October 10, 2019
Not everyone will rush toward the Enneagram with enthusiasm.  In fact, afraid of being labeled, some people can be really resistant to exploring the Enneagram at all.  And that's the case with today's guest. In part 1 of this 2-part series, Ian invites Rev. Becca Stevens, into the studio to talk about how the experience of trauma impacts personality, to discuss her resistance to the Enneagram, and to begin to explore which Enneagram type she resonates with.
October 3, 2019
Enneagram Threes tend to be highly-successful, competitive, multi-tasking machines who have difficulty slowing down.  But what happens when Threes learn to trust that if they just stop 'doing' that everything will still be taken care of?   Today’s guest, trailblazer Molly Fletcher, explains how her strengths as a Three not only helped her thrive as one of the first female sports agents, but also became a liability until she learned how to slow down, relax, and be more intentional about turning it of
September 26, 2019
Each Enneagram type approaches feelings from a different angle.  Some types can be really in touch with their feelings, while others seem out of touch with their feelings. On today’s episode, our guests Jon and Tristen Collins talk about “Why Emotions Matter,” and explain how the Enneagram has helped them integrate the Five’s tendency to keep their feelings to themselves and the Two’s outward capacity for empathy and caring to build a stronger marriage and improve their relationships with others
September 19, 2019
On today’s episode, Founder of Enneagram and Coffee, Sarajane Case, opens up about how the Enneagram has helped her navigate the joys and sorrows of life, release the grip on her high-vibration lifestyle, and enabled her to sit in the truth that she is not a solo traveler on life’s journey.
September 12, 2019
Enneagram Fours have a unique awareness of their feelings and are highly attuned to their environment. Their gift of connecting deeply with others allows them to see the beauty in all things and to give language to experiences for which others can’t seem to find the words. Today’s guest, author Allison Fallon shares how merging the Enneagram with writing has not only helped her heal but has also helped so many others articulate their own internal landscape.
September 5, 2019
Our guests today are hilarious, smart and up on the Enneagram.  Cohosts of the popular Popcast, Knox McCoy and Jamie Golden join Ian in a conversation about self-awareness, the dynamics of working together as an Enneagram 5 and 7, and how pop culture and personality play into each other.
August 29, 2019
Last week, speaking coach Mike Pacchione walked through the speaking, or the communication styles, of the first three Enneagram types and how each type can leverage their gift and what to watch out for. Tune in today for part 2, as Mike and Ian cover how to tap into the strengths and avoid the pitfalls for types four through nine. And, don’t forget to download Mike’s tips for public speaking by Enneagram type.  Just click below for your PDF of the key points for each of the nine types.
August 22, 2019
Have you ever thought about what makes a great speech or presentation? Whether you’re speaking to thousands this weekend, you're speaking to the Rotary Club, or you just want to be a better communicator in the workplace, your Enneagram type has a specific communication style that plays a part in your effectiveness or lack thereof. Our guest today, speaking coach Mike Pacchione walks us through the speaking styles of all nine types, how to leverage their gifts and avoid the pitfalls.
August 15, 2019
Though we can’t manufacture great conversations here on Typology, every now and then we do get to experience something deeply vulnerable and truly magical as we did in this episode with singer/songwriter, Ryan Stevenson. So, tune in as we celebrate the end of Season 2 with a replay of one of our favorite episodes. Then stick around to hear Anthony Skinner's new single, “Keep the Faith,” Get your copy at or visit his website at
August 8, 2019
With so many of our listeners asking about subtypes on a daily basis, we decided to celebrate the end of Season 2 with this replay of Aaron Niequist and Ian discussing instincts and subtypes and using them as another way to help hone in on your Enneagram type.
August 1, 2019
Others often perceive the interior world of the Enneagram Five, or The Observer, as mysterious.  The Observer can appear to not have or be in touch with their emotions. This is simply not the case.   Listen as our guest, Dr. Richard Lindroth takes us into the interior world of The Observer.  He shows us how deeply attuned to beauty and transcendence he is, how he strives to overcome being emotionally distant from himself, and how he’s waking up to the emotional as well as the spiritual components of l
July 25, 2019
In part two of our interview with JOHNNYSWIM, Abner and Amanda’s manager Jay King joins the conversation and shares how the Enneagram has impacted their personal and working relationship.
July 18, 2019
What does it sound like when an Enneagram 7 (The Enthusiast) feels safe enough to reveal his true vulnerability?  Tune in as JohnnySwim’s Abner and Amanda explore their deeper side and talk with Ian about how the Enneagram has played a role in their relationship and their band.  This interview was so great we made it a two-part series, so don’t miss next week, when their manager Jay King jumps into the conversation as well.
July 11, 2019
In part two, Carey and Ian continue their discussion with tips on how leaders can manage anxiety and avoid burnout. Carey Nieuwhof is a former lawyer and founding pastor of Connexus Church. He’s the author of several best-selling books, including his latest, Didn’t See It Coming, and speaks to leaders around the world about leadership, change and personal growth. The Carey Nieuwhof Leadership Podcast and Carey’s blog at are accessed by millions of leaders each year.
July 3, 2019
How can leaders understand themselves and the world in which they live so they can be optimal in their various roles?  One of the first steps is to strengthen self-leadership because you can’t successfully lead others unless you can first lead yourself.   In this two-part episode, former lawyer and founding pastor of Connexus Church, Carey Nieuwhof reveals the seven core challenges to leadership and how approaching these challenges using the Enneagram can help you powerfully you lead your team.
