This week second-timer Jon Hawes is back for another trip to the microphone to talk about his interesting take on risk, response, and the security world we live and breathe. With interesting anecdotes and a firm grasp on real-world risk discussions, Jon and Raf have a pretty enlightening chat you will benefit from.

Highlights from this week's show include...

• Jon discusses the concept of a "counterfactual"
• Jon discusses feedback loops in how incidents are handled
• Jon and Raf talk through how security professionals discuss 'risk' and what we can do to better the conversation

Guest:

• Jon Hawes - https://www.linkedin.com/in/jonhawes/ 

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