Keziah Gutierrez: And I also knew in the back of my mind that my dad is getting older, my mom is getting older. McGill Onate: Once that kind of clicked to me, I was like they know so much more why am I trying to do everything myself? Hannah Limon: I’m strong now because of you two. Katrina Nicole Espiritu: Wait, I’m not crying. I’m just— Taylor Joy Lagpacan: Why am I getting so emotional right now?!  [Show intro]  Kez: Welcome to the Heart and Soul podcast, where we have honest conversations that nurture our souls. Today we’re talking about relationships with our parents as adults. As we enter adulthood, entering college or getting a first job, first apartment, our first bills, we begin to build a life for our own one that becomes a blueprint of how our lives should be. We decide who we spend our time with and what we spend our time on. But the question is, as an adult, what about our relationship with our parents? So let’s talk about it. I’m Kez G, your host for today’s episode. Let’s have a Heart and Soul conversation. [Music]  Kez: I am also joined by my co-hosts today from all over the world. McGill, from Canada, Katrina from the Philippines, Hannah from California, and Taylor from San Diego.  Co-Hosts: Hello. Hi.  Kez: And of course, we’d like to welcome Brother Donald Pinnock, a Minister of the Gospel in the Church Of Christ. Hello, Brother Donald!  Brother Donald Pinnock: Hi. This is going to be a very, very interesting and insightful conversation for sure. Kez: So today we’re talking about our parents, our relationship with our parents. Especially now as we’re all living in our 20s. We’re all 20 years old and above, and all of us, all your co-hosts are in different stages.  And, you know, in movies, once you graduate high school, we hear about, or the movies show people our age packing our things, moving out to colleges or leaving the nest and then going out there in the world and doing our own thing. So here’s a question I’d like to ask us to start us off: Thinking about your own relationship with your parents, how involved are your parents in the decisions that you make as a young adult? I’m actually going to start off with Taylor, how [is] your relationship with your parents? And when you started, you know, start making your own decisions? you know, buying your first car and everything. How involved were they? Taylor: Very involved is the quick answer. I would…I feel like it’s safe to say that my parents have been very involved with my decisions, you know, forever, my entire life. And, you know, I feel like I’ve just continued as I grew into adulthood. But right now, at this point in my life, you know, I’m working, I’m trying to become more financially stable on my own. And at this point, I feel like my parents are definitely not as involved as they were, let’s say 2 or 3 years ago, but they are still involved in the sense that they ask me, every now and then, like how I’m doing with work, how I’m doing in terms of reaching my financial goals, other goals in my life. So, they’re still very involved in the sense that they show me that they’re still interested in what’s going on in my life, but they’re not going to pry for answers from me.  Kez: I’m similar as well. They just ask me how I’m going with my adult life. When I was younger, I would ask, you know, can I, can we eat out at a restaurant and my mom would say, you have food at home and now as an adult. I mean, the other day I was pretty much driving back home from work, and I saw, like, a fast food joint, and I’m like, I’m kind of hungry right now. Like, you know, Should I get some junk-Should I get some, like, you know, some food on the way? Because it is just on the way home. And I just thought to myself, do I want to spend $12 on a large meal when I, when at home, I can just literally cook the same thing? Taylor: So relatable. I feel that every single day, Kez!  Kez: Yeah! And then I told and I found myself going, oh, I have food at home I like. And I just drove. I was like, no, I didn’t stop for the fast food restaurant. And then I just think, oh, I owe my mom a huge apology for all the times I like, begged her and she and I would go “You never treat me out. Why? I don’t want food at home.” I understand now. I’m like, I’m not wasting 12 bucks like that. $12 can go for something else, you know. Taylor: I love how my conversations with my parents like it clearly shifted. I could feel a clear shift. As I started entering adulthood. Specifically, I noticed this shift once I started working, you know, like making my own money and start, building a financial foundation for myself. That is the time my conversations with my parents started feeling so adult. That’s the best way I can describe it. My mom and I, we just started talking, prior to me working, my mom never really delved into her work life with me. Like telling me things that are going on in her work or goals that she has in her career. But then when I started working, that’s something we would bond over, us talking about what’s going on in our offices. Like she would tell me what’s going on and I would tell her, of course. Yeah, I’m experiencing something similar at my work. So it was cool that…I could there was something else my mom and I could talk about and with my dad. Oh, definitely. My dad is actually, he is an accountant in terms of his work, and he specializes in taxes. So you can imagine we started having lots of tax conversations. So, I appreciate how my parents have recognized that I am at that much more mature stage in my life. You know, where I don’t necessarily rely on them for everything I can provide for myself for certain things. And, in response to that, they understand that they can talk to me, much more maturely.  Kez: And I know Hannah, you actually live away from your parents. Am I still correct on that?  Hannah: You’re correct! So actually, I am…well, I’m still living in my family home here in San Diego. And, like you’ve mentioned, Kez, my parents, they’re actually, in another country for my dad’s line of work. So actually, when the time came, when I moved away for college, I went to another city, in Irvine, which is an hour away. they were still involved here and there where they would visit me. They would already, provide, you know, any groceries and such, even though I don’t ask. But when it does come to big decisions such as finances, employment, past relationships, challenges or decisions, I would always defer to my parents. But for them, it’s more of, they know I’m independent enough to make my own decisions, but they always reassure that they’re there for support and to, you know, guide me. They’re not as forceful or like what Taylor said to pry, like, you know, what do you need? What do you need? Help? What are you struggling with? So, you know, I appreciate that independence because of course, you know, as dire as it sounds, of course, they may not be around as long Kez: And what about you, Kat?  Kat: My parents are pretty involved as well, so I’m always consulting my decisions when it comes to work and the Church. So I’m always consulting them and they’re likely to give me such advice that I need too, so that I can decide not only on my own, but also depending on what they advise to me. That’s our relationship with my parents. Kez: And McGill, what about you? Did you have something similar where you had to make choices or and your parents stepped in to help out? McGill: Yes, actually, in terms of like, career paths, and everything, God bless my parents, they are like, honestly couldn’t ask for anything, like, more, because what they really did and helping me choosing my career path for me, as I’m, you know, as we all are, I’m sure there’s been a point where, you know, we’re trying to figure out what we want to do with our career path, what we want to have as a future job.  And for me, I really didn’t know what I wanted to be. I had completely no clue in school. I was just doing my academics, and whatnot, I didn’t really have something that sparked interest.  And so, when choosing a college or university, I asked my mom, “What should I do? I really don’t know what I want to do” My mom, but she said, she said to me, “Oh, how about try IT, Information Technology. You like computers right?” And I really didn’t have anything against that, because I had no idea what I wanted to do.  So I went ahead into go into IT, and I absolutely did not like it. And I studied for like a month, a month! And then I got out of there!  God bless my parents, they were super supportive of me. They’re like: “Hey, if you don’t like it, you don’t like it and then you just find something else.”  So over the course of maybe a couple of months, trying to find myself, I was just working, I was talking to a sister in the Church. And they, they mentioned to me like: “Hey, don’t you like video games? Why don’t you get into video games and video game development?”  And I’m just like I never really thought of that. Yes, I enjoy video games. I never really thought about creating them. And so I did some research and then I brought I’d have to my parents, like, hey, what if I actually get into video game development?  And they’re just like, hey, if you find that there’s something that you like more than IT, go ahead.  Kez: Well actually, McGill, I wanted to ask a follow up question for that. And you’re, you know, like those more creative fields, like video games, and animation, those are, you know, they’re quite competitive in the field from what I know. And I’m sure you know as well. How did you feel when you first approached your parents going, ‘I want to change to like a career in video games?’  McGill: Yeah, that’s actually a really great question. Because I’m sure maybe for a lot of the viewers here, maybe thinking, oh, I want to switch career paths by might be afraid to go up to my parents and ask that question. Can I change career paths?  For me, the relationship with my parents is very—I’m not sure the exact word but it’s, it’s so—it’s very mutual and understanding. It’s like, if I have something on my mind, I’m free to tell them because they can understand what I’m saying. So, yeah, my parents, they, they make me feel safe. In conversations like that. Kez: That’s actually really cool, McGill! I’m so glad that your parents were so supportive. We love our parents. We love our parents. And this podcast is here to tell you why.  I just want to go back to what we mentioned earlier. Where all our parents give us advice. I just wanted to ask this question: When we were given advice by our parents and how much and anyone can answer after I ask this question, how much do we apply the advice that our parents give us or are there times where you go, “thank you for the advice, but I feel like this is where I’m sure of what I should do”?  Hannah: I’ve mentioned before, I’m a teacher, and there’s things that I’m knowledgeable about that my parents might not know. I’m not saying that they’re not as knowledgeable in the education field. They both worked in their careers a lot longer. So there’s some things that are sometimes. Yeah, I’ll follow that. I’ll talk to my boss and confront them about this. And there’s times where I’m like, whoa, I need to actually rethink that because that’s probably not the right way to go. So there’s those specific things that I have to consider whenever I consult my parents. Something that’s helped me over time is just to be clearer with my communication. So I do my best to explain to them, for them to understand of my situation. It also helps me with making decisions because ultimately what they’ve told me as well I’m trying to finalize or stabilize my finances and build off a career and eventually have my own family one day. So, of course, these decisions, practicing making these decisions on my own, it’s good practice at this time. But of course, knowing that my parents are always there to support and if anything, I have my prayers to rely on and especially the teachings we hear in the Church to, you know, know how to make these decisions. Kez: That’s interesting, Hannah, that you mentioned that, if I could probably tell my own story. For me, I had some idea of what I wanted to do. And my mom and dad kind of sat me down and they were like, it’s your choice what you want to do. However, they wanted me—they wanted me to make sure that whatever I decided to do, it has to help the Church in some way. And so I know my mom and dad we’re always thinking in a more practical side, you know? Is that going to help you financially or is that going to help you with your stability in the future? And those are concerns that are, for me, quite important now that I am in my late 20s and I am living on my own, and I understand the importance of financial stability, I understand now where they were coming from.  But they were sort of just advising, suggesting, if there’s something you’re going to do, make sure that it’s helpful for the Church. Because I was also born and raised in the Church Of Christ. And that is the integral part that is the central thing of our family. Whatever we do in the outside world, that is a supplementary. I mean, it is my, you know, livelihood, but it has to help the Church in some way. And so that was the suggestion and the advice that they gave me. And so that actually kind of helped me when it came to decision making. I became a teacher, which is really close to it. Still the best thing. and it’s actually the best thing because, like, everything I do in teaching, I can apply to the Church, you know, and in a way, for me, I felt like that was my parents guiding me, not only, as I grow up, but also in my spiritual care. And so I wanted to bring that now to you Brother Donald. Brother Donald, you’ve heard how our parents play a role in our lives in terms of career and educational advancement. What does the Bible say, then, about the role of parents? Brother Donald: Well, we all know that when it comes to parents, they play an integral role in the development of their child or children. And the Bible substantiates that. Invariably, the parents, they are like the first role models that the children learn from. Also copy and then emulate. And that’s why when it comes to the parents in the Church Of Christ, they strive to implement this following Bible teaching that we can read in Proverbs 22 and the verse is 6 and the following is stated: Teach a child how he should live, and he will remember it all his life. [Proverbs 22:6 Today’s English Version] Brother Donald: Parents then, they strive to impress upon the young children the kind of behavior or conduct that is acceptable and being part of the learning process we have to admit to, especially when children are young. It’s very normal for children to make mistakes. And that is why this is a part of the parents rearing their children in order for their children to be not only role models in society, but most especially when it comes to serving the Lord our God. That’s why the children, they learn from even a young age how they should behave. They also gain those invaluable values when it comes to Christian or spiritual morals. And because the parents do this to their children when the children are young, inevitably, when the children grow up, they have nurtured those qualities. And that is why when it comes to parenting, in truth, it’s not just when the child is young, but it will continue even when the children are older. That’s why it’s really heartwarming to hear from all of you when it comes to how your parents interacted with you, especially when it came to that next stage of your life. What are you going to study in university or college? Do you have a career goal? And then parents even suggesting and not dictating, but suggesting, when it comes to avenues of further education that can lead to, a stable career when it comes to, income, when it comes to, again, not being hindered when it comes to serving and worshiping God. So, you know, it’s just heartwarming to hear from all of you when it comes to what parents have done in your life so far. Kez: Thank you so much for that, Brother Donald. And it’s true. Our parents are with us no matter how old we are. And so, there was this interesting article I read from Pew Research Center. An article called “Parents, Young Adult Children and the Transition to Adulthood”. And there [were] a bunch of statistics in there and a lot of those statistics actually quite surprised me. And I’ll just read to you some of them.  So, according to the Pew Research Center, parents are involved in their young children’s lives. Majority of parents say that they, the parents text or message or talk on the phone with their child. 73% of them text their child, and 54% of them talk to their child on the phone, at least a few times a week. About 6 in 10 or 59% say they’ve helped their children financially in the past years. A majority of young adults, which is, I think, 20s and 30s, 69% say that they can be their true self around their parents all or most of the time. 41% of parents say that their young adult children rely on them a great deal on a fair amount for emotional support. Kat: Yeah, I actually can relate to you guys and with the percentage that was in the survey, I was not a young adult to realize it even in a fair amount of emotional support. Because when I, when I got into a like when I got consulted, things that I should consult to support me emotionally, I didn’t get the comfort that I need. But, okay I realize that they can provide it spiritually. They can say, just pray, just ask for help from God. Just like that. But emotionally, I’m just dealing [with] it alone. I wasn’t going to consult with my parents again. Because I think I would be invalidated like that. So. But it’s okay. It’s okay. And they can do it with a prayer a lot because I have devotional prayers. And then I trust God that this is a challenge for me so that I can rely more on Him like that. McGill: You know, that’s really funny, actually, because, you know, hearing the whole conversation about going to our parents for some emotional support, my family dynamic, or at least my relationship with my parents, we actually don’t do that too much. Like very, very rarely do we ever do that. Which is again, not really a bad thing. Like even like for me, in my heart, I’m not necessarily bothered by that. Actually, I kind of don’t want to do that because, I actually don’t know the reason exactly or the reason why I kind of if I do look for emotional support, I would look for it in maybe my close friends or maybe even to myself because, I feel like that sort of connection, it’s much more easily understood because of our generation. And with our parents, they’re coming from a different generation, much more older generation, they might not understand the problems or mental issues that we may have.  But then there’s this one point, in my previous romantic relationship where things weren’t going too well and, my mental wellbeing and, just my stress level was very high. And then ultimately the—that relationship did come to an end. And when it did come to an end, I did go straight to my mom to tell her, what has happened, although I’ve never really told her anything previously up until that point. And God bless. She was there with an open ear, listening and giving her humble inputs. And from there, actually, from that point, I am much more open to talking to her. It was very scary at first because I’ve never tried this before, but slowly I understood my parents. They’re a lot older than I am. They have a lot more experience when it comes to relationships. Jobs, anything really.  Kez: We forget that, you know, we just see them as we really—we see them as mom and dad and that is it. But we forget that they are humans with years of experience.  McGill: It’s so crazy to think about, like once that kind of clicked to me, it’s like they know so much more. Why am I trying to do everything myself? If I do need some sort of support or some sort of guidance in something, why not go to my parents. Kez: We love that, McGill. And it’s really interesting to notice that our family dynamic is something that we often kind of look over our heads because we’re just part of the family. But now that we’re a bit older, I’m realizing from your responses that our family dynamic allows us to kind of have that special kind of communication with our parents. Taylor’s mom and your own parents, too, McGill. But Hannah, I wanted to ask you a question. What about for parents who aren’t as geographically or physically close to us? And Hannah I know you mentioned to me before how your parents actually are in a different country. And could you tell us a little bit about that, your experience in navigating, and I’m sure there are moments where you probably felt like you needed mom and dad. And so how did you handle that? Hannah: Oh, yes. Well, I just want to preface Kez, again, just tying it back to when I moved away from college and lived an hour and a half away from home. I felt that experience prepared me for this long distance means of communication and seeking their emotional support whenever I would need it. And for me, in a way, this benefited me and challenged me at the same time. Because growing up, having that emotion of support, I feel I can sympathize with what McGill said. I felt that it wasn’t as common, it was very rare. Whenever we would have to actually sit down and talk about feelings or me opening up to them about what was going on, especially in high school. I think that was just a really pivotal time when I really struggled to be open about sensitive things.  And now being an adult why it matters so much of what I need to say and what—I don’t want to say, what doesn’t need to be said, but more so emphasizing of being intentional of what I need from them and what kind of guidance I am looking for. Usually whenever I would need to communicate to them through a message that’s when I can actually sit down and really be specific on what I need to ask. I can say, you know, mom, I need you to call me whenever you can. I just need to talk about something that’s really stressing me out. And just being really specific because I’ve told them from time to time, you know, I, you know, I want your advice. But then there’s times if I’m being too overwhelmed or trying to make decisions, I may not have enough mental capacity to reconsider another decision because there’s just so much going around in my head.  And I think there is one moment where my mom really understood that. She didn’t need to reconfirm, but she just saw how broken I was. And she came home and she just saw me locked up in my walk-in closet, just sobbing. And I told her, like, I don’t know what to do. Like I just need some time. Give me space to think of what to do next. And then after that, my mom suggested, okay, let’s go eat out. And it helped out because I felt less pressure to really open up to her. We were in a public space. But she really understood my wishes. She gave me the space, and I felt that just elevated our connection with each other in terms of emotional support. Where I was specific with my words and I told her what I needed and she was there to support me. Versus, interjecting like, do you need this? Do you need that? Like, tell me what’s going on? Because for me as a person, that’s too overwhelming and it wouldn’t benefit what I need from them. You know, it’s just going to clash. And I feel it matters because I think there’s some adults out there, even those my age or those younger, that struggle with this a lot, where their–their communication with their parents, it’s not so good. You know, maybe there’s some that they’re distant from them. They don’t even consider them on a daily basis. And of course, if they have the chance to be far away from their parents as much as possible, they think, hey, well, it’s my own life. But for me, since we are in this situation it really forces me to really make these decisions on my own. And of course, when I need to finalize that decision, I always turn to prayer and meditate upon it to God. And still update my parents, like, okay, this is what I decided it doesn’t go this way. This is the other alternate route. And you know, they’re there to, you know, give me the thumbs up, like, okay, or give their advice. And of course, how it’s helped where I’m at in my faith with what I’m doing in the Church. All the different ways I’m staying, active, checking in with myself, I have the Church to thank for. Because of course, in the four years I was away for college, I was surrounded with a loving, local congregation, meeting new brethren who were also in the same situation as me being away from my parents and just really navigating that time to put on those big girl shoes. Kez: I realize that it does no good to anyone hiding. Hiding our emotional—our feelings from our parents, because it’s not good for us, emotionally as well. But I wanted to throw this question to Brother Donald. As young adults, as young people in this world, why should we still seek advice from our parents?     Brother Donald: First and foremost, I want to make mention of what Brother McGill said earlier. And in fact, he also answers your question. Sister Kez the reason why we should reach out to our parents, especially if we’re facing different kinds of challenges, is because they just have a plethora of life experiences. They have just had to deal with life a lot longer than the children. And even though it was also mentioned earlier that perhaps there may be parents who don’t understand because the circumstances are different. You know, this is now. And when they were young people, that was then. But at the same time again, when it comes to parents, especially those inside the Church, because they kind of grew up listening and hearing the words of God and trying to implement them they can give not just sound, but wise admonitions just to guide the children when it comes to making those major, major decisions in their life. And another thing I want to mention, too, is that, when it comes to, those children or young members of the Church who may even say that they don’t really have the greatest of communication when it comes to their parents. It’s like that communication has been severed in ways. Well, the question I ask is, well, what are we trying to do when it comes to mending the fence or, you know, reestablishing that communication with our parents? We definitely should pray, let’s pray to God. Let’s ask God to help us when it comes to reconnecting with our parents, when it comes to our line of communication, because they do have something that they want to let us know of, we can approach them when it comes to any kind of situation, and they will have some sound advice, especially when they see that the children are reaching out. You know, parents who really love their children, that they want to help. And that’s why, you know, we can even read here in, Proverbs 1, 8 to 9 and it states the following: Listen, my child, to what your father teaches you. Don’t neglect your mother’s teaching. What you learn from them will crown you with grace and clothe you with honor. [Proverbs 1:8-9 New Living Translation] Brother Donald: So even if when it comes to children, they reach young adulthood, perhaps they are embarking on their post-secondary education. They’re entering college and or university. Perhaps for others, they finished those courses. We can still learn so much about life from the parents. Parents may not be so tech savvy nowadays. You know, when it comes to the younger members of society, even children, you give a child a cell phone or an electronic gadget, and then, they’ll just go through it, you know? Yeah, I have seen young babies pick up a cell phone. And of course, they’re imitating their parents. They see their parents swiping on the screen, and these children are swiping on the screen, they’re accessing. But, again, when it comes to parents, based on their experiences in life, they can greatly aid their children or the younger generation to make wise decisions in their own lives and thus avoid regrettable decisions. So that’s why I want to also mention, again, let’s try to do our best for all of the younger generations of the Church members, and even those who are not yet members of the Church. Let’s try to do our part to reach out to our parents. If there was some kind of communication gap that has been developed over the years because they’re still with us. They may not be with us forever, but they’re still with us now. And since they’re still with us, you know, let’s show that A) we really appreciate their sacrifices and their efforts and B) we’re prepared to listen to their admonitions and advice and have those kinds of conversation so that they can also learn from us. What is our feeling, what is it that we would like to do that doesn’t violate God’s will, but it’s something that we’re thinking about when it comes to our future, our career. And through that, two way communication and conversation, all the more we can make, the most of the time that we still have with our mother and or father. And most especially for parents inside the Church, all the more to solidify our faith and trust in God. Kez: Thank you so much for that, Donald. And it kind of hit home to me when you mentioned something about, we should value our time with our parents. I mean, for myself, my parents are getting older, and because I am also getting older, it’s the quiet love that my parents don’t show me. We talked earlier about how, for us, it’s we wonder how our parents take in and we wonder how our parents will take it when we ask them for advice and we may share with them our decisions. But you know that made me notice what happens behind closed doors. What my parents do for me without me seeing and one of them is praying for me. I knew about that. I knew they were doing that, but hearing it from my mom and dad, like, really hit home to me.  And I also knew in the back of my mind that my dad is getting older, my mom is getting older. So I wanted to ask, are you okay? Not just physically, like, are you all right? And so I was actually concerned about my own parents as wellbeing too. It’s not just the other way around. I expressed to them too that, “Mom, I’m also worried about you guys. It made me also think, I’m so far away from you, how am I supposed to take care of you?”  And so I wanted to bring that question out to you guys. And, Kat, I wanted to ask you this question. First off, why is it still important to take care of our parents? Kat: It is really important that we take care of our parents. Because, growing up to a young adult now, like now as a young adult, we know that our parents had a lot of sacrifices, especially here in the Philippines. It’s a developing country, it’s a poor country. So they had a lot of sacrifices for us to provide our daily living, to provide things that we need, especially on performing our Church duties.  So, as they take care of us, as they guided us through our lives, especially on being involved always in the Church, this time they’re getting older. It’s time for us to give back those care, those efforts that they gave to us from before. Because, their endless love, their endless support, always keep us, getting on what we are now. And now this is the time to take care of them, too. I can say that we cannot get back all of the efforts that they gave us before. But we can make our very best to take care of our parents now.  