June 27, 2019
Enneagram Nines are adaptable, supportive, and easygoing. Their "go with the flow" attitude serves their need for internal and external peace at all times. To keep this peace, Nines often over-accommodate others in a unconscious effort to avoid conflict, and end up "falling asleep" to their own needs. But today, Lysa Terkeurst, #1 New York Times bestselling author and Enneagram Nine, explains why it's important for The Peacemaker not to confuse the desire for peace with the disease to please.
June 20, 2019
Chris Carneal, founder and CEO of Boosterthon (Enneagram 7) plans for adventure while his CFO, Stan Holcombe (Enneagram 6) plans for dis-adventure.  So how do these two leverage their differences to grow their company 800% over the past eight years?  Today, Chris and Stan share how investing in the culture of their company and the value of self-awareness brings out all the positive attributes of each team member while exponentially growing their business.
June 13, 2019
How do you measure success?  What does it look like and feel like?  Often, we measure success by how we appear to others or by the things we accomplish. But for Enneagram Three, Michael Hyatt, success is defined as freedom – the freedom to focus, the freedom to be fully present, and the freedom to be spontaneous. Today, Ian invites Michael Hyatt, best-selling Author and founder/CEO of Micheal Hyatt & Company, to share his tips for success and finding the balance between productivity and freedom.
June 6, 2019
Have you ever stopped to think about your travel personality? Or how the ideal vacation for your Enneagram type may be different than others?  We all look for different things when choosing our next vacation…and even the planning process can greatly vary.  With summer on our minds, we asked ourselves Anthony and Ian popped into the studio to share some great vacation suggestions for your type as well as a few tips of things to be mindful of while on vacation.
May 30, 2019
One of the elements about the Enneagram that makes it different than other typologies is the principles behind working with Centers of Intelligence. The three centers of intelligence are the head, heart, and body. Each Enneagram type uses all three centers but where people often get in trouble is when they over-privilege or overuse one of those centers.  Today, Enneagram expert Beatrice Chestnut and Ian Cron introduce the Centers of Intelligence and talk about ways to bring them into balance.
May 23, 2019
Drew and Ellie Holcomb return this week for part two of our two-part series. Today, Drew shares how he has learned to let go of his need to be in charge and is learning to lead from the heart., and Ellie gives us insight into what makes her feel really alive.
May 16, 2019
Enneagram Eights and Sevens make a high-energy couple. Both types are strong-willed, independent, and love adventure. But they manage their feelings in different ways. Eights embrace a challenge and express anger easily which can clash with a Seven’s tendency to avoid painful feelings. As you’ll hear in today’s episode, Drew and Ellie Holcomb describe how the Enneagram has shifted their marriage by guiding them toward self-reflection and providing them with practical ways to navigate their feelings.
May 9, 2019
In today’s episode, we share a big announcement then replay Ian’s interview with renowned Enneagram teacher, author, consultant, and Enneagram Two, Dr. Beatrice Chestnut Ph.D.  A student of the Enneagram system of personality since 1990, she is the author of Ian’s all-time favorite Enneagram book, The Complete Enneagram: 27 Paths to Greater Self-Knowledge.
May 2, 2019
When it comes to relationships, how do you interact with and love other people? It’s often in our most intimate relationships that our most true self shows up and we realize that our view of the world is not necessarily the same as others. The Enneagram helps us understand ourselves better, provides a platform for understanding our partners, and teaches us how to walk more healthily in relationships. Today, J.J. Peterson processes past relationships with Ian and reminds us all to trust our gut.
April 25, 2019
How does the Enneagram affect how you communicate with your spouse?  Each personality type has a different communication style and the Enneagram helps us appreciate and negotiate those differences.    In today’s episode, former co-stars of Little People, Big World, and founders of Beating 50 Percent, Jeremy and Audrey Roloff join Ian on Typology to discuss the ways the Enneagram has shaped how they manage stress, helped them communicate better in their marriage, and transformed their relatio
April 18, 2019
Enneagram Fives operate from a withdrawing stance and value their privacy.  And though they can often appear detached there is actually a lot of vulnerability beneath the surface. The challenge for a Five is to not over-rely on their intellect but rather learn to connect with the heart by bringing their feeling up to the same level of their intellect. In today’s episode, Dan Haseltine opens up to Ian and shows how the powerful intellect of an Enneagram 5 can blend with their emotional space.
April 11, 2019
The more we come to know ourselves, to accept our own uniqueness and brokenness, the more we can begin to understand others. In fact, when we learn to speak into each other’s lives with a scalpel rather than a dagger, with the posture of gentleness, we can even correct each other’s excesses in a way that’s whole-making. In today’s episode, Scott Sauls discusses the role the Enneagram has played through his seasons of anxiety and depression, and how others help keep him in balance.
April 4, 2019
How does your Enneagram type affect your decision making?  Each Enneagram type has different motivations and makes decisions in different ways.  So, when faced with making a decision, sometimes we need to go against the grain of how we normally do things in order to figure out what is the next right thing. In today’s episode, author Emily P. Freeman joins Ian to offer recommendations on decision making based on each Enneagram Type and the Centers of Intelligence.
March 27, 2019
Addiction is a compulsion to continue doing something despite harmful consequences. And if we look at addiction through the lens of the Enneagram, we can view the passion of each Enneagram type as an addiction. The Enneagram helps bring to awareness what these unconscious addictions and compulsions are so we can start to unwind the influence and power they have over our lives. So, today we talk about each Enneagram type’s compulsion and what recovery (or sobriety) for that type looks like.
