey, we are now celebrating, of course, the 250th Anniversary of the signing of the Declaration of Independence. This is a great moment in our history where that fantastic, earth shattering, world changing, humanity changing, document was signed and began the birth of our wonderful America, the greatest country on earth. I have nothing but reverence for our Founding Fathers and our Founding documents, and celebrate 100%. Page – 12 – of 15 Evan Nappen 38:48 Let me tell you about the author. Of course, the Committee of Five technically authored The Declaration, but the majority of the credit is given to, and I hope you know this, Thomas Jefferson. But let me tell you about how great Thomas Jefferson was. Not just because of his phenomenal presidency, his assertion of our national reputation against the Muslim pirates, the pirates of the day, standing up to them, and also the Louisiana Purchase, and so many amazing things under Jefferson. And, of course, the Declaration of Independence. But let me tell you something else about Thomas Jefferson. I want you to know, when it comes to firearms, Thomas Jefferson was one of us. He couldn’t be more one of us. Thomas Jefferson was one of the greatest gun owning founding fathers to live. Evan Nappen 40:04 And let me read you, especially on the 250th Anniversary of the Declaration of Independence. The man who wrote that and made us so where we are today, we can be proud and free. Listen to some quotes from Thomas Jefferson, specifically about guns. Here’s a great quote from Thomas Jefferson. “No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms.” Yeah, he said that. No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. That’s from Thomas Jefferson in the Virginia Constitution draft of 1776. Here’s another phenomenal quote by Thomas Jefferson. “I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery.” Let that sink in, folks. He preferred dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery. He wrote that in a letter to James Madison in 1787 . Here’s another great quote from Thomas Jefferson. “What country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance. Let them take arms.” That’s right. Enemies, foreign and domestic, my friends. You heard what Jefferson said. Evan Nappen 41:40 “The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes . . . Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.” Pure common sense spoken by Thomas Jefferson in Commonplace Book, quoting the 18th century criminologist Cesare Beccaria. Here’s another quote from Thomas Jefferson. “A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball, and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be your constant companion of your walks.” Let that one sink in, folks. Thomas Jefferson, in his letter to Peter Carr from August of 1785. Evan Nappen 42:27 “The Constitution of most of our states (and of the United States) assert that all power is inherent in the people; and they may exercise it by themselves, and that is their right and duty to be armed at all times. Let all those quotes from Thomas Jefferson sink in. Think about them as we celebrate the 250th Anniversary of the Declaration of Independence and the man that was the chief engineer of that document and how that man viewed our Second Amendment rights. Page – 13 – of 15 Teddy Nappen 43:43 I will also say, like, I don’t know if you did. Did you ever get to go to Monticello? Did you and Mom get to go? Evan Nappen 44:09 Thanks for mentioning it. No, that is on my bucket list, and I’m going there. My wife went. You’ve gone. Teddy Nappen 44:18 No, I didn’t. I didn’t get to go. Evan Nappen 44:20 What? You didn’t either? Teddy Nappen 44:20 Nope. Just Mom. Evan Nappen 44:21 Teddy, you and I have got to go. Teddy Nappen 44:23 Just Mom got to go. That’s why. Evan Nappen 44:25 This is just wrong. I’ve got to go to Monticello. I’ve meaning to get there. And it’s bugging the hell out of me. Teddy Nappen 44:33 If you ever do go there, they have his pistols. His famed pistols that were, I think, gifted to him. (https://www.monticello.org/encyclopedia/firearms) Yeah, his famed twin pocket pistols that were gifts from, I believe it was a pair of Turkish pistols received from General Isaac Zane in place of a monetary bequest. Evan Nappen 45:07 Bequest. He gifted him these pistols. Teddy Nappen 45:11 Okay. Evan Nappen 45:12 Yeah. Teddy Nappen 45:14 It was also kind of interesting that Jefferson loved to go out and do competition shoots. He would do a lot of them, and he was a fairly good marksman. There were marks in his letters showing that he noted Page – 14 – of 15 in his accounts, I won a shooting in one of six, it was a muster with Captain Jacob Moon’s Albany County Militia Company. He lost two to six, but as he grew older, his limited exercise. He moved more to firearms and hunting over his horseback riding. He even had designs, and there was accounting of a double-barreled gun lock that he had drawn. So, there’s various other bits in his accounts. Evan Nappen 46:01 Like I said, he’s one of us, man. One hundred percent. Hey, this is wonderful, an incredibly important part of our heritage and our tradition. Jefferson stands tall. All the Founding Fathers were, of course, gun owners and knew the importance of arms, but Jefferson is special, without a doubt. Jefferson is special. Evan Nappen 46:32 And you know, Teddy, I want to tell you about this week’s GOFU. This is a GOFU that every time in the practice of gun law, there’s something new. Some other GOFU that I’d not even heard about before, and it just blows me away. It constantly gets crazier and worse, and I want everyone to understand this GOFU, which is, of course, a Gun Owner Fuck Up. Where individuals are now experiencing expensive lessons, or have experienced expensive lessons that you can hopefully avoid for free by listening to Gun Lawyer. Evan Nappen 47:16 So, this week’s GOFU concerns the following. We have a couple, a husband and wife, that are not getting along well with one another, and okay, it happens, right? It happens. Well, it ends up where at some point there’s a fight, and like the old kind of comedy issue you’ve seen on TV, where often it’s the woman, it doesn’t have to be, but often is, throws the husband’s clothing or the belongings out the window to get out. That kind of a thing. Well, in this case, apparently his firearms were tossed out onto the lawn. I guess it sends a message as to throwing out things that the other party believes they care about. But whatever. I’m not going to get into the psychology of it. The bottom line is that this takes place. What happens? Well, it ends up where the police get involved. The police get involved because it falls under the so-called banner of domestic violence. Anytime there is domestic violence, police are called in over any claim of domestic violence, and it’s so broad. Remember, domestic violence could be anything, even harassment, which the essence of which is doing something to purposely annoy another. Now, I know none of you have ever purposely annoyed your spouse or your boyfriend or your girlfriend, but if you did, then you arguably committed domestic violence for harassment. Evan Nappen 48:57 Anyway, that can bring the police into your lives, and this is where you get to live the famous saying of Ronald Reagan. “We’re here from the Government, and we’re here to help.” And, of course, that was one of the best, most sarcastic things that Reagan ever said. Because we’re here from the Government and we’re here to help, is of course the exact opposite. And that’s what happened here. The Government gets involved, and both parties are questioned over various allegations. It doesn’t matter what. The bottom line is that the domestic violence forms are filled out where the issue is documented, and the wife is asked, do you want a restraining order? And she wisely says no. This is internal. They’re squabbling, or whatever. She doesn’t need a restraining order. The husband, who related his whole side of everything there too, is asked, “do you want a restraining order? And he wisely said no, as well. Page – 15 – of 15 Evan Nappen 50:11 So, now you have a couple that are trying. They’re going to do whatever, but they don’t want restraining orders. They don’t want the Government in their life. They’re not interested in that. But what happens? The Government files Red Flags, TERPOs, Temporary Extreme Risk Protection Orders on both of them. Neither of them wanted a restraining order. Neither one wanted it, but it didn’t matter. The Government now files to take away both of their gun rights. To take away their guns and put them on a list of extreme risk. This puts you on a database that could even arguably be accessed by TSA or others that you’re a danger. It has farther reaching collateral consequences than just taking guns and taking away your gun rights. Putting you into the court system now to have to individually fight TERPOs, because we’re from the Government and we’re here to help. That, my friends, is the GOFU. Keep it in mind at all times about being from the Government and there to help. Especially on the 250th Anniversary of the Declaration of Independence. Evan Nappen 51:37 This is Evan Nappen and Teddy Nappen reminding you that gun laws don’t protect honest citizens from criminals. They protect criminals from honest citizens. Even Thomas Jefferson knew that. Speaker 3 51:50 Gun Lawyer is a CounterThink Media production. The music used in this broadcast was managed by Cosmo Music, New York, New York. Reach us by emailing [email protected]. The information and opinions in this broadcast do not constitute legal advice. Consult a licensed attorney in your state. Downloadable PDF TranscriptGun Lawyer S5 E297 Transcript About The HostEvan Nappen, Esq.Known as “America’s Gun Lawyer,” Evan Nappen is above all a tireless defender of justice. Author of eight bestselling books and countless articles on firearms, knives, and weapons history and the law, a certified Firearms Instructor, and avid weapons collector and historian with a vast collection that spans almost five decades — it’s no wonder he’s become the trusted, go-to expert for local, industry and national media outlets. Regularly called on by radio, television and online news media for his commentary and expertise on breaking news Evan has appeared countless shows including Fox News – Judge Jeanine, CNN – Lou Dobbs, Court TV, Real Talk on WOR, It’s Your Call with Lyn Doyle, Tom Gresham’s Gun Talk, and Cam & Company/NRA News. As a creative arts consultant, he also lends his weapons law and historical expertise to an elite, discerning cadre of movie and television producers and directors, and novelists. He also provides expert testimony and consultations for defense attorneys across America. 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  Episode 296-Trump Pushes National Constitutional Carry Also Available OnSearchable Podcast Transcript Gun Lawyer — Episode Transcript Page – 1 – of 12 Gun Lawyer — Episode 296 Transcript SUMMARY KEYWORDS Second Amendment, pistol brace, bump stock, Glock ban, iron pipeline, national constitutional carry, gun rights, anti-gun laws, gun safety, Hollywood depiction, firearm training, gun laws, civil rights, gun ownership, gun violence. SPEAKERS Speaker 3, Evan Nappen, Teddy Nappen Evan Nappen 00:18 I’m Evan Nappen. Teddy Nappen 00:21 And I’m Teddy Nappen. Evan Nappen 00:22 And welcome to Gun Lawyer. So, Teddy, what have you brought to the table today? Teddy Nappen 00:33 Well, I’m always amazed by every single time they always try to say Trump’s not doing enough. Like you hear the horseshoe, right? It’s amazing the idea of just, oh, he hasn’t done enough, or they do the goal post move. Where they move it. They say he hasn’t done anything, or they move in and say he hasn’t done enough. I keep hearing this all the time about people with regards to the Second Amendment. They always try to highlight that stupid thing regarding the, what was it? The pistol brace at the time, because the writing on the wall that they try. Evan Nappen 01:16 Well, remember, keep in mind that with the pistol brace originally, NRA was not real keen on them either. You may remember, you know. So, Trump was trying to also go along with what the organizations themselves were doing, remember, because the brace thing was. But what you eventually saw, and what you’re seeing now, just on that is the elimination of the brace being an SBR, and that whole Merrick Garland insanity of having to register pistol braces. They put the reg forward on their, which should be official shortly, getting rid of that completely. We’re going to, on another shows talk about anybody if you happened to register a braced pistol as an SBR, what you need to do. Because that’s all history, and Trump has ensured that it’s now history, and let’s give credit there for that. Page – 2 – of 12 Teddy Nappen 02:35 And they always highlight the bump stock thing. By the way, the writing was on the wall of why Obama wanted to let that through was because they were going to equate ARs to machine guns, and that led to where. Evan Nappen 02:50 That’s right. So, remember the anti-rights, the oppressionists, they always have a game plan. So, their game plan was, look, if we have the bump stock thing going, then we can claim that semi-automatics are like machine guns. Then we can go after them and get a ban on semi-automatics as machine guns. And what Trump was doing politically in that sense was thwarting their political move. Now, if you say, ‘Oh, well, that isn’t.. how do you know that’s their plan? Or that was.. well, I’ll tell you what. If you want to see that as their plan, you could see it in action right now as they ban Glocks. California just banned Glock pistols, and what is your basis for banning Glocks? Oh, well, they’re easily convertible with Glock switches, you see. So, this is always the gambit of the Second Amendment oppressionists. Now we ban handguns that are perfectly legal, the most popular handgun in America, and we ban it, how? Oh, because you can put an unlawful Glock switch, which turns it into select fire. These switches