Kez: Thanks for that, Sister Kat. And. Yeah, I totally agree. You know, our parents did so much for us, and now I think it’s time for us to give back. And so I wanted to actually just throw that question as well to you, Taylor. Taylor: In short, I feel like it’s important to take care of our parents because they took care of us, and they’re still taking care of us. I think we’ve gathered from this discussion so far that no matter how old we’re getting, as we continue to progress in our adulthood and in our lives, our parents seem like they want to make it clear to us that we’ll always have them on our side if we ever need them. They will always be there for us. If we have questions or if we need advice, they want to be there for us and they make that very clear. So I feel like the least we can do is to show our care for them as well, for that, for their continuous love and care for us. And I feel like we’re also getting to this point where we’re realizing that our parents are not just our parents, right? They’re also fellow adults. And it’s kind of weird to think of it in that sense, because we spent our entire childhood looking up to our parents as, like our heroes, the ones who fix all of our problems, the ones who can help us when we’re hurt, when we have a boo boo and we need it to be healed, we go to our parents crying. And that’s how we’ve seen them for so, so long. And then when you enter adulthood, you realize they kind of go through some of the struggles that you’re also going through now. Like my parents also file taxes, I file taxes. We’re probably all worrying about financial things and our livelihood. So thinking about it in that sense, right? Our parents are fellow adults. I’m sure we all are more than willing to show our care for our friends, right? Our fellow young adults. Almost in that same sense, we should have that same desire to show our care for our parents, because they’re also, at the end of the day, they’re also adults. Still learning about some things as well. Still, just trying to make it each day, just like us. I feel like the fact that we can relate to them in more ways now as young adults really, shows that we kind of go through some similar struggles and, we can help each other out in a sense. Kez: I think that’s super important as well to remember the fact that our parents are also still learning. We’re living in a very fast paced world, where things are constantly evolving, constantly changing, technology wise. And so I think sometimes we have to slow down and remember, like we said, Taylor, to take care of our parents and check in on how they’re doing. And so, Brother Donald, I wanted to also bring that question to you as well. what does the Bible say about us taking care of our parents when we get older? Brother Donald: It’s not easy watching one’s parents become elderly. You know? They’re not so energetic anymore. They spend more time just sitting there reflecting on life. Their mobility is challenged. And sadly, some parents become sickly. But as the children witness their parents getting older, they indeed have an obligation, coming from the Lord our God, as stated here in 1st Timothy 5 and the verse is 4: But if a widow has children or grandchildren, they should learn first to carry out their religious duties toward their own family and in this way repay their parents and grandparents, because that is what pleases God. [1 Timothy 5:4 Good News Translation] Brother Donald: Please notice when it comes to the children, God be willing, the time may come that they will have their own family, they may have their own children. And God be willing again, our parents, at least one of our parents, may still be there. And because of this, we have a duty to repay our parents. We’re not talking about dollars and cents, even though if we can help our aging parents with some of their basic needs, of course we should. But we should definitely repay them in the sense of spending time with them, helping them to feel and hear our sincere love for them. Genuinely trying to meet the golden years of their life is enjoyable and comfortable as possible.  And let’s not forget, time is a very precious commodity. You know, for our listeners, when was the last time for those who still have a parent or parents, when was the last time that we said to them, “Mom, dad, I love you”? When was the last time that we hugged our parents? If physically we are close enough at least to visit them and give them that hug, and just to show to them that, when it comes to their efforts, there’s no perfect parent. You know, parents have to learn as they rear children, and you will go through the same thing too, God be willing, if you get married and you have children, and you’ll find that there’s no book per se. There are many books, but children are unique, you know? And when it comes to the uniqueness of their own child, well some of those books are redundant. But what we can rely on is the teachings of God, because what is most important is that, again, we abide by God’s teachings. And one of those teachings is for children to respect their parents, to love their parents, to listen to their advices and admonitions at the same time, to have that kind of communication with parents when we can really talk from the heart. With respect, we can say this is what I would like to do in my life. I would like to get into theatre. I’d like to eventually be able to be an author, whatever is our heart’s desire. And then with the parent’s guidance and their rationale based again upon the teachings that they received, during worship services, during other Church activities, they can give that sound advice to all the more guide their children. But bottom line is, as we watch our parents getting elderly, they’re getting older, as children again, we should show to express to them before it’s too late. Because again, time is precious—we just don’t know. But you know, before then, let us make our parents feel that all their efforts, all their sacrifices, it was never in vain. We love them so very much, and we appreciate what they’ve done for us. Kez: Thank you so much for that, Brother Donald. And that is something—and we’ve mentioned, all of us, that we are members of the Church Of Christ. We attend worship services where we hear lessons about parents, our family and our duties as children. And even on, @bible.verses.inc on Instagram, and even on INC Media news, like there are posts recently about parents and how they should we should always appreciate them.  So I’m actually gonna throw it to McGill. We go through the same experiences as everybody else. But what makes us unique is we’re members of the Church Of Christ, So what do you think makes an INC (Iglesia Ni Cristo) parent special?  McGill: I think what’s very special to have an INC parent is that, they’ve grown up in the Church or at least know the teachings, and then they had you as a child and from there you’re probably going to the Children’s Worship Service. And from there, that’s where we learn God’s teachings. And then, but through that, maybe there might be some things where we might not understand. I know that there are some of us here that went through the Children’s Worship Service, and there might be some things that is hard to understand. That’s where our parents come in. When they are INC, they can further teach us more of what it is to be inside the Church. And having an INC parent, having an Iglesia Ni Cristo parent, can really help us understand what it is to become—to be a member of the Church Of Christ.  And I think that’s, really, really wonderful to have as a child, because, you know, being in the Church, it it is each and every one of us is, most blessed things that have to have that election to have the membership and to further understand it, our parents is are there to help us to to really to, yeah, to really understand why it is important. And, as we are children and as we grow up, we stay on that path. Our parents are guiding us as we grow up and we stay members of the Church Of Christ. As we grow older, it’ll only lead us to success. So really, having an INC parent, there’s a lot of love to be shared. And, they introduce us and teach us further about how to be a member of the Church Of Christ, which is very, very nice.  Taylor: One thing that I’ve noticed from them throughout my life is that they really place a lot of importance on prayer. I’ve noticed that with everything that we’ve gone through in, our life, our family, whether it be, when we were in the process of looking for a new house, a new place to live a couple of years back to, when my brother was recently deployed, just a few months ago to a very foreign country to, my brothers and their education and me finding a job last year. Through all of those events, they really reminded us to turn to God and to ask God for help. And in all of those instances that I just mentioned, they made it a point to pray with us as a family. And that’s the part I really, really appreciate: That they recognize that they as parents can only do so much. It’s really God who’s going to help all of us. And that’s the type of thinking that I’m so appreciative for, and the type of thinking that I always strive to come back to time and time again. Kez: If I could just probably share my own story. My dad is a Minister of the Gospel, and my dad is probably one of the busiest people that I know. And I see him talk about—talk to brethren, lead brethren, and I see him as well also get tired, physically, because he is human. And the one thing I do always notice about my dad is he doesn’t say it, but he just always works so hard. Like, if it’s for the Church, he will do it. If it’s for the Church, he will, no matter—If he has to wake up at 4:00 in the morning or he has to come home late at night. There are times where I’m already in bed, and then that’s when he’s coming home. Or I would wake up in the morning, he’s just about to leave to go to a bible study or to go to worship service and preach. And that’s something that I take away from that. That the effort and the energy that he puts in the Church is so—he, he pretty much gives his own life to it, and that’s the one thing that I want to do. And that’s why for me, when it comes to Church, like it’s not a burden at all, to me it’s nothing that it’s like, oh, I need to—I can’t do this. This is, no I know I will make time. I will make time for Church and so that it is done.  And that’s something that my dad taught me. And he never said it to me. He never taught it to me verbally. He taught it to me through my actions. And that’s just through the closeness and relationship that we have in our parents. Brother Donald, you know, to, to just really tie up this part of our conversation, what makes an INC parent special? Brother Donald: What makes parents in the Church Of Christ so different and so unique is because of the great importance that they give to the teachings of the Bible that have been taught unto us by the Church Administration during worship services and other Church activities. And, of course, they abide by what the Bible teaches, as in Deuteronomy 6, verses 7 and 5. You shall teach them diligently to your children, and shall talk of them when you sit in your house, when you walk by the way, when you lie down, and when you rise up. You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your strength. [Deuteronomy 6:7,5 New King James Version] Brother Donald: So when it comes to the instructions and the advices of the parents in the Church Of Christ, again they’re based solidly on God’s commandments. And when the parents and children alike are living their lives based on the tenets or the decrees of God, then everything bodes well for the family. For example, here in Psalms 128, verses 1 to 4, we can read this.  Blessed is every one who fears the LORD, who walks in His ways. When you eat the labor of your hands, you shall be happy, and it shall be well with you. Your wife shall be like a fruitful vine in the very heart of your house, your children like olive plants all around your table. Behold, thus shall the man be blessed who fears the LORD. [Psalms 128;1-4 New King James Version] Brother Donald: So this is what makes a family in the Church Of Christ so very, very special. From parents to children, they strive their best to live their lives based on God’s teachings. And because of this, the household is blessed, regardless of the children’s age. They continue to exhibit genuine respect and also love for their parents because those parents initially have proven their love for their children ever since those children were born. It’s only right then for children to cherish the time that they still have with their parents, and to prove to the mother and father that when it comes to again their efforts, their sacrifices in raising them, all of their efforts and sacrifices were not in vain.  Kez: And so, and I’m sure with all the stories that all of you have said, McGill, Taylor, Hannah, and Katrina, we need to actually say thank you and appreciate our parents. And so, I’m actually going to start with you Kat, what would you say if Mom and Dad were listening right beside you right now? What would you say to them? Because I’m sure that they will be listening to this podcast. And so why don’t you go ahead and give them a little message for them, just for them?   Kat: Oh to my parents. I know that you’re listening. I just want to thank you and to say that I really appreciate you. Again everything that you have done for us is really great. And I cannot, cannot imagine if I can give it back. But I know how you strive to lead us no matter what. There’s a lot of challenges in life. It’s always you who will lead us in, in the true faith and always, guide us in, in everything that, that will make us better. And even though we’re going or in the adulting period, even though we’re growing up, it’s. Oh, excuse me. Wait, I’m not crying. I’m just—I really don’t I,oh, starting to cry but, but that’s all. I really appreciate you and I hope, I hope I can do such things that will make you feel that I appreciate you a lot and make you feel that everything will be a safe place as soon as we’re together. I love you.  Hannah: To both my mom and dad, I’m strong now because of you two. So you don’t need to worry about what will happen when it comes to what we’re facing right now. And it’s just—we hear that, you know, those words from time to time in different forms, whether it’s from, you know, our close friends, brethren, we know the Church or even our own parents. But saying that in the moment just felt so right. And I would imagine they would tell me that same thing too, you know, in any part of my life, future parts of my life. So of course, whatever you know, you’re going through right now, I’m here. Of course, even if you’ll say so otherwise, I won’t take that as an answer. Sorry, not sorry!  You think I’m going against what you said? But no, I love you all both. And this is my way of just showing how much I thank you and even thank you in words doesn’t seem enough. Well, I hope my actions of what I want to pay back to you both and what I’m doing in the Church now with my current duties and newfound duties, that this is my extension of showing that love, giving that love to Almighty God. So thank you both.  Taylor: Hi mom and dad. I know we don’t verbalize our affection too much in this house, but I just wanted to remind you that I appreciate you two so, so, so much. You both have made it so evident that you’re proud of me for the progress that I’ve made—I’m not going to cry–for the progress that I’ve made in my education when I was still studying, in my career now, and even in my—the roles that I have accepted inside the Church. And I feel how proud you are of me every single day. But I also wanted you both to know that I’m really proud of you too.  I know that you both have your own goals and aspirations in life. Why am I getting so emotional?! I know that you both have your own goals and aspirations in life, and…I didn’t think I’d be the one to get emotional. And I realize the sacrifices that you’ve had to make to raise your children and build a family. I know it probably wasn’t always easy, and it probably still isn’t always easy, but I want you to know that it is what my ultimate goal in my life to take care of you both. As much as you have taken care of me, if at all possible.  So I just want you to know that one day I hope that you feel all the love and the pride that I have in you both as well, and I love you both very much. Thanks.  Kez: I’m not crying, you are. And I think for my own mom and dad, like, the message is clear. Like, I do all of these…I do everything for the Church, because that’s what you taught me. But also, I also do it so that you guys could be proud of me. And, you know, my mom and dad aren’t one to be vocal as well, but, like, little things, like screenshotting every time I’m on INC Media, my dad would screenshot and send to my relatives, it’s so embarrassing. McGill: W dad!  Kez: I mean my dad just sends things and he’s like, “Watch this”. I’m like, oh no, my uncles are going to see all this. But you know, that’s his action. That’s his way of saying, you know, like he’s so proud of what I do for the Church. And like, he always talks about like what I do for INC Media, what I do for my own local congregations. Whatever I do, my mom and dad are always proud of me. And like, so, you know, I just want to say…mom and dad, like, I honestly would not be the person that I am if it wasn’t for you guys. Taylor: It’s okay. It’s okay Kez: And that is all I’m gonna say today! Okay? I need to do it in a thicker accent so I don’t cry. Thank you so much! McGill: That was really touching Kez. I really do want to share a message to my, to my mom and my dad, something that honestly, I want, I want to ask them every single day and tell them every single day—that my message to them is, what are we having for dinner tonight? I’m hungry. Let’s have, let’s have some food to eat and conversations to talk about and to share our love for one another. I love you, mom. I love you, dad. Thank you so much for all of your sacrifices. Thank you so much for your—all of your hard work.  Although I hope I’m not too much of a hassle to be a mother and a father to and all of those little things that you have done for us, even in silence, I do appreciate and I hope that, we just continue our lives and be happy with one another. So, thank you so much. And, yeah, I love you guys. Thank you so much. Kez: Thank you so much, McGill. And just to finish up our discussion for today, Brother Donald, is there any final advice that you would like to give to the youth regarding our parents? Brother Donald: Yes there is. Sister Kez, there’s something I’d like to read here in Proverbs 23, 19 and 22.  My son, listen to me so that you may become wise, and think about the way you live your life. Pay attention to your father who brought you into the world, and do not hate your mother when she is old. [Proverbs 23:19,22 Unlocked Dynamic Bible] Brother Donald: You know, when it comes to those children they should never look down upon their parents. Because it was because of the sacrifices, the toil and sweat of their mother and father that they were gifted in the first place with an education. You know, the parents were there to give the children the reassurance that they could be successful. The parents looked after the children when those children were sick and nursing back to health. And there are times that the parents would they themselves, they are sick, they’re not feeling well. But when they think about the needs of their sons and or daughters, they still go out and they still work. And when it comes to the parents in the Church Of Christ, they diligently inculcated God’s teachings in the heart, mind, and life of their children. So that’s why, again, we mentioned earlier but we have to mention it again. Beloved young members of the Church, while you still have the time before your parents have finished their course, and they’re just awaiting the second advent of our Lord Jesus Christ, may we try to reciprocate in one way or another our appreciation for the efforts and the labors and the love of our parents.  You know, in truth, when it comes to parents it doesn’t really matter per se if the children you know do not attain a high level when it comes to career. They may not be a doctor, you know, they may not be an engineer. But as long as the parents see that their children are respectful, they’re obedient to the teachings of God. They are good citizens, you know, that makes the parents so very, very happy. And that is why, you know, the children we really should take advantage of the time that is left when it comes to showing, expressing, proving our love and our adoration in ways when it comes to our parents. So that when the time does come, that the parents may be laid to rest there’s not going to be any regrets. Because we know in our hearts before that day came, we not only said, even though it’s very important to say it with feeling and we hug our mother, we hug our father. And we really say to them, you know, I love you so much. Thank you so much for everything. Before that day comes, if we’re able to do so, then we will not have any regrets because we will be assured that our parents—they know how much we did care for them, we love them.  And not only that, we can also look forward if our parents are able to complete their course successfully as members of the Church, we can also look forward to do the same so that we can be reunited with them in ways they’re in our true home, the Holy City. Kez: Thank you for the wonderful advice, Brother Donald. And thank you so much. to my co-hosts, Katrina, Hannah, McGill, Taylor, for joining me today and for sharing your stories about your relationship with your parents and for all our listeners who are joining us here today. To anyone listening to our stories. And from what you’ve heard, we hope that you’ve learned something about your relationship with your parents. Remember that no matter what, our parents will always be there for us, no matter how old we are.  Thanks again for joining us. Now, if you want more content, there is so much more to explore, watch and listen on incmedia.org or on the INC Media app, which you can find in app stores. You can also follow us on our Instagram account @heartandsoulconversations for future updates and inspiration. Or if you want to DM us and let us know how this episode helped you, we’d love to hear from you.  Thank you for listening to the Heart and Soul podcast, brought to you by INC Media Audio, where we have honest conversations that nurture our souls. And whatever you’re going through today, remember that you’re not alone and we hope that today’s conversation brought you peace and brought you closer to God. See you next time! 

Kiara Rabara: Okay, maybe this is not what God wants for me yet. Maybe He has another plan for me McGill Onate: So knowing all of that, it’s like I have a safety net and I could freely fall. God will catch me  Marco Mangada: That’s extra time for you to become worthy, or at least be prepared to receive such a blessing. Bernadette Fernandez: And God will show you your way out to a better and happier life. You just got to trust him. [Show intro]  Marco: Hello, everyone. Welcome to the new season of Heart And Soul podcast, where we have honest conversations that nurture our souls. Today we’re asking about how to have patience. Patience in knowing what major to study. Then fast forward in life so we can finally finish school. Then patience in landing the right job. The list goes on and on.  So how can we be patient? While waiting for answers to our prayers. Let’s talk about it. I’m Marco, your host for today’s episode. Let’s have a Heart And Soul conversation. [Music] Marco: And with me today, are co-hosts coming from different parts of the world. Beautiful people coming from Canada, California and Florida. We have McGill, Bernadette and Kiara. Hello, guys!  McGill: What’s up everyone?  Kiara: Hey.  Bernadette: Hi. What’s up?  Marco: Pleasure having you guys right here. Let’s go! Let’s keep this energy going. So, yeah, before we start, I would like for you guys to take a quick moment to breathe in and breathe it out. Can we do it all together, guys? Yeah, let’s do it. Cool. So. Breathe in. Hold it in and breathe out.  So, take it slow. Everything’s going to be okay. We’re here for you. And the reason why we’re saying that is because we know how fast everything is at the moment. And what better way to remind us of the value of patience is having more patience other than to have a conversation with good people. And for spiritual guidance, since this is Heart And Soul, where we always aspire to stay grounded with the teachings from the Bible. We have a Minister of the Gospel, Brother Donald Pinnock. Hi, Brother Donald.  Brother Donald Pinnock: Hey, Brother Marco and everybody else. It’s a great pleasure to be with you in our discussion.  Marco: I am so starstruck at the moment, so let’s keep this going. So there have been a lot of talks about how to achieve certain things in life, be it finding the perfect person to be in a relationship with, getting the perfect job that actually pays well, and maybe graduating in a course that leads you to your ideal career. But the thing that ties all of those together is how you can be patient for all those things to eventually happen. So kind of like an icebreaker to keep the conversation going. What specific event or thing made you be in a situation to be patient or be tested in patience? Let’s start with Kiara.  Kiara: Hello, everyone. So actually very recently, this past year, I found out I was supposed to graduate in December. And, just because of a couple of things, I came up some some issues with school, ended up being pushed to an extra semester, which is like an extra couple, 6, 4 to 6 months and it’s really difficult to try and kind of keep up with that because when you know, you’re super, super close to the goal, like, we’re already in April and I was counting down the months to December. And then another four months got added and it just felt like another year. So like my reaction to having to wait a little bit longer. It was just very, very difficult for me to process. Marco: A follow up question, though, you think people are more impatient when they know what they want, when it’s closely approaching? Kiara: 100%. I do think that people are impatient and speaking from personal experience, being really, really close to the finish line, and then if it gets pushed further away, I think it it adds a lot of feelings that it also kind of discourages you from even wanting to reach that goal anymore, because it’s like if it’s going to take this long, it’s going to take longer. Again, what if this happens again? We’re just extended time. There’s more and more time that’s added to it. And it just kind of built up the impatience.   Marco: And how about you, Bernadette?  Bernadette: I feel like my whole life is patient, randomly, everywhere. I can just. I just can’t even decide what specific situation where my patience was tested. I was looking for a different job; I was originally studying music, and then I switched to media because that was the only way I could graduate on time and not be fined for staying too long in school. And somehow I ended up in the medical field with no background in biology or any health care whatsoever. But there I was, going upstairs to all of these other cancer patients, taking their blood, processing their information, and scurrying down to a fluorescent basement where I just typed all of their results and then sent them off to different companies. And then now I’m at this random job where I somehow ended up in HR, and I’ve never even studied business or anything that has to do with HR. But somehow I ended up there without realising I was applying for that.  Marco: Yeah, that is truly tough. How about you, McGill? You seem to have something in mind.  McGill: I think maybe for this moment right now, I am in a situation where I am going to be patient about something, which is, I’m sure, which is on a lot of other people’s plate is, finding their career job. Currently, I want to look for something in the animation field, in the art field. And right now, I don’t have anything going for me right now. So, constantly, working on my skills in the field and, you know, looking for different places, maybe going on social media, within all of that. Just got to wait for that one day where something amazing will happen and a career job will show itself. But, yeah, that’s kind of what I could think about for me, being patient for something. Marco: So the reason for the question was because of this article that I read relating to people’s behaviour when it comes to patience. So this is an Open Access Research. And you can actually access through journals.sagepub.com. It is a research project called “Impatience Over Time”. It’s by Annabelle R. Roberts. And if you boil down the entire research, there are three factors that can contribute to how someone’s patients could be affected. So, before we go into those three factors where we try to digest everything that could contribute to someone’s impatience, let’s ask what the Bible says. So, Brother Donald Pinnock, what is patience and why is God’s timing something that we should also consider when waiting for the result of a prayer or a full plan?  Brother Donald: Well, if we were to consult the dictionary when it comes to the meaning of patience, we may read the following. The ability to wait or to continue doing something despite difficulties, or to suffer without complaining or becoming annoyed. We know that the Bible often makes mention of the importance of possessing and developing or nurturing the characteristic of patience. Ultimately, when it comes to attaining salvation and as we make our way through this world, patiently waiting for God to answer our many, many prayers, whether it be our prayers for a new occupation, our prayers when it comes to our studies, the list goes on and on. And if anyone would ask why a person should wait patiently for God to answer their prayers, well, He states the following here through the prophet Jeremiah in Jer. 29:11. We can read the following: “For I know the plans I have for you,” declares the LORD, “plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future.” [Jeremiah 29:11] Brother Donald: Please notice that God has the best in mind for His people. Yes, plans for our bright future. Those plans of God are for every aspect of our life. So when it was mentioned earlier about how we were tested, when it comes to patience, let us always remember that the Lord our God does have an answer. All the more we should place our hope and trust in him, and also why we should wait patiently on him for our prayers to be answered”. Marco: Thank you, Brother Donald. So when we go back to actually writing this episode, it actually came from something that Sister Aliw Pablo from Making Changes, you should go check out that podcast, as well. When we were talking about generational differences, one of the major differences was how it seems like the latest generation seems to be more impatient than ever. They change from one career to another, jumping from one need to another. It seems like with all that is convenient in this world, be it getting anything in an instant, ordering food, ordering stuff online, what movie you want to watch. No one really stands in any lines these days; so maybe except going to the grocery store. So I just want to ask you guys, do you agree that people will allow themselves to do more just to achieve what they want as soon as possible? Or will they submit themselves to this whole waiting, doing what they usually do? What do you think, Bernadette? Bernadette: I think it’s very split. It really depends on one’s lifestyle. I notice that a lot of people who are really into social media or, into digesting fast content in general; they have a hard time waiting. And you could definitely see that in the Bay Area in California, where people will drive insanely fast or will cut people off just to reach their exit, when they could have just simply waited a little longer, to reach their exit. But then other people who have other hobbies tend to slow down a little bit more when it comes to daily tasks or tasks at work, or if they’re trying to learn a new skill, they take everything step by step. But yeah, that’s what I’ve noticed. McGill: I actually agree with Bernadette here. But I can say from personal experience, I can tend to be pretty impatient with little sorts of things, like even when driving, like Bernadette says, like if there’s a yellow light, kind of want to go past that, just make it just in the nick of time. Or maybe, I don’t know, learning a skill. I’ve personally been trying to develop skills, getting better at a video game or getting better at my art. And it seems that while I’m trying to do this, it’s a learning process to actually do these things. Like, it’s not going to just happen overnight, right? But I find myself being extremely impatient when I’m trying to learn something and it’s just not going my way.  