Kate and Jess met in their first mothers’ group when their daughters were just days apart — navigating newborn life, sleep deprivation and the shock of early motherhood side by side.

In this episode, Kate shares her experience with two very different babies and how her mindset around sleep changed dramatically between them. With her first daughter, Isabelle, sleep became something she felt she had to get “right” — often at the expense of getting out, living life and protecting her own mental health. With her second baby, Oscar, she approached things completely differently.

We talk about reflux, tongue ties, dummy runs, split nights, toddler bedtime chaos, and the reality that even “good sleepers” come with their own challenges. Kate also reflects on the pressure parents can feel to control sleep — and how reframing babies as humans (not problems to solve) completely changed her perspective as well as the strain on her relationship from sleepless nights.

This is a conversation about learning as you go, adapting to your child’s temperament, and finding more freedom in motherhood the second time around.

Find us on Instagram: @awakeat3am.podcast & @sophiassleepschool