are in and of themselves, just possession of a switch, is the same as possessing a machine gun. The switches are banned! But they use it as the pretext to expand it, and then ban the handguns themselves. Evan Nappen 04:35 You also saw them attempt this with the so-called iron pipeline. Teddy Nappen 04:40 Operation Fast and Furious. Evan Nappen 04:40 They were laying the groundwork for the iron pipeline. They wanted to say, oh, American guns, semi-autos, are going to Mexico to the narco terrorists, and all. And what did they do? They changed the 4473 to ask, are you Hispanic or not? Like, why are they asking that? And then they had multiple rifle reporting on border states. Why are they doing that? And then, of course, they do Operation Fast and Furious, so they could paint the picture to then push a gun ban based on the iron pipeline down south. But lo and behold, they step on their own toes here. We’ll use that word instead. And Operation Fast and Furious blows up in their face because they’re selling the guns themselves to the narco terrorists, and end up killing a federal agent, no less. So, that plan went all to hell. Evan Nappen 05:35 But you see, this is what they do. They lay the groundwork with these things, and that’s really what was going on there, on that. But with this Administration, we’ve never had an administration this pro-Second Amendment rights that it’s ever been president, ever. They’re now saying to California, get rid of that Glock ban or the Justice Department of the federal government is going after California. In other words, we finally have the federal government not pursuing oppression of the Second Amendment, but of enforcing our rights and preserving and fighting for our rights. They did it, and they’re doing it in all different facets. They’re doing it by administrative reg changes, 34 great changes. They’re doing it by Page – 3 – of 12 the litigation. They’re doing it by getting a focus of civil rights and putting the Second Amendment into that category. Evan Nappen 06:40 And now President Trump, just recently at a rally in Pennsylvania, said he wants to see and is pushing for National Constitutional Carry. Now, keep in mind this is beyond national reciprocity. National Constitutional Carry is the ability to lawfully carry your handgun anywhere in the United States with no permission slip. Ending the requirements, in effect, for permits. Or at least having it so that there’s national reciprocity that respects the majority of states that don’t require any permit. So that with National Constitutional Carry, a person who is a resident of a Constitutional carry state can carry, for example, in New York or New Jersey and all these oppression states with no permit, because it will be national. If you think about what the Second Amendment means, the right to keep and bear arms bearing is carrying, and the Second Amendment means that very thing. And that’s why it’s constitutional. Teddy Nappen 08:17 You also have to remember, Dad, like think back to Shaneen Allen. If this law comes into play, that would have avoided that entire BS that she went through. Her only crime was crossing the Franklin Bridge. Evan Nappen 08:40 Without the piece of paper that New Jersey recognizes. That’s right! Think of how many completely law-abiding citizens are turned into criminals, have their life destroyed, forced into a criminal judicial system for exercising a Constitutional right. They weren’t committing any crimes. They weren’t robbing, stealing, raping. No, no, no, nothing. Just, oh, you have a gun, and we’re not recognizing your right in this jurisdiction. That’s why this has to go. That’s why it’s a civil right, and it’s really great to see President Trump pushing it again. Teddy Nappen 09:21 If they were robbing, stealing, or raping, they would just be let off, no bail, no nothing. Evan Nappen 09:26 Well, if they’re an illegal alien, of course. Teddy Nappen 09:30 Yes, of course. Evan Nappen 09:31 And not only that, they would not even cooperate with ICE to have them deported, but that’s separate. Teddy Nappen 09:38 Yeah. Page – 4 – of 12 Evan Nappen 09:38 We’re talking here about law-abiding Americans with rights that are getting oppressed. What’s really interesting is that President Trump is pushing it now, making it an issue. Not just leaving it in the shadows, but making it a specific issue out there. And at the same time, he’s pushing for the Save Act, so we have integrity in our voting system. He’s pushing like never before to get rid of the filibuster. The filibuster is what is stopping the Republican-controlled Congress from being able to pass the agenda that we voted for. It’s because of the filibuster. As it stands now, you need 60 votes, and that lets the oppressors still have power to stop these laws from going through. And you know, if the Democrats ever gained power again, the first thing they’re going to do is get rid of the filibuster. So, cut it out. I didn’t see the filibuster in our Constitution. It talks about majority for passing legislation in each house. Okay, that’s what it is. So, this filibuster thing is a contrivance, and it needs to go. It is time, because we can get these laws through, and we can get the changes that we need on so many fronts, including the Second Amendment rights. It’s very important, critical. Teddy Nappen 11:30 Yeah, and this also comes from this. It’s right an article from MSN. (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-says-administration-is-working-on-nationwide-right-to-carry-legislation/ar-AA26oxMC) When he was unveiling the new aircraft at Andrews Air Force base, one of the attendees asked about it, and he said, “Yep, we’re working on it. That sends it right there, because that puts it in. Not only you just said not to the national spot, but it also had all the gun rights oppressionists jumping up, screaming, no, no, no. Like going, like just immediately. It’s so funny. Evan Nappen 12:07 It’s (Senator) Mike Lee’s bill. (https://www.congress.gov/bill/119th-congress/senate-bill/4013/text) (Senator) Mike Lee has the bill, and they are working on it. This is a major, major law. It’s probably the single most important pro-Second Amendment rights law that we could pass in modern times. First of all, it will have a wonderful effect on reducing crime. We’re facing these criminals that were let loose into our country through four years of Biden and his policies, plus the blue state policies of the revolving door with no cash bails and all that. So, we need to be able to defend ourselves. But it also will make it so that carry is every individual, who chooses to have a firearm to protect themselves, and this will make it much simpler for individuals to do that very thing. Has a vested interest in preserving and fighting for their Second Amendment rights. It will be the biggest game changer that we could look for. Evan Nappen 13:22 Because as we evolve in our Second Amendments, where the base used to be the strongest base of our gun rights was hunters, it really has shifted. There’s less hunting and less hunting lands, unfortunately, and it shifted to a major uptick, tremendous uptick, in firearms for self-defense and personal protection and individual carry. This will solidify it to the ultimate, the ultimate lifestyle of Constitutional carry for all. That’s what we want to see. We will have a safer society. We’ll have a safer country. Individuals will be able to protect their families, their themselves, their loved ones. It is absolutely the best thing we could do for public safety and the protection of our sacred Constitutional rights. Page – 5 – of 12 Teddy Nappen 14:32 I will say, as well, I love just.. I pulled this from Giffords. (https://giffords.org/press-release/2026/06/giffords-condemns-trumps-push-for-national-right-to-carry-legislation/) Gabby Giffords, of course, who is one of the.. you know, out of.. I would say. Would you say Gifford is probably the smallest out of the gun rights of oppressors? There’s still a factor, but out of comparatively, compared to, like. Evan Nappen 14:49 Well, The Trace and Bloomturd and his organization probably has the most influence, but then you know. Teddy Nappen 15:00 They fund each other, and yeah, they do fund them, too. Evan Nappen 15:04 But, you know, the whole thing that also is true is that the anti-Second Amendment rights groups themselves are not really made of that many members. They don’t have anywhere near the passion and the numbers of which there are gun owners in America and guns in America. They like to gloss over that little fact. They’re basically small but well heeled, well financed. Slick and propagandized, and have an agenda of billionaires that they try to jam down the overwhelming majority of Americans’ throats that actually support the Constitution, and particularly the Second Amendment. So, that’s really, I mean, you don’t see it in terms of numbers. Now, they’ll hold rallies or whatever, and they’ll pay people to turn out. They’ll link in with other groups that are Left wing and such to make their numbers appear big. But there’s a tremendous difference between the pro-Second Amendment rights forces people and the anti-Second Amendment rights forces people. Teddy Nappen 16:32 And it’s also they never changed the argument. Because right here, right out of her own quote, concealed carry reciprocity is a dangerously reckless proposal, and would jeopardize the lives of the children, families, and police. People should not have guns who have no training, who have never passed a background check, and would be able to carry concealed weapons in every community, no questions asked. Evan Nappen 17:01 Yes, and that is absolute garbage. The majority of America already has Constitutional Carry. In the majority of states, 70% of the land mass of the U.S., you can carry now with no permit. So, obviously it’s flawed. I mean, look, murder rates have gone down nationally. But, of course, in the Blue cities, where they have the failure to cooperate with the federal government, where crime is out of control, it’s problematic there. But overall, guess what? The incredible decline in violent crime and murder rates corresponds brilliantly to civilian expansion of carry. That’s what you don’t hear. When they talk about how great we’re doing overall in terms of stopping and fighting violent crime and how those statistics show that we’ve improved, it correlates, it follows expansion of our ability to carry, either by shall-issue permit and/or Constitutional Carry. That’s why a national carry will enshrine it and make it the law of the land. We’ll see even better statistics and less people being victims instead of defenders. Page – 6 – of 12 Teddy Nappen 18:42 You always have to go to the fact, and they always say, if it saves one life. How about 2 million to 2.5 million in defensive uses of firearms that have saved lives per year. Evan Nappen 18:54 Right! Teddy Nappen 18:55 Just going off, you can even ignore the correlation / causation factor, and you can just cite to the fact that 2 million lives are saved from defensive uses of a firearm. If they go for the “save one life”, we’ve got to protect the children, yet it saves lives. Just flat out argument to that. But no, they always go to you’re going to be arming criminals and traffickers and lead to more gun deaths. All right. That’s ridiculous. Evan Nappen 19:24 Here’s the bottom line. It’s real simple. You can sum it up real easy. Guns Save Lives. Do you need to write that down? I mean, Guns Save Lives. And unfortunately, the cohorts of the oppressionists is the media. The mainstream, lame stream media that loves to push the agenda of the billionaire elitists that want our rights destroyed and that’s a fact. Guns Save Lives. And when you can, as an individual, protect yourself and your loved ones. Anyone who’s a gun owner knows that feeling of security and safety when you’re trained and know how to shoot and have your own firearm. You know that you can do it. And that is what enshrines it to the person, what puts it right in their heart. They go, yeah, I get it. I get it. Especially individuals who have actually had to use firearms, or they realize the famous saying of “I’d rather have a gun and not need it than need it and not have it”. And those that have needed one and not had it. Yeah, they paid a price, and those that have had it when they needed, it saved lives. Teddy Nappen 20:57 It makes me think back to, I don’t know if you remember seeing this. Do you know who Jamal Bowman is? Mister pull the Fire Alarm, because I can’t open a door. Evan Nappen 21:05 Yeah, right. That guy. Teddy Nappen 21:07 I remember him having a shouting match. It was like a couple years ago. It was him and Massie. He was arguing about, arguing for, more restrictive guns measures. Calling Republicans cowards, and he was screaming, and say, ‘You want more guns, you’re gonna lead to more death. Like, just screaming, screaming that it would cause more death. Screaming, ‘You’re all cowards. You don’t save children. Like, just screaming about it. (https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/democrat-calls-republicans-cowards-tense-exchange-gun-violence-rcna77342) They do not care about the statistics. They do not care about the facts and the logic behind it. They just see weapon bad. Weapon is used by the oppression. Page – 7 – of 12 Evan Nappen 21:46 Wait. You’re telling me that Democrat issues are emotion-based? I find that hard to believe, Teddy. Teddy Nappen 21:53 I know, right. Whoops, sorry. Evan Nappen 21:55 Yeah, at least. Teddy Nappen 21:56 They banned logic in ’84. Evan Nappen 21:58 I guess they did. They did. Well, Teddy, let me talk about our good friends at WeShoot, our favorite range. It’s where you and I shoot and get our training and got our certificates, so that we can carry. WeShoot is a range in Lakewood, New Jersey, and a great facility. They are running an America 250th Anniversary sale. That’s right. This is a pretty cool sale, actually. They are offering 15% off all of their pre-loved firearms. You know what a pre-loved firearm is, right? Fifteen percent off for any of those, and 