You think the titel is a bit much? Maybe you’re right. But wait until you’ve listened to this conversation and reconsider you’re judgement. Ursina and I came to our allotment “like the virgin to a child” as the saying goes in German: the garden happened without our “doing”, it simply showed up. Effortlessly. We find so many analogies between the garden, gardening and life – take weeding for example: backbreaking work, hours of picking the tiniest roots, but if you don’t do it thoroughly, it’s useless. Ain’t it the same with our painbodies? Our conditioning? You need to look at their roots and get them out, log in many hours and try not to get obsessed, otherwise you end up following the ohsoconvincing stories of fear aka painbody aka BULLSHIT.