What happens when a Harvard Divinity School graduate, public theologian and gardening philosopher sits down with an LGBTQ Christian podcast host for over an hour of raw, unfiltered conversation about faith, sexuality, race, the church and what it means to truly know God?

This. This episode happens.

Lauren Lanzaretta sits down with Ciarra Jones — known as the Gardening Theologian — for one of the most thought-provoking, theologically rich and deeply personal conversations the You Can Be Both podcast has ever had. Ciarra is a writer, speaker and public theologian who helps people untangle inherited beliefs and cultivate a faith that is rooted, liberated and alive.

In this episode, Lauren and Ciarra explore:

🌱 Growing up Black in all-white California towns — and what that teaches you about systems of power

📖 How Ciarra's parents' divorce led her into fundamentalist Christianity — and what it took to find her way out

🏳️‍🌈 What the church gets wrong about LGBTQ identity — and what a more expansive faith looks like

✝️ The difference between a punishing God and a gentle God — and who benefits from each

🌿 How gardening became a spiritual practice and a theological framework

💬 Ex-gay theology, deconstruction, inherited belief systems and what it means to truly be free

Ciarra's closing message will stay with you: What does a gentle God look like — and what does that God offer us?

This episode is for anyone who has ever felt like their faith and their identity couldn't coexist. You can be both.

🌱 FOLLOW CIARRA JONES:

Instagram & TikTok: @TheGardeningTheologianPodcast: The Community Garden Podcast/Substack: The Gardening Theologian

📥 FREE LGBTQ Healing & Resource Guide — Lauren's full testimony plus every book, podcast and voice that helped her move from shame to freedom:

👉 laurenlanzaretta.com/youcanbeboth

🎵 LISTEN TO LAUREN'S MUSIC:

🍎 Apple Music: Search "Lauren Lanzaretta"

🎧 Spotify: Search "Lauren Lanzaretta"

▶️ YouTube: Search "Lauren Lanzaretta"

📲 FOLLOW LAUREN:

Instagram: @LaurenLanzarettaTikTok: @LaurenLanzaretta

YouTube: Lauren Lanzaretta

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You are not confused. You are not broken. You are not too much. You can be both.

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