25% off their Heritage Collection. These are all these guns. There’s tremendously great guns that they have for sales, the 15% off sale across the board. You’ve got to check out what they have at WeShoot. They have an amazing selection and that’s of course on their pre-loved guns. Their Heritage Collection, man, is 25% off, and that is some sweet guns. Let me tell you. The Heritage Collection has, for example, I’ll just tell you about a few. Fox Sterlingworth shotgun, Fox “A” shotgun. You know, we’re talking these beauties. Fox AEs, and all these Richards. W. Richards SXs, you know, they’re the 10 gauge Richards. Fox CES, Parker Brothers, Trojan, the fevers, the nitros. We’re talking all the LC Smiths, Parkers. The classics of the scattergun world, man. The best of the best, and those are 25% off. Evan Nappen 24:17 So, you want to go to WeShoot and get your training there. It’s a great facility with a great indoor range. Conveniently located right off the Parkway, right in Lakewood, New Jersey. Central Jersey. Our ranges are critical. They are a resource. I mean, what good is it if you can’t shoot? If you don’t have any place to shoot? We’re lucky we have a great place to shoot. It’s called WeShoot. You can check out their website – weshootusa.com. Brilliant website with fantastic photography. They treat their customers so well. Teddy and I love WeShoot, and I know you will, too. Check out weshootusa.com. Evan Nappen 25:03 Let me also shamelessly promote my book, New Jersey Gun Law. It’s the bible of New Jersey gun law. It’s over 500 pages. It’s over 120 topics, all question and answer, making it easy, so that you don’t become the next GOFU. New Jersey’s laws are complicated, and it can be very perilous. As a matter of fact, the case law even says, when dealing with New Jersey gun laws, you act at your own peril. Even the courts recognize that the gun laws are perilous. So, to help defeat the peril and manage it, get a copy of my book, New Jersey Gun Law. Go to EvanNappen.com, EvanNappen.com, and get your copy today. You’ll be glad you did, Teddy. What else have you discovered in your travels? Page – 8 – of 12 Teddy Nappen 26:01 So, every time you turn on a TV show or movie, like out of modern Hollywood, you’ve probably seen some anti-gun messaging. It’s always there, some little. Evan Nappen 26:02 Yeah, some subliminal, some obvious. Nonsense. Teddy Nappen 26:12 An individual who is carrying, who ends up making the situation worse, or a kid finds the gun in the house and then shoots himself. These are others, or whatever, it’s always right, Evan Nappen 26:36 Mishandling. Teddy Nappen 26:37 You always see that. So, apparently this stems from Brady United, you know, Brady’s still a thing, apparently. They decided to meet with. This, is right from the NPR website. (https://www.npr.org/2022/06/13/1104594849/hollywood-pledge-onscreen-guns) Two hundred screenwriters, producers, studio executives, talking about responsibility of depicting firearms in film and television. We are partnering with major partners like Paramount, Walt Disney Studios, CBS Studios. To date, an estimated 150 viewers have watched Project Brady has influenced things like from HBO Euphoria – it’s not even cracking anywhere – from people caring about that show to Netflix, Little House on the Prairie reboot. Again, something no one else also isn’t really watching. Just bear in mind, I love how everyone’s screaming about, like, Paramount is like big in with conservatives and Trump. They’ve made some good shows, but they also produced the most woke Star Trek series known to man, where you had a retarded AI who was also a he/she/it. Like it’s that, so it’s that level. Evan Nappen 26:37 They almost covered all the bases. Teddy Nappen 27:23 I know, right? And then, like, there was a gay. Evan Nappen 27:26 I heard they modeled a lot of it after Tim Walsh, right? Anyway. Teddy Nappen 27:56 Well, good luck with that. But yeah, and so they outlined this. Our show gun safety principles. I think they ripped this off of our range principle, but okay. To help Hollywood model safer behaviors around guns. We’re not just changing the story, we’re saving lives. Page – 9 – of 12 Evan Nappen 28:27 Well, you know, okay. What they’re doing here is they love to call every gun rights oppression law is a “gun safety law”. Gun safety to them is just banning guns, banning gun rights, going after in every way they can us and our rights and our guns. They just put it under a banner of safety. So, anytime I hear that they’re promoting so-called “gun safety”, well, gun safety to them is not what gun safety is necessarily to us. Now, if it was honestly showing better gun safety in the media, I’m not against that. I’m all for safe gun handling, but I tell you what. I have an idea better than what the gun rights oppressionists are pushing, where they’re trying to get the writers to write it into the stories. Evan Nappen 29:39 Here’s something very simple that could be done, but they’ll never do it. Here’s what needs to be done. You know, at the beginning of many movies and shows, there are warnings. Warning” contains sexual or smoking. They even warn about, you know, violence. They warn about all kinds of racial stereotypes. They put all these warnings at the beginning. Here’s a warning I want to see on every show and movie before it’s shown. “The following shows improper handling of firearms.” Put it as a warning. Do you know how many times you would see that warning? On every show. And what it would do? It would show America just how bad the entertainment world is, just how bad these shows are for what they show. Anytime a gun is used illegally or improperly, that show should have the warning. “Firearms here are being shown used illegally and improperly.” However, you want to word the warning. Evan Nappen 31:00 Every time that warning would come up, it would send the message. Look who is showing wrongdoing. It’s the media. So, it would go hand in hand with arguably what The Trace and these guys, Brady and all are trying to do. It would go hand in hand with it. They want to promote safety. We’ll put warnings when the unsafety is being shown. I’d love to see that. Look, I don’t want to restrict anybody’s First Amendment. It’s just a warning about what’s coming up. I’m not looking to have any kind of censorship on it. They can show unsafe gun handling all day long, but just put a warning up front that that’s what’s coming. If you can warn about smoking, warn about offensive language, if you can warn about all this other, why not warn about that? Teddy Nappen 32:02 I remember there was a, I think it was either Bloomberg or Everytown who put out after there was a big shooting, and they got a lot of Hollywood actors who were just naming off mass shootings. Someone did a super cut showing them misusing firearms in movies, just to show the hypocrisy. It’s very hilarious. This is just them also running cover because of the violence depicted in movies, because they have that. Not talking about, they don’t talk about that. They want to talk about the gun. But here’s the three principles, just as a reminder. Model responsible gun ownership, especially secure storage. Show the consequences of reckless gun use. What’s reckless? Oh, you know, defending yourself with a firearm. Have at least one conversation during pre-production on the ways guns will be portrayed on screen. And this is most important of all. Limit scenes with children and guns. That right there is important, because you want to. Page – 10 – of 12 Evan Nappen 33:10 Because they want to make the younger generation not have any familiarity or love of firearms whatsoever. It’s not let’s teach how to shoot safely and properly, and enjoy shooting sports, and mature to be able to have the ability to defend yourself and your family. No, no, shut them out of it. Shut them out of it. Get them out of it. We don’t want to have the young being gun owners in the future, and this is how we stop it. Teddy Nappen 33:47 Yeah, and then they highlight their successes. They bring up. I love this one. They bring up Tulsa King. There’s a scene where a character is teaching his girl how to shoot. He’s just going through like the very first rule of gun safety first. Safety always. It’s especially important. Always assume the gun is loaded. Never point anything you’re not intending to shoot. I like how they take credit for just basic range safety. Like we did that. Evan Nappen 34:19 I like, you know, back when America was America, you had great movies like Shane. I mean, one of the greatest scenes in Shane is with Alan Ladd and the young boy, who’s enthralled with him and his firearm. Like any young boy should be. And remember the mom is like, “Oh, I don’t want my son, I don’t want my son having guns and dealing with guns. And what does he say? Marion, a gun is just a tool.” And there you go. One of the, you know, most awesome, pro-Second Amendment rights statement. Making it clear a gun is just a tool, Marion. And it is. It’s a tool for our safety. It’s a tool for our liberty. It’s a tool for our freedom. It’s a tool for our security. That’s the kind of message we love to see. Teddy Nappen 35:17 For me, I like “The River of No Return”. Evan Nappen 35:22 You would like that. Teddy Nappen 35:23 Yeah. Where the guy has his son, who wants to learn how to shoot. He learns, and he saves his dad through back shooting. After he gets. Evan Nappen 35:32 Hey, there you go, man. He saved his dad. Hey, look, didn’t John Wayne in (The Man Who Shot) Liberty Valance kind of do that anyway? In The Shootest, he didn’t want to shoot anybody in the back, but I kind of thought that happened in Liberty Valance. Maybe was not crystal clear, but he definitely ambushed him to save Jimmy Stewart, right? Teddy Nappen 35:52 Yeah, Jimmy Stewart. Page – 11 – of 12 Evan Nappen 35:53 He saved Jimmy Stewart’s ass with that shot. So, yeah, no, but look, what’s wrong with saving lives, and the good guys winning? I mean, that’s nice, you know. Beating the bad guys, not being a victim. Nothing wrong with that. As long as you’re justified and legal, and there you go. That works. Teddy Nappen 36:14 And then this is something I wanted to highlight, though, for people to remember. They got to all these show writers they had, for instance, like all signed this ridiculous letter. It was JJ Abrams, you know, the guy that ruined Star Trek. You have all these actors, producers, and directors signing this Brady show gun safety letter, this open letter. “Guns are prominently featured in TV and movies in every corner of the globe, but only America has a gun violence epidemic.” Okay, cut to the rest of the world. First, already debunked. “The responsibility lies with lax gun laws supported by those politicians more afraid of losing power than saving lives.” There we go. Another one right there. Lax laws. Thinking they’ll save lives. “We didn’t cause the problem, but we want to help fix it.” As America’s storytellers, our goal is to primarily entertain . . .” That’s not true in Hollywood. “. . . but we also acknowledge that stories have the power to effect change.” Evan Nappen 37:16 They’re a propaganda factory is what they are. Teddy Nappen 37:18 Correct. “Cultural attitude towards smoking, drunk driving, seat belts, and marriage equality have all evolved due in large part to movies’ and TV’s influence.” I’m pretty sure people are still drinking and driving. I’m pretty sure people are smoking, but now they’re vaping. So, that’s a whole.. and now, because that, they have to turn it towards vaping. And seat belts, okay, and marriage equality, okay. Now, the point now where they’ve lost. Evan Nappen 37:49 The whole political agenda through their propaganda efforts through entertainment. Hey, Teddy, I want to tell you about a very important GOFU this week. This week’s GOFU, remember, GOFUs are Gun Owner Fuck Ups. These are actual cases. Real deal things that you need to know. These are expensive lessons that somebody else has paid for that you get to learn for free. This week’s GOFU is really something that you may not have considered before, but you really should. If you ride motorcycles and such, make sure that the holster you use is not a clip-on style holster. You know, the kind. Make sure it’s an actual belt looped, so that your holster doesn’t come off while you’re riding your motorcycle. Because particularly susceptible. Evan Nappen 38:55 Now, granted, this can happen in a car, too. In a car, the firearm is going to end up on your floor of your car. But on a motorcycle, if that holster comes off the belt because it’s a clip on, even with the gun in it, or for that matter, if the gun falls out of the holster, you want to make sure your holster securely holds a firearm. You have to make sure the holster is secured to your belt. In motorcycling, with the vibration, the noise, etc., it’s very easy for an individual not to notice it falling off one’s body. You know you’re riding your bike and all that’s going on with the vibration and the road bumping and all these things Page – 12 – of 12 you’re dealing with, and it’s very easy to have that type of clip on holster come off. And then what happens? The gun and the holster fall off somewhere on your ride, and you don’t even realize it. Evan Nappen 40:12 Once you realize that you’ve lost it, you have 36 hours to report it lost or stolen in New Jersey, and this now jeopardizes, potentially, you being able to maintain your gun licenses. And if somebody else gets a hold of that gun, there can be further issues. So, please make sure that your holster is on your belt in a way that it cannot be removed unless you intentionally take it off through the loops. It’s very important. You don’t want to become a GOFU. Evan Nappen 40:54 This is Evan Nappen and Teddy Nappen reminding you that gun laws don’t protect honest citizens from criminals. They protect criminals from honest citizens. Speaker 3 41:05 Gun Lawyer is a CounterThink Media production. The music used in this broadcast was managed by Cosmo Music, New York, New York. Reach us by emailing [email protected]. The information and opinions in this broadcast do not constitute legal advice. Consult a licensed attorney in your state. Downloadable PDF TranscriptGun Lawyer S5 E296_Transcript About The HostEvan Nappen, Esq.Known as “America’s Gun Lawyer,” Evan Nappen is above all a tireless defender of justice. Author of eight bestselling books and countless articles on firearms, knives, and weapons history and the law, a certified Firearms Instructor, and avid weapons collector and historian with a vast collection that spans almost five decades — it’s no wonder he’s become the trusted, go-to expert for local, industry and national media outlets. Regularly called on by radio, television and online news media for his commentary and expertise on breaking news Evan has appeared countless shows including Fox News – Judge Jeanine, CNN – Lou Dobbs, Court TV, Real Talk on WOR, It’s Your Call with Lyn Doyle, Tom Gresham’s Gun Talk, and Cam & Company/NRA News. As a creative arts consultant, he also lends his weapons law and historical expertise to an elite, discerning cadre of movie and television producers and directors, and novelists. He also provides expert testimony and consultations for defense attorneys across America. Email Evan Your Comments and Questions  [email protected] Join Evan’s InnerCircleHere’s your chance to join an elite group of the Savviest gun and knife owners in America.  Membership is totally FREE and Strictly CONFIDENTIAL.  Just enter your email to start receiving insider news, tips, and other valuable membership benefits.   Email (required) *First Name *Select list(s) to subscribe toInnerCircle Membership Yes, I would like to receive emails from Gun Lawyer Podcast. (You can unsubscribe anytime)Constant Contact Use. Please leave this field blank.var ajaxurl = "https://gun.lawyer/wp-admin/admin-ajax.php";