And I don’t think, maybe I can safely say that, not a lot of people like to wait. Of course, getting something extremely fast would be super awesome. Like, if we’re going to order food, we would love to get that food extremely fast. Like we’re hungry at that moment. I don’t want to wait an hour and a half for my food to get here. Brother Donald: If I can just jump in and add one. Because listening to all of you, it kind of rings a bell when it comes to how technology is causing so many people to be impatient. Because, for example, you need knowledge or information, depending on the kind of phone that you have, you could speak to Siri or you can type in a question and the answer is there. So, a lot of people are becoming impatient and I really think it’s because of technology. We’re so used to having those quick responses that when it comes to waiting in line, you know, you go to a fast food restaurant, you want that food fast. Was it you that mentioned earlier, Brother McGill or Brother Marco, who wants to wait an hour and a half at any rate? Sometimes that overflows into the other aspects of people’s lives, is it not? You know, you want to finish that course. I want to finish it now. I don’t want to wait another six months like Sister Kiara was mentioning. Frustrations also. Right? Sister Bernadette? You’re looking for an answer. You’re looking for success when it comes to a certain endeavour. You don’t get it right away. How do people feel? They feel impatient. And perhaps it’s more, the younger generations, when it comes to, the older, I heard anyway, when it comes to, the elders, more or less, we have more time, so we’re less impatient. Marco: And something to add with that is that we’re more concerned about the effect. And we’re usually getting negative effects because instead of being more patient when it comes to waiting for something, it usually dies down. Right? They become less enthusiastic about doing the things that they need to do in order to achieve a thing, or maybe even getting, what’s the proper term, not excited anymore. They become loose when it comes to that urge when it comes to achieving that thing. And I think this is a perfect segue to one of the factors that we have gotten from this specific research. And this comes from actually a recent happening or a major event in the entire world, which was the pandemic. So just a quick background. There was a study made about how people reacted when the vaccine was released or public. And we all know how that vaccine rollout actually got pushed and pushed for months, even years, just for everyone to receive their dose of the vaccine. And basically, when the vaccine got released, people showed enthusiasm in getting that vaccine. They become excited. They cannot wait anymore to get their turn when it comes to a vaccine. And then it got delayed and then it got released, but only limited to older people and especially the medical workers who are the frontliners. And then they have waited for a few months more just to get their turn for the vaccine. So during those times, people have shown to become more impatient once they were made to wait for a prolonged period of time. Do you actually think people become impatient when they are made to wait for prolonged time? I actually want to direct this question to Kiara.  How does that experience affected you in some way? And do you think this factor became true in your life, especially for that certain experience?  Kiara: Definitely. Having to wait a little bit longer versus, when you expected to get something every season? It makes you very impatient because it’s kind of like what Brother Donald is saying, what McGill was saying, what you were saying, and I mean, and Bernadette, that like when you really, really want something, you want it like this already. But to add on to that and experience it, because I’ve been working towards this for… the past like three years now, and when I was like, okay, yeah, I’m going to graduate in December; it’s going to happen already. Oh no, it’s not going to happen already. Just kidding. It’s happening in another year or another semester. And it’s kind of in a situational stance where because I can’t control the factors that make me need to wait, it’s what makes me impatient. Because it’s things that are uncontrollable.  Kiara: I did everything I could just to see if I could make it, like to just really push it to December. I messaged like the advisors at school. I messaged the department chairs and this. I checked to take these courses at other schools and it was as if I’m just really not meant to graduate in December. And yes, in the beginning it’s very mentally tolling, very sad. I was sad; I was attached for about one month. It was sad because I could not do anything to make it better. McGill: It doesn’t feel that great even when you get it, because your brain has been so excited for it. But then all of a sudden it flops. And then when you do get it, finally, what you’ve been waiting for? It doesn’t. It doesn’t feel great. So I know that’s kind of how I feel about that sort of situation. Marco: So do you think that disappointment is just part of it when you’re made to wait for a period of time for a longer one? Or do you think that’s just a choice that you can probably change?  McGill: I think that’s just built into the human brain; you want something at this time, but then it gets delayed and then you get sad. I think for someone who anticipates the delay to happen can soften the blow of your emotions getting hurt. But that’s kind of how I see it. I don’t really see a way for someone to not get disappointed because there’s something you want, but then you wait. You wait patiently for it, and then it doesn’t come. I think the majority of people can be quite upset at that.  Marco: Going back to Kiara, did you actually achieve the thing that you want, or how are you right now?  Kiara: I’m not doing okay. I’m not. It’s very mentally challenging. I wanted to go back and kind of, it’s a mentality thing. How can you view the situation? Because having to wait for something, it’s very it’s a mental test. It really is. Especially when it comes to school, I really do think it’s a really big mental test because, I already know what classes I have to take, I know what I have left to do.  I was sad for about a month. I was very late. If maybe this is coming to happen yet and I kind of tried my best to just mentally flip the situation and just think like, okay, maybe this is not what God wants for me yet. Maybe He has another plan for me to stay here for another semester. Maybe something else is going to come along the way. I really had to take a minute; maybe there was a reason. Yes, there’s that initial feeling of disappointment; there was a little bit of sadness. It kind of rolled in a lot of insecurities, because it’s like did I not work hard enough in the beginning? Kiara: Because maybe if I did this before, I could have made that goal, but then now having to kind of flip that mentality just to see the positive outlook of it. It kind of helps a little bit to that disappointment and then kind of just starts to accept it gradually like, hey, this is what’s going to happen. This is yeah. McGill: You know, for me, something that helps me overcome that initial hurt, is having like how you said, having that like, mental shift or having, a good mindset. I’m sure all of us have gone through this frustration where we’re driving or maybe we’re on the bus or taking an Uber and then there’s traffic. And then, oh, I’m going to be late now. And, you know, that’s that I hey, be glad I’m happy and safe and I could pull up to work the next day, you know?  So, I think having a good shift in your mindset instead of thinking as something as it’s bad. Oh, no, I was working so hard for something, and I might feel a little bit impatient for this, but seeing it as a good thing, can calm down maybe that initial anger that comes to you. Brother Donald: I think it’s also an initial feeling that you plan for something and then at the very moment that you know, it’s not going to happen. At the time you anticipated it to happen. That is when you are disheartened. That’s when you feel down. And then perhaps through the passage of time, you kind of mentally make the adjustment. And perhaps just like what you said, brother McGill, when it does come, it’s kind of tainted a little bit…ok it’s here.  Okay, it’s here. Why didn’t it happen earlier? Sort of thing. But, all of again, and the Bible teaches about the importance of patience, you know, especially because we are God’s people, all the more He teaches us in many ways. So when it comes to those prayers of ours that we kind of have to be patient in God’s own time. Those prayers will be answered. And He knows when is the best time for us. Marco: So to put it simply, I think that a prolonged period of time of wait is actually a time for you to self-reflect, right? To kind of realign yourself on what your goals are, what you want and what are the things that you should do in order to achieve that goal? I think what we should take away from this factor is that, yeah, there could be an initial negative reaction when it comes to waiting for another period of time. But at the very end, that’s extra time for you to become worthy, or at least be prepared to receive such a blessing. And actually, we could ask the Bible if there’s someone or an example of someone in the Bible who had to wait for the longest time to achieve a promise of a thing for he or she prayed for. So, Brother Donald? Brother Donald: Well, the answer is yes. In fact, the Bible is replete with many examples of God’s servants who had to wait patiently for God to answer their prayers. And one such servant of God is mentioned here in Romans 4:18-19, or we should say 18 to 21: “Who, contrary to hope, in hope believed, so that he became the father of many nations, according to what was spoken, “So shall your descendants be.”   And not being weak in faith, he did not consider his own body, already dead (since he was about a hundred years old), and the deadness of Sarah’s womb. He did not waver at the promise of God through unbelief, but was strengthened in faith, giving glory to God, and being fully convinced that what He had promised He was also able to perform.” [Romans 4:18-21 New King James Version] Brother Donald: We read this declaration of the Holy Scriptures concerning Abraham. Abraham was promised children of the ripe old age of about 75, according to Bible scholars. Now at that age, of course, old people would have laughed at such a promise, but not when it came to Abraham. In fact, as the Bible teaches, he did not waver through unbelief because he was convinced that God would fulfill His promise. And sure enough, when Abraham was 100 years old, he was granted a son by the name of Isaac. This is why we should also practise patience in our lives, dear brethren, most especially patiently waiting for God to answer our prayers. God knows what is best for us, and He also knows the best time to answer our prayers. And just like what was mentioned by Brother McGill when he comes to the servants of God, sometimes situations may arise that we didn’t expect. But God had a reason why we did not go to that place, why we didn’t go to that place at that certain time. And it could be because He wanted to save us from harm or danger. It could be because God knows what we need instead of what we want. And He wants to grant unto us what we need, so that we may continue to place our hope or trust in Him, and continue on the path that leads eventually to our greatest hope, and that is none other than our salvation.  Marco: Thank you, Brother Donald. Actually, I just want to ask Kiara, McGill, even Bernadette, what are you guy’s way to build up trust and patience over God’s plan? Kiara: Aside from devotional prayers, I definitely consult and ask for advice from the ministers, and I will tell a lot. They see me in the office like all the time, just so that I could ask them for some inspirational Bible verses. I do think one of the biggest things that kind of helped me to learn to practise patience and to be more confident in God is biblical reminders. And aside from getting that from the worship service, I like to kind of go out of my way and also ask for extra biblical reminders from our minister, because sometimes there’s a specific verse that you just need to hear. And a lot of the time if you go, you could find it in the worship service. But there’s also those other ones that might not be mentioned in the worship service. I’ll go and ask our resident minister, is there something that you can read to me? Is there something that kind of refers to this in the Bible that maybe helped me in my situation? Marco: How about you, Bernadette?  Bernadette: For me, it’s definitely the worship service. When I come into the chapel with my problems, I do, examine, I meditate on them. I pray on them. But when I hear the lesson, I take the lesson as my reminder for the week that that’s what I should be focusing on and implementing as a priority in my spiritual life, rather than the problem that I brought up at that very moment. Because I know God will help me in whatever I ask for. But when it comes to the worship service lesson, that’s what He wants all of His people to focus on in that moment. And that’s how I build trust and patience. Marco: I mean, personally, setting up devotional prayers, especially if I am trying to set up a goal or a plan that I always want to achieve, whether it be through my career.  Setting up devotional prayers actually works. Maybe setting every 6 p.m. every single night. I will try to meditate and then pray and then just wait for an answer from God, especially when it comes to achieving such thing. And McGill? McGill: God is always watching what I’m doing, is always protecting me from something that happens, or there’s a mishap that happens, or there’s something that upsets me. It’s because he’s trying to build me to be the best person I could possibly be. And then of course, like how, Brother Donald has mentioned, the ultimate goal is to receive our salvation. Maybe a setback happens or something. Really, all of my trust is in God and why is there something to fret about? Why is there something to be discouraged or sad when God has your back at all times? He will definitely give us what we need in these certain situations. So knowing all of that, it’s like I have a safety net and I could freely fall. God will catch me and then just follow His will, follow His commands. Everything will lead us to the path to salvation.  Marco: Gotcha. And I mean, just to sum it up, whether it’s that patience is inherent to you, or you need constant reminders; whether it’s through devotional prayers for worship, service or even seeking for advice. That patience is something that we should use, or how to build up and actually constantly remind us of that hey, everything will be okay and everything will go according to His plans, which is for our betterment. And just to kind of like segue, one of the other things that always remind me to be patient or just in general, just to be positive are Verse of The Week [episodes] coming from INC Media. McGill: Those are very timely, by the way.  Marco: Exactly.  McGill: Very timely.  Marco: It always appears when you need it.  McGill: Yeah, exactly, I feel that.  Marco: And it always starts at the beginning of the week. Right? Right before you go to school, right before you start work like you will always have a Verse of the Week. And midway through you’ll have like Wallpaper Wednesdays, right? And by Fridays you’ll have INC Media Live; you’ll just end your week on a positive note with shows and prizes. So, moving forward, we discussed the first factor, which is almost out of our control because it’s freeing our time and other factors that can prolong our week, making us impatient. So, related to the second point that we’re going to discuss, there’s this word mentioned in the article – Closure. So, according to Annabelle Roberts, [Source:neurosciencenews.com] Marco: “The need for goal closure helps explain the counterintuitive preference for working more sooner or paying more sooner,” Roberts says. “We find that impatience isn’t just about [this] myopic desire for the reward. It’s [also] about crossing goals off their list, not having the goal hanging over them.” Marco: So this will be your second question related to the second factor: Do people tend to be impatient when they already know or envision what they want? So I just want to ask Bernadette – was there a time where you were put off by what you’re doing now, seeing how it can affect the longer you need to wait for something to happen again, especially for something different that you want.  Bernadette: I think the most patient thing. I wouldn’t even say patient. I would say persistent thing that I tried to accomplish was becoming an opera singer. I spent eight years consecutively studying music and vocal performance and, like, different choral singing that I really thought that I was going to make it, even though, along the way, different professors that I studied under told me that I wasn’t meant for it, that I couldn’t do it, I was a slow learner, and I couldn’t develop relative pitch. I couldn’t do a lot of things. But in my mind, at the time when I was that young, I was like, no, you know, if people are going to tell me, I can’t do it, I’m going to do it anyway. But I think in that persistence, God gave me patience in another way to become more malleable to His plans. Bernadette: Because in the end, God freed me in that moment because I realized that I didn’t actually love singing opera. I didn’t actually love singing classical music. I just liked being competitive. I just liked trying my best at whatever I needed to do in that moment. Whatever feels challenging, I just like to tackle it. Which is why at the same time I was studying music, I was also practicing martial arts: Muay Thai, Thai boxing, and that became my love over music. And yeah, so, so a lot of people may think, may look at me and be like, and I heard this a lot, “Bernadette Fernandez is such a loser. She can never. She can never do anything.She can’t, she can’t do music. She couldn’t figure out her media classes, X, Y, Z.” Well, that didn’t matter to me. Once, once I failed, or once God showed me that. Like, once God showed me who I really was. And it just opened the doors for me. Yeah. Brother Donald: Sister Bernadette, if I can jump in. Yeah. We did. We are all proud of you. Okay? In spite of the naysayers, you went for it. You know that. You. You placed your hope and trust in God, correct?  Bernadette: Yes I did.  Brother Donald Pinnock: It’s like, okay, I don’t care if they rule or say no. What was most important is that God gave you the confidence and the courage to try. Brother Donald: Kudos! We’re all giving you a round of applause. Truly.  Bernadette: Thanks y’all.  Brother Donald: Great job.  Marco: So it seems like right now, it is not only a test of patience, but also it’s a test of faith. So we should probably ask the Bible what should be our mindset when it comes to the season of waiting? And how should one practice being patient? Brother Donald: Good question. Really good question. And of course the Bible is going to let us know from its stand, from a biblical stand. There is something that we should continue to do that will help us to patiently wait. And especially because, being God’s servants, all of us, we are prayerful. Yes or no?  Hosts: Yes, yes, yes, yes. Brother Donald: We find the time during every day to pray to God; sometimes multiple times. You know there are those who are praying in the morning, before they leave their abode. When it comes to facing situations during the day and at the end of the day, you know, we pray once again to God. But while waiting patiently for God to hear and answer those prayers, there is something that we should do and in fact that will help us immensely. And we can read that in Revelation 14:12 to 13: This means that God’s holy people must be patient. They must obey God’s commands and keep their faith in Jesus. Then I heard a voice from heaven. It said, “Write this: From now on there are great blessings for those who belong to the Lord when they die.” The Spirit says, “Yes, that is true. They will rest from their hard work. What they have done will stay with them.” [Revelation 14:12 to 13 Easy-to-Read Version] Brother Donald: We know that when it comes to the epoch or the epitome of God’s promises to His people, it’s none other than salvation and eternal life. And while awaiting the fulfilment of that last great promise, we are expected to patiently obey His commands and to also keep our faith in Him and the Lord Jesus Christ. Until when? Well, until we die, or until the return of our Lord Jesus Christ on Judgment Day.  Well, this is also what Church Of Christ members are counseled to do, even when it comes to once hope in life, when it comes to again one’s career aspiration, when it comes to their educational aspirations or goals, when it comes to finding that significant other, the list goes on and on. And while waiting for those prayers to be answered. We should patiently work towards them. And how can we do that? We continue to obey the commandments of God. We are devoted to worshipping him. We try to help to invite people to listen to His words. Many times we are officers. We have duties inside the Church. When we do all of that, coupled with our strong faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, well, all the more our prayers eventually will be answered. So may it be that when it comes to members of the Church who are listening to this podcast, we will also continue to perform our spiritual duties and obligation when it comes to, again, helping our fellow men through INC Giving, through inviting them to Church activities. Because when it comes to this formula, it has been proven successful time and time again in the lives of Church Of Christ members all throughout the world. Isn’t that right, brethren?  Kiara: Yes.  Marco: That is true. Bernadette: Yes. McGill: I agree. Marco: Actually, if I were to share, like a similar experience, or at least something related to that formula that has been successful, proven time and time and again. It’s actually just waiting for the right opportunity when it comes to finding a job. Like on my end, there was a time during the pandemic that I was stuck between deciding whether I would take the exam to get a licensure examination, or getting a job just so that I could help my family, basically. But after consistent devotional prayer and asking for whatever it is that would be helpful for my situation, it has been…at least the answer that I got was to get a job. And, a part of me might become disappointed that, oh wait, why am I not given a sign to take the licensure examination? Maybe that would have been better. But when I think about it, and now that I’m always thinking about it, maybe I was not part of- Or at least maybe that’s not meant for me. What’s meant for me is to have this other career that I could nurture to something else. And as I see it, it’s helping my family. It’s making me achieve the things that I’ve always wanted as a kid. And right now, I can also do my duties at Church, that you know, from fulfilling my duties in finance, doing my duties here INC Media and recently and this is something that we’re continuously doing, which is the INC Giving project and that has been a worldwide project that even I am so proud to be a part of. So, I hope everyone is also doing their part for the INC Giving project.  So continuing with our topic, and as mentioned earlier, one of the examples which is the recent pandemic did and did have an effect on people’s patience. If you were to, read the same article. [Source:neurosciencenews.com] Marco: “When you expect the wait to be ending soon, you become more impatient closer to that expectation.” Marco: But as we’re continuing with this discussion, it seems like waiting actually works in our favour. And we should think of it that way, because that realigns ourselves and, reconnecting with our roots, realigning ourselves with the goals and the plans that we have, and most importantly, reconnecting ourselves with our Lord God; because more importantly He knows what’s better for us, and what His plans are, most importantly what’s better for us. So this time of waiting, surely there is something that is a real blessing; and that is something that we should be aiming for. Bernadette: For me, it’s really all about prayer, I think and now people might not agree with me. I think that I am fortunate enough that God really leads the way when I see people who have two different job opportunities in front of them, when they’re applying, like two offers, I think that’s that’s a much harder decision because, now you have to ask God, which one is the best one for you in that moment. But I feel blessed to have so many different rejections at a time, and then receiving an offer to escape my current situation. And as long as what I offer is better for my faith, I can move on to that career. But that is my experience. But if you’re in a situation right now, in a career or even a major that you absolutely adore, definitely bring that to God. And God will show you your way out to a better and happier life. You just got to trust him. Marco: Actually, when I do ask, like the elders in the Church, what they could probably recommend or advice when you’re getting a job; it’s when you can freely do all the things to serve God, still, while having that job. I think when you can still attend worship service, continue to fulfil your duties. I think that will be or that then, is a perfect opportunity for you. Because not only you can serve God, but also sustain whatever you need in this life and actually if you— McGill: Woah, that’s actually good advice. Marco: Yeah. And actually, there’s one—another personal one is that when you can give more for the Church, whether it’s through doing Church duties, accepting another office duty, I think that is more of a sign for you to get that opportunity. Because if you have more time to do more for the Church, well, again, sustain whatever it is that you need for your life. I think that will be the perfect opportunity. And actually, this question is actually really close to me because one of the things that I struggled with was to look at the blessings that I have currently, because I just wanted to do more. And there’s nothing wrong with doing more, right? But I think what was instilled in me was the process of grinding just to achieve better things in life, especially now, where people have that grind culture, where you sacrifice so many things right now just for you to, quote unquote, live a better life in the future. But that led to me having anxiety. So my anxiety wasn’t particularly being worried about something or worried about the future. It’s more of my dissatisfaction, or at least my mistake in not looking at what I have on what I have now and basically ruining what is I could be because I’m pushing myself way past my limit.  So it’s recognizing that you’re already come so far in life. You’re already achieved a lot of things. But it’s also knowing that there’s still a lot of things out there that you can do. But being positive that, hey, no matter how or what I achieve in life, there’s already these things that I’ve already achieved that should make me all these happy on what I am right now and what I could be knowing that I’ve already come so far in life. So that’s probably one of the few things that I would want to share in this episode, or at least on this topic. But how do we then react in situations where God wants you to be patient and why is God’s timing the most important timing we should trust? Brother Donald? Brother Donald: When it comes to life, it happens. Life happens. And when it does, sometimes you may suddenly find ourselves in a very difficult situation. But in God’s people, instead of panicking or losing hope, our response should be just like how, the servant of God react is is written here in Micah 7:7-8: But as for me, I will look expectantly for the Lord and with confidence in Him I will keep watch; I will wait [with confident expectation] for the God of my salvation. My God will hear me. Do not rejoice over me [amid my tragedies], O my enemy! Though I fall, I will rise; Though I sit in the darkness [of distress], the Lord is a light for me.  [Micah 7:7-8 Amplified] Brother Donald: We can glean from this declaration, this proclamation of the prophet Micah, that faith and trust in God is of imperative importance. And those endearing qualities can only be proven when faced with adverse situations. I want to repeat that, those endearing qualities can only be proven when faced with adverse situations, because it’s easy for an individual to say, “oh, I have faith, I trust in God.” But when you are in the midst of that very, very difficult circumstance, that is when we can really prove that our faith and our trust in God is solid. Whether they be the trials that we go through, the hardships or different kinds of troubles, even though one may say that it is human nature to not only feel down, but also impatient, to escape one’s predicament, God’s people will not resort to evil in an attempt to do so. We’re not going to be desperate. We’re not going to look for a means out of our predicament that we know is displeasing before the sight of God, but instead we will continue to do good. In Romans 7:12, that good is none other than God’s teachings or commandments, and we will patiently wait for God to answer our prayers, most especially our devotional prayers, and for us to be delivered from our plight. And you mentioned earlier, when it comes to God’s timing to come to our aid or assistance, it couldn’t be more perfect. As we can glean from I Peter 5:6:  Humble yourselves, therefore, under God’s mighty hand, that he may lift you up in due time. [1 Peter 5:6 New International Version] Brother Donald: And the reason why we should patiently wait for God to answer our prayers, since He will lift us up either to deliver us from our troubles or to bless us with advancement in life, in due time, because God knows the perfect time to come to the aid, the rescue, to respond to the cries of His people. So, yes, all of you in our discussion, you’ve mentioned those difficult times in life, but we have to profess that it really was God who came to our aid and our rescue. And even though we felt as if we couldn’t go on any longer because of our faith and trust in him, God eventually came to our assistance. And in the future, no matter what we encounter, we are going to do the same. We are going to continue to place our hope, our trust in God. We’re going to continue to be prayerful. We’re going to continue to be devoted when it comes to serving and worshipping him.  Marco: Thank you for the wonderful advice, Brother Donald. This is the second episode of Heart And Soul. We also have the first episode, for this first season; topic about “Self Care”. Go check that out. Thank you for listening to this serious episode of Heart And Soul. Thank you Kiara, McGill, and Bernadette for joining us today. And again, thanks everyone for joining us! Now if you want more content, there is so much more to explore, watch, and listen on INCMedia.org or on the INC Media App, which you can find in app stores. You can also follow us on our Instagram account  @heartandsoulconversations for future updates and inspiration or if you want to DM us and let us know how this helped you – we’d love to hear from you! Thank you for listening to the Heart And Soul Podcast brought to you by INC Media audio, where we have honest conversations that nurture our souls. And whatever you’re going through today, remember that you’re not alone and we hope that today’s conversation brought you peace and brought you closer to God. See you next time! Hosts: Bye everyone!

