Are progressives right to get so excited about Jacinda Ardern? She’s won admiration for her handling of the COVID crisis and the massacre in a Christchurch mosque – and for crushing New Zealand’s equivalent of Ukip. Toby Manhire, editor of The Spin-Off in NZ and former Guardian comment editor, joins us from Auckland to explain what New Zealand has got right and wrong – and what Britain can learn from Ardern’s “relentlessly positive” Kiwi revolution. 

Presented by Ros Taylor. Produced by Andrew Harrison. Assistant producer Jacob Archbold. Music by Kenny Dickinson. Audio production by Alex Rees. THE BUNKER is a Podmasters Production

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