  Episode 295-Bang and Bong… You just got Both Also Available OnSearchable Podcast Transcript Gun Lawyer — Episode Transcript Page – 1 – of 12 Gun Lawyer Transcript – Episode 295 SUMMARY KEYWORDS Supreme Court ruling, Second Amendment, marijuana prohibition, gun rights, NRA, ACLU, Justice Thomas, Commerce Clause, firearm regulation, self-defense, Bruen framework, gun violence, international gun laws, warning shots, New Jersey gun law. SPEAKERS Teddy Nappen, Evan Nappen, Speaker 2 Evan Nappen 00:17 I’m Evan Nappen. Evan Nappen 00:19 And I’m Teddy Nappen. Evan Nappen 00:21 And welcome to Gun Lawyer. Well, just now we just got word of the Supreme Court handing down the ruling in the Hemani case, and this is really quite a startling win. (https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/25pdf/24-1234_g2bh.pdf) Not necessarily because it was a win, but because it was a unanimous win! What we have is the U.S. Supreme Court in a nine to zero opinion essentially determining the unconstitutionality of marijuana creating a gun prohibitor under federal law. So, for these years you’ve had issues, and we’ve talked about it on the show, where folks that had even a medical marijuana weed card, or they used, or they had any kind of history of prior possession/conviction for misdemeanor marijuana. All that has caused just a lot of folks to not be able to exercise their Second Amendment rights. In the past, we actually coined the term from the show, “Bang or Bong, you can’t have both”. Because of how they, they being the Government, how the Government was interpreting this. To the degree where federal dealers were issued memoranda from ATF telling them that they could not sell to these folks that admitted to using all this regarding marijuana and laid out this as enforceable prohibition. Evan Nappen 02:15 And by the way, this is also the thing that Hunter Biden was prosecuted for. Hunter Biden’s gun case is essentially this issue as well. So, we’re happy to say, and not necessarily for any reason because of Hunter Biden, but because it is a win for the Second Amendment. To see a unanimous decision. Let that sink in, folks. Every judge on the Supreme Court agreeing with an enforcement of the Second Amendment. Just that alone, regardless of the issue, is really great to see. Just that. Here there were interesting bed fellows, as they say. We had the lawsuit challenge, etc., the legal action, joined the NRA and the ACLU on the same side. So, we had both the NRA and the ACLU on the same side arguing for this. To not prohibit individuals from Second Amendment rights. So, this is very significant, and it’s interesting. Page – 2 – of 12 Evan Nappen 03:39 Judge Gorsuch delivered the opinion of the Court. In the facts of this case, Hemani used marijuana a few times a week, and because of that the Government claimed that he’s automatically banned from possessing a firearm under federal law. And because Hemani admitted that he owns a gun, despite the ban, the Government was now seeking to prosecute him. To imprison him for up to 15 years and disarm him for life. This case here posed that question, whether the Government’s prosecution of Hemani is consistent with the Second Amendment. A unanimous decision found that it was not consistent with the Second Amendment. So, Teddy, what do you think about this decision? Teddy Nappen 04:40 Well, for me, as soon as this case came out, I had to look. What did Judge Thomas say? Because he’s the funniest of them all. Evan Nappen 04:49 Well, that’s true. Teddy Nappen 04:50 I had to go right to his opinion. And of course, Justice Thomas, being the greatest justice to have ever lived, and the fact that he is an originalist to perfection. Of course, he said we did not go far enough! Particularly, and I love how he writes this. “I agree with the Court that 922(g)(3) violates the Second Amendment as applied to respondent Ali Hemani, and I join it’s opinion in full. I write separately to call attention to another issue: As a matter of both original meaning and this Court’s precedents . . .” It appears to exceed Congressional enumerated power and regulate interstate commerce. He attacks the commerce clause throughout this. He even highlights the fact that the Government, if the firearms possession by the drug user had previously traveled through interstate commerce, the commerce clause does not authorize Congress to regulate or ban possession of any item that has ever been offered for sale or cross state lines. He cites Alderman. His dissent is on the denial of certiorari, where this conversion of congressional authority under the commerce clause to a general police power is sort retained by the states. Evan Nappen 06:12 You see, this is really important, Teddy. Because what Judge Thomas is doing there is he’s going beyond. He’s looking at the power grab, the overreach of the power of interstate commerce. And ever since the expansion of that Wickard versus Filburn. (https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/317/111/) Ever since the expansion of that, it basically empowered the Government, the federal Government, to do anything it wants, as long as they can make some tenuous argument that it somehow affects interstate commerce. And I’m really glad to see that he’s out there, at least as a voice trying to pull back that insane power grab that occurred back under Franklin Delano Roosevelt, Teddy Nappen 06:58 As you’re reading through his opinion, too, he takes a bat directly to the congressional authority. He bashes the commerce clause directly of how. How is it that something travels, like, how does that fall Page – 3 – of 12 under interstate commerce when it’s not traveling between the states? He is going at it hard, outlining each bit case by case, showing the abuse by it. He even highlights how, I love this line, the gun possession statute issues in Lopez is not a regulation of economic activity, but a law to combat “crime and violence”, even at the local level. Literally calls it out. How is this economic activity when you’re just doing this for regulating crime? Evan Nappen 07:48 Oh yeah. Well, you know, in the decision, this is very interesting, they, they being the Court, outline their ruling, and why. And I think you’ll find it very interesting here, where they talk about that Mr. Hemani. He admitted his use of marijuana, and he knowingly possessed the gun in his home, being an “unlawful user of the substance”. And if you look at that, it seems to fit exactly what the law is prohibiting. And what the actual holding of the Supreme Court held that the Government’s prosecution of Hermani under 922 unlawful user provision is inconsistent with the Second Amendment. And here in the holding it actually says the Second Amendment protects the rights of all Americans, but they had that in quotes to keep and bear firearms for self-defense. So, there’s even an affirmation of the right to self-defense. They are citing Heller with that. Evan Nappen 09:15 Though, like most individual rights, it has its limits to determine when the Government infringes on the Second Amendment. The court begins by asking whether the amendment’s terms cover the conduct in question. If so, the Constitution presumptively protects it. That’s citing Bruen. To overcome the presumption, the Government bears the burden. The Government bears the burden of showing its regulatory efforts are consistent with the nation’s historical tradition of firearm regulation. That is the test, and the burden is on the Government to have to show it. The Government need not point to a historical twin or precise historical precursor that’s from Rahimi, that’s the Rahimi case. Instead, the appropriate analysis involves considering whether the challenged regulation is consistent with the principles that underpin our regulatory tradition. The government may reason by analogy. This is where the battle comes in, in our fight for our Second Amendment rights Evan Nappen 10:35 Now, it says further, the Government accepts this framework, and they proceeded to argue from it. So, this is very exciting in terms of the test being applied. The court looking at the Government’s argument of traditional habitual drunkards losing their rights, and the court, through the opinion, just absolutely distinguishes between this marijuana ban and historical precedent concerning habitual drunkards. Then they also put into play about the decision being narrow. And here’s where, Teddy, what you just said about Justice Thomas, he wants it to be broad. But the decision itself says it’s narrow. It does not address efforts to ban addicts or those presently intoxicated from possessing a firearm. Then it also talks about whether individuals convicted of felonies could be prosecuted. So, they tried to contain it narrowly. But if you step back and just look at the big picture in regards to a nine to zero opinion on a gun rights issue, that to me is probably the most outstanding thing about it. We got the whole Court on board. Page – 4 – of 12 Teddy Nappen 12:21 I will say, if you go to Jackson’s “concurrent opinion”, she doesn’t even talk about the case. She literally spends the entire thing bashing Bruen. I was reading through it, and she literally just spends the entire thing in full. She says I write to emphasize my scrutiny. The court applies to the, we adopted Bruen be his “history and tradition metric”, which more rational way of assessing the Constituent’s regulations. Bruen is unworkable, and it creates such a vulnerability of inconsistent, arbitrary application. Oh, like most gun laws? Evan Nappen 13:01 Yeah. Well, keep in mind the politics here. She’s purposely trying to attack Thomas over Bruen. And yet, what she can’t stand is that she’s ruling in favor of the Second Amendment. But in so doing, it means that Bruen is being empowered here. She’s like the computer on Star Trek. She’s going to explode that it’s now affecting the issue of marijuana, and the ACLU is on this side. Yet, how could she actually use, you know, Thomas’s brilliance here, even though it’s what she believes is the right thing to do, but can’t give credit. So, it’s like, you know, she’s just exploding over it. But she still has to side with the full unanimous majority, and that’s why it is that astounding. Because even a justice like her, who is so blatantly politically and hardly viewed as an educated jurist here by comparison to so many of the others on the Court. This is what you see happen. So, it’s pretty good there. Evan Nappen 15:19 Like applying the Constitution instead of, “It’s a living document”, which it isn’t, and start applying that whole. Teddy Nappen 15:41 Fine, just no, just no, fine, fine. No 19th Amendment, got it. Like it’s so ridiculous. So, they only apply it when they choose to. Evan Nappen 15:53 Hey, but even with all that said. It was still nine to zero, in favor of 2A. So, for that we can be happy to see. And of course, we’re now waiting for Wolford, and that is a “sensitive places” decision, which should also be very interesting on how they rule on “sensitive places”. Teddy Nappen 16:14 Do you remember the commemorative for the Heller? The revolver they did. Evan Nappen 16:19 Yes, I have one. Teddy Nappen 16:21 I want, whoever is the top AR maker, I want them to do a commemorative to the case when we finally get the constitutionality on the assault weapon ban, and finally getting those removed. That would be awesome. Like, just seeing that. Who do you think would be making that? Page – 5 – of 12 Evan Nappen 16:39 Yeah, I’m sure there’ll be all kinds of guns. Well, you know, that’s funny. You know I have that Smith & Wesson when Heller came out. Teddy Nappen 16:47 Yeah. Evan Nappen 16:47 And Smith did a limited run of the 38 J-frame Smith and Wessons, and they are engraved on the side with the Heller decision and scales and all. It’s a pretty cool gun, and they came out with it pretty fast, right after the Heller decision. But I actually got Dick Heller himself, the Heller of the Heller decision, to sign the gun. So, I have a Heller commemorative Smith signed by Heller himself. Teddy Nappen 17:23 Don’t you have one for McDonald too, as well? I could have sworn there was a commemorative for that also. Evan Nappen 17:30 Yeah, yeah. I do, yeah. McDonald. But I also have a very collectible commemorative knife, Teddy. It’s a full kitchen knife, and