March 21, 2019
The Enneagram is a transformational tool for self-awareness and self-knowledge.  It helps uncover the most unconscious parts of who we are.  But how? Once you identify your Enneagram type, what’s the next step?  On today’s episode of Typology, Ian shares his top 25 Enneagram resources for discovering the why behind what you do and taking the next steps toward becoming your authentic self.
March 14, 2019
How do we use the Enneagram to honor our differences? When we truly understand the Enneagram we see that one type is not better than another. Each type is different and that difference enriches us. In today’s show, we invited Rabbi Evan Moffic to join us again to talk about how a lack of appreciation of differences, can foster an environment of antisemitism and discrimination of all types, and what we can do to begin to unwind or reverse the momentum of antisemitism and all forms of discrimination.
March 7, 2019
Have you ever stopped to ask yourself, “What if the story I tell myself and others about who I am and who I'm becoming isn't true?”  As children, we all construct stories, or narratives, to help make sense of our environment. When you understand the false story around which you have organized your life, you're able to identify your false story, decouple yourself from it and begin to live the truth of your new story.
February 28, 2019
Last week, Scott and Ian talked about how the Enneagram can help you in the workplace. This week, they continue the conversation highlighting the way the Enneagram feeds emotional intelligence, fosters empathy and compassion, increases productivity, and ultimately leads to better bottom line results and a happier place to work.
February 21, 2019
How does knowing a person’s personality style help you in leadership development? In today’s episode, Scott Allender shares how he has used the Enneagram in team building and leadership development. He explains how the Enneagram helps provide insight into how the different people on your team function in the workplace, how you can support them in different phases in their career, and more...
February 14, 2019
In Part 2 of our conversation with singer/songwriter Amy Grant, we continue to explore stances to hone in on whether or not she’s actually an Enneagram Nine. Discussing the differences between types in the gut triad and how they each relate to anger and focusing on a few key instinctual responses helps Amy find her type. Listen through to the end as Amy shares a special song with us before her interview ends.
February 7, 2019
What if you’re stuck and haven’t yet figured out your type? Today’s guest, singer/songwriter Amy Grant struggled to find her type too.  So, we tackled the struggle from a different angle…using stances.  In fact, one of the quickest ways to identify your Enneagram type is to first look at the different social styles, or stances, of the types rather than focus on each type individually.  Tune in to learn about the three stances and find out how you move in the world.
January 31, 2019
In order to make sense of our lives in early childhood, we develop narratives that explain our life experiences. We often choose specific incidents that we string together into the plot we now live.  But, have you ever stopped to ask yourself if the story you are living is true? Today, Ian and singer/songwriter Ryan Stevenson, tackle the concept of owning your narrative and challenge whether the interpretations of your own story are in fact true.
January 24, 2019
In order to truly use the Enneagram to better understand our own personality, it is important to have an understanding of, not just the unconscious motivations, but also the impact that subtypes and wings have on each type. In part two of our conversation with CNN Political Analyst, Kirsten Powers, we dive into the role subtypes and wings play in determining your type.
January 17, 2019
Let’s face it…there’s a deep complexity to the Enneagram.  Yes, for some, it is extremely easy to nail down their type.  But for others…well, it’s more complicated.  We can’t determine our type by our behaviors.  We really have to dig down into what’s driving those behaviors. When our guest, author and CNN political analyst, Kirsten Powers, reached out about her uncertainty in typing herself as a One or an Eight, we had to help her land on something.
January 10, 2019
In today’s episode, Enneagram Four and author of “Get Weird: Discover the Surprising Secret to Making a Difference,” CJ Casciotta joins us to talk about becoming more comfortable in your own unique self and how using your innate ability to be creative can lead to success in your personal and professional life.   No matter what you sort of weird you gravitate toward, the reason you're here on Earth is to bring something new that wasn't there before.
January 3, 2019
On today’s episode, Ian sits down with friend and author, Amy Julia Becker, to talk about how admitting her own needs, and learning to accept herself as beautiful and broken, vulnerable, needy and gifted has been a huge life lesson in perfectionism.
December 27, 2018
This week we're taking a break to spend time with our families over the holidays and hope you are doing the same. Enjoy this replay of one of our most downloaded episodes. Annie F. Downs discusses how she stopped running from pain and is learning to share more of her true self through her own path to transformation.
December 20, 2018
This week we continue our conversation with pastor, author, and leader at Church of the City, Darren Whitehead, as he discusses where he gets stuck, why he learned to say no, and how he measures success through spiritual growth rather than statistics.
December 13, 2018
When Enneagram Threes are self-aware they stop projecting an image to please the crowd and instead become more comfortable with their true-self. Healthy Threes make great role models who enjoy motivating others to become successful in their own right. This week we invited pastor, author, and leader at Church of the City, Darren Whitehead, to share how he channels his Enneagram Three gifts of relating to others into his own version of being a successful leader.
December 10, 2018
On this episode, Ian and Anthony drink WAY too much egg nog and start calling unsuspecting (former) friends to ask for the perfect gift for their type!
December 6, 2018
The Enneagram is a gateway for building strong relationships. It teaches us how to communicate, and in turn, strengthens our relationships with family, friends, and co-workers. This week, husband and wife, David Dark (Enneagram 9) and Sarah Masen (Enneagram 6) join me in a conversation about how the Enneagram has helped them identify the similarities and differences in their personalities and how that knowledge has shaped their marriage.
