This week, Jason is joined by esteemed British historian and author, Simon Sebag Montefiore, to discuss his latest book, The Cauldron: The Making of the Modern Middle East. Jason and Sebag’s discussion ranges over centuries of history and ping pongs back and forth on myriad topics. It tries to make the peripheral central by putting the non-Arab, non-Sunni groups at the centre of understanding the Modern Middle East.They unpack how the Middle East became the Disorderly region we know today and where to frame current conflicts historically to understand certain deeper dynamics, especially as pertains to minorities and their ambitions for statehood and peoplehood. They focus a lot on WWI and the dynamics that emerged from it and shaped the history of the Kurds, Armenians, Turks, and fleeing Ionian Greeks. These were the dynamics of population transfer and ethnonationalism that destroyed the old Middle East of the Millet System. They try to avoid the overdone Israel/Palestine dynamics which occasionally shed more heat than light. With this framing in place, they look at what tragedies took us to the current pointless and self-defeating Iran war, and where we might go from here.To get part 2 with bonus content, and hear it before anyone else, join our Mega Orderers Club at disordershow.com/clubProducer: George McDonaghSubscribe to our Substack - https://natoandtheged.substack.com/Disorder on YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@DisorderShowShow Notes Links:To get Simon’s book https://www.amazon.co.uk/Cauldron-Making-Modern-Middle-East/dp/1399634895/ For more Disorder about the history of the Middle East, try:What is Zionism and is it still relevant today? Israel’s Independence Day with Phil Rosenberg  https://open.spotify.com/episode/3ug89R0zHLumkldJX5Cmo2And Sir Vincent Fean The Case for Palestinian Statehood: https://disorder.supportingcast.fm/listen/disorder/ep74-part2-the-case-for-palestinian-statehood And the Armenian Genocide Remembrance Day: https://disorder.supportingcast.fm/listen/disorder/ep36-part-i-former-armenian-president-sarkissian-on-armenian-genocide-remembrance-dayThis episode is brought to you in partnership with the New Books Network, for more visit https://newbooksnetwork.com/category/up-partners/disorder