it’s actually signed by Bobbitt. Remember the Bobbitt case? I have a knife that is signed by John Bobbitt there. And what he wrote on the knife, in addition to his name, he wrote “always sleep on your stomach”. Pretty good. Always sleep on your stomach, you know. Signed by Bobbitt. So, it’s a big kitchen butcher-style knife, a big chef’s knife. It’s definitely a great collectible. Teddy Nappen 18:18 I wanted him to write “Mr. Happy Went Missing” from the Weird Al. Mr. Happy. Evan Nappen 18:33 But he wrote: always sleep on your stomach. Okay, if anyone could give that advice, I guess it’s him. So, yeah, well, getting these things signed. Well, Dick Heller signed the gun, Bobbit signed the knife, and I’m not.. Forget it. I’m not going, not doing it, not doing it. So, hey, by the way, Teddy, where’s our favorite ranger that we shoot at? Come on. Teddy Nappen 19:07 Of course it’s We Shoot, obviously. Evan Nappen 19:09 That’s right, we do. We go there. We have a blast, and so will you. WeShoot is an indoor range right in Lakewood, New Jersey. It’s conveniently right off the Parkway. A beautiful facility, top of the line, modern. A great place. Great training, great pro shop, great people. It’s where we got our certifications for our carry, our CCARE certifications, and other training as well. You need to check out WeShoot, WeShoot. It’s at wewhootusa.com. Their website is really great. They have beautiful photographs, and they pride themselves in their photography. Make sure you also check out the WeShoot girls. They always have fantastic firearms that they are displaying. And there are sales and specials and deals. Page – 6 – of 12 WeShoot is just great. So, check out weshootusa.com. You’ll be glad you did. It’s a superb resource, you know. We/ve got to really use and protect our ranges, especially in New Jersey, where it’s so crowded and it’s tough to find really great places to shoot. But WeShoot is there filling an important need in protecting our rights. What good is having a gun if you can’t shoot it, man? So, check out weshoot usa.com. Evan Nappen 20:52 Also, I want to shamelessly promote my book on New Jersey gun law, which, by the way, is called New Jersey Gun Law. You can find it at EvanNappen.com. It’s over 500 pages, 120 topics, all question and answer. It is the guidebook, the key resource to helping you not become a GOFU. I’ve taken great pride in that, and I think you’ll enjoy it, too. Those that have it know its value. It’s designed as your easy-to-use reference to the insanity that is New Jersey gun law. Go to EvanNappen.com. EvanNappen.com. Get your copy today. Hey, Teddy, I know that you have Press Checks, and I think there’s a pretty fascinating Press Check story that you are going to share with us. What is this story? Tell me. Teddy Nappen 21:58 Well, we got our first from. Again, Press Checks are always free. This is from “Not the Bee.com”, Joel Abbott. (https://notthebee.com/article/babe-wake-up-british-tourists-are-starting-to-appreciate-the-second-amendment-?from_social=twitter) So, everyone’s been seeing the World Cup. I don’t typically follow soccer or anything on that, but you see all the Europeans coming in. I love that video of the Japanese tourist who brought trash bags and picked up their trash after their game. Evan Nappen 22:25 They’re very conscientious. That’s very, very good. Teddy Nappen 22:28 I know, as opposed to the Knicks fans who decided to burn down a bus, but whatever. Evan Nappen 22:34 Hey, listen. Mom would approve of the trash bag thing, you know that. Teddy Nappen 22:38 Oh, I know. Evan Nappen 22:40 Even just at our house, if we did that. Teddy Nappen 22:43 And the recycling. Can’t forget about that. Evan Nappen 22:44 That, too. Page – 7 – of 12 Teddy Nappen 22:46 But the one thing that seems to be catching on, because you have all the vloggers and people coming to want to experience America as they’re going to see. They’ve been going to gun ranges and to rent a gun places. Evan Nappen 23:00 I know. Isn’t that great? Teddy Nappen 23:01 They’re appreciating our Second Amendment. Evan Nappen 23:03 It’s actually spreading the understanding to these disarmed, oppressed peoples, and they’re suddenly seeing the light. Particularly, we see the UK folks. They’re like, wait a minute. How did we lose this right? Teddy Nappen 23:20 Yeah. Evan Nappen 23:20 How did this happen? Teddy Nappen 23:22 And it’s very interesting. It’s almost like those videos you always see where it’s the liberals going to the range, and they actually like, oh my right, yeah, you see all these people like, why were they’re waiting for, like, wait, you guys can just do this? They’re always shocked and awe from everything. But one in particular, this was a British guy, Spencer Towering. He does videos. We’ve been totally pacified in the U.K. through the removal of our arms, our right to bear arms. It’s caused a big problem for us. Now our Government is basically turning it into an absolute, tyrannical feminine leadership that is gradually eroding our rights, and there’s really not much we can do about it. Well, there’s one thing you can do. You know, just kind of look to the founding of our nation, and then get some ideas. Or they could look to the risings in Scotland, and try not to, you know, go with, try to not to put the Bonnie Prince on the throne. It didn’t work. Evan Nappen 24:22 You know, the British even went after an IT consultant. Teddy Nappen 24:28 Correct. Evan Nappen 24:29 Because he posed with a gun in the U.S. and posted it on LinkedIn. Page – 8 – of 12 Teddy Nappen 24:34 Yep, just for posing with it. Evan Nappen 24:36 For posint with a shotgun, an 870 shotgun. Teddy Nappen 24:40 Yep. Thirteen weeks of hell he went through for sharing a photo of something that wasn’t even taken in the U.K. This is why. Evan Nappen 24:54 This was pointed out by “Not the Bee”. So, “Not the Bee is a pretty cool aggregate on news sources. And this is. Teddy Nappen 25:06 Frankly, far funnier than the article. Evan Nappen 25:09 “Not the Bee” is real stuff that you can’t believe is actually true when it is. As opposed to the “Babylon Bee”, which is parody. “Not the Bee” has real stories in it that you think should be fake, but they’re not. It’s like unbelievable. But this one here is not as outrageous, to be honest, because this is what makes it so great about having rights, you know, and why we got to protect them. We see what it’s like for the folks that live in countries that they claim to make believe are free when they’re not. I mean, we’re still fighting for freedom here, but I mean to think that, you know, claim England is free. The U.K. is free? That’s a joke. Teddy Nappen 26:00 I’ll point it to you right now. The two you always hyped. I’ve got to highlight this to people all the time. Literally, arresting a woman for thought crime. Evan Nappen 26:09 Right! Teddy Nappen 26:09 Arresting a young girl for fighting off a pedophile with an ax and a knife. Going after her. Proven, by the way, that was another article that came out where he was in fact trying to go after minors. He had two prior accounts. But let’s just say the Labor Party didn’t want to mention that part. And the final bit, and I saw this one. For every officer, they’ve arrested like 20, done 20 arrests for hate speech online, whichever, whatever they make up. Like it’s they’re done. They are so gone. Evan Nappen 26:34 It’s a shame, the formerly Great Britain. But maybe this kind of experience of them seeing America and what it’s about. Not just from a slanted media, but from actually coming here and experiencing America. I mean, just in terms of brisket sandwiches that they’re going crazy for. American food. Page – 9 – of 12 Teddy Nappen 27:11 Even that, like just going into Europe. Anyone ever gone to Europe? You turn on the news, and imagine your only news station was CNN and MSNBC. That’s it. Yeah, that is all they have. They have the state-run everything and news networks. There is no alternative voice. There’s no alternative tech. They ban Rumble and other outlets. So, they can just control the media, and this is what it leads to. Just authoritarian states. Evan Nappen 27:35 It’s crazy. So, I was looking at this, and you also indicated to me about kind of a crazy international story, Teddy, Teddy Nappen 27:56 Yes. Let’s just say, you know, at times like this, you should buy a holster. This was in Brazil, where a female suspect, when she was stopped by the military police from Goaz, carried out a body search. Evan Nappen 28:17 Now, this is in Brazil, right? Teddy Nappen 28:19 In Brazil Evan Nappen 28:19 In Brazil. And this is an actual story that is from a “legitimate” news source, right? What’s the source? Teddy Nappen 28:28 Yeah, it’s right from the Daily Star. (https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/moment-female-suspect-pulls-loaded-37287603) Evan Nappen 28:31 Yeah, okay, and they even have video. They’re showing reports. So, this is actually legit. This is not a parody or a joke? What happened here with the woman? Teddy Nappen 28:42 The officers located the pair, carried out a stop and search. They showed the armed passengers struggling to remove the firearm from inside her “intimate area”. Physically trying to pull out a loaded pistol from her vagina. Evan Nappen 28:58 And Teddy, this is not small. They show the gun, and it’s the actual firearm, folks. This is the gun, and they even name the gun, a Taurus 92. That is essentially the Beretta M9, you know, but made by Taurus, a Taurus 92. Basically that 15 to 17 shot, depending on the size of your mag, and that you don’t live in New Jersey. A full size Taurus 92. Or also our military carry gun until the SIG replaced it of the Beretta M9. That full size nine. She pulled it out. How did she? Ouch! Page – 10 – of 12 Teddy Nappen 29:51 You know, I don’t even know how that happened. I don’t think Taurus and Victoria Secret should have partnered up for the Victoria concealed. Evan Nappen 30:02 And I think they mentioned that it got stuck. It was stuck. Teddy Nappen 30:05 Yes, it was stuck. Evan Nappen 30:07 It was stuck, and I can imagine why it was stuck, considering the size of a Taurus slash Beretta 92. Teddy Nappen 30:15 Yeah. Evan Nappen 30:15 And it was loaded as well. Teddy Nappen 30:18 What she should have done was got some rem oil, and that would have helped solve it. Evan Nappen 30:22 Well, you know, New Jersey has a requirement for your holster to have to cover the trigger guard and the frame and all that. Technically, she might actually have been in compliance if she was under New Jersey gun law, given the requirements for a holster. I don’t know. Teddy Nappen 30:41 Well, it has to cover the majority of the firearm and the trigger. So. Evan Nappen 30:49 I mean, this was pretty crazy. Teddy Nappen 30:53 Yeah, pretty crazy. Evan Nappen 30:54 But it makes sense in Brazil that there would be a Taurus, since they’re made in Brazil. So, those would be a Brazilian gun. Teddy Nappen 30:56 You know, I’ll give Taurus credit for the gorilla ad campaign that they. Page – 11 – of 12 Evan Nappen 31:06 Well, Taurus makes other guns, like the Judge. You know, the Judge, the Raging Bull. She didn’t do a Raging Bull. At least she didn’t do the Raging Bull. I mean, it’s bad enough with the Taurus 92. Teddy Nappen 31:21 It might have been easier with a Public Defender, to be honest. Evan Nappen 31:24 Right. That’s what she’s gonna need now. After putting a Taurus, being caught with a Taurus 92 there carrying, carrying illegally, no less inappropriately. Now, she’s going to need a public defender to defend her possession of a Taurus. Teddy Nappen 31:43 and a gynecologist. Evan Nappen 31:46 Uhuh, maybe she could call the consulate. I don’t know what’s going to happen there. That’s a crazy, crazy story. But hey. You know, just think if she had a North American Arms mini revolver or something, that you know, but a Taurus 92. Oh man. Teddy Nappen 32:05 I love the mindset of like, okay, this is a good idea, right? Just on the impracticality of like, okay, if I’m ever like, you know, the deal goes bad, and I need to draw this quickly. Evan Nappen 32:25 I don’t know what. Yeah, where? And then if she was hiding it up there, why did she surrender to the police when she was hiding it? If that was hidden, I mean, do they? I don’t think. Teddy Nappen 32:39 I think at that point she was just looking for the excuse, because it was probably just had enough. Evan Nappen 32:44 This just has got to go. Here, just take it, take it. Oh boy. Well, Teddy, that is definitely something to consider in the news on carry, carry news, in terms of method. Now, we have the GOFU, which is a Gun Owner Fuck Up. Now, I think this last, the last story might qualify as a GOFU, but we need to bring it down to a little bit more of a commonality of things that often happen, and that we often see. That are mistakes made. Teddy Nappen 33:27 Too many times. Evan Nappen 33:28 Too many times. One of the things we want to really be clear as to a GOFU here is the warning shot. Warning shots are basically mythology. You should not be firing warning shots, because the firing of a Page – 12 – of 12 gun is essentially what’s construed as the use of deadly force. If you’re using deadly force, you have got to be justified in using deadly force. So, we do not in any way recommend the warning shot. In New Jersey, the discharge of the firearm without lawful purpose is an automatic virtual per se felony, as Murphy’s new law has declared it essentially. So, you have the discharge law. Then you have the issues of undercutting your own arguments for use of force. If it was a threat that was justified in using deadly force, why are you firing your firearm without using it to stop the deadly force? Where you feel you can fire it as simply a warning, is it that imminent danger, or is it not that imminent? There’s just so many downsides and negatives to warning shots. Evan Nappen 34:59 Plus where is the round going? There are cases where you hear, “oh, it was a warning shot, and that’s why I hit them. You’re trying to excuse either the bad aim or whatever under some guys, a warning shot, not