February 4, 2020
Wildly divergent. Novel and exciting. Or just plain crazy.
January 24, 2020
In Xanadu did Kubla KhanA stately pleasure-dome decree:Where Alph, the sacred river, ranThrough caverns measureless to manDown to a sunless sea.
January 21, 2020
You know what it is!
December 17, 2019
Two eps of That Way? Christmas miracle. This one's a doozie so we broke it in two!
December 10, 2019
This episode got cut short, we'll have part two later in the week. In the mean time we discuss not getting into Sundance, festivals in general, and the unfairness of numbers.
December 3, 2019
Back from a long sabbatical and ready to rock. Zay and Jon talk Rollers, life, and the future of the podcast.
September 5, 2019
It's just Uncle Zay in the studio today because Uncle Jonny Bear is welcoming a new person into the world.
August 28, 2019
Floating Islands on Lake Tidicaca /
August 13, 2019
Zay breaks out a new summer cut! You can't see it, but you can hear us talk about it and some other stuff!
August 6, 2019
Zay and Jon go deep on current events; mass shootings, unrest, and upheaval. But there is light at the end of the tunnel and art to make.
July 30, 2019
Zay's on sabbatical but we still get a Rollers update, discuss Tarantino's new movie, and much much more.
July 26, 2019
The great and wonderful Tommy Bertelsen is back for part 2. We cover his life, career, and phenomenal upcoming narrative podcast: How Did I Get Here.Check out Tommy and show him some love:
July 23, 2019
Sometimes you sit down with a real one. Tommy B tees it up and whacks-a-mole on this episode. He's a director. He was a child actor. He's making a podcast. He's a great guy. Find and support Tommy here:
July 9, 2019
A visit from Capn' Dingus to beautiful Los Angeles prompts a new season and some earth shaking. Jon and Zay recount their time together and hopes for the future.
July 3, 2019
We begin with ancient structures and finish with Rollers and self-help. `
June 26, 2019
The boys are back at it. Barely any Rollers talk, but plenty o' banter. We talk baseball, cooking, movies, and more!
June 19, 2019
The boys take a break from Rollers to talk Network, conspiracies, corporate greed, societal ills, and much much more.
June 12, 2019
Zay and Jon discuss the latest screening of Rollers (Zay's first feature film). We discuss handling criticism, the current state of the film, and how to finish with gold. The race is not won by the swift but to the one who endures till the end.Follow @RollersMovie on Instagram or go to for a look at the poster!
June 5, 2019
The boys hit a milestone and celebrate with some wild offers, (review the podcast and win a trip to LA for the premier of Rollers), some self-reflection, and some future plans. Wouldn't be an anniversary episode sans cooking with Jon and Zay and some other shenanigans to boot. "Never thought we'd make it past 4".
May 29, 2019
Sick and worn out, Zay and Jon recap the past week in Rollers' post production.
May 22, 2019
A message to Zay. A revelation. A new cut. Jon is exposed as a Doubting Thomas. Is Rollers saved? Maybe; but apotheosis is weeks if not months away.
May 14, 2019
Zay and Jon discuss Rollers screening 3. Strength through adversity, ying and yang, chaos and order. Zay closes his eyes and looses his arrows.
May 7, 2019
Zay completes and screens a second cut of Rollers, his first feature film. We discuss the results of said screening and much
April 30, 2019
Zay gives us the low down on the podcast history and our numbers; we attempt to reduce those numbers by discussing them. Later we dive into film festivals, Dunbar's Number, Tristan da Cunha, depression, and much much more.
April 24, 2019
Zay showed a rough cut of Rollers, his first feature film, and revelations abound! And of course we discuss Easter, controversial authors, Moloch, Segway conspiracies and so much more.
April 16, 2019
Back in the saddle. We return from a hiatus to yak and talk Rollers. Updates and poems abound!
March 22, 2019
The boys review the project thus far, the state of the world, and things to come! Rollers persists.
March 13, 2019
We return for part two with Henry to discuss the Nephilim, the Garden of Eden, Marilyn Robinson, the pyramids and the widely discredited Serpent Seed Theory--but not Rollers. Also, Jon discovers vaporwave and crams his Billy Graham collage down our throats.
March 7, 2019
The boys hit a milestone and celebrate by discussing many topics out of their depth. Physics, Nephilim, Pyramids, Pi, the secret of life... mercifully a guest arrives at the end to bring us back to reality... or hurtle us deeper into space. Part 1/2.
March 2, 2019
Zay regales us with tales of Rollers' final production day with--of course--several tangents and many teases.
February 28, 2019
ALT EPISODE DESCRIPTIONS:Rollers is in the can and the boys rehash the creation of Zay's first feature flim. Zay gets a software upgrade and some (one) sound effect(s).Rollers is wrapped up like a little burrito. But will the first bite be a perfect blend of ingredients or a giant blob of lukewarm sour cream?
February 20, 2019
Rollers enters the final week of shooting and Zay dishes the goods through a tin can. Tensions run high but lessons are learned as movie magic is made.
February 5, 2019
Rollers is being put to (digital) film and the boys yak about Uncle Zay's successes and setbacks on set thus far. Turns out: making your first Indie is challenging and cathartic; plus some tangents.
January 23, 2019
We're one week out from production.
January 9, 2019
January 2, 2019
Rollers is rolling into high gear, but Zay is feeling at least reasonably peaceful about the whole thing. Jon's been binging "The Haunting of Hill House" and he's scared shitless.
December 25, 2018
We hope you're having fun with your families these holidays. But if you need to get away from the politics and presents, throw this episode on the old turntable and escape into the wild and meandering minds of Uncle Zay and Jonny Bear.
December 21, 2018
We've got legendary writer/director David Ferino in the bear den this week to recap Jon's LA trip among other things.
December 18, 2018
YOU LOOKIN’ AT ME? // of drive through the hills // of san marino drive // club --Dave Ferino Shorts --Trailer for EMPTIED // yours //
December 11, 2018
Coming soon. SORRY!!! We're crazy busy and we know you don't really read them anyway.
December 7, 2018
Jon forces Zay to answer the all-important question... Is he a good director? Well, at the end of the day it doesn't matter because eventually we'll all be under a glacier.
December 4, 2018
Corn Pone // Syndrome // Quinn Medicine Woman //  (hahaha)Cusco Walls // Making // Gets Paid to Win // GAGA // and Personal Links:A Mama Bear Studios Production // Mama Bear Studios’ WebsiteProduced and edited by: Isaiah SmallmanExecutive Producer: Jon SchimpfOpening music: "The Get Down," Produced by Summer DregsCover Art by: Nate GiordanoShow Website | ThatWay.fmShow Twitter | @ThatWayPodJon TwitterIsaiah InstagramIsaiah IMDBIsaiah’s Twitter (which he never uses)
November 16, 2018
Sermon Series on the book of Ecclesiastes by Rankin Wilbourne (Pacific Crossroads Church)Momentum Mori- Prince of Orange Pyramids in Mexico/ Zay’s tattooNight Swim comes to lifeJames Wan backs Night SwimAnother short accepted by Amblin Entertainment- Bryce is writing for StevieBryce's Script “The White Room”- The Blood list “Florida Man”Mark Johnson Milton Berle pranks ZayCredits and Personal Links:A Mama Bear Studios Production // Mama Bear Studios’ WebsiteProduced and edited by: Isaiah SmallmanExecutive Producer: Jon SchimpfOpening music: "The Get Down," Produced by Summer DregsOutro music: My Way By Frank SinatraCover Art by: Nate GiordanoShow Website | ThatWay.fmShow Twitter | @ThatWayPodJon TwitterIsaiah InstagramIsaiah IMDBIsaiah’s Twitter (which he never uses)
November 13, 2018
Breaking Bad // Mark Johnson (Producer)Wise Blood (By Flannery O’Connor)Do you have to live in LA to make it in Hollywood?Do drug dealers use gold? // Apparently “Gold is the new Cocaine for money launderers”Tommy BertelsenTommy is a Badass director and we’re producing a new podcast about his experience directing a new movie called “Welcome to Mercy.”Here’s his IMDBBryce McGuire Short Films!The Whistler // on VimeoJesus Fish // on VimeoNight Swim // on VimeoGersh AgencyHarlan Coben // His websiteFace Off (on the SyFy Channel)Credits and Personal Links:A Mama Bear Studios Production // Mama Bear Studios’ WebsiteProduced and edited by: Isaiah SmallmanExecutive Producer: Jon SchimpfOpening music: "The Get Down," Produced by Summer DregsOutro music: Composed and Recorded by Tom Paulus and Max BelzCover Art by: Nate GiordanoShow Website | ThatWay.fmShow Twitter | @ThatWayPodJon TwitterIsaiah InstagramIsaiah IMDBIsaiah’s Twitter (which he never uses)Isaiah LinkedIn
November 9, 2018
Halloween RecapHalloween the movieJohn’s Halloween joke: “Why can't ghosts have kids? Cuz they have hollo-weenies”.John Carpenter’s- HalloweenZAY wants to make a scary movieThe ExorcistQuentin Tarantino’s interview for Kill Bill Psychopath testSAW is the shitty version of SE7EN John peels back the layers of his houses’ historyHorror shorts movie contests on youtube)Zay’s movie ideas:Idea 1: Stoner GhostIdea 2: What about Bob- The Serial KillerZodiac- The MovieEnneagram test- Zay is a 3Summary: Rollers is dead, Stoner Ghost is on!The Night StalkerWorking with Jigsaw
November 6, 2018
Jurassic Park- Michael Crichton - NEXT (future technology), Timeline (middle ages)Jeff Goldblum - “that’s one big pile of shit”Honey I shrunk the kids- Rick Moranis (life now)Ozarks The sure thing- Rob ReinerMulholland DriveHocus pocusPsalty the songbook The donut manCarmen confronts a witchMr. Robot guy plays in freddie mercury new movieDid Jimmy Page kill John Bonham with witchcraft? Short Answer: Maybe.The song remains the same - madison square garden Hammer of the godsSuspension of disbelief theory “Once” the movieSpinal tap- Big Bottom:James brown is THEE STANKYThe DoorsAmerican prayer John Prine- I have met my love today Radio lab- sexual consent Prairie home companion- Garrison KeillorJohns top 3 soundtracks: pulp fiction, jungle boogie, dazed and confusedZay’s top soundtracks: Royal Tenenbaums, Goodfellas, anything Martin ScorseseWhitey bulger the gangster - The Departed Jeff Sessions- favored the kkk until he found out the smoked dope Back to Whitey- got wrecked in prisonClosing thought: SNL Casey Affleck - dunkin doughnuts skitBonus episode on Friday 11/9
October 30, 2018
Time Warner RevenueSaudi Oil Mega-Company -- Saudi AramcoA list of the largest companies in the worldHalloween (Dir. David Gordon Green) // TrailerThe Visit (Dir. M Night Shyamalan) // TrailerSplit (Dir. M Night Shyamalan) // TrailerGlass (Dir. M Night Shyamalan) // TrailerMoonlight (Dir. Barry Jenkins) // TrailerHalloween (Dir. John Carpenter) // TrailerDisney's Legend of Sleepy Hollow // The Whole MovieThe movie about the west starring Nicky Kidman and Tommy Cruise is called "Far and Away""Sooners" vs. "Boomers" // Wiki (THANK YOU WIKIPEDIA. We will donate one day...)An auction for remote land // Website
October 23, 2018
Flashback to our first episode!Podcasters Union // InfoFather John Misty // WebsiteAstroworld: Song Sicko ModeElliott Smith // Needle in the HayA woman crying after Trump was elected // It's a hilarious videoChinese Social Credit Score // Crazzzzy // An alternative viewWhat is a Steadicam?Michel Gondry // A video breaking down his aestheticA great video breaking down "The Spielberg Oner"Breakdancing:The Breakdancing move known as "The Turtle."Breakdancing failsA famous Steadicam shot from "The Shining" // This is an example of it being amazingly useful!!!Augmented Reality Short FilmsThe Famous Tracking Shot from "Goodfellas""Ghost in the Shell" the original trailer"Akira" // The Trailer"My Neighbor Totoro" // Trailer"Ratatouille" // The Cooking SceneCRISPR // Website"Easy Rider" // The Acid Scene"Rear Window" // A Feminist CritiqueBox Office Numbers by the year // Box Office MojoCredits and Personal Links:A Mama Bear Studios Production // Mama Bear Studios’ WebsiteProduced and edited by: Isaiah SmallmanExecutive Producer: Jon SchimpfOpening music: "The Get Down," Produced by Summer DregsOutro music: My Way By Frank SinatraCover Art by: Nate GiordanoShow Website | ThatWay.fmShow Twitter | @ThatWayPodJon TwitterIsaiah InstagramIsaiah IMDBIsaiah’s Twitter (which he never uses)
October 19, 2018
A Star Is Born (Dir. Bradley Cooper) // TrailerRoma (Dir. Alfonso Cuarón) // TrailerRon Gallo // The song is called "Put The Kids to Bed" // Music video"When we we’re young we said one day // Honey you and I, we’re gonna share a grave // I didn’t know it’d come so soon // The feeling in my belly of living with but not loving you // It keeps me longer at the corner store"Credits and Personal Links:A Mama Bear Studios Production // Mama Bear Studios’ WebsiteProduced and edited by: Isaiah SmallmanExecutive Producer: Jon SchimpfOpening music: "The Get Down," Produced by Summer DregsOutro music: My Way By Frank SinatraCover Art by: Nate GiordanoShow Website | ThatWay.fmShow Twitter | @ThatWayPodJon TwitterIsaiah InstagramIsaiah IMDBIsaiah’s Twitter (which he never uses)
October 16, 2018
The Lottery // Written by Shirley Jackson**DISCLAIMER: The Lottery will in no way increase your chances of winning the lottery, nor will it educate about how to do so. According to Wikipedia The Lottery is a short story written by Shirley Jackson first published in the June 26, 1948 issue of The New Yorker. The story describes a fictional small town which observes an annual ritual known as "the lottery", which results in the killing of one individual in the town. "The Lottery" has been described as "one of the most famous short stories in the history of American literature" It initially received a negative response, which surprised both Jackson and The New Yorker. Readers cancelled subscriptions and sent hate mail throughout the summer.Credits and Personal Links:A Mama Bear Studios Production // Mama Bear Studios’ WebsiteProduced and edited by: Isaiah SmallmanExecutive Producer: Jon SchimpfOpening music: "The Get Down," Produced by Summer DregsOutro music: Composed and Recorded by Tom Paulus and Max BelzCover Art by: Nate GiordanoShow Website | ThatWay.fmShow Twitter | @ThatWayPodJon TwitterIsaiah InstagramIsaiah IMDBIsaiah’s Twitter (which he never uses)
October 12, 2018
Astro the RapperBird scooters / bird scooter carnage LA Times: "Fed-up locals are setting electric scooters on fire and burying them at sea""People Are Destroying E-Scooters and Reveling in the Carnage"Soho House in West Hollywood // of Segway dies // Here's the story11:00 - Here's where the intro ends and the REAL debate begins....“What if he shot you in the face?” // From Dumb and DumberCredits and Personal Links:A Mama Bear Studios Production // Mama Bear Studios’ WebsiteProduced and edited by: Isaiah SmallmanExecutive Producer: Jon SchimpfOpening music: "The Get Down," Produced by Summer DregsOutro music: Composed and Recorded by Tom Paulus and Max BelzCover Art by: Nate GiordanoShow Website | ThatWay.fmShow Twitter | @ThatWayPodJon TwitterIsaiah InstagramIsaiah IMDBIsaiah’s Twitter (which he never uses)Isaiah LinkedIn
October 5, 2018
Save the Cat (By Blake Snyder) // On AmazonThe "Beat Sheet," a now classic writing tool for analyzing a script // Here's one for STAR WARSJoseph Campbell links //A cool video explaining his stuff (“The hero’s journey”)Here's his famous bookLethal Weapon // "I'm too old for this shit" // "Do Ya Really Wanna Jump? Let's Do It"Youʼve Got Mail Dumb And Dumber // "So youʼre sayin' Thereʼs a Chance"Princess Bride // "Have fun storming the castle"Adaptation // Watch the TrailerRobert McKee Seminar SceneRobert McKee talking about the dangers of formulaic screenwritingCharlie Kauffman // Long ass (but worth a watch) Screenwriting Master ClassWatchmen // Watch the TrailerWhat to Know for your FIRST TIME HAVING SEXChildren of Men // Watch the trailerAMP studios // Check out the website2001: A Space Odyssey // A great behind the scenes video Mulholland Drive // Watch the trailer Credits and Personal Links:A Mama Bear Studios Production // Mama Bear Studios’ WebsiteProduced and edited by: Isaiah SmallmanExecutive Producer: Jon SchimpfOpening music: "The Get Down," Produced by Summer DregsOutro music: Composed and Recorded by Tom Paulus and Max BelzCover Art by: Nate GiordanoShow Website | ThatWay.fmShow Twitter | @ThatWayPodJon TwitterIsaiah InstagramIsaiah IMDBIsaiah’s Twitter (which he never uses)Isaiah LinkedIn
October 2, 2018
A Very Helpful Video About Mormon Space PlanetsFortnight // Video of people playingDo the Right Thing // Link to the script bookThe actual definition of a slug lineA slug line, Also called a master scene heading, occurs at the start of every scene and typically contains three pieces of information: whether the scene is set inside (interior/INT.) or outside (exterior/EXT.), the specific location, and the time of day. Each slug line begins a new scene.Reservoir Dogs // Watch the TrailerSave the Cat (By Blake Snyder) // On AmazonThe "Beat Sheet," a now classic writing tool for analyzing a script // Here's one for STAR WARSJoseph Campbell links //A cool video explaining his stuff (“The hero’s journey”)Here's his famous bookLethal Weapon // "I'm too old for this shit" // "Do Ya Really Wanna Jump? Let's Do It"Youʼve Got Mail // The Coffee Shop SceneDumb And Dumber // "So youʼre sayin' Thereʼs a Chance"Princess Bride // "Have fun storming the castle"Adaptation //Watch the TrailerRobert McKee Seminar SceneRobert McKee talking about the dangers of formulaic screenwritingCharlie Kauffman // Long ass (but worth a watch) Screenwriting Master ClassWatchmen // Watch the TrailerWhat to Know for your FIRST TIME HAVING SEXChildren of Men // Watch the trailerAMP studios // Check out the website2001: A Space Odyssey // A great behind the scenes videoMulholland Drive // Watch the trailer
September 25, 2018