Katrina Nicole Espiritu: Spiritual care is the best self care that they can make in their every day lives. Hannah P. Limon: You know, not being stuck so much with what I feel I can try to do, but more so on what God can do for me. Nikki Custodio: You know, I think God takes great care of us in a way that we are still able to manage our day to day lives. Keziah Gutierrez: I think put God first and everything will follow.   [Show intro]  Hannah: Welcome to the Heart and Soul podcast, where we have honest conversations that nurture our souls. And this is the start of our brand new season. So excited to have Heart and Soul back. And today we’re talking about something a lot of us think about doing, but maybe can’t find time to do that. We’re talking about self-care, how it can help us, calm us, soothe us. But is there such a thing as too much self-care? And how can spiritual care be self-care? So let’s talk about it. I’m Hannah, your host for today’s episode, let’s have a Heart and Soul conversation. [Music]  Hannah: I’m so excited to kick off this new season. I’m not going to lie, it’s crazy because for most of us, we’ve been listeners of Heart and Soul, and here we are. It’s quite a journey, and with me are also my fellow co-hosts Kat from the Philippines, Kez from Australia and Nikki here in the States, actually in California. Hi, ladies. Nikki: Hello, hi! Kez: Hello, good morning! Kat: Hello.  Hannah: So self-care, what do you all do for your form of self-care in your everyday lives? Just to let you all think about it real quick. Here’s a source according to Psychology Today: [Source: psychologytoday.com] “Self care in essence is the mindful taking of time to pay attention to you, not in a narcissistic way, but in a way that ensures that you are being cared for by you.”  Hannah: So now we got a fair sense of what self-care is defined as by various sources around the world. So for us four here, how strongly would you all say that self-care has been integrated into our feeds? So let me start off with Kez from Australia, hi! Kez: Okay, so for me, my self-care is actually quite different I think from everybody, my self-care is silence. That’s because of my line of work. I’m a teacher, and Hannah I know you’re a teacher too.  Hannah: Oh yes. In elementary, though. You’re in high school, right? Kez: Yes, I’m a high school teacher. But it’s still the same. It’s a lot of noise. You do get over-stimulated noise. So my form of self-care is just to sit down somewhere and just be quiet. Hannah:  Relax. Be in the presence.  Kez: Yeah, but, you know, doing that as well kind of helps me kind of just, like, calm down everything. Because I’ve got a lot of things to think about at work. And just gives me time to just kind of just take a break. So just take a brain break, as we say in the classroom. And so sometimes I just let my mind wander on just things: What am I going to cook for dinner tonight? Or what show should I watch at the end of the day? Hannah: Yes, I know it. And same here. It’s also, it’s my dream job to just be in the classroom and teach. For younger students, they’re still understanding the world, and there’s just so much that they need to develop in their, you know, in their minds. But I get what you mean. There’s so many decisions we make in our jobs and for people in our age, there’s also many decisions we make as well, even in our studies. So of course, there’s just times when we just need to relax, take a breather. So, of course, I know there’s others who do, more active ways to take care of themselves through self-care. So let me ask Kat, hello from the Philippines. So what is it that you do to take care of your needs just for yourself?  Kat: Oh Hannah, here in the Philippines the usual thing in the work is five days work in a week, eight hours each day. So it’s really stressful. But self-care, my form of self-care: taking time for myself, I probably strive to jog every week and catch up with my friends, and of course, I love journaling. That’s how I take time for myself.  Hannah: Yeah, like self-reflection. You know, some common ways others have, practice self-care is, you know, journaling. Just reflecting on how the day goes. I’d say even what you said, Kat reflecting with friends. You know, sometimes we, you know, we vent or we talk to our friends just to give updates in our lives, you know, like, how often do you see your friends when it’s after work? You know, you’re still tired, but you just want to see your friends, Kat.  Kat: Actually, my friends are always asking “When will you be available? You’re always busy Kat.” You’re going to relate to me, like, I was at work on weekdays and Church duties at weekends. So probably the other time around is for home chores, so I don’t have any time to catch up with friends. So when [I’m] catching up with friends they will message me that “Kat, are [you] available at this time. Oh no. How about this time?” So we’ll be conversing about our availability. So we’re going to talk about anything about us. About everything, especially about Church, about our Church duties. Because most of my friends are Church members. Hannah: Yes, I agree. And it’s just I feel we can all relate. Adulting, right? But it’s so hard! We literally have to take the time to schedule with our friends because of our clashing schedules. But, you know, that’s part of self-care, right? You’re setting aside the time. You’re dedicating all that effort to be with your friends, not only for them, but even for yourself. You know, it’s just, how do you say it’s just a breath of fresh air when you get to just, not be with yourself so much, even though that’s not bad, but even be with good company. So, yes, I, I get what you mean. Kat. Especially from, you know, different sides of the world. It’s all the same challenges that we face as young adults. Now how about you, Nikki? So, whether your work hours have changed or it’s still the same with trying to find the time. How have you managed with self-care, whether for yourself or even just reaching out to others and the like?  Nikki: Oh man, this is such a great topic. I think self-care is extremely important. I kind of draw from, from everyone here. So, I know Kez said silence, right? So for me, I like reflecting, I like reflecting, sometimes deep in my thoughts and I like to tie it back to the blessings God has given me. So, I want to constantly be in a state of gratitude. So there’s that. And I know Kat mentioned journaling, which is funny because I actually love to journal. I love writing down my thoughts after I think about it. So yes, I love journaling. also reflecting back and reading on those journal entries, and it also shows me how much I’ve grown throughout the past couple of months or even years. I’ve been journaling for a couple of years now. But personally, for me, I’ve been doing this new thing for self-care. I’ve been going on more walks. So yes. Yeah. So before I used to go to the gym, here and there, but there’s just something I prefer about going on outdoor walks. The sun is just beaming on my face, and I go to this park, I put on a podcast, you know, and I listen to music, and I just walk. And next thing you know, I’m just walking for three, four miles just— Hannah: Oh wow, got carried away. Nikki: I just got carried away. Yes. So, you know, integrating everyone’s answers, yes, self-care. That’s how I’ve been practicing it recently. Hannah: I relate to that. I feel I need to be more accountable with, just physical activity overall. I feel I make excuses like, well, I walk around a lot at work when I pick up my groups of students, but, even then I would relate to, like, walking, just being outside, even at my school site. It’s such a nice place, especially now that it’s getting warmer, the sun’s out. But I get what you mean. Just dedicating that time to be out and about, being active. But now back to the main question. I did ask, and I feel that we’ve touched upon it here and there in our responses. So we’re focusing on the correlation between self-care and spiritual care for most of us here. We’ve mentioned, you know, most of our friends, we see them at church, whether in our multiple responsibilities. We talk about our spiritual beliefs with our friends. And even, something that I can share, when I meditate or pray, whether my devotional prayer or even in the service, there’s times when, of course, I’m always in a state of gratitude. But there’s times when I also reflect too, with, you know, whether I need to find guidance in something or just think out my thoughts, you know, while in a dedicated place of worship. And, you know, we hear the hymns playing and it’s just that moment of peace where I can deeply reflect. So actually, just holding on to that thought, let’s open up our Hearts and Souls by asking what the Bible says with our guest here, Brother Donald, a Minister of the Gospel. So hello, Brother Donald, how are you?  Brother Donald Pinnock: Hi, sisters. How’re you doing? I’m really enjoying your conversation so far. I want to point to Sister Nikki, who mentioned about when it comes to, you know, her exercise regimen because when it comes to self-care and spiritual care, there is a connection. There’s a correlation. I think you asked that a little earlier. And to prove this, let’s read I Timothy 4:8. This is a declaration of the Apostle Paul when he says this:  Physical exercise has some value, but spiritual exercise is valuable in every way, because it promises life both for the present and for the future. [I Timothy 4:8 Today’s English Version] Brother Donald: So the Bible clearly teaches about physical exercise and spiritual exercise. Both forms of exercise are very, very important. But of course, when it comes to spiritual exercise, which is also spiritual care in many ways, that has a benefit not only for this life but the life to come. However, we should not dismiss taking care of ourselves. We need to look after our physical health through exercise, like Sister Nikki. When it comes to many others of you, I’m pretty sure you do have some kind of exercise regimen. When it comes to those who perhaps they have challenges when it comes to their health and especially the elderly. Well, they should get advice from a medical practitioner before embarking on an exercise regimen all of a sudden. However, we should also couple that physical exercise with proper nutrition, and we can never, ever dismiss the importance of having sufficient rest or sleep. Because yes, it’s very busy nowadays when it comes to a person’s life. But those are very important ingredients when it comes to looking after our health. It’s also been proven that an exercise regimen is beneficial, even for one’s mental and emotional state of being. So yes, by all means, we should be active and we should remain active in order to take care of ourselves. However, before I pass the microphone back to you, I believe it’s important to distinguish what others understand and even practice, as spirituality from what is spiritual in the biblical sense. Spirituality, nowadays, it comes as part and parcel of what is called manifestation, the belief that the universe owes a person success, that all the person has to do is to envision receiving something specific, and it will be manifested in their life. However, biblical spirituality is firmly based on one’s faith in God, who is spirit in state of being. According to the statement of our Lord Jesus Christ, it is written in John 4:24. Thus we ask God through prayer to bless us with what we need in life. We also participate, especially as members of the  Church Of Christ, in activities that are not only spiritually rewarding for us personally, but also we believe will please the Lord our God. I really think it’s important that at this point of our discussion, we establish this distinction between what the world calls this spirituality and spirituality in the biblical sense.  Hannah: Thank you, Brother Donald, for that clarification and just budding inspiration from the Bible, because of course, that is where we based all the teachings in accordance with the Bible. And of course, again, just to reiterate biblical spirituality as what Brother Donald has said and feel free, Brother Donald, to also chime in in our conversation. So of course, in light with the Bible verse, we just heard, back to my fellow co-hosts. How do we find the Bible verse inspiring when it comes to spiritual care and self-care?  Kez: I think that’s also kind of, related to in a way, me caring as well for my spiritual side because, when I’m quiet or when everything’s quiet around me, I get to think clearly. But then it also gets into a kind of self-reflection in a way. So I started to reflect, you know, like yes today was kind of really busy and really hectic. But, in a way that turns into like, oh, you know what? Like, I’m really blessed to have this job because this is my dream job, and I’m so grateful. And I just start remembering God and like, you know what? Like he gave me this blessing. And that’s all God. And so self-care is just making sure I feel okay. But then it’s also, you know, remembering who made me okay. And that’s our Lord God. Hannah: For myself, I have multiple responsibilities. I believe each of you as well. and in a way, it does keep me busy. In a good way. Busy in a sense that I’m able to help out others in many different ways from young children from ages 4 to 12 to my other fellow peers around my same age or same goals. Being a part of the worship service and singing and helping out and beyond in the district. So through whatever means of help that I can provide, it all feels, you know, pleasing. Because I know that not only is it pleasing God, but I know in return I get, you know, the benefits I need or the blessings. So of course, that’s how I take it with when it comes to exercise, in that way, whether it’s mental health, self-care of course, this is how we exercise through those means, whether in our responsibilities or how we help out, around a community, you know, such as volunteering, which we’ll talk about later. Let me jump back to Kat. Just delving or discussing more about what we do in our responsibilities in Church. How do you connect that with the Bible verse Brother Donald has read to us? How do you find that inspiring when it comes to spiritual care as self-care?  Kat: Everyone, we know that self-care doesn’t end as taking care of ourselves. According to Psychology Today or Medical News Today: There are four branches of self-care, like physical care, emotional care, and social care, and spiritual care. But then when [Brother] Donald just—give us the verse. Physical exercise is good, but spiritual exercise is better. And I was inspired by that because we can care for ourselves physically, emotionally, yes, socially. But the most important is spiritually. Because for me, as my own experience spiritual exercise is like exercising all of those already. For example, in our Church activities like INC Giving. Would you agree that it doesn’t end with spiritual exercise like, giving to the needy, the things that we offer? And because it’s not only spiritually, it’s not being as Iglesia Ni Cristo sharing our faith, it’s the moment also that we move. So we accomplished a physical part of self-care. Like we move, we do things for INC Giving so we can accomplish physical and social care. So we accomplish physical care. A social life, social self-care. We were appreciated by those we help. So we accomplished the emotional care. But then the most important is we represented ourselves as an Iglesia Ni Cristo, we share our faith, we share ourselves that members of the Iglesia Ni Cristo obey the commandments of God to help [the] needy. So I was inspired by that, because spiritual care for me is something a lot more over those branches of self-care.  Hannah: Thank you, Kat for sharing. And I like how you broke it down with the different branches of self-care, which was…can you help me out here? Physical, what was another one, Kat? Kat: Emotional.  Hannah: Mental, emotional, Yeah. Emotional, mental, spiritual. Was there a fourth one?  Kat: Yes. Physical, emotional, social, and spiritual.  Hannah: Social. There you go, that’s social right? With how we’re connected with one another. And a light bulb just came up in my head just thinking, hey, we have all those benefits in the Church Of Christ. So starting off with, physical, health, right? We have our unity games in various forms. Well, I participated in Unity Games chess. So, that’s just mental exercise there. And I won, but it’s just, you know, some activities like that, we socialize with one another. What else, Kez? What—for Unity Games? Have you ever done any Unity Games?  Kez: Oh, I…I’m always there for Unity Games. Hannah: You’re always there. But…  Kez: I’m always there but—volleyball and basketball aren’t really my specialty. However, I do get involved in different ways. So, if you’re in my side of the world in Australia, something that we like to do in the beginning before Unity Game starts. So Unity Games is pretty much a basketball or volleyball and other sport tournaments. For the big ones at least where we have, where we get different states to come and kind of compete, we have something called an opening ceremony. Hannah: Wait a minute! I remember, you’re a dancer. Kez: Yes! I am! I’m a dancer. That’s my sport. Sport is not my thing, but dancing is my one. That’s how I get involved in it. So I do get my physical exercise, and I think I just want to go back to what Kat was saying earlier where she talked about the four branches of self-care. And I think for me, you know, like being part, and what Brother Donald said as well about, making sure that we participate in activities to please, God, I think, you know, putting our spiritual, care first and foremost actually ticks all the boxes because, yes, I do get my physical care, but a lot of the reason why people do self-care is because of how much hustle bustle their whole life is.  Hannah: Everything’s just moving.  Kez: Yeah, I mean, for me personally as well, and so, you know, the way I get away from that environment of, like, stress and challenges is doing something completely different, completely away from that. And that is actually the things that I do for Church, and as well as that, like, I also get to make friends. Like, a lot of my closest friends I met in the Church. And so, that’s ticking my social box, ticking my physical box and my emotional box. Like, I am not thinking about what I’m going to do tomorrow. What’s the workload I have to come back to? Hannah: You’re just there— Kez: I’m just there! Like, I’m dancing, cheering, yes. If there was a competition for the loudest cheerer in Unity Games, I would win it. Every single time.   Hannah: That takes energy. I’m sweating bullets when I’m cheering and screaming! Kez: Yeah! And my watch goes you’re not moving. But your heart rate’s gone up. Oh, yeah, I know. So, I’m just overall happy, you know. And that is my form of self-care. And, all I did was go to a Church activity, that’s all. And, you know, and that and that’s like just a whole, evidence of, like, God will take care of us no matter what we do.  Nikki: Honestly, it’s nice because you’re in the Church Of Christ. We have such a, you know, welcoming community of brethren. Right. And I know everyone touched upon the different forms of care, but I think there is an overarching theme, and something we can all agree upon is how spiritual care is the most important, and how we can all tie it back to our faith. And, like what Brother Donald mentioned earlier in the Bible verse, you know, we draw inspiration from these Bible verses. and I also wanted to touch upon the fact that I know a lot of us here, despite our busy schedules or whatnot, we we still try our best to be physically fit, physically active. And I remember an advice that a good friend of mine told me and she said that, you know, we should take care of ourselves because God takes care of us. And from then I was like, you know what? Let me go on a four mile walk. Let me, you know, let me get my steps in, because, at the end of the day, you know, all these forms of care, whether it’s physical, emotional, social, it really all ties back to spiritual self or spiritual care, which is like what everyone mentioned is the most important. (It’s) the one that is our number one priority—our spiritual care.  Hannah: Agreed. It’s like, you know, you want to make sure you’re in check with yourself so that you can give what you can. And of course, with all of us here, we can agree that, you know, if that’s not a check, you know, on our spiritual beings, then how are we able to give back to, those that we serve along with, but to the one that we serve, which is God. And of course, he’s done so much for us, and all the more it’s all the more pleasing to give back.  So just to keep diving into what it means to be spiritually healthy, this is a blog that I have stumbled upon, for those, when it comes to those who want to practice spiritual self-care, I noticed again some tips that we even set ourselves, which is finding your purpose in life. For us, we feel that fulfilment when we serve in our duties, helping others through volunteering, practicing mindfulness, such as meditating in the worship services or our devotional prayers. In our case, how our faith connects back to God. And we feel that fulfillment by helping others and giving back. And we haven’t clearly defined what INC Giving is. It has relaunched just recently this year. The INC Giving Project is a project of the Iglesia Ni Cristo (Church Of Christ) that encourages volunteers to go into their communities and share their faith through acts of kindness, through many different forms and ways. I won’t list them all because I want us to talk about our experiences thus far. So how has volunteering been a form of spiritual care?  So let me ask Kez. I know you recently posted a vlog about something you’ve done for the first time. If you can help us relive what was that like for you? I mean, it must have been nerve wracking. I’ve been there before.  Kez: Yeah, so I did a vlog recently on my second time donating blood. Last year was my first time, and I didn’t get to do it before because of health problems. But now my doctor has cleared me. And yep, you can donate blood now. So, like, I’m so excited. so I actually just, vlogged my entire day of what happens, the process of going in when you’re donating blood, the health checks and things like that. Well here in Australia, a lot of the blood that gets donated goes to cancer patients. That’s one of the main goals of where the blood donations go. And for me, that was actually quite rewarding because again, it goes back to, doing something good, doing something good for the community, knowing that, for me, it’s yeah, it’s my blood. It doesn’t, affect me as much, but I know that that piece of, blood that I’ve donated will help someone a long, long way. And that, again, goes back to just doing things like that just to help us, have some sort of fulfilment or purpose in our life, giving back to those who need it. Hannah: Yes, in a way, you’re literally giving, from yourself, your bodies. So for Nikki here, again, just highlighting some other INC Giving events that you’ve done or is in the works at the moment. How have you felt that fulfilment and happiness when you’re helping someone in need and overall connecting that to our spiritual care through those endeavours?  Nikki: First off, I just want to say big props to Kez; donating blood is so courageous. I wish I can donate, but I’m anaemic. But anyways, our district and our local recently, we’ve been holding a lot of INC Giving activities. And fortunately enough, I’ve been able to participate. We had one over the course of a day. We had a book drive slash canned food drive. So, what we did was we asked the brethren to donate books that they no longer read and donate canned goods, and from there we went to the library, and we also went to the food bank to donate everything that we received. And actually, I am part of a really big local congregation and we got a ton of donations, thankfully enough. And, kind of like what Kez mentioned, know whenever we possibly can, especially in the Church Of Christ, we aim to do good to those who need it. And I think it’s really fulfilling, whenever we participate in these acts of kindness, because not only are we giving back to our community, we’re also showing God that we can help out others in need. We can extend ourselves further and I think this really relates to our spiritual self-care because; oftentimes, right, when we hear the word we hear the word “self-care”, we, we think of ourselves. But I think self-care is an extension of helping others besides yourself.  Kat: And INC Giving actually inspired me before, to launch an activity in our KADIWA organization; by having a clothing donation drive, for all those observance and to the church, for those who are probation in the church. And in relating to our discussion today, including donation. It gives me the sense that we’re caring for others spiritually because we want them to have theirs; first not only spiritually, but for them to have their own clothes to wear for the worship services. So we launched a clothing donation for them to provide the needs, to attend the worship service. So we’re not only helping, just to give them clothes that they need as those are of primary needs, but to help them have those things that they need when it comes to attending the worship services. The donation drive provides self-care, spiritual care because we care for them as they need it for our service as well. We shared with them the importance of wearing those clothes for our worship services.  Hannah: And I just want to pinpoint here for our listeners, just mind you, we’re from different parts of the world, I’m here in Southern California, Nikki’s in Northern California, Kez in Australia, and Kat from the Philippines. So the fact that we’re talking about the same movement, INC Giving, it’s just phenomenal. And being KADIWA members; or those who are 18yrs and above, and are single and unmarried; of course, it feels good to help others in need. And like you mentioned Kat, that extends beyond providing an array for the worship services because of course it’s considered a holy occasion. And what more, not only to provide material needs such as clothes, but clothing for the worship service. Of course, you want to look your Sunday best, right? So that’s so nice. Just hearing that perspective from the Philippines. I’m so glad you finally get a chance to get involved along with our other brethren and peers around the world. It’s literally global. We have, I think I’ve seen just a promotion on the INC Giving social media site. Right Kez, Nikki, Kat? Where the shirts were literally in different languages. In Tagalog, I think there is German at one point and you know. It’s literally international. So it’s great that all members in the church as young as four years old, our parents, other families and elders; they get to give back and in a way that connects us to how we feel happy and fulfilled in our self-care by offering back to those in need.  Brother Donald:  If I can jump in Sister Hannah? What you said was very, very, very  poignant because all of us here, we’ve involved ourselves when it comes to INC Giving. Is it not? And what do you feel? Do you not feel a sense of gratification? Does it make you feel good when you’re able to help other people in need? We’re not looking for vainglory when it comes to what we do. We’re just following or complying with what the Bible teaches. And you mentioned it earlier. It’s written in Proverbs 3:27:  “Whenever you possibly can, do good to those who need it.” [Proverbs 3:27 Today’s English Version] Especially those in need. So that’s why the Church Administration is motivating all the members of the church to help or to participate, because not only are we pleasing God, we’re obeying his commandments, but also we get that feeling of gratification that is beneficial when it comes to our personal health. There’s the spiritual exercise, with its connection or correlation with physical exercise. There is a link there. So that’s why, again, when it comes to all members of the church throughout the world, just like what you are doing, beloved brethren, you know, let’s participate. It’s good for us. It makes us feel good. And we are helping other people; also, we are giving glory and pleasure to the Lord God. I just wanted to point that out.  Hannah: Yes. Thank you, Brother Donald. And it’s not just limited to what we’ve mentioned with Kez, donating blood at the blood donation drive. Nikki, helping out at a book drive or Kat helping at a clothing drive. There’s so many other avenues that INC Giving can branch off to-  teacher appreciation drives, firefighters or a service worker drives community cleanup drives at the park. Hannah: But by the way, just to add more, we did touch upon this earlier. And how else there are other correlations between practising spirituality or being connected in our faith and good health. So according to this website, the Mental Health America website, here are some findings. So first,  “finding people who meditate or pray have increased activity in a feel good area of the brain.”  Another point,  “People with strong religious beliefs recovered faster from heart surgery than people with weaker faith.”  Hannah: So just going back to the first point, people who meditate feel good in their brains. So what do you all think about that direct correlation between our physical health and how we practise our beliefs and practices in the Church Of Christ? And of course, taking care of our health is also a form of self-care, but more so touching on the point of how we feel when we know we’re not relying on ourselves, but on God.  Nikki: That’s a really great question, actually, for me, I think prayer is a really great form of spiritual care. And, obviously we just have one life, we have one body. So the more we take care of ourselves physically, because it allows God to give us more long life, more strength, in our services unto him. But, I think God takes great care of us in a way that we’re still able to manage our day to day lives; whether that’s physical activity, whether it’s self-care. Ultimately, He takes care of us, in a spiritual sense. And I think that’s something that throughout this podcast, something that I’m learning as well, is, all of us have that strong sense of faith. Hannah: Yes, I agree, and, I want to touch upon, you know, when I pray too, or meditate during really stressful moments, I would pray, I just take the moment to just check back in, be present and, ask for a solution and most times, not verbatim, I would just pray, I tried everything, it’s not working and I give it all to You – to guide me to the solution that will help me out of this. And that’s what propels me throughout the day. That’s what helps me move forward with, you know, not being stuck so much with what I feel I can try to do, but more so on what God can do for me. And he knows what’s best. Kez: I’m going to go back to what I said earlier where I said, like my main source of self-care is silence. For me, that means, like, just a quiet room, where I’m on my phone or just, you know, reading. But I do agree with Nikki and yourself, Hannah, about how prayer and meditation just helps. And when I do get emotionally overwhelmed, and I do get emotionally overwhelmed a lot, meditation, during worship service, where I just sit and I just pray and it’s a different form of silence. It’s not like I don’t hear any noise. It’s like I don’t hear any of my thoughts. I don’t hear, like this, this, is my anxieties. And I don’t hear it. What I hear is like myself praying to our Lord God in a way, you know, I’m still I’ve just started my prayer and God’s already kind of like given me, metaphorically, noise canceling headphones. Like, that’s how I feel. And it just feels so, so good every single time. Because, you know, I’m sure all of you can relate in different ways how for a lot of us, the youth, a lot of the issues that go around worldwide for a younger generation is emotional and mental health. And we can read all day long about articles about how, you know, statistics and what to do. And we can go on social media and look at self-care, what you should do. But at the end of the day, you know, how do you fix your emotional overload? How do you fix your mental kind of mental block, I guess. And so for us members of the Church, we have that solution. It’s so easy. You just go to the worship service and then you pray and then you get your very own kind of like quiet and peace. And that’s what I really love the most about being a member of the church and that’s I guess, you know, that’s the correlation between, like, my own emotional and mental health and my religious beliefs. It’s that I know that I may be stuck now, but God will always be around, and he will give me that sort of peace.  Brother Donald: Yeah, that’s a good point, sister Kez. If I can jump in. Sister Hannah, I’m sorry, but, Yes, that is a very, very good point. Just recently in Canada, it was mentioned that when it comes to the government, they are going to allot 500 million CAD when it comes to tackling mental health for the youth, not for the adults, for the youth. And the reason is because it is a growing problem. We know in truth, it’s not just Canada, it’s worldwide. What do you say, people? It’s not just the, you know, the older generations per se, but even the youth, they are struggling when it comes to mental health. So we have a great advantage as members of the Church Of Christ because like you said, when it comes to, prayer, which in ways, you know, we’re communicating with our Lord God, we can ponder and consider our way of life in our situation, which is a kind of a form of meditation. And I wanted to clarify that, too, because some people may consider meditation. You’re going to sit in the lotus position and you’re going to hum a certain note. But that’s not the meditation when it comes to those members of the Church Of Christ, you know, more or less it’s just consulting with God. It is trying to find that quiet time and space that invariably many members of the church do.They enter the place of worship. And it’s like slowly but surely, all the pressures of the day kind of melts away. If it’s an early morning worship service, you know, they find that peace so that after the worship service they are ready to go out. You know, they’ve gotten that spiritual bravery and courage and say, you know what, I can face this day because God is with me. So, yes, definitely. Again, we can see that correlation. And we can also see the importance of spiritual exercise. And that’s how we practice spiritual exercise through participating in all of these activities that is promulgated by the Church Administration when we participate, including when it comes to the worship service, we are practicing spiritual exercise, which, again, is connected when it comes to our physical well-being, when it comes to taking care of ourselves. Hannah: Brother Donald, I agree with what you’ve mentioned, with today’s time and age, the problems with mental health, it’s so vast that it’s even affecting the youth of this world. And that just strikes something, you know, in my heart, because I recall when I was in my first job, I worked in a middle school, so those were students from ages 12 to, well, backtrack 11- 14, which is a crucial time in a child’s growth. You know, that’s a time where just in general, they’re understanding themselves more. They’re able to think more complex, even more complex with mental health. But yet there’s still so much more that, you know, they’re exploring. And if I can just, give a reminder, there was a time when we were all locked down in our homes in a pandemic, and those children in that age, I feel for them because, you know, they’re isolated. They might not have anyone to talk to, they can’t see their friends physically or they’re resorting to solutions online. And it just goes on, there’s millions of solutions. And yet, here we are. We’re talking about what has been working for us because it is, you know, biblically, biblically based. And, of course, with the youth in our Church, it’s so important that we help guide them and help them understand that, you know, yes, it’s hard to go through these challenges. There are times when we’ll feel sad. We may feel lonely, but we have the greatest gift of all, which is praying anywhere, any time to God.  Let me toss it to you, Kat. We did talk about prayer earlier, so feel free to touch upon that. How you incorporate that to your everyday life, you know, especially with you working, with your other duties in the Church. So how often do you think about taking care of your spiritual needs? Kat: Oh, taking care of my spiritual side? About prayer. Like what we talked about a while ago, I have made devotional prayers to care for myself every day. That devotional prayer was always giving me peace because of every daily tasks. (There’s) always pressure that puts me in my every day life. Prayer relieves me because it’s really hard to live in these times, life’s very challenging. Hannah: Right, and you mentioned devotional prayer. So, if I can ask you how often do you commit to your devotional prayer and during what time of the day?  Kat: Oh, I pray every 10 p.m. every night. It (changes) when I have tasks at Church, but I stick to it.  Hannah: You stick to it. No matter what.  Kat: Yeah, I stick to it.  Hannah: Now that is dedication right there. And, you know, I’ve also, you know, kept that same devotion too, you know, what I need to ask for with, you know, with really high needs such as, you know, a job or finding the solution that I need. But for you, Kat, and for most other members around the world, they set aside the time to pray. Because if you were to break it down, devotional prayer, to be devoted to something, you’re setting aside that time, focusing in that moment and in those moments is through prayer. So, of course, for any of you out there, if this is something that you seek or you want to incorporate, you know, consider, you know, setting an alarm clock, putting it in your calendar dates to devote that time. I know for me, like I always, always hear my alarm ringing like, oh, I need to set the time to pray, meditate, think of what I need to ask for. Now, let me throw it back to you, Brother Donald. Now some questions that we’re thinking about after listening to that is, is there such a thing as too much self care or too much focus on self? And as Christians, what is the best form of self care for spirituality and self, Brother Donald?  Brother Donald Pinnock: Well, let’s deal with that first question. Is there such a thing as too much self care or too much focus on oneself? Well, the answer, bluntly, is yes. If we become obsessed with just looking after our self and ignoring the attention or advice sought by others, that is a great mistake. In fact, it’s a great sin. It’s sad to say there are people that for them, life should be just about themselves and they’re ready to boast to others when it comes to their talents, their abilities, and whatever else. However, if we were to read Mark 12:30-31 we’ll just mention that our Lord Jesus Christ states there that the first commandment is to love God with all our heart, soul, and mind. But the second most important commandment of God, is to love our neighbor, as we love ourselves. I repeat: to love our neighbor as we love ourselves. So yes, we should take care of our health physically, emotionally, mentally. And again, when it comes to physical exercise, it can benefit virtually all aspects of ourselves. But what is most important?  We read earlier again, we are going to read what is recorded here in I Timothy, the chapter is 4 and the verse is 8: So the Apostle Paul states the following: Physical exercise has some value, but spiritual exercise is valuable in every way, because it promises life both for the present and for the future. [I Timothy 4:8 Today’s English Version] Brother Donald: So, please notice, the Bible is very clear when it teaches the importance of the value of physical exercise. It’s good for the here and now. It’s good and beneficial when it comes to the life that we now have. But spiritual exercise is valuable in every way. It promises life, both for the present. So please notice, that is why when it comes to us, members of the Church Of Christ, we practice spiritual exercise while looking after our physical exercise. And again physical exercise, we connect it with our emotional state of being even when it comes to our mental state of being. But spiritual exercise is beneficial not only for this life, it promises life both for the present and for the future. So, that’s why one should practice spiritual exercise because all the more it has a great benefit. And that is the greatest benefit actually, and that is eternal life. This is the reason why members of the Church Of Christ are always being encouraged to participate, because when one participates in the activities and events that are launched by the Church Administration, they are practicing spiritual exercise. So of course, our number one, obligation unto the Lord our God is to worship Him. And at the same time, we also worship our Lord Jesus Christ, because that is the commandment of God to worship His Son. We help again, and it was mentioned earlier in the program, when it comes to social civic activities, helping when it comes to our community, food, clothing donation, emergency services appreciation, even the young children and I believe it was mentioned earlier, even the young children of the Church, they get into the act, for example by entertaining the elderly in nursing homes. And if you could read or hear about the response of the elderly there in their nursing homes, when young children are singing songs to them, it really brings tears to their eyes. These are many other activities or ways by which Church Of Christ members not only take care of their physical, mental, and emotional well-being, but most especially, and we say most especially because it is the most important, none other than our spiritual health. Hannah: Thank you, Brother Donald, for once again providing us inspiration from the Bible on why it’s so important to take care of our spiritual health. If I can ask Nikki, how has staying in the Church being active in your duties, the activities, all the more focusing on taking care of your spiritual health, and spiritual-self, helped you? Nikki: It’s helped me in, in a lot of different ways. But, I think the main thing is I never feel alone. Right. And I think that was touched upon earlier that sometimes or oftentimes, there may be moments where we feel lonely and we’re isolated and where we’re just really deep in our thoughts, right? But as a member of the Church, you know, even if we’re physically by ourselves, we’re always with God. Whatever we do, wherever we are, he is just a prayer away. And again, that just ties into (what) the whole spiritual self-care is, God is always with us. He will never abandon us, you know, especially as active members inside the Church. You know, if we do things for him, if we do things to please him, then all the more, that’s when he will provide us with more blessings.  Hannah: Thank you, Nikki, for sharing and it just reminds me of where I was ten years ago. Me being a young adult for the first time at 18. And honestly, I’m so thankful that I’m still here. So back to you, Brother Donald. If I can ask, what does the Bible say on how one can get in touch with their spirituality? Brother Donald: How to get in touch with one spirituality—again, I go back to what we mentioned at the beginning of our discussion that, you know, some may have a different understanding about spirituality, but for us members of the Church Of Christ, spirituality refers to when it comes to placing our hope, our trust in the living God, the true God, the one and only true God, as introduced by our Lord Jesus Christ and the apostles. So, how to get in touch with that true spirituality? Become a member of the true Church Of Christ. That’s why we always extend an invitation to our listeners. Learn more about the Church Of Christ, at a congregation nearest to your home, and slowly but surely, you’ll get to understand why the members of the Church Of Christ are so adamant. They are so confident when it comes to their faith and their proximity and relationship with the Almighty God. He permeates their life or our life. You know, he makes his presence known in our lives when it comes to his deliverance, when he comes to him hearing and answering our prayers in so many ways. There are so many minute miracles that God has manifested in the life of his people. And the reason why we need to uphold our spiritual life, our spiritual, you can mention, self-care, and the reason why we continue to serve the Almighty God is because we are looking for something that can’t be found here, in this life, in this world.  And just to make things clear, let’s read first Thessalonians 5:23 and the following is stated, “May the God of peace himself sanctify you entirely; and may your spirit and soul and body be kept sound and blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.”  [1 Thessalonians 5:23 New Revised Standard Version] Brother Donald: Please notice this is the ultimate goal of members of the Church Of Christ, isn’t it brethren? For us to be able to greet the Lord Jesus Christ on his return, because those are able to do so, they will receive what is called salvation from the wrath of God, an appointed day, the day of judgement, and they will receive eternal life that is free of the maladies, the troubles, the pressures, the hardships that one cannot avoid when it comes to life in this world. That is why the Apostle Paul stresses, we should strive to remain sanctified or holy by keeping our spirit, our soul, and our body sound, meaning to say, healthy and blameless through righteous living. And that righteous living is based on obeying the commandments of God. That includes worshiping him, avoiding being involved when it comes to any activity that goes against his teachings or goes against his commandments. Again, the very reason why members of the Church Of Christ are being motivated to participate because the more we participate in these activities and events, the more we prove that we are living that holy or decent, that righteous way of life, and all the more, this will make us worthy on the second advent of our Lord Jesus Christ. You know when it comes to our discussion at this time, beloved brethren, it only goes to show how fortunate we are to be members of this Church, because there is a feeling of contentment. I believe it was mentioned earlier. You know, there’s that feeling of contentment that even though we face those difficult times, it’s like God is insulating us from the true gravity of the situation. He’s there. So yes, we become members of the Church Of Christ. We are serving the Almighty God and His Son, our Lord Jesus Christ. It doesn’t mean to say that we are not going to go through hardships. It doesn’t mean to say that we’re not going to be tested or tried, but because we continue to place our hope and trust in God, we prove it through our prayers, our obedience, our always worshiping him, the Lord our God, in turn, will bless us. And the greatest blessing that we are working towards. And that’s why we’re trying to look after ourselves spiritually, when it comes to self-care or physical care, the reason why we’re trying to look after ourselves is because of the greatest gift, and that is eternal life on the return of our Lord Jesus Christ in our true home. Hannah: Thank you so much for the timely advice, Brother Donald, especially with words from God coming from the Bible and for everyone joining us here today, whether you or my fellow co-hosts or if you’re listening with us. Of course, this is an ongoing journey for each of us to attain our utmost spiritual level and to guide others on how to practice spiritual self-care daily. Now we’re coming to that part of our podcast where we must part ways, but of course, we want to leave some encouragement and love for our listeners out here. So, any parting words to say to everyone out there? Kat: So I can say as a member and Church officer of the Church Of Christ even though life is challenging, spiritual care is there to help me out. I can certainly say that spiritual health is taking care of our own self with the guidance of our Lord God, with our relationship to Him. So to our listeners, I hope you were inspired on how spiritual care is discussed in our podcast today and I hope everyone will say that spiritual care is the best self-care that they can make in their everyday lives.  Kez: Short, sharp and simple. I think put God first and everything will follow. That’s it. Like, even if you’re feeling down, just, pray and do what God wants you to do and everything will follow. Trust. Nikki: Just a quick shout out to our listeners for, for always supporting our Heart and Soul podcast and shout out to, you know, my lovely co-hosts from all the different parts of the world. You know, thank you for this Heart and Soul conversation. Hannah: And thanks again. Can’t thank you all enough for joining us. Now, if you want more content, there is so much more to explore, watch and listen to on INCMEDIA.ORG or on the INCMEDIA app, which you can find in app stores. You can also follow us on Instagram @heartandsoulconversations for future updates and inspiration. Or if you want to DM us and let us know how this episode helped you, we’d love to hear from you. And like I said, there is more in store. Hope you’re on the lookout.  Thank you again for listening to the Heart And Soul podcast, brought to you by INC Media Audio, where we have honest conversations that nurture our souls. And whatever you’re going through today, remember that you’re not alone. And we hope today’s conversation brought you peace and closer to God. See you next time.

