Welcome to ‘Out of Order’ with Mark Lobel. A new series, in partnership with Disorder.Remarkable people, unguarded. Each month, Emmy nominated journalist Mark Lobel meets some of the world’s most interesting people to understand the moments that made them who they are; and where they see hope in our mad mad mad mad world when so much feels out of order.In his most revealing interview yet, Charles Cumming, a master of modern spy fiction, opens up about his work, life and reveals his biggest regret, one that helped shape his spy novels.The duo discuss Charles upbringing - and how being sent to a boarding school at a young age shaped his writing. They also chat divorce-- and how two divorces, that of Charles parents and later himself, still shapes his writing, and why spy novels can call out the crimes and immorality of people like Putin and Trump in different ways that politicians and political commentators.For ad free listening, early release episodes and more bonus content, join our Mega Orderers Club at disordershow.com/club - use the promo code BACKGAMMON50 for 50% off a Mega Orderers membership. Limited time only. There is only one week left to redeem this offer.Producer: George McDonaghSubscribe to our Substack - https://natoandtheged.substack.com/Disorder on YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@DisorderShowShow Notes Links:Get in touch with Mark here https://www.mark-lobel.com/ For more on Out of Order visit https://linktr.ee/outofordermarklobel ICARUS 17: A nailbiting new Lachlan Kite espionage thriller, from Sunday Times bestselling author Charles Cumming: Book 4 (BOX 88)https://amzn.eu/d/06DAbiyU