We had a new PHO out last week – that’s a Public Health Order, not a Vietnamese noodle soup – and as we discuss in the pod, it’s more of a dog’s breakfast from NSW Health. Are we supposed to allow renovations in apartments when people are being told to stay inside and even work from home? Are cleaners essential workers? How about building managers? Does anybody in NSW Health realise that apartments and townhouses are significantly different from each other and, certainly, from free-standing bungalows? When they tell us to pass by-laws to fill the gaps in their legislation, do they even know that that means and how hard it can be. LISTEN HERE Do they know that some blocks – maybe even the majority – don’t have building managers, strata managers or even active committees? Or that half the strata population are tenants with zero effective say in the way their blocks are run? Is anyone in Fair Trading trying to explain the facts of strata life to the Health Department policymakers … and are they listening? We ask former OCN board member and active advocate for strata residents Jane Hearn what NSW Health is thinking, if anything.   Also in the pod, we discuss this story about a new star ratings system for new apartment blocks in NSW and try desperately not to be too cynical. And we discover a tiny skerrick of good news for owners in Mascot Towers. TRANSCRIPT IN FULL Jimmy  0:00  I've got a bit of a confession to make. Sue  0:01  What? Jimmy  0:03   I think I might have Olympic fever. Sue  0:06  What's Olympic fever, Jimmy? Jimmy  0:08  Well, I started to suspect this, when the figures came out last week for the new number of infections in Sydney. There were 96 and my immediate response was to go "come on, Australia! Come on, Sydney; you can do it!" Which is probably an inappropriate response. Sue  0:28  Absolutely, yes, but the Olympics have been amazing. Jimmy  0:32  Terrific relief from all this doom and gloom, of which there is much. Sue  0:37  It's been fantastic for keeping us occupied during lockdown. Jimmy  0:40  Yes and keeping us thinking about going to the gym, or having a swim or whatever. Today, we will not be talking about the Olympics; we'll be talking about a new scheme that the government's bringing in to have a star rating for new developments. And, we'll be talking about the latest public health orders and how confusing (and confused), they are, when it comes to apartments. And, finally, a tiny little bit of good news for the people in Mascot Towers. I'm Jimmy Thomson. I write the Flat Chat column for the Australian Financial Review. Sue  1:20  And I'm Sue Williams and I write about property for Domain. Jimmy  1:23  And this is the Flat Chat Wrap. [MUSIC] Jimmy This weekend,

On this weeks’ Podcast Sue Williams and JimmyT explore the differences if any that our current locked down, work-from-home life will make to the way we build and live in apartments in the future. Last week we were taking the mickey out of marketers promoting “zoom rooms” … but then we thought about it and agreed, if they were done properly, they could be great. Then we look at the Australian Building (sub)Standards for noise mitigation in apartments which are close to useless even before builders start cutting corners and trimming costs on all the things we can’t see between walls and under floors. LISTEN HERE Meanwhile there are products like those we mention from Arcicture.com that cut down noise and look pretty good too. Then there’s open spaces, infrastructure for home offices, shared workspaces and areas in and around blocks where you can just chill out. Sooner or later developers are going to work out that putting a small premium on a lot of apartments that have access to a rooftop social space, is worth more (in every way) than selling a penthouse apartment to one person for their exclusive privileged use. This isn't going to happen overnight but unrenovated flats and new apartments, all with poor sound insulation, will drop down the priority list for buyers and renters alike. There’s all that and more – including the stupid “nanny state gone mad” arguments about leaf blowers in Bondi. TRANSCRIPT IN FULL Jimmy  00:00 Thank God for the Olympics! Sue  00:02 Yes, it's come in handy at the time of COVID, hasn't it? Not for the athletes and the people who wanted to go of course, and the officials and the volunteers, but for... Jimmy  00:11 Those of us stuck at home? Sue  00:12 Yes. It's pretty amazing. Jimmy  00:14 Yeah. I briefly toyed with the idea that maybe, it was deliberate. Sue  00:19 I think somebody on Insider said today, isn't it fantastic; we're all cheering for Australia and we're all Australians when we win a gold medal at the women's relay, but when we're talking about dividing our Pfizer shots, we're a nation of different states. Jimmy  00:34 Yes, exactly. Okay, now, we're