It is easy to see our dominant organizational structure of teams divided by roles as natural. But Jon Smart, author of the book Sooner, Safer, Happier, points out that this goes against 1.9 million years of evolution. In this podcast Jon and Jeffrey discuss the link between the outcomes we’re getting and how we organize, and thus how changing our organization can change incentives, which in turn shape behaviors to get us better outcomes. Recorded live at DevOps Enterprise Summit 2022 in Las Vegas. SHOW LINKS:- LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jonathansmart/- https://soonersaferhappier.com- Dr Ron Westrum: A typology of organisational cultures: https://qualitysafety.bmj.com/content/qhc/13/suppl_2/ii22.full.pdf- NUMMI : This American Life: https://www.thisamericanlife.org/403/nummi-2010