a good idea. So, make sure you get your training. Make sure you learn the rules on the use of deadly force. It’s critical that you do that. You can really get jammed up if you don’t understand that dynamic. It’s critical, and it is often not intuitive because of how bad these things are shown on television all the time. Television is not a good education source for learning when you can and can’t use deadly force. If we’re talking about made-for-TV dramas and TV shows and movies, and all that, not a good idea to learn your gun law from there. Evan Nappen 36:04 This is Evan Nappen and Teddy Nappen reminding you that gun laws don’t protect honest citizens from criminals. They protect criminals from honest citizens. Speaker 2 36:14 Gun Lawyer is a CounterThink Media production. The music used in this broadcast was managed by Cosmo Music, New York, New York. Reach us by emailing [email protected]. The information and opinions in this broadcast do not constitute legal advice. Consult a licensed attorney in your state. Downloadable PDF TranscriptGun Lawyer S5 E295_Transcript About The HostEvan Nappen, Esq.Known as “America’s Gun Lawyer,” Evan Nappen is above all a tireless defender of justice. Author of eight bestselling books and countless articles on firearms, knives, and weapons history and the law, a certified Firearms Instructor, and avid weapons collector and historian with a vast collection that spans almost five decades — it’s no wonder he’s become the trusted, go-to expert for local, industry and national media outlets. Regularly called on by radio, television and online news media for his commentary and expertise on breaking news Evan has appeared countless shows including Fox News – Judge Jeanine, CNN – Lou Dobbs, Court TV, Real Talk on WOR, It’s Your Call with Lyn Doyle, Tom Gresham’s Gun Talk, and Cam & Company/NRA News. As a creative arts consultant, he also lends his weapons law and historical expertise to an elite, discerning cadre of movie and television producers and directors, and novelists. He also provides expert testimony and consultations for defense attorneys across America. Email Evan Your Comments and Questions  [email protected] Join Evan’s InnerCircleHere’s your chance to join an elite group of the Savviest gun and knife owners in America.  Membership is totally FREE and Strictly CONFIDENTIAL.  Just enter your email to start receiving insider news, tips, and other valuable membership benefits.   Email (required) *First Name *Select list(s) to subscribe toInnerCircle Membership Yes, I would like to receive emails from Gun Lawyer Podcast. (You can unsubscribe anytime)Constant Contact Use. Please leave this field blank.var ajaxurl = "https://gun.lawyer/wp-admin/admin-ajax.php";

  Episode 294-AG Green-lights Red Flag Also Available OnSearchable Podcast Transcript Gun Lawyer — Episode Transcript Page – 1 – of 14 Gun Lawyer — Episode 294 Transcript SUMMARY KEYWORDS Gun Lawyer, New Jersey, ERPO, gun confiscation, due process, public awareness campaign, gun safety, Second Amendment, red flag law, wellness check, gun rights, gun violence, civil rights, gun storage, gun laws. SPEAKERS Speaker 2, Evan Nappen, Teddy Nappen Evan Nappen 00:17 I’m Evan Nappen. Teddy Nappen 00:19 And I’m Teddy Nappen. Evan Nappen 00:21 And welcome to Gun Lawyer. So, Teddy, what have you discovered in your travels? Teddy Nappen 00:30 Well, first off, you can stop pestering me. I finally watched Project Hail Mary. Evan Nappen 00:36 I love that movie. It was fun. Didn’t you like it, man? Teddy Nappen 00:40 I thought it was. I will give it credit for a movie that’s almost three hours long. You stay. You don’t want to like check your phone or anything. You’re actually very engaged. And I was like. Evan Nappen 00:51 True! Teddy Nappen 00:51 The last 40 minutes, I’m like, okay, everything’s solved, what’s left for plot? And then they actually made it more interesting. Evan Nappen 00:59 Yes! Don’t, don’t spoil it for people. Teddy Nappen 01:01 No, no spoils. Page – 2 – of 14 Evan Nappen 01:02 It’s a good one, and it is a very interesting statement about Government. Teddy Nappen 01:12 I was thinking also Stoicism. Evan Nappen 01:14 Yeah, yeah, yeah. They did a great job. I really enjoyed it. So, anyways. I love talking about movies. However, this is Gun Lawyer, man, and we talk about important New Jersey. Teddy Nappen 01:32 Fine. Evan Nappen 01:33 And beyond the borders of New Jersey. Teddy Nappen 01:38 We’ll open with this: the Attorney General’s a jerk. Evan Nappen 01:42 Wait a minute! Don’t go disparaging our beloved Attorney General. But why are you not happy with what the Attorney General has done? Teddy Nappen 01:51 Well, I love when they’re advertising, effectively legalized swatting, in this latest article. Right from the Attorney General’s Office. ” Attorney General Davenport, Office of Alternative and Community Responses launches gun safety public awareness campaign”. (https://www.njoag.gov/attorney-general-davenport-office-of-alternative-and-community-responses-launch-gun-safety-public-awareness-campaign/) I want to meet the marketing team that comes up with these titles. Evan Nappen 02:14 Which always, if it’s Gun Safety Public Awareness Team, let me guess. They’re using their office to promote citizen self-defense so that citizens are no longer victims, but can defend themselves against criminals, right? Isn’t that what they’re promoting? And helping citizens to understand their use of force and self -defense, and complete dedication to the Second Amendment, right? Am I correct? Teddy Nappen 02:41 I think you forgot this is with New Jersey, but yeah. Evan Nappen 02:45 Oh, what did they do instead? Tell me. Page – 3 – of 14 Teddy Nappen 02:47 Oh, so from the article that they put out, Attorney General Davenport of the office has launched a multi-year public awareness campaign to raise awareness about the life-saving potential of New Jersey’s Extreme Risk Protection Orders (ERPOs). Evan Nappen 03:06 Ah, the Red Flag. Teddy Nappen 03:07 Wow! Evan Nappen 03:07 So, they believe that it is life saving. Try life destroying! If you’re a gun owner and you get hit with one of these ERPOs, as we talked about on a prior show, simply talking to Chat GBT led to this. Where not only were the guns seized, not only is your house searched, but you’re taken away for a “wellness check”. And with his inability to give a urine sample, they shoved a catheter up his penis. All over the wonderful ERPO situation. Isn’t that great? How that all works out. So, there’s a lot of downside, unless you don’t consider forced catheterization up your penis, a downside. I don’t know. Today you don’t know. But these are the kind of things that can come from ERPOs and wellness checks. It’s just astounding. Astounding. Teddy Nappen 04:19 What is astounding is I love how they twist it. Just reading the article, you can feel it. I always go back to that line from “Untouchables” – “Let’s do some good.” They actually think this is going to solve problems. Or right here from the Attorney General. ERPOs are a proven tool for preventing tragedies. How do I know? I pulled it out. They didn’t actually say that. We are committed to using all the tools at our disposal. Evan Nappen 04:52 This is what they put out. But the reality of it is, it’s a tool for disenfranchisement of Second Amendment rights, and it’s a tool of confiscation of guns. It is a tool of gun rights suppression. It is designed for that purpose. There is no due process up front. These are granted ex parte. The person who is served with the ERPO has no clue that it’s coming their way, has no opportunity, before the damage is done to talk or speak or make their case to the judge. This is just gun confiscation in its rawest form with benefits. And the benefits are taking you away for a so-called “wellness check”, while you’re at it, to search and seize giving them the opportunity to review your guns, to take your guns, to search your house, to invade your Fourth Amendment rights as well. All done under this guise. Evan Nappen 05:40 This is something we in the firm here deal with these all the time, and the public awareness campaign is designed to get more people to jump on this. No matter how weak the claim is. No matter whether it’s for reasons that are unproven. It doesn’t matter! They want these ERPOs, which, when they initially issued, are called TERPOs, Temporary Extremist Protection Orders. Only after the issuance of the TERPO do you finally get a hearing where you get to try to fight to challenge it from becoming a final, Page – 4 – of 14 what we call a FERPO. And if it takes place in Burlington or Bergen County, then you, of course, are getting a BURPO. I’m just kidding about that. They don’t call them BURPOs, but it is a pretty bad, rotten, terrible law. It is the most extreme ERPO law in the country, and it is just rights violation from the get-go. Teddy Nappen 07:32 Well, also, if you’re going through the article, they’re talking about the public awareness campaign they’re going to be doing. They say the ERPO awareness is leading up to the National Gun Violence Awareness Month in June. I thought June was also Pride Month, but you know they kind of go hand in hand with the recent mass shootings. It’s one of those. Evan Nappen 07:58 It’s like National Brotherhood Month. Be glad we don’t celebrate it the rest of the year. Teddy Nappen 08:04 I know. You know what? Evan Nappen 08:05 That’s the old Tom Lehrer joke. Teddy Nappen 08:07 You know what? I’m very aware of the gun violence. That’s why people want to be armed to defend themselves, but continue. Then they go on about using like billboards, bus shelters, radio platforms. Oh, by the way, everything will be in Spanish, too. They were very bold in that, and they made it very clear it’ll be in English and Spanish. So, okay. Evan Nappen 08:30 Well, the propaganda that gets generated out of New Jersey is intense, and it is going to create more and more confiscations and misery for law-abiding gun owners and their gun rights. That’s the reality of what is going on. They have these very cute images on this article. I see where they are going to promote this operation, and it’s like they’re meme articles. Because of an ERPO, they’re still here. They show two people, then they have another one. Because of an ERPO, he’ll graduate in June. Really? Then there’s another one. Learn the facts about ERPO. Stop gun deaths. Need to talk. . . blah blah blah. Evan Nappen 09:27 Okay, you know what? We could do our own memes here. You know, we could have, because of an ERPO, this person, this law-abiding gun owner, just had their life ruined, just had their home invaded, just had their family heirloom guns seized, just had to go through an expensive court process just to get back to square one. Because of an ERPO, the person was taken in for a completely unnecessary wellness check, and had medical procedures done to them against their will. Because of an ERPO, they just have a big dick pic with a catheter in it, and say, because of an ERPO, I was forced to endure this. How about that for a nice image? You know, this is what reality is when you’re in the practice. You see these laws and what they actually do to people, and what doesn’t get told is what I’m telling you Page – 5 – of 14 now. The actual effect of it. Not this fluff and propaganda and claims being made that are not how we have experienced ERPOs in the practice of law. There’s an extreme risk protection website, Teddy, by the way. (https://www.njoag.gov/erpo/) Teddy Nappen 10:53 Yeah, they have the link. Evan Nappen 10:53 It talks about ERPOs, and it has a Q and A in it. Let’s take a look at the questions, the Attorney General’s answers, and what I think are the real answers. “Is ERPO the same as a ‘Red Flag’ law?” It’s very similar to what a lot of people know as Red Flag law that exists in other states, even among states that use the name ERPO. There are some technical legal differences. Be sure any information you get about ERPOs is specific to New Jersey. Yes, the similarity ends with New Jersey not having any due process upfront. It’s not just a Red Flag law. It’s a bright Red, no due process upfront law. Other states that may have Red Flag laws do it where you get due process up front before the order is even issued. Not in New Jersey. So, yeah, it’s different. It’s different in an extremely gun rights suppression manner. “Why are ERPOs needed?” Well, an ERPO is an immediate step that can be taken to stop a violent situation before it starts, by temporarily removing firearms from a person who’s at risk of harming themselves or others. Evan Nappen 12:10 Yeah, it’s also an immediate step that can be taken to SWAT somebody and an immediate step that can be taken when information is misconstrued. It’s also an immediate step that can be taken without even truly determining whether there is an actual risk of harm to oneself or another, because the one person they’re concerned about never gets an opportunity up front to actually explain whether there is or isn’t such a risk. “Why do people file for ERPOs?” Because they’ve seen warning signs that someone close to them is at high risk of using a firearm to harm themselves or others. Filing a petition for an ERPO provides safety for everyone involved and gives the person in crisis an opportunity to seek help. Really? Well, so-called warning signs, again not evaluated up front, high risk, again not evaluated up front with any input from the person who becomes the victim of this ERPO. Filing a petition for ERPO provides safety for everyone. No, it actually doesn’t provide safety for everyone. In fact, it endangers law-abiding gun owners. There are cases on record, Teddy, about individuals being swatted over false ERPOs, and they end up getting killed by police because they don’t even know what’s going on in this raid. They had no clue, right, Teddy? Teddy Nappen 13:42 It’s one of those things that’s very disgusting, just the very insidious nature of this. It is legalized swatting, and there’s no way about it. Like, you can just make something up, say someone said something or did something, and