In today's excerpt, Jillian speaks with Kene Esom about the changing nature of masculinity and the role of male identity, which was part of our larger conversation with Kene on queer inclusion and intersectionalities.Until very recently, Kene Esom was the Director of AMSHeR, African Men for Sexual Health and Rights. He is a Barrister-at-Law advocating for marginalised communities including unaccompanied/separated children, refugees and asylum seekers, survivors of sexual and gender-based violence, and sexual minorities on the African continent. In the full interview, Jillian and Kene discuss the concepts of othering and being "queer", intersectionalities and privilege, and the roles of religion, culture and social justice towards a more equitable and empathetic world. Listen at http://soundpage.fm/courageousconversations/7137.