Catch up on Rollers // Zay is setting some dates on the record: FEBRUARY 4, 2019Editing Robots // Apparently they exist in some form… Too bad they suck.A terrible overview of lensesMainly the difference between anamorphic and spherical lenses.Thank you @RedCamera for the helpful informationHow “super” film works // Short version is that they move the soundtrack and use more of the film stock for the image. Here’s the longer version.Photo Emulsion paint!!!! //This might be the coolest thing everHow to print photos onto objects“Momento Mori” / “Remember Death.”The Belly of the Beast // This is the history of the “Brazen Bull.”The Colosseum in Rome // It was actually built between 70 and 80 AD.Going back in time with iPhones! // Flappy Bird and the Mario iPhone GameJon says if he could find some metal he could charge up in iPhone in 70 AD.Here’s a how-to video…for charging a phone without electricity.New Movie Idea // Guy goes back in time, brings a disease, wipes out Rome at its peak."Preppers" // Here are the kind you should apparently avoidA Conversation about Hiroshima and Nuclear BombsThis man survived Hiroshima and Nagasaki // Tsutomu YamaguchiHiroshima, by John Hersey - A first hand account of the blasts thereThe Hiroshima Peace Museum that Jon visitedThe Tzar Bomba (the largest explosion ever created). The bomb dropped over Hiroshima was yielded a blast of about 15 kilotons. The Tzar Bomb yielded a blast that was 500,000 kilotons, about 33 times larger.32:00 // MAIL BAGTed Turner is building Westworld! // Check out his ranches… It’s insane.Dan Hekman grew up by a Bison FarmEverglades National Park // The most beautiful and terrifying place ever?Adaptation // A film written by Charlie Kaufman and directed by Spike Jonze // Watch the trailerJon and Zay Give some Podcast RecommendationsSerial Season 3 // Here’s the websiteS-Town // One of the finest podcasts ever createdSerial Season 1 // It took place near Zay’s House in BaltimoreThe Polybius Conspiracy (2017) // From RadiotopiaDonkey Kong // The video of the world recordFilmspotting // Easily one of the best podcasts on film. Period. Find them at filmspotting.netScuffed // A great soccer podcast you should check it out hereExistential question check in // Do you think you did, or are doing, your life “right?” Don’t forget to write in! And thanks to Archie for giving us a great honest answer. Hit us at info@mamabearstudios.com54:00 // The inaugural episode of “Libertarian Ranting with Jon and Zay.”The Greatest Sign Flipper Ever // How does he do it? Lots of wasted time… Rosemary’s Baby //The Novel (1967) - By Ira LevinRoman Polanski // Sharon Tate // The Manson Murders (1969)Gimme Shelter (1970) // The documentary chronicles The famous concert at Altamont where the Hell’s Angels stabbed and killed a young black man.Peter Biskind // Basically the official chronicler of HollywoodEasy Riders, Raging Bulls: How the Sex-Drugs-and-Rock 'N' Roll Generation Saved Hollywood (1999) // This book is amazing. READ IT.Down and Dirty Pictures: Miramax, Sundance, and the Rise of Independent Film (2005) // This book is also incredible. If you’re interested in working in film, read them BOTH.Credits and Personal Links:A Mama Bear Studios Production // Mama Bear Studios’ WebsiteProduced and edited by: Isaiah SmallmanExecutive Producer: Jon SchimpfOpening music: "The Get Down," Produced by Summer DregsOutro music: Composed and Recorded by Tom Paulus and Max BelzCover Art by: Nate GiordanoShow Website | ThatWay.fmShow Twitter | @ThatWayPodJon TwitterIsaiah InstagramIsaiah IMDBIsaiah’s Twitter (which he never uses)Isaiah LinkedIn
September 18, 2018
Gold Star // One of Zay’s favorite songs called “Crooked Teeth.”Zay might be losing it // Here's a picture of the peak behind the Hollywood sign where Zay shouted "I'm gonna make a movie" and then pissed on LA.Kids See Ghosts // Feel the LoveHere’s a video of Kanye singing “Poopity Scoop” for 9 HoursLil Pump & Kanye (music video)The guy who ran around naked got famous for the “KONY 2012” situation // Here’s a TMZ video of him running around nakedA Star Is Born // Starring Bradley “Smolder” Cooper and Lady “Damn, That Girl can sing” GagaWatch the TrailerWikipedia covers some of the history of the movie.The Silver Linings Playbook // (One of) the Bradley Cooper movies with Jennifer Lawrence is // Watch the TrailerCrazy Rich Asians // Watch the TrailerA video crash course on how Hollywood worked in its Golden Age!Here’s a link to some of the biggest spec script sales of all timeThe Greatest Showman // Watch the trailerTed Bundy // WikipediaBTK Omaha Serieal killer // WikipediaRollers Playlist // SpotifyThe fake weatherman // During Hurricane FlorenceCredits and Personal Links:A Mama Bear Studios Production // Mama Bear Studios’ WebsiteProduced and edited by: Isaiah SmallmanExecutive Producer: Jon SchimpfOpening music: "The Get Down," Produced by Summer DregsOutro music: Composed and Recorded by Tom Paulus and Max BelzCover Art by: Nate GiordanoShow Website | ThatWay.fmShow Twitter | @ThatWayPodJon TwitterIsaiah InstagramIsaiah IMDBIsaiah’s Twitter (which he never uses)Isaiah LinkedIn
September 14, 2018
Opie and Anthony // Famous shock jocks from 1995 - 2014Vanilla Sky (2001) // Dir. Cameron Crowe // Watch some behind the scenes //Sid The Cat // An awesome LA Based Concert PromoterThe American Legion // WebsiteFreemasons and their Temple LodgesWe're investing all profits into the Soup Nazi's company: SOUPQPenny Stocks // OTC marketsState Tax Credits // An overviewRight to Work // Overview"Right-to-work laws" are statutes in 27 U.S. states that prohibit union security agreements between companies and workers' unions. Under these laws, employees in unionized workplaces are banned from negotiating contracts which require all members who benefit from the union contract to contribute to the costs of union representation. - WikipediaTed Turner //Turner broadcastingTed’s statehouseTed’s giant bison farm // Maybe Ted Turner is building "Westworld"Ted Turner and Rupert Murdoch yacht collisionStephen Baldwin // WikipediaBob Corker // WikipediaGiant Data Center for the NSACredits and Personal Links:A Mama Bear Studios Production // Mama Bear Studios’ WebsiteProduced and edited by: Isaiah SmallmanExecutive Producer: Jon SchimpfOpening music: "The Get Down," Produced by Summer DregsOutro music: Composed and Recorded by Tom Paulus and Max BelzCover Art by: Nate GiordanoShow Website | ThatWay.fmShow Twitter | @ThatWayPodJon TwitterIsaiah InstagramIsaiah IMDBIsaiah’s Twitter (which he never uses)Isaiah LinkedIn
September 11, 2018
Mc Hammer is selling gold... with a gold hammer. Titanium rings CAN be dangerous // Most jewelers and hospitals apparently don't have the necessary tools to cut them15:00 // Our intro BS ends and we finally start talking about locations!! Avengers Infinity War Behind the Scenes VideoBlack Narcissus (1947)Watch the trailerWatch the whole movie on FILM STRUCKThis is how "Wild horses" should actually soundZeppelin is so damn good //KashmirThe Song Remains the SameCredits and Personal Links:A Mama Bear Studios Production // Mama Bear Studios’ WebsiteProduced and edited by: Isaiah SmallmanExecutive Producer: Jon SchimpfOpening music: "The Get Down," Produced by Summer DregsOutro music: Composed and Recorded by Tom Paulus and Max BelzCover Art by: Nate GiordanoShow Website | ThatWay.fmShow Twitter | @ThatWayPodJon TwitterIsaiah InstagramIsaiah IMDBIsaiah’s Twitter (which he never uses)Isaiah LinkedIn
September 7, 2018
Hint: if you want to skip right to the giveaway jump ahead to 17:00 into the episode!Egg cooker timer thingBen and Jerry's "The Tonight Dough,” AKA the greatest ice cream flavor ever conceived by human hands.Nailed it on NetflixThe Dark Ages on via the Encyclopedia Britannica (NOT wikipedia)1491: New Revelations of The Americas Before Columbus (on Amazon) // This is basically a textbook, but it will blow your mind nonetheless.The “Nashville” episode of Drunk History on Hulu.Miley and Dolly rock out on “Rainbowland”
September 4, 2018
The War on Drugs // Here’s the music video for “Pain,” a song from his new album Thinking of a Place. Adam Granduciel, the main creative force behind the band happens to be from Philadelphia, which is also Zay’s home town and right across the river from Jon’s.“Good artists borrow, great artists steal” - Pablo Picasso (?)Robert Altman on WikipediaM*A*S*H (1970)The Long Goodbye (1973)Watch The Player (1992) on FilmstruckA Prairie Home Companion (2006)Oliver Stone (not Robert Altman) directed Born on the Fourth of July in 1989. It stars, guess who? Tommy Cruise himself.Mumblecore // It’s fine. It’s also not technically a thing. It’s just a sub-genre.52:00 // We’re launching a new show within a show! It’s called This is What You Should Watch!Bo Burnham // Amazing young director of Eighth GradeHere’s the trailer for Eighth Grade (2018) released by A24.Watch his standup special Make Happy on Netflix.@DadBoner AKA Karl Welzein // One of the greatest comedy experiments ever done on social media. Here’s his Twitter account.Here’s the link to the police station castle, which really does look like a castle!!!Paul Thomas Anderson //Watch the Boogie Nights (1997) trailer here.At the time of this release it’s still on Netflix here.Warning: extremely graphic material and some violence.Michael Arndt, the patron saint of Mama Bear Studios // Here’s his IMDB. He was nominated for an Oscar for Toy Story 3 (2010) and won the oscar for best original screenplay for Little Miss Sunshine (2006).Austin Film Festival // Easily one of the best festivals I’ve ever attended (especially for screenwriters). It starts Thursday, October 25, 2018.The Driskill Hotel, where Michael Arndt bought Zay drinks with his Star Wars money.1:11:00 // Time for the Mail Bag (subject to change)“The Fever” // The song that turned Jon into a Bruce Springsteen fan (at least for now)Squatty Potty // Their video is amazing and informative.Indonesian bathrooms are a little tricky for westernersWes Anderson // Zay’s earliest cinematic influenceRushmore (1998)The Royal Tenenbaums (2001)The Life Aquatic (2004)FilmGrab // An amazing resource for finding film stills onlineThis is how Wild Horses, by the Rolling Stones is supposed to sound.Here’s a link to a full concert of Led Zeppelin Live in 1970. It just doesn’t make sense how powerful and creative these guys were. Also, how do they make that hair look cool?Credits and Personal Links:A Mama Bear Studios Production // Mama Bear Studios’ WebsiteProduced by: Isaiah SmallmanEdited by: Roger Middenway ( Producer: Jon SchimpfOpening music: "The Get Down," Produced by Summer DregsOutro music: Composed and Recorded by Tom Paulus and Max BelzCover Art by: Nate GiordanoShow Website | ThatWay.fmShow Twitter | @ThatWayPodJon TwitterIsaiah InstagramIsaiah IMDBIsaiah’s Twitter (which he never uses)Isaiah LinkedIn
August 28, 2018
The Donner Party on WikipediaChive TV20:00 Zay doesn’t want to make what he doesn't want to make. And yes he realizes how spoiled that makes him.Walker Percy On Wikipedia // The Second Coming (1980) on Amazon“How did it happen that now he could see everything so clearly. Something had given him leave to live in the present. Not once in his entire life had he come to rest in the quiet center of himself but had forever cast himself from some dark past he could not remember to a future that did not exist. Not once had he been present for his life. So his life had passed like a dream. Is it possible for people to miss their lives the way one can miss a plane?” - The Second Coming A Confederacy of Dunces on Wikipedia // By John Kennedy Toole // Buy it on AmazonFellini on Wikipedia48:00 - Isaiah and Jon get real about if they have (thus far) done their lives "right."Submit your answers to the "did you do life the right way" discussion!Credits and Personal Links:A Mama Bear Studios Production // Mama Bear Studios’ WebsiteProduced and Edited by: Isaiah SmallmanExecutive Producer: Jon SchimpfOpening music: "The Get Down," Produced by Summer DregsOutro music: Composed and Recorded by Tom Paulus and Max BelzCover Art by: Nate GiordanoShow Website | ThatWay.fmShow Twitter | @ThatWayPodJon TwitterIsaiah InstagramIsaiah IMDBIsaiah’s Twitter (which he never uses)Isaiah LinkedIn
August 21, 2018
00:00 // Intro talk. Are we out of topics!? Nope. As Jon’s wife says, “only boring people are bored.”5:30 jumping into the episode! (We’re talking about Sundance)Robert Redford is a good looking man. “Old Man And The Gun” // Watch the trailer Mr. Show // Watch this episode on YouTube // Feat: David Cross and Bob Odenkirk)Mitch Hurwitz on IMDB 13:15 Time for the MAIL BAGPeacock update15fourJustin Bieber’s pastor (apparently they had a falling out)Lisa (Left Eye) Lopez // “Don’t Go Chasin’ Waterfalls”23:20 / That was interesting story add space24:00 // We solve the age-old question… What was in the head in the box???28:30 // Steve helps us with the school-arson fact checkNorthern district police station PICTURE // Spoiler: it really does look like a castle39:00 // Back to stories of Sundance!!!James Schamus on WikipediaAn exterior picture of our house at SundanceA picture of the deadly fireplaceMarcus Cox On IMDB Tangerine // Watch it on NetflixCredits and Personal Links:A Mama Bear Studios Production // Mama Bear Studios’ WebsiteProduced and Edited by: Isaiah SmallmanExecutive Producer: Jon SchimpfOpening music: "The Get Down," Produced by Summer DregsOutro music: Composed and Recorded by Tom Paulus and Max BelzCover Art by: Nate GiordanoShow Website | ThatWay.fmShow Twitter | @ThatWayPodJon TwitterIsaiah InstagramIsaiah IMDBIsaiah’s Twitter (which he never uses)Isaiah LinkedIn
August 14, 2018
00:00 // Jon didn’t actually see the movie. Is it weird that Tom Cruise is a scientologist?11:30 // Does JJ Abrams have any actual influence over the Mission Impossible Franchise? And does Tom Cruise doing his own stunts have a net positive or net negative impact on the financial health of the series? Tom Cruise being a complete BAMF and flying a helicopter through a canyon.16:00 // Award Nominations. The “FACE HOT” Award and the “OH SHIT I'M IN NOW” award.17:00 // Quick PLOT OVERVIEW for Jon since he didn’t see the movie.38:00 // Mail Bag:Peacock updateThe head in the box mystery is going to remain a mystery.41:00 // Zay's Big Confession!!45:30 // A little more Mission Impossible and some Wrap UpCredits and Personal Links:A Mama Bear Studios Production // Mama Bear Studios’ WebsiteProduced and Edited by: Isaiah SmallmanExecutive Producer: Jon SchimpfOutro music: Composed and Recorded by Tom Paulus and Max BelzCover Art by: Nate GiordanoShow Website | ThatWay.fmShow Twitter | @ThatWayPodJon TwitterIsaiah InstagramIsaiah IMDBIsaiah’s Twitter (which he never uses)Isaiah LinkedIn
August 7, 2018
Watch the Never Goin’ Back Trailer!Listen to the Never Goin’ Back Soundtrack on SpotifyLefty Frizzell (Augustine's grandad!) // Check out his wikipedia situation13:00 // How Do Film Festivals Work? (Specifically how do they schedule screenings?)19:00 // Greta Zozula DP of Never Goin’ Back AND Rollers!! Check out her on IMDB.Tarantino’ Editor. Unfortunately she died in 2010. Check her out on IMDB.Leni Riefenstahl, the Nazi director of Triumph of the Will.Wagner’s opera, ParsifalHow did we get involved with Never Goin’ Back?Sailor Bear on IMDBDavid Lowery, Toby Halbrooks, James JohnstonLiz CardenasA Ghost Story // Starring Rooney Mara and Casey Affleck // Watch the trailer30:00 // Mail Bag (Also write a review by August 27 for a chance to win a free t-Shirt!) You might even get your shirt signed by our former producer, the unnamed cat.34:00 // What was in the Central Park mystery box?!36:00 // Adventures with fire.53:00 // More talk about Never Goin’ Back. Kids will be kids!A Smattering of "Never Goin' Back" ReviewsDiner Waitresses Rebel in ‘Never Goin’ Back’ // The New York Times“Never Goin’ Back is one of the raunchiest, most satisfying comedies in years” // PolygonFemale bonding and social commentary swap sweat in wild, raunchy comedy ‘Never Goin' Back’ // LA TimesSuperbad (2007) // Dumb and Dumber (1994)Credits and Personal Links:A Mama Bear Studios Production // Mama Bear Studios’ WebsiteProduced and Edited by: Isaiah SmallmanExecutive Producer: Jon SchimpfOpening music: "The Get Down," Produced by Summer DregsOutro music: Composed and Recorded by Tom Paulus and Max BelzCover Art by: Nate GiordanoShow Website | ThatWay.fmShow Twitter | @ThatWayPodJon TwitterIsaiah InstagramIsaiah IMDBIsaiah’s Twitter (which he never uses)Isaiah LinkedIn
July 30, 2018
Episode 4 | Show Notes0:00 // Opening Conversation3:20 // Rollers Project UpdateZay attached a casting director!!Rebecca Dealy of Chrystie Street Casting in NYCWorked on films like Hereditary (2018), Jacki (2016), Patti Cake$ (2017) and many others.Check her out on IMDB8:20 // The search for a great co-producer continuesAn amazing documentary about the making of The Shining, made by Stanley Kubrick’s daughter. Watch it on YouTube.10:00 // New series announcement! Our next episode will be a discussion about a classic movie, Ace In The Hole!Sunset Boulevard on IMDB // Gloria Swanson on IMDBAce In The Hole // Watch The TrailerWatch Ace In The Hole and TONS of other stuff on FILMSTRUCK19:20 // What do producers do contd.22:45 // Time to answer the mail!30:30 // How do Executive producers differ from regular producers?What’s the Difference between indie and studios?Roger Corman // WikipediaTyler Perry // Main Website37:00 // When we finally get to talking about exec producersHunter Gatherer Executive ProducersDanny McBride on IMDBDavid Gordon Green on IMDBJody Hill on IMDB40:20 // Wrap upCredits and Personal Links:A Mama Bear Studios Production // Mama Bear Studios’ WebsiteProduced and Edited by: Isaiah SmallmanExecutive Producer: Jon SchimpfOpening music: "The Get Down," Produced by Summer DregsOutro music: Composed and Recorded by Tom Paulus and Max BelzCover Art by: Nate GiordanoShow Website | ThatWay.fmShow Twitter | @ThatWayPodJon TwitterIsaiah InstagramIsaiah IMDBIsaiah’s Twitter (which he never uses)Isaiah LinkedIn
July 23, 2018
