What does the godfather of the global sustainability movement think is coming next?

John Elkington has been working at the intersection of business, environment, and society for over 50 years. He coined the Triple Bottom Line. He wrote the Green Consumer Guide. He conceived the Green Swan. He has advised governments, corporations, and movements across the world. And after all of that — after five decades of watching the system from the inside — he is, unexpectedly, more optimistic than he has been in a very long time.

In this conversation with Sara, John doesn't pull his punches. He talks about capitalism not surviving more than a decade or two in its current form. About the UN becoming obsolete. About democracy being under existential threat. About a major financial crash coming. About the very real possibility of nuclear weapons being used.

And yet — through all of it — he keeps returning to one conviction: the golden age of sustainability hasn't happened yet. It's still ahead of us. And the people alive today will be part of building it.

This is a conversation for anyone who has ever wondered whether the people who have worked longest in this field still believe change is possible. John's answer, at 76, with a seven-year-old grandson, is a clear and considered yes.

In this episode:

• The origin of the Triple Bottom Line — and why John chose "profit" over "prosperity" deliberately
• Why the TBL Venn diagram was never John's idea — and how he would have mapped it differently
• Why capitalism cannot survive more than a decade or two in its current form — and what comes next
• China, the Global South, and the new geopolitical order taking shape around us
• Why the UN will likely disappear in the next 10-15 years — and what needs to replace it
• The Green Swan: exponential solutions for exponential problems
• Why green consumers alone will never drive systemic change — and what actually will
• Intergenerational working: why older generations can't just hand this to young people
• Where John finds hope — and why he envies the younger generation

About John Elkington:
John Elkington is one of the world's most influential voices in sustainability. Often described as the godfather of the global sustainability movement, he coined the Triple Bottom Line in 1994 and has spent over 50 years advising businesses, governments, and civil society organisations. He is the author of more than 20 books, including Green Swans and The Green Consumer Guide. He is co-founder of Volans and SustainAbility, and continues to work at the frontier of systems change, business innovation, and regenerative futures.