going to be talking about how dealing with COVID has affected the way that we live in apartments and what that might mean for the future. I'm Jimmy Thomson, I write the Flat Chat column for the Australian Financial Review. Sue  00:54 And I'm Sue Williams, and I write about property for Domain. Jimmy  00:57 And this is the Flat Chat Wrap. [MUSIC] Jimmy  01:13 Sue, if you were going to change anything about the way apartments were built in the future (given that this may not be the last time we have a pandemic, or a wave of the current one), what would you change? Sue  01:29 Obviously, I'd want buildings to be much better built and to have much better soundproof qualities as well, because I think we're all at home a lot. If we had (god forbid), another pandemic,

Covid kicks off the podcast again this week, unfortunately, but with both Sydney and Melbourne shut down it’s the first thing that springs to everyone’s  mind. However there are some new talking points – like the surprisingly handy Strata Covid Toolkit produced by the NSW government last weekend, which we highly recommend. Then, just when they’ve final acquired some Flat Chat Brownie points, the NSW government goes and stuffs it up by issuing Public Health Orders about who can work where, completely ignoring strata and the people who run it. LISTEN HERE The in some non-covid chat (praise be!), we talk about some of the astronomical prices being paid for apartments in the Crown tower at Barangaroo. And we recall spending a night in one of the poshest (and worst laid-out) penthouses in Sydney. Then we discover “zoom rooms”, the new name for that awkward corner of apartments that developers don’t know what to do with.  Too small to be a study, too impractical to be anything other than a cupboard, now it’s the potential hub of your burgeoning media career. As our picture of US broadcaster Ira Glass (purloined from Medium.com) shows, you don’t need a special room – just a wardrobe with a desk and lots of noise-absorbing clothes. Sue also introduces us to once-desirable areas where rents are 30 per cent lower than they were five years ago.  And we get the inside running on the sale of a disgraced League player’s Parra pad. That’s all in this week’s Flat Chat Wrap. TRANSCRIPT IN FULL Jimmy  0:00  I feel like we're in double duty this week, because we were on Amanda Farmer's podcast, where everybody actually got to see us for a change. Sue  0:09   Yes. Amanda looks so glamorous and we both looked like we just got out of bed. Jimmy  0:15  Well, you had! She does look very glamorous. It was interesting and quite challenging, the three of us trying to speak, all at the same time, often. We still managed to get through a fair bit of material. Today, we've got a few things to talk about. We've got the new strata toolkit from the New South Wales Government. I noticed it's branded 'government,' not health and definitely not Fair Trading. We've got some confusing messages coming out in the public health orders and you've got some stories about rents and the sales of fabulous apartments. Sue  0:57  Yes, that's right. Jimmy  0:58  I'm Jimmy Thomson. I write the Flat Chat column for the Australian Financial Review. Sue  1:04  And I'm Sue Williams and I write about property for Domain. Jimmy  1:07  And this is the Flat Chat Wrap. Late on Friday night (which seems to be when they release anything that has to do anything with strata), the New South Wales government released its strata managers and committees COVID-19 handbook. Sue  1:37  Fantastic. Jimmy  1:38  I'm sorry, it's a toolkit. It's not a handbook,

This week’s podcast makes a brave effort to pretend life is going on as normal … and almost pulls it off. We talk about the new DNA for apartment blocks, or the Building Assurance Solution, to give it its proper name, which the NSW government says is going to help track down dodgy developers, just like forensic scientists catching criminals on TV dramas. Then we talk about a development in one of Sydney’s most affluent areas that has seen work halted until problems with the construction are fixed.  LISTEN HERE The developers and some early off-the-plan purchasers are saying “nothing to see here”. The government is saying fix the problems or you won’t get an occupancy certificate. And we talk about the areas where residential apartment rents and investment yields are soaring, which is just about everywhere … except Sydney and Melbourne, where most of our apartments are. But first we get into the nitty gritty of compulsory mask wearing in common property areas of apartment blocks and ask why it was, less than two weeks ago, that NSW Health didn’t even think it was worth suggesting this sensible precaution to apartment residents, let alone ordering us to mask up. Could it be the rapid spread of Covid-19 in apartment blocks? This episode was recorded before the 29-unit block in Sydney’s Eastern Suburbs, where eight infections across five households were discovered. This new variant of the virus is spreading so fast that even we almost can’t keep up … almost.  