Episode 3 | Show Notes0:00 - 9:00 | Jon and Zay cover Broadway and Jon’s NYC exploits.9:00 - 33:26 | Zay and Jon cover Zay’s responds to the theoretical haters. What if you’re you’re good enough to make it? What does success look like? What are Zay’s weaknesses as a director? Is there a difference between films and movies? Is it more important to make a critically or financially successful movie? Do you have to choose? How do you cover important issues in movies in a way that has staying power?33:30 - The Mail Bag (and a little salute to Teddy Bronson)35:00 - Where do ideas and inspiration come from?37:05 - 42:10 - Zay recounts his wonderful experience at David Chang’s Restaurant, [Majordomo]( - 46:15 - Jon and Zay’s Adventures with the homeless (and not-homeless)46:15 - 57:00 - Project update on Rollers / Zay’s almost got a casting director and he’s talking to producers (and more adventures with the homeless)59:20 - Zay (who just started playing guitar) plays a horrible cover of “Take Me Home, Country Roads.” This is how the song is supposed to sound.Links Etc.Rodgers and Hammerstein’s Carousel on Broadway | Website“A Real Nice Clambake” from Carousel The Play That Goes Wrong | WebsiteHunter Gatherer | Director: Josh LocyTrailer for the movieNew York Times ReviewWatch it onlineAnnihilation | TrailerMonster Trucks | Trailer"Friday" Music Video | Side note: the video has 123,120,758 views as of today’s dateA Confederacy of Dunces by John Kennedy Toole | Buy it on Amazon!“HBO Must Get Bigger and Broader, Says Its New Overseer” | Read it on the New York TimesBarry on HBO | Watch the TrailerOperation Midnight Climax | This is some crazy shitWon’t You Be My Neighbor | Watch the Trailer The David Chang ExperienceMajordomo, Los Angeles | WebsiteMomofuku, New York | WebsiteThe Dave Chang Show Podcast | Website (although don’t listen to it because you should listen to I guess we’ll Do It That Way)Momofuku Cook Book | Buy it on AmazonThe Balthazar Cookbook | Buy it on AmazonAn excellent international organization that helps people with mental illness | WebsiteHarmony Korine | IMDB | Correction: The film is called Fight Harm | WikipediaSanta Sangre | IMDBThe Great Comet | Produced by Tara Sickmeier and othersBruce Springsteen has been married for 27 years | "Bruce Springsteen and Patti Scialfa's Love Story Proves They Were Always Meant to be Together"Credits and Personal Links:A Mama Bear Studios Production // Mama Bear Studios’ WebsiteProduced and Edited by: Isaiah SmallmanExecutive Producer: Jon SchimpfOpening music: "The Get Down," Produced by Summer DregsOutro music: Composed and Recorded by Tom Paulus and Max BelzCover Art by: Nate GiordanoShow Website | ThatWay.fmShow Twitter | @ThatWayPodJon TwitterIsaiah InstagramIsaiah IMDBIsaiah’s Twitter (which he never uses)Isaiah LinkedIn
July 16, 2018
Great World Cup Dives (Feat. Neymar of Brazil)A list of the best LA Donut ShopsDon’t Think TwiceDir. Mike BirbigliaCasting Dir. Jessica Kelly, Kate GellerWatch the TrailerLady BirdDir. Greta GerwigCasting Dir. Heidi Giffiths, Allison Jones, Jordan ThalerWatch the TrailerDid Stanley Kubrick try to break up Tom Cruise and Nicole Kidman's Marriage?“Was ‘Eyes Wide Shut’ merely an elaborate, expensive way for Stanley Kubrick to toy with Tom Cruise?”“Nicole Kidman Admits That Stanley Kubrick Based 'Eyes Wide Shut' On Her Marriage With Tom Cruise”P.S. We have no idea if these articles are legit...PETA Abuse HotlineCharlie Smallman, the new producer of I Guess We’ll Do It That Way and Olive, the runner up. Charlie is the bigger oneDrake’s New Album, ScorpionDrake’s Rant to the haters Which some people say is complete a joke. Who knows.Euro Stepping Explained (Finally)Lance Stephenson, “A garbage pail kid”Lance Stephenson Blows Carbon Dioxide in Lebron’s EarLance vs. Lebron CompilationFollow Nate Drexler on Twitter // @NateDrexPopulation of Iceland: 334,000 Official Rules about World Cup NationalityCredits and Personal Links:A Mama Bear Studios Production // Mama Bear Studios WebsiteProduced and Edited by: Isaiah SmallmanExecutive Producer: Jon SchimpfOpening music: "The Get Down," Produced by Summer DregsOutro music: Composed and Recorded by Tom Paulus and Max BelzCover Art by: Nate GiordanoShow Website | ThatWay.fmShow Twitter | @ThatWayPodJon TwitterIsaiah InstagramIsaiah IMDBIsaiah’s Twitter (which he never uses)Isaiah LinkedInTRANSCRIPT (Probably a mess)so I have to pay is this a a small man you're listening to I guess we'll do it that way podcast right call my buddy John each week to check in on my progress as a direct my first feature film Senate by mama bear studios mama there's mission is to create entertaining works of art that explore he made it alright hears of the so to Hey Johnny mayor living it up in the city my man here in New York are you I am indeed the city that never sleeps the Big Apple the big easy those are not the same places very very different places vague the New York is the least easy place I've ever heard of in my entire life people are meeting New York I mean I love I love New York but they're they're mean they're mean to you of old because they smell my fear they see your weekend they're trying to weed you out of me food that is it is there yeah yeah a works works like a charm how do people respond to you I'm toting around little junior so the reception is always great there like I yes more people that we can corrupt from the young age just impressed you know anytime you see a kid doing something difficult like if you were hiking up a mountain and there were a ten year old next you trying his hardest to do it you be impressed and the same sort of thing happens here in old grizzled New Yorker sees a ten and a six year old hoofing it down the street right and he he says feel some mutual respect for that kid and as soon as I must be a good guy that I bred them to be this way but whatever I wasn't really know is that they're just walking because of the threat of spanks O. so they're terrified I had a I had a real New York moment the other day actually I was crossing the street because I kind of live in the city I mean I I live in the city it's right city it's the city and I was walking to get it done not with my uncle who is visiting %HESITATION LA is big downtown unlike New York that's one major bonus every New York there's not a Dunkin donuts in sight it's all local places that mostly also sell Lotto tickets and %HESITATION you know Chinese food or burgers but their donuts are good these are help homemade doughnuts very delicious homemade donuts I mean kind of in the classic style of a Dunkin donuts they're not like their fancy done it's too button for the most part that the other they're pretty basic pretty basic style raised fried doughnuts and they are bang in how to the top them %HESITATION any any way you want but I'm kind of a classic I like I like glazed I like %HESITATION glaze twist like Bavarian cream with chocolate %HESITATION yeah I'm pretty to I'm a pretty straight straight down the middle guy as long as the quality of the day I was there do you have any apprehension about eating a doughnut and public zero so you get these donuts also you get six doughnuts twelve donuts you'll walk out of Kelly's donut shop Sally's donut shop and there's a bench outside and people are sitting out there in donuts you'll join them you'll sit out there and you'll eat it down out in front of everybody %HESITATION hundred percent you get some custard on your face a little powdered sugar in your beard you're not afraid I was wondering if your worry I was a I was wondering if the root of that question was more that like some some donuts are sort of phallic in shape this says a lot about your personality in your file your private mental life and I'm still kind of working through some repressed feelings apparently towards donuts mainly no I mean the shame of getting sugar and Greece so I get that and I get that %HESITATION I mean it's kind of a car town so you honestly I take my daughter back to my car and eat in the car yeah is there shame involved here I mean usually the first one I feel fine and then once I've gone I've left got on the interstate turned around and come back for the fourth time to get another Donna that's usually when I start feeling some shame you think any director casting director has ever asked an actor to eat a doughnut in front of them just to see how they eat it down at the role requires you eating a doughnut so safe here and the defenses of that not having happened are the same as the chances that someone hasn't climbed a palm tree naked and take any **** from the top in Los Angeles I've done that so there we go out then I think it's pretty safe to say that someone has asked a someone in casting session to you don't have you ever seen someone eat it down and a casting session I've never now I've ever asked I should though but then again if there's a role involves eating it done and I'm casting myself we're here in town I were you I would pay you to get that role how much would you pay me a dollar fifty better rice with down to three Bucks yeah the price of a fancy Dona yeah I think that seems reasonable so last time we talked we were gonna go real quick I want to tell you I want to tell you my New York moment %HESITATION yet hit me so I was walking down the street to go get it done out right now and a guy in a cab which made it even more of a New York minute because there's not that many cabs in LA again handicap I'm crossing the crosswalk heat big dumb dumb pulls away too far on the interstate intersection any start backing up over me and my dogs he literally almost ran me over and I started banging on his hood and I was like dude what are you doing you don't back up in the middle of a crosswalk that's like number one rule of driving everyone knows that anyway it was a pretty classic New York moment there was a guy walking in there that's kind of how did you resolve that situation I was like get your **** together your professional driver and I walked it was just a yellow cab like a typical taxi cab resident who were left yeah yeah I expect this kind of the S. from a left no it was a yellow cab this guy is like supposed to be a true professional I was ticked I think a lot of people in that situation let the car hit them and sue I think I should have done it I coulda made rollers even bigger could be huge right now I should have made sure that my neck was very very staff you have some acting experience so you could really pull this off that was a major missed opportunity could sell a hand this is a bummer I'm gonna go find another cab we sat down and watched a few minutes of the World Cup which is %HESITATION it's excellent soccer and excellent acting I know I feel like you really can't play at that level as you were terrific actor these guys flop rubbing their muscles screaming five minutes later they're kicking goals and I mean it's unreal well and honestly to these guys are so strong I mean eat it took to play at that level for ninety consecutive minutes your muscles are so resilient they they you know I mean they are not going to get hurt that easily but I I mean Hey like this is a game it's not without it's not outside the rules you got to do everything we possibly can to win to take a break to you know get somebody else Yellowcard whatever it's got to be what's funny is that the refs don't put an end to it yeah they reward this behavior feels like they should have a panel up without score cards to put up the for how well that player and then when the film instead of penalty kicks a precisely acting points yeah I like that %HESITATION cool we should pray reintroduce the show because I'm sure everyone's already forgotten about it %HESITATION this is I guess we'll do it that way a show where I I say a call you Johnny there once a week to talk about the making of rollers among many other things as you probably already know John where did we leave off last week who knows it's been an entire week I think we decided that we were going to end up talking today about casting directors which incidentally has already sort of come up that's very true casting directors oh yeah because this week that was kind of the next big big thing for me wall what's happened this I mean honestly if not much is happening as we are now I think this is gonna be recover occurring theme no it actually some stuff started to come together this morning tele minutes minutes before we start recording no I think this is this is probably a good time to address it though that is going to be a recurring theme of this podcast for sure I think we can change that the theme of the theme of things not happening as quickly as I want them to but you're right maybe we can change it you need to change it maybe this will spur you on ten make more content by causing drama you know yeah tell some actors that they got the job in column back in town they didn't get the job who would see some heartache some drama John you should be a producer I like the way you think it's because I sound like Weinstein now earn a you don't sound rape you to sound smart keep manipulative so yeah so basically the casting director %HESITATION I'm not gonna drop any names because she has not attach yourself yet but got a very positive email back we're going back and forth we're kind of talking about you know the size and scope and type of the project and what my expectations are in the woman I'm talking to a super super cool and %HESITATION yeah I hope she hopes she gets excited about the project wants to do it she read it last week so %HESITATION but she's traveling so we're just kinda emailing at this point we might we might end up on the phone later today so I might actually have a more exciting update next week **** hole but I might have had on a promise everybody how did you even get hooked up with this person in the first place that is good question okay you know I started going through a lot of decent sized in the movies that I've liked from the last X. number of years five six three names three names three names of casting directors now of movies all movies okay one that I really like don't think twice he seen that one might perfectly it's about an improv troupe in New York now it's really really good it's okay so part of the reason that was interesting to me is it's very funny but it's very dramatic it's a little dark %HESITATION that is something that I think homely I'm trying to achieve with rollers and so I looked at that I was like boom that movies freaking great who brought all those people together well I'm assuming maker Biglia had a lot to do with it but at the same time I'm sure the casting director had a lot to do with it %HESITATION another one would be labor from last year GC labor now John we gotta get you in more movies and now if John doesn't even like movies %HESITATION herbal I've heard lady bird is good I've heard of Burr Biglia because he'd this is on NPR all the time who are used to be I don't even know that he was one of the city is a really great comedian %HESITATION you should look up the stuff he's he's amazing I'll link to some of his his definition of it's we know Mike listen so Hey Mike Mikey boy he our to our to listeners we are now up to we've got teddy Bronson of Wisconsin and Mikey bored labor big cleo from right here in New York City yeah baby I think does live in New York I think I heard an interview with him or that you want to go track them down I'm already working on it he's probably busy listening to our podcast so you know it's at home he sleep walking around the city mmhm nice reference I like so he but here's the real question so you have a movie you say okay this is of similar size as to what I'm making and you look at the credits and you find the casting director but you said earlier find a casting director who I like and I think most people out there like how would you know if what they did was good or not don't they aren't they really just going out and saying who can we get in our price range for this type of movie and they're just basically selecting the people who say yes I think that's a good yeah that's a really good question I hate I think it probably really depends on the type of project I think it depends on the casting director themselves and yet the people that I started calling it taints your previous question basically what I did is there's a website called IMDb there's a version of I am to be caught I'm DB pro which you know you pay like a very small annual fee and you just get a little bit more information and so some people will include you know contact information for either their company or themselves or whatever's necessary and so when I when I did create this list identify these people and some of them didn't have any information up so I just had to track it down you know by if say they have a name of their company but not %HESITATION you know not actual phone number or an email I would just kind of do some internet research and and find it and you know call them or email them and just say Hey here's the years just the project here's what I've done before is this the kind of thing you'd be interested in talking about and they say yes or no and yes it's kind of hit or miss from there once they're attached to what I actually do what are they actually doing okay well again it okay so that's where it comes into it depends on the project as a casting director in this case what I'm really excited about is finding someone who is going to have great ideas about people that I haven't thought of like Hey there's this actor that is in this show where there's this actor who's in this movie a couple years ago that you may not know and you should really think about that or what if we went to this person who is a little bigger but like we can maybe find a connection to them or hear someone that no one's ever heard of it all but I saw them in this thing and they are incredible let's have them in and talk to them and see if they'd be a fit for the role I think in my mind that's with perfect casting director does and then beyond that what they did then are able to do is say help me think through will these people work together well like will they have good chemistry you know so it's it's partly like it depends on the role and so with big leads there's a smaller list of people to potentially fill those roles and so with a big big big studio movie for example I think a lot of casting directors are %HESITATION you know there's only a handful of people who can headline a fifty to a hundred million dollar movie %HESITATION within any given age range gender etcetera and so that less is gonna be pre eighty short there's you know there's only so many Tom Hanks out there and so part of their job I I assume I mean I've never made a movie like that is to you know figure out what the deal is with those people figure out whether they're available you know pitch them on the project but you know at this level it is a lot more kind of keeping tabs on who's out there keeping tabs on projects making sure that we're thinking through every possibility and not just kind of you know going with the most obvious choices I think there are the obvious perception of a lot of people it's like the script comes in and the part calls for a two hundred and fifty pounds Samoan ex wrestler whose name has to do with lithography and she says you know who am I gonna get right what are the circumstances under which a casting director could get fired I would fire casting director if I felt like they were kind of phoning it in in saying lets you know if I was like I really want to push this like let's think outside the box is find somebody who looks different you know or find somebody who is it the first person that comes to mind when I think of this role for for example like there's so many movies so many movies get made so many indie movies and this is not to say that this is bad I I this is not a value judgment I just think it it is a in easy thing to slip into where it's just like great let's cast every role with typical white hipster twenty seven year old white hipster male female insert