Some people believe the water baptism in necessary for salvation. Some people believe that because Jesus was baptized with water, they need to. What do the Scriptures say about baptism? Tune in as Mike and Kevin talk about it.

Transcript

Want to discover your freedom in Christ? Then listen in as Mike stone and Kevin Smith talk about it today on grace coach. Welcome to grace coach. What's up, Mike? Hey, Hey, Kevin. All right, man, glad to be with you. Today, we're gonna have a great show. And we're gonna be talking about baptism. And there are so many things, so many, a wide variety of different comments about baptism. And it's just amazing, as I stated last couple of days. might tell me about yourself, what was your story on baptism? Yeah, thanks for asking. I was one to a messianic church where we went to the beach, in the Chicago area. And they were baptizing anyone who wanted to be baptized. And so I went through that process, but surely really didn't understand what I was doing. I wish I would have had this podcast to listen to. But I kind of knew a little bit was about identifying myself with Jesus and the water was a symbol. And we're going to read some scriptures today. But I think some of the, the the thoughts about baptism, what they people believe, is some people believe that water, water baptism is necessary for salvation. They even take it a little further some other religions that infants need to be baptized in order to make sure they're saved, and go into heaven. So via an infant can even make a decision for Christ. They are baptized with water, aka baptismal regeneration. And others believe that because Jesus was baptized, that I need to be baptized. Yeah, let me get back to you. What did that mean to you? Because like you just said, some people, there's beliefs out there that when they get baptized, that is, you know, they're becoming a Christian. At that moment. baptismal regeneration is what would they call it? A lot of major denominations believe that. Catholics believe that. But so but Jewish people that you brought in what was what was going on for you personally, when you got baptized? Was it just a symbolic thing at the end of a your? I forgot the word that Jewish people do when they become adult Jewish people into the journal mitzvah. Bar Mitzvah. Yeah. So is that was it part of your bar mitzvah? Or was it just something people do in general? Or how does it how it is with Jews? Well, so I was going to a church. I was a new believer. And basically, Kevin, the answer your question is, I was just doing what they told me I should do. It was this the Messianic church? That was Yes, it was. Okay. So that's different than what I was thinking. I was thinking that you're talking about your when you went to church as a kid before you went to MSI. So yeah, okay. I get that with the Messianic that they would be doing stuff like that. Yeah. And so yeah, like I said, I didn't really understand about baptism. I wasn't really reading the scriptures that much. I was doing like so many other people, you know, going to church, just listening, what the pastor was reading, and then just doing pretty much what they asked us to do. And water baptism in the lake was one of those things. Man, let's do it. Yeah, yeah, but a baptism. The more I look at it, I can, I can see how it came about, although you won't find the word baptized in the Old Testament. But if you ever went to the temple of Israel, the Wailing Wall, on the south side of the Temple Mount, were cleansing baths known as mitzvahs. Right, and they've been there seen that? Yeah, yeah. And so those were used to cleanse people prior to them entering the temple. They were also used as monthly menstrual cycle cleaning for females. Yeah. And if you had come in contact with a dead body, that was also a way to be cleansed of any diseases or germs and today, Orthodox Jews actually believe that if you're a Gentile want to convert to Judaism. That you would need to dip yourself in a mikvah bath in order to become Jewish right there reminds me when Jesus healed I think the blind man, he said, go to the temple and cleanse yourself. That's probably exactly what he did. And so they know exactly what he was talking about, may not have known that this was a spiritual cleansing that Jesus was talking about. But I wanted to take a look at some scriptures, Kevin, first and First Peter 319. And 21. Great verse, I didn't read that one. It talks about Noah being saved in the ark. And it says, so he went and preached to the spirits in prison, those who disobeyed God, long ago, when God waited patiently while Noah was building his boat, only eight were saved from drowning in that terrible flood. And that water is a picture of baptism, which now saves you that by removing dirt from your body, but as a response to God, from my clean conscience, it is effective because of the resurrection of Jesus Christ. So this hair clearly says that this water, it and they really were saved in the ark, right? They were saved from the water. But yeah, the saving process of being in the ark was a picture of baptism. And that spiritual baptism, which saves us today, that when we're born again, Christ comes to live inside of us, and were baptized into the Holy Spirit. I love that a picture of baptism, it's it's goes to the symbolic thing. And I know the church, I basically spent a lot of time at Park Community Church in the city. That's really what the mantra was there. You know, it's a, what was the phrase? Is it inward? No, it's our expression of an inward transaction, basically. Yeah. And that's really, I think, the depth of what people understood baptism to be, you know, it's just like, Alright, there's something to happen. I accepted Christ, and I'm gonna go and get dunked in the way we did it, and like Michigan also. So anyway, is a picture of it. But I think I hope that we at the end of this podcast today, are able to take people to a much deeper, richer place in their understanding of what actually happened in that spiritual context of baptism. And I read this verse, this next verse, First Corinthians chapter 10, verses one