In this week's podcast Richard Seroter talks to Lisa Crispin who works on the tracker team at Pivotal Labs, and is an organiser of the Agile Alliance Technical Conference. Lisa is the co-author of several books on Agile Testing, and is also the 2012 recipient of the Agile Testing Days award for Most Influential Agile Testing Professional Person.Richard also talks to Justin Searls, software craftsman, presenter of "How to Stop Hating Your Tests" and co-founder of Test Double, a company whose goal is to "improve how the world writes software."Why listen to this podcast: - Agile is mainstream, and being adopted by big enterprises, but there's a place to help small companies and startups. - Cloud Foundry pair testers to write production code with the programmers. - Developers have to be focused on right now, testers have freedom to look at more of the big picture - People know testing is good and there a lot of tools for it, but some tools are ill-conceived. - We need a better language for talking about good QA and full stack testing.Notes and links can be found on InfoQ: http://bit.ly/1U0ip8Q2m:00s - The first XP universe conferences were mainly about XP practices, values and principles, and were attended by developers2m:17s - Over time, topics moved towards processes and frameworks, and the number of developers who attend Agile conferences has gone down dramatically.3m:51s - Now Agile is mainstream, it's being adopted by big enterprises, but there's a place to help small companies and startups. That's usually where the innovation comes from, and the Agile Alliance wants to encourage innovation.Quick scan our curated show notes on InfoQ. http://bit.ly/1U0ip8QYou can also subscribe to the InfoQ newsletter to receive weekly updates on the hottest topics from professional software development. http://bit.ly/24x3IVq