X. number of actors there's a number of people who can do that that's fine I want to see that's what the people want is that we'll see that's the thing though it is a you know a bunch of bearded guys let's just preponderance circle had to eat all of the problems with Hollywood by starting at the Indy level let's only cast white hipsters and then will only end up with white hipster movie stars it's perfect I love that plan John but it really does come down to what the script calls for like years what is that who were the leaves your script okay so there's really three three it's kind of an ensemble movie which is really fun and so again in this case I think a really count the casting director is going to look at it and say you know these are some people that maybe we should really think about and they're not the kind of people you would immediately thought of but man they would look so good day they would feel so good together they would feel like family for example there's a brother and a sister Madeon Rufus %HESITATION those are two of the three kind of main leads and then there's a second tier of really heavily featured supporting actors and so %HESITATION there's a lot of really juicy roles and so my goal there is to say obviously all of those rules don't need to be people that I've heard of I I hope that maybe one or two of them are just so that we can kind of help raise the profile of the project but %HESITATION finding people who played supporting roles in TV shows or or smaller movies and saying like man these people you may not have heard of them but they're gonna look great on screen with these other people and they're just gonna have like really great chemistry and where she finding these people is she going to local theaters I mean what is the actual work of getting is isn't this just a person that knows like fifteen actors now it's more like I if they end up knowing a ton of actors I think the real skill is probably I mean I don't know exactly how they do their job maybe down the road we can talk to somebody and really get into their world but out my assumption is that they'd kind of do it in a similar way that I do which is they watch a ton of stuff and keep notes on people that jump out at them and just sort of keep an idea of like Hey this is the kind of person that would be good for this kind of thing but what I really want help with in a movie like this is there's a brother and a sister for example manifest they need to be very believable as brother and sister obviously because they are brother and sister but how do we do that in a way that again is not just sort of a straight up the middle let's cast to people that kinda look exactly the same like that's not really what sells them as brother and sister you know right it's the chemistry it's it's the chemistry and I'm even kind of interested in thinking about Hey do they even have to look the same can one of them be Asian and one of them be white or one of them be black and one of them is Indian I don't know I mean I'm come clearly open and that's the kind of thing that I think a really excellent casting director is going to be able to help think through in some of this to it depends on the leads like frankly I'm probably not going to be in a position where I'm auditioning a lot of these leaks I'm probably gonna be making straight offers because people like auditioning auditioning sucks and so some of this is gonna be trust is gonna be largely based on their previous work right the people submit like a deck to you or a an audition tape or do you just look at their previous films a bit what if somebody hasn't been anything well the neck is we would audition them right the reason we would not dishing them is because they're just at the level where they don't have to audition anymore right %HESITATION but typically a you're just looking at previous work and then you know the the typical process is they send a real witches I hate reels side note I hate reels there that there are real is basically %HESITATION this is so annoying one is my my I pad keeps being eight the volume is down in its on do not disturb so I don't know how that yeah demonized okay I could hear it just then and I could hear you like pause yeah in it dad makes me angry it's totally fun yeah I think I'm gonna turn my wifi off so **** **** **** being put to impeding his neck in a killer call now I'm on my laptop for the call so what was the question again %HESITATION you were in the middle of telling me that casting directors up we talk about chemistry %HESITATION finding people who are right for the roles %HESITATION flow may find the direct offers right to making direct offers not auditioning people yeah another thing that it occurs to me when you're making an independent movie is cost has got to be a huge consideration right so it part of me is like if you had the capability to do something like it sounds like you have the capability to go out there and find these actors if it really just entails looking at work so you can go watch fifty independent movies and find people for this role is there any temptation to just want to do all a lot of the stuff yourself a lot over a hundred percent absolutely but here's the thing is I'm not again I I believe I believe in I believe and collaboration let's get real cheesy for a minute here now just super cheesy no I believe in collaboration I believe that someone else is gonna have not necessarily better ideas although they'll probably have better ideas but more importantly they're gonna have different ideas right and that's what is going to make this movie get I mean okay that's the name of this podcast which we should talk about at some point I don't know if we've explained yet the name of the podcast is I guess we'll do it that way which is very much at the core of this question which is yeah like if it look if if all these casting directors like do this script sucks and I don't won't take any risks on you because you seem like a real hack then yeah I'm gonna be like okay cool then I guess I'll just are calling all these actors myself like when the actors something about going to I know her agent so what I would do is I'd call her agent I'd say Hey do you think you can get this her and hopefully she would say yes and could I do that absolutely but am I gonna come up with as many good ideas no and more importantly another thing that casting directors do if they've made good stuff is that the legitimized project and so win actor why is thinking about you know when you're trying to get it to them their agent or their manager or whoever is their main gate keeper is to some extent going to be trying to shield them from bullshit and so when a casting director with great credits comes and says Hey I think this project is worth your time that's a completely different situation than some no name director like me calling them and sort of getting stuck at the bottom of the pile that's fastening that actually makes a ton of sense the legitimize the project by attaching themselves to it in that in in in the more people that attach themselves more legitimate the project gets and so the first actor that signs on is often the hardest and then if that person is really cool in the second person like on him work with that person isn't really great and then it just snowballs so these are all the rules are not cast at the same time they might pick of the main lead months or weeks or whatever ahead of all the other parts and use that as leverage to get yes the people they want absolutely but again back to the I guess we'll do it that way thing part of what happens is oh so and so is available on these windows next year March April and July and everything else they're booked and so we're like cool I guess we're gonna try to pull it off in April and then we start going everyone else in one of the first things you do when your check with actors you check their availabilities and you say Hey are they even available in the spring in there like now they're on a TV show until July and so you're like okay cool do we want to do it in July do we want to restructure do and this is why even huge movies you know another thing that we're producing a much much much bigger movie with like actual movie stars he would have heard of that would be a fine one to talk about down the road I can't talk about a time right now but like things here in a stars now right I'm just teasing everybody Kelly my wife was listening to the first episode she's like you better keep all these promises like in the show knows better be good because I need to show notes of like all they're going to be good I'm gonna make sure I got everything in there get ready to be disappointed Kelly yeah exactly Kelly's never no one's ever gonna listen episode three for sure but %HESITATION the idea would be so with even with bigger movies where money is really not the issue because they're paying people buku money to do these big movies shore the real problem is like the only get to do like three movies a year if you're not and then sell in and do you know so and so had to lose fifty pounds to do it and cut his hair off so like he's kind out of commission for the rest of the year and then you know and then this other guys like I'm only doing this and this and you know it's all of a sudden you end up making all these compromises and being like okay cool that's not our first choice but how do we find this other person who is also available to same time who also likes this person and then when you get into I mean thankfully I don't think this is as much of a thing for movies this size but I mean eventually get in a situation where it's like other crazy do you want to put up with that you know or they have history with this other person who's on you know who's who's acting in the movie is that gonna be a problem you know mean famously %HESITATION dis people said that Stanley Kubrick used eyes wide shut to break up Tom Cruise Nicole Kidman's marriage you know they're somewhat that way will way why would he do that for what purpose I don't know I don't even really know much about the legend I just maybe wasn't Nicole Kidman I don't know you never heard that I I think it does that not a common legend I thought that was kind of like a typical because they got divorced after that right you just invented a wild wild theory I love my life as I could get my phone just beep did somebody just sent me that on Twitter did know nobody's ever said that you just made that up I don't know I'm gonna find it it look there will be proof in the show knows who we are going to get a letter from his lawyer from his children I'm telling the state yes and I will have the last thing I want he's my hero you had a wild up to some serious forces here my man I'm just driving box office dollars may be so after the cast is set after everybody's lined up sometimes dude sometimes the cast doesn't get set until like the day before your shooting that scene I'm serious I mean I believe and we're shooting hunter gather there were a couple minor roles that we were looking for in till the last minute so after that after you're ready to shoot does the casting director just go to Jamaica what are they do they stick around and help it really depends I think a lot of cases they move on other projects I mean that's one okay another thought on casting directors hit me part of what makes a casting director slightly more approachable than say a famous actor or a big time super producer casting directors are that their involvement is very front loaded and so it's a little bit less when a producer or director or an actor signs on the project and they are stuck with that thing for years potentially you know because obviously they gotta sit through the development process they've got to make it which is like you know potentially months of work between prep and shooting I mean depends on how long the shoot is for advice shut your that's your year basically obviously rollers is not that big and then you've got %HESITATION you know potentially come back for reshoots and then you got it go to festivals and then you got to do like if it's a bigger movie gotta do like talk shows and podcasts in the press tour and all that kind of sucks all the sudden saying yes to one thing is a nightmare you know and see really got to want to do it it's not just %HESITATION it's not just like yeah pop in for if it's a pop in for four days type thing sometimes you can get pretty huge people %HESITATION but in this case you know it's it's you know like especially these leads it's a little bit of a process it's not gonna be a ton of press one nice thing is I'm shooting in LA so you know that's a big pitch to actors is Hey we're you know we're gonna shoot LA you probably live in LA just or maybe New York but either way it you probably spend a lot of time in LA at the very least and so you can probably sleep in your bed you can get other work done but I'm getting off track the point is the casting directors day %HESITATION they they're typically by the time you're in production they're they're pretty they're pretty pretty much moved on wears a producer isn't done really ever because even after the movie is released are still sending out okay accounting reports and you know %HESITATION finding new territories to sell a film to and all that kind of stuff do you know the path to become a casting director mean that's not something you go to school for right now that's actually good question I'm assuming the path is you start as someone's assistant and did they give you more things to do like I don't know exactly what casting assistant does on a day to day basis but I assume it's something like they are doing some of that research they're answering stuff the coordinating stuff they're doing whatever and then eventually they're like Hey want you you know here's this project that I don't have time for one of you can help me out I got to know we have to research this because now it's like who was the first casting director who never that's a good question come who is the for okay it would've been late actually I bet because back in the day it well but then again okay there's kind of two key components casting there's leads and names and all that kind of half you know there's there are the bigger people and then there's everyone else in the movie which is a completely different process because even a movie like the size of rollers a lot of the roles we are going to be auditioning people for but that's where some of the work of a of a cash record really comes in is because you've got the two halves you've got the the bigger half which is like leads to in this particular case with rollers I'm not necessarily going to be auditioning most of these leads I'm probably gonna end up going straight to some of them and saying based on your previous work I think it be amazing for this will you read this I might even write them a personal note explaining why I think they're great for the role in they decide to do it or not but they're not really an audition process a lot of the other roles though like all the a lot of supporting roles and and and guy number three who's you know I'm walking near that guy you know you can't audition that guy you got to find a guy because home and can be done that you got to get him to eat it down and for exactly I mean you got to see if you can eat a doughnut naturally a few looks like a looks like a crazy person some people look like crazy people in eight on us and you need that it's a litmus test to see a person's true self when they have powdered sugar on their face like can you hang with that if you can you have some real fortitude if not move along body we need somewhere else yet sorry it's nothing personal but we %HESITATION we don't need you it's not gonna work out get the F. out of my office how sad is it that really for the guy guy number three when you don't get that part %HESITATION Cascadia auditioning is brutal I mean I and most really famous people don addition all but I mean do it sucks because he okay let me describe a typical audition okay hit me you walk into the casting director's office there's like literally forty other people standing around they all kind of look like you year number twenty three you go in depending on the size a role and I had the the the distinct honor of being on both sides of of of this of this coin evolution for things and I've auditioned to people you've been dying to sitting there like a Shelob yeah and it's %HESITATION and you know it also sucks being the guy telling guy number twenty two thank you that was great and he walks out and you're like that was never going to happen there jobs were like oh that guy is great he just took in our and a half of his day to get here early and sit in front of me for literally three and a half minutes if that I've done auditions where I was in there for ten seconds not really ten seconds but under a minute because it's like yeah it's literally like you just pop in its for commercial they're like Hey take your shirt off while kind of commercials this %HESITATION I did %HESITATION it's that this special kind of commercial know this particular one okay this is part one of the dumbest auditions ever done is for like a cell phone commercial but the whole thing was a guy in a shower so they're like didn't actually make me take my shirt now they actually they did they want me take my shirt off to see what I look like shirtless which is fine I don't care I wore shorts and then I had to pretend like I was taking a shower I mine to shower described the room to us how many people are in this room in anywhere from one to five maybe it depends on the net is the one that you were in the one that you were in where you belong casting director one guy casting director making tape what city was this an easy walk in and you're like this is my name you know whatever %HESITATION this is in LA you walk in you like this is my name and and %HESITATION you know he said in the camera and then basically they're just making a big Ole list of people and so on the other side what do that the next step is I get let's say it's a commercial or movie for that matter %HESITATION I get in some form usually over the internet a %HESITATION you know a a list of or up a bunch of links to either a single link with a whole bunch of people with names and all that kind of stuff or like a link their little audition and %HESITATION and the resume and maybe an acting real %HESITATION I was saying earlier I hate reels here's why he reels and acting real is basically when you cut together a bunch of partial scenes and make like a little sizzle reel that shows how good of an actor your charm is there just never good there