through two. And then we'll kind of dig into some more things by says, I don't want you to forget, dear brothers and sisters, about our ancestors in the wilderness long ago, basically talking about Moses in Israel, all of them were guided by a cloud that moved ahead of them. And all of them walked through the sea, on dry ground, in a cloud and in the sea. All of them were baptized as followers of Moses. So what, what this verse does and what the verse you just read, basically, is identifying these people with a person, Moses, in this case, no. And the other case, all right. And so that is really the the the meaning of baptism is that you're, you're being dipped down in the water, you're being identified with someone now as a Christian, we're being identify with who with Jesus, with Jesus. Absolutely. That is really the crux of the issue is who we're being identified with. Now, it's also you're being identified with His death, burial and resurrection. All right, I think that is kind of some of the points that a lot of people don't really understand. Is that not just a symbol of you being going down in the water and coming up, you know, you died, your old self died, and you've become a new self. And we've talked we talked about this new life a lot but it's so funny how this is where you get to with a lot of this is the message of the Bible is that we died and we've we raised up in a new life, you know, we're dead to sin. That's that's a Another benefit of baptism. We're not like dying to self every day. It's your dead, your old self was dead and you are raised a noose, new self? And what does the Bible tell you about that? It says, you have a new heart, not the hardest stone anymore, but a heart of flesh. And that is, I think, for me is, is the biggest point of baptism is that we have a new heart, a new water, we want different things, even though we do dumb things. We say this a lot. But that's not our nature, we have a new cart, a new score of who we are those beautiful, so it is very beautiful. What do you think my? Well, I like it. And as I mentioned the beginning, some people want to be baptized with water. And there's nothing wrong with it, if you want to be baptized with water is terrific, but just you don't want to mix that with the spiritual baptism of the Holy Spirit. Because, you know, good can be the enemy of what is best. It's good to be baptized with water. If that's what you want to do. There's certainly no requirement for the church and x. They were baptized with water when they came to believe. Does that mean you should well there's the people who say yes, because an X 238. What shall we do? They ask, we should be baptized with water. That's what they did. The Book of Acts is not a doctrinal book. It's a historical book. But but it's the book of Acts that we're not doing today. That's right. On the other hand, when I say good can be the enemy of what is best if you miss this message of salvation, that you were dead, spiritually dead, as you were talking about, and now have crossed over from death to life. And Christ, then comes to live inside of us. It's that baptism, it's that identification is Christ coming to live inside of us, which is what must happen for us to be saved and go to heaven one day, and we don't want to miss that. And that's, that's what I mean, that good can be the enemy of what is best. But I want to also talk about Jesus and why he was baptized. And we can see that in john 131, to 33. And I love this Kevin, every time I read it, yes. It's like, Is it really in there? So I'm going to read it for us. I myself did not know him. And this is john the baptist. But the reason I came baptizing with water was that he might be revealed to Israel. Then john gave this testimony, yes, I saw the Spirit come down from heaven, as a dove, and remain on him. And that's the dove that remained on Jesus's shoulder. And I myself did not know him. But the one who sent me to baptize with water, told me the man on whom you see the Spirit come down as a dove, and remain is the one who will baptize with the Holy Spirit. So john baptized with water. And he baptized Jesus to identify the nation of Israel, that Jesus Christ was the Messiah, he is the Son of God, and He is the one who will baptize with the Holy Spirit. Yes, being revealed to Israel, and many believed on him, but there was many who did not he was a definitely a lightning rod and that in the world, even to this day, the name of Jesus is as a lightning rod when you you can talk about religion, you talk about spirituality. But when you start when you say, Jesus, that is definitely a dividing rod. You know, people either get attracted or get repelled. That's right. So it's very cool to see that, you know, in the scriptures in the book of john, about why Jesus was baptized, well, he was baptized to identify him to Israel. And that was that should you be baptized because Jesus was baptized? Well, that's all up to you. If that's what you want to do, and you want to have a ceremony in the lake or in the ocean, or wherever and the river, absolutely. It's a great picture of your salvation. But again, it's nothing but again, it's Not necessary, because think about the thief on the cross. If baptism was conditional upon salvation for salvation, then Jesus was saying, you know, to the guy on the cross today, you're going to be with me a paradise. Well, he didn't have time to get off the cross and go down and get baptized in order to be, you know, hit with Jesus in paradise. So that is obvious fact that baptism is not necessarily for salvation. That's right. It's really just an identification with Christ, death, burial and resurrection. That is great. Hey, and, you know, Matthew 28, this is Jesus Himself, Matthew 2819, and 20, Jesus says, will therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I've commanded to you? Well, I believe Kevin, that is not talking about water baptism. It's talking about pointing them to Jesus Christ, because all people come into this world spiritually dead in need of life, and wanted nothing more than to see, for people to come alive in Christ that they would be saved. And if it was water, only then it's water than saves you. But this is done about a spiritual baptism. Absolutely, there's another verse. First Corinthians 1213, Paul states, For by one Spirit, we are all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves are free, and we were all made to drink of one spirit. Yeah, that's pure, though there is one spirit that we're all that ties into. That's right. And how about acts one, four, and five, Kevin, this is unbelievable. So on one occasion, while he was eating with them, he gave them this command. Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift my father promised. Now this is the gift of the Holy Spirit, because that's what the Father promised long ago. It says, Wait for the gift, my father promise which you have heard me speak about, for john baptize with water. But in a few days, you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit. And there is the writer of x. column, clearly making a distinction between water baptism, which john was doing, again to identify Jesus to Israel, but in a few days, you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit. The nickel is awesome. Okay, here's another verse that really ties together what I was talking about earlier, is basically Romans six, three and four. Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ us have been baptized into His death, therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, in order that as Christ was raised from the dead, through the glory of the Father, so we too, might walk in newness of life, and get this. But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart, that form of teaching to which you were committed. And having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness, and speaking in human terms, because of the weakness of your flesh, that that really encapsulates everything what I just said a second ago, about, really, that the benefit, the real benefit of baptism, that we can become obedient from the heart to a new form of teaching. Yeah, and again, that that word obedience can be taken also the wrong way. We're not talking about obedience, of following the law. But we're talking about obedience to the Word of God. believing the Word of God putting your faith in the Word of God, and being obedient to it. And believing it. Yeah. being led by the spirit being led by the Spirit. Yes. You know, we have a new wanter we don't want you know, that is really revolutionary. If people can, even though we get tempted by the world, the flesh and the devil every day, there's there's crap going on. In the world, and it's coming at you, but and we've, we have lived much of our lives depending on when you became a Christian with coping mechanisms, you know, to get I'll stop right there. The only coping? Well we do. I mean, we try, we think we've got coping mechanism. I want this, I'm gonna do this to get this and to cope with the situation. Yeah, well, I mean, so we all have these things that we've done. But it's not really to express that does not express Christ in our life when we do things of the world. And because God has given us a new heart, that's, that's really not what we want is these things of the world. And there, there you go, that your word wanter. I love that. Because Yeah, we want God to change our wanter to change from, you know, fulfilling the flesh versus fulfilling ourselves, you know, with the truth of the Word of God, which sets us free. When things of the world don't set us free. I also equate that to changing our hope that we have our hoper. Because if you change your water, and then our hope are that the hope of eternal life, the hope of the rapture, that Jesus is coming back again, and you change your hoper, that really changes what you're hoping for, right, you might be hoping for your job to change, you might be hoping for someone, someone in your family to change, you might be hoping for this or for that. But our real hope is the hope and the return of Jesus one day, and hopefully soon, or he's coming to rapture, anyone who was still alive with those who have died in Christ, and meet them all, in the air. That's a great hope to have. Absolutely. That's a great hope. Because all the things that we hope for in this world. In our Bible study, now you said they're all going to be left on the street, corner street, and the front of the street one day, all the things that we have all the things that we hope for in this world are one day, you're going to be on the street pile, and the garbage company is going to come pick it up. And it'll be gone. Yep. And be gone. You know, one last scripture before we leave first Corinthians 117, this is, Paul speaking says For Christ did not send me the baptize with water. But to preach the gospel, not with words, wit with wisdom and eloquence, less the cross of Christ be emptied of its power. And so there is Paul who wrote 70, or 75% of the New Covenant said that Christ did not send me to baptize with water. But to preach the gospel. Paul is clearly saying these two things are clearly different. Water baptism and preaching the gospel, which is preaching spiritual baptism are clearly two different things. You know, this is not our opinion. We're reading the scriptures. And they're profound, you know, to read these things, right? Yeah. Is this such a confusing topic, and I really hope people have got some understanding that leads to peace. Because in, in my research for this podcast today, I've seen some, just custom comparisons on what all the denominations believe out there. And it is such a wide variety of beliefs. And I know we've touched on a few of them today. But the essence of it is, is that you're now identified as a child of God. And God has given you a new want water, water and a new whole point that term. Yeah, great show today, Kevin, and I really enjoyed the topic of baptism today. I might love you, brother. Love you too. Thank you for listening to grace coach. If you want to connect with us, we would love to engage with you. Email us at the Grace [email protected] visit our Facebook page, or visit our website, Grace coach.org