What Is A Wellness Journal  [Cold Open] Bernadette: I always try to end one of my entries with love. Why do I care about them so much and what has made me so angry? And then why do I still love this person so much?  McGill: With every writing session let me write something that actually matters to me. Let me write something that I will actually benefit from. Brother Donald: Keeping a record of what we go through in our daily life and trying to, not only assess, but work to improve. Well, all the more when it comes to our service to God and utilizing his teachings wisely. [Heart and Soul Introduction]  Gretchen: You’re listening to Heart and Soul, a podcast from the Iglesia Ni Cristo (Church Of Christ). I’m one of your hosts, Gretchen Asuncion. And it’s here where we have real conversations with friends who are helping each other reach the best Christian version of themselves. This is Heart and Soul. Gretchen: Hey, everyone! It’s Gretchen. With me today are our hosts, Bernadette. Hey, Bernadette.  Bernadette: Hi Gretchen! How are you?  Gretchen: I am good. Staying warm or trying to at least. How are you? Bernadette: I’m alright. Gretchen: Also we have McGill. Hi, McGill. How are you today? McGill: I am pretty good. I feel good. I hope you feel good as well Gretchen.  Gretchen: I do. Thank you. Thank you. McGill: Awesome. Awesome. Gretchen: And of course, we have a minister of the Gospel. Brother Donald Pinnock. Hello, Brother Donald, thank you so much for joining us.  Brother Donald: Hi, Gretchen, Bernadette and McGill. I’m very very happy to be with you right now. Gretchen: Awesome. Now, before I start here, I know many of us take notes during worship service. So why do we take notes during worship service? Is it something that inspires us, especially with the verses? You know, how is it that we give importance as we take notes during the worship service? McGill: Personally, what I think the the nice benefits of taking notes during worship service is that it’s a nice reminder, right? With notes, it’s a nice reminder about everything that really happened during the worship service. And then you could reflect on your day-to-day if it if there’s anything that you can learn from or to improve yourself as a person. Bernadette: For myself, when I take notes for the worship service, I take the overall idea and the verses that I could remember, and I put it on paper, and then I compare it to my week. And then I try to look for what is God trying to tell me in the lesson. Gretchen: Awesome. Well, I do take notes as well. So kind of helps me,  kind of conclude exactly what the worship service is. And they really do inspire me. So today we’re going to talk about wellness journals and their value in keeping track of and giving importance to the words of God we regularly receive. What is a wellness journal? And how do we start? And is it in line with what God wants for us? So with that, do you guys know what a wellness journal is? I guess, like how could you when you hear the term wellness journal? What is your definition of it? McGill: Oh, well, this is the first time I’ve really heard that a wellness journal is actually a thing. But based on what it sounds like, it sounds like a diary or a journal that you probably just write down your feelings or stuff to keep track of how your day is going or just to keep track of like how are you doing in your life? And so you can look back on the days that you’ve written and just see how you’ve grown. Bernadette: I really like McGill’s definition of a wellness journal! It’s pretty close to mine. I think for me, I kind of split it up to not just like the emotions, but also the cause and effect of what would happen in a singular day, and then, and I can also split it up to not just emotions, but a physical journal or a spiritual journal. Gretchen: Okay. So we have similar definitions as far as what a wellness journal is. So, a regular journal is usually intended for writing out events and emotions, which I sometimes gravitate to. But then a wellness journal helps keep track of our well-being and goals along with emotions and events, which I feel like I have a mix of both. So when it comes to our wellness, the first thing I think of is the words of God. We attend worship service twice a week, and while life can get pretty busy for us, I think our worship service notes are part of our wellness journals. You know, when it comes to maintaining our wellness, journals do an amazing job at tracking our growth. So why would anyone want to create a wellness journal?  “Ultimately, a wellness journal reduces anxiety and the panicky feeling associated with keeping all those crazy to-do lists in your head.  You get it all organized on paper and create solid, doable wellness goals”, guided by God’s word’s we received. [Source: https://sophieuliano.com/wellness-bullet-journal/] Gretchen: So from my understanding of wellness Journal is meant to help you look at all areas of your life. So movement, sleep, relationships and it helps you reflect on where you are and where you want to be. But it’s understandable if the Wellness Journal looks different for everyone! It’s supposed to cater to your goals. So I want to emphasize on how these journals are ways to help us reduce anxiety and overwhelming emotions and worship service has given us that outlet. I know that remembering these lessons are vital for me to get through life. So, how do you start your wellness journal? Do you guys have any techniques that you use for journaling? I know, Bernadette, you mentioned that you do have journals. Bernadette: Yes! So what I do after the worship service, once I get home, I write what I remember from the lesson, and then at the bottom kind of compare what I’ve been going through throughout the week and kind of figure out what exactly God is trying to show me through the lesson, comparing it with my own life. Gretchen: Okay, nice. So, Brother Donald, what does the Bible say about having a wellness journal? Brother Donald: Well, I’m glad you asked that, Sister Gretchen, because when it comes to a wellness journal per say, there’s nothing wrong with it. It can definitely help when it comes to all aspects of our life to make sure that we are doing well. I’m going to relate the phrase wellness and wellness journal when it comes to actually self-reflection, because when it comes to us, members of the Church Of Christ, that self-reflection and also that introspective look of our, most especially, relationship with the Lord our God, and not just our personal goals or ambitions in life is very, very important. Because we know, as members of the Church, our ultimate wellness level is to be worthy of attaining salvation. This is why we are admonished to do the following as we can read in Romans chapter 12, verse 2: Don’t become so well-adjusted to your culture that you fit into it without even thinking. Instead, fix your attention on God. You’ll be changed from the inside out. Readily recognize what he wants from you, and quickly respond to it. Unlike the culture around you, always dragging you down to its level of immaturity, God brings the best out of you, develops well-formed maturity in you. [Romans 12:2 The Message]  Brother Donald: So keeping track of how we are doing in the many aspects of our life can of course be very, very beneficial. Keeping track on how we are doing when it comes to our relationship with God is of far greater importance since the success that we yearn for will ultimately come from Him and not just ourselves. Gretchen: I really like that. How you started from wellness into that self-reflection. So our well-being, right, we have to take care of ourselves. Brother Donald: That’s right. Gretchen: So of course we have to reflect on how we are. Brother Donald: How we’re doing. Exactly. Gretchen: Exactly. And then how our Almighty God does guide us in our well-being. So hopefully we can get you in starting a wellness journal. Maybe this is that outlet, that new thing where it’s like it it opens up your mind, if you will. McGill: Yeah, for sure! God, God puts things in the way of me and to show me something and I think this is what He wants me to try is maybe try a wellness journal.  Gretchen: This is true. So we’re going to help you and those who are listening on how to start a wellness journal.  Step 1: Find a Journal Gretchen: Yes, a journal. That’s one way to start, right? McGill: Find a journal. Yeah, for sure. Pen and paper. You’ve got to start somewhere. Gretchen: Exactly! So, when you find a journal—for me, I gravitate towards something that either fits my style or even if it has, like, the pages that are that have little quotes. McGill: It’s got to look cute. It’s definitely got to look cute. Gretchen: Cute, but minimalist would be my style. Bernadette: I’m all about the pastel colors and for my adventure books all about green. Gretchen: I like it!  McGill: Nice.  Gretchen: They’re very positive and bright colors and… mellow. Kind of keeping a chill, so that if you need to, you know, calm yourself, it’s like, okay, let me… let me open up my journal here. So, when you do start and find that journal, that’s when you’ll conduct your self-reflection. So being honest with yourself and determining where you are and where you want to be in life. So, tomorrow in a week, month, even a year or two from now, maybe that three-year plan is going to be in process. So, Bernadette, what kind of wellness journal do you have? Bernadette: I have actually a lot! It’s kind of it’s kind of silly. So, I mean, I do I did talk about the spiritual journal that I have. I do have a physical journal where I include my workouts and how those make me feel afterwards. But my favorite journal that I have and I haven’t really gotten to fill it up this year is my adventure journal where I go on hikes and different trips and I kind of record my experience and what I would do the next time I go there. So for example, I went on a camp earlier this year, and it was the first time I didn’t go “glamping,” where there’s an actual shower, bathrooms and then that’s where I took a lot more notes because I really needed to learn how to do that. Gretchen: That’s awesome. You have it categorized and I think that’s great to be able to really do a deep reflection on the experiences that you have. So, McGill, when, notice that I said when, not if you start a journal, but when you start a wellness journal, how would you like it to be like if you when you start one, how would you start it? What are you going to put into it? It can be gratitude, reflective. McGill: Right. So, this is what I was thinking. So, you know, we’re human. A lot of us, we have problems in our lives right. And so for me, as of right now, I keep track of all these problems that I have and I’m trying to be more self-aware of it. So maybe looking back on these journals, I can remember these different problems that I have and be more self aware, so that, you know, I’m properly taking care of myself as I go from my day-to-day. I always want to try to make the best version of myself every day, so keeping track of this, I, I think would be a really good thing for me. Gretchen: That’s a great start and I cannot wait for you to tell us more once you do start again. Okay? [Laughs]  McGill: For sure. I’ve got you, Gretchen!  Gretchen: But with that, I know you said that you have a bad memory and then now when you start your journal that you’ll try to keep track of it. Well, that’s step two in having a wellness journal, right, to make it a routine. Step 2: Make it a routine. Gretchen: I mean, our season for this, our topic or theme for this season, if you will, is building those good habits. So, we make routines to be able to take care of ourselves to ensure that our well-being is cared for. So, have you seen any journals online or even on social media that inspire you to create and kind of get into that creativity? Because honestly, I dive into that. I gravitate towards it. I love it when everyone puts like different scrap pieces of paper and stamps. And it’s just it’s like art right after. But then you look at it and it’s like, Oh, maybe this is their mood. Bernadette: Yes! There’s a lot of different artists, where, instead of having like the typical wellness journal with words, they do their journaling through their own art. It’s amazing to know that, you know, an artist put all of his thoughts in the day in this one picture that he made and me, myself, I want to try that in this upcoming year for 2023. McGill: I do really like aesthetically pleasing items. And I mean, although I don’t write too much, I love pens. I actually buy pens. I mean, I know the ones listening here today can’t see. But I do have really nice pens. I love rose gold and gold. Like I have everything rose gold, like I mean, I’m showing to the hosts right now.   Gretchen: Oh, he’s particular! McGill: Yeah, I really like nice aesthetic things. And so, that…  Bernadette: You just need a rose gold journal now! McGill: Rose gold journal! Wouldn’t that be amazing? Just, you know, walking around with my rose gold journal. But these things actually, it does inspire me to use them, right? Because if I have, you know, really nice things that make me happy, like this pen, like maybe the upcoming journal that I’ll purchase, I’ll be inspired to use it. And I think that will help with my consistency, like the step to make it a routine. Gretchen: That’s awesome. I like that we’re all inspired by the things that make us happy. That’s like that’s a good thing. When it comes to your wellness journal, we have to strive for that positivity. Now I know that INC Media also came out with the Creative Christian Planner, so we can download that. McGill: Ugh, I want that!  Bernadette: I am fighting for one of those!  McGill: They’re so cool.  Gretchen: That will help keep us all on track, especially with it being a planner and for the upcoming new year. Now lastly, step three. So, we find the journal, we found how to make it a routine and how to make it, I guess, in accordance to our lifestyle, right? But for step number three, we have to determine what to write about. Step 3: Determine what to write about. Gretchen: So, I didn’t know where to start. I just kind of started writing. But then it came to the point that it didn’t really have substance. So when I read it back, I was like, “Wow, this is just either word vomit or just a brain dump of all my thoughts.”  And it was kind of hard to really reflect on it. So, I started looking up writing prompts, and that can help where it’s like, okay, “What am I feeling right now? Where am I at? Why am I feeling this way? How can we improve it? Or what do we need to change?” So Bernadette, do you use any journal templates with the different categories that you had? I know you mentioned about like the experiences right after glamping or not glamping, but camping. Bernadette: Yeah! I know I used to use templates myself because when I was a lot younger, I started my format for journaling more as a diary style, which is exactly like just throwing all of these emotions on paper. And then after a while, like, same thing with you, Gretchen. I realized I need something to guide me along the way. And then that’s when I started buying journals that actually had prompts in there. And then I would follow that prompt. And then the following year I would make my own prompts, personally. And then after that, I kind of went back to just dumping everything on paper. But when I do throw everything on paper now, I’m a little bit more aware of what exactly I’m laying on there, instead of how I used to just mindlessly, “Oh, today it was totally terrible!”  [Laughs]  Gretchen: McGill, I think you already laid it out when you said that. Yeah. When you start on this journal. Right. So it’s like if you were mad or any emotion or just something that seemed negative in how to not act in that way or how you could have changed the situation, should it come again.  McGill: Yeah, for sure. And I think I definitely, I think can apply to everyone, like how to lay it out, you know, using I know, Bernadette, as she mentioned, that she uses like templates or she organizes in a way that suits her needs, right? And I think everyone like for sure can do that if they don’t know really where to go, just do whatever feels good. Just try it. Write whatever. And I think that’s what I’m going to do. You know, I ran it through my head. What do I personally like? This is how I like to do it. This is how I’m going to do it. And so, you know, for example, for me, when I’m thinking about, okay, I’m going to start this journal, I don’t like big paragraphs, you know, looking at the big paragraphs, I’m not the fastest reader. So glancing at that, it’s a little bit intimidating to me. So maybe how I would like to do it is maybe bullet points. I like bullet points. They’re nice and short. I could read it fast as it is and it gives me a reminder. It accomplishes all of my goals and it’s perfect for me. Maybe it’s not best for other people. Maybe other people like long paragraphs and they should write long paragraphs. So yeah, I think when we kind of do these wellness journals just have it suited for how you want to do it. There’s no right way to do your own journal, right? Gretchen: Yes, I really like that with the example of Bernadette’s different journals that she has, and then just hearing how you plan to do your wellness journal, McGill that’s, that’s great to have. So we already have an amazing foundation when it comes to looking for peace and resolving it. And you know, it is through our worship service and with our wellness journals, they are a great tool we can use to monitor how we follow God’s guidance in having a stable and healthy life. And when it comes to making life-changing decisions, these journals, notes we take in the worship service, or our own unique wellness journal can help us make decisions and take the right steps in life. Now, Brother Donald, with our wellness journals and when we take the time to take notes in the worship service, how can we benefit or how can we be guided by God’s words to be able to focus towards our goals and, you know, our well-being with our journals? Brother Donald: Sister Gretchen, that was a really, really good question. First of all, I want to comment on the benefits of having that wellness journal. And I believe what you’re talking about is actually physically writing down rather than typing in. Because writing is more personal. Do you get it? Because now you’re really it’s a part of you that’s actually writing down on a piece of paper. It’s more intimate, it’s more you. And I believe that’s going to be more beneficial in actually writing it on a, you know, a cold keyboard and it’s stored there on your computer. Meanwhile, you have a journal that you can pick up at any time. And when it comes to those journals, again, they’re going to help us when it comes to our self-reflection and for us to improve. And that’s really in-tune or in consonance with what the Bible teaches. Proverbs 4:26 and verses 14 to 15 also, and this is stated: Ponder the path of your feet, And let all your ways be established. Do not enter the path of the wicked, And do not walk in the way of evil. Avoid it, do not travel on it; Turn away from it and pass on.  [Proverbs 4:26, 14-15 New King James Version]  Brother Donald: So, as the Bible teaches, one should ponder the path of their feet and let all their ways be established. So, careful thought should be given when it comes to the direction of one’s life. That’s why, again, the wellness journal can be beneficial in every aspect of our life. And as an added reminder, the Bible states that we should not enter the path of the wicked. For sure, a servant of God’s plans for success, those plans will be derailed if they follow the ways of evil people. One should remain living in accordance with God’s commandments and through their obedience the plans that they are focused on will definitely be successful because they will have God’s blessing attached to that hope or aspiration. Gretchen: I like that. I’m going to take that to heart. And maybe this might be my theme for my new journal. So ponder the path of your feet and let all your ways be established. Brother Donald: Yes. Exactly.  Gretchen: So, with that careful thought, right, it’ll help guide us being able to reflect on what’s being taught in the worship service and being able to guide us through this life, especially when we are, you know, either bombarded with the troubles or trials or even sometimes, you know, society itself may influence or try to tempt us in other ways. Brother Donald: Exactly. Yes. So, that wellness journal, especially if we’re going to include those biblical reminders, you know, that’s really going to help us when it comes to the path that we take in life. You know, we are always going to be making sure that what we are planning to do is in accordance with the will of God and all the more, we’re going to be blessed with success. Gretchen: I love that! I’m getting really excited for the new year and having a brand new wellness journal just because of this episode!  [Laughs] Gretchen: Now, with that. So, [in order for] us to be focused, especially if we are starting to journal. So McGill, take note even if it is just a mental note, okay? McGill: Got it. Don’t worry. All ears, all ears.  Gretchen: So, I read an article that suggested the following steps to get you started with journaling. And it’s actually pretty easy to remember the acronym is WRITE: W – What topic R – Review and reflect I – Investigate T – Time yourself E – Exit smart [Source: https://whateveryourdose.com/what-is-a-wellness-journal-a-mindfulness-practice-to-make-life-simple/ ] Gretchen: So “W” what topic? So what exactly are you writing again? For me, I tend to just bring it up and it’s like, okay, let’s focus. “R” review, do or reflect. And that is what we have been talking [about] from the beginning, is that self-reflection. Now “I” is investigate. I think this is, I don’t know, help me out you guys. How, how would you investigate? Like if you have this topic now you’re reflecting, how would you investigate? McGill: I think looking at your past scenarios that maybe happened today. Investigate by looking at your past day and seeing if there’s anything that relates to the topic that you were going to write about. I think that’s a nice way to investigate.  Bernadette: Even checking in with friends before you write does help. You don’t have to give them the full essence of what’s going on in your mind, but you can ask them a few questions like, “Hey, did I? was a little too harsh when I spoke earlier today?” And then they’ll confirm or deny.  McGill: Yeah, that’s a great idea. It’s always nice to have a third party perspective from which because you definitely can have blind spots, right? I definitely have lots of blind spots that I’m not very aware about, but, you know, my friends would tell me like, “Oh McGill, you know, this thing happened. I was like, Oh, wow, I didn’t even notice that about myself. Thank you for letting me know.” Gretchen: Yes. It’s good to have our friends or even loved ones to just kind of keep us on track too, while we’re keeping us on track. They’re keeping us in check. McGill: Yeah! I scratch your back, you scratch my back. There we go!   Bernadette: It’s a community effort!  Gretchen: All right, so “T” time yourself. For me, I try to set aside at least I don’t know, maybe 10 minutes? Because it’s just like, okay, if I feel like I have to write, then I’ll just write it down. But then I have to stop because, again, it’s like all just brain dumps. So it’s like, okay, let’s really reassess exactly why we’re writing. Maybe sometimes it is just too really brain dump. Or maybe it is just words, maybe it is just like, okay, topic, what’s going on? How am I feeling? I’m going to write for like 10 minutes and then take a break. So I don’t know. That’s kind of my perspective on timing myself when journaling. I don’t know. What are your guys’ thoughts?  Bernadette: I take, I could take as little as 2 minutes or I think the most I’ve ever spent on a journal was 3 hours. And I didn’t mean to! I didn’t mean to. I just put my pen on the paper and then suddenly it was 2 a.m. McGill: Wow. That was a very adventurous night, I imagine.  Bernadette: A lot of words that will never be spoken from my mouth. McGill: When I think about timing myself, maybe not like the duration of how long I’m journaling for, I when I think about timing myself, maybe it’s like a consistent routine. Maybe at a certain time, at a certain point of your day, maybe right before you go to bed, you time yourself. Okay. Or maybe at 10 p.m. every single day, that’s when I’m going to start writing my journal. And then from there, because I feel like it doesn’t have to be like a set amount of time. Maybe you had a long day and there’s a lot to write about or maybe had a short day and you don’t have too much to write about. So I think what really matters, for me at least, is just the consistency, right? You know, same thing with like prayers is to, you know, have that consistent flow of praying and so that God can really see that you’re sacrificing and could see that what what you ask in the prayer is something that you really want. So if I personally really want to improve myself with this wellness journal, I’d definitely time yourself being consistent every single day with it. Gretchen: Okay, That’s that’s a good way to look at it. I like that. Now for the last one “E” exit smart. So I take this as like, okay we’ve reflected on what it is that we need to journal about. So, to exit smart. So, I take it as,“Okay, this is what I’m going to do now.” I left it there, like how we cast our cares to God, right? We leave it there. Pray and be like, “I wrote all of this down. Guide me on what my next steps would be.”  Bernadette: At least for how I finish my journaling, I always try to end one of my entries with love. So, if I’m upset that day over something I try to give myself a compliment. Or if I’m complaining about a relationship with like either my family members or anybody, I try to remember at the, at least the last sentence, “Why do I care about them so much and what has made me so angry? And then why do I still love this person so much?” And because I tend to write before bed, I actually have my devotional prayer before I write. So that’s kind of how I exit smart. I pray at the beginning. And then I end my writing with love. Gretchen: I love that. So, Bernadette signs it or begins her journaling by praying, ends it with signing off with love. How would you do it? So when you reflect on what you’ve written, would you know any action steps? McGill: When I hear exit smart what I think that that’s what the goal of that is is you know you’re writing this one in this journal for a reason and so when you’re done a session of writing leave with something, leave gaining something. So you’re not going to just write it and not gain anything after it, right? You’re writing for a reason. And so when you exit it, you leave with something, you exit smart. Brother Donald Pinnock: Like a positive conclusion? McGill: Yeah, like a positive conclusion. Just like that, Brother Donald. So, you know, with every writing session to exit smart, let me write something that actually matters to me. Let me write something that I will actually benefit from so I can exit smart. I’m not going to just waste my time or just get it over with. Let me just write it and not like actually learn something and then every time after every session to exit smart, you’re growing every single time, after every session. So I think that would be really nice. Gretchen: All right. I like it. I like it. So with that, it seems that we have our goal is at the end of our journal entry, right? That we become self-aware of the situation or what it is that we have written. And sometimes at then, it’s like, okay, so what is my next step? What are, what is some guidance on how to be able to reach this goal or how to improve ourselves? Brother Donald, with the greatest resource in our life, the Bible, how can we continue to use that as a resource to inspire us to be able to get our guidance, to be able to accomplish our goals, or the things that we would like to improve on, such as our state of well-being and keeping track of our eternal goal of reaching our salvation?  Brother Donald Pinnock: What I’d just like to say, first of all, there’s definitely nothing wrong with chronicling or journaling our projects or aspirations in life and also what we do for our faith, of course, is much more important. Writing down our successes, even sometimes our shortfalls or mistakes, they can help us to gauge our efforts to reach our goals. And being God’s people, we can journal or chronicle our faith in the manner that the Bible prescribes us. We can read here in Proverbs 3:3 to 4:  Let loyalty and truthfulness never leave you; tie them around your neck, write them on the tablet of your heart, that you may find favor and a good name in the eyes of God and man.  [Proverbs 3:3-4 Christian Community Bible]  Brother Donald Pinnock: God’s people should chronicle or write God’s teachings on the tablets of their heart, meaning to say we should always keep in mind his laws, his statutes, and be guided by them in our everyday living and planning for our future. By doing so, the Bible teaches that we will find favor and the good name in the eyes of God and man. Such an individual will surely be successful. So, that’s why, when it comes to this topic, subject matter, I should say, about journaling, keeping a record of what we go through in our daily life and trying to, not only assess, but work to improve well, all the more when it comes to our service to God and utilizing his teachings wisely, you know, we can chronicle those again when it comes to our heart, as well as placing them on paper to make sure that we always have God by our side. And He’s the one who’s going to grant the success, He’s going to give unto us that satisfaction and that happiness in the midst of a very troubled and difficult world that we are living in. Gretchen: That’s the greatest reassurance to have, is to know that we have our Almighty God on our side. And it’s an amazing reminder that we can write God’s teachings down during worship services and we can remember what God is teaching us and help us live out our best Christian life. Thank you for the wonderful advice, Brother Donald, and everyone joining us here today. So with that, I will start by listing down everything that I need to create a wellness journal. McGill, I hope you took all our advice, especially from Brother Donald. McGill: Taking the mental notes with my ears!  Bernadette: Definitely send us a photo of your journal, McGill! McGill: Oh, it’s going to look so cute, Bernadette!  Gretchen: The rose gold journal. McGill: The rose gold pretty journal with my rose gold pen. It’s going to look super pretty and it’s going to look even prettier inside. Ok, maybe not! Because it’s going to be filled with a bunch of my personal problems and, you know, but it’s going to look great on the outside!  Gretchen: There you go. And if anything, it’s going to help you internally. And then there we are. We’re going to be guided by our self-reflection, but most importantly by God’s words. So, we hope to our listeners this discussion inspired you to either improve on your wellness journals or even start one like Brother McGill, a rose gold wellness journal, perhaps? McGill: Yes.  Gretchen: And of course, throughout the season we are building one healthy habit at a time. If you want to check out our sources, feel free to visit incmedia.org and it’ll be at the bottom of our podcast. Thank you again for listening to INC Heart and Soul, where we have real conversations with friends who are helping each other reach the best Christian version of themselves. Thank you everyone for joining in. Bye! 