But we've managed to bring out a bumper edition of the podcast to help get you through whatever impacts Covid-19 is having wherever you live. And as of today, the Flat Chat crew will be fully vaccinated and masked to the max, so - fingers crossed - we’ll be here keeping you informed and entertained for a while. TRANSCRIPT IN FULL Jimmy 0:00So, straight from isolation into lockdown; the never-ending lockdown. But, at least it gives us a chance to catch up on things, like tidying our offices. Sue 0:12Absolutely! I completely tidied mine today. Jimmy 0:14And then, you couldn't find what you were looking for. Sue 0:16I couldn't find anything at all! Jimmy 0:20Right, so we have nothing to talk about (that's not true). We're going to talk about the lockdown; we're going to talk about mask wearing. We're going to talk about a thing called the Building Assurance Solution, which sounds like a cleaning product, but is in fact, a brilliant (allegedly), idea to have all new buildings have a kind of digital DNA, so you know everything about what went into the construction. And, we're going to talk about rents and yields. I'm Jimmy Thomson, I write the Flat Chat column for the Australian Financial Review. Sue 0:56And I'm Sue Williams and I write about property for Domain. Jimmy 0:59And this is the Flat Chat Wrap. [MUSIC] Jimmy So, last week, after we'd recorded the podcast (complaining about how the government wasn't taking the casual infection of people living in apartments and meeting each other in common property seriously), they issued an advisory, telling people who were in apartment buildings; in common property, that they should wear masks. Sue 1:40They suggested it, that we should. Jimmy 1:41It would be a good idea. And that is good; that's fine.

As we emerge from our “close contact” self-isolation we are probably going to have to go back into hiding after the selfie we took of ourselves still at work, despite lockdowns, which appeared in the Fin Review last weekend. Responses have ranged from “a picture-perfect combination of domestic bliss and productivity” to “oh, dear … you look like two crazy old people.” Of course, either or both of these may possibly be true. Back to the podcast, on which we discuss how much (or little) the government is getting out of the controversial sale of the Sirius building. LISTEN HERE We look at the new focus on owners corporations who deliberately hide their building’s defects, presumably so they don’t damage the prospects of selling their flats. And we talk about how buildings’ reputations can be easily harmed when rumours and gossip get out of hand. We chat about the very shaky start to the new Property Services Experts Panel, with one of the biggest players pulling out. Plus the new regulations that will require the professionals involved in property development – like architects, engineers and builders – to register their involvement in new schemes. Domesticity and productivity ... or two crazy old people? And we mention Sue’s new book “Daughter of the River Country” the biography of an amazing Aboriginal community leader which is out now, just in time for Naidoc week. All that and more in this week’s Flat Chat Wrap. TRANSCRIPTION IN FULL Jimmy  0:00 We only have just over 24 hours left in isolation! Sue  0:06 Woohoo! I can't wait to get out. Well, I guess we have got out on three occasions, haven't we? But, that was purely to have a COVID test. Jimmy  0:17 Although yesterday, we walked down to the one at the park. Sue  0:21 That was very pleasant. Jimmy  0:22 Yeah, just to get out in the sunshine. We'd had two negative tests before that and that test proved negative. So, it's just a matter of time now. Sue  0:32 Yeah, absolutely. Jimmy  0:33 Until we're free! Sue  0:34 Yes! Never been so pleased to get out and have somebody stick a thing up your nose, but still! Jimmy  0:41 Today, we're talking about the sale of the Sirius building, or more to the point, what they're going to do with the money. And, we're going to talk about the hiding of defects. What else have we got, Sue? Sue  0:53 The next phase of the apartment buyer protection. Jimmy  0:57 And then, there's something we should mention, which is the apparent collapse of the whole Property Services Expert Panel. Sue  1:06 Oh, really? Jimmy  1:06 The estate agents have pulled out. Sue  1:08 They were the ones who were lobbying for it! It was their idea. Jimmy  1:12 Yeah, and now they've pulled out. There's that and a lot of other stuff coming up. I'm Jimmy Thomson; I write the Flat Chat column for the Australian Financial Review.