they’ll hand them out like candy. Then you get your life destroyed, just going through the process. And I love, I love the article. Their whole thing in it, where they’re saying we need to dispel the myths. The whole, yeah, dispel the myths. Page – 6 – of 14 Evan Nappen 14:16 To create an entire myth about what it is. “What’s a temporary ERPO?” A judge can issue a temporary ERPO if they believe the at-risk person is an imminent threat to themselves or others. Isn’t it amazing that a judge can do this, believing the at-risk person is an immediate threat to themselves or others with never speaking to the so-called at risk person. Never talking to them in advance. And a TERPO is in effect until the hearing for a final, which is typically scheduled within 10 days. And let me tell you, yeah, there’s a railroading, after your life has been turned upside down, of the hearing on the final having to take place in 10 days. After all the damage has been done, after your house has been raided, after you’ve been forced into a wellness check, after you’ve had your property seized. And do you think it’s cared for real well when it’s seized? After you’ve had this entire ordeal, then within 10 days of it, you’re supposed to have a hearing. Are you ready for that hearing? You don’t even know what hit you. How are you going to be prepared and do that? It’s railroading you into a FERPO, instead of giving due process up front on the TERPO. Teddy Nappen 15:37 The article tries to paint it like the court judges may issue them after carefully reviewing the individual circumstances, and prompted by the petition filed by a relative, household member, or law enforcement officer. The ERPO is issued only after several factors are considered. Whether they have been arrested, charged, convicted, disorderly persons, domestically. Evan Nappen 16:01 One of those factors, Teddy, as we’ve reviewed. One of the factors is has recently acquired a firearm. That’s actually a factor for an ERPO. That you’ve gotten a gun, that means that you got a pistol purchase permit and got a gun, or went to the gun dealer and bought a gun. That’s now an ERPO factor, as a fact to take your gun, is that you just got a gun. It’s literally a factor in the law. Teddy Nappen 16:27 Well, the article ignores that factor. Gee, I wonder why? Evan Nappen 16:31 They don’t list all the factors, because they’re so outrageously vague and unbelievable. And again, done ex parte. “What is a final ERPO?” Before a final ERPO is issued, this is all from their Q and A, a person at risk will have a chance to present evidence and testimony to the judge. If the judge believes they’re immediate threat of ERPO, so what does it say? Before the final. That’s the only time you’re going to get your chance is after the TERPO, the temporary order has issued. “How long does a final ERPO last?” It stays in effect until the person who filed the petition or the person at risk asks the judge to end it. If the at-risk person is seeking to end the order, they must prove to the judge they’re no longer a danger to themselves or others. So, the burden of proof switches to the victim of the ERPO. The person whose rights have just been taken away from them and had their life turned upside down. The burden is shifted for them to have to prove, in effect, their innocence. Prove they’re no longer a danger. Go ahead and prove the negative. Good luck with that. Page – 7 – of 14 Evan Nappen 17:47 “What information goes into the petition?” You’ll need to provide specific information about dangerous behavior or threats you’ve witnessed. If the person owns any firearms, provide all information you may know about firearms they own or have access to. So, now you have the ratting out, the giving of the information, the revealing of any firearms, so that they may be confiscated. Backdoor gun confiscation. Let’s have an entire propaganda campaign designed to do this. Even in their Q and A, all the gun information goes. “Does it cost money to file?” No, there’s no filing fee. There’s actually something you can do in Nwe Jersey that they won’t charge you for, and that’s if you aid and abet New Jersey in the seizure of guns in the disenfranchisement of an individual’s gun rights. They won’t charge you for that. Isn’t that nice of them? Evan Nappen 18:47 “Is the person arrested or taken into custody?” No, but they will eventually be required to appear in court. Ahh, let’s talk about that. Person arrested or taken into custody? Well, when they do the combo with the wellness check, you’re taken in. And they say, if you don’t voluntarily go, we’ll make you go. Oh, we just searched your home for guns, and we found that one of your magazines holds 11 rounds instead of 10. You’re getting arrested. Or any other condition that they want to turn into criminality, you’re going to be arrested and taken into custody. And if there’s any type of other allegations made, you’ll face those charges. Evan Nappen 19:37 Remember, this isn’t just done in a vacuum. So, it’s extremely misleading to say a person isn’t arrested or taken into custody when very often that’s exactly what happens. We’ve seen it because of the collateral damage that occurs from the TERPO. “Does an ERPO go on a criminal record?” No, it’s a civil matter, not a punitive punishment. You see, they don’t consider taking your guns and taking your gun rights punitive or punishment. No, this is just civil. Its purpose is to give the person in danger of harming themselves or others, an opportunity to address the crisis. You see, this is being done for your own protection. We’re doing this just for you, gun owners. We’re doing it to help you, because we love you so much. It’s not punitive at all. Evan Nappen 20:34 Except you go into a database that declares you to be an extreme risk. Do you think being in that database is going to help you get a job? Do you think being in the extreme risk database that ERPOs put you in is going to be helpful to you? Do you think that’s going to help you travel, let’s say on an airplane? Do you think it’s going to help you anytime a background check is done on you? So, does it have an actual criminal record? No, because there’s no criminal conviction. So, it would not be a criminal record. But notice it doesn’t say, do you get a record? Because the answer to that misleading way it’s presented is yes. You’re damn right. You will have a record. You will have a record of having an ERPO and being put in a database and on a list of being an extreme risk. But they don’t bother mentioning that in their Q and A. Teddy Nappen 21:39 Oh, this is what happens. Page – 8 – of 14 Evan Nappen 21:41 Go ahead, Teddy. What? Teddy Nappen 21:42 Well, what I was going to say is one thing that does point, like jump at the article with me. All this can be made possible from a competitive grant award from the “Byrne State Crisis Intervention Program” (SCIP) Grant which is administrated through the U.S. Department of Justice’s Bureau of Justice Assistance. (https://www.njoag.gov/attorney-general-davenport-office-of-alternative-and-community-responses-launch-gun-safety-public-awareness-campaign/ – last paragraph) So, the insidious nature of SCIP. Oh, you know what happens whenever you get thrown in, because you think, oh, he may have said he said something like, oh, he’s had some bad thoughts. We need to get him into the crisis intervention unit. He needs to be evaluated. So, the doctors who evaluate you, who think you’re crazy or think you’re extreme, throw you into the nut house as well. That same group is pushing for Red Flag. Amazing! Evan Nappen 22:27 They are, because it goes together with it. And then it says, “What happens to firearms when an ERPO is approved?” Firearms, ammunition, and license to purchase, own, and carry must be surrendered to law enforcement. What also happens is you get put on the ERPO list. And if you fail to have guns turned in, if you fail to file that order, you can be criminally charged for contempt. Then you become a prohibited person after that to ever possess firearms and ammunition, very similar to being a convicted felon. But notice none of that is explained either. Then it says, “When are firearms returned?” When a judge terminates the order. Well, let me just tell you right now, that’s not in the law. We have cases on this right now. You can go in to court, and you can win a TERPO. But the TERPO was defeated after your guns were seized and you went through all that. There’s nothing in the statute that orders the guns themselves returned. So, if the Attorney General is now saying that firearms are returned when the judge terminates the order, great! Because we have cases right now where this very answer and question I want to explain why it hasn’t happened to our clients. Because it’s not in the law! And fighting to get it back afterwards, after you win the TERPO, where a FERPO is not granted, it’s exactly what a client we had on a couple shows ago. He talked about that very thing, that very problem. They asked, How is ERPO different? Go ahead, Teddy, what? Teddy Nappen 24:20 Well, I was going to say is the thing that if you kind of go through all this, looking at like the article, what they’re talking about, they are just doing all their best to muddy the waters. Trying to like no, no, no, no, it’s perfectly fine. We’re just going to take the firearms away, and then it won’t be a problem. Then if everything’s calm and the State has deemed you not an extreme risk. What do we mean by that? Well, we’ll determine that from a political judge. Evan Nappen 24:54 Ask any gun owner that’s gone through this, and they’ll tell you it’s a nightmare. This is designed to create more nightmares for New Jersey gun owners. Here, “Do ERPOs stop violence?” Evidence suggests ERPOs are an effective violence prevention tool, particularly in cases of suicide or mass shootings. Suggests it. They don’t prove it. Instead we have tremendous violation of due process rights Page – 9 – of 14 in this “suggestion” of what people go through. No actual hard evidence that it even accomplishes what it is intended to do. And of course, potential suicide or mass shootings. Well, of course, if someone’s hell bent to kill themselves, last I heard, a gun wasn’t the only way to do it. If the person is determined to engage in criminal acts, a piece of paper will not stop that person. So, who is it really affecting? The law-abiding citizens. They’re the ones who pay the price. Evan Nappen 26:04 And then last question here, “What happens if the petition for an ERPO gets denied?” Now, notice this is really interesting. The last question is, what happens if ERPO gets denied? It says, if the municipal court denies a petition for a TERPO, the person who filed it can request an immediate hearing in Superior Court. If the Superior Court judge is the one who denied the TERPO or denies the final, the person who filed can appeal to the Appel Division within 45 days of the denial. Notice what they don’t say. What happens if a petition is granted? Do they tell those people that they have a right to appeal? Do they mention the appellate rights of the victim of the ERPO? No, they don’t. They only tell the person who filed the ERPO of their appellate rights. Evan Nappen 26:58 Well, let me tell you. If you are hit with these, you have appellate rights. You have the right to challenge it and appeal it. They don’t mention that on their website. It’s supposed to be so informative. To cut through the so-called misunderstandings and misinformation out there about ERPOs, but they don’t even tell you about the appellate rights for those that suffer under this non-due process red flag law. New Jersey is probably the most extreme example of ERPO in the country. If not the most extreme, then tied for it. If somebody else is out there that I’m not aware of, that has copied New Jersey’s model. Teddy Nappen 27:58 I’m just waiting for them to up the ante, where they’re going to combine it with the gun owner gulag, where we’re not only going to arrest you, we’re not just going to ruin your life and take your firearms, we’re going to hold you until trial, and the hearing also takes six months. I’m just, it comes back to the old article that you first wrote, just death penalty to gun owners. They’re at that stage. The left hates us that much, that that’s where they would see the justice, like when it comes to the justice. Evan Nappen 28:24 They’re never satisfied, and it’s always take, take, take. Then the amount that they want to take, they call a compromise. And then they come back for more “compromise” where they take more. Then they say, well, that’s a great compromise, now we want more. It’s never giving. When do you see rights expanded and respected? When do you see rights restoration to New Jersey gun owners in the broader Second Amendment sense? Only when they’re forced to do it kicking and screaming, such as with carry permits, because of the Bruen decision. They knew they had to issue them, so they created the Carry Killer Law. So, yeah, we’ll issue permits, and we’ll try to make it as impossible as we can for you to actually use the permit by creating 25 “sensitive places” in an absolutely bizarre and confusing matrix. Create all these other requirements upon anybody who chooses to have a carry permit. So, it’s always take rights, take rights, take rights. And even when they’re forced by case law to have to restore freedom, they try to find some other gambit to take freedom yet again. This is the pattern of a gun rights suppression Government. That’s what we’re dealing with here, and that’s what we see. Page – 10 – of 14 Teddy Nappen 30:05 I’m trying to remember. It was a comic artist, like, where he was a free speech advocate, Frank Miller, and there’s a famous comic image that he painted where it was speaking out against the censorship going on in the comic book industry. It’s a picture of a woman, and there are band aids covering her eyes, covering her ears, and then one about to go on her mouth. The hands with the hand blob going, this last one’s for your safety. It just, it’s that insanity twist of believing that this will actually make the community