never good because the the things you were doing were never meant to be viewed in that way so it's you whipping around saying Hey I'm walking here and they take that put a yeah you like Hey I'm walking in the next thing you know you're in a different costume in a different place doing a different scene I just always would prefer to see I guess here's the thing a real can tell me if someone's bad I can tell someone's bad just by looking at a real I shouldn't really tell if they're good by looking at a real so then you bring him in so then I bring him in if I like my bring him in and I'm like Hey you know what's up dude don king if you're just starting out the next step would be let's say I have like a hundred a hundred people I mean it to be a totally depends but let's say a hundred people you know I would usually give some direction to the cash director maybe its sides if if it's a movie you know its price at the line you know the side space sides is basically the the peace of the scene or the peace the script that's relevant to that particular actor fanatical role and so the you know they may have the sides ahead of time and that's a whole nother thing how they get those sides that's usually %HESITATION it really depends on the size and role but usually these people out agents those those people's agents get contacted by the casting director by other people and and say to their actors who they represent their like Hey you you you you should come in here's a side to be ready you know have this monologue memorized have this other thing or have this line you know I'm locking him make she said you know three different ways and so you go in and you'll say it three different ways and then you walk out you're gonna get alone so this podcast I think you think I'll get a head like that role that's not you can be on NYPD Blue fifty times if I could get a job being that guy fifty times on NYPD Blue I would make good money yeah and probably be able to not have another job and make movies Hey if you're listening NYPD Blue casting rector I'm gay some of the ways that solid gold thank you John so what happens is I look at this beagle list of people and I'm like wow you know %HESITATION thirty percent of these people can't act unfortunately and %HESITATION choose your worst relief scene so I don't even know how to start hit me I mean I don't even know how to describe you know when you're like watching someone who can't act it's the worst %HESITATION it's just so painful it is absolutely excruciating homemade real if you're just starting out you you gotta put in what you're selling some in high school sometimes I I'm even I mean well that's the thing is it's really hard to get started because well how do you get rolls of you have been in anything and how do you get anything if you haven't gotten rolls right is it's a cleaner to classic chicken or the egg tell the kids out there right now I am have to tell the kids out there right now how do you get a how do you get a role kids out there right now I don't know I actually don't know I mean it's a it's a it's a haul it's you gotta find people you know that are making stuff and you got to get them to put you in it that's really what has to be and and I will say I don't usually judge acting based on the quality of the production value I can definitely see a little bit of a like okay this short is but Roche yes but that's not the actors fall in that in some cases are all bad should you know what you gotta do you gotta try some I've made terrible stuff that's just the way it goes that everybody makes bad stuff that's just how that's how you get better some you at right now exit we our making just a god awful podcasts of that later we can make a good podcast and but it won't real quick back to process though easy you know I don't even usually I don't look at a lot of reels unless I feel like I need a little bit more info typically let's say we have all these tapes and it's the person saying their lines or in some cases you know you come up with other ways to sort of see if they can do it like the donut thing that's a great Johnny should be cast record because that's maybe not the donut but it's a good idea for example there's one rollers the donut guy now casting director I'm available %HESITATION who the guy in my telling about casting directing is gonna be my casting director I love that I'll text you my fear right now okay is it above or below a million dollars I'm insulted that you'd even ask me that question if right will lower business I like your style it's all donuts I have a huge expenditure I'm gonna write a donut guy into the movie and you're gonna be the donut guy John I'm committing to that on the record right now I will fly out I will do this I love it okay so let's say it's a small role sometimes you got to come up with kind of creative ways to see if someone can do it for you handles yeah exactly and and and I've had roles where there's not a lot of talking but there's a lot of acting shore and some of its kind of improv some like you know sometimes you come up with this is I'm not saying this is good I'm just saying it actually kind of worked in this situation %HESITATION there is a person and the script it this was like a really last minute commercial the script was still in flux I was like I'm not gonna you know I'm not gonna try to make these people like memorize all this stuff and you know be this character and whatever so let's just honestly these people if they're right for the role part of it's going to look that's one thing I'm I I would say to young you know young actors the the the unpleasant reality is look look sexier no it's not that all the problem is each job because sometimes you just look the part or you don't and I think that's kind of an unfortunate reality like if they have somebody with brown hair and you know kind of shortened a little stubby and your lanky and tall Hey shoot going there do your best maybe they'll change their minds but the reality is a lot of the time they're just going like yeah they just don't look the part fix your body you got about a surge or just do you know you just may not get every part I think Jim pal that's my wet body it get it least three inches cut out of your legs put down at down put that down at down there is exactly the kind of message that will be spreading John there's a guy going around to give all of our listeners body image problems sorry keep on there's a guy walking around New York on quote unquote auditioning for as many rules as he can eating all the freemen's so the last thing I'll say about casting is you know they they there's an example where it's like Hey you know I don't need you to say all the I don't need you to do this like amazing Shakespeare monologue I just need to know that you're comfortable on camera and so you just come up with like a thing that they can do that will show you if they're comfortable on camera or if they can think on their feet or you just have to kind of decide what the role requires and then you have to figure out how to test those people it's almost like %HESITATION it's almost like science you know you have a hypothesis and then you've got to decide does does this work you know you're like I think dogs have emotions and then you have to come up with a test to actually figure out and create some sort of tangible evidence as to whether or not dogs have emotions in casting can be a little bit like that like I think you look right now can you do this can you be this way can I see you as small or can I see you as pathetic or can I see you as giant or strong or angry and that's really what it comes down to its last like I mean some of its professionalism some of its you know just can you be flexible can you think on your feet but some of its can I believe that you are a certain person or certain way how do you test to see if the dog has emotions I don't know that's a good question speaking of which we've got some new applications for producers my my sweet little kiddies with my niece right now %HESITATION Kitty cat came back well I'm not taken aback she can live with you but she's not a producer anymore I'm sorry I can't says bush league as soon as she saw my my niece who immediately picked this beautiful little Kitty happen started cuddling her and feeding her and taking care of her she was completely down with me the cat wants nothing to do with me anymore I think we're through well how should have a better life yeah I think that's great I think that she had it coming she did do a good job producing our last episode guides the first one was she produced like the first three minutes of it she said the Mike up and then that was it what do you think about have you met my dogs all of them Charlie because they're both vying for the role real hard I'm completely in favor of that that's not too nepotistic for you I mean if they fill out a form I watch a video you know go through the process is totally fine will speaking of casting I was trying to think of how to test whether or not they kind of have the %HESITATION the roll with the punches added to that a producer would need for show for a you know a high stakes show like this you have to do that well I I don't know yet I'm still working on kind of vetting them but earlier I decided to sort of get on the floor kinda wrestle with them a little bit and I found a toy that they really liked and I made them fight to the death I'm gonna put the phone number to pizza and the show now it's no I it's it's day trust me no one got hurt I stop them but I just needed to know that they if I say fight to the death with your brother all of I want you to kill him this is an Abraham and Isaac situation yeah exactly I needed to know that she would do it and she was totally in just your recitation and I I had to stop or she had her her mouth around Charlie's jugular and she was about to rip it out and I was like all of you got you got it but then it soon Charlie didn't waste a second he as soon as I said you're done he he took advantage of of her guard being down and he got her hand and so now they're tied and I can't decide which one we should give their all too after all that work it's gonna be a shame but just flip a coin alright let's %HESITATION let's flip okay I got a quarter I'm gonna flip now call in here okay as for all of Charlie got it it was tales he wanted it more yeah he definitely wanted it more okay says a %HESITATION you told me to listen to that Drake the new album scorpion what do you think of it I started at this morning listen the first two songs but I pulled it up on my phone on I tunes you know and they have notes about the album and Drake wrote the editor notes show for you for instance you know if it were like kids he goes it would say kid cutting Kanye west made this album last year blah blah blah it's a little bit about it but Drake wrote the editor notes for his album and they are the following your reading yes I'm so ready okay this is all caps so the person is screaming this I person being Drake yeah Drake is it cool to like Drake by the way I don't even know I just send it to you because like all this is blown up who's gonna read like three of these amps can relate okay ready yet and we can answer that question after we read this is it okay electric or is it cool electric is a cool okay ahead okay I hate when Drake raps Drake sings too much Drake is a pop artist who drink doesn't even write his own songs Jake didn't start from the bottom Drake is finished Jake thinks he's Jamaican what what Jake is an actor Drake changed anybody else later than sign Drake that's what he wrote I am dying right now it's crazy right so I saw that I had to read it like four times what does this mean Drake is going through some **** sick of the haters **** with them that is wild intense but the songs they sounding the haters are **** with them with good reason do you have an opinion on that no I mean I don't either I don't know anything about any of these people I know very little about him at all you make great songs do that's where it stops like I don't care what you do after that does he make great songs though yeah yeah he's okay I mean who I mean I think it is easy fresh out to the beach always sound so why I know I mean what it means not Williamsburg right now yeah yeah and I just said y'all y'all baby southerner but I did listen to one of the songs and Drake said that he zero stepping somewhere like his euro step in past people into the metaphorical and zone of success I guess some I just makes so many metaphors but not do you know I could not get that image out of my mind of Drake traveling because that's what is your your stepping is traveling right I bet it's a very luxurious process you know what you're stepping as you know I'm talking about I don't know I don't know how we know so little about basketball we're gonna be exposed here okay so yeah so you're a step is when you take like one two three I think people are screaming right now with the radios were on the radio teddy screaming because of how stupid I am right now but I think it's one two three steps shoot the ball get points owe you get twenty suits brought it over with basketball you know you make the basket you get points yeah yeah but these guys brought this like step over from Europe which is why it's from Europe league basketball and brought it over to the NBA hero stepping and now it's kinda G. year established and get away with it yeah daughter step it's a very it's a unique sort of thing but it looks like straight up traveling OC you meant travelling like traveling in basketball not traveling in Europe exactly I was picturing Drake on a jet that was the wrong image we gotta get a Canadian the horn did yeah we got a buddy need Drexler sports expert maybe you can clear pure stepping for us we think he's a sports writer he knows a lot of stuff about sports let's see what he has to say about your stepping we're just sports in general of baby is a level of those exports Nate oooh baby we got matrix or on the horn on biological I stay at my west coast spread my only west coast connect how are you neat I'm so good can you hear my boy Johnny bear Hey Anthony what's going on shot a bear what's going on with my man I'm just a few blocks away in beautiful Astoria I was gonna say long time no talk welcome to the east coast my friend Anthony never panned a nice screen last night together always scared we went on an ice cream journey and Johnny bear as yourself actually called him got ice cream snickers bar for the walk he was delicious like an appetite for the ice cream that we bought we bought ice cream and he got an ice cream bar and appetizers man after my own heart that is it was delicious I've got no regrets no regrets that is exactly how I would have done as right after we had to Blackie celebrities take their eyes power that seems like the kind of thing Drake would do who know we gotta get uncle Nate we gotta get I'm going to clear the suffers uncle Nate what is a year a step it's really hard to explain we found that to be true selves own thank you but essentially we connection at all to the basket at and you're holding the ball and you do something of a crossover step shoot shoot the defender and a leading one direction but it's really an awkward move so like it's sort of like the opposite of like a jab step to get a guy because when your jab stepping you're usually just going like comments about your body is going whichever way your jabbing but when he stepped you're actually jabbing opposite of the moment some of your body so it like EE confuses the defender and then you and then also uses his off balance enough that you can you can go up but it requires an incredible amount of coordination and worked out a lot of guys just can't Polack it's it's it's it's very tricky I don't really it's hard to explain exactly what it is you have to you too but I need tells real quick what you think about lebron James going to LA well I had a horrible night last night I mean I really I lock closure I have people of my Twitter telling me it's going to be okay and not to lose your cool lebron %HESITATION signed a four year contract with the Los Angeles Lakers and it's not about the fact that he signed a contract with a different team I'm not a cafe animal the brown family follow up anywhere I only he Jersey and a cat Jersey with his name on it LA is a huge market whatever it's gonna be great for his family the problem is they did not immediately build anything around him that's good brought on lance even stand who is like a garbage pail kid of a psycho who the little carbon dioxide in the bronze here in the middle of a very important game several years ago he's like a board and lebron wound me he blew it can you please tell what is blowing carbon dioxide in his ear is that a euphemism carbon dioxide is what is what actually comes out your mouth when you exhale okay she leaned over in the middle of a huge game they were coming out of a time not a playoff game where lebron's playoff life was in jeopardy inexplicably one of those games and lance Stephenson was guarding him in doing a decent job of guarding him in that game and coming out of a timeout he leaned over and blew it is here like softly and tenderly blew air into his years and then it's like you get is a great video and yes love it I love Ron just days staring like you didn't let but like this dude is like the ultimate lebron troll all through his career and gives them headaches media we'd look Ron sizeable Lakers they go get this guy and I think it's because we're brought was like I don't want to have to deal with this guy on the opposite side of the court as me he's not good and he's not going to help this team and he's a garbage pail easy garbage and also the other thing that he does he does this quite often I cannot get past is blowing in the air thing he doesn't say anything he doesn't he bends over and just like you know how like in knowing it would be if like someone gave you like a wet Willie who I would smack in the worse I would literally punch him in the face real that's what everyone wanted to do was punch minutes space will probably just stayed with us great you because he's a pro professional like I want to actually kill this guy he's he's a professional is the best professional what did lebron due to him he must have done something is he just the best kill them you just kill them it's just that he's the best and and lance Stephenson is one of these guys like everyone in the NBA has an ego I don't mean this in a negative way but all these guys if you think about it were the best in their grade school they were the best in their high school they were the best on their college