Donald Trump annihilates the language of democracy even as he campaigns to destroy its institutions – and in this, he’s just like Putin. In a podcast unlike any we’ve recorded (complete with live thunderstorms), the author of Surviving Autocracy MASHA GESSEN talks to Dorian Lynskey about the lies designed to purely to bully, the perils of the next Trump… and why we might come out of the populist mess better than we went in.

Produced and presented by Andrew Harrison. Assistant producer Jacob Archbold. Music by Kenny Dickinson. Audio production by Alex Rees. THE BUNKER is a Podmasters Production

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