Martin Zerrudo: Hey everyone, we’re back with a REWIND episode. And this conversation is a real treat because I’m joined by our Former Co-Host, Lois Paula, and Brother Jojo Bayani, a minister of the gospel in the Church Of Christ. We asked Brother Jojo all sorts of questions about navigating our friendships. You know, this episode was recorded a few years back, but there’s a lot of useful advice here—I definitely learned a lot from this conversation—and of course, got some spiritual guidance on how to be a good friend, and the kind of friendships that we should have in our life. Here’s that conversation. [Music] Martin Zerrudo: Question number one: when it comes to courting, do we put guys before our potential one that we’re going to go for? Or do we put our girls before the one that we’re going to go for? Krystal, what are your thoughts? If you were going to go for somebody and you knew that a friend of yours had feelings for them, is that ok? How do you navigate that situation?Krystal Quarles: I would personally talk to my friend and ask ‘Hey, is this ok?’ But I’ve been on the other side and I’ve seen some of my friends really, really happy and that’s ok too. That’s totally fine.Lois: I mean, Martin and Lenner, we asked about like, you know I’m talking about you’re in a relationship and your friends need you. Your boys need you, or you want to have a guys’ night…Martin: Oh, man. I’ve had this conversation with Erica many times, where it’s just like, for me, the time that I’ve devoted to my friends, that’s time for them. And then the time that I’ve devoted to you, as my girlfriend, that’s time for you. And I don’t want to mix and match and make the other person or make you feel like that time is… is negotiable, you know? If there has to be adjustments, then that’s fine, you have to adapt. But if I’ve given this time to Erica, then that’s my time with her. Like, I’m going to give you 110% of my attention. But then if it’s a guy’s night and we needed to chill, then it’s like, that’s my time with them. Like, they also deserve my 110% affection as my friends and attention as well. I don’t know Lenner, am I crazy?Lenner Sese: No, no. Not crazy at all. At the same time, on my part, I’m understanding as well. Out of our group of friends I’m the only single guy. So I know you guys have obligations to your girlfriends.Lois: Is there anything, any guidance in the Bible about who or what we should choose over what? If we are wrong in choosing one or the other? Is there anything — any guidance that you can give unto us, so that we can make the right decisions if we are presented with that challenge in the future?Brother Jojo Bayani: Sure, Sister LP. As we mentioned in part one, I’ll use the same verse. It’s 1 Corinthians 15:33 of the Expanded version of the Bible, it’s:Do not be ·fooled [deceived; misled]: “Bad·friends [company] will ruin good ·habits [or character; morals; [1 Corinthians 15:33 Expanded Bible]Brother Jojo: I think the one of the best and one of the main guidelines that we should have in choosing our friends is to make sure that kind of friendship is based on how we should be living our lives, in accordance to the teachings of God. And how do you know when one is either a bad friend or a good friend? Well, the Bible says bad friends will indeed ruin good character, morals, [and] good habits. And we can translate – simply translate – habits or character or morals to what we’ve learned. Let that be our measurement stick in basing the kind of friendships that we have with members of the Church Of Christ and even those who are not members of the Church Of Christ. I remember when I was younger I had wonderful friends who didn’t share the same beliefs. They were not in the same religion, not in the Church Of Christ. But I knew they were good friends because they respected my beliefs. And they didn’t try to steer me in the wrong direction.Martin: It really just boils down to that, that verse. If they’re good friends, then they’re not going to make you do bad things. And if they’re bad friends, then you probably shouldn’t be friends with them.Lois: So, what if we have a good friend – what if we love them and they have great intentions – we also have been blessed with a relationship in our lives, we have a great boyfriend or girlfriend, but they don’t get along. Or there’s something of one party who doesn’t like something of the other party.Martin: Yeah. Sometimes your friends don’t like the one you’re with.Lois: Or sometimes the one you’re with don’t like your friends.Martin: What should we do?Brother Jojo: Colossians 3:12, perhaps, Brother Martin, would give us an insight with regard to trying to [answer]. That’s a difficult question to answer, but Colossians 3:12 of the Living Bible goes like this, the first part goes like this:Since you have been chosen by God …[Colossians 3:12 Living Bible] Brother Jojo: That’s our faith. We are the chosen people of God in these last days.Since you have been chosen by God who has given you this new kind of life, and because of his deep love and concern for you, …[Colossians 3:12 Living Bible] Brother Jojo: Here we go…… you should practice tenderhearted mercy and kindness to others.[Colossians 3:12 Living Bible] Brother Jojo: You know what? Based on – I’ve been married nearly 25 years now, brethren, so it’s been a while since I’ve dated – but as far as I can remember, when it comes to love, you’re pretty much going to love who you want to love. It doesn’t matter what your friend or your best friend says. I believe we have to keep in mind that if we have a true friend, if we have a best friend, and if they are practicing what the Bible says – being tender hearted, being merciful, being kind – they won’t mislead us based on what they see. Because sometimes when we’re in love, we can’t really see. Reality is distorted pretty much, you know?  The heart is in control and the brain goes nuts sometimes, when we’re in love. But, if you have a true friend, and you’ve had that friend for years and years, and you’ve had a wonderful experience with that friend, knowing that he or she has been there and has consistently given you good advice, of course, based on our teachings, then, when you’re in love, I think you should still listen to that friend. Because that friend, if that friend really cares about you, and that friend says something like, “well, you know, this and that,” I think, in as much as we’re in love, at the same time, I think we should be open to those advice that that our friends – our true friends – are giving us because they are our friends. This is the way that they manifest their kindness. This is how they practice their mercy by trying to tell us, based on the commandments of God, the advice that we should be receiving at that given point.  I’ve had experiences like that in the past where a good buddy says, “Well, I don’t think she’s the right person for you.” And, you know. I’m just speaking from experience. When you’re in love, you are in love. You know, even if that’s your best friend, you know, you’ll probably say something like, “You don’t know what you’re talking about.”Martin: Yeah. Or, “That’s not what I want to hear.”Brother Jojo: “This is the perfect woman for me,” you know? But then, in the end, when the relationship doesn’t go as you expect and you go back to your buddy and you say, “You know, thank you. Thank you for that advice that you gave me… a year ago.” Martin: Yeah. Brother Jojo: You know, they turn out to be right, especially if they are true friends basing their advice when it comes to our teachings.Martin: Thank you, Brother Jojo. Like, that’s not always something that people want to hear. They want to hear, “Well, the Bible said, you know, 1 Corinthians, love, love, love. And this is the one who I think is for me, so if God blessed me with this person, then I’m going all the way! And if you don’t support it, then you don’t support the love that God gave me!” But, like you said, it’s not always cut and dry like that. Like, sometimes you do have the rose-colored glasses on and we don’t see what’s in front of us, but our friends do. And the reminder for us to have tender hearts, that they care about us, they just want us to do well in relationships. I think that’s so important.Why do you think sometimes, Brother Jojo, that that’s hard to accept? Or that there’s some resentment? Like, oh, you’re just jealous of what we have, or you don’t understand what we have. Why do you think sometimes we have that feeling, though? Brother Jojo: Throughout my life, leading [up] to being married to Sister Vernie, prior to that, I had three serious relationships. And for relationship number one, I thought that she was the one. Relationship number two, I thought that she was the one, again. And when it came to relationship number three, when we were actually already engaged to be married, I absolutely thought that she was the one, but it turned out that she wasn’t. It’s just a difficult thing when you’re in love. As a minister, I’d like to admit that, learning from my past experiences, when you’re in love with someone, it really can – if you’re not careful –  take over just about every aspect of your life. Because when you’re in love, you’re in love! I mean, with probably the exception of religion, there comes a time when you’re deeply, deeply, madly in love, that it just takes over your whole life. And, you know, sometimes we can be blinded by that love, and in no longer believing what’s true, or in no longer accepting what would be right or appropriate or applicable for us because we’re head over heels in love with that human being.That’s why it’s good to have friends that are grounded by the truth. You know, if you have solid members of the Church Of Christ who are your friends and who have been there for you for years and years, I think you should really listen to them when you’re in the process of courting because they can be God’s instruments, too, in leading you. Fortunately for me, relationship number four, that was Ka Vernie. Finally! Lois Paula: Winner, winner!Brother Jojo: Finally, she was the right one.Martin: Yes. Brother Jojo: It’s been 25 wonderful years living with this person.Lois Paula: Yay, congratulations!Martin: Wow…Lois Paula: And on the other side of that – Brother Jojo, Krystal, Lenner, Martin – you know, when you are married, it changes a little bit because you are now, you know, promising your loyalty to this other person, and then you have all these outside influences, you have these friends of yours or situations in your life where you might not agree with your spouse. And so, at what point then do you say, “no, I’ll choose my friends. My friends are guided, you know, by God, and they’re instruments of God that they’re teaching me and bringing light to something that I’m not seeing.” When my spouse here is the one saying this. Do you think that there is a difference in that? Do you think that it now changes? Personally, in my experience, it has changed. And now, you know, no matter if something comes up, if a friend has an opinion, you know, that’s different from my spouse’s, ultimately, as the wife, I listen to Brother Glenn, and I trust that he’s guided to be the one making the right decisions for us, and so I follow. Do you think it changes it all? Brother Jojo, am I wrong in that?Brother Jojo: No. No. Your allegiance, our allegiance and our ultimate trust and confidence has to change, Sister LP. And, God willing, for Brother Martin, it’ll be Sister Erica for you. Martin: Yes!Brother Jojo: And I know Sister Erica, so take care of her, bro!Martin: Yes. You are the friend that I will listen to. I will listen to you, for sure.Brother Jojo: But anyway, I’d like to go to Ephesians, chapter 5, verse 23, of the new King James version for the answer, it says: For the husband is the head of the wife, as also Christ is the head of the church; and He is the Savior of the body. [Ephesians 5:23 New King James Version] Brother Jojo: And in verse 25, it says: Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave himself for her, [Ephesians 5:25 New King James Version] Brother Jojo: So then, when we do get married, I don’t care if there is a best friend out there, eventually as we grow in love and in our commitment and in our relationship with our spouse, the spouse – ideally and spiritually, based on these verses that we just read – should become the – aside from God, of course – should become our best friend in life because Christ and His relationship to His Church was compared to the relationship of a husband to his wife. Christ gave His life for the Church. That’s how much He loved the Church. And what Apostle Paul is saying here is, well, wait a minute, that’s how much love we should also have for our spouse. So, when we do get married, Sister LP, and for everyone else and for all of those listening to this podcast, once we do get married, then we have to have that shift or transition in allowing our spouse to become our best friend and our best guide and advisor when it comes to, you know, our life. Again, you know, first and foremost is God and His Son, of course. But then, if you happen to be a member of the Church and you have a faithful husband or a faithful wife, let her and let him be your best friend from that time on.Martin: So, it’s within our culture, but I think this is an issue. I mean, it’s an issue in a sense that it’s on I think on the minds and hearts of brothers and of guys more so than than sisters. And that’s we’re not supposed to court outside the Church. And so, we do come across, and we will come across the situation like Brother Lenner and I did, where we end up having to go for and get to know sisters who have been with other brothers that we may or may not be really close friends with. Should we still be bothered by that? Like, it’s 2016, the Scripture has been the same since the beginning. Should brothers just man up and let it go? Like that, just accept it. This is the teaching. We shouldn’t make it an issue. Or is there a more tender way of navigating that courting landscape so that we’re not offending brothers? You know? How do, how do we…Lois Paula: Krystal was saying, it doesn’t only happen to brothers or to guys.Martin: Yeah, well, for sure. I mean, it happens to sisters, but you know, guys get territorial about it.Lois Paula: Oh, I promise, girls do too. But it’s not a territorial thing. It’s… it becomes almost like this second guessing of themselves, this insecurity, where it’s like, well, how do I compare to this girl or what does she have that I don’t have? Martin: See? So, it’s stressful, Brother Jojo. It’s stressful because we’re always comparing and our primal instincts as guys, I guess, are trying to stake out territory and who is first and who’s second and, you know? [What] do we make of that landscape?Brother Jojo: WOW. Lois Paula: Sorry, Brother Jojo [laughs] Brother Jojo: I think the best way to answer that question, Brother Martin and Sister LP, is as long as you break it off cleanly, in a very Christian way… If, you know, for example, you went out, and you got to know each other, and after six months or after a year it just, you’re just not… compatible – if we can use that term, compatible – then, you know, be Christian about it! Be Christian. You know, sister, we’ve already had our prayer for a year, it doesn’t seem like we’re getting closer, in fact, we’re drifting further and further apart from each other. As long as you do it the right way, you can still have a wonderful Christian relationship all throughout your life.And once you break it off with someone. This is not from the Bible, brethren. This is just [my] personal opinion. You know, I don’t care what happened to you in the past. You know, I have no control over… who did you go out with a year ago? Who did you go out with five years ago? What kind of relationship did you have with that person? It doesn’t… To me, it doesn’t matter what happened. What matters is the moment, you know, the moment that we met, in the time that we’ve been able to spend and share with one another. Did we gel? Were we able to be compatible? Forget about the past! I think that’s just basically ego. You know, when it comes to love, you set aside your ego, especially if you’re praying for this person and if you’re praying for the relationship to [work out], this potentially could be your partner for life that you’re praying with.Lois Paula: And I love, Brother Jojo, how you mentioned… we asked, how do you get over it? You mentioned ego. How do you deal with other brothers or sisters in the faith where you don’t want to offend them? You know, we talked about, OK, do we just be mature about it? But you answered it. You said be Christian. And that’s, you know, holding the values of love and compassion in our heart because we never know who they might meet or who they might come across. And we always want, like you mentioned, to make sure that we leave our relationship in the best Christian manner.Brother Jojo: If there were any hurt feelings in the past. In Ephesians 4:32 of the New King James version, says this: And be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God in Christ forgave you. [Ephesians 4:32 New King James Version] Brother Jojo: And so it’s just, again, after we get rid of that pride you know, there’s nothing left but to be kind and to forgive one another. If feelings were hurt along the way, then if we sincerely didn’t mean to break people’s hearts, then we have to forgive and go on with our lives.Lois Paula: Christian code. Not bro code, not girl code. Martin: Oh yeah. Christian code. Christian code. Let go of the ego and let in the love. I love It.Martin: Thank you so much, Brother Jojo. And you know what’s crazy? We set off talking about this topic of friendship, trying to find the love of the friendships that we have. But then, you know, these relationships, they interconnect how we love ourselves as friends, how our friends show their love for making us choose the right person that God has sent for us. And then, now that we’re with that person, how [does] that relate to the friends who may have had a relationship with that one… Like,  it all interconnects. And it’s crazy that, biblically, the answers are all there, Brother Jojo. So, thank you so much for that. And as we end this part two of Friendship – loving our friends, LP, was there anything else that you want to talk about? I was just going to really quickly read just one comment from our Instagram posts…Lois Paula: Please do. Martin: … that kind of encapsulates what we’ve been talking about. What we did was we went online, of course – #HeartAndSoul – and whenever we have questions – #AskHeartAndSoul. And so, we said, “Send your friend a shout out and tell us why that person is an awesome friend.” This one [is] from Sister Kristen Fragata: Kristen Fragata: Jadlyn is an awesome friend because she just is! She’s beautiful on the outside, but more so on the inside. She has a kind, loving and a very helpful heart. And I admire her patience and her diligence in performing her duties primarily as a head secretary. She’s very reliable and very trustworthy, and she just gets me as a friend. She knows what I’m going to say or do even before I say it. And words cannot express how thankful I am for this friendship that God has given us. Thanks for all you do, best! I love you!  Martin: So, I’d just like to take this moment, before we end, because he’s on the panel. Thank you, Len. You’re an awesome friend because even though we’ve only been friends for three years, and we’re a very opinionated bunch, and you kind of soak it all in and observe. Thank you for your patience. I can only imagine how hard it is to sit in a car full of the guys saying the craziest of things, wanting to do the craziest of things, and you’re always there – patient and providing the right amount of academic input and knowledge and advice and sincere sound thoughts. So, thank you for your patience and for your friendship, bro. I appreciate it a lot.Lenner: Any time. I’m glad I got to be on this podcast and I appreciate you bringing me on this. Lois Paula: Len, do you have a shout out to another friend? It doesn’t have to be Martin, just so that we can go outside our circle of friends here. A shout out you’d want to give to anyone else in your life?Lenner: I guess, shout out to Brother Ben and Brother George. Also to my brother he’s really close to me, obviously, so shout out to him, Brother Albert.Lois Paula: Cool. And to Sister Krystal, thank you for being you. Thank God for you, for sending you to my life, for your honesty and your loyalty, your trust in our friendship and faith in what we could be. Thank you. I love you. See, short and sweet. I did it! But Krystal, do you have a shout out? Not to me, but anyone else? Friends or family that you want to give? Krystal: Sure. I just want to say hi to everybody in San Diego, all the girls over there. Lois Paula: They better listen, we will send this [to them]. We love you, guys.Martin: And we can’t end without asking Brother Jojo. So, Brother Jojo, who is your friend shout out?Brother Jojo: You know what? Just Sister Vernie. Lois Paula: Aww! Brother Jojo: Sister Veronica Cancio Bayani has been… we’re going to celebrate our 25th wedding anniversary next month, and just being part of this podcast has made me realize, you know, I’m going to let her listen to this once it comes out and I’m just going to say thank you. Man, I mean 25 years of putting up with my stuff! I thank her for loving me the way that I am and putting up with all of the… all of the… we’ll just leave it at that. But thank you for the opportunity.Martin: Thank you, so much. And thank you, LP, you’re a good friend, too.Lois Paula: Oh, Martin! Martin: Thanks for hosting our show! Lois Paula: Thanks for discussions! Thank you, Brother Jojo, Sister Krystal, Brother Lenner, thank you for joining us. And to all our listeners for always tuning in. If you have questions about love or relationships, #AskHeartAndSoul. You can directly message us on Instagram or Twitter or Facebook. We’d love to hear from you! But again, we thank you for joining us. Hopefully this prompts more conversation about love and relationships, friendships in your life with the people that mean most to you, and definitely will bring us closer to God. Again, I’m Lois Paula Riturban.Martin: And I’m Martin Zerrudo. And we’re just people talking love, talking love and relationships on INC Heart And Soul.  [Show Close]Martin: To be honest, Lenner and I don’t hang out as much as we used to. And Lois and Krystal may not be seeing each other as much as they used to either. But I think a wonderful thing we have inside the Church Of Christ is no matter how much time has passed, no matter where you are in the world, we’ll always be brothers and sisters in Christ, united by friendship and more so by faith.Martin: While we hope this episode was helpful to all of you, we want to hear your thoughts on this episode and what you gained from it! Leave us a comment on Instagram @HeartAndSoulConversations in any one of our posts, and let us know what you think. That’s it for us today! Hope we were able to help, hope we were able to connect and hope you’ll join us next time! Ready to listen with all your heart and soul. Take care.