safe. Actually thinking that this will solve the problem when all it does is exacerbate it and good luck to every actual career criminal. If that’s quote unquote red flag, we’re Evan Nappen 30:57 And that’s if we are giving them the benefit of the doubt. That they’re actually doing it because they really want safety and are simply misguided or wrong. But I don’t believe that after practicing gun law for over 40 years in the state of New Jersey. I believe it’s an agenda. It’s an agenda of gun rights oppression, and its foundation is simply that of being evil and wanting to go after rights. I don’t give them the benefit of the doubt as to their intention. Their intentions are to destroy our rights. If they could repeal the Second Amendment, they would do it. Look at how draconian every gun law is in New Jersey. Look at how they don’t grandfather magazines. Look at how extreme the penalties are. Look at how they created the gun owner gulag. I mean all this that they do. I just don’t believe it’s for some noble cause. It’s more about their hatred of us, and that really is what fires them up. That’s what the Left is all about, hatred, and they hate us. And this is how their hate is translated into these so-called do-gooder laws. It just is a better explanation from my experience in seeing what the gun laws do to good people, Teddy. Teddy Nappen 32:27 Yeah. Evan Nappen 32:29 But let me tell you, it doesn’t mean that we can’t have guns, that we can’t enjoy our guns. We can still keep fighting, and we don’t want to give up. We’re making progress, even though New Jersey is the toughest environment. And this is where it’s very important that you have a range to go to, and the range where Teddy and I shoot is WeShoot. WeShoot is in Lakewood. They’re a great indoor range. They have great training and a great pro shop. You can get your certification you need, your CCARE for your carry. It’s really just a great place. WeShoot has some pretty cool stuff they’re offering in June. Here they have a Smith & Wesson Performance Center Bodyguard 2.0 Carry Comp with blue titanium finish. It is a stunning evolution of the Bodyguard platform, a very popular platform. It features all these performance center enhancements with an integrated compensator and that really cool blue titanium finish. So, check it out. I think you really dig that bodyguard. They also have a Sig Sauer P211 Comp GTO. Now, this is Sigs latest high performance masterpiece. This gun blends race gun speed with premium craftsmanship, and it just takes it to another level. They also have Henry Big Boy Steel X. Now, the Henry Big Boy is a modern lever action. It’s a powerhouse with a threaded barrel, and that’s okay. On a lever action, you can have a threaded barrel on your lever action, side loading gate, and rugged steel construction, proving that tradition and innovation can ride side by side, and so check out those. Page – 11 – of 14 Evan Nappen 34:29 By the way, Molly Friedman is joins “The Many Faces of 2A”, and she’s reminding us that the Second Amendment belongs to every American from all walks of life. WeShoot is running some great June promotions beyond those really cool guns. There’s 25% off all heritage firearms, $200 off a family membership, 10% off all new firearms, 15% off all used firearms, and 15% off private lessons. So, this is great. Get down to WeShoot. WeShoot is in Lakewood. Go to weshootusa.com, weshootusa.com, weshootusa.com. Check out their website, beautiful photography. Also, pay a visit there in Lakewood, you’ll be glad you did. Evan Nappen 35:27 Let me also shamelessly promote my book, which is New Jersey Gun Law. It’s the bible of New Jersey gun law. It’s over 500 pages, 120 topics, and explains what you need to know about New Jersey gun law. It’s used by well, everybody, that wants to know about New Jersey gun law. Go to EvanNappen.com and get your copy today, so you can hopefully not become a GOFU, because New Jersey loves to make GOFUs. Teddy, what else do you have that you may have discovered in your travels? Teddy Nappen 36:05 Well, as you know, Press Checks are always free. One of the things that is, again, we always want to do our opposition research to see what they’re currently the gun rights oppressionists are pushing or crying about. If we go to our good friends at TheTrace.org, they put out an article. “Trump’s Justice Department Is Suing Cities and States to Dismantle Gun Laws. (https://www.thetrace.org/2026/06/trump-doj-civil-rights-2a-local-gun-laws/) So, again, this is where we always have to make. Evan Nappen 36:41 Make sure our listeners know that The Trace is Bloomberg’s mouthpiece, the anti-gun Bloomberg mouthpiece. So, they’re oppo research for sure. So, what do they say? Teddy Nappen 36:55 Yeah. So, they’re whining about the fact that they no longer have the strong arm of the United States government to go after our rights. Instead, oh my god, the Civil Rights Division is fighting for the Second Amendment. Evan Nappen 37:11 Wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute. You’re telling me that the Civil Rights Division of the US government is actually fighting for the Constitution? Teddy Nappen 37:20 I know. Amazing. Evan Nappen 37:21 When did that happen? Page – 12 – of 14 Teddy Nappen 37:24 Well, apparently, and this was a big shocker, even to The Trace, where they even talk about the article. I love how there’s this. This department was used for fighting civil rights discrimination for black voting and school segregations. It has never been a focus on gun rights, said former attorney of the division, who focused on red lines, which can’t wait to hear all that wonderful things that went on with redlining. Evan Nappen 37:54 Well, so what? I mean, the Second Amendment is also a constitutional right and a civil right, and they absolutely should be protecting all civil rights. They particularly should not be going against any civil right. So, under Biden and prior administrations, they weaponized these agencies to actually go against Second Amendment rights. And now the agencies are actually doing their job and enforcing Second Amendment rights, and The Trace apparently can’t stand it. Plus, they’ve lost so much money that they used to get from the taxpayer. I mean, this is the effects of an election having consequences, and it’s President Trump and his administration that are making these great changes. You see it taking place here, and they’re upset about it. Teddy Nappen 38:49 And this is for, like, any every time I hear the black pillars go, like, he’s not doing enough for the Second Amendment, are you kidding me? Having the Civil Rights Division fighting all of these blue on-on strongholds, fighting for our rights, taking down. This is how we lost our rights through salami tactics. This is how it piece by piece, sure enough. And I love this timeline, mind you, of the Spamberg together talk. Actually, mentioned this in the trace arc about Spanberg signing the assault weapon ban. The Assistant Attorney General Dylan posts on X, see you in court. Imagine having an Assistant Attorney General in your Government saying we’re going to fight to defend your rights. When was that ever in any administration? Evan Nappen 39:41 Take on the state that’s stomping on Second Amendment rights. But, Teddy, you mentioned the black pillars. Just so our listeners know, what does that term mean? The black pillars. It’s not about race at all. What does that term mean? Teddy Nappen 39:56 They’re the horseshoe right. They’re the ones arguing that Donald Trump hasn’t done enough. He hasn’t met any of his promises. And look, no one is perfect. No one can. He is not a king. He can’t just snap his fingers and say, all right, we’re going to send in all the National Guard and point the guns at all the governors and force them to sign bills recognizing the Second Amendment. Like that’s not how that works. It’s about fighting in the system. Going after these policies state by state through the courts, because believe me, they’ve had all their politically appointed judges. I mean, they just did an Executive Order. He did an Executive Order stopping the massive funding to the H1b allowing them to get houses. A judge stopped that through a judge blocking, blocking. Page – 13 – of 14 Evan Nappen 40:49 The activist judges are always causing him problems, and he has to go to higher levels to overturn. We see it every time. They are the appointees, normally from the prior administrations, and this is where Trump’s breaking the mold of the old government ways. And these judges can’t believe that somebody would actually have the balls to do that, and yet he does. Hey Teddy, I want to mention about this week’s GOFU. It’s very important. As you know, GOFUs are Gun Owner Fuck Ups, and we want to make sure that our listeners learn these expensive lessons for free that others have learned. I’m going to have you tell us what you think is a good GOFU for this week for us to discuss. Teddy Nappen 41:48 So, this is something that I’ve been seeing with all the primaries coming up. I always like to imagine all the Democrat candidates just get handed the talking points, like it’s a sheet, like, okay. What gun control thing are we pushing for? For some reason, they’ve all dragged out the “safe storage” as the next big dog whistle of an issue that they’re trying to make relevant. Safe storage, we need to push for it. It was Tallarico, you know, the vegan. Whatever. This guy is are moron, but he pushes for “safe storage” laws requiring safe storage of firearms to keep everyone safe. Evan Nappen 42:30 Now, under Heller, you’re not required to lock up your safety. Heller addressed that in the original decision, but New Jersey does have a law that says you cannot allow a minor to access a loaded firearm. So, when it comes to minors accessing your guns, New Jersey also makes transfer laws, so that you can’t transfer temporarily a firearm, even your spouse or family member, unless you’re at the range or while hunting. There are issues with transfers, and there are issues that have to do with storage. But what they’re looking to do here is create what is mandatory storage requirements, so that, you know, while someone’s breaking into your home, you just got to ask the hot home invader, you know, that’s doing a hot robbery. Just give me a second, so I can get my gun out of the safe, okay? I’ll be right with you while they’re going to rape and kill your family. So, this is a problem. Evan Nappen 43:42 But the GOFU component, particularly in New Jersey, is making sure that you don’t have unauthorized parties access your firearm. You never let a minor access a loaded firearm unless it’s where you’re within an exemption. Where they’re under your direct supervision, but you know, just leaving it at home unlocked, where a minor can access it, you’ve got criminal potential problems there. And then on storage of your firearm, under the Carry Killer law, you’ve got to make sure that if you’re going to use that exemption, that your gun is unloaded and locked. You know, secured in that manner. Otherwise, you can get charged for improper storage of your firearm in violation of the Carry Killer law and sensitive places. Evan Nappen 44:43 These are the areas where storage in New Jersey takes on a legal component, where you can end up with a GOFU. But what you’re talking about is also very important, because it’s another foot in the door by the antis to try to abuse the storage laws to disenfranchise and take away gun rights. New Jersey has done that to a certain degree here in the Carry Killer law, and some of the other laws that they put forward about having to secure firearms. It’s designed to create disenfranchisement of Second Page – 14 – of 14 Amendment rights, arrests, and even at minimum taking away gun licenses over the use of these rules that they again put forward in the name of public safety and do it even contrary at times to the decision in Heller. Evan Nappen 45:48 Hey, this is Evan Nappen and Teddy Nappen, reminding you that gun laws don’t protect honest citizens from criminals. They protect criminals from honest citizens. Speaker 2 45:59 Gun Lawyer is a CounterThink Media production. The music used in this broadcast was managed by Cosmo Music, New York, New York. Reach us by emailing [email protected]. The information and opinions in this broadcast do not constitute legal advice. Consult a licensed attorney in your state. Downloadable PDF TranscriptGun Lawyer S5 E294_Transcript About The HostEvan Nappen, Esq.Known as “America’s Gun Lawyer,” Evan Nappen is above all a tireless defender of justice. Author of eight bestselling books and countless articles on firearms, knives, and weapons history and the law, a certified Firearms Instructor, and avid weapons collector and historian with a vast collection that spans almost five decades — it’s no wonder he’s become the trusted, go-to expert for local, industry and national media outlets. Regularly called on by radio, television and online news media for his commentary and expertise on breaking news Evan has appeared countless shows including Fox News – Judge Jeanine, CNN – Lou Dobbs, Court TV, Real Talk on WOR, It’s Your Call with Lyn Doyle, Tom Gresham’s Gun Talk, and Cam & Company/NRA News. As a creative arts consultant, he also lends his weapons law and historical expertise to an elite, discerning cadre of movie and television producers and directors, and novelists. He also provides expert testimony and consultations for defense attorneys across America. Email Evan Your Comments and Questions  [email protected] Join Evan’s InnerCircleHere’s your chance to join an elite group of the Savviest gun and knife owners in America.  Membership is totally FREE and Strictly CONFIDENTIAL.  Just enter your email to start receiving insider news, tips, and other valuable membership benefits.   Email (required) *First Name *Select list(s) to subscribe toInnerCircle Membership Yes, I would like to receive emails from Gun Lawyer Podcast. (You can unsubscribe anytime)Constant Contact Use. Please leave this field blank.var ajaxurl = "https://gun.lawyer/wp-admin/admin-ajax.php";