November 29, 2018
Threes are not naturally self-reflective. They tend to be externally focused rather than internally focused. The big message that threes receive growing up is that it's not okay to have your own feelings and identity, so they expend a lot of energy creating, projecting and maintaining a false image in order to be admired and accepted. Today, Jonathan Merritt and I discuss processing the pain behind the mask and pushing past the lies we tell ourselves in order to move closer to self-acceptance.
November 15, 2018
Eights are motivated by a powerful need to be strong and to avoid appearing weak or vulnerable.  But healthy Eights understand that there are strength and power in vulnerability. Yes, it takes courage to risk vulnerability, but to love and be loved, Eights have to risk opening their heart to a trusted few. Today, Ian and Chris Cruz discuss letting go of the pressure to be strong, choosing mercy over vengeance, and embracing the awkwardness of being vulnerable.
November 8, 2018
Last week, StoryBrand's Don Miller joined Ian to discuss the importance of directing your own story. Tune in today as the conversation turns toward understanding how each Enneagram type tends to lead and how that can impact the broader culture of a workplace.
November 1, 2018
The Enneagram is not just meant to help people understand themselves and then do nothing about it. Rather it’s a tool for fostering deep, inner work. In order to make lasting changes, you need to know the story and themes that run beneath the surface. The Enneagram reveals what story you are programmed with and how that self-limiting narrative drives your behaviors. Today, Don Miller and Ian Cron explore the importance of directing your own story and ask “What story do you want to live?”
October 24, 2018
The wisdom that we can gain from the Enneagram is self-knowledge. No matter your Enneagram type, self-knowledge can help you dis-identify with those aspects of your personality that put you in an unhealthy place of habitual reactivity.  But once you start to observe those unhealthy aspects, and dive into your work, you're no longer ruled by your personality. Today John Mark McMillan, platinum-selling songwriter, joins Ian to discuss his deep connection to feelings and the Four’s defense mechanism.
October 18, 2018
One of the ways we learn about people in their types is through, what are called, Hornevian groups, based on the work of Karen Horney, or stances. What they indicate for us is the social style of each type, or the direction we move in, in relationship to people. There are three styles: the assertive stance, the withdrawing stance, and the earning stance.  In today’s episode, Miles Adcox joins Ian to talk about each stance and how knowing your stance can help you find your type.
October 11, 2018
Sevens have a core belief that in order for them to be secure, loved and valued they have to bring the energy and excitement into every situation.  There’s this expectation and pressure to be on all the time. And though they are generally wired with a great deal of energy, so it does come easily to them, Sevens have a lot more to offer than just their energy and humor.
October 4, 2018
The intensity of an Eight is easy to spot in their concern with justice. Eights are very concerned with standing up for the underdog. They love to defend the defenseless, to be the voice of the voiceless. It gives them great satisfaction to stand in the line of fire for people who are vulnerable. And you’ll hear that in my conversation with today’s guest, Scott Harrison, founder of charity: water.
September 27, 2018
What's your best friend's number? Understanding the Enneagram can profoundly impact how you relate to others and help you build strong friendships. Knowing your friends' number allows you to understand each other's tendencies and creates space for conversation and compassion.  Today on Typology, listen as Michael Gungor and Mike McHargue, co-hosts of the wildly popular podcast, The Liturgists, demonstrate the role the Enneagram has played in their friendship.
September 19, 2018
In last week's episode, Mark Scandrette shared some simple steps to help you begin using the Enneagram to move from unconscious to conscious living. In part two, Mark and Ian continue their conversation by discussing the importance of doing work within a community and asking the right questions.
September 13, 2018
To really begin to heal and experience true transformation, we have to be willing to face our shadows because that’s where the distortions of our reality live and multiply. One of the many gifts of the Enneagram is that it provides us with an opportunity to compassionately look into our shadow…to hold up a mirror to those behaviors that we can change.  Today, Mark Scandrette joins Ian and shares some simple steps you can start using today to help you begin to move from unconscious to conscious living.
September 6, 2018
Open to new experiences, Sevens are self-confident, optimistic and joyful people who exude loads of energy. They bring a sense of adventure and energy to their relationships and generally try to avoid negative feelings. In today’s episode, Enneagram 7, Dave Barnes joins us to discuss how integrating the Enneagram into his spiritual development has helped him slow down his internal processor and taught him to keep tabs on whether or not he is staying present in the moment.
August 30, 2018
In today’s episode, Tim Mackie and Jon Collins from The Bible Project, discuss how the Enneagram has helped them tackle undiscovered territory in their own temperaments and value systems, and how learning to name, pay attention to, and honor these parts of their personality has allowed them to release control of different parts of their lives and receive every part of what each day brings.
August 23, 2018
Sixes have excellent analytical minds, are great strategists, troubleshooters, problem-solvers, and of course, see worst-case scenarios that other people don't see. The passion of the Six is fear which is often experienced as anxiety…anxiety that the unexpected could happen at any time.  In today's episode, Jeff Chu joins Ian to talk about embracing his fears by identifying those aspects of his personality that are responses to things he's been through in the past.
August 15, 2018
When you truly begin doing your work, the Enneagram really should mess with you. It should dis-equilibrate you, throw you back on your heals, make you wonder, "Who am I? Who is everybody else? What am I supposed to do now? This week we're back with part 2 of Claire Diaz-Ortiz's interview revealing how her research into Enneagram Threes has helped her begin to dig beneath the surface and shift her focus towards using the gifts she's developed to lift up others from behind the scenes.
