Show notes
How do you make an honest film about Billy Joel when Billy Joel doesn't want to talk about himself anymore?Steve Cohen walked into a rehearsal in 1974 as a 20-year-old lighting guy who didn't much care for "Piano Man." After his first show with the band, Billy Joel poured him a Black Russian by a Holiday Inn pool in Milwaukee and told him the audience had reacted in places it never had before. "So here," Billy said, "welcome to the band." Fifty years later, Steve is Billy's creative director and an executive producer of the HBO documentary Billy Joel: And So It Goes.In Episode 256, the first of two parts, Christian Taylor sits down with Steve Cohen. Christian, a Billy Joel fan since her teens on Long Island, admits at the top that this is the interview of a lifetime for her. Steve tells the story of how the film came together: a three-and-a-half-hour first conversation with Susan Lacy, the founder of PBS's American Masters, who turned out to be his neighbor on the East End of Long Island; a pitch from Todd Milliner and Sean Hayes; and Tom Hanks and Gary Goetzman, who signed on as long as Susan Lacy would direct. When Steve told Billy he would have no editorial control, Billy answered, "What have I got to hide?"Steve explains what made the film work. Co-director Jessica Levin brought a superfan's knowledge of every corner of the catalog. Susan Lacy insisted on interviewing Billy at a piano, his security blanket, and most of the interviews moved to Steve's own homes, where Billy could relax. Steve talks about persuading Billy's first wife, Elizabeth, to sit down for the film, about the songs that grew out of their relationship, and about the line from Billy, quoted in the film, that Christian and Steve agree explains the whole catalog: if there's a skeleton key to his work, it's his relationships with other people. As Billy once told Steve, "It's not for you to call yourself an artist. Let someone else call you an artist."WATCH THE FILMBilly Joel: And So It Goes (HBO, 2025), directed by Susan Lacy and Jessica Levin, is streaming on HBO Max: https://www.hbomax.com/show/2abc1a61-f4ac-4b0e-ae84-3cc5a3b53d03In this episode, you'll learn:How a 20-year-old lighting designer became part of Billy Joel's band in 1974Why Billy Joel refused to tell his own story for yearsHow Susan Lacy came to direct And So It GoesHow Tom Hanks, Gary Goetzman, Sean Hayes and Todd Milliner got the film made at HBOWhy Billy Joel agreed to a documentary with no editorial controlHow two co-directors, one classical music lover and one superfan, shaped the filmWhy Billy Joel was interviewed at a piano, and why the location changedHow Steve persuaded Elizabeth to take partWhy relationships are the key to Billy Joel's songwritingHow Susan Lacy builds scenes from stacks of printed transcriptsCHAPTERS0:00 An Interview of a Lifetime2:07 How Steve Cohen Met Billy Joel in 19745:10 The 100th Show and a Five-Hour Film11:48 "Let Someone Else Call You an Artist"13:50 How Susan Lacy Came to Direct18:00 "What Have I Got to Hide?"22:21 Classical Roots and the Holocaust Story25:05 Elizabeth Weber and the Love Songs30:33 Relationships Are the Skeleton Key33:53 Interviewing at the Piano38:15 Stacks of Transcripts and Nonlinear EditingFREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONSWhat is Billy Joel: And So It Goes?Billy Joel: And So It Goes is a 2025 two-part HBO documentary directed by Susan Lacy and Jessica Levin, running about five hours. Its executive producers include Tom Hanks, Gary Goetzman, Sean Hayes, Todd Milliner and Steve Cohen. Billy Joel sat for interviews but had no editorial control, and the film ties his life story back to his songs.Who is Steve Cohen?Steve Cohen is Billy Joel's longtime creative director and lighting designer. He started a lighting company at 20, cold-called managers, and began working with Billy Joel in 1974. He has since designed tours for many other artists, produced the documentary Last Play at Shea, and served as an executive producer of Billy Joel: And So It Goes.How did Susan Lacy get Billy Joel to open up?According to Steve Cohen, Susan Lacy insisted on interviewing Billy Joel at a piano, which Steve calls his security blanket. After a first interview at Billy's house full of distractions, most sessions moved to Steve's homes, where Billy felt at ease. Each interview went deeper, and Billy told her she got him to go places he doesn't normally go.Did Billy Joel have editorial control over And So It Goes?No. Steve Cohen says he told Billy Joel that saying yes meant no editorial involvement and trusting the filmmakers to tell the story. Billy's answer was, "What have I got to hide?" Steve's role was to open doors: arranging interviews, opening the archives, and persuading people like Billy's first wife, Elizabeth, to take part.SPONSORED BY ARTILLERY SPORTSThis episode is brought to you by Artillery Sports, which makes durable sports equipment and uses a portion of its profits to help care for the nation's veterans. Use the code DocFirst for 10% off your first order. https://artillerysports.comLISTEN AND FOLLOWListen and subscribe wherever you get podcasts: https://pod.fo/e/4a7fa3Watch on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@documentaryfirstSUPPORT THE SHOWJoin our community on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/c/DocumentaryFirstCONNECT WITH DOCUMENTARY FIRSTAll platforms: https://linktr.ee/doc1stChristian Taylor on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/meetchristiantaylorABOUT THE GUESTSteve CohenCreative Director for Billy Joel; Executive Producer, Billy Joel: And So It GoesSteve Cohen grew up in Canoga Park, California, and started a lighting company at 20. Billy Joel was his first major client, in 1974, and Steve has been his lighting designer and creative director ever since. He has designed tours and television for many other artists, directed Billy Joel's early music videos, produced the documentary Last Play at Shea, and was the executive producer and lighting designer of the special on Billy Joel's 100th show at Madison Square Garden.ABOUT DOCUMENTARY FIRSTDocumentary First is a weekly podcast about the people behind documentaries and how the work changed them. Host Christian Taylor, director of the award-winning The Girl Who Wore Freedom, talks with filmmakers from Ken Burns to first-time directors. Listen Notes ranks the show in the top 5% of all podcasts worldwide.RESOURCES MENTIONEDBilly Joel: And So It Goes (IMDb): https://www.imdb.com/title/tt36458116/Part 2 of this conversation, on Steve Cohen's own story: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utxNaispGywAmerican Masters, the PBS series Susan Lacy created
