A detailed examination of historical records showing patterns of relationships between local women and occupying forces during major conflicts. The discussion covers data from World War I occupations in France and Belgium, World War II cases including France and Japan, and comparisons between hostile and allied occupations. It explores evolutionary psychology factors, cooperation studies, genetic ancestry evidence, and implications for group dynamics.
The conversation also addresses male behavior in similar contexts, biblical references, and long-term strategies for post-conquest stability. It draws on primary sources, historian estimates, and experimental research to provide context on these recurring historical patterns.
Episode Transcript
Malcolm Collins:Hello, Simone. I’m excited to be here with you today. In the, manosphere, one of the common topics is how women like to sleep with the enemies... The invading enemies during war. And I had heard this historically, and my take on it was... I mean, I guess, maybe, but I decided to do a bit more of a breakdown of this, get the actual numbers. How much of a population comes from this? Why do women do this? Why do we let a population that has a propensity for facilitating the enemy vote in our elections? What would these women likely do if asked to vote on policies like in Well, it’s just... Oh, boy.
Simone Collins:Oh, why are we...
Malcolm Collins:Oh. When I went into this data, the thing that really surprised me, because what you could argue is this is just a function of having a large army within a territory for a period. Right? But if we break down different instances, like the American occupation of France versus similar time window, the Nazi occupation of France, because America occupied France as we were pushing back the Nazis, the French women barely married or had kids with the Americans, whereas they did it in huge numbers with the Nazis. If we look in the case of Americans because the Americans were stationed in New Zealand, they were stationed in Australia, they were stationed in many places, if you’re talking about the Pacific Theater, barely had any marriages out of that. A huge number, orders of magnitude more when Americans were occupying Japan, like an actual hostile conquest even though they treated them fairly nice during that period. so what we’re seeing here is women seem to have a propensity to get with a specific type of male. But let’s go into it. You’re gonna say something, Simone?
Simone Collins:This is bizarre to me because, of course, I only exist because a French boar bride married an American Okie and had my mom. Right?
Malcolm Collins:I think that’s okay. I think it’s fine to marry into a force liberating your country. I think it is quite a different thing
Simone Collins:to worry Didn’t the Nazis frame it as, like, I’m coming to liberate France from your Frenchness or something?
Malcolm Collins:They almost did. They almost did. Say, lovey, look at France today allowing itself to be looted and massacred.
Simone Collins:It’s not looking very good for them. You know, you gotta you gotta say it’s
Malcolm Collins:You think about all these... Like, all the, Irish terrorist organizations to earn their independence only to sell out their country, like, a generation later.
Simone Collins:Yeah.
Malcolm Collins:For real. It is it is wild to me, these historic conflicts reframed. But let’s get into it. I’m gonna start with one of the lesser known examples so we can go into it Yeah. Which is a World War one interwar period between 1914 and nineteen thirties, the occupied Northern France and Belgium region, that led to the term femmes et broches. German occupation of Belgium, and 10 French departments precluded extensive contact between women and German soldiers. Diaries from the period mentioned these relationships frequently to the point where they are actually mentioned in two thirds of all diaries surveyed.
Simone Collins:Are you serious?
Malcolm Collins:That’s No. Mentioned, that doesn’t mean that they weren’t mentioned approvingly.
Simone Collins:Oh, like, maybe their friend Yeah. He was But it was
Malcolm Collins:a common part of life.
Simone Collins:That is bizarre. I just figure you... One, if you were involved with a foreign invader male that maybe your entire community would think that you’re a spy and ostracize you? And then two, wouldn’t you get in trouble for doing that with the foreign invading?
Malcolm Collins:Of these women were ostracized later, but let’s go into numbers here. Okay?
Simone Collins:Okay.
Malcolm Collins:So, there were roughly 6,000 in Belgium and 10 to 20,000 in the occupied French departments, often registered as father unknown or illegitimate birth. This is for how many children were born as a result of this. To understand how much of, impact this had, Douai, one of the districts, saw birth rates go from... In prewar, they were around ten percent, okay, to during the war, note, the local men are gone during the war, okay, to twenty to thirty eight percent.
Simone Collins:That... That’s like a... That’s almost a third.
Malcolm Collins:You mean that’s more than tripling, almost quadrupling if the 38%
Simone Collins:is for a number of birth is right and at
Malcolm Collins:least doubling the birth rate is. Well, all the local men are away. That’s So, again, not a simple phenomenon. no. No. Sure. This was a heavily occupied district where you didn’t see this as much in the rural areas where you didn’t have any... As many standing troops and stuff like this. So it didn’t have as big of a neg... Genetic impact. So historian Emmanuel Dettour estimates that there were 15 to 20,000 rapes during this period. That said, there were over 50,000 instances of sexual contact. So that means that the rape... You say this is downstream of rapes. It’s not downstream as a rape. Detroit’s core primary source with a corpus of 110 private diaries kept by civilians, about the intimate relationships with German soldiers, which, again, were in two thirds of them. the dominant mentions are, sort of moral panic, and they were thought of as traitors from a brochures or affiliates brochures or worse. a common, motif appears in the diaries where local girls or women are visibly upset when particular German units left. one formulation that surfaces is the observation of girls were seen crying when the soldiers departed.
Simone Collins:Oh my gosh. Wait. Wasn’t this a theme in the sound of music? Wasn’t, one of the older girls super all about, what was his name, Hans or Frans or something?
Malcolm Collins:Yeah. And what the women would often do is they’d flee to some town where they weren’t known afterwards, so the kid wouldn’t be known as the descendant of a Nazi. But in studies after this period, they represented the children as German fathers, 1.5% of the population.
Simone Collins:Oh my gosh. It was the uniforms. Okay.
Malcolm Collins:There’s see this in other instances as well. I’m just I’m just pointing out, this is more of a thing than people often lead on. Now let’s, contrast this, okay, with The United States numbers. Alright? So US soldiers in France and Britain and Rhineland formed relationship with thousands of marriages. While exact totals are uncertain, these range from only 5,000 to 18,000, with one number or in figure is 6,000 bona fide marriages. so very, very low when contrasted with the French. And what’s interesting is that the Americans wanted to get married and form families. Whereas with the Nazis, we only know of about 13, like, a handful, like, in the teens of Nazi soldiers who actually married a local person.
Simone Collins:Could this be a timing thing? I mean, because my grandmother, for example, met my grandfather after the war was over when the Americans were still in Paris. Like, presumably, you’re into family formation when the wartime is over and not so much in the middle of the
Malcolm Collins:It’s part a policy thing in American attitude thing.
Simone Collins:Also, you’re saying, …
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