There's a saying going around that it's the hope that kills you - and certainly, fans of the Scotland, Sweden, France, Netherlands and German football teams at the European Championships would concur. Of course, it's nonsensense. If anything kills you, it's complacency. You walk around feeling like you're immune and then you find out the person sitting next to you in a cafe definitely wasn't virus-free, and your attitude changes quickly. So in this week’s podcast Sue and I chat about what it’s like to be self-quarantining (we were deemed to have been close contacts with an infected person) and ask why NSW Health doesn’t want to tell people in apartments just to take a few minor sensible extra precautions. LISTEN HERE We also look at the tragic and terrible apartment block collapse in Miami and what that might and maybe should mean for buildings of the same age constructed in a similar fashion here in Australia. Interestingly, a comment piece by our very good friend and strata expert Cathy Sherry appeared in the Sydney Morning Herald the day after we recorded our podcast, and it pretty much confirms everything we were saying. Meanwhile, I’ll just take a break from self-congratulation to point out an error I made in the podcast where I referred to the apartment block in Melbourne’ Southbank as Kings Court. I should have said Kings Park.  If you Google “Kings Court” you might find a very different kind of establishment … so don’t! No! I said don't! Or at least remember to clean up your search history when you're done. TRANSCRIPT IN FULL Jimmy  0:00 It's very quiet today. Sue  0:01 It really is! Jimmy  0:03 It's quieter than normal, when we do our podcast. Sue  0:09 And that's because we're in Sydney. Jimmy  0:10 And, we're in the middle of lockdown-central. Sue  0:13 Absolutely! Jimmy  0:14 Even more lockdown than most people, because we are actually in quarantine. We are in quarantine, because of close contact. We spend half our lives in cafes, and it was bound to happen, sooner or later. Sue  0:28 An infected person was in the cafe at the same time as us, apparently. Jimmy  0:32 Let's talk about that in a minute, and we're going to talk about this tragedy; this horrible tragedy, in Miami. I'm Jimmy Thomson, I write the Flat Chat column for the Australian Financial Review. Sue  0:46 And I'm Sue Williams and I write about property for Domain. Jimmy  0:48 And this is the Flat Chat Wrap. [MUSIC} Jimmy Well, while our theme music was playing, there was a very atmospheric ambulance siren in the background. Kind of appropriate, but difficult to edit. We had that heart-sink feeling, earlier last week, when we looked at the list of places where infected people had been at and discovered we had been in the same cafe at the same time. Sue  1:28 It was a bit depressing, wasn't it, really?

OK, it’s not in the same category as someone getting a couple of million clicks on a Tik Tok movie of them trying on a new pair of trainers, but Hyperbole Towers, the Flat Chat venture into “PodCom” quietly clicked over 1000 listens at the weekend. Hyperbole Towers is the pilot episode of what would once have been called a radio sitcom, set in an apartment block where a long-suffering chairperson struggles to manage a dysfunctional strata committee. Written by yours truly (drawing on many years of scripting for TV) and voice-directed by Warren Coleman, who was co-director on the Happy Feet movies, performed by a number of top voice-over actors and, with a special cameo from Todd McKenney, it’s actually quite a slick production. The set-up is that the chair, Charlie, is aided and abetted – and often undermined – by a calculating and conniving caretaker cum building manager called Alfie. He occupies a permanently locked office from where he seems to be able to monitor everything that’s happing in the building, via an impressive array of CCTV cameras. The other characters include: * Amber a “massage therapist” who says it as she sees it … and she sees a lot* Steve, the committee treasurer who regards everything in terms of money.* Brooke the hopeless committee secretary who ducks criticism by telling callers that their line is breaking up.* Retired class warrior Joe, who is still fighting the revolution in his mind* Do-gooder Wendy who thinks her charitable works entitle her to interfere in everyone else’s business* Damien a manic day trader for whom the committee is his only social contact. In this episode the set-up is that Brooke has accidentally created a by-law that says the committee MUST meet on Zoom, rather than can do so. The café in the commercial area of the block is closing and a massage parlour has applied to take it over. And there are complaints about a constant tapping noise from one flat which leads to speculation that it’s occupied by drug dealers. Oh, and there's an attempted coup when Charlie can't get her Zoom to work. What happens next?  Have a listen just by clicking on the “play” button below and it will come pouring out of your computer speakers or into your earbuds if you are reading this on your phone. And, if you enjoy it, pass it on to a friend in strata who may recognise some of the characters here. Just click on the social media links at the foot of this story. LISTEN HERE This podcom was made with the generous support of City of Sydney Council.