August 9, 2018
So many of our listeners have asked me to talk about subtypes.  Everybody asks, "Can you please say more about subtypes? What are they and how do I determine mine?" Those are great questions actually because there are multiple variations of type. I think what happens with each variation is you get another degree of clarity about the nature of the type itself, it's different flavors and expressions. So tune in as I break it down for you and Aaron.
August 2, 2018
Kicking off season two, Claire Diaz-Ortiz returns to reveal how her research into Enneagram Threes has had impacted her and helped her become "quiet enough to listen" so real, deep change can happen.
July 26, 2018
Enneagram Twos are called The Helpers.  They are some of the most loving, kind, supportive, upbeat, and—when healthy—genuinely helpful to other people.  Their underlying motivation is to feel loved and needed. But sometimes that need to be needed can lead to burn out. This week we revisit our Panel of Twos where Tia Coffey, Geoff Little, and Andrew Greer talk about finding the balance between giving enough and giving to the point of burn out.
July 19, 2018
Discovering the Enneagram was a game-changer for Rob. His knowledge and enthusiasm for the Enneagram runs deep, and as you’ll discover while we revisit this episode, Rob is an Enneagram "7 with a 7 wing."
July 12, 2018
This week we are revisiting Ian's interview with 'Science Mike' McHargue as he shares his journey through the inner sanctum of an Enneagram Nine and his process of building a healthy connection to anger.  To preserve their inner peace and harmony, Nines often deny or simply don't even recognize their anger. Instead, they create an inner boundary to tamp down any feelings or desires that might disturb their calm inner sea.
July 5, 2018
With a strong need for security and consistency, Sixes appreciate order, plans and rules and like the comfort and predictability of laws and guidelines.  But their passion is fear, which is often experienced as anxiety--a vague, free-floating sense of apprehension that arises in response to an unknown or potential threat that may never materialize.  So, how do Sixes achieve spiritual growth?
June 28, 2018
Today we are revisiting Ian's interview with celebrated Author, Speaker Bob Goff and his wife Maria. Bob is an Enneagram 7 and Maria is a 9.  And even though this episode provides a lot of insight into the worldview of a 7 and 9, the show today is really more about marriage and how two very distinct personality types can create a climate in which difference isn't merely tolerated, but rather is celebrated.
June 21, 2018
What would it look like if Ones reclaimed their childlike wonder? When Ones move toward health, they begin to let judgments go and become more at ease with imperfection. They begin to truly quiet that inner critic and turn it into an inner encourager.
June 14, 2018
Just as the Enneagram is broken into Triads, it is also be broken into Stances – the Dependent Stance, the Withdrawing Stance, and the Aggressive Stance. On today’s episode of Typology, Ashley Cleveland and I delve into the stances, right-sizing the personality and how surrender and acceptance are the gateways to everything. It’s a great episode you won’t want to miss.
June 7, 2018
Today's show is packed with great information for those who know your Enneagram type and are interested in learning how to shift your attention and grow in self-awareness.  Today, Marilyn Vancil talks about the focus of attention for each type, what to do when you realize you're locked into a habit of attention and how to break it, and how to know when it's time to wake up and develop a spiritual practice.
May 31, 2018
Every type has a basic fear and desire coloring the waters of their personality.  For Eights, the fear is not being in control of their self. Their basic desire is to avoid feeling weak or vulnerable. But Eights can often be misinterpreted. Though they can often appear blunt and aggressive, Eights are really about justice and looking out for their tribe and making sure others feel like they belong.  Listen in as Patrick Chappelle discusses how he approaches various triggers from the lens of an Eight.
May 24, 2018
Sevens are the joy bombs of the Enneagram.  The energy they give off is energetic, fun-loving and naturally cheerful. They are optimistic by nature and seize every moment of life. They live for the next adventure and are experts at reframing a negative situation to find the silver lining.  On today's episode, we jump into an energetic conversation with Enneagram Seven, Luke Norsworthy, and find out why it’s important for Sevens to enjoy life with a small spoon.
May 17, 2018
In today’s episode, Jen Hatmaker and I discuss the similarities and differences of Threes and Eights and how that manifests under the umbrella of fighting for justice and grace.  Listen as we talk about Jen’s need to stand up for various social issues, her ability to embrace confrontation for what is just, and the emotional response to doing just that.
May 10, 2018
Last week David Gungor shared his struggle in determining his type, how he embraces his “chaotic intentionality,” and what it means to need others to “get out of his face.”  Today we continue the conversation about how the Enneagram can help Enneagram Eights grow in self-awareness through spiritual practices and leaning into the people they do trust to gain true intimacy.
May 3, 2018
Eights express their anger freely, are fueled by high levels of stimulation, and react very strongly against challenging injustices.  But what does it sound like when an Eight acknowledges their weakness or vulnerability? What does it look like when you break through that tough exterior? Listen as David Gungor shares his struggle in determining his type, how he embraces his “chaotic intentionality,” and what it means to need others to “get out of his face.”
April 26, 2018
It's extremely difficult for a Two to admit their own “neediness.” They rarely ask for help and don’t know how to receive it when it’s offered.  Instead, they focus their energy on meeting the needs of others. So for Twos to grow, they need to embrace the truth that we all have needs.  We’re all broken in some way.  And that’s okay.  Listen as Michele Cushatt talks to us about how Twos can stop seeing their wounds as a flaw but rather as portals for deeper connection for others.
