Episode 23 of What the REF looks back at the recent ARMA Conference and the team’s take on various sessions there on the Research Excellence Framework. Gemma, Ola, and James discuss uncertainty around REF 2029, proposals to broaden what counts as research outputs, and gaps between policy language and what actually happens in institutions. They also dig into some of the bigger critiques of the REF — from Stefan Collini’s call to scrap it altogether, to counter-arguments that stress the need for accountability and a fair way of distributing research funding. Along the way, they share reflections from ARMA workshops, swap insights from creativity-focused university events, and dive into some REF folklore.

Our hosts are all members of the Hidden REF committee based at the universities of Southampton and Bristol: Gemma Derrick – a self-confessed REF junkie – Ola Thomson, and James Baker.Our producer is Ben Thomas.

Find out more about the HiddenREF campaign at Hidden-REF.org

'What the REF' is made possible by the Embedding Trust in Evaluation (E-TIE) research grant from Research England.

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WTreF is co-produced by Simon Hettrick, Gemma Derrick, James Baker and Ben Thomas. Video and Sound production by Ben Thomas.

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