This episode features the incredible, and incredibly real, Jenny Pacanowski, founder/director of Women Veterans Empowered and Thriving, in a conversation that explores moving beyond organizations that serve as trauma-swaps, the challenge of incorporating ritual into collective spaces, and much more. After singing the praises of Jenny’s ever-evolving, holistic approach to community-building, Joy and Sarah discuss art as a container for complex reality, the facade of “apolitical” organizations, and preferable ways to acknowledge vets on Veterans Day -- featuring appearances by some basic Howard Zinn quotes and, as per usual, weird accents.Featured poetry is “Combat Dick” by Jenny Pacanowski. Featured music is “Try Not to Be a Dick” and “Smoke Break” by Joy Damiani (released under Emily Yates).FOLLOW JENNYhttps://www.womenveteransempowered.org/https://www.jennywarriorpoet.com/