April 19, 2018
This week we continue with our panel of Fours -- Sandra McCracken, Megan Miller, Matthew Perryman Jones, and Don Chaffer. Tune in as we discuss the strengths and challenges of being a Four, and stick around to the end when Ian and guests pull some guitars down from the studio walls and spontaneously break into a Dylan tune. It's pretty unforgettable.
April 12, 2018
To best illustrate the uniqueness of Fours, I brought in a panel of for this week’s show. The thing I love about panels is it's so much better for people to learn about these different types straight from the mouths of those who live in the shoes of those different styles of being in the world. Fours are the most misunderstood number on the Enneagram in general. So, tune in as Sandra McCracken, Megan Miller, Matthew Perryman Jones, and Don Chaffer join us in studio to talk about all things Four.
April 5, 2018
After a knee-jerk reaction of skepticism, Dr. Richard Beck and his wife, Jana, share how the Enneagram has had an unexpectedly profound effect on their family. In today’s show, we talk about the disjoint of how we conceive ourselves and how we behave on the ground, how personality and virtue cut across Enneagram types, and the unique contribution of the fluidity of the Enneagram.
March 29, 2018
This week we jump back into our conversation with Paul Young to help nail down his type.  Figuring out his type was hard, as it can be for many.  But I think Paul has suffered and worked through so many things in his life, he has reached a point where I think he's maybe one of the most integrated nines I've ever known. Also, because of that, he has a mystical quality.  When they're healthy, nines are so awake there's a mystical quality to them. I think it becomes tough to figure out their type because they're so attuned and plugged in across all these types, but they're awake.   Paul Young is the author of The Shack (2007), Cross Roads (2012), Eve (2015), and he just released his latest book, Lies we believe about GOD (2017). To learn more about Paul or to check out his books, visit
March 22, 2018
When learning the Enneagram and figuring out your number, one thing that complicates things is trauma and the effect of trauma on personality development and theory. I always say, I think personality, just the defensive nature of the personality thickens on people with trauma. The staircase is steeper that we have to climb. Our guest in this two-part episode is not sure if he's a 9 or a 7. And so during the show, we actually get into it, we actually help Author Paul Young nail it in the second episode.
March 15, 2018
How do Sixes achieve spiritual growth? A lot of Sixes think the answer is bravery, but there’s never enough bravery to fill the bucket of “this is a scary world and I need support.” But in today’s episode, Sarah Thebarge shares the difference between bravery and courage and how making that distinction has been helpful for her as an Enneagram Six.
March 7, 2018
Each Enneagram type has misbeliefs and errant unconscious motivations that get us to do, think, and feel things that are not in our best interests.  The hurtful words and experiences of our past determine the record we play in our head as an adult. In her new book, How to Fix a Broken Record, Amena Brown uses music to help us recognize the negative messages that play on repeat throughout our lives.  So what's your broken record?  And how does the Enneagram help you fix it?
March 1, 2018
Have you ever wondered what it would be like to go on tour with a band? What's it truly like to live on a bus with 11 other people day-in and day-out?  When the road manager of Tenth Avenue North reached out to talk about how the Enneagram, and The Road Back to You in particular, has helped their band get along in tight quarters, I was excited to get them in the studio. Listen as we uncover how the Enneagram has given Tenth Avenue North a new starting place for communicating and facing conflict.
February 22, 2018
In her book, Reading People: How Seeing the World through the Lens of the Personality Changes Everything, author Anne Bogel talks about being at peace with who you are. And, who doesn't want peace with themselves, to have a sense of consonance, a sense of integration despite all of their dings and dents?  Part of the journey for Nines is learning to take action on their own behalf and invest in themselves and not feel like it's a poor investment.
February 14, 2018
Enneagram Twos are called The Helpers.  They are loving, kind, supportive, upbeat, and—when healthy—genuinely helpful to other people.  Their underlying motivation is to feel loved and needed. But sometimes that need to be needed can lead to burn out.  This week’s panel of Twos describes what it’s like in the mind of The Helper.  Listen as Tia Coffey, Geoff Little, and singer-songwriter-author, Andrew Greer talk about finding the balance between giving enough and giving too much.
February 8, 2018
Our personality types can put us into an almost hypnotic trance, something I’d call the shadow. We relegate to the shadow those parts of ourselves we don't want to see. What the Enneagram does is it takes a flashlight and it goes into the shadow with you. It helps us embrace the journey inward. It's not going to be comfortable. Embracing pain isn’t something we do well. But it’s important to feel those things as they come up, not analyze them, not try and figure them out.
February 1, 2018
About a month ago, I sat down with author and former White House staffer, Michael Wear, to talk about personality, power, and politics.  And I know this is a hot-button topic, but I do think it's an important conversation to have.  When we're talking about the President of United States and want to understand who he/she is, how he/she operates, and why our country is where it is, I think it's fair to begin to just think out loud what is happening here and what does it mean?
January 25, 2018
Ian Cron and Michael Cusick continue their conversation about Enneagram Twos letting go of shame and embracing failures and shortcomings. Learning how letting go allows you to live from a place of self-acceptance.
January 17, 2018
A large piece of the journey for Enneagram Twos is to understand that you do have needs, acknowledge those needs, and actually learn how to articulate them. On today’s show, Michael Cusick shares how the Enneagram has taught him to become more conscious of when he is over-identifying with those aspects of his personality that aren’t healthy and helps him make different choices.