Covid-19 is back in the news in new, super-infectious variants, and in the podcast this week we ask the highly relevant question of what do you do if it comes to your apartment block? Do you expect everyone in your block to be told that someone is self-isolating because they have been tested, or were in a certain place at the same time as an infected person, or if they just have a bit of a cough and the sniffles? Would you be annoyed if you were that person and all your neighbours were warned to stay well clear of you?  Do we have to wait for a resident to get the bug? And should our entire block be locked down if someone does? LISTEN HERE Should residents in “hot” zones be wearing masks in lifts and carparks right now or do we have to wait for the state government to tell us what to do? The Owners Corporation Network is asking NSW Health to take strata seriously (they say they are) and strata lawyer Amanda Farmer has advised us all to stay vigilant. We say, most blocks watch the states’ health departments’ notices slavishly, so we need some clear advice now, so we can be ready. Then we follow the story of the woman whose leaky balcony was getting up her nose – literally – in the form of black mould. And that story has led to a revelation about Victorian balconies in the Forum. And, finally, three big developers face a range of negative reactions as their projects are rejected or are in serious trouble, while real estate agents are in the crosshairs for not warning prospective purchasers. All that and more in this week’s Flat Chat Wrap.  Transcript in Full Jimmy  0:00  There's a lot going on in apartments this week and a lot of news and not much of it very good. We've got the lockdown of the apartment block in Melbourne. We've got the spread of the Coronavirus in Sydney and the call by OCN for New South Wales Health to actually have protocols for apartment blocks. Sue  0:24  Sounds like a good idea. Jimmy  0:26  And we've got developers getting themselves into all sorts of trouble. Plenty to talk about! I'm Jimmy Thomson; I write the Flat Chat column for the Australian Financial Review. Sue  0:38  And I'm Sue Williams and I write about property for Domain Jimmy  0:41  And this is the Flat Chat Wrap. [MUSIC] Jimmy So, lockdown of an apartment block in Melbourne and then virus spreading through... I mean, I don't know if you can even call it casual contact... Passing clouds. Sue  1:10  Absolutely! That's a real worry, isn't it? Jimmy  1:12  It is and they are connected, these things. The apartment block in Melbourne; apparently, the transmission of the virus was through people passing in the carpark. These are townhouses, although it looks like an apartment block from the pictures.