team they were the best on their AAU team so when they get to the NBA it doesn't really register them I'm not as good as lebron James these guys absolutely believes they are the best movies haven't gotten their teens yet yeah yeah exactly like everyone's like I used to work for ESPN a little bit like bike blogging and I covered a lot of games down in Orlando when I was there I talked to a lot of players and I talk a lot better sheer and I think it's a time it was something like white Howard was was maybe gonna sign with a team with another big center and I was like does that scare you you know what that does that worry you to have those two guys in the same and the answer was unanimous and it wasn't like just the sound by these guys like what no like nothing scares me like I can play with anyone like this I mean the best and they really do think that so that's the way that people aren't you must have to think that yeah I mean otherwise you're not you can't get to that level yeah you know we don't think about because we really as fans we see more objectively were like yeah of course lebron is way better than expired of course this guy's better just buyers those guys in that moment they've never been told or believe anything except I'm actually Bob ask if not one or one of the best if not the best players work so there's that mentality still like when they go up so it's not that we're going to have to do anything to have missed that late Stevenson is looking at the mere at night when he goes on to his million dollar condo in Indianapolis and he's like dude I could stop this guy and he has a game where like you actually maybe has twenty points and maybe get the steel off lebron and he's like that just like reaffirms that you know what I'm saying me he lives in Indianapolis wise you live in Indianapolis lightly played for the Pacers arm the Pacers yeah are there soccer team they're they're not they're they're basket during the World Cup right the Senate in the World Cup states don't have teams that go to the world okay contact contact fun fact I sling Iceland in nearly beat Argentina in the World Cup do you know how many people live in Iceland three hundred thousand and they feel that if they feel that a world class soccer team that almost be Lino messy the entire United States did not field a world class soccer team that could almost be messy but I slammed it there are more people living in like Glendale California than there are in the entire country of Iceland and they feel that a world class soccer team how is that possible I don't know but I was going to ask you because I don't so I don't follow the World Cup closely but I'm curious if you look that up another thing you should look up is how many guys on that roster live in Iceland like I'm curious I'm genuinely curious going back to their home country okay that's fine but they're still Icelandic how much do they have to be I don't know but he just like a quarter and still choose to go play price I don't know that could still be true but if we can hide the ethnically connected to a country to play for the team you don't have to be right like the Olympics I external Chinese figure skaters the place that compete for America okay then fine if you can extrapolate out a certain amount of nationality that would be even more true with America right where is our World Cup team yet dum dum the more money you that's like Akron Ohio fielding an NBA team that beats the cavs in the finals not exactly how how I don't know the World Cup is confounding to me like I like I I sort of I sort of just like where we are now because like when did that game happened it wasn't in one of the early rounds where it's just like points that that you have to accumulate yeah I know I don't even know that much no this was this was a points game this was a points game what you're probably out now yeah I'm barely even paying attention I just thought it was a fun fact I see I don't know because in those points games I feel like people are let off the gas a little bit because they're like calculating we don't need to go balls out for this game because all we need is action on to the next round but then I don't like the idea of elimination games either because it's like the NC double a tournament and anyone can beat anyone like you can get a fluke goal I don't I didn't see the game I don't know if I slammed scored loopholes I don't STT messy place for Argentina right he's been getting a lot of slack right for being like kind of a fraud or not playing well you never plan that will help them yeah so I mean I don't know like I feel like an elimination like either World Cup games are just like unpredictable and I don't like killing March madness I yeah I'm more of a series guy I might let these things play against each other three to seven times then we actually knows better and of course I think like I don't know because I actually don't know but I assuming Argentina would probably win in a five game series Overijssel neat let's get a quick hot take on are you coming to Los Angeles to see lebron play or not well I fired off a treat this morning I'm extremely disgruntled about the move people are telling me that he's taken the long con he's building for next year and the year after that I think I live in New York City and I can't afford to go to our next game and the next part arable but I can't afford to get in the stadium eyes I'd love to be scary I think I would love to come to staples center and see what Ron and I follow him anywhere and I tweeted this morning that even though I'm disgruntled I'm I'm all and I'm on board the Lakers fan you know don't ask me don't ask me because I've gone on record to say that I'm a lebron fan so I follow him everywhere not just a band wagon or a life long you choose in a long time ago two thousand two thousand and one I think so have you covered up your cast had to yet I just got a King James that do but check this out I was the I saw online yesterday that a season ticket %HESITATION season ticket prices jumped already %HESITATION for staples that are like fifteen hundred dollars like my gosh %HESITATION so I mean there's just no way I just there's no way I could afford to go insane that so much money so if someone buys me a ticket I will absolutely be there if I can somehow figure out a way to finance the ticket I may do it I would love to see what Ron play at staples center maybe not this year because the team is garbage but maybe like in two years I'm done with long wall of stealing good yes on the four year contract he's great got his championship squad I save up a little bit of money and I get to go to that's all from me for now I hung up on %HESITATION he's there to get in the weeds in this isn't really a sports podcast you now you just hung up on him Coulter I just I I felt like he was gonna take like another ten minutes to wrap up the conversation it was so much sports my head was starting to her I know that's why I had to I just had to get out of there you know so much about sports it's intimidating and my crazy I really was a little worried that we were gonna end up taking another hour to finish that conversation was I was trying to soak in as much of that as I could I love that guy I will come back we'll come back hopefully it'll pick up next time I don't know man that was pretty rude we'll see if I had a ISIS okay speaking of lebron moving speaking of you know Drake and they they I mean that monologue is incredible %HESITATION or whatever you call that act it's in I think it's a message to the haters that's what that that is yeah it's pre it's it's don't you think you have a little for what is he afraid of though is you're freed of his recent success I mean I I because I was I was looking at the lyrics for that previously %HESITATION short it seems like he's terrified of success or what success entails being in the spotlight yeah people hating him people being haters so he's got to respond to them I don't know I guess I can can you have to respond to that I mean that just seems that's a very good question I don't know I really don't know drink your drink you have a jet to yeah acts you don't have to respond to people who call you stupid right now or say you're a bad rapper yeah it seems so but it seems like the entire album is about that at least from what I can tell us into enough of it I just heard those sweet sweet beats and I was seduced the other thing about this drink the drink liner notes is that it sounds a lot like what Kanye west said about himself I like the old kind yeah you know he he referred to the criticism before other people could get changed and somehow his musical style had changed her he's pre responding to the haters quote unquote and tracking who has already been accused of copying people seem like copy Tonya west at this yeah I don't know what that yeah I way we will have to have a a rap will have an address on on we'll get great I can get Draco column Jersey if you're listening had us up I don't know I am I can relate to the sense of of being afraid of the possibility of being seduced by success and and sort of becoming addicted to affirmation now right that there's something about obscurity I I there's part of me that like I do if I'm honest I would love to make movies that everyone watches and and become famous you know vinous I I want that and I'm sure you you know anyone can relate to that I want that for you well thank you John and but there's also a part of me that thinks I'm probably better off being a little bit of a career failure and being stable as a human being you know and I will and I hope I can have both of those things but it scares the crap out of me trying to have both the idea of trying to have both I don't know maybe I'm overreacting maybe I'm putting the cart way before the donkey you know I think we'll just have to explore that I think we will maybe we'll talk about that next week next week we'll check in in here what's with the what has happened since we last yeah I hope we'll have some more progress for you I think you need to create some drama to have something to talk about yeah I think it's time to start poking the bear if you know what I mean fire this casting director get a new one check it out did this casting director gave me the quickest read I've a sheet she read my script in under a week that is miraculous no one ever does that I'm very thankful even if she says no at this point she did not waste my time and I appreciate that you got to get this girl to let you use your name so we can give her a shout out I saw so many nice things about her I know she seems great I mean we'll see if she wants to do the project she doesn't a complete understand sometimes you just can't do everything sure %HESITATION great wall John this is this is been a real pleasure I'm super excited about about next week I hope of some good updates and I hope you have a great time quick tell everybody what you're doing in New York what's in New York are you there I'm here for the Nathan's hot dog eating contest on enter your former champion drinking gallons of water dipping hot dogs in that water and eating it I'm here for a visit to see shows and soak up the culture you know I live in the south now so you get it's like it's like fifty you know I get them clear my system out I got it yeah talks by coming up to the north and although you know Manhattan in particular is like a gated community for rich people now it's so obnoxious there's no counter culture going on it's Disney land for rich people it's like %HESITATION when you go to Harry potter world and everything looks like it's made of stone but it's actually made of its owner of daily bar it sounds like I got stuck on it's a fun place to beautiful place you can go to parks if you have kids it's great you can you know there's tons of free stuff to do everybody's friendly for the most part everything safe in Manhattan but it just it feels like Disneyland and then you come out to like a story %HESITATION which is tons of Greeks tons of real restaurants people trying to sue scrape out a living %HESITATION and it's just it has a completely different feel it's really a story is great I love it excellent alright well I hope you have a great time and %HESITATION will catch up and we talked about it thanks for tuning in for episode two of I guess we'll do it that way today shows produced and edited by say a small entry music was composed by Carl Cadwell and recorded by the distribution outro music by Tom policy in Mexico our cover art was designed by an eight year Donna this is been a production of their studio just can it's your whole
July 10, 2018
Show Notes00:00 - Introductions2:00 - Our nameless cat producer bailed on the show, so Jon and Zay are looking for a new producer. Applications, which are now open to dogs as well, can be submitted here4:00 - What the hell is this show, anyway?Fancy Rhino // The commercial production company Isaiah started with Drew Belz.Previous Projects produced by IsaiahHUNTER GATHERER // The OrchardTrailer // New York Times Review // Watch it onlineDAYVEON // FilmRiseTrailer // LA Times Review // Watch it onlineNEVER GOIN' BACK // A24Trailer // Variety Review // See it in theaters August 3, 2018!Shorts Written and Directed by IsaiahThree YearsChattanooga On SaleBroken Mast11:00 - Isaiah talks about the the plot of ROLLERS.Sandtown Children of Praise Choir W/ Toby MacDC Talk’s Jesus Freak Music Video // Video of DC Talk LiveVintage Fancy Rhino video from May 11, 2012We used to make a video every Friday just for fun. We called them Fancy FridaysJon’s Favorite Movie - 8½ // Watch it hereThe Face Melting Scene from Raiders of the Lost ArkCredits and Personal Links:A Mama Bear Studios Production // Mama Bear Studios WebsiteProduced and Edited by: Isaiah SmallmanExecutive Producer: Jon SchimpfOpening music: "The Get Down," Produced by Summer DregsOutro music: Composed and Recorded by Tom Paulus and Max BelzCover Art by: Nate GiordanoShow Website | ThatWay.fmShow Twitter | @ThatWayPodJon TwitterIsaiah InstagramIsaiah IMDBIsaiah’s Twitter (which he never uses)Isaiah LinkedInLonger Podcast Description“I Guess We’ll Do it That Way” is a weekly conversational comedy show where Isaiah Smallman and Jon Schimpf talk about life, movies and Zay's progress as he directs his first feature film, Rollers, a dramatic comedy about a struggling concert venue.When they're not on a random tangent, Jon grills Isaiah about the actual process of making an independent movie. How do you get actors to sign on? Where do you get money? What do producers do? What happens if the movie's terrible?! At the end of the day there are things Isaiah doesn't know... like will this movie even get made? But that's the real fun of the show. Because when you're making a movie you start with a vision and you make a plan. Then you realize your plan was never actually going to work and you begin the real job: making choices, finding compromises, and trying to build your vision in spite of the constant hailstorm of reality raining down on your parade.Episodes of “I Guess We’ll Do it That Way” will also feature:Interviews with members of the Rollers teamQ&A with listenersInterviews with industry experts (lots of famous people)There might even be the occasional movie review!TRANSCRIPT (Probably a mess)so I have to say this is a a small man and you're listening to I guess we'll do it that way podcasts right call my buddy John each week to check in on my progress as a direct my first feature film is presented by mama bear studios our mission is to create entertaining works of art that explore our humanity alright reserves of one I hear you Monday of baby all the early in his name **** yeah this sounds amazing although quit bumping your Mike bumpy make dumb person what's gonna my men I'm I'm just pumped about this park as did it is such a pleasure to be speaking with you at this very moment I can't think of anything else I'd rather be doing a great deal think were a little late to the podcast game that did I don't know is there an end to the podcast came I mean that implies that there's a that there's a finite and to it we're gonna have headsets on sitting on a couch is next we're not gonna be talking to each other so yeah I think the podcast dies mmhm VR headsets or you know whatever whatever the next thing is we're gonna be there's gonna be robots that simulate podcasts me like OD one funny podcast cool these two robots are hilarious and they're way better than any two real people do you think that would ever happen absolute did they make videos have you seen these videos that are Amazon add videos they pull out I dont tent yeah do that it's completely automated they they have an algorithm that pulls out like the top ten things in a category being sold on Amazon and the A. I. makes an ad like it makes in a video at it's unreal that scares me a little bit yes alright let's move on %HESITATION John would you like to tell everyone who you are I'm little Johnny bear and let's do this thing that is only there are you the Big Bear the Papa bear mama bear the baby there and how do you like your porridge got a little bit of a crisis man I'm I'm the Big Bear here but our little friend are little furry friend get reunited just less than an hour ago with her real mom little Kitty cat is going to produce the show I'm doing it on the fly myself she stepped outside this afternoon and who should be they're kidding me now who should be there but her actual mother I'm pretty sure it was her mother send to cool full grown cat they met they bonded immediately and %HESITATION she couldn't be less interested in me anymore she still coming food but we're in crisis mode here man I'm gonna go ahead and say this right now and I'm not a litigious person but I didn't sign a contract with her so that she could just walk out the middle of the show I think we got a case against the mom cat a really well I guess we gotta find another cat to produce the show because I have all the controls were configured for cat paws there are so many so many stray cats running around here and I'm not healthy one extremely she may want to train another cat I may I may I don't want to train another cat to be a producer I was kind of like all those years of training I don't know if I want to go through that again this is the level that it is the thirty seven minutes we spent on Tuesday training her most of it was a sexual harassment class the cats get feisty you got it you really got to make sure that they understand what boundaries are they start to breed just about the same time as their eyes fully open the just immediately start banging out our cats hang in baby cats haven't baby cats it's a wild cat rolled out