January 11, 2018
Healthy Eights are great friends, exceptional leaders and champions of those who cannot fight on their own behalf. They have the intelligence, courage and stamina to do what others say can’t be done. And, as with most Enneagram Eights, Jo Saxton is full of Eight's life-giving energy so when she was available for our podcast, I jumped at the chance to interview her. When healthy, Eights learn to open their hearts like a healthy Two. And today, Jo shares how she peeled back the layers, let down her defenses and got in touch with their inner heart. Listen in as we discuss healing broken identities and using the Enneagram as a tool for breaking through the junk that we accumulate and that confuses us from seeing who we truly are. And at the end of the show,  Jo Saxton shares some tips for Eights who are just beginning to do their work and how they can begin to grow beyond their broken identity, or their broken personality, into their best self. A few things about Jo...she's a really popular leadership trainer. She's an international speaker. She's a best-selling author. She's passionate about seeing God transform lives across the globe. I mean, she's been featured at conferences like If, Catalyst, Thrive, Propel.  She also chairs the board of international discipleship organization called 3D Movements, and cohosts the Lead Stories podcast. Her latest book, The Dream of You: Let Go of Broken Identities and Live the Life You Were Made For is set to release on January 23, 2018. For more information on Jo, visit
January 4, 2018
In today’s episode, the Cron Family gathers over the holidays to discuss how the Enneagram has helped them grow closer and understand each other better. Listen as they share how their family finds balance and appreciation among each other.
December 21, 2017
This week on Typology, we continue our conversation with 'Science Mike' McHargue. This show is bursting with wisdom about Nines.  You'll learn how Nines can spiritually wake up and leverage their unleashed energy for some really cool things, what a Nine looks like in Right Action, and hear some great tips at the end for growing in your journey.   Mike McHargue (better known as Science Mike) is an author, podcaster, and speaker who travels the world helping people understand the science of life's most profound experiences. His bestselling debut book, Finding God in the Waves, has helped thousands understand faith in the 21st century. Mike hosts Ask Science Mike, a weekly question and answer podcast helping hundreds of thousands explore the questions they've always been afraid to ask. He also co-hosts The Liturgists Podcast with his friend Michael Gungor. With over a million downloads per month, The Liturgists Podcast is reshaping how the spiritually homeless and frustrated relate to God. And his bestselling debut book, Finding God in the Waves, has helped thousands understand faith in the 21st century. To learn more about Science Mike, visit
December 14, 2017
Enneagram Nines, or The Peacemakers, are open and receptive in every way. They can see both sides to everything and they have a profound awareness of the interconnectedness of all things in creation.  Their unconscious motivation is to avoid conflict at all costs, to maintain a relational connection, maintain the status quo, and preserve inner peace and harmony.  To preserve this inner peace and harmony, Nines create internal and external boundaries.  The inner boundary is to tamp down any feelings or desires that might disturb their calm inner sea.  The external boundary exists to protect them from anything external that might cause inner tumult. This desire for inner and outer peace is so innate that Nines unconsciously absorb other people’s emotional energy.  Today on Typology, our guest 'Science Mike' McHargue shares his journey through the inner sanctum of a Nine and his process of building a healthy connection to anger.  Mike provides so much insight into the life of the Peacemaker we had to make it a two-part show.  Mike McHargue (better known as Science Mike) is an author, podcaster, and speaker who travels the world helping people understand the science of life's most profound experiences. His bestselling debut book, Finding God in the Waves, has helped thousands understand faith in the 21st century. Mike hosts Ask Science Mike, a weekly question and answer podcast helping hundreds of thousands explore the questions they've always been afraid to ask. He also co-hosts The Liturgists Podcast with his friend Michael Gungor. With over a million downloads per month, The Liturgists Podcast is reshaping how the spiritually homeless and frustrated relate to God. And his bestselling debut book, Finding God in the Waves, has helped thousands understand faith in the 21st century. To learn more about Science Mike, visit  
December 7, 2017
A lot of listeners have reached out asking “how do I figure out my type?” And though I would love to give the answer, the truth is it can be very difficult to figure out one’s Enneagram number. You are the only one who can truly determine your own Enneagram number because only you can identify the underlying motivation that drives the way you view the world. The real determining factor is not what you do, but rather why you do it. And, frankly, sometimes that can take a lot of internal work. In fact, I can’t tell you how many people have told me they thought they were one number, but after really doing their work, figured out they had misidentified themselves. With so many variables it’s easy to do.   So, I often tell people that the best way to learn the Enneagram or to figure out your number is through the narrative. Read about the Enneagram, attend an Enneagram conference, and listen to others share their stories. It's truly the best way to distinguish between the nuances of each type.   And this week on Typology, our guest Claire Diaz-Ortiz shares her story.  Listen as Claire tells us about her life as it relates to the Enneagram. For years she's been seeing her life through the lens of an Enneagram One. But, is she truly an Enneagram One? Stay tuned through the end of the show as we leave her with some food for thought.   Claire Diaz-Ortiz (@claire) is an author, speaker and Silicon Valley innovator who was an early employee at Twitter. Named one of the100 Most Creative People in Business by Fast Company, she holds an MBA and other degrees from Stanford and Oxford and has been featured widely in print and broadcast media. She writes a popular business blog at and is the award-winning author of eight books that have been published in more than a dozen countries.