[Lead In] Martin Zerrudo: So let’s set the stage. You like them. They like you. You’re both members of the Church Of Christ and are of age to start the courting process. What do you do? Are things moving too fast? Too slow? Do things feel easy? And is the relationship progressing naturally? Or does it feel a little forced? What do your friends think? What does your family think? Is God leading you into a relationship? Or is He trying to show you some red flags?  Let’s have a Heart & Soul conversation. [Show open] Martin: Hello, everyone, hope we’re finding you well, and that you and your family continue to be safe and healthy at this time. Today, we’ll be talking about whether God is leading you into a relationship or if you’re seeing something that maybe isn’t there. A lot of our listeners in the past have reached out and asked us to talk about the one. And we definitely have, but today we’ll be focusing more on being aware of whether or not they aren’t the one. Joining us today is Brother Donald Pinnock, a minister of the gospel in the Church Of Christ. Hi, Brother Donald, how are you today? Brother Donald Pinnock: Not too bad, Brother Martin. And thank you for having me on the program. Martin: We always love having you. So we went online and found a couple things people point to as red flags for when you may be forcing a relationship with someone. And here they are. The first one is you talk about them like they’re already your boyfriend or girlfriend, even though you aren’t. Number two, you bend over backwards for them and they never reciprocate. Number three, you defend your relationship to your friends who express concerns. Number four, you make up excuses for why they never call you or text you back right away. And lastly, you tell yourself that they’re going to want a relationship eventually, and that they will change even though they show no signs of it. So Brother Donald, why are so many youth today finding themselves in this predicament where they may be forcing a relationship that isn’t there? Brother Donald: Well, Brother Martin, there’s so many reasons. For example, there are those who, due to peer pressure, they feel compelled to have a relationship, whether it be an actual one, or, as you mentioned an imagined one, since most of their friends already have a boyfriend or girlfriend. Others may really want to have a meaningful relationship with someone. However, they’re just too fearful of approaching that individual. Of course, they’re afraid of rejection. Thus, they imagine or just assume that the other person has the same feelings for them. And they leave it at that. On the part of the females or as we call sisters in the Church, they may feel attracted to a brother, but in fear of being labeled as too forthcoming or just too aggressive, they resort to telling themselves that the individual they have a crush on has the same feelings or sentiment for them. In order to avoid creating such a scenario, however, it is very important that members of the Church keep in mind the following tenet or teaching of the Bible. And we can read the following in Proverbs 19:14: Houses and wealth are inherited from parents, but a prudent wife is from the LORD. [Proverbs 19:14 New International Version]  Church Of Christ members then are taught to ask God for everything that they need, including when it comes to a suitable or prudent wife, and in fact, husband for that matter. So in order to avoid creating an awkward circumstance, due to a perceived interest of a brother or sister of the faith, and of course, vice versa, they should conduct what is called a devotional prayer, by which they can ask God to clearly show unto them who would eventually be an appropriate spouse. Martin: Is it different for men than it is for women? You know, of course, times are changing, expectations in society are shifting and certain traditions may have changed, but as members of the Church Of Christ, who should take charge in asserting feelings and making intentions known, and what happens if things don’t work out? Brother Donald: That’s a very good series of questions, Brother Martin. As we know in society, normally, it would be the male who would approach the female to express his intent. However, we can see shifting social norms. And that is why now if a female is attracted to a male, she may take the initiative to express her feelings to him. In the Church it is most likely that the male or the brother would express his intent to the sister to establish a relationship. But even during those initial stages, the following Bible teaching is taken into account. In Ephesians 6:2-3 it states:  “Respect your father and mother” is the first commandment that has a promise added: “so that all may go well with you, and you may live a long time in the land.” [Ephesians 6:2-3 Today’s English Version] To show proper respect to the parents, then, male and female members of the Church, who feel mutually compelled to get to know each other better, would approach their respective parents to ask permission first. Considering that the husband is the head of the wife, and we can read that in Ephesians 5:23,  it would be the brother who would first approach the parents of the sister, whom he intends to court, to ask permission. But he, along with the sister, they should have a righteous purpose, Brother Martin, when it comes to courting one another, as we can glean from the following citation: 2 Timothy 2:22:  Flee also youthful lusts; but pursue righteousness, faith, love, peace with those who call on the Lord out of a pure heart. [2 Timothy 2:22 New King James Version] This is why Church members are not supposed to date just for the sake of dating, or to pursue satisfying youthful lust. That is why, especially on the part of the brother, he should conduct himself in the following manner. Psalm 119:9: How can a young man keep his way pure? By living according to your word. [Psalm 119:9 New International Version] The brothers should have a pure intent when it comes to courting a sister and not intend to take any undue advantage of her. The couple should treat each other respectfully, by both of them heeding the teachings of God when it comes to their relationship. Now, if I can add, Brother Martin, if in spite of the best and the purest intentions, that the brother and the sister find that they are incompatible, well, they should mutually agree to stop seeing each other and inform the respective parents of their decision. Now, of course, depending on the amount of time invested during courting, there will be a certain level of sadness and even heartbreak may be experienced at least by one, if not both the male and female or the brother and the sister. Of course, conversing with family and friends would definitely aid in mending a broken heart. All the more, however, we should pray to God, because He’s more than capable, of course, of doing the following for us. As we can read here in Psalm 34:15,17-19 New International Version: The eyes of the LORD are on the righteous and his ears are attentive to their cry; … The righteous cry out, and the LORD hears them; he delivers them from all their troubles. The LORD is close to the brokenhearted and saves those who are crushed in spirit. The righteous person may have many troubles, but the LORD delivers him from them all; [Psalms 34:15, 17-19 New International Version] So it is very clear, Brother Martin, that the Lord our God is more than capable to help one heal after experiencing the emotional pain of a romantic breakup. Martin: So ultimately, Brother Donald, how can we determine if God doesn’t want us to be with someone? Brother Donald: Well, we mentioned earlier the importance of conducting that devotional prayer, asking God to guide us to who would be a suitable spouse for us. It is possible that we could meet a brother or sister in the Church, but if during their getting to know each other, or their courting, there are repeated issues, arguments, misunderstandings, and a general disharmony, then it should be fairly obvious that the couple are incompatible. Again, it would be best for both parties to mutually part ways and continue to do their part in preserving what we call as the love of the brotherhood in spite of not being connected romantically. Martin: Right. I remember, Brother Donald, you know, when I was younger, I was in a relationship and it didn’t work out and of course I was broken-hearted, was very sad and you know, you feel like oh man the world’s coming to an end because this person who I cared about so much who, you know, cared about me—I guess we don’t have a future together. And in my mindset at that time in my late teens, it felt so final, it felt like this is it. Never gonna find love again. I’m gonna be alone forever because it didn’t work out with this one person. And then you know, fast forward to today. That person is happily married. I’m happily married, very cordial when we see each other at the chapel. And it just goes to show exactly what you’re talking about that the focus is on, you know, really trying to pray and read about what God is showing you. And if it doesn’t work out, to maintain that love for the brotherhood that’s so important. And I’m happy to be able to see that it, you know, it truly does pan out so long as you put your faith and trust in God, even if the relationship doesn’t end up moving forward. Brother Donald: Well, you know, when it comes to, especially experiencing what we imagine as love in our teenage years or young adulthood, and it doesn’t work out? Well, we can really say that the emotional impact is very hurting for many people.  It takes quite some time in order to recover. It feels as if, in the midst of that breakup, as if the world is just imploding upon oneself. And it really takes some time to emotionally heal, and get on with life. But like you said, especially through prayer and trusting in God, then He’ll help us to heal. We can get along, we learned from our experience, and God be willing just like what happened to you and others, they eventually meet Mr. or Mrs. Right. And it is really to happily live ever after. It doesn’t mean to say of course, there’s no challenges. When it comes to marriage and living in this world there’ll always be challenges. But you know, there’s the right chemistry, and we still continue to trust God when we’re married to our spouse, and God is there to help us over those, those rough patches. Martin: Definitely. Now that we know how to read some of those warning signs or red flags, Brother Donald, how do we know, you know, conversely, how do we know if God wants you to be with someone? Well, how do we know that, hey, this is your sign right here, they’re right in front of you, they’re standing in front of you ready to go? Brother Donald: Well, we won’t see a burning bush, for example. In fact, that would be ideal, but being members of the Church Of Christ, it is our faith that God is going to guide us in a way that we should go or the path that we should take in our life. In fact, we can read that in Psalm 31:1 ,3: I come to you, LORD, for protection; never let me be defeated. You are a righteous God; save me, I pray! … You are my refuge and defense; guide me and lead me as you have promised. [Psalm 31:1, 3 Today’s English Version] So again, it shows the importance of prayer, Brother Martin, because through prayer, we can ask God to guide us in every aspect of our life, not just when it comes to our education, including when it comes to the one whom we could be potentially spending the rest of our life together. If there’s a chemistry and compatibility between the two, if they for example, find an easiness being together. And these and other feelings, they don’t dissipate, but rather they continue to grow even more prominent through the passage of time, then these are very strong indications that we have met the one for us. That is why it is imperative that a couple know each other well. And this can only happen through expending a significant amount of time and effort when it comes to the relationship. In the Church, our romantic relationship, of course, is with the intent that God be willing it will lead to marriage. And we know that marriage is a lifelong commitment. That is why great care and patience has to be taken to avoid a greater and lasting heartbreak of getting married just for the sake of it. Just because for example, a sister feels her biological clock is ticking or a brother, he sees that his peers are already married, so he needs to get married, and a brother or sister they meet one another and perhaps just after a few months are already talking about marriage, when in truth, they don’t really know each other well enough. And that’s why it cannot be overstressed the importance of really getting to know an individual well virtually on all levels in order for us to really find out if we have that strong basis to be able to commit to one another. And again, this is for a lifetime. So, great care, again, patience has to be taken to avoid a greater and lasting heartbreak of getting married just for the sake of it. And then through the passage of time we find out that we’re going to be struggling to commit to that commandment of God that when it comes to married couples, they should remain joined together till death do they part. Martin: Now when someone says, Brother Donald, if God wants you to be with someone, He will make it happen. How does a member of the Church Of Christ understand that, if He wants it to happen, it’ll happen? Brother Donald: Well, the Lord our God wants the very best for His chosen people. In Jeremiah 29:11, God Himself makes known through the prophet: For I know the plans I have for you,” declares the LORD, “plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future. [Jeremiah 29:11 New International Version] Because of this, when it comes to us members of the Church Of Christ, we really have to entrust ourselves to God, because we understand according to the many teachings, and also most especially when it comes to the fulfillment of many prophecies that we belong to God. And when God says, I know the plans I have for you, the you there being referred to are His people. And what, again, are the plans of God? He says, “Plans to prosper you, and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future.” This is the very reason why when it comes to members of the Church Of Christ, they’re not going to rely upon their so-called abilities or their intelligence, or their so-called wisdom that they may have gained through education. They’re not going to place their wholehearted hope and trust when it comes to their fellow men. Even if when it comes to those connections or people they know they are in positions of influence and power, a member of the Church Of Christ is going to place their wholehearted hope and trust in the power and the ability of the One who created them: they’re going to place it in God. That is why when it comes to finding the most suitable partner, as a spouse for us, again, that is the very reason why we should place our trust in God and we should pray unto Him, and God in turn is going to steer the course of our life. Martin: We want to thank you so much, Brother Donald, for that spiritual guidance and advice for those wonderful verses and really putting into context some of these questions that our listeners have. For our audience members out there, take the time to really reflect on the things that we heard today and try and see, really see: what is God trying to tell you? Is this something that He wants you to be in? Or is it not? And at the end of the day, of course, based off of the verses, trusting in God will always lead us to the right answer. So thank you, again, so much, Brother Donald, for joining us today. We always appreciate your wonderful advice. Brother Donald: Well, thank you so much, Brother Martin, I truly enjoy myself on this program, discussing important matters like this with you. And again, with God’s mercy maybe when it comes to our listeners, especially those who are in this stage of their life, that they are looking for that significant other, that they will abide by these decrees or these tenets of the Lord our God. And again, you know, don’t rush into marriage, because it is a lifetime commitment. Better if, for example, during the courting period of a relationship, and that there are so many upheavals and it really points that, you know, there is a strong incompatibility there, even though it may be painful, better the pain that will be for a short period of time, instead of the pain of getting married because we insisted upon it, but then having to face that pain until as we read earlier, death do us part. So again, let’s trust God, follow His decrees, and God is the One who’s going to guide us. Martin: That’s fantastic. Thank you so much for that, Brother Donald. To our listeners, please continue to follow our hashtag on Instagram, #heartandsoulconversations to stay up to date with all things Heart and Soul. That’s it from us today. We hope we were able to help, hope we were able to connect and hope you’ll join us next time ready to listen with all your heart and soul. Take care.

Always Trust God (Especially After a Breakup) [Lead In] Martin Zerrudo: Getting over a breakup isn’t easy. It can be a painful, sad and prolonged period of self-reflection. Many turn to friends, family and social media to find solace in their grief. Now when someone we care about, someone we love leaves, we’re left with so many questions. What if the answer to these questions—and about how to heal after a breakup, how to overcome a broken heart—what if they could be found in Bible verses? Let’s have a Heart & Soul conversation. [Show open] Martin Zerrudo: Last year, I was able to talk to a listener, let’s call her Jaya. Jaya is in her late 20s and lives in Anaheim, California. And at the time of our conversation, Jaya and her boyfriend, we’ll call him Blake, were very much in love. [Heart & Soul Listener] He was always someone that I was able to talk to really well, because we had a lot of common interests at the same time. We didn’t really have any problems like butting heads about things. We were always able to talk about anything. Martin: While some might find this rare, it’s because they’ve known each other for years and shared a common interest. [Heart & Soul Listener] We’ve actually known each other for a really long time. We’ve known each other for maybe like over a decade. We’ve always been really, really good friends. Yeah, we were really good friends. We fed off of each other really well. Simple things like you know, playing video games together. That was something we always did. That was something we always enjoyed. Martin: Jaya actually had feelings for Blake, but he didn’t feel the same at the time. Fast forward to now, when Blake confessed his feelings for Jaya, she had a funny way of responding. [Heart & Soul Listener] Yeah, 10 years ago, he rejected me. I remember exactly what he said to me 10 years ago. I kinda remember word for word, what he said to me. He said, like, “Oh, well, this is awkward.” I was like I said, and so, you know, when it happened again, like when he came around, and he was saying [he had feelings for me] Yeah, I jokingly, like [replied] well, this is awkward. Martin: Like the rest of the world, when the pandemic happened, their relationship would hit a brick wall, as their ability to spend time with each other was severely impacted.  [Heart & Soul Listener] We had ended up not seeing each other, but we were definitely a lot more sensitive. When we weren’t communicating, it was hurting us more. Things got really messy. Martin: They would have a big fight, their first in their relationship. And then Blake would send a text message that changed everything. [Heart & Soul Listener] Just had like our first I don’t know if I call it a fight, but it was really the moment things really fell apart. Martin: They wouldn’t talk for three months.  [Heart & Soul Listener] Yeah, I think we’re done. That’s all that was said.  Martin: Joining us now is Brother Donald Pinnock, a minister of the gospel of the Church Of Christ. Brother Donald, thank you so much for joining us today. How are you? Brother Donald Pinnock: Oh, I’m not too bad. Thank you, Brother Martin, for having me. Martin: Thank you for joining us again, trusting God after a breakup, Brother Donald, is what we all should do. But help our listeners put that into context. What does the Bible exactly say about dealing with a broken heart? Brother Donald: Well, first of all, Brother Martin, as we know, having one’s heart emotionally broken, is of course very, very painful. The time it takes to mend a broken heart varies from person to person. But if there is a common experience, it is that a feeling even physically ill at the deepest point of exasperation. In order to aid in the healing of a broken heart, Church Of Christ members are reminded of the following in Psalms 34:18 it states: The LORD is near to those who have a broken heart, And saves such as have a contrite spirit.  [Psalm 34:18 New King James Version] So members of the Church Of Christ are reminded to turn to God at all times. But most especially when they feel down, despondent or brokenhearted, because as the Bible teaches, God is near to His servants, whether it is because of their disappointment in failed aspirations, or even when it comes to a relationship, that in spite of their best efforts, it just didn’t work out. And of course, the most ideal way of turning to God is through prayer. And those who do so with a contrite or sincere spirit, the Bible teaches that God will hear and God will save them. Just how God will save those who are downtrodden and hurting emotionally is explained here in I Peter 5:6-7:  Humble yourselves, therefore, under God’s mighty hand, that he may lift you up in due time. Cast all your anxiety on him because he cares for you.  [I Peter 5:6-7: New International Version] Now, when it comes to our Almighty God, He may utilize instruments in uplifting us from the doldrums we find ourselves in. But He is the ultimate reason why we will be able to emerge from such a precipice and be able to get on with our lives with optimism. And that’s important. Martin: So while we are not immune to heartbreak, what do members of the INC or Iglesia Ni Cristo, have that can help them during such a period of pain and sadness? Brother Donald:  Brother Martin it’s none other than our faith in God. And when we say faith meaning to say we place all our hope, and also our confidence in what He can do for us, because we trust that God will never abandon His chosen people, as we can read in Isaiah 63:8-9. All the more this gives us confidence. And allow me to quote: The LORD said, “They are my people; they will not deceive me.” And so he saved them from all their suffering. It was not an angel, but the LORD himself who saved them. In his love and compassion he rescued them. He had always taken care of them in the past,[Isaiah 63:8-9 Today’s English Version] That saving grace of God has been experienced many times by Church Of Christ members throughout their life, not just from physical dangers or perils. But even when it comes to having one’s spirit uplifted, after experiencing emotional upheavals, including heartbreak because of a failed relationship. Martin: When it comes to those failed relationships, you know, sometimes you just can’t avoid them, no matter how hard we hope that they’re going to work out. So what advice do you have, Brother Donald, for those who have recently gotten their heart broken? Why should they hold on to hope when, at this point in their life, they feel kind of hopeless? Brother Donald: There’s no doubt whatsoever that God cares so much for those who are recognized as His people or His children. And of course, He wants the very best for them in their life. That is why for those who may have experienced heartbreak, it could be that God is actually saving them from the more severe heartbreak of, for example, getting married to someone who in the initial stages of courting may have appeared to be that ideal partner, but through the passage of time and getting to know them, actually, they are not truly compatible.  We may feel emotional pain for a period of time, but not the prolonged pain of being married to someone whom we eventually find to be unbearable or impossible to live with. And of course, we would have God to thank for that. On the other hand, perhaps the parting of ways of those who were courting was just a test, it was just a trial to determine the level of their love and affection for one another, that if both parties truly love one another, well, they would reconcile, they could move on and their bond would be even stronger.  But still, we can’t gamble when it comes to our married future, but rather, we should follow what the Bible teaches here in Proverbs 19:14: Houses and wealth are inherited from parents, but a prudent wife is from the LORD.  [Proverbs 19:14 New International Version] Brother Martin, you know, physical and emotional compatibility, it’s important to a successful relationship. I mean, you have to feel some kind of attraction to another, is it not? But we should not base our decision when it comes to choosing a spouse on our personal assessment or not just when it comes to the physical appearance. Because love itself is not just skin deep. That is the reason why we should ask God perhaps through a devotional prayer, to grant us a prudent or suitable spouse. This is what so many Church Of Christ members have done and that is why it’s no surprise that marriages in the Church, they last until the proverbial words death do they part. May those who are not yet married, but are endeavoring to do so eventually experience the joy of a lasting marriage, a marriage that was sanctioned by God, a marriage between a man and a woman, members of the  Church who truly adhere to the teachings of our Father in heaven, and they can feel that they are being matched by the Lord our God, and because of this, their marriage would indeed be a joyful and lasting one. Of course, once they are married the importance of living in accordance with the tenets or the statutes of our Father in Heaven, the responsibilities of the husband to the wife, vice versa, the wife to the husband, and if they’re going to be blessed with children, how they should rear those children. If we are going to utilize wisely, the teachings of the Lord our God in every aspect of our life, including when it comes to married life, then we are going to be blessed. Martin: Thank you so much for those wonderful verses. Whatever stage you may be in looking for love, praying for love, being in love, may be falling out of love and being heartbroken. It’s refreshing, inspiring, and it does fill us with hope to know that regardless of whatever stage you may be in romantically, that God is with you every step of the way. Now, just to close it off by Brother Donald, is it different now, because there’s a pandemic, because people are at home, maybe we’re all a little bit more on edge when it comes to dealing with a broken heart? How does somebody who’s isolated at home overcome all of this? Because it’s such a different time to be handling these kinds of emotions.  Brother Donald: It’s a really good question, Brother Martin, because of course, just being virtually isolated in one’s abode, by themselves under normal circumstances. I mean, there’s just so much pressure, emotionally, mentally. But if you’re going to add that broken heart scenario, because of a failed relationship, but of course, it compounds everything. Definitely, again, we need to believe in the power of prayer.  But at the same time, even though physically we may be isolated, we can utilize different means of communication, just to reach out to our friends, those who are close unto us just to have a conversation. So if we keep our friends and loved ones in the loop, we try our best to communicate with them, then they can also be God’s instruments in order to help alleviate those adverse feelings that we may be going through because of isolation plus broken-heartedness due to a relationship that just didn’t work out.  And at the same time, I can’t help but reiterate this point, that when it comes to a young couple who may be courting, but then the relationship just did not work out being members of the Church, we understand that marriage is a lifetime commitment. So it may sound harsh, but at the same time, you know, if there’s no real compatibility, there’s just too many differences when it comes to our characteristics. And that relationship does not work out. Well, when it comes to that pain that we may go through due to a breakup, and we mentioned it earlier, it’s much better than having a lasting pain of having to live with somebody whom there really is not that two-way love, or even to the point that you may separate abodes, but yet you cannot marry again because you know, we stand when it comes to the teachings of God that marriage is a lifetime commitment. That kind of pain is avoided, if before we got married, again, the Lord our God allowed us to really see who our to be spouse, what their true identities and their true characteristics are.  And perhaps God is showing unto us well, even though they are not a bad person, per se, but when it comes to having that intimate and that lasting relationship in marriage, then perhaps it’s best if you do not continue. So again, it shows the importance of just placing our trust, our hope, and the guidance of God through prayer. We ask God for a suitable spouse, we meet somebody, it’s not compatible. That’s not the suitable spouse that God has in mind for us. Martin: Thank you so much for that, Brother Donald, hearing those words, as someone myself who is now married, it’s so true to trust the process, trust your prayers, and the one that you’re meant to be with is definitely the one you’ll end up with, because they came from God. So thank you so much for that, Brother Donald, thank you so much for joining us today. Brother Donald: And thank you so much for having me, Brother Martin it was a pleasure. Martin: As always Brother Donald. To our listeners, please continue to follow our hashtag on Instagram #heartandsoulconversations to stay up to date with all things heart and soul. Oh, and I recently reached out to Jaya to see how she’s doing. And she tells us that she and Blake have resolved their issues. I guess they trusted the process because with God’s help they were able to give it another try.  Brother Donald: Oh, that’s fantastic news.  Martin: There’s hope for us all. That’s it from us today. Hope we were able to connect, hope we were able to help and hope you’ll join us next time. Ready to listen with all your heart and soul. Take care.