We’re looking at some big news this week on the podcast and wondering what it all means. NSW Fair Trading has announced that they will be appointing a properties commissioner - like building commissioner David Chandler, only maybe without the fear factor – to help regulate all the professions involved in looking after buying, selling, renting and managing properties. What might those professions be? The inaugural appointees of Fair Trading’s Property Services Expert Panel provides a clue. The invitees included strata managers, real estate agents, building facilities managers, real estate trainers and employers, livestock and property agents, business brokers,  short-term rental managers, someone from the Wool And Pastoral Agency and a representative of private landlords. LISTEN HERE Everybody and his or her brother or sister – except apartment owners and tenants. But hey, what would we know about buying and selling, let alone letting and renting property? You can see the full list, with the lucky participants named, if not shamed, here. By the way, a couple of times in the podcast we refer to the strata managers’ organisation SCA as Strata Community Australia.  That’s their old name. The A now stands for Association, and has ever since they pulled New Zealand into their orbit. Anyway, the big questions are, what is this new Property Commissioner going to do and how are they going to do it?  Will they be kicking butt and taking names, a la David Chandler?  Or will they follow the established Fair Trading protocol of a light tap on the wrist and a quiet word with miscreants? Will they be looking at under-quoting, misrepresentation of properties, excessively long contracts, systematically waived cooling-off periods, gazumping, embedded networks, endemic dishonesty and general incompetence? Having kicked those topics around, we turn to security in strata buildings and a free webinar scheduled for June 30 (not this week, as I briefly thought). There’s a lot in this week’s podcast so it runs a little longer.  Enjoy. TRANSCRIPT IN FULL Jimmy 0:00So, you're back from Arnhem Land? Sue 0:02I am. It was so nice and warm up there. It's freezing down here again. Jimmy 0:07Yeah, we had a really cold day during the week. We've got a lot to talk about, because last week, there were a couple of big announcements from Fair Trading New South Wales and, the property market seems to have gone completely nuts. Sue 0:21Oh, it really is mad. I mean, it may not be hot weather, but it's certainly a hot market. Jimmy 0:28I'm Jimmy Thomson. I write the Flat Chat column for the Australian Financial Review. Sue 0:33And I'm Sue Williams. I write about property for Domain. Jimmy 0:36And this is the Flat Chat Wrap. So, for the past year, we've been talking about the Building Commissioner, David Chandler, and the difference he seems to be making in apartment buildings; getting them built. But, last week, the Fair Trading minister (or whatever they call themselves now; the Better Regulation and Shorter Titles. I think that's what the ministry is called). They announced there's going to be a properties commissioner.

This week in the podcast Sue Williams is in Darwin on an assignment, and finds that not only is Darwin the hottest city in Australia temperature-wise (probably … apart from Alice … and maybe Coober Pedy) it has the hottest property market with house prices going up an astonishing amount and apartments not far behind. Then we delve into the woes of the Toplace developers – or maybe their off-the-plan purchasers – as defects are found, repairs that might be fine but look suspiciously like band-aid fixes are revealed, and court cases are publicised. LISTEN HERE Is there a solution to the whole developer and defects conundrum? Sue reminds me that I am going to be MC-ing a Strata Matters owners day for the Owners Corporation Network (OCN) supported by City of Sydney, at which Better Regulation Minister Kevin Anderson will give the keynote address and Building Commissioner David Chandler and other Fair Trading bigwigs will be in attendance. It should be a terrific day - all I have to do is remember which of them I have insulted over the past couple of years and how deeply I'll need to apologise. There are more details on the seminar here. And finally we reflect on our newsletter piece from last week on lift notices warning against throwing things off balconies, and follow a link sent by a reader to a story from Scotland about what must be the worst case of “things thrown off a building” we’ve encountered. Actually, it’s a bit mad and quite poignant really, and you can read about it HERE. Oh, and FYI, "aufguss" (see notice above) is a kind of herbal infusion they put in saunas to aid relaxation and health. TRANSCRIPT IN FULL Jimmy  0:00  Things are a bit strange in the Flat Chat Wrap makeshift studio today; my usual partner in crime, Sue Williams isn't here. In fact, she's in Darwin and we'll be talking to her later, about why that city in the Northern Territory, is the boomtown of Australia when it comes to property. We're also going to be talking about a developer who is responsible for more than 1000 apartments, either newly built or in the process of being built, who's suddenly come under a very bright spotlight. A microscope, you might say, and people have been complaining about the build quality in their blocks. I'm Jimmy Thomson, I write the Flat Chat column for the Australian Financial Review and this is the Flat Chat Wrap. [MUSIC] Jimmy As I said just a few moments ago, Sue isn't here with us today in person. She's up in Darwin and I caught up with her before she disappeared into Arnhem Land on her assignment. If there is a deterioration in sound, the fact that we're talking via zoom should explain most of why things sound a little different this week. Here's Sue. Hi, Sue! Sue  1:35  Hi Jimmy! Jimmy  1:36  You're in Darwin? Sue  1:37  Yes, I am. I came up here today. I'm up here doing a story and gosh, it's so hot! It's fantastic! Jimmy  1:46