there it's a cruel maybe we should try to talk you know what I cannot imagine a dog walking out on us maybe we should train a dog to be a producer they are much much more loyal yeah well so this is a this is the show I guess we'll do it that way %HESITATION John I feel like maybe you should take a quick stab at explaining to our many many listeners mom what the show is and why they're listening to us right now days working on a movie and we decided that we're going to get together and discuss that and any other topic related to it and we're gonna let you the millions and millions of Americans and internationals listening right now you're going to get a sneak peek a glimpse into our conversations billions potentially I'm making a movie as you pointed out I'm excited about making that movie I've been making movies for awhile I've produced a number of movies but I've never directed a feature of Bob directed lots of other stuff but I am excited about actually chronicling a little bit of that process because I actually know surprisingly little about certain aspects of the process even if some of the movies that I've helped produce because things just flip by you know and there's not always time to actually like going to death and that's the kind of stuff that I think maybe someone would be interested in listening to there's one guy in Wisconsin right now who is now make it for that one guy I will do teddy Bronson this is for you baby sure voice I love you're wrong Sheboygan strong for ever thank you teddy Bronson for being our one fan I hope that this is an informative and fun experience for you and please donate teddy teddy we were desperate our cat just walked out on a steady we got to train a dog now right after we spay and or neutered that animal and that's going to cost more money teddy we're in a tight spot says that before we start you need to tell me and everyone or anyone listening what you do how you got here why you're making a movie and while you don't trust me barely are are one producer already ran out your fifty percent of this operation so you're fifty percent to blame okay I'll send you my resume I studied English at a precise TGS unheard of Christian liberal arts college in the south east I did not go to film school I thought about it but I wasn't gonna get in any the good ones and I study English read some excellent excellent books like %HESITATION I don't know you're struggling to come up with one title I skipped a lot of them I hear I read a lot of Shakespeare I read a lot of Shakespeare I skipped a lot of Shakespeare no I said the English I I started making stuff and like middle school you know I started just with a handy cam and all but %HESITATION starting in in college I started a Film Festival with some some folks including to rebels who I then right when I was finishing college I started a commercial production company with and we kind of grew that over the years you know a I guess over the course of like four years it got to you got pretty big we had about maybe twenty people or so working for us fall time including some freelancers and on top of that and that was when I kind of started to realize that I actually want to make movies and not make advertising for the rest of my life and I started talking to some investors in the process actually I should say we also produced a feature documentary that was set in Chattanooga it's called dhimmi world and in the process they started talking to some investors that we met very early on in life the company within the first like nine months of starting it that was the company's fancy right now by the way you can look it up and will put a link in the show notes but basically I started getting ancestor realizing that my true passion was making movies and I've had to figure out kind of way to do that I start talking to our investors and %HESITATION they were like yeah we think the idea that you have for kind of how to set up this this company is a really good one %HESITATION let's try some stuff in it but you know we can talk at a different time about kind of what the actual model was but basically yes we started %HESITATION producing producing movies and writing about scripts in the very first one we did was call hunter gather directed by a guy named Josh Lucy and it went to south by which was cool and you can actually watch that on I tunes and all the other things that flexes well willing to it the next one we did was call Davey on that was at Sundance and also got a theatrical release and is also on Netflix and everything iTunes obviously I'd love for you to buy on iTunes but you don't have to and then the most recent thing that we produced is called never gone back that was at Sundance this past year and it's getting released on August third in theaters so that's kind of like a little bit of my background and in the meantime I've been writing and producing a lot of other stuff that's just still you know kind of %HESITATION in process so can we find something that you have written and directed our yeah absolutely %HESITATION yeah I'll link to that's a great question I've done a lot of shorts %HESITATION there's probably two or three that I am most likely to to to want to show off broken masters one three years is another one and %HESITATION I like chatting on sale to diversity training on sale all Ali I have fun but I will it's very goofy it's very goofy I'll plow put on the album on the links did you make all these in Chattanooga yeah yeah I did and where do you live now do you live in Chattanooga I live in Las Vegas sunny beautiful seventy seven degrees Hollywood belly of the beast just soak in it and I'm looking at a palm tree right now how long have you been it is it is the ability to be six months so not too long not too long nam of fresh cookie I'm like still melting a little bit what's the biggest difference between the beautiful beautiful southeast and sunny California they you know it's kind of similar everyone in that you know there's a lot of crazy conservatives in the southeast that want to like split off their states yeah you know kind of from the union you're talking about me right now is that what you want John I'm not really part of a bullet Johnny part of a militia yesterday now not yet but I'm interested which one would you join if you joined one I'd make one o'toole I can not for it like and not crazy racist militia like a just a true equal opportunity libertarian militia I'm trying to turn Tennessee into New Jersey that's my that's my one more malicious goal as you could just move to New Jersey although I don't know why he'd ever do that a million years beautiful state is that mean no no no it's %HESITATION it's a misunderstood state you know it's some it's because I have some pretty rolling hills beaches and the people are just lovely famous for their hospitality just like the south have you met Bruce Springsteen and if so what did he say to him every New Jersey and when you're born meets bird Springsteen it's state law you have to meet him I shook his hand and said hello Sir he before my circumcision he's gotten pretty good at that then it's New Jersey think he holds the work he might hold the world record for most circumcisions performed is tied yeah when did they enact this law %HESITATION whenever he was born nineteen sixty seven I'm young circumcisions it wasn't very good when he started cemex said says eight what's the process of this film right now okay stage of the of the film are you in right now the film's co rollers I scribe server that film is called rollers rollers it's ours it's about rollers to ecstasy what is it about it's a comedy and it is about a historic concert venue called rollers this story kind of follows the three main characters Rufus Maddie and Jane roof isn't matter your brother and sister they bought rollers sort of saved it from the the jaws of real estate developers who were going to tear down the river do that because their parents died and they came in to not ton of money but enough to sort of get into some trouble put a down payment on this place and we can revitalize it and they have a number of really great years a lot of really great stuff happens a lot of bands kind of come out and and get big you know by sort of starting there but with the story mostly takes place about ten years after they buy it and things are not great Maddie's ready to move on with their life Ruth this is probably wants to move on with his life but cannot really allow himself to do that because he spent too much of his time in an emotional energy and invest too much of his identity and and building this place and now you know meeting failure is %HESITATION is not really an option in Jane his best friend who has a lot of history with kind of comes back and is this drawn from a personal story do you have some experience at a venue or something I do you know I don't have specific this experience at venue I did perform a lot as a kid I was in a well acquire it was it was different I was in a gospel choir we we we toward all over the country you can look it up sand town children of praise I should link to a video verbal you saying in this in this choir I did for years I grew up in west Baltimore there are we cut we cut rates on them loaded when I went to said small Christian liberal arts college I met people who I did not know who knew who I was now when they when they heard that like not my name but like when they heard that I was in sand town there like on my gosh I saw you when I was eleven that's insane isn't that weird did you make any money from it now it was like a nonprofit us somebody was made now there's no money there is no money unbelievable it was you had some notoriety had some celebrity in this yeah we performed at some some big festivals and Bonner and I think the biggest crowd was seventy three thousand people and that's not a joke whoa that is not a joke isn't that crazy that isn't insane that's a lot of people this artist that was kind of helping us a little bit gave us like half of his headlining slot who is the artist Michael W. Toby mac did your our DC talk of baby who hasn't Jesus freak baby Jesus freak yeah I remember how that song goes off and not really actually give me a lack of trying to remember we should hold up on you should pull it up that is going to bring back horrifying memories of other pulled up right now I've just being proselytized around a campfire by an over eager kid who went to a college like we did yeah that was never quite ours style hold you have altar calls did you have an altar call where you and so it was not like that it was very poppy it was kind of fun preaching is there preaching interspersed yeah can you hear that of this bring back so much sadness what are they doing right now one of these guys I really don't know rumbling down the apartment next to Los Angeles maybe we should have Toby mac on the show we think of that is you still perform I don't know let's find out there talking about what he's up to Toby we know your live shows give us a call tunes retired to the song it features this man so may I politely anyway having kids do you think were converted because of that song who dozens I don't know if that was their audience was that their audience I'm sure some kid look through the liner notes and converted okay moment of truth here hit me I really hope that the movie that I'm making I hope it's really good I hope it's not the kind of thing that anyone like looks back on twenty years from now and thinks yeah he tried that's the risk you take I hope people look back on and they're like damn that's good yeah that's the risk you take that is the risk I take it's it's a very scary risk I'm terrified actually I am I'm not terrified to the extent that I'm not gonna do it but it's it's scary I mean I've already put so much effort because okay so I I don't have a super personal connection to venues specifically right but I a lot of the emotional stuff does come from very personal place which is a I didn't you know this is weird I didn't totally realize this until I was writing my director statement which is a whole thing you know like when you're trying to pitch the movie around you put a book together and typically you included director statement it's kind of like this is why I'm writing this or this is why I think I'm the director that should be making this and I was thinking about it I was like man this whole thing is about letting go of something right and I knew kind of that all of the the the real root of it was me letting go of the business that I started you know this business fancy right now I had to I had to let go in order to kind of start mama bear numbers that obviously the production company that I now you know run that is %HESITATION you know it's producing this podcast and all that kind of stuff but thanks guy had to I had to leave the answer right now and I will and I chose to leave it right before someone who I will not name but an executive that we kind of hired to come in and run the thing nearly killed it heartland and that was it was Harvey strikes again biggest mistake of your career you can say that again he was toxic three months ago but he was cheap so everyone knew and now it was we thought maybe he had repented and we were wrong by low side that's what you guys thought yeah we bought low and sold lower but we thought we had this other guy I'm sure if you really want to find out who it is you can %HESITATION he did not do a good job he was very bad at running our company and she almost ruined it why do thanks to him in the first place well because we were we were ready to go to the next level and frankly felt like we were not the people that were capable of maybe doing that from a business standpoint from a business standpoint this guy was a hot shot like big time executive creative director vice president level at a major global agency and we thought if anybody can start locking down major deals because we were doing a lot of work with a fortune five hundred companies like Nike and office depot and Mohawk flooring and lodge cast iron and Disney at times and we thought how do we go from where we are to the next level we gotta get a big we gotta get a Big Boy in here we gonna get a grown up in the mix how old are you guys at this time twenty five babies babies little we've already been doing it for four years at that point that's amazing that so young we were babies and you guys were making money right you're making money you're doing well yeah we were making money we were getting rich we're making money we remain you had a successful business we were mostly reinvesting the money back into the business to grow that's how we got big you know right but it was a legit business yeah and and we so I don't think you guys are men and I like the halls yeah we were we were doing a good job and then I thought this is when you know drew my business partner that there's another thing that he's kind of still noodling on %HESITATION which I'll let him talk about one day but basically the idea was we are gonna make movies you know and this guy came along it was like holy smokes we were just gonna kinda leave the business **** nilly but like if anybody can handle this thing it's this guy right that was not the case but by the time it became clear what was going on we had already started my where we were already in the middle of producing hunter gather we had already done a bunch of other stuff invested money in things and I wasn't couldn't just walk away and so it was a very difficult process of of drew and I and our festers and everyone involved or or keep employees and everybody kind of coming to grips with that where the business was and I'm happy to say you know it it survived it's doing really well it's great it's much smaller than it was which I think is what it always should have been it's not that we won't grow again but I think we learned some really hard lessons and we've got an incredible core team and it's a great place and I was actually just back there a few days ago and in Chattanooga and it's a phenomenal business I mean they're working with huge great companies and and making really terrific work but it also just wasn't who I was you know you don't want getting you dump this character %HESITATION we got rid of them well we dumped him so hard do and he went back to sterling in brown or wherever he worked what happened yeah Gail who knows who even knows I don't know he's there certainly not in jail he's prime making beaucoup money somewhere just raking it in but the movie is really it it's it's totally fictionalized but it is really rooted in those emotions of being like whoa I weigh over invested my identity in this place I can't allow something to fail because that will ruin me and that's not a particularly good way to live your life I'm gonna throw that out there is not a the same thing that with this movie though are you putting all your bad year eggs in this basket your self worth is tied up in this I'm trying every single day to not do it but you're gonna be exposed in a way it's either good or bad you're gonna be exposed as a good writer a good director war or a not bad director yeah I'm absolutely can be exposed and that's what's scary but I think I think I've grown a lot I think I have made a lot of progress in in the sense of growing up in and and realizing that you know it's funny actually I had a great conversation and and this conversation actually was very thematically relevant for the movie I had a great conversation with someone who I don't actually know that well it was a a woman who was married to a guy that we were interviewing for a job this is pride two years ago now it was it was a lesson that I I don't actually remember exactly what it was and I usually not even involved in the interview process but this guy was like and he still working with us and I want to say who it is but like great guy he was up and we were having dinner we rang out and I was explaining how I thought about roller and I was like I really got to make this movie I have to make it it's inside of me I've been wanting to make a movie since I was like twelve I mean literally I've been wanting to make a movie since I was twelve is this written at this point of the script is done script is tight it is is it done tight is it done two years ago when you have the conversation with this guy now no it was not it's just an idea rattling around and it was a hot it was that it was a pilot but I I knew I wanted to make a different movie actually at this point that was what so the process of roller I I wrote a different movie maybe three and a half four years ago and that was a big kind of action movie and then I came up with a great idea