November 30, 2017
Fours are the most complex of all the types on the Enneagram. They spend their lives feeling different and separate from others and long to be understood and appreciated for their authentic self. Fours experience themselves as people who are missing something essential at their core that they just can’t put their finger on.  As Tim Burton describes it, “if you’ve ever had that feeling of loneliness, of being an outsider, it never quite leaves you.” Fours also have a considerable emotional range. They don’t have feelings, they are their feelings and those feelings form the basis of their identity.  This unique gift of being so connected to their emotions  allows them to experience a truly rich interior life. It heightens their creativity and acute sensibility to aesthetics, to beauty and meaning. In this episode, we invited singer-songwriter Matthew Perryman Jones to share his experiences growing up as an Enneagram Four. Not only does he describe that feeling of being unique but he also shares his song, “Oh Theo,” which truly captures the world view of a Four. Originally from Pennsylvania, Matthew grew up in Georgia and cut his artistic teeth in the Atlanta music scene before heading north to Nashville. His debut release, Nowhere Else But Here, dropped in 2000, followed by three subsequent albums — Throwing Punches in the Dark (2006), Swallow the Sea (2008), and Land of the Living (2012) — three additional EPs and a handful of singles. Songs from across his catalog have been featured in dozens of film and TV placements, and tours have taken him across the U.S. and abroad to share stages with legends like Shawn Colvin and Patty Griffin, as well as the Ten Out of Tenn songwriter collective of which he is a part. Now, Matthew is embarking on what might be the ultimate test of his inner compass: making his fifth album with only himself, a guitar, some basic recording gear, and genius loci — the spirit of place. As he chases the ever-retreating horizon, Jones will stop, listen, and capture when and what the spirit of each place calls out to him. To learn more about Matthew, visit
November 16, 2017
Enneagram Threes focus on outstanding performance, being perceived as successful and avoiding failure at all costs. They believe that love comes from achievement, image, and status and have the tendency to neglect or ignore the personal needs of self and others. But when Threes move toward health they move to the high side of Six.  When that happens they no longer need to “drive the bus” or flaunt success. They are so good at helping others live into their full potential and be successful in their own right, and not have it be all about their own success. In this episode, Lisa Whelchel discusses her journey toward being a healthy Three.  Listen in as she touches on her subtypes, how she identifies her True Self, and how the Enneagram has impacted her  life as an introverted Type 3 with a 2 wing.   Lisa is an actress, author, international speaker, and life coach. Perhaps best known for her starring role as Blair Warner on NBC’s “The Facts of Life” for nine years, she’s also the author of “Creative Correction” which has sold over 200,000 copies and has written more than a dozen books.  Currently, Lisa is a certified CoActive Life Coach and focuses most of her time these days coming alongside others on their transformational journey to remembering their True Self. For more information please visit and
November 9, 2017
Enneagram Fives are known as the Investigators, or the Observers.  They see the world as intrusive, overwhelming and draining.  They prefer to observe life from the sidelines rather than jumping in and participating in it. They value their privacy and freedom and can feel consumed, or drained, by prolonged involvement with other people or by having too many expectations placed on them.  They monitor the amount of time they spend with others and hightail it back to the realm of the mind whenever possible to refuel.  But, Fives are alert, insightful, and curious. When it comes to doing their 'work', Fives have an advantage over the rest of us.  Their love for solitude makes them natural contemplatives and their deep need to collect knowledge and information can lead to true self-awareness. These healthy Fives are likely to have depth in knowledge in several areas of their lives and they willingly share their findings with others. And you'll hear that in action on today's episode.  My guest Dr. Andrew Root proves he has done his work. Listen in as he opens up and shares how he navigates life through the lens of an Enneagram Five.  Andrew Root (Ph.D., Princeton Theological Seminary) is the Carrie Olson Baalson Associate Professor of Youth and Family Ministry at Luther Seminary in St. Paul, Minnesota. A former Young Life staff worker, he has served in churches and social service agencies as a youth outreach associate and a gang prevention counselor.  He writes and researches in areas of theology and youth ministry.  His most recent books are Christopraxis (Fortress Press, 2014) and Bonhoeffer as Youth Worker (Baker, 2014) and The Grace of Dogs: A Boy, A Black Lab, and a Father's Search for the Canine Soul, released June 7, 2017.
November 2, 2017
I’ve received lots of emails and messages from folks on social media who are struggling to nail down their Enneagram number. Well, let me tell you, if that’s the case for you, this show is spot on. While only you can determine your own type, there are some things you can do to help get clarity.  For those out there who are trying to figure out their type it’s often helpful to read up on wings.  Wings are the number on either side of your number.  Each of these wings will have a different influence on your type.  I would also encourage folks to go to Beatrice Chestnut’s book, The Complete Enneagram: 27 Paths to Greater Self-Knowledge and go through the section where she describes the different subtypes.  This will really provide some insight and help you nail down that number. But, what does it look like when that process comes to life? On today’s show we break it down with Enneagram skeptic, Matt Carter. Matt Carter is a musician, podcaster, and entrepreneur based in Seattle, WA.   His career in the music industry began as lead guitarist of the post-punk/hardcore band Emery. His background as a touring musician laid a foundation for various collaborative ventures, including the founding of BadChristian Media and Jabberjaw Media. Matt hosts the wildly popular The BadChristian Podcast and Break it Down Podcast. He continues to tour and perform in Emery and Matt & Toby. When we started the show, we had no idea where the interview would take us. And, let me warn you in advance, this show is unlike any I’ve done in the past. In fact, it was so cool that when we wrapped up, Anthony and I were so psyched we laughed out loud.  So, strap yourselves in, put on your crash helmets, and let’s get to it.
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