How To Prepare For a Successful Marriage [Lead In] Martin Zerrudo: Is the next step for you and your significant other marriage? Is it something you’ve already talked about planning for? Is that a topic you’re currently avoiding? What should you know before popping the question and how can you make sure that you end up having a successful marriage?  Let’s have a Heart & Soul conversation. [Show open] Martin: Hello, everyone, hope you’re doing well and are safe at home. Today, our topic is focused on helping our listeners gain a better understanding on what to expect when getting married and what to do to make sure their marriage can be happy and successful. At the end of the day, we want to give you as much information and guidance before you commit to one of the most important decisions of your lives. And joining me today to help us with that is Brother Felmar Serreno, a minister of the gospel in the Church Of Christ. Brother Felmar is a husband and father of two and is also the minister on the brand new Happy Life podcast, a podcast where newlyweds can get some tips on having a successful marriage. Hi, Brother Felmar, how are you today? Brother Felmar: Hello, Martin, and to the Heart & Soul team and to everyone who’s tuning in. I’m doing well, Martin, thank you for asking. And I just like to say it’s a great pleasure for me to be here on Heart & Soul. Martin: Thank you so much, Brother Felmar. And thank you for taking the time to help us with such an important topic that is pivotal and is an important topic for many of our young adult listeners. So, when it comes to deciding when a couple in the Church Of Christ should marry, what are some of the questions that they should be asking themselves? Brother Felmar: To answer that, let’s first be reminded that a true spouse is from God. This is proven to us by the Bible in Proverbs 19: 14 we’ll quote from the New Revised Standard Version:  Houses and wealth are inherited from parents, but a prudent wife is from the LORD. [Proverbs 19:14 New Revised Standard Version]  So based on this, one of the very important questions to ask oneself prior to getting married is, is this person that I am courting, or is courting me the answer to my prayers? Is this person the blessing to me from God?  Another important question to ask oneself prior to getting married is, am I ready for the blessing like what we heard from the Holy Scriptures, house and wealth are inherited from parents, but house and wealth or other possessions are not just things you just receive? Right? You need to take care of them. There are responsibilities that need to be fulfilled. So, so much more when it comes to marriage.  According to the Bible, in God’s design of marriage, which is the true and right design, there are responsibilities for the husband, and there are responsibilities for the wife, and there are also shared responsibilities. That’s why on the Happy Life podcast, we discuss things like making adjustments, expectations, communication as a married couple for members in the Church Of Christ who are at the courtship stage. Be sure to ask yourselves even before getting engaged. Are you ready for the blessing and the responsibilities that come with marriage? It’s important to consider that you have feelings for each other. But it’s also important to consider how compatible you are with one another, especially when it comes to working together and shouldering and fulfilling the responsibilities that come with marriage.  It’s important to ask too, if you are ready, financially, mentally and above all, are you ready spiritually? So I hope, Martin, that answers your question regarding some of the things that others ought to be asking themselves before getting married. Martin: Of course, we want to be able to ask those questions so that it helps us prepare, like you mentioned financially, mentally, and above all spiritually. But some might say, Well, I know some successful couples who weren’t 100% ready financially, and they worked out. Maybe they rushed into it too quickly, but it worked out. What would be our answer to those kinds of scenarios? Brother Felmar: Well, going back to the Holy Scriptures, to the verse that we just read in Proverbs 19:14, the truth is clear. A prudent wife is from the Lord. So a true spouse will come from the Lord God. So if it is the will of God that He will grant to an individual the true spouse, the answer to that individual’s prayer, and maybe it would not necessarily fit the timeline, so to say, when it comes to the norm, right, on how others have gotten married, but that is the will of God for that particular couple. So by God’s grace and mercy, things will fall into place.  However, that doesn’t mean that we should rush into marriage. Based on the Holy Scriptures, marriage is sacred, so we ought to be careful, and we ought to make the necessary preparations so that we will be able not only to receive the blessing, but to continue to take care of the blessing of marriage that comes from the Lord God, Martin: Very true, Brother Felmar, and I guess it just all the more indicates why the decision to get married in the INC is not one we take lightly. So how does one know when they’re ready to make an important decision? What if they feel like okay I may have all my ducks in a row, financially ready, I think God is answering my prayer. How do they know it’s time to make that important decision? Brother Felmar: Well, I think if those who are currently in courtship can say, “Yes, we care for each other.” So those feelings are there. But they can also say “Yes, we have proven ourselves to be compatible with one another.” Because even though emotionally, you know, they care for each other, they feel deeply about each other. But there are moments that arise where the compatibility is in question, a lot of times they’re fighting. Well, that can’t be a good sign. So that’s something that should be considered. What else? Again, we should also be able to say, “Yes, we are ready financially.” That is something that is important, because according to the Holy Scriptures, we ought to be able to provide for our household. What else should be considered? That we can say “Yes, we are also mentally ready. We are capable of making mature and responsible decisions. But above all, we are ready spiritually.” A man and woman who are about to make that decision to go into marriage must make sure that they are ready spiritually, both are spiritually mature.  So if we can say yes to all of these questions, then I’d say you’re pretty ready. I’d say, What are you waiting for? Assuming of course, you’re both of legal age. In addition to that, Martin, here’s a Bible verse, a teaching from the Holy Scriptures, that should also be considered here in the book of Proverbs 3:5-6 in the New King James Version:  Trust in the LORD with all your heart, And lean not on your own understanding; In all your ways acknowledge Him, And He shall direct your paths. [Proverbs 3:5-6 New King James Version] If you trust in the Lord with all your heart, if you acknowledge God, if you pray to Him regularly, the Bible says, “He shall direct your paths.” And that has been the experience of many members in the Church Of Christ, when we were not yet ready for marriage, although maybe we wanted to get married, but God, who knows us better than we know ourselves, He knew that we were not yet ready. God directed us. And when the time was right, God directed us again. But to avail of this wonderful and precise direction from God, it is crucial that we do trust in God with all of our heart, and that we are prayerful. Martin: Thank you so much for that, Brother Felmar. As someone who has been married for a couple of years now, can you describe to our listeners, maybe for those who are not members of the Iglesia Ni Cristo, Church Of Christ, the beauty and the splendor that is a blessed marriage within the Church Of Christ. Can you describe to our audience what that is like? Brother Felmar: You know, it’s very hard to put into words. It’s very hard to put into words. The Bible teaches us that when we put God first, when we make God our happiness, He will give us our heart’s desire. And that’s why I mentioned earlier, how wonderful it is to have that direction, that precise direction from God, because only the Almighty God knows us better than we know ourselves. He knows exactly who the right match will be for us. There are many things we cannot foresee going into marriage. Although you know, with what we can see things may look like they align. But there are also things we cannot see, because we are human beings, we are limited with what we know and what we can foresee. We don’t know what will happen five years from now, 10 years from now. Maybe in courtship, the chemistry is there. But will the chemistry still be there when challenges come, when you may lose your livelihood, or when your spouse is ill? But God knows those things. So again, only the Almighty God knows who the exact match will be for us, who will be our true partner in life and will compliment us on all levels, and above all, will be with us in our services to God. In worshipping Him and putting our faith in Him and in praying to Him, you know, until we make it to our salvation.  So having said that, to all of our listeners and, and to our friends who are not members of the Iglesia Ni Cristo or the Church Of Christ, the priority would be God. Know God first, make the Almighty God our happiness, understand His teachings and all of his commandments that we must fulfill so that we prove to God He is our happiness. And that’s why we always invite our friends and loved ones to know more about the Church Of Christ. Of course, we’re so happy when we have our friends and loved ones who are with us in the Church Of Christ, but really that invitation is for you. It’s for our friends, so that they will be able to experience how wonderful it is to have the true God and to receive His blessings. And a very important and crucial blessing in life is true marriage that comes from God. Martin: Thank you so much for that, Brother Felmar. And as you as a husband, how does that make you feel that that’s a blessing that you’ve been given in life?  Brother Felmar: It’s humbling that you know, like, the Bible says, when God is your happiness, He will give you your heart’s desire. So those qualities that I hoped for and prayed for, you know, when I was still single and praying for a spouse who not only would be my partner in life, but my partner in the holy ministry, so it is humbling that God, you know, He gave me really like what the Bible says, one’s heart’s desire. I don’t want it to seem like you know, I’m making my wife sound like she’s, you know, this perfect woman. There’s no such thing as a perfect man or woman, right? So, but really, you know, there’s the perfect one for you.  Martin: So thank you so much, Brother Felmar, for those wonderful verses and the spiritual advice. For our listeners who are considering getting married, and especially for our listeners who are newlyweds, we have a brand new podcast we recently launched and I’d love to share it with you. It’s called Happy Life, where you’ll have none other than Brother Felmar and Host Sister Myrtle Alegado to help provide Bible-based advice and guidance to newlyweds in the INC as they begin their new journey together. Brother Felmar, what can listeners look forward to when they tune in to Happy Life? Brother Felmar:  So you have to listen to each episode from start to finish, so that you can come away with the complete package that each episode brings, which includes reliable and relevant marriage tips from real life experiences of newlyweds who guest on the show. More importantly, Bible-based teachings, which are the foundation for a happy and enduring marriage. These teachings can be applied to resolving conflicts that may arise in marriage, as well as preventing future conflicts, especially serious ones that could severely harm a marriage. Our warmhearted and spirited host, Myrtle Alegado, does a wonderful job of keeping the discussion meaningful, focused on the topic at hand, and we have fun too. So lots to look forward to on Happy Life. Martin: I believe you also have an Instagram account. Brother Felmar: We do. Yes. Thank you for mentioning that, Martin. So yes, please, if everyone tuning in could follow us on Instagram, subscribe on Apple podcast, Google podcast. And of course you can find us as well on our website incmedia.org. Martin: Thank you so much for that, Brother Felmar, thank you so much for joining us for providing that wonderful insight. Please, for all of our listeners continue to follow our hashtag on Instagram,  #heartandsoulconversations to stay up to date with all things Heart & Soul. Thank you so much, Brother Felmar, for joining us. We really appreciate it. Brother Felmar: All praises be to God and thank you as well, Martin, and to the Heart & Soul team. Martin: Thank you so much, this your first time hopefully not the last. We look forward to it in the future. That’s it from us today. Hope we were able to help, hope we were able to connect and hope you’ll join us next time ready to listen with all your heart and soul. Take care.

What Does Self-Reflection Mean? [Lead In] Martin Zerrudo: When you reflect on the meaning of your own life, the struggles you’ve gone through, how does it make you feel? Strong for having gone through it? Sad for having to still deal with it? What does self-reflection really mean in the grand scheme of things? And more importantly, what do you think God is trying to tell you? Let’s have a Heart & Soul conversation.  [Show open] Martin: Hello, everyone, hope we’re finding you well, and that you and your family continue to be safe and healthy at this time. When talking about the importance of self-reflection. It’s an area that a lot of people can use some help with. According to some studies, the self help industry will be worth over $13 billion in 2022. This translates to millions of different methods out there meant to help us with how to reflect or how to get through the hardest times in our life. We recently asked on our Instagram @incmedianews using #heartandsoulconversations, what kind of struggles in life have you gone through, and here’s what you had to say. [Heart & Soul Listeners] Crippling levels of undiagnosed clinical depression, anxiety and migraines. I thought that was simply how people lived, and assumed that it was normal. I wasn’t happy most of the time, all the way up through high school. Being in a family that moves from one place to another, we’re trained that our lives change every two years. And so we must learn to adapt. As the new kid in town all the time I had to adjust. I did my best to excel my classes that I got bullied for being included in the honor roll. Even teachers and faculty staff bullied me, even parents who lived near us spread rumors about me. Growing up being the unreasonably disliked kid was tough. I would say loneliness, though there are those times when I felt the heaviness of being lonely, or feeling like I don’t have anybody there for me when I’m going through a hard time. And just feeling like I don’t have any friends. Martin: According to betterhelp.com three of the most common reasons why people give up on life are mental health issues, the feeling of not fitting in, and loneliness. And if you listen back to those clips that we just played, those listeners were going through exactly those things. So why didn’t they give up? Well, we asked them, Why didn’t those struggles break your will?  [Heart & Soul Listeners] What kept me going through day to day and dark nights were singing hymns and praying to God. It was traumatic. But it was also the time that I learned how faith works. When I feel like I’m on the brink of giving up, God provides a light of hope. And to know good things and good people are out there. I just have to keep praying and always have that sense of hope. Martin: For some of our listeners, when it came to struggles, it surprised them how hard it would hurt, especially when it came from a place that they least expected. [Heart & Soul Listeners] Being hit hard with my anxiety due to finding out the people I thought were my friends weren’t really treating me as one behind my back. I didn’t expect it to affect me to that extent. But it really shook my mental state at that time. I felt alone and my anxiety made me feel like I had no one to trust anymore. Because despite having the purest of intentions, people will still find something to pick on about you. Martin: Thankfully, as members of the Church Of Christ, when we take the time to reflect we have the ability to combine our self-reflection and introspection with our faith. [Heart & Soul Listeners] But I am so glad I got through that. Crying out everything to Him during my nightly devotional prayers really helped me get through that tough part. And I can honestly say that, despite it being a painful experience, it woke me up to the realities of life. And I learned so much from it. I just always keep in mind that our Lord God won’t ever leave our sides when things get hard. Martin: And even though it’s not always clear what God is trying to tell us at any given moment, our trust in Him remains unwavering, no matter what. [Heart & Soul Listeners] I always exhaust and pressure myself to do things beyond my limits, which sometimes leads me to anxiety. In fact, I did wish that God would just write His will on the wall, or speak to me with an audible voice for me to know which path to take to avoid failures. But I know God rarely chooses to make His will for my life that obvious. He wants us to be persistent in seeking His guidance, and to always trust in the promise He bestowed. I’m truly thankful that He helped me to always understand His will and obey with all my heart. Now, I overcome the fear of taking risks and the fear of failing because I know God loves me. And His love won’t lead me astray. Martin: Joining us now is a show favorite of ours, minister of the gospel, Brother Donald Pinnock. Brother Donald, how are you today? Bro. Donald: I’m not too bad, Brother Martin, it’s good to hear from you. Martin: Happy to have you on today. Brother Donald, you know, as we talk about self-reflection and the struggles that people go through, what struggles in life have you gone through? And why didn’t those struggles break you? Bro. Donald: Well, what immediately comes to mind, Brother Martin, is when I left Canada to pursue my studies in the ministry there in the Philippines in 1992. Of course, it was very, very difficult to leave behind my parents who, of course, were getting on in age, when it comes to my siblings, and also my close friends. Even when it comes to my place of employment. And not only that, having to adjust to a culture that was very foreign to me, other people there, this just made the situation extremely hard.  Of course, before I left, I tried to prepare myself as best as I could. But when you’re actually there, and feeling like a total stranger and alien to everyone and everything, emotionally, it was very, very taxing. But I truly believe that God wanted me to be there. And that belief acted as a catalyst for me, in order for me to immerse myself in the culture. And also when it came to my studies. Martin: Now, looking back on it many years removed from that situation, do you feel like maybe your apprehension was … was it an overreaction, an underreaction, or was what you expected exactly what ended up happening? Bro. Donald: Well, fortunately, before I began my studies in 1992, I did visit the Philippines in 1990. It was just for a few weeks and I was able to visit my wife’s family there. And again, that was my first trip to the Philippines. And there, we can say there was a bit of a culture shock when it comes to the stark reality of how many people were really struggling there, when it came to the economy and when it comes to other living conditions for so many. So in truth, that initial visit there to the Philippines, it kind of helped, kind of helped. But when it came to going there in 1992, and to be there for the next five years, well, that’s all the more that, you know, reality hit me. So my apprehension, I believe, was in a way, an attempt to brace myself. But when I was actually there, knowing that I had left my family and my friends and everything else there in North America to pursue my studies, you know, being human, of course, it was very difficult, extremely difficult. Martin: Right. And you know, that difficulty, perhaps they didn’t go into ministry but when you know, after hearing those clips, it shows that members of the Church Of Christ are not immune to the struggles in life. Even when they pursue their dreams, they’re not immune to those challenges. So what makes us all the more resilient to those struggles? Bro. Donald: Well, the same reason why I was able to overcome my personal struggles then when I was beginning my studies and until now, when different kinds of challenges come in different forms. Being members of the Church Of Christ, we are resilient, not because of our own ability, but rather because we place our hope and trust in God. We trust that He will give us the strength, the courage, the guidance, in order for us to overcome whatever we may encounter in life.  In fact, it’s no surprise because God has made and fulfilled such promises to His people in the past, as we can read here in Isaiah 40:28-31:  Don’t you know? Haven’t you heard? The LORD is the everlasting God; he created all the world. He never grows tired or weary. No one understands his thoughts. He strengthens those who are weak and tired. Even those who are young grow weak; young people can fall exhausted. But those who trust in the LORD for help will find their strength renewed. They will rise on wings like eagles; they will run and not get weary; they will walk and not grow weak.  [Isaiah 40:28-31 Today’s English Version] As this Bible citation reminds us, it’s not just the old but even the young who can grow weak and feel exhausted, especially considering the current time that we are living in. But God has promised to strengthen His people who place their hope and their trust in Him. In fact, God further encourages us with a following declaration written in Isaiah 41:10: Fear not [there is nothing to fear], for I am with you; do not look around you in terror and be dismayed, for I am your God. I will strengthen and harden you to difficulties, yes, I will help you; yes, I will hold you up and retain you with My [victorious] right hand of rightness and justice.  [Isaiah 41:10 Amplified Bible] That is why even though we encounter virtually the same struggles, the same pains, the same hardships as other people, Church Of Christ members rely, depend, and in fact, we can say lean on and fully believe in God’s promises to us, His people. This is what makes us so resilient, so that even if we may feel down in the dumps, when a serious problem comes upon us, we’re able to get back up on our feet.  And no surprise because this was also what befell the apostles in their time. As we can read in II Corinthians 4:8-9:  We are pressed on every side by troubles, but not crushed and broken. We are perplexed because we don’t know why things happen as they do, but we don’t give up and quit. We are hunted down, but God never abandons us. We get knocked down, but we get up again and keep going.  [II Corinthians 4:8-9 Living Bible] The apostles were not spared from experiencing severe troubles in life as we can glean from this citation. But again, because they placed their hope and their trust in God, every time they were knocked down, they were able to get up again. Because God will never abandon His loyal and faithful servants. Because of this, God’s many acts of kindness, they should be reflected upon from time to time by His people. Martin: That’s amazing that there are so many verses that point to that process of reflection and introspection and how that all weaves into our faith. What would you say, Brother Donald, is the purpose for self-reflection? And what does it ultimately mean for members of the Church Of Christ? Bro. Donald: You know, Brother Martin, self-reflection gives us the precious opportunity to consider the condition of our life. To meditate on perhaps the mistakes that we have made when it comes to our judgment calls, and how we can improve for the future. And being members of the Church, there’s an added layer of contemplation, and that is to consider the condition of our relationship with God, and how we have reacted when immense problems have risen up in our life. That is why the Bible recommends the following:  When life is heavy and hard to take, go off by yourself. Enter the silence. Bow in prayer. Don’t ask questions: Wait for hope to appear. Don’t run from trouble. Take it full-face. The “worst” is never the worst. Why? Because the Master won’t ever walk out and fail to return. If he works severely, he also works tenderly. His stockpiles of loyal love are immense. He takes no pleasure in making life hard, in throwing roadblocks in the way: … GOD proves to be good to the man who passionately waits, to the woman who diligently seeks. It’s a good thing to quietly hope, quietly hope for help from GOD.  [Lamentations 3:28-33, 25-26 The Message] We know that all people are bound to experience troubles in life. In fact, we can read that in Job 5:7. Those whom God recognizes however as His people, they have a distinct advantage when it comes to overcoming the troubles and tribulations of life. And even though sometimes we may feel that life is indeed heavy and hard to take, we should never be discouraged nor lose hope. What we should do is, as the Bible teaches, bow in prayer, and wait for hope to appear. The Bible assures us that it’s a good thing to hope for help from God, and that we’ll not be disappointed because God proves to be good to His people who wait patiently for Him. Especially at these times, Brother Martin, as you know, where because of this pandemic, the life of virtually all people around the world has been affected adversely. And there is indeed an increase of worry, anxiety and other mental problems.  However, when it comes to again, those whom the Lord our God recognizes as His people, He has promised to help them. So it is incumbent upon the people of God to place their hope and trust in Him. And one way we can do this is to believe in the power of prayer, communicating with our Father in heaven, meditating upon our life and our situation, taking those periods of self-reflection, in order for us to avail of God’s promises for us to continue to live a safe and productive life and most especially when it comes to remaining in close relationship with our Almighty God. Martin: Thank you so much, Brother Donald, those verses were so very inspirational and the way that you were able to weave them into not only past struggles that maybe some of us have gone through, but the current struggles that are happening right now. We want to thank you so much, Brother Donald, for being on our show again today. Bro. Donald: Oh, thank you so much for having me, Brother Martin. Martin: Absolutely. We always look forward to having you on the show. And for our listeners, please continue to follow our hashtag on Instagram, #heartandsoulconversations to stay up to date with all things Heart & Soul. That’s it from us today. Hope we were able to help, hope you were able to connect and hope you’ll join us next time ready to listen with all your heart and soul. Take a few moments to reflect and be thankful because you’re not in this alone. Take care.

Say Something Nice [Lead In] Martin Zerrudo: When was the last time someone said something nice to you? When was the last time you said something nice to someone else? What did they say? How did it make you feel? Is it something that happens often? Or maybe not often enough? Can a few simple words of kindness actually change people’s lives?  Let’s have a Heart & Soul conversation.  [Show open] [Heart & Soul Listeners] Not to be cheesy, but thanks for being the best brother that I could ask for. Love you mom and dad! My boy best friend. I love you, dude. I’m grateful for you. Even though I don’t show it. Thank you for introducing me to my wife, and being my oldest friend. [Music Transition] Martin: Hey, everyone, hope you’re all doing well and are safe and healthy at home. We’re going to start off with a recent study that shows that if you say something nice to someone, you can instantaneously improve their way of life.  Here’s what the National Institute of Physiological Sciences in Japan has to say:  “Research shows receiving a compliment can enhance performance, social interaction, positivity in relationships, and increase general happiness. Not bad for something that’s completely free and takes literally seconds to do. Now with all those benefits and with such little effort involved, you would think complimenting someone or having a good thing to say about someone should happen a little bit more often” But does it? Well. Here’s an article from the Huffington Post with their take on it: “With all the angst and frustration, a kind word could be the difference between holding on and giving up. Yet, society glamorizes ‘Mean Girls’ and bullying culture. From celebrities to athletes to our school children, we blame the victims of bullying for not standing up. And we incentivize bullies for showing strength. We shamed those that have less or cannot keep up with the Joneses.”  And if you couple that with a pandemic, where studies show 1 in 3 people right now are suffering from depression or anxiety as a direct result of COVID-19, it’s a pretty bleak world out there, which is why we wanted to highlight a social media post we created back in January of 2020, right before this all started. We asked you, our audience, to show a little bit of love. To surprise someone by saying something nice about them and tagging them in the comments. We thought the power of a kind word was something they could really use because according to becomingminimalist.com:  “a kind word can speak power to someone’s life. It can inspire, it can motivate, and it can provide strength to someone who can’t find it within themselves.” And that’s exactly what you all did. From random nice things to meaningful words from the heart. Here’s what you had to say. [Heart & Soul Listeners] Thank you for always listening to me when I need someone to vent to. I really admire everything you do for everyone around you. But especially our District. Whenever I start getting lazy, you really are my inspiration to be better. Thanks for being my older sister and my role model. Even when I get on your last nerve, you still tolerate me. So that’s nice. You were the one who taught me how to be active and strong through example, and you’re the one whom I know I can confide in when I’m lost. Because I’m always lost. Sorry about that. My best friend, you stayed with me during my ups and downs, and you’re truly an amazing friend to talk to. You were always there when I had no one to talk to until this day. I pray that we get to see each other someday and talk about the craziest things from the distance between California and Guam. Thank you for everything, Bestie. Love you. I respect you so much for being an organist. I know it’s not easy, squeezing in personal organ practice time with your busy schedule. Seeing you practice super early in the morning and late night. Even if you only get a few hours of sleep is a dedication I very much respect. You inspire me to want to do the same. The love you feel when you play is evident. And I hope to feel that too someday. You always wowed me with your growth as a woman. Your heart is pure and you have the spirit of a warrior. I’m proud to be your sister. Be the wise and kind woman that you ought to be because that will help you withstand every trial that you will face and battles that you have to face alone. But keep in mind, I’m always cheering for you.  Martin: A kind word can even be used to express and even share our faith. [Heart & Soul Listeners] Your ever growing faith gives me strength, especially now that I’m feeling weaker. You rekindle the fire in me to keep going. I appreciate your kindness, care and reminders to me. And I pray that God blesses you in every way for a bright future that allows you to serve Him without hindrances. Martin: Joining us now is Bro. Donald Pinnock, a minister of the gospel in the Church Of Christ. Hello, Bro. Donald. Bro. Donald: Hello, Bro. Martin, and thank you for the invitation. Martin: Thank you so much for joining us, Bro. Donald, I want to start off by saying something nice about you. Thank you for always being humble yet strong. I remember as a young teen, you were our minister in the local congregation of Scarborough, and you walked with such poise and grace, but you never drew attention to yourself. And I thought, wow, he’s so, he’s so humble. But when it came to preaching and being a good leader to us spiritually, it was always so very inspiring and strong. And so I just wanted to say thank you for always being so humble, yet strong, as a spiritual leader in the Church Of Christ. Bro. Donald: Well, thank you for saying that Bro. Martin. I don’t really have a response to that. I can’t say, you know, perhaps you were delusional when you’re younger. But yet, in fact, since this episode is about kind words, well, you started it off on the right track by saying what you just said. In turn, what can I say? I am very, very happy to know you, somebody who’s extremely talented, and thinks outside the box, I don’t know if you’ve ever thought inside the box.  Martin: Uh, no.  Bro. Donald: Yes, really, really glad to know you, as someone who I can have very, very entertaining conversations with, and at the same time learn from because age is not proof that one is wise. One can always learn from others. As I say, nobody knows everything. But everybody knows something. So if you’re ready to listen, you can learn from another and I’m very glad to learn from you. Martin: Thank you so much, Bro. Donald. Now speaking of saying something nice. Has anyone said something to you that really positively affected your way of life? Bro. Donald: Definitely. An incident comes to mind. And this happened many, many years in fact, decades ago, when I was going through a very, very rough patch in life. In fact, my life in ways was going in the wrong direction. And that’s when a friend of a friend noticed this. Noticed that I was also feeling down in the doldrums. And she took the time to talk to me. And in fact, talking to her turned out to be one of the most pivotal conversations I’ve ever had in my entire life. It virtually lit a fire within me and changed the direction of the course of my life.  Just the positivity, the encouragement, and “you can do it” comments. It boosted me so much that when it comes to the effects of those kind but inspiring words that were spoken with so much love and also sincerity, well, the effects of those words, they continue to reverberate even until my present day. Martin: And why are words so powerful in affecting people? Bro. Donald: You know, the proper words at the right time can invoke an emotional response that is for the betterment of the listener. But it’s not just the words per se, but also the feeling, the sentiment, the emotion behind those words. In fact, the Bible teaches this in Ephesians 4:29: Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen.  [Ephesians 4:29 New International Version] You mentioned earlier, Bro. Martin, that so many people are lacking that human touch, not just physically but also emotionally. Since especially now they’re being deprived of social interaction due to the lockdown, stay-at-home protocols being implemented by government bodies all around the world. Virtual or digital interaction, it can satisfy a segment or portion of that emotional need, but never ever to the level of when you’re actually in the same physical space with another. But even so, sincere words whether spoken face to face with an individual or online using social media platforms, those sincere words are at a premium at this time, so many people need to feel loved. And this is why the Church Of Christ members all throughout the world, they’re reaching out not only to their fellow brethren but to everyone around them. Martin: Now, what words should we turn to when we feel this way? You know, there’s that question as well of, of connection and authenticity. You may see it and you may hear it on social media online. But what if you don’t know those people? What if you don’t believe what they’re saying? What if it’s hard for you to take the sincerity from it? Where should we turn to in those times of trial? Bro. Donald: Well, again, those sincere and affectionate words, they are important to combat feelings of loneliness, and if one is getting down or desperate. However, when one is really going through severe trials in life, there are no better words than those written in the Bible. And a very good example of this is mentioned by the Lord Jesus Christ recorded here in John 16:33:  I have told you these things, so that in Me you may have [perfect] peace and confidence. In the world you have tribulation and trials and distress and frustration; but be of good cheer [take courage; be confident, certain, undaunted]! For I have overcome the world. [I have deprived it of power to harm you and have conquered it for you.] [John 16:33 Amplified Bible] This is what the members of the Church Of Christ have been reminded of, that through our Lord Jesus Christ, they may have peace and confidence in the midst of those fiery difficulties, of those trials, of those frustrations. That is a really heartwarming promise, considering the world which we are now living in. Martin: And what words would you have for our audience, Bro. Donald? You know, we have listeners all over the world who could use a little bit of inspiration, a little bit of sincere, authentic kindness. What would you say to them? Bro. Donald: Well, regardless of who you are, or where you may be living, whether you’re married, or you’re living alone, be you young or old, we only have the sincerest of words and thoughts for all of you. We pray that you’re going to be kept safe from the ravages of this pandemic, that you are going to remain confident, positively minded, you’re going to remain jovial in the midst of all of this chaos. So, our dear listeners, keep on smiling, because someone does love you. The Church Of Christ members love one another, and they also love their neighbors. The very reason why, in expression of our love, we continue to extend that invitation for all of you to know why we draw strength and encouragement from the words of God that we believe in and live by. So do not despair, dear friends, even though yes, since the beginning of 2020 until now, life has been extremely difficult, extremely challenging. And even though we hear of vaccines being dispersed, at the same time, when it comes to a return to some level of normalcy that we enjoyed before the outbreak of this pandemic, it could still be a long way off.  But let’s be thankful for what we have, and not be so down when it comes to what we don’t have. Find time to smile, find time for yourself, and find time for others. That as we receive kind words, then in turn, we can also express kind words to those around us. And virtually together we can get through this safely. And most especially for us, members of the Church Of Christ, we can continue to give praise to our Creator. Martin: I want to thank you so much for joining us, Bro. Donald. And again to our listeners, I just want to echo what Bro. Donald said, you know, stay hopeful. We’re in this together. Though we may be physically distant, we remain spiritually united. And for those who are not members of the Church Of Christ, who may be listening and this podcast was shared with you, the most effective and sincere and most powerful way we could express our words to be of help to you positively is to just learn more about the Church Of Christ. And like Bro. Donald said, we guarantee it is something that will change your life. And so we want to thank you all for joining us.  Please continue to follow us on our hashtag on Instagram, #heartandsoulconversations to stay up to date with all things Heart & Soul. That’s it from us today. We hope we were able to help, we hope we were able to connect and we hope you’ll join us next time ready to listen with all of your heart and soul. Oh, and say something nice to someone today. They just might need it. Take care.