for how to scale back make its models like that's gonna be the first movie I direct right I rewrote it I really like it I'm actually still working on it to this day %HESITATION as we'll see as we kind of we eat we should do a whole episode on just sort of script development but %HESITATION in and all the pitfalls and and challenges and maybe we can have somebody on to talk about it but basically I re wrote it and I was still like you know this isn't small enough for me to make as a first time director or if if I if I did pull it off it would take a very long time right and I decided to shift gears and others pilot that road rollers and I was like you know I think of an internist this pilot in a movie because I was I was talking about different people in the industry about producing a different networks and and I just realized that frankly and it's not the point as a producer or director or as a writer where I can just snap my fingers get a TV show me I mean I can't snap my fingers get a movie made either not yet but I definitely cannot get a TV show it right now and so I was like you know I wonder if there's another idea in there and as soon as I as soon as I open myself up to that I realized that it wanted end in part of the reason I think it wasn't a good TV shows because it had an ending right and I just cranked on it and %HESITATION but %HESITATION the conversation it was incredibly mean and forgot about the conversation did you pitch this pilot two companies like Netflix Amazon not %HESITATION not Netflix or Amazon because I just didn't have any particular like contacts at that point who like rich too but yeah like networks like IFC and write a lot mostly but mostly a lot of production companies to do TV or her and a lot of them were like look like this is really good but we just feel like you need you know we we need to bring on a you know an executive producer or director and frankly we've got other projects that are higher priority is just not gonna happen right now calls in six months and I was like alright to get it but I'm not gonna wait around you know I gotta I gotta make some stuff in the future we need to drill down on this in another episode we have to talk about this because just the idea of you sitting in a room with guys from IFC like I need to know what that looks like what it feels like I could I think experience that so few people have and it may have people are curious about but we got to skip over that the conversation you had this conversation two years ago with this guy tell us about it yet does it was with his wife actually we were all sitting at dinner and I had a couple drinks you know it's kind of vented not venting I was I was sharing baring my soul little bit and saying I I'm I I I had this moment of realization where realized movies and this is kind of what this podcast is about movies take a very very long time to make and if I want audiences real people watching this movie in the next five years I got to start now I got to figure out what that movie is now which seems crazy but I was expressing how much anxiety that was causing me I think I wasn't I I frankly I think I was in a much less healthy emotional place at that point and she looked at me and she said that's great man you seem super talented and I really hope that works out but you need to know that if you never make a movie in your whole life it's okay you're enough like your family will not hate you and you are still valuable as a human being even if you never make that movie and you stood up and you walked out she she just dropped the Mike and I was like no they did it struck the EAP it's very true it hit me yeah of course it's true but dude I needed that so bad I needed to hear that so bad and and and that's actually what rollers is about I mean I didn't even know that at the time and so there's a it's okay if I let something go it's okay if I fail it's okay if I try things life is bigger than that life is bigger than success lies life is is about more than than the things to accomplish and I'm getting all cheesy but it's real and that's honestly what the movie's about the movie is about that movies about you make choices sometimes they work out sometimes they don't work out any move on with your life and the only thing you really need to worry about is whether or not you are like loving people in your life taking care of your **** if you do that the rest of it configures itself out you can be ambitious you can you can accomplish things you know these are wise words thanks I don't know I guess the reason I'm rambling about this is because I really think that that section with the shows about the show I want to be totally raw to be totally real with the three and a half people that are gonna listen to this thing the half as a baby that's inside its mother's womb while she listens to it on speaker phone and I wanna be super real and I wanna be like there can be times where I'm like this movie's not gonna get made frankly this movie night might not get made I do not know how this podcast or this aspect of the podcast I don't know if the podcast will will end with the movie I I think we're gonna find lots of stuff to talk about but like I don't know if I'm gonna make them if you're not but that to me is interesting I mean I I lots of movies don't get made and I could go through lots of other examples in and maybe we can devote some episodes of these types of things of movies that we've developed that have not got made and probably won't ever get made and frankly rollers could be in the same situation I mean where it's at now it's in a promising position somewhere raise the money that I somewhere on a yacht you %HESITATION in Arab financier is pulling his hair out when he heard you say that this film might not get made he's he's Russian did don't tell anybody but he's a Russian guy I treated him the movie for some dirt and %HESITATION right now I can hear the dial toe right now if the movie doesn't get made all it means is a better podcast right now I kind of hope it doesn't cause it would be such a better podcast because I mean the chances of me like getting famous because this movie other so slim but there is a chance so others chan there's always there's always saying there's a chance John what's your favorite movie my favorite my favorite movie movie is it Fellini's eight and a half at such a pretentious answer but it's it was all it's so it's a great movie and it's you know it's metaphysical it's existential it's crazy it's a great film %HESITATION what's what's your favorite part of it half of the credits at the end you know I'm no I'm kidding can you describe them the I think they're black and white and they they're moving %HESITATION it's a lot of text the but I all I do is watch kids movies man that's only watch them like a little kid so much in like the Incredibles with stuff over and over again what's the what's it was a movie that you've watched recently with the kids we just less than twenty four hours hours ago we watched Steven Spielberg and George Lucas is raiders of the Lost Ark old baby it was intense I don't remember seeing it as a child I saw as a child but I barely remember it you know there are a few images I have in my head %HESITATION when they open the ark in people's faces melt I remember that vividly to the ending is a little much I remember it vividly and that the guy getting chopped up in the air in the propeller yeah oh might these shots are shocking images and now I'm John your kids are too young for this scarred for life did they sleep last night barely almost not at all of men just a mix of cranberry juice and you just woke up at four in the yeah just to shouting shrimp what term trembling in fear these movies are what were they doing when the guys face melted I mean cried they were crying there crying while I am not so good I'm kidding they loved it I mean that affects you we had a discussion after the how how do they do this because the kids actually what why because the kids actually thought a human was being murdered they thought yeah they act they ask me anything how many real people died to make that movie they did not did they actually asked me movie magic baby yeah it's it's a tough one because I'm I'm tori I don't want to spoil the illusion for them but I also want them to sleep sometime in the future I'm they were so they were just going to be an intense experience I mean that's intense thinking that you're watching a real human die an actual death yeah it's horrifying that is very intense and it makes purplish explanation I just let's see how much you know about movies what was her explanation for how they did it well I just explain to them that in the world there are people that are worth living in people that aren't worth living so they take the people that aren't worth living and I put it in movies and kill them for real and fill it that they were fine with it they thought that was fine you told them about the expendable people that something that's for the tell people until later they they got a quick early lesson is like telling about the birds and the bees to San I'm I have a whole stand up that that idea about the birds and the bees I'm not gonna do it now but you'll have to do it at some point one day you'll have to sneak it in and you perform this on stage %HESITATION at yuk yuks in Chattanooga what it was called he yuck X. %HESITATION %HESITATION JJ's barking likes on despite I performed at all of them what kind of audiences did you have %HESITATION so small the service now many standing ovations did you get %HESITATION sold so many zero that has to be that one of the scariest types of performance right if you you you know that's why did and nothing else it's hideous that's why I did it because I I I think I needed it well first of all this is actually kind of wonder the podcast not to be funny but because I like the idea of putting work out more often break you know as a filmmaker if you are Rankin I mean really crank and you put out a movie every eighteen months very few people achieve that pace and again we'll talk throughout this movie about this podcast about why that's the case but I mean that is Woody Allen writes and directs movie a year lover hate him it's crazy but also half as movie sucked and that nobody's beating that pace right and as an independent filmmaker it's not even close to eighteen months it's probably more unless you just making teeny tiny movies with some people have figured out a way to do but I was like I got I got up I'm a creative person I can't make stuff more often you know I can't just do ninety minutes of content every eighteen months that's lame yeah you know and so I was doing stand up and it was hard I I did not get I I started getting more laughs but man it was brutal I got a lot of blank stares I mean does is just part of the process where you do when you bomb what what's the proper have you must keep movin all have a bomb I've mostly bombed what do you do what mostly bomb John I'm not I'm not saying I'm surprised I just want to know what the process is like did you see stand up there and you keep telling jokes until your time's up and is have you been jeered at have you been screamed at Yale that heckled no not heckled as much I mean here's the thing though JJ's the audiences for an open Mike did this place was Poppin I mean there there were typically audiences of twenty five to fifty people and same with comedy catch quite a few people showed up and I actually got bigger laughs sometimes at the bigger crowds you know because I was telling okay jokes I just wasn't a good performer you know I I've been writing for so long that I think I was writing decent jokes but I just my pace wasn't right I just hadn't found my voice yet and I think I started to find my voice towards the end I realized you know I'm spending twenty five hours a week in a bar I don't need to do this you know like I I I just I I I guess I should get better writing scripts you know I'm not going to be a professional stand up I'm a screenwriter didn't help writer you think I'll be spending twenty five hours a week writing I think I'm really glad I did it I'd like to do it again do you think a chain but I can't change your personality at all to it to just I think it's a lot more resilient yeah yeah I realized I I I realized I can fail in front of people and it's fine I go home and no big deal well we're doing it again for a reason right now I know people are gonna hate this so much did there I can't wait to get trolled so hard my friend lost his license in Mexico and somebody found it and put it up on a Facebook page that mocks Americans who lose their licenses in Mexico I don't even find out about his phaser seems like the kind of thing that would be totally seeker yes I don't know someone sent it to him and he showed it to me and it was just you know hundreds of insults hurled at him in Spanish that sounds incredible contents I want to find this website I'll send you a link in the show knows my friend's home baby he men are shown a target beefy says a we're gonna check in together in a week and we're going to continue this conversation and you're going to tell us what what are you gonna be telling us next week where we can be talking about my dad I don't know I mean I think we should we should set a topic potentially what's something that you might be interested and I think we should have like a general topic and we should have a sense of what we're gonna cover and I also I mean right now I can tell you what I'm working on right now I'm waiting on some casting directors %HESITATION actually have it this maybe next week we talk about why I'm waiting on casting directors and why I am going to cast rectors and and not just going directly cast and the decision that I made to go that route that's on its next week I don't know let's talk about casting directors casting sounds sinister that has sinister overtones doesn't because of casting cal I think so yeah that's immediately what I think of Harvey it's Harvey damn you are black eyes freakin tentacles are just wrapped all over everything is he in jail did you get busted I don't think he's in jail because our justice system is absolutely insanity I feel like Trusteer children John I feel like John might there in this guy John oh oh he he just I would not be around to throw a wrench John I want to throw off I want to throw a little thought experiment at you at me if there is a country where there were children in jail because their parents brought them to the United States because they were fleeing warfare and there was a man who has raped people who is still probably sailing around on his yacht in the Cayman Islands and has no real plan of probably ending up in jail at any point would you consider that a modern country with an actual functioning government it sounds like you're trying to entrap me to say something negative about America and I'll never do it I love this country I support the troops John it just occurred to me that we might have one listener tell me it's the NSA %HESITATION definitely at the very least we have one listener I feel good I think we're deal and we have teddy Bronson were doing our part in the resistance by boring the **** out of these NSA guys right now reduce so the lord do you think teddy Bronson still listening right now I think when you said earlier that half of woody Allen's movies suck we lost teddy he bails in back he's got the cat sorry we need oh no that's why they carry it off teddy in the cat alright well we should probably go so we can review some applications for dog producers will be back in a week talks in body levy right well I say today I woke up and I thought my backers yeah it woman back does for my back I woke up and I was like my back hurts yet is my backer yes I tweaked it I guess is lebron I guess I bent over and wrong way to solicit tape I'm just constipated did down no I tried right before we started recording it ended uneventfully that's the worst yeah so it's it was a terrible feeling it always takes me like a day and a half to realize that my back isn't hurting my back is full of **** our defense ministry happening you need to fix that's not good I barely ever get constipated that's why I never notice it because I barely ever do it anytime he proved a day with more than one once or twice and a solid two to three times a day we're in and and so it will yes which means if I if I go a day and a half I'm in big trouble yeah yeah I'm on like let alone two days schedule almost a consensus terrific and I eat really healthy so I I wonder why this %HESITATION you know what it is Thomas most of a large most of a large domino's pizza with pepperoni eleven you said I healthy and then the next thing you tells you domino's pizza at what I do to help the okay a today today you arrive in today three smoothies two fried eggs an avocado and six beers and a bottle of tequila point yeah I said eat healthy and insane yeah thanks for tuning in for episode one of I guess to do it that way join us next week for discussion about casting directors and some other stuff today show is produced and edited by this moment intro music was composed by Carl Cadwell and recorded by the distribution outro music by Tom policy in Mexico our cover art was designed by need this is been a production of mama bear studios it's your whole
July 8, 2018
“I Guess We’ll Do it That Way” is a weekly conversational comedy show where Isaiah Smallman and Jon Schimpf talk about life, movies and Zay's progress as he directs his first feature film, Rollers, a dramatic comedy about a struggling concert venue.When they're not on a random tangent, Jon grills Isaiah about the actual process of making an independent movie. How do you get actors to sign on? Where do you get money? What do producers do? What happens if the movie's terrible?! At the end of the day there are things Isaiah doesn't know... like will this movie even get made? But that's the real fun of the show. Because when you're making a movie you start with a vision and you make a plan. Then you realize your plan was never actually going to work and you begin the real job: making choices, finding compromises, and trying to build your vision in spite of the constant hailstorm of reality raining down on your parade.Episodes of “I Guess We’ll Do it That Way” will also feature:Interviews with members of the Rollers teamQ&A with listenersInterviews with industry experts (lots of famous people)There might even be the occasional movie review!Show Website | ThatWay.fmShow Twitter | @ThatWayPodJon TwitterIsaiah InstagramIsaiah IMDBIsaiah’s